Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Gerdk on April 25, 2015, 05:40:24 PM

Title: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on April 25, 2015, 05:40:24 PM
Violets in different colours are at their best now

Gerd

1.Viola reichenbachiana - Viola canina x V. uliginosa from Sweden
Viola jaubertiana - originally from Mallorca
3. Viola sororia Rubra - North America
4. Viola canadensis - North America
5. Viola canina alba - from Sweden
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on April 25, 2015, 05:46:10 PM
the rest

Gerd

1. Viola chelmea - the dark flowering variant from Taygetos/(Greece
2. Viola pachyrhiza - from Iran
3. Viola palmensis - a pansy type from La Palma/Canary Islands
4. Viola rubella - a shrubby violet from Chile
5. Viola xanthopetala - from the Ussuri Region/Russian Far East
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: David Nicholson on April 25, 2015, 06:28:31 PM
You have a lovely collection Gerd. Apart from hundreds of hybrids they do not seem to be freely available in the UK, did you grow many of yours from seed?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Tim Ingram on April 25, 2015, 06:56:30 PM
Beautiful range of plants Gerd - what a wonderful genus Viola is and it is so nice to see the species compared from across the world. Having got so excited by the extraordinary rosulate species in S. America (and failed completely in growing them), I am now fascinated by V. rubella which I haven't heard of before. The Iranian V. pachyrhiza is also intriguing; Martin and Anna Liisa Sheader showed V. spathulata at the Exeter AGS Show recently, which looks like a more condensed version of this.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on April 25, 2015, 07:32:56 PM
Very nice, Gerd!

How big is your collection?

The rubella, is it difficult to grow?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Robert on April 25, 2015, 09:55:28 PM
Gerd,

Very beautiful violets.  8)  !

Thank you so much for sharing the photographs.

Do the dryland Western U.S. violets do as well for you?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on April 27, 2015, 06:50:28 AM
Thank you alltogether for kind replies!

You have a lovely collection Gerd. Apart from hundreds of hybrids they do not seem to be freely available in the UK, did you grow many of yours from seed?

David, you are welcome. If possible I collect seeds from my own plants and distribute them - not as much as I would like to do because of a lack of time.
According their exploding capsules seed gathering from violets is a tricky business.

Beautiful range of plants Gerd - what a wonderful genus Viola is and it is so nice to see the species compared from across the world. Having got so excited by the extraordinary rosulate species in S. America (and failed completely in growing them), I am now fascinated by V. rubella which I haven't heard of before. The Iranian V. pachyrhiza is also intriguing; Martin and Anna Liisa Sheader showed V. spathulata at the Exeter AGS Show recently, which looks like a more condensed version of this.

Tim, I gave up (and failed also) to cultivate the rosulate S. American species - the shrubby violets of the section Leptidium
- Viola rubella and V. portalesia are much easier to handle although need the protection of an alpine house in our climate.

Very nice, Gerd!

How big is your collection?

The rubella, is it difficult to grow?

-  difficult to tell - maybe medium sized (?). According Viola rubella please see above!

Gerd,

Very beautiful violets.  8)  !

Thank you so much for sharing the photographs.

Do the dryland Western U.S. violets do as well for you?

Robert, you are welcome.
The Western U.S. species do well under cover but always elongate too much because of a lack of sunshine
during my recent conditions - some years ago when my greenhouse was situated in a better situation they
look better. Outside cultivation without protection against excess moisture failed several times.

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Anne Repnow on April 30, 2015, 05:14:40 PM
Beautiful violets, Gerd!
In my garden Viola sororia 'Priceana' and 'Immaculata' increase so enormously that I have to treat them as a weed...
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 05, 2015, 08:49:38 PM
Lacking flowering violets worth a picture in my garden at the moment, I'll show some from Argentina Nov. 2013.

Starting with an ordinary looking one; this is probably Viola maculata. We did see many yellow ones like this but I am not sure they were all the same species or not.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 05, 2015, 09:12:23 PM
A few more of the yellow one - or maybe some are another species like V. magellanica or reichii. They look very similar but are found in different habitats.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on May 06, 2015, 06:08:06 AM
Hoy,
Thank you for the pics of violets of my favoured South  American section (Chilenium).
All of them are not too difficult in cultivation - but in the greenhouse here.

Was your botanical guide able to differentiate the species found? - I'am not!

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 06, 2015, 02:44:26 PM
A pleasure, Gerd!

Some clones of these yellow violets should be possible to grow outside. I found plants high up in the mountain with snow in winter  and summer rain. Should have been there in the right time to collect some seeds!

Here is one flowering in my garden now. I bought it as V. labradorica purpurea but read that it is a form of canina. Do you know anything about that?

Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Robert on May 06, 2015, 03:05:23 PM


Here is one flowering in my garden now. I bought it as V. labradorica purpurea but read that it is a form of canina. Do you know anything about that?



Trond,

I do not know much about Viola labradorica purpurea other than it seeds and spreads prolifically here in our California garden. It is quite beautiful, however it can be a problem weed in seed pans. In some cases, I do not mind having it fill in until other plants get established. In other cases, it can crowd-out small plants that are trying to get established.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 06, 2015, 06:02:53 PM
Thanks Robert - it does indeed spread around by seed here too. Most of the seeds are produced in cleistogamous (and not showy) flowers later in the summer.

A new round with Argentinian species. This time Viola sacculus a representative of the rosulated ones.

You get an idea of the habitat from the first picture.


Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 06, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
A few other plants from the same general area. Some are rather fit for a rockery!

Adesmia parvifolia
Chlorea cylindrostachys
Gamocarpa selliana
Haplopappus prunelloides
Junellia toninii
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on May 07, 2015, 08:24:08 AM
Trond,
thank you for the new set of pics!

Here is one flowering in my garden now. I bought it as V. labradorica purpurea but read that it is a form of canina. Do you know anything about that?

Viola labradorica purpurea is most probably a purple leaved variant of Viola riviniana - misnamed a long time ago and better should be called Viola riviniana 'Purpurea Group'. The 'real' Viola labradorica is a weaker and less showy plant in the garden and difficult to obtain.

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 07, 2015, 09:20:44 PM
OK, thanks Gerd.

Here is another rosulate viola: Viola volcanica (or is it vulcanica?) We found it several places and it preferred volcanic ash! The first picture shows dead trees where a layer of ash had killed them a few years ago but the violet liked it.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 08, 2015, 06:29:17 PM
Viola escondidaensis
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 08, 2015, 07:39:01 PM
Some more violets ... a Senna arnottiana

and the surroundings with an unhappy inhabitant!

Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on May 08, 2015, 07:47:43 PM
Wow! Big canine teeth! What is it? What was it?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on May 13, 2015, 04:18:48 PM
Some stunning Viola pedata pictures  here :  http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=13121.msg333394#msg333394 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=13121.msg333394#msg333394)   - these from Anne Speigel

 and here too : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=13148.msg333070#msg333070 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=13148.msg333070#msg333070)  from Bobby Ward


 and this one  from Panayoti Kelaidis
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hans J on May 13, 2015, 06:54:55 PM
Wow! Big canine teeth! What is it? What was it?

Maggi ,

it could only be a dog or a Fox ....both have the same formula of theeths
Fox :
I C P M
3 1 4 2
3 1 4 3
Dog:
I C P M
3 1 4 2
3 1 4 3

Hans
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on May 13, 2015, 08:17:10 PM
Ah, thank you Hans - I forgot that you have a close professional knowledge of teeth!!  :) 8)
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hans J on May 13, 2015, 08:34:26 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: ashley on May 13, 2015, 10:04:25 PM
... it could only be a dog or a Fox ....both have the same formula of theeths
Fox :
I C P M
3 1 4 2
3 1 4 3
Dog:
I C P M
3 1 4 2
3 1 4 3
Such w-i-d-e expertise on this forum 8) ;D
Culpeo (Lycalopex culpaeus) maybe?

Wonderful violas Trond.  V. volcanica leaves remind me of pieces of felt cut out with pinking shears.  Does the dense hair protect them from cold/dessication/ultraviolet light?
In the background of your senna photo those trees look like Araucaria araucana.  I didn't realize its range extends into Argentina.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Rick R. on May 14, 2015, 04:40:25 AM
This Minnesota (USA) sand prairie is home to wonderful colony of Viola pedata.  This pic taken on 2 April, in USDA zone 4. The rich brown is last seasons Viola pedata leaves.
[attach=1]

They are not restricted to, but seem to prefer the rim of this shallow, fairly stabilized blow out. vegetation is usually sparse where they grow best.
 [attach=2]           [attach=3]

[attach=4]            [attach=5]
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Rick R. on May 14, 2015, 04:52:08 AM
More pics:
[attach=1]    [attach=2]

      [attach=3]     [attach=4]

  [attach=5]
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Lori S. on May 14, 2015, 05:31:36 AM
So much beauty!  Thanks for posting, Trond and Rick!
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 07:08:05 AM
Wow! Big canine teeth! What is it? What was it?

Sorry Maggi, but I overlooked this one!
You have already got answers - it is a canid but it is several small canids in South America. So culpeo is a possibility.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 07:30:13 AM


Wonderful violas Trond.  V. volcanica leaves remind me of pieces of felt cut out with pinking shears.  Does the dense hair protect them from cold/dessication/ultraviolet light?
In the background of your senna photo those trees look like Araucaria araucana.  I didn't realize its range extends into Argentina.

Thanks Ashley - I'll bring some more when I have time!

Regarding the volcanica I believe the texture of the leaves is camouflage. Other violets were as much exposed but had very different leaves. V. volcanica was very hard to spot until you got used to it. A few others are similar. You will see later ;)

Yes, Monkey Puzzle extends into Argentina and used to cover huge areas along the Chilean border. Now the forests are declining although the lumbering is mostly stopped. Seeds are produced irregulaily and in the open areas where the understory is remoev (grazing etc) the seedlings have problem to establish. The huge seeds are also food for many species including man.
We visited one place with a remnant of the old ancient forest with mature trees and good regeneration.

[attachimg=1]

Many places pine plantations replaced the old Araucaria forests.

[attachimg=2]

Mixed forests - Araucaria and Nothofagus.

[attachimg=3]

A common understory "shrub" is bamboo Chusquea sp.

[attachimg=4]

A lot of young trees in this area.

[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 07:39:27 AM
So much beauty!  Thanks for posting, Trond and Rick!

You are welcome, Lori ;)

Very nice Rick!
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 08:29:13 AM
Here comes a new species: Viola dasyphylla. The colour and markings of the flowers vary a lot.

[attachimg=1]

Promising buds!


[attachimg=2]


[attachimg=3]


[attachimg=4]


[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 08:43:33 AM
Same species.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]


Another inhabitant of the scree: Tristagma nivale.

[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on May 14, 2015, 10:07:19 AM
Thanks to both Ashley and Trond for their Culpeo suggestion -  found this online and it does show impressively large canine teeth

[attachimg=1]
Lycalopex culpaeus
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Robert on May 14, 2015, 02:47:48 PM
Trond,

Your postings are extremely interesting, especially the Araucaria trees. I wonder, are there any pristine, old growth Araucaria forest remaining? What would they be like?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 07:07:07 PM
Thanks to both Ashley and Trond for their Culpeo suggestion -  found this online and it does show impressively large canine teeth

Lycalopex culpaeus

Looks very similar, Maggi!
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 07:50:06 PM
Trond,

Your postings are extremely interesting, especially the Araucaria trees. I wonder, are there any pristine, old growth Araucaria forest remaining? What would they be like?

Thank you, Robert :)

I can't fully answer your question as I do not know how it is in Chile where the main range of Araucaria is.

In Argentina heavy lumbering has reduced the population of the biggest trees. Grazing remove the understorey of shrubs and forbs which makes it difficult for seeds to germinate. What's left is smaller trees in open savannah like vegetation. We visited Moquehue area where one of the last remnants of almost pristine woods occur. It is close to the Chilean border.

Here are a few more pictures (no violets - maybe ithey should be in their own thread)  ;D.

[attachimg=1]

A healthy tree.


[attachimg=2]

Mixed with Nothofagus.


[attachimg=3]

One of the biggest trees we saw - popular destination!

[attachimg=4]

Thick stem ut not very tall.


[attachimg=5]

Grazing area.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 14, 2015, 07:57:08 PM
Last ones ::)

[attachimg=1]

Looks a bit scorched. Maybe a bushfire.


[attachimg=2]

Some years they set plenty of seeds but they rarely germinate in these dry woods.


[attachimg=3]

Scenery


[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: ashley on May 14, 2015, 09:40:19 PM
Thanks Trond; fascinating to see these.  There may even be violas too, if we look hard enough ;) ;D
Yes significant regeneration looks unlikely unless grazing pressure can be reduced.  Are these remaining Argentine populations protected in any way?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Robert on May 16, 2015, 06:05:19 PM
Trond,

I enjoyed the photographs of the Araucaria forest, or at least what remains of one.

I have the same question as Ashley, are any of the Argentine or Chilean populations protected? Maybe someone out there has the answers.

Here in California some of the ecosystems have been so degraded that it is now impossible to know how it might have been 200 years ago. One example is the oak savannah and the river riparian habitats of the central valley of California. Agriculture and other development has destroyed most of it and seriously degraded the rest. The "Hooker" Oak, one of the last great valley oaks, Quercus lobata, is gone, however it was still alive 40 years ago. It grew in Chico, California. Bidwell Park, also in Chico, California, is still there with many large valley oaks. This would be a good outing for me. Bidwell Park is interesting and the plants in the nearby mountains are fantastic.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on May 16, 2015, 10:14:52 PM
While Araucaria are the subject in hand - how about this from Robbie Blackhall-Miles?

"Monkey puzzles: an iconic tree under threat" http://gu.com/p/487d9/stw (http://gu.com/p/487d9/stw)

 plus more on the natural populations in Chile: http://talkingplants.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/chilean-pine-no-puzzle-for-this-monkey.html (http://talkingplants.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/chilean-pine-no-puzzle-for-this-monkey.html)
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: ashley on May 17, 2015, 07:34:30 AM
Thanks Maggi.  More here (http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CFwQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cites.org%2Feng%2Fcop%2F11%2Fprop%2F55.pdf&ei=SUBYVcS7NIPm7gbi14GADw&usg=AFQjCNHI5ZlQLnIfKxGmYzPgx5TdeMzc6A&sig2=-eMbvhX1NEhNgbQC47A2bQ&bvm=bv.93564037,d.ZGU&cad=rja) and here (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/31355/0).
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on May 17, 2015, 01:08:28 PM
Here are

1. Viola pedata - grown in a sunny sandbed - unfortunately there are no flowers although the conditions seems to be right

2. + 3.  Viola spathulata and the closely related Viola pachyrhiza from Iran

Gerd

Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 17, 2015, 09:18:12 PM
Thanks to both Ashley and Trond for their Culpeo suggestion -  found this online and it does show impressively large canine teeth

Lycalopex culpaeus


I think this is a Culpeo and probably the same species as the jaw belongs to.

Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 17, 2015, 09:20:30 PM
Here are

1. Viola pedata - grown in a sunny sandbed - unfortunately there are no flowers although the conditions seems to be right

2. + 3.  Viola spathulata and the closely related Viola pachyrhiza from Iran

Gerd

Very nice, Gerd :)  You certainly have enough sunshine for the V.pedata?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Robert on May 18, 2015, 03:41:19 AM
Gerd,

I like the Viola spathulata. Being from Iran, might it take our California summer heat? or maybe it is from the mountains. Things for me to research.

Thanks for sharing the photographs.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on May 18, 2015, 10:09:15 AM

I think this is a Culpeo and probably the same species as the jaw belongs to.


   Bigger teeth than a Scottish fox - what sort of height wold it be (alive)?
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 18, 2015, 11:14:10 AM
Maggi,

I think it is about as big as a schäfer dog.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on May 18, 2015, 11:19:52 AM
Maggi,

I think it is about as big as a schäfer dog.

 So, taking German Shepherd dog average size - about 35-40 kilos     
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: ashley on May 18, 2015, 11:43:08 AM
So, taking German Shepherd dog average size - about 35-40 kilos

Wikipedia say 5-13.5 kg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpeo), so maybe mid-dog sized.  I've never seen one though. 
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 18, 2015, 11:46:29 AM
I've not seen any alive but the dead one looked as big s a big dog but I didn't measure it!

So maybe a bit smaller than I said.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 18, 2015, 11:51:15 AM
The next Argentinian violet is Viola coronaria, maybe the showiest one we saw. I've also included some of the companion plants.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

The ridge where they grow


[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

Valeriana moyanoi
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 18, 2015, 11:55:21 AM
[attachimg=1]

Calandrinia skottsbergii


[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

Montiopsis gayana


[attachimg=4]

Ourisia fragrans


[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: ashley on May 18, 2015, 12:04:24 PM
Spectacular V. coronifera Trond, living up to its name.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on May 18, 2015, 12:23:22 PM
Spectacular V. coronifera Trond, living up to its name.

--- indeed - the most beautiful of the andiniums. What a pity that cultivation seems soooo difficult!

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on May 18, 2015, 12:56:49 PM
Gerd,

I like the Viola spathulata. Being from Iran, might it take our California summer heat? or maybe it is from the mountains. Things for me to research.

Thanks for sharing the photographs.

You are welcome!
Viola spathulata comes from the Elburz Mountains - Northern Iran (about 2000 m), growing in shady positions. I believe it will be able to resist heat but I fear not prolonged drought because being more or less evergreen it lacks the adaptions to dry periods as Viola trinervata has for instance.

Gerd

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on May 20, 2015, 01:16:01 PM
Here is another South American violet with yellow flowers - member of Section Chilenium

Viola magellanica - originally from Perito Moreno, Argentina

and Viola cornuta - it seems not the real wild growing species but very near to that and seeding around

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 20, 2015, 08:41:54 PM
Both are very nice, Gerd.

V magellanica looks very similar to those we found in Argentina but which weren't that species!
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on May 21, 2015, 09:45:38 AM
Thank you Trond!
I took the species mentioned above for magellanica because of its origin and it is mentioned for the region.
Vv. reichei, maculata, magellanica are a tricky matter, until today I had no paper with a  suitable key to
differentiate between eachother.

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Hoy on May 21, 2015, 10:02:49 AM
Gerd, I don't say you are wrong! Because I don't know. The names I used were provided by others ;) And from pictures I've seen they look very similar.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on July 21, 2015, 10:44:27 AM
Reposting from the Southern Hemisphere thread s requested by Gerd K

The violet is also lovely. What kind is it? It looks a lot like one of our native violets, Viola pedata, bird's foot violet, a sand-loving plant.

Gabriel,
Sorry for this late reply, but (suspecting that your pics were made near to you) I am interested in the conditions in which Viola pedata occurs.
Does it experience a longer periode of dryness in fall?
I once read (forgot where) that a hot and dry periode is essential for successful cultivation of this tricky species because the leaves should wilt at this time.
Another question is about hardiness. What are the minima in winter in your region and is there a permanent snow cover normally?

Gerd


Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gabriel B on July 25, 2015, 04:35:17 AM
Thanks for posting this here, Maggi, and thanks for sending me a message, Gerd, since I didn't notice your reply.


I read through the earlier posts. Interestingly enough, I visited Viola pedata in the same place where Rick R did, and met him there in late April. Very nice to see his later photos of the violets in full bloom.


Gerd, the place that we visited, Grey Cloud Dunes (on the south bank of the Mississippi southeast of Saint Paul, Minnesota) has dunes of pure sand. That is what the violets were growing in. There may have been something else under the sand, but I didn't dig to find out.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

The climate here is warm summer and freezing winter. The lowest temperature each winter is typically around -20 F (-29 C), and the average January temperature is well below freezing. So, if your Viola pedata is from Minnesota, it should be completely hardy in Germany.

Rainfall and snowfall in Minnesota is pretty unpredictable; some summers are almost rainless, some winters have very little snow cover. This year has had unusually regular rainfall. However, I think fall (autumn) tends to be pretty dry. Because of the dryness, the Minnesota Daffodil Society recommends watering daffodils in fall.

I don't think Viola pedata has a summer dormancy, if that's what you mean. As far as I know, it keeps its leaves from spring to winter frost.

I wonder what is preventing your bird's foot violets from blooming. You are already growing them in sand, which is good. I've heard they like acidic soil too. Perhaps they would benefit from fertilization. Fertilizing now might encourage them to make flowerbuds for next spring.

I just planted a bird's foot violet, and it looks a little sad: yellowed with purple spots (I think). I'll experiment by watering with magnesium sulfate, iron sulfate, and sprinkling on a slow-release 15-15-15 fertilizer, the same things I fertilize my lingonberries, blueberries, and azaleas with. If any of these have an effect, I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on July 26, 2015, 04:15:32 PM
Thanks for posting this here, Maggi, and thanks for sending me a message, Gerd, since I didn't notice your reply.


I read through the earlier posts. Interestingly enough, I visited Viola pedata in the same place where Rick R did, and met him there in late April. Very nice to see his later photos of the violets in full bloom.


Gerd, the place that we visited, Grey Cloud Dunes (on the south bank of the Mississippi southeast of Saint Paul, Minnesota) has dunes of pure sand. That is what the violets were growing in. There may have been something else under the sand, but I didn't dig to find out.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

The climate here is warm summer and freezing winter. The lowest temperature each winter is typically around -20 F (-29 C), and the average January temperature is well below freezing. So, if your Viola pedata is from Minnesota, it should be completely hardy in Germany.

Rainfall and snowfall in Minnesota is pretty unpredictable; some summers are almost rainless, some winters have very little snow cover. This year has had unusually regular rainfall. However, I think fall (autumn) tends to be pretty dry. Because of the dryness, the Minnesota Daffodil Society recommends watering daffodils in fall.

I don't think Viola pedata has a summer dormancy, if that's what you mean. As far as I know, it keeps its leaves from spring to winter frost.

I wonder what is preventing your bird's foot violets from blooming. You are already growing them in sand, which is good. I've heard they like acidic soil too. Perhaps they would benefit from fertilization. Fertilizing now might encourage them to make flowerbuds for next spring.

I just planted a bird's foot violet, and it looks a little sad: yellowed with purple spots (I think). I'll experiment by watering with magnesium sulfate, iron sulfate, and sprinkling on a slow-release 15-15-15 fertilizer, the same things I fertilize my lingonberries, blueberries, and azaleas with. If any of these have an effect, I'll let you know.

Gabriel,
Thank you very much for this detailed reply. Following your advice I'll fertilize my plants now in order to receive some flowers next spring.
Nevertheless I have some problems to catch why a plant which prefers a poor sandy soil needs additional feeding in cultivation, although I remember a superb flowering potted plant acquired in the Netherlands which was obviously well fed.
Maybe there is somebody here who will be able to solve this riddle.

GHerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gabriel B on July 26, 2015, 08:55:06 PM
Gerd, it is indeed quite puzzling, and it might be the wrong solution. You can find out by how the plant responds. If it sends out new leaves and the leaf color changes to darker green, a healthy color, then that's a good sign. If not, there might be another answer.

I looked at the weather of Duesseldorf and compared it with Minneapolis. Our summers are somewhat wetter and warmer (daily high of 29 C in July and 102 mm precipitation, compared with 24 C and 75 mm), winters are colder and much drier (daily high of -5 in January and 23 mm precipitation, compared with 6 C and 67 mm). It's possible that the plant wants colder winters, less winter rainfall, more summer rainfall, or hotter summers. A bunch of possibilities. The only one that can be tested is rainfall.

However, Viola pedata lives in a wide area (see this map (http://bonap.net/MapGallery/County/Viola%20pedata.png)), with a wide range of climates, and it could be that your form of the species comes from a different place with a different climate from Minneapolis. For instance, the Ozarks (to the south in Missouri and Arkansas) have a lot of Viola pedata along roadsides, and there the summers are hotter and winters warmer and wetter.

I guess I have two thoughts: the leaves should be darker green, and the plant should be putting on new growth and gathering energy in the summer, and the leaves should die back in the winter. Lack of healthy summer leaf growth and lack of dormancy could explain why the plant doesn't bloom in the spring. Just theorizing, however. I'm still trying to fix my Viola pedata.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on July 27, 2015, 01:39:58 PM
Gabriel,
I don' believe that fertilizing would be the wrong solution for having flowers. Coming back to the plant acquired in the Netherlands - it grew in pure peat with some rice husks and the soil had a lot of pellets which seems to contain an encapsulated controlled release fertilizer. The plant itself was free flowering and had a lot of the so called crowns (a divided rootstock), maybe it was a little bit overfed. I didn't plant it in a sand bed and lost it soon.
 
But it seems that some tests with different fertilizing regimes can't be that bad.

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gabriel B on July 28, 2015, 02:50:55 AM
Gerd, sounds like the grower was using the wrong growing medium. From what I've seen and read, Viola pedata prefers soils without any organic matter. No wonder the plant died. Similar to a grower who grew lavender in peat. I suppose it works if the plants are watered very infrequently.

I think my plant might not make it either, because I planted it in loam, which is staying very wet this year. One of these days I'll make a sand bed and plant some bird's foot violet seeds there, and perhaps grow the violet along with harebells, pasqueflowers, and penstemons.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 28, 2015, 03:31:14 AM
.... One of these days I'll make a sand bed and plant some bird's foot violet seeds there, and perhaps grow the violet along with harebells, pasqueflowers, and penstemons.
Hi Gabriel,
when would you sow the seeds?
I have a sand bed and might try it (if I can get seed of the true thing!)
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gabriel B on July 28, 2015, 06:35:33 AM
Fermi, the seed has to be kept moist and needs a cold treatment, so you could sow in autumn and hope the winter is cold enough, or stick the seed in the refrigerator and plant in spring. Seed typically ripens in June up here, which would be winter for you. I wonder if it would adjust well to traveling across hemispheres, or if you could find a source down there.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on January 10, 2021, 08:16:50 PM
Useful sheet to help in identifying  violas : https://bsbi.org/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/dinkymoira-Violets.pdf

Commissioned by Rebecca Wheeler for the  Botanical Society  of Britain and Ireland ( BSBI)  and written by  Moira O'Donnel
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on January 11, 2021, 09:22:53 AM
Useful sheet to help in identifying  violas : https://bsbi.org/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/dinkymoira-Violets.pdf

Commissioned by Rebecca Wheeler for the  Botanical Society  of Britain and Ireland ( BSBI)  and written by  Moira O'Donnel

Useful indeed - but I miss the Latin names (for the sake of clarity)

sweet violet            =    Viola odorata
hairy violet             =    Viola hirta
e<rly dog violet      =   Viola reichenbachiana
common dog violet  =   Viola riviniana

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: ashley on January 11, 2021, 12:06:00 PM
Thanks Gerd.  Agreed that it's a useful aid to ID but very odd that scientific names were omitted.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on February 28, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
Still before Viola odorata its relative
Viola adriatica from Croatia built some flowers

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gail on March 28, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
My purple lawn, which has now more Viola odorata than grass;
[attachimg=1]
We had a bit of sunshine yesterday and the honey bees were out, really enjoying the violets, and the scent was fantastic!
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: ashley on March 28, 2021, 11:21:30 AM
How beautiful Gail, and lovely Roman hyacinths too.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gabriela on March 28, 2021, 10:24:56 PM
My purple lawn, which has now more Viola odorata than grass;
We had a bit of sunshine yesterday and the honey bees were out, really enjoying the violets, and the scent was fantastic!

The best type of 'lawn' Gail! So beautiful and also good for the bees.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Gerdk on April 23, 2021, 04:55:39 PM
Viola walteri does well in a alpine house. Plants in the garden look a little bit unhappy.
With thanks to Véronique!

Gerd
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Maggi Young on December 29, 2022, 10:24:35 AM
A new viola, named for Marcela Ferreyra -  who writes:
 "Today is a very happy day in my life as I have been gifted a Viola!!!!. So besides Chocolina ( my little dog!) I have another bb named Viola marcelaferreyrae.
    Many thanks Marcela Nicola for your huge show of love and generosity!!!. I love Rosuladas and having a species with my name is like a dream.
    I dedicate this to my father who was my first example of a Naturalist marking my life forever."
    You can download the publication from this link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l18Ccqx52kbtgYlLa57f8B4pxUXoDR0X/view?fbclid=IwAR2fdXaLF2Hmf-BSsbURvMuXFPq6Us8xO6dB4htXe8GfAooAlO-6HXWp6W8)

[attachimg=1]

And some other  viola papers with John M Watson and Ana Flores  included as authors :

Viola ornata and Viola longibracteolata (Violaceae, subgen. Neoandinium), two rare, new rosulate species from southern Peru - https://www.biotaxa.org/Phytotaxa/article/view/phytotaxa.571.1.4       publ. 1-11-22

A new Viola (Violaceae) from the Argentinian Andes -  Viola beatii      Willdenowia 2019
core.ac.uk/download/pdf/225124850.pdf

A Revised Phylogenetic Classification for Viola (Violaceae)
https://www.mdpi.com/2223-7747/11/17/2224
Viola marcelaferreyrae.
Title: Re: Violets / Violas
Post by: Claire Cockcroft on December 29, 2022, 05:51:37 PM
The honor is so fitting, given Marcela's love of the flora of her country and the enthusiasm she shares with everyone who travels with her.

...Claire
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