Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Corrado & Rina on January 20, 2015, 09:16:59 PM
-
Dear all,
Is anyone growing Narcissus viridiflorus and knows where to find some bulbs and growing instructions?
Regards
Corrado
-
I don't know a source, but there are very good instructions for flowering it here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8183.0;topicseen (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8183.0;topicseen)
-
What soil temperatures are being aimed at here?
-
I get seed from the seed exchanges when it is on the lists. I did get three bulbs a few years ago but through the kindness of the Gibraltar Botanic Gardens. I don't know of a commercial source. Cultivation? I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve, I'm afraid but a Summer dormancy seems to be important. I kept watering my bulbs because the leaves were still green and they didn't die down until late Summer. The plants didn't re-appear in the (UK) Autumn. Seed freshness also seems to be important - dehisc and sow.
Jack
-
I grow it in an 8" pot outside and it flowers and multiplies there. My single clone rarely produces seed, but I have some three year old seedlings from another source that may flower this year, so crossing may increase my seed production? I'll tip my pots out next month and see what I have. I have promised another forumist a couple of bulbs but may have more spare? Bill Dijk grows it in quantity, and at least three UK nurseries have advertised bulbs in the past. Hot dry summers are needed, but bulbs then need to be kept frost free over winter. No problem here in Auckland.
-
Kurt Vickery often lists seed - it is where my plants originate.
-
Here's my pot flowering 23/5/14.
-
I grow it in an 8" pot outside and it flowers and multiplies there. My single clone rarely produces seed, but I have some three year old seedlings from another source that may flower this year, so crossing may increase my seed production? I'll tip my pots out next month and see what I have. I have promised another forumist a couple of bulbs but may have more spare? Bill Dijk grows it in quantity, and at least three UK nurseries have advertised bulbs in the past. Hot dry summers are needed, but bulbs then need to be kept frost free over winter. No problem here in Auckland.
Dear Anthony,
If you could spare a couple of bulbs it would be amazing .... I do not even know what to send you back that has the same value. :) I do not know Bill Dijk ....
Corrado
-
Bill is on the Forum as Tecophilaea King. He has a nursery near Tauranga, New Zealand. I'll see what falls out of the pot in February
-
Corrado, I may have one or two 3-year old bulbs for you when I repot next summer/autumn. If you drop me a PM by then I'll see what I may have for you.
Cheers, Hans
-
Lovely plant Anthony, one for my wish list
-
Hi Anthony I recieved the bulbs today and have potted them up. Thanks very much, john.
-
My pleasure. It will be interesting to see how they behave.
-
Yes it will, how long does it usually take a plant to adjust from one hemisphere to another?
-
Probably just one season. With the spring-flowerers anyway.
-
Cheers anne, how should I treat it in the meantime, I potted it up and gave it a water, should I leave the pot to go dry or give more water later? by the way anne another one of the beautiful narcissus I bought off you last back end, Narcissus Varduliensis will be flowering soon, i'm looking forward to seeing it flower, I know I won't be disappointed.
-
With the spring flowerers, I plant them as normal, keep damp and when they appear keep them growing as long as poss by shading when it's hot. After the first dormancy they should wake up at the right time for us. Not sure this applies to the autumn flowerers though. Has anyone else any experience with them?
-
Bill is on the Forum as Tecophilaea King. He has a nursery near Tauranga, New Zealand. I'll see what falls out of the pot in February
Thanks a lot Anthony!!!! Arrived and looking really good!!!! What a pleasant surprise.
-
Dear Anthony, Anne,
What compost do you use for N. viridiflorus in Yorshire? and plastic or clay pot?
Regards
Corrado
-
Can't get JI composts in Auckland, so I use an organic compost and mix in the same volume of 5mm gravel, some coarse sand, perlite and crushed oyster shell.
-
Can't get JI composts in Auckland, so I use an organic compost and mix in the same volume of 5mm gravel, some coarse sand, perlite and crushed oyster shell.
After a dry rest of several weeks in dry cork granules, i moved the bulbs to the pot as soon as they started showing some growth .... here they are:
[attach=1]
and
[attach=2]
What do you think? Is that how they are supposed to behave?
Thanks a lot Anthony!
Best,
Corrado
-
Yours are more or less at the same stage as mine. This is a flower spike and should open before the weekend is out. 8)
-
My first flower of the season.
-
Well done Anthony but I still think it's the ugliest Daff ever :o
-
Lovely flowers Anthony, looking forward to seeing mine in flower, beauty is in the eye of the beholder David ;D
-
My first flower of the season.
Beautiful Anthony! It is also as scented as the literature say?
-
Beautiful Anthony! It is also as scented as the literature say?
Yes, and I regard it as my favourite daffodil. 8)
-
Lovely flowers Anthony, looking forward to seeing mine in flower, beauty is in the eye of the beholder David ;D
True John, so very true! ;D
-
Good man, now to more important things did you see any of the tour de Yorkshire last weekend?
-
Saw it all (on the box)
-
Great wasn't it, did you see any places you knew?
-
Yes, I knew all of it and been to many parts of it many times.
-
At least they haven't lost track of their routes in that part of the world, so to speak. ;)
-
Tour de Yorkshire was great - (again seen on TV , like David) - and now the Giro d'Italia has started - FAB!!
One of the things I like best about watching these fantastic cycle raves on TV is is the chance to see the helicopter shots of places we recognise as the home of great plants!
-
Good man, now to more important things did you see any of the tour de Yorkshire last weekend?
Saw the second and third day. I have some shots from the second day. Very enjoyable, everybody, including security seemed to have fun.
-
Here's my pot flowering 23/5/14.
Two quick questions:
1) Do you keep them quite wet before flowering and flowering time? What is the watering regime?
2) Do you keep them under glass in full sun, dapple shade or ....?
Thank you!
Best,
Corrado
-
The pots are kept outside in full sun and get wet when it rains. During the summer I let the pots of narcissi dry out and get baked. This year I tipped the big pot out to check sizes and how many I had, and then (paper) bagged them and stored them dry in the garage until the end of March. I start watering at the beginning of April (October in the northern hemisphere). The compost is very gritty, so doesn't get waterlogged, but the grow very long and bulk up well, so do need watering. I cage them at bulb fly time. The secret to flowering appears to be a hot summer.
-
Hi Anthony I checked my pot today and a couple of shoot have appeared, they must still be on New Zealand time ;D
-
To get them on to northern hemisphere time you need to grow them. They were dormant and will wake in April/May as they don't know they've crossed the equator, so you'll get them flowering this month. The Kiwis store imported daff bulbs and sell them now, six months after they should be sold, expecting them to do well. They don't. Curious how the florists are full of cut daffs and tulips now! ::)
-
I thought you couldn't bring any plants into New Zealand unless it was seed, or do commercial growers have a license to do so?
-
To get them on to northern hemisphere time you need to grow them. They were dormant and will wake in April/May as they don't know they've crossed the equator, so you'll get them flowering this month. The Kiwis store imported daff bulbs and sell them now, six months after they should be sold, expecting them to do well. They don't. Curious how the florists are full of cut daffs and tulips now! ::)
I've been told recently that a lot of those flowers here (Australia) are now being imported as bulbs from Brazil! Seems a bit strange to me as they should be in sync with us ??? But perhaps they've been stored to flower now to be sent to the Northerm Hemisphere?
cheers
fermi
-
I thought you couldn't bring any plants into New Zealand unless it was seed, or do commercial growers have a license to do so?
You can bring bulbs into New Zealand from certified sources, if you have the money to do all the work involved. Alas, us amateurs have to rely on seed.
-
Hi Anthony thanks for clearing that up, it seems a waste though after going to all that trouble they are not been planted at the proper time and they are failing to grow properly.
-
The pots are kept outside in full sun and get wet when it rains. During the summer I let the pots of narcissi dry out and get baked. This year I tipped the big pot out to check sizes and how many I had, and then (paper) bagged them and stored them dry in the garage until the end of March. I start watering at the beginning of April (October in the northern hemisphere). The compost is very gritty, so doesn't get waterlogged, but the grow very long and bulk up well, so do need watering. I cage them at bulb fly time. The secret to flowering appears to be a hot summer.
My bulbs keep throwing out new shoots but the existing shoot in the previous photograph is actually yellowing rather than opening .... picture here:
[attach=1]
What do you think Anthony?
Best
Corrado
-
Where are they being kept? In the UK they need to be grown in the greenhouse, but May should not be too cool. Your first pic indicated a flower bud two or three days before opening, so unless something has gone wrong, they should have opened. Has the pot dried out at all? Had they sprouted before you planted them? This is my pot today. We have had torrential rain this week and temperatures ranging from 21ēC down to about 13ēC. These are the same bulbs I sent you and were stored in the garage in a paper bag until I planted them in April. The garage temps get quite high in summer.
-
Where are they being kept? In the UK they need to be grown in the greenhouse, but May should not be too cool. Your first pic indicated a flower bud two or three days before opening, so unless something has gone wrong, they should have opened. Has the pot dried out at all? Had they sprouted before you planted them? This is my pot today. We have had torrential rain this week and temperatures ranging from 21ēC down to about 13ēC. These are the same bulbs I sent you and were stored in the garage in a paper bag until I planted them in April. The garage temps get quite high in summer.
Kept "under glass". The temperature outside has been oscillating 4C to 18.5C. That particular sprout had started before planting. They are well watered. The bulbs are producing several new shoots. That particular flower bud did not open yet and the sheath started going yellow as in the picture ....
What do you think?
Corrado
-
Each bulb produces one shoot which will be either a flower stalk or a single leaf, unless the bulb has double up, in which case you'll get two. Keep an eye on the flower bud. Make sure the compost is free draining.
-
Each bulb produces one shoot which will be either a flower stalk or a single leaf, unless the bulb has double up, in which case you'll get two. Keep an eye on the flower bud. Make sure the compost is free draining.
It is free draining but holds a bit of moisture .... organic content is <25% .... should I bring it down to even less?
Best,
Corrado
-
I wouldn't have it any less. Mine is probably 50% organic. Although we have had some serious rain, it was still 18ēC it 7.30 this evening. The trick is to keep them growing as long as possible, so plenty of light, but think "Mediterranean winter", so not too hot for the next few months to try and bring them over to northern hemisphere timing. The leaf/flower stalk keeps elongating, and will produce a bend so it lays flat. I'm sure there will be other people on the Forum with more experience of this that I have.
-
Hi Anthony is has been a funny may weather wise so far, last night they were talking frost on the weather forecast, this close to mid summers day. All in all its been a colder spring than last year.
-
Hi Anthony is has been a funny may weather wise so far, last night they were talking frost on the weather forecast, this close to mid summers day. All in all its been a colder spring than last year.
Couldn't agree more, we had oscillations of nocturnal minimum temperatures in random order between -5C and 12C .... quite damaging for several plants.
-
Oscillations! That's a great word, I was looking in my greenhouse the other day and was thinking how full it was, it was nearly empty this time last year.
-
Oscillations! That's a great word, I was looking in my greenhouse the other day and was thinking how full it was, it was nearly empty this time last year.
Sorry, slipped into work jargon .... :)
-
From the bulbs sent to me by Anthony two have grown and flowered, it's a loverly little flower, tiny trumpet and a great scent.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8770/17983777519_107a6ce547_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tpayvD)image (https://flic.kr/p/tpayvD) by John Stephen Lavin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126223196@N05/), on Flickr
-
That's brilliant. Looks like another shoot appearing from the right hand bulb. Mine are now being treated to temperatures that meant the cars were frosted over this morning.
-
Is this species frost hardy Anthony?
-
No. We get the odd ground frost, but only out in the open, and nothing that actually penetrates the ground. I have snapdragons, alyssum, lobelia, geraniums (zonal pelargoniums), Epidendrum ibaguense, pansies, primulas and hibiscus as winter flowering plants here. Two nights of frost on the car windscreens hasn't produced any frosted plants.
-
Mine are in bud, Anthony.
-
Mine are in bud, Anthony.
Excellent news. Here's my pot today. Looks as if the frost did get to those outermost flowers. Need to take it off the patio table.
-
Mine are in bud, Anthony.
... and now flowering!
-
Here is an updated picture of my plants, the two stems now have two flowers apiece. Anthony you were right there is another flower stem growing, well spotted.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/508/18170350258_7f1e6160f9.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tFDN61)image (https://flic.kr/p/tFDN61) by John Stephen Lavin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126223196@N05/), on Flickr
-
Also mine has finally flowered:
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
-
Well done corradoerina, great little flowers aren't they.
-
Spectacular, I really like their strange grace .... particularly the scent.
Thanks Anthony!
Corrado
-
It does have a strong scent doesn't it.
-
It does have a strong scent doesn't it.
Brought it to the unheated living room to protect it from the impossible weather (and to enjoy it as much as possible) .... you can imagine!
-
Nice one
-
Subtle, delightful scent, and small - only 12cms tall at flowering.
-
Great little narcissus isn't it Ralph?
-
That's amazing. Three sets of Narcissus viridiflorus flowering at the wrong time of year in the northern hemisphere. Now the hard work starts. Mine will continue to grow - up to a metre with a kink that make the stem grow horizontal - throughout the winter and will be caged at bulb fly time, finally dying down mid summer, when they get a good baking.
-
Will we need to do that here as well Anthony?
-
Just keep them growing as long as you can, then dry out when they die down. I've never tried to readjust plants to northern hemisphere seasons, so will leave it to others to suggest how. They are possibly out there reading this post but choosing to remain silent.
-
If they are, I hope they will speak up! Can't find anything on Google.
-
The advice is much the same whichever direction the bulbs - or seed - have travelled, I think. Get them growing -so for bulbs, plant them, water them a bit - keep them growing as long as possible and realise that they may grow and flower "out of synch" for a couple of years before their internal clock resets.
This has been discussed previously in the forum..... here are a few quotes from various forumists over the years : ;
on Gethylllis :
If sent from SA in our autumn the bulbs will have only just entered dormancy and would therefore not start to grow until after they have had a warm dry period for a few months - they need this physiological trigger. If it were me I would keep them bone dry until our autumn to let our summer do the job (keeping them dormant for a full year will not harm them - bulbs often do this in nature anyway in drought years). This has worked for me with imported Daubenya - but I lost a few to rot before I got it right. There is always a temptation to give them a bit of moisture and this must be resisted until the bulbs are ready for it.
on Massonia
"July 18
I actually sowed mine today! I was following advice from Darren (Sleep) who gave a talk at our group last year on South African bulbs - his results speak for themselves.
I had been keeping my seeds in the refrigerator over the summer and by the time of his talk last September he thought I was too late, so should keep them in the refrigerator over the winter/spring and so them about.......now.
I hope I got that correct Darren ;) , I should have taken written notes"
Darren's reply :
"Should work fine Peter.
September would be OK actually, but not if the seed had spent summer in the fridge as most cape bulb seed needs a warm summer prior to first watering and cooler temps triggering germination in autumn.
Personally I store all my (winter growing) bulb seed at room temperature and only sow from late july until late september. Any bulb seed arriving outside this period stays at room temp until the following late summer/autumn. I've currently got a lot of seed purchased from Summerfield and Silverhill last winter which will be sown next month.
Exceptions to this timing are the Amaryllids with fleshy seeds which are sown immediately even if imported from the southern hemisphere in our early summer. The seed often germinates in the post and seedings need to be kept cool and will then stay in growth until the following April when they can be dried off and treated as normal for winter growers."
on Tulips
I am no expert on tulips though I grow a few.
I have however converted a few bulbs from the southern hemisphere. The main thing is to pursuade the dormant bulb to grow roots at a suitable time in it's new home.
If your March is like October for tulips it should root. the next problem will be to keep it growing when it comes up, You will probably have to water it in April May June. if it is too hot the bulbs will cook.
I would plant the bulbs in sand and keep them in the shade outside. I would give only a little of water until they show leaves. Not dry, not wet.
on Tecophilaea
April
Having come from the southern hemisphere these corms are on the point of growing now and many already have a short green shoot appearing. They will have to be planted and watered on arrival and kept growing for as long as possible. Most should flower, they are certainly big enough, then build them up with additional potassium feeding before they go dormant.
They should then be given a short rest before starting them off again in the Autumn in the normal Northern Hemisphere cycle for growing bulbs.
Bear in mind that advice for seeds is usually good for bulbs too.
-
Maggi to the rescue, as always! What would we do without you, Maggi?
-
We'd be up the creek without a paddle I would think Ralph :D thanks as always for the advice Maggi.
-
I'm writing a useful DIY book for you guys so you can learn to cope without me! ::)
[attachimg=1]
-
I'll be first in line to buy it - hard copy too. 8)
-
Looks like there will be seeds.
-
You've done well John. I never get many seeds, and got none last year! Here is a pic of a seedling from a 2011 sowing. Got to think it's not 100% viridiflorus, but that's what the seed came as. Wild seed could have been pollinated by another sp.? Can't wait to see what it is.
-
That is exciting, Anthony! Looking forward to seeing what you've got,
cheers
fermi
-
Well it has turned out to be pure viridiflorus. Where there was one bulb there is now three leaves and one flower, so I suspect there will be four bulbs next year.
-
Not a bad increase there then, Anthony 8)
-
Seems they increase quite rapidly, but I suppose as this is the first flowering, I have three leaves rather than four flowering stems. There are two other non-flowering bulbs in the pot from the same batch of seeds. In my other pot I always have more flowering stems than bulbs.
-
Looks like there will be seeds.
A grand total of four seeds - not worth sending to the seedex!
-
That's not a bad return. Four times as many as I got last year! ;D
-
Grrrrrrrrrr! Yesterday I extracted the plants from the pot because I had the impression they were unhappy and .... 100s of tiny milky white larvae (around 1mm long) were feasting on them.I washed them off carefully, and then left the bulbs to dry, but the external layers were damaged, and I had to remove them (see pictures). What shall I do now? Repot? Bake them to simulate summer? Do they have leaves throughout the winter to the spring after or ....
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
-
Bummer! :( I have leaves until well after bulb fly season here, which is why I put the pots into a mesh cage..
-
What shall I do Anthony?
-
Will they re-root? Would they best be treated like daffs and allowed to dry out? How long would they need to be stored to kid on it's autumn again?
-
I'd be inclined to repot them and keep them on the dry side for the rest of your growing season. They will either re-root or more likely naturally retreat into dormancy. I'd prefer this approach to trying to force them, which might stress them out even more. I guess the danger is keeping them too wet and they rot, so go easy on the watering. The bulbs you picture appear to be reasonably sound, but you might try a light dusting of sulphur powder if you think it will help. Bulbs are pretty resilient, so with a bit of TLC you should be able to recover something for next year.
-
I have Narcissus viridiflorus which I bought earlier this year, but it has not come into leaf when it should have, I am in NZ and we are nearly over winter and still no leaves, I gently took it out of its pot to see if it had rotted but it is fine the only thing is it is splitting making several bulbs but no leaf, why anyone
Mel
-
Didn't know anyone was selling viridiflorus. Bill Dijk has plenty and presumably sells them when dormant, but they should be growing like it's going out of fashion just now. Mine started in growth at the beginning of May.
-
Narcissus Viridiflorus will in some seasons remain completely dormant, the bulbs will remain sound but just make no growth.
Leave them alone and they should make growth next season.
-
Narcissus Viridiflorus will in some seasons remain completely dormant, the bulbs will remain sound but just make no growth.
Leave them alone and they should make growth next season.
Thank goodness for the robust nature of bulbs, eh, Robin? :)
-
Thank you everybody, I will just do that!
-
Here's my larger pot of viridiflorus now. I'll keep it growing until mid November, depending on how it looks.
-
The new narcissus season has started off in great style with me, here is N. Viridiflorus flowering for the second time this year :D
-
Excellent! Mine still have stem leaves from the last flowering but no new growth so far.
-
Hi Ralph my plant also still has the leaves from when it flowered before they are really long. I'm just wondering if the pinch of potash I gave it after it last flowered has had an affect on it, not that I'm complaining😄
-
Some discussion on viridiflorus hybrids etc here : http://daffnet.org/dutch-grown-viridiflorus-hybrid-collection/?fb_action_ids=1089641601049064&fb_action_types=og.likes (http://daffnet.org/dutch-grown-viridiflorus-hybrid-collection/?fb_action_ids=1089641601049064&fb_action_types=og.likes)
-
Mine has survived the maggots treatments so far and has grown some very long a green leaves like John's, but no flowers as of yet.
Corrado
-
Well done corrado, glad you managed to save them.
-
Excellent news. Mine are drying out in pots in full sun in a fine mesh cage to keep the occasional bulb fly away. Leaves are still mostly green, but the tips are now yellowing.
-
Same here Anthony
-
Thanks Anthony, John! I am looking forward to some flowers to come ....
Corrado
-
Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, but I'm asking advice again (where would I be without this Forum?). Two years ago, I sowed some N.v seed which was already 12 months old. I was also given some freshly collected seed last January. Nothing had emerged by to-day so I carefully removed the compost to find shiny seed husks but nothing inside. I'd be obliged to receive suggestions on getting N. v seeds to germinate, eg., time to sow, water, etc. Thanks in advance.
-
Ouch! The temperature where I keep the Narcissus viridiflorus has dropped well below 0 and the soil on top of the pot was frozen hard. Will it survive Anthony, John? What minimum temperature can tolerate without cracking? Shall I bring it inside at around 15 - 16C?
Regards
Corrado
-
Seed pod that had formed to eventually abort. Hopefully the other plant will do better.
[attach=1]
There is a month and now dead
-
Ouch! The temperature where I keep the Narcissus viridiflorus has dropped well below 0 and the soil on top of the pot was frozen hard. Will it survive Anthony, John? What minimum temperature can tolerate without cracking? Shall I bring it inside at around 15 - 16C?
Regards
Corrado
Think south of Spain. Here we get the occasional ground frost, but the pots never experience freezing. Winter is in single digits over night, but we can get 16ēC during the day. The plants need to keep growing all winter, so water and mild temperatures are needed.
-
Think south of Spain. Here we get the occasional ground frost, but the pots never experience freezing. Winter is in single digits over night, but we can get 16ēC during the day. The plants need to keep growing all winter, so water and mild temperatures are needed.
Do you think I better put my plants in a room of the house where it is + - 10 ° C all winter to keep them? And then in the greenhouse once finished freezing the risks?
-
Sounds like a plan. I tried to grow them in Scotland in the greenhouse kept frost free. I think the problem was not keeping them growing over the winter, but not giving them a baking as they die back in the early summer.
-
Think south of Spain. Here we get the occasional ground frost, but the pots never experience freezing. Winter is in single digits over night, but we can get 16ēC during the day. The plants need to keep growing all winter, so water and mild temperatures are needed.
Thanks Anthony .... it is just that I have olive tree and jasmine in the pots in the same place, hence I thought it would have been fine (and also in good company botanically speaking :) ....)
Do you think I should bring them in and repot?
Corrado
-
I only repot when they have died back and the soil is dry. January/February in New Zealand, so July/August in the UK.