Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Yann on January 01, 2015, 04:03:39 PM

Title: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Yann on January 01, 2015, 04:03:39 PM
Narcissus cantabricus J.W. Blanchard 8820
Narcissus romieuxii subsp. albidus var. Zaianicus M168
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Michael J Campbell on January 01, 2015, 05:55:51 PM
Narcissus Limy Lass.
Narcissus romieuxii.
Narcissus romieuxii petunioides.
Narcissus Camoro x mesatlanticus seedlings.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: ikizzeki on January 02, 2015, 04:17:56 PM
Narcissus tazetta, but not know subspeciese..
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Yann on January 04, 2015, 10:25:47 AM
Narcissus albidus SF110 x bulbocodium praecox Moulay Brahim (from Anne)
Narcissus cantabricus ssp cantabricus
Narcissus romieuxii 'Craigton Clumper'
Narcissus romieuxii JCA 805 ‘Atlas Gold’
Narcissus albidus RRW8853
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 04, 2015, 12:00:01 PM
That's a good selection for the first week of the year.   8)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: ikizzeki on January 04, 2015, 06:49:49 PM
 Both are flowering now. They are very same but I am suspicious whether same or not. Can anyone  clarify? :'(
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 04, 2015, 07:18:18 PM
Both are flowering now. They are very same but I am suspicious whether same or not. Can anyone  clarify? :'(
  Yes, very similar - but I think not the same . There are quite a few of  double narcissus of that type.

Do you  perhaps notice any difference in the scent?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: ikizzeki on January 05, 2015, 07:12:02 AM
So many thanks Maggie..Both have same  sweetly scented. The first is almost more than 50 cm height, more floriferous. According to Daffseek 'Double Roman' is dwarf in height.So second very close to Double Roman, but what is the first. In the shape first is very close to Double Roman but it is so height,  found over 65 cm last year..
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 05, 2015, 11:44:46 AM
Ther  problem lies in the fact that in cultivation plants can reach very different heights in different situations - even in many Daffseek descriptions the size given can range to double the size!

A Daffseek  search for plants in the  4 W-O  or 4 W-Y -( because there can be decision to be made about exact colour) will show many plants which are quite similar.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: David Nicholson on January 05, 2015, 02:26:54 PM
Narcissus 'Camoro' from the greenhouse today.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 05, 2015, 07:11:52 PM
Beautiful pic of 'Camoro' , David   Camoro = CAntabricus MOnophyllus ROmieuxii
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: David Nicholson on January 05, 2015, 07:49:46 PM
Ah! Cheers Maggi, I've edited it.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 05, 2015, 07:57:12 PM
 :-* Thanks, David.
It's a really good plant, isn't it?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: David Nicholson on January 05, 2015, 08:08:55 PM
Yes, a good strong 'un, heads stand up well.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 08, 2015, 03:57:44 PM
Happy New Year! This is my first post in 2015 :)

This flower is in the same pot of my previous post on last Christmas Eve (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12513.msg319846#msg319846) because I thought these bulbs are a same clone. Now I think there are at least 2 similar clones in the pot. Their corona shape looks different for me. Anyway, I like this flower better than the previous one I posted :)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 08, 2015, 04:39:40 PM
Certainly a particularly attractive flower, Tatsuo.  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Yann on January 08, 2015, 04:59:08 PM
That's a nice one
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 09, 2015, 04:10:54 PM
That is a beauty, Tatsuo.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Michael J Campbell on January 10, 2015, 12:18:07 PM
Narcissus smarple
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 10, 2015, 12:35:02 PM
Thank you, all. I'll separate this bulb from others in the pot this summer.

I'm lucky to get this flower in a way. But I'm not sure it is "true" N. ‘Hatsuyuki’.
Today, the corona is over 5cm in diameter and flower stem is still 15cm in height.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Yann on January 10, 2015, 12:37:36 PM
Narcissus jeanmonodii
Narcissus paucinervis RRW 8418
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Cyril L on January 10, 2015, 08:50:16 PM
Thank you, all. I'll separate this bulb from others in the pot this summer.

I'm lucky to get this flower in a way. But I'm not sure it is "true" N. ‘Hatsuyuki’.
Today, the corona is over 5cm in diameter and flower stem is still 15cm in height.
Very striking flower Tatsuo.  Do you know what the parents of N. 'Hatsuyuki' are?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: ArnoldT on January 11, 2015, 11:03:11 PM
Narcissus bulbocodium praecox..
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 13, 2015, 12:51:44 PM
Matt Bishop and Alan Street, both perhaps better known for their interest in galanthus, have "discovered" a new cultivar of Narcissus :
 http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Chance-discovery-new-daffodil-Cornish-garden/story-25847094-detail/story.html (http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Chance-discovery-new-daffodil-Cornish-garden/story-25847094-detail/story.html)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Corrado & Rina on January 13, 2015, 04:56:50 PM
Narcissus jeanmonodii
Narcissus paucinervis RRW 8418

Amazing pictures .... now I am quite envious!

Corrado
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 15, 2015, 09:24:05 AM
It's a real beauty, Tatsuo. I'm interested in your Japanese ruler! Are Japanese numbers different to the English ones on your ruler?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 16, 2015, 12:56:59 AM
Very striking flower Tatsuo.  Do you know what the parents of N. 'Hatsuyuki' are?

Cyril, unfortunately the nursery withholds the parentage :( I think it was choiced from the chance seedlings in a greenhouse as Ian's magic sand plunge ::)
I feel some N. cantabricus monophyllus influence from its small number of leaves.

It's a real beauty, Tatsuo. I'm interested in your Japanese ruler! Are Japanese numbers different to the English ones on your ruler?

Anne, the digits on the ruler are the "Arabic" numerals ;D Japanese government had officially adopted the metric system in 1885 and I'll send you a Japanese ruler if you still use the one with imperial units ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 16, 2015, 01:46:03 PM
A brief sunny spell, so I dashed out to catch some not terribly great snaps.

Narcissus asturiensis - just opened
Narcissus 'Craigton Clanger' - have shown this before, but love the shape of these flowers in side view
Narcissus 'Don Stead' - open a while, so past his best, but still a lovely thing, and nestled beneath him another form of ...
Narcissus hedraeanthus
Narcissus jeanmonodii x N. bulbocodium genuinis
(which I think is now N. b. bulbocodium?) - picked these up at the small bulb exchange at the DWE, and I think they came from Anne W? Almost a bicolour, with perianth segments slightly paler than the corona.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 16, 2015, 03:10:15 PM
Anne, the digits on the ruler are the "Arabic" numerals ;D Japanese government had officially adopted the metric system in 1885 and I'll send you a Japanese ruler if you still use the one with imperial units ;D ;D ;D
You have a 130-years-old Japanese ruler??!!  :o :o
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 16, 2015, 03:11:17 PM
Excuse me, I did not mean the Emperor - this is getting complicated.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 16, 2015, 03:13:49 PM
Narcissus jeanmonodii x N. bulbocodium genuinis [/i] (which I think is now N. b. bulbocodium?) - picked these up at the small bulb exchange at the DWE, and I think they came from Anne W? Almost a bicolour, with perianth segments slightly paler than the corona.
Don't think it's one of mine, Matt. You are ahead of me here - is it the Gulf Stream pushing yours on?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: ArnoldT on January 18, 2015, 03:42:20 AM
From Brian Duncan

Narcissus bulbocodium Morocco
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 18, 2015, 05:50:02 PM
Don't think it's one of mine, Matt. You are ahead of me here - is it the Gulf Stream pushing yours on?

If I remember rightly we had a relatively cold start to our autumn, so the bulbs got off to an early start. I've had lots of 'early' flowers and noses up on plants I wouldn't normally expect for another few weeks. The N. asturiensis IS your's, lovely it is too and one of my favourite Narcissus (but I love them all really).
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 18, 2015, 05:52:06 PM
Some hoops out now. My favourites of all my hoop seedlings, almost all the ones from this batch of seedlings (number 2773) are really delicious - elegant shape, good texture, lovely ivory white colour. I hope those who got some from me last summer as Narcissus romieuxii petunioid x albidus SF110 like them as much as I do.
A strongly reflexed seedling from the elusive N. romieuxii 'Julia Jane'
A self-sown seedling, presumably from 'Joy Bishop'
A seedling from 'Atlas Gold;' which has got a little carried away and ended up splitting itself - compost fodder..
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 18, 2015, 05:54:42 PM
Two of Brian Duncan's - Lemon Flare, and one of his 'Snowdrop Daffodils', a Galantoquilla group.
Finally, 'Don Stead', a dwarf variety which has a slightly laterally flattened corona.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 18, 2015, 05:57:52 PM
A self-sown seedling, presumably from 'Joy Bishop'

Isn't that lovely! I'm in two minds about Joy 'Bishop', but this one retains her general character but also has a more refined elegance?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 18, 2015, 06:00:03 PM
Finally, 'Don Stead', a dwarf variety which has a slightly laterally flattened corona.

I daren't say "squashed" in case the BD is monitoring these posts  ;) but my plant is also "laterally flattened"  ;D which I like as well as the fact that the scape remains short even in my low light levels.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 18, 2015, 06:09:20 PM
I daren't say "squashed" in case the BD is monitoring these posts  ;) but my plant is also "laterally flattened"

I tried to be diplomatic - but I like it too - it gives it a bit of character, and as you say it stays nice and short. Must cross it with something.. ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 18, 2015, 06:50:49 PM
BD in heap on floor ......... ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 18, 2015, 08:17:56 PM
Oh No! We like it that way, we really do!
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on January 18, 2015, 08:47:41 PM
Turns out the BD's funny turn was brought on by shock of your 'Don Steads' being so much further on than his. They are only just emerging from the pot now.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 19, 2015, 04:21:59 AM
Narcissus ‘Craigton Clumper’ has fully opened today :) :) :) Thank you Ian Y and Maggi :-*
And N. 'Don Stead', N. ‘Craigton Clumper’ and N. ‘Craigton Chorister’ (from left to right) in the third picture.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 19, 2015, 04:27:30 AM
Some hoops out now. My favourites of all my hoop seedlings, almost all the ones from this batch of seedlings (number 2773) are really delicious - elegant shape, good texture, lovely ivory white colour. I hope those who got some from me last summer as Narcissus romieuxii petunioid x albidus SF110 like them as much as I do.
A strongly reflexed seedling from the elusive N. romieuxii 'Julia Jane'
A self-sown seedling, presumably from 'Joy Bishop'

Lovely seedlings, Anne :P
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: JPB on January 21, 2015, 03:01:07 PM
Narcissus cantabricus, Aldea del Fresno, Madrid
Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. ???. Received as subsp. nivalis but nivalis is a native of Morocco. Could it be subsp. validus?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Yann on January 21, 2015, 08:16:00 PM
Narcissus albidus RRW8853
Narcissus cantabricus J.W. Blanchard 8820
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 22, 2015, 07:46:28 AM
Lovely hoops!
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: WNOETULIP on January 22, 2015, 07:47:02 AM
Hi JPB
You wrote
Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. ???. Received as subsp. nivalis but nivalis is a native of Morocco. Could it be subsp. validus?
nivalis comes from the Iberian peninsular not Morocco see following link
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/namedetail.do?name_id=282057 (http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/namedetail.do?name_id=282057)
Daffseek has lots of photographs of nivalis including one that i posted
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?photo2=5e8ef18aab97ac11692aa249964dd5f6&pagenum1=1& (http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?photo2=5e8ef18aab97ac11692aa249964dd5f6&pagenum1=1&)

Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 22, 2015, 03:26:52 PM
Narcissus cantabricus J.W. Blanchard 8820

A stunning plant. It's a shame that N. cantabricus is so sulky with me - summers too cool and grey.  :'(
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Corrado & Rina on January 22, 2015, 04:36:34 PM
A stunning plant. It's a shame that N. cantabricus is so sulky with me - summers too cool and grey.  :'(

Apologies for the question Matt, but what is the weather like in the summer there?

Regards

Corrado
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: JPB on January 22, 2015, 05:15:53 PM
Hi JPB
You wrote
Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. ???. Received as subsp. nivalis but nivalis is a native of Morocco. Could it be subsp. validus?
nivalis comes from the Iberian peninsular not Morocco see following link
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/namedetail.do?name_id=282057 (http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/namedetail.do?name_id=282057)
Daffseek has lots of photographs of nivalis including one that i posted
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?photo2=5e8ef18aab97ac11692aa249964dd5f6&pagenum1=1& (http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?photo2=5e8ef18aab97ac11692aa249964dd5f6&pagenum1=1&)
You are right. I found another picture of N. bulb bulb. nivalis from Estrella; http://www.eco.science.ru.nl/plantecology/Estrela/pig_taxa1.html (http://www.eco.science.ru.nl/plantecology/Estrela/pig_taxa1.html)
This plant is very similar to my nivalis. Short corona (half the length of the tube).
I checked the John Hammond book and he found similar plants "in the Asturias" which is close to or part of the Cantabrian mountains...
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 22, 2015, 06:17:03 PM
As I understand it, the N.b.nivalis like plants that are found in North Africa should be known as N. jeanmonodii?

Edit: just been reading through old threads. They're all N.bulbocodium [full stop] ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 22, 2015, 06:28:20 PM
Apologies for the question Matt, but what is the weather like in the summer there?

Regards

Corrado

No need to apologise! Our summers are typically cool, with temperatures reaching the high teens if we're lucky. May is usually a good month, with a reasonable amount of sun. June can be good too, which is when the machair wildflowers start to come into their own. However, July and August typically turn a bit cloudier and wetter. Being a low-lying island in the 'Gulf Stream' we are lucky not to suffer very cold winters and hard/prolonged frosts are rare. This also means we don't have baking hot summers. Overall our climate is more equable that other parts of the country - mild wet and windy winters followed by mild, wet and less windy summers.

The Met Office has interesting average climatic data from across the UK. You can find ours here: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate/gf4z088dj (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate/gf4z088dj)
Usefully, you could also enter your own location under the "Location comparison" tab to compare the average climate of our respective locations. It might help you to understand our climate in relation to your own?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Rafa on January 23, 2015, 11:35:03 AM
Hans, I would say your plant is N. bulbocodium subsp. nivalis, however this name is not accepted and many botanist consider this is the same bulboodium that grows everywhere in Spain. I support Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. nivalis and this only grows in central mountain ranges in Spain and also Sierra de Estrella in Portugal.
You are right Matt T, there is a similar species in Morocco called N. jeanmonodii,
http://www.treknature.com/gallery/photo232628.htm4 (http://www.treknature.com/gallery/photo232628.htm4)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: JPB on January 24, 2015, 07:04:16 AM
Hans, I would say your plant is N. bulbocodium subsp. nivalis, however this name is not accepted and many botanist consider this is the same bulboodium that grows everywhere in Spain. I support Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. nivalis and this only grows in central mountain ranges in Spain and also Sierra de Estrella in Portugal.
You are right Matt T, there is a similar species in Morocco called N. jeanmonodii,
http://www.treknature.com/gallery/photo232628.htm4 (http://www.treknature.com/gallery/photo232628.htm4)

What a beautiful plant!!!
It seems that I'm a little behind with Narcissus taxonomy...
Will there be a new monograph any time soon? ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Corrado & Rina on January 24, 2015, 08:17:34 AM
What a beautiful plant!!!
It seems that I'm a little behind with Narcissus taxonomy...
Will there be a new monograph any time soon? ::)

Mmmm .... the most recent position is that N.bulbocodium subsp. nivalis is synonym with N. nivalis, so it is a species, and this position  accepted in the world checklist database. Of course, there will always be some that disagree or most botanists would be out of a job ....  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Fernández Casas, F.J. (2009). Narcissorum notulae, XII. Fontqueria 56: 15-28.

Best,

Corrado
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: WNOETULIP on January 24, 2015, 09:07:26 AM
Mmmm .... the most recent position is that N.bulbocodium subsp. nivalis is synonym with N. nivalis, so it is a species, and this position  accepted in the world checklist database. Of course, there will always be some that disagree or most botanists would be out of a job ....  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Corrado

Narcissus nivalis was described by the Spanish physician, naturalist and politician Mariano de la Paz Graells and published in Memorias, Real Academia de Ciencias Exactas, Físicas y Naturales de Madrid 2: 473, in 1859. The species name nivalis, means snow. (Wikipedia)

Attached is the pdf of that page
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Corrado & Rina on January 24, 2015, 09:21:46 AM
Narcissus nivalis was described by the Spanish physician, naturalist and politician Mariano de la Paz Graells and published in Memorias, Real Academia de Ciencias Exactas, Físicas y Naturales de Madrid 2: 473, in 1859. The species name nivalis, means snow. (Wikipedia)

Attached is the pdf of that page

Exactly (aand thanks for the pdf!). Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. nivalis was then described in 1890, but  it is indeed assumed to be a synonym of Narcissus nivalis in the world checklist database and in the international plant name index and in the most recent publications, for example in the already mentioned Fernández Casas, F.J. (2009). Narcissorum notulae, XII. Fontqueria. 

I do not think that does add or take away to the beauty of Hans plant .... fantastic!

PS: Do you have the original 1890 paper describing Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. nivalis?

Regards

Corrado
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 26, 2015, 07:04:17 AM
Narcissus minor, JJA702.305 :) :) :) From wild collected seeds, Spain, Leon, La Pola de Gordon. 1300m.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Matt T on January 26, 2015, 07:54:38 AM
 :o :o :o minor is the word for it!!
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: annew on January 26, 2015, 08:18:10 AM
 :D Tatsuo, your narcissus are always on short stems, but that one is extreme! Do you think the stem will get longer?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Gerdk on January 26, 2015, 10:24:23 AM
:o :o :o minor is the word for it!!

 ;)   --- or perhaps  ' Yellow Submarine '

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: ashley on January 26, 2015, 10:32:28 AM
JJA702.305 is flowering here too, at about 5-6 cm.  It's a beauty.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 26, 2015, 01:14:36 PM
Thank you, all :)

:D Tatsuo, your narcissus are always on short stems, but that one is extreme! Do you think the stem will get longer?

Yes I think so, Anne. Probably the stem will get longer.

JJA702.305 is flowering here too, at about 5-6 cm.  It's a beauty.

Ashley, is yours upward facing flower, too?
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: ArnoldT on January 27, 2015, 06:12:19 PM
Couple for today.  Snowed in with about 8 inches. Predicted the "biggest blizzard ever"  Just didn't happen.  Further up the coast it was a true blizzard around Boston.

Close up of the hairs on the tip of the stigma.
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: YT on January 28, 2015, 02:36:00 AM
Narcissus minor, JJA702.305 again. 2 days passed from the previous post. The stem is gradually getting longer as annew mentioned and lying down on soil surface...
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Philip Walker on January 30, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Narcissus romieuxii-I think
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Yann on January 31, 2015, 12:16:37 PM
Narcissus  cordubensis
Title: Re: Narcissus January 2015
Post by: Cyril L on January 31, 2015, 08:19:40 PM
Narcissus cantabricus, initially appeared in a pot of Iris narbutii.  Seems to multiply quickly, had only 3 flowers last year.
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