Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Hepatica => Topic started by: Paul T on January 28, 2008, 12:12:59 PM

Title: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on January 28, 2008, 12:12:59 PM
Howdy All,

I thought this might be a useful discussion thread to have here...... for people to ask questions and/or give suggestions re cultivation of Hepatica.  Given our rather diverse climatic condtions in various parts of the world you just never know what little gems we might pick up from someone else's experiences.

Now I have a specific question...... what time of year is best to repot Hepaticas.  Also, what age do you suggest pricking out or repotting Hepatica seedlings.  I had bad experiences with pricking out part (thankfully not the whole) of a pot of seedlings that were just shooting their second season of true leaves (i.e starting their third year of growth I guess?) and I lost nearly all of them.  I have a few different lots of seedlings coming along from wonderfully generous people here on this forum and I'd like to do them justice, rather than killing them as soon as I repot them.  Should I after two years just pot the whole pot up into a larger pot to givem them more space but not disturb the roots?  Should I be fertilising them?

And I have yet another question...... how catastrophic to a Hepatica is drying out enough for it's leaves to die?  I think the central crowns are still alive, although obviously not as big as they should be because they're only half way through the growing season.  I "think" it will survive the trauma, but will it now wait until next spring or will it reshoot new leaves for the rest of the summer?  Or will it now decline and die?  I haev no live leaves on it at all now, as they've all browned off in the 35'C days a couple of weeks ago... I guess I missed watering that pot.  :'(   I only have 3 mature Hepatica plans so the loss of this one will be pretty dreadul!!

Thanks in anticipation of any advice or reassurance anyone can provide.  :D
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on February 09, 2008, 11:42:49 AM
So.... does that mean that everyone else grows them in the ground and therefore never pricks out seedlings, and that everyone else lives in climates where the Hepatica never stand a chance of drying out?  Ah the wonders of cooler summers and no water restrictions! <sigh>
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 10, 2008, 10:07:48 AM
Hi Paul,

I'm definitely not the big Hepatica expert but I do love them.
I once got two potfulls of seedlings from Chris Vermeire who also posts here - they were two years old and I pricked them out in early spring - all did quite well and gave me their first flowers the next Spring - their third year.  I keep them in the shade during Summer and don't let them completely dry out.  I have the impression they don't want an awful lot of moisture from late Spring onwards.  After all, in nature they are in the woods, under leaf cover, in fierce competition with tree roots for water, so they have to be happy with what they get.
Obviously, our summers are quite unlike yours.... ;D - but I think, given some shade and some water every now and then, they should be ok with you.
 
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Susan Band on February 10, 2008, 10:33:20 AM
Hepaticas put out their new roots just at or after flowering. I would suggest that this is the best time to move them just as they start putting down the new roots. Keep them well watered until the roots have sopped growing, if you leave it too late any broken roots will be sitting til the next season. The new roots are much paler brown in colour and have white tips to the ends, they come from the crown and in theory they don't really need the old roots again.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on February 10, 2008, 11:35:08 AM
Thanks for the responses.  hepaticas in general do just fine for me, or at least for the few years I've been growing them.  My big concern was my most mature plant which dried out and all it's leaves went brown..... and I'm wondering whether it will acutally survive or whether that is it.  it was "only" a common blue, but no Hep is common in this country so it was VERY valuable to me.

As to seedlings..... I have a number of pots that are reaching their second or third growing seasons thanks to the wonderful people on this forum.  I experimented with pricking out part of a pot from my first sowing (Thanks Lesley) and promptly lost pretty much every one of them.  I don't really want to lose the rest of them, but maybe it sounds like I should leave it until they actually start shooting in spring before I repot them, whereas I tried to time it last time to just prior to shooting so that the new growth wasn't soft and therefore mor likely to wilt.  Sounds like I may have got it jsut that bit early, kept them too damp, and lost them as a result.  The only one of them that thrived was one in a pot I gave to a friend..... of the 3 seedlings one survived and I expect by how well it grew it will flower in spring this year, well ahead of those seedlings which I left for safety in the original pot.  Still, they're alive and that is what matters!!

Thanks again for the responses.  Sorry if my spelling is dodgy at the moemnt.... it's late and I'm tired.  Just wanted to say Thanks before heading off to bed.  8)
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Gunhild Poulsen on February 15, 2008, 07:56:31 AM
I am always pricking my Hepatica in spring as soon as the seeds has emergence, and the first two small leaves are big enough to handle. By pricking I ad some long lasting fetiliser. In that way they always flowers the 4. year, rarely the 3 year after sowing.

I don’t know the climate where you are living. Maybe it’s not the right way to do it in your part of the world. A Japanese Hepatica grower tells me, that they never repot or pricks out Hepatica in the spring, because of the heat summer.They always do it in autumn.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: johngennard on February 15, 2008, 08:39:32 PM
Paul,
This is the first time that I have picked up this thread and others have already given good advice.I did give full details of my own methods in last years thread and they are broadly the same  as the others but one difference which may help you in your climate is the fact that instead of pricking out into individual pots I prick out about 15/20 seedlings to a 3ltr.plastic pot.This provides a much greater volume of compost that is less prone to dry out during the dormant period and despite other comments I do not believe that they enjoy being completely dry at any time.I was given this tip by Phillip Baulk of Ashwood Nurseries who are ace growers of the genus
and he stated that they like company which is perhaps another way of putting it.I have certainly suffered far less losses since adopting this method and far less space taken up by what turned out to be empty pots by the following season.Good luck with your efforts.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 16, 2008, 10:21:15 AM
Sounds like very sound advice John - I'll keep it in mind  ;)
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: chris on February 17, 2008, 06:12:36 PM
just want to say I try to repot my seedlings in autum, from end of october and I give one or two weeks before some fosfor fertiliser (10-52-10) 1 gram/liter, fosfor is good for the roots and they recover verry fast from damage.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Afloden on February 19, 2008, 08:18:00 PM
 Hepatica, like Cimicifuga (Actaea), Clematis, Helleborus, Eranthis, etc, begin their new root growth in the fall, which is when I begin to repot them and why fall sown Hepatica seed is good, but best just as they ripen. They continue to produce new roots, but the new and main crop of new roots is fall produced with a second minor one just after flowering. The next years buds are formed in summer (Aug-Sept), with noticeable bud growth in Sept-Nov. I continue dividing, repotting, and potting on until I finish sometimes throughout the fall, winter, and into spring, much like a friend in Japan. I don't think there is much harm done by dividing in the spring just as the buds swell, in flower, or just after the leaves harden though. Repotting in the fall enables them to grow a better root system before they flower or have to face a hot summer when the next years buds are formed.

 I always sow in 6-8cm pots in quantity and then only pot those on after 2 years. The first flowers normally occur the third year.

 A little fertilizer, heavy in potash is good when repotting. Water well until you can take one out of a small pot after a few weeks and see the new yellowish white roots at the edges of the soil ball.

 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, Tennessee
 
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Gunhild Poulsen on February 20, 2008, 09:20:38 PM
Aaron - you write: first flowers normally occur the third year.
I'm curious to know - is it the third year after sowing or the third year after the the small leaves are shown?


Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Afloden on February 23, 2008, 01:01:24 PM
 It would be the third year from when the cotyledons show up. So sowing last years (2007) seed would produce flowers beginning in 2011, since the cotyledons will be showing in the next couple of weeks. I am sure fertilizer could push that or make the first flowering better, but I grow my plants lean.

 The second flowering really shows what the flowers will look like though. The first tends to have one or two flowers of a color atypical from maturity.

 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, TN
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Peter Maguire on February 25, 2008, 07:48:03 PM
To start another line of enquiry..

I tipped out a pot of a young Hepatica henryi yestrday which was showing no signs of the central bud swelling. Sure enough, there was no central bud, probably due to a passing slug, but at about 4/5 places around the root ball, very small shoots could be seen to be growing, almost in a suckering fashion. Naturally the plant was immediately repotted!

Has anyone noticed this behaviour before, as it seems like a potential way to form a good clump (mot that I'm advocating removing the main buds from the centre of the plant).

Peter
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: johngennard on February 25, 2008, 09:24:19 PM
I have'nt experienced this myself unfortuneately but I have read where a possible propagation method is from the thicker portions of
the root thongs as root cuttings.I have not had any success I have to say.Here are a few pics. from my hepatica house taken to-day.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 25, 2008, 09:28:10 PM
John, what fabulous views  :o :o
Some of these plants must be 15 years old or more ???  ???
Brilliant display !!
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Peter Maguire on February 25, 2008, 11:26:35 PM
You have a hepatica house!  :o

Peter
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: johngennard on February 26, 2008, 10:46:08 AM
It is now !!!!
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: johngennard on February 28, 2008, 09:39:21 PM
Thought you may be interested to see these pots of seedlings growing 15/20 in a 3ltr.pot and flowering in the main for the first time.
The other pot is interesting because the seed was only sowed in April 2004 and I have never had flowers that soon before and before they have been pricked out.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on March 02, 2008, 02:45:09 AM
John,

Oh I do so wish I could visit your place.  Your various pics are absolutely heavenly!!  These latest Hepatica pics are glorious!!  Thanks also for the advice re pricking out seedlings.  It sounds like I can do it any time from autumn to spring, so I guess some more experimentation with the eldest seedlings is in order (Lesley Cox's deep pinks!)

Heading towards autumn now, although this was the coolest February in 12 years we didn't even reach 30'C this Feb, which is extraordinary.... we should be getting closer to 40'C at times.  I'd imagine that the Hepaticas would be starting their root growth by now, if it commences in autumn.  We've already been down to 5'C, which is also extremely unusual for the hottest month of the year (well it normally would be anyway).

Under two years for a flower!!??  I WISH.   ;D  I'll just be happy if I get a couple of flowers this year, as I think they've just completed their third growing season.  Fingers crossed!!

Thanks again for the advice in the Hepatica threads.  All gratefully received, even if this is a somewhat belated thanks.  Still slowly catching up on everything from my fortnight of barely using the computer.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: mark smyth on September 05, 2008, 10:36:02 PM
Now that autumn is almost upon us is there any thing I should do with my collection that are in pots? A feed etc?
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: mark smyth on December 02, 2008, 05:58:31 PM
Flowering has already started with some of my collection. A couple of small plants have no flowers left. Next year I plan to repot all of my plants. Right now they are in 2L long toms. John what size terracotta pots do you use?
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: EinMy on December 10, 2008, 05:36:47 AM
I grow Hepaticas in a cooler climate than most members here. I would say that pricking seedlings in their first year is no problem if you take precautions to prevent them from drying out. Drainage in the pot should be good and the soil should be kept wet at all times. By wet I actually mean soaking wet. I plunge my pots into bigger trays and fill these trays up with water untill just below the rim of the pot. The pots stay in the trays of water for around half an hour to make sure the soil can absorb no more water. If your pots keep drying out even so then put the pots inside plastic(polysterene) bags in addition to reduce evaporation. This may not look too good to visitors but is to be preferred to a pot of dead seedlings of course.
Also fertilize your seedlings once a week with half the recommended strength of the type you use. That keeps them growing well enough to put up their first normal leaf as early as in June here.

Einar
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Maggi Young on December 10, 2008, 10:08:40 AM
Einar, an interesting technique... a lot of water involved, for sure !
Would you please add your home area to you signature box of your profile.... it helps if we can see  exactly where you garden in "a cooler climate" !
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: EinMy on December 10, 2008, 11:52:06 AM
I hope my location will show now. If not,- I live some 20 kilometres south of Trondheim, Norway. -12 centigrade at the moment, 4 inches snowcover and the sun is shining. Just my idea of paradise!

Yes, I soak my pots but let the water run off by itself afterwards. It is not a lot of work. You simply pour in the water and empty the tray somewhere convenient afterwards. I am not transferring Hepaticas to a subspecies of Caltha palustris. Hepaticas do not like to be placed in waterlogged soils on permanent basis but can actually be submerged in water for some days in the wild. They also seem to be untouched by such involuntary incidents.
Kath Dryden once said that if in doubt whether to water a plant or not, then water it! I think this was a good piece of advice.

Regards
Einar
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on December 11, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
Einar,

And yet I found that the first lot of seedlings I took out into separate pots (approximately 2 years old) I watered too regularly and they all rotted.  Maybe it was the fact they were older instead of so young.  The following year I took more seedlings out of the original pot (now 3 years old) and I think every one of them was successful as I didn't water them as often.

Lesley, these were your seedlings, so there are now around 15 or 20 of them successfully taken out of the original sowing pot, and probably still another 50 of them in there.  ???  I think every single one of your seedlings germinated, or it seems that way.  After the first attempt I was worried I was going to have to leave them in the same pot together permanently.  ;)

Thanks Einar for the information.... I shall try your way at some point with some freshly germinated seedlings and see how they go.  I would much prefer to get them into their own pots earlier rather than later.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: EinMy on December 11, 2008, 04:55:59 PM
Paul, growing Hepaticas in Oz would be a challenge to any one of us so-called experienced growers so I think you have proven your abilities as a gardener simply by making then grow at all. When having said this, there are ofcourse always ways to improve your techniques, and I do have some ideas about this.

I wonder why your seedlings survived this year and not last year for a start. If time of year, potting mix and all other constants were the same both years I cannot understand why reduced watering should increase seedling survival rate. Unless: You use the recommended leafy compost used for Hepaticas in most of Europe in a climate much warmer than here. Microbiological activity increases with higher temperatures, meaning in short that the activity of pests will be higer in a leafy compost in Australia than in northern Europe. I would like to suggest that you exchange a considerable part of the humus in your potting mixes with sand. Sand is a "cleaner" material that reduces the activity of germs. This means that you may have to fertilize and water your plants more frequently, but I think your plants might grow better after such a change of potting mixture.
Hepaticas need a nourishing mix or fertilization of course, and it is still my experience that Hepaticas grow better in wet or moist soils than moderately moist soils. The roots do not need moisture only but also air or oxygen, so the soil mix should not stay sogging wet over time. Perlite drains the soil but also stores moisture at least for some time. If my inner picture of what has happend to your seedlings is correct, then I would suggest a well-draining soil for your seedlings and an increased amount of sand and Perlite in your potting mix.

In western Norway Hepaticas grow in "rainforest" conditions as for average precipitation during summer months, so there's no lack of water in the soils there. I therefore find it hard to believe that watering alone caused your seedligs' demise.

I think many of us are impressed with your achievements in the sense that you are pioneering ways of cultivating the little blue gems under climatic conditions that otherwise would be too hostile for them. You are paving the way for others,- or "shovelling away the snow for others" to use a Norwegian metaphor  ;D

Best regards
Einar
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on December 11, 2008, 09:07:47 PM
Einar,

There are a couple of us here in Canberra who grow Hepaticas, so I'm not that much of a pioneer.  Thanks for the sentiment though.  Potting-wise I use a good quality potting mix with excellent drainage.  I do tend to add some coarse river sand to anything that requires even better drainage, but I actually left the sand out of the seedling repotting of the Hepaticas.  They have grown very well this year and I expect a bunch of them to flower next year so I can find out whether Lesley's seedlings are all the same pink or not. 

I also repotted a couple of other pots from the same year, after watching the seedlings I'd just repotted for a couple of weeks and realised that with the lower water levels they were much happier than the year before, so hopefully there'll be even more Heps flowering next spring. 

I have only a few adult plants, a couple of blues and a white with pink shading in the buds... some of these also have seedlings under them this year as well so that will also be interesting to see the results of in a few years.  I would love to get doubles, but they are very, very rare here.  Maybe one day.  I'd love to try to get seed of semi-doubles to see whether I could manage to produce a double seedling or tow, or some semi-doubles.  Might be the easiest way to get them here. 

I'm definitely finding that growing them from seed here is working well for me, so I will keep trying to get hold of different colours in seed to see what else I can add to my collection.  I greatly appreciate the generous SRGC members who have sent me seed in the past.... they're pretty much all doing very well and I will post pics of the results as they commence flowering (as I did this season when a few seedlings started).  So exciting getting new colours, even if so far that is "just" a mid pink from Lesley's seed.  I put the just in quotes because it was a colour I didn't have, and that meant it was exciting.  I am hoping for a few different shades in that lot of seed, but if not I will still be happy with some fantastic mid pinks.

So if people have spare seed of their Heps this spring that they'd like to trade/donate to the Hepatica colonisation efforts of Australia  ;) then please keep me in mind.  ;D

Thanks again everyone. 8)
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Michael J Campbell on December 11, 2008, 09:20:19 PM
Paul, if things go according to plan I should have seed of various colours to spare. Remind me in the spring.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on December 11, 2008, 09:47:56 PM
Michael,

Thank you, Yes please.  I would like to build up a good collection of colours from seed, as they'll all be acclimated to here and I think will work far better than brought in plants given my conditions.  That is the frustration with the double plants.... no seed.  ::)

Now, not being facetious..... when actually IS your spring?  It varies so much around the world, so I'm never sure.  Given we're the "opposite" it makes it harder too.  I'm assuming you're meaning somewhere around the March or so region?
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Michael J Campbell on December 11, 2008, 09:57:48 PM
Paul, the end of March should be ok , really depends on the weather.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Paul T on December 11, 2008, 10:52:14 PM
Coolo.  Shall try to remember....  ::)

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: cohan on August 13, 2009, 01:56:49 AM
hi all, a little browsing in this category, but i didn't find any discussion of siting re: light; i guess that's very basic..lol
i understand these are woodland plants, but just wondering if dappled edge of deciduous forest, shady summer mid deciduous forest, or shadier mixed forest is the most appropriate?
consider that i am in a cold zone, with sometimes (not always) some warm/hot weather in mid-summer, but not hot enough for long enough that i think it will be a factor..

no hepaticas grow naturally here, but i do have lots of native linnaea, pyrola, maianthemum etc if those growing conditions help to relate...
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: Stephen Vella on August 14, 2009, 12:21:08 AM
Cohan,

Hepaticas like deciduous shade and will also grow under conifers as long as it gets some morning sun. Best to shade them from summer mid day sun(north side).

As a general rule woodlanders from deciduous forests will flower first,do the business of getting pollinated and start to leaf out while the sun shines through,these set seed while the forest starts to leaf out providing cool conditions.

Seeds sown in pots are easy, keep them shaded and moist as allways and when old enough after 2 or 3 years plant them in the ground where Hepatica's have more of a survival rate than in pots. Dig some organics and mulch them with woodchips, Hepaticas have very long roots and will search for moisture and get it. If in pots you risk them drying out if you cannot keep the water up and will allways send roots out of the pot.

Hepaticas also dont like competition from other suckering type of perennial woodlanders. 

good luck
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: cohan on August 14, 2009, 07:45:59 AM
Cohan,

Hepaticas like deciduous shade and will also grow under conifers as long as it gets some morning sun. Best to shade them from summer mid day sun(north side).

As a general rule woodlanders from deciduous forests will flower first,do the business of getting pollinated and start to leaf out while the sun shines through,these set seed while the forest starts to leaf out providing cool conditions.

Seeds sown in pots are easy, keep them shaded and moist as allways and when old enough after 2 or 3 years plant them in the ground where Hepatica's have more of a survival rate than in pots. Dig some organics and mulch them with woodchips, Hepaticas have very long roots and will search for moisture and get it. If in pots you risk them drying out if you cannot keep the water up and will allways send roots out of the pot.

Hepaticas also dont like competition from other suckering type of perennial woodlanders. 

good luck

thanks, steven
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: gote on August 14, 2009, 10:20:31 AM
hi all, a little browsing in this category, but i didn't find any discussion of siting re: light; i guess that's very basic..lol
i understand these are woodland plants, but just wondering if dappled edge of deciduous forest, shady summer mid deciduous forest, or shadier mixed forest is the most appropriate?
consider that i am in a cold zone, with sometimes (not always) some warm/hot weather in mid-summer, but not hot enough for long enough that i think it will be a factor..

no hepaticas grow naturally here, but i do have lots of native linnaea, pyrola, maianthemum etc if those growing conditions help to relate...

Hepaticas grow naturally in dark places because they have an edge over the competition there. In a garden situation they grow better in more light. Not in a situation that would fit a Sempervivum or Opuntia but a few hours of sunligt in the temperate zone is good for them.
Göte
Title: Re: Hepatica cultivation
Post by: cohan on August 14, 2009, 06:48:20 PM
Hepaticas grow naturally in dark places because they have an edge over the competition there. In a garden situation they grow better in more light. Not in a situation that would fit a Sempervivum or Opuntia but a few hours of sunligt in the temperate zone is good for them.
Göte

i guess common to our theory of many species--not necessarily growing where they like best, but where they have a competitive edge...
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