Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Maggi Young on February 01, 2014, 08:04:02 PM
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Well, this is something new - Tom Mitchell at Evolution Plants is offering an un-named galanthus on Ebay- the winning bidder gets to name it!
..... "We will send a flowering-sized bulb to the highest bidder and will then formally name it for their Valentine. The plant will gradually form a clump, flowering every year around Valentine’s Day, as a perpetual reminder of the most romantic gesture you’ve ever made. "
http://www.evolution-plants.com/valentines.php (http://www.evolution-plants.com/valentines.php)
The Ebay listing hasn't begun yet it is proposed to run from tens days, ending on 13th February ......... watch this space for details.
Edit by maggi : with the demise of Evolution Plants the website /blog has gone.
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It's a nice snowdrop and I cannot think of many reginae-olgae with green on the outers. But I wonder how Tom plans to "formally name" it? There's a Dutch registration scheme for snowdrops but nothing equivalent in the UK and the Dutch scheme has not caught on here. Indeed I had planned to try to register one of my own snowdrop finds but gave up because there did not seem to be a way to submit the information requested electronically.
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The ebay auction to name the 'drop has begun now :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281256963907?ssPageName=STRK:MESCX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1557.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281256963907?ssPageName=STRK:MESCX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1557.l2649)
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I see this is now up to £720 so might beat the eBay record. The things we do for love, eh?
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Alan,
will be certainly a to late Valentine gift. Give me the 720 £, make a nice Valentine moment with it and still will have some money left to buy something in the world of snowdrops.
By the way I think my partner won't be pleased with a to late gift and knowing I spent more than 720£ for one bulb, it may be possible that I may enjoy the rest of the year without a Valentine ;-))
But I'm also very curious how high the price for this special one will raise, :D....
And who it will receive for his valentine?
In my opinion a watercolour of snowdrops seems to be more efficient as valentine present, just make some publicity for my watercolours, ;D
Emma I'm sure you will send us the link with the final bid for that special reginae olgeae.... to be continued
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As Thomson and Morgan made a publicity coup with their bid for G. 'Elizabeth Harrison' so Tom Mitchell of Evolution Plants is scoring a mighty goal with the free publicity this sale is generating!
It may be crazy, but it's working!
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Emma, I'm sure it is,
naughty business mind they have, ;D ;D ;D
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Now £780 and counting. I anticipate a furry of bids at the end.
Very clever marketing.
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I am sorry to say that all this publicity does not help the cause
It will just increase the number of thefts
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what's going on here??
:o :o :o ??? ??? ???
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Lunacy is happening ! £1602 and still half an hour to go - I am very nearly speechless !
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In an old book of Cassell's Classified Quotations:
Money is flat and meant to be piled up (Scottish proverb); (the English proverb is said to be:) Money is round and meant to roll. Personally, money is wanting.
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Sold for £1602!
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The sad thing is that as special snowdrops go, this is nothing out of the ordinary. Somebody was presumably trying to immortalise the name of a loved one but they might only do so as a footnote to history.
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........................I am very nearly speechless !............................
Nah, can't be you Maggi, must be an imposter about :-*
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fools and their money ...
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I agree, Alan. It's a pity the snowdrop isn't more remarkable.
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As a newbie - I find this astonishing!! What is the provenance of the seller? Are they a well established outfit?
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I would say that Evolution Plants are well-established as a specialist plant nursery but with no pedigree in snowdrops. It's a moot point if they actually can name the snowdrop they sold in any official way. It would not surprise me if they are a bit embarrassed by the extreme success of their auction.
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Looking at this from a business and marketing point of view, the extreme success of this auction is going to get Evolution Plants publicity in the British papers and the snowdrop world that couldn't be bought for any amount of money, probably the intention all along. Look at how much publicity Evolution is getting on this forum alone from the sale. In marketing, name recognition is everything!
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Very astute marketing, but pure madness! Just think what that money would get you on the 50:50 plant stall or the nursery stands on saturday!
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Dare I step into this discussion, now that the bidding is over?
To answer the good question about how I plan to 'formally' name the cultivar, I will publish the name and a full description on my website, which is more than adequate to meet the requirements of the ICNCP. Registers are just informal lists of formally named plants. I am waiting to hear from the winner of the auction what the name is to be...
I understand that some galanthophiles will have mixed feelings about the auction but I'd respectfully make the following points.
1. The plant in question is genuinely unique. For me, the emerald green leaves are the stand-out feature. No other G. reginae-olgae selection is remotely like this one. The green tips on the outer segments are variable from year to year and frankly are just the icing on the cake. At any rate, I'm happy to stand behind this particular plant as worthier of a name than most named snowdrops.
2. As a galanthophile I personally feel that anything that increases the public profile of the genus is a good thing. The media love this story, as they should. It's a great 'feel good' news story! What could be more romantic than immortalising your lover by naming a plant for him or her? If the auction makes another dozen galanthophiles, I'm happy.
3. I sympathise with the point raised that highlighting the value of rare snowdrops increases the risk of theft. But what are we to do? Hide our collections behind barbed wire fences and exclude all but the cognoscenti? I have lots of fabulously rare plants growing at my nursery. Like anyone with valuable assets to protect, I have taken many different measures to deter thieves and to catch and convict those who won't be deterred. I'd rather risk losing valuable plants to thieves than hoard them like a miser behind closed doors.
Tom
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I think it's sad that this kind of marketing ploy will reinforce the impression, amongst the gardening public and the general public, that snowdrop growing and collecting is all about the money. The whole thing just strikes me as a tad cynical for my taste.
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The Daily Mail will of course lap it up.
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Well I hope the t**t who paid the price will continue to think it's worth it. A great many lovers or "Valentines" are gone by the end of February. ::)
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What could be more romantic than immortalising your lover by naming a plant for him or her?
Nothing could be more romantic if it becomes a successful plant widely distributed but there is no guarantee that that will happen. Lots of named plants quickly fall by the wayside. Usually this is simply due to lack of popularity but with a new snowdrop, of which there are very few in existence, it could even happen that the entire stock is lost. You have taken on a big responsibility to actually make something of this plant, Tom. It's not easy to deliver on a promise of immortality.
I am by no means an expert on naming snowdrops but I have attended talks by people who are and they say the name has to be published in some distributed print medium for it to count; publication online is not good enough. Personally I deplore this but that is what I have been told. In this instance the name should make the newspapers so if you can slip in a bit of a description then maybe that will be good enough. There is no UK-based registration authority for snowdrops (that I know of) but the Dutch KAVB are trying to build a register. Given the commitment to try to immortalise this plant it seems reasonable to try to register it with the KAVB, even though this is by no means established practice for snowdrops of UK origin.
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Is it the snowdrop that should become famous, or however paid the auction price and gave it to their Valentine? But then the whole point of a Valentine is that only the receiver has some idea who that might be? I think Carolyn's right and so is Tom - so says a wishy-washy liberal! Snowdrops will get a new market, which must be good for those of us who grow and propagate specialist plants if it creates more committed interest amongst gardeners in their diversity. But the more trivial press will just deride the value that we place on these plants and many of its readers will agree. And thieves will prosper as they always have whenever something of value is easy to steal. But not many people will carry on paying £1600 for a snowdrop unless they are financiers more interested in money than plants!
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I think that the real long-term, sustainable answer to snowdrops becoming more popular as garden plants is the much wider availability of really good snowdrops at much more affordable prices, rather than headlines about crazy prices.
Bonkers snowdrop price stories just tend to drive prices higher, encourage snowdrop thefts and lead to more collectors stopping opening their gardens for fear of losing snowdrops to thieves.
And stupidly high prices for the newest snowdrops don't exactly encourage growers and nurserymen to bulk up new 'drops until there's enough to meet demand. Quite the opposite - it takes away the pressure to propagate and bulk up to meet demand and can actually encourage the very slow trickling out of small quantities of new 'drops, in order to maintain high prices.
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Whatever I might think of someone paying that kind of money for a snowdrop I have to say I'm speechless with awe at such a genius marketing move. (Unlike with Maggi, most people would say they won't notice the difference if I go quiet...)
Hats off to you Tom!
For the record - No, I didn't buy it for Susan. Firstly she would prefer a nice meal for Valentines day, secondly she would probably kill me....
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What could be more romantic than immortalising your lover by naming a plant for him or her?
Almost anything.
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I don't think this particular issue has anything to do with snowdrops generally - surely it is a really successful marketing ploy for the Nursery - I can think of no better way to garner so much free publicity - and it has been "hung" on the premise of naming a flower for a loved one - and clearly that premise caught the imagination of all those bidding on the auction.
If I had a nursery that I was trying to get to be as well known as possible I'd be thrilled that I a) came up with the idea and b) absolutely delighted that it took off in such a spectacular fashion.
I am dubious that such daft prices do actually make for more thefts - it is obsessive collectors who pinch prize drops, not some opportunist in a mask and striped jumper and those obsessive thieves will know about rare 'drops regardless of such spectacles on ebay.
Those in the striped jumper brigade are out digging up snowdrops and bluebells in huge numbers from woodlands for a quick profit , not swiping a rare potful, I'm sure. Sadly, those lowlife types are already well in the know- they must be among us- I think we just prefer not to think it.
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I don't think this particular issue has anything to do with snowdrops generally - surely it is a really successful marketing ploy for the Nursery - I can think of no better way to garner so much free publicity - and it has been "hung" on the premise of naming a flower for a loved one - and clearly that premise caught the imagination of all those bidding on the auction.
If I had a nursery that I was trying to get to be as well known as possible I'd be thrilled that I a) came up with the idea and b) absolutely delighted that it took off in such a spectacular fashion.
I am dubious that such daft prices do actually make for more thefts - it is obsessive collectors who pinch prize drops, not some opportunist in a mask and striped jumper and those obsessive thieves will know about rare 'drops regardless of such spectacles on ebay.
Those in the striped jumper brigade are out digging up snowdrops and bluebells in huge numbers from woodlands for a quick profit , not swiping a rare potful, I'm sure. Sadly, those lowlife types are already well in the know- they must be among us- I think we just prefer not to think it.
Well said.
Having been in business for a large chunk of my life, it came across as a pure marketing ploy, and a very clever one at that.
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I appreciate that this was a marketing ploy to get publicity for the nursery, and a successful one.
I was just looking at it also as part of a continuing trend of sensationalist publicity around snowdrops and trying to make some suggestions for how the popularity of snowdrops as good garden plants could more practically be promoted than sensationalising them in the media, eg by increasing their availability and bringing prices down to a more affordable level.
I'm not sure how it can't have anything to do with snowdrops generally, but if it doesn't then I suppose I'd better shut up as my points have no relevance here.
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Sorry if my comments have offended you, Martin. I quite agree with your ideas about how snowdrops might be better promoted as garden plants - I meant that this was a one off event that has little bearing on the wider sphere of snowdrops as garden plants - after all, the market for personalised plants at £1600 a throw is not a large one.
Pretty hard not to be sensationalist about a small bulb selling for that price, though, isn't it? The press have livings to make as does everyone - and this is a godsend to them, of course.
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The big question is if people begin to place a higher value on plants and the environment than perhaps they do on high horsepower cars and even high horsepower electronics (however much fun these are to play with). If gardening becomes more important to more people as a result of Tom's clever ploy then that can't be bad. A lot of the press might be better off as gardeners though.
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I can think of no better way to garner so much free publicity - and it has been "hung" on the premise of naming a flower for a loved one
If it really was free publicity I would be applauding loudly too, but it's not free; it's subsidised to the tune of some £1,600 by the poor mug who bought the snowdrop.
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Nobody forced that bid- there were others chasing the bid- nobody forces anyone to pay a price at auction - people choose to do it. If the winning price is not one we might individually agree with then we can have our own opinion about that, but no-one HAS to pay an auction price - any more than someone HAS to buy a huge gas-guzzling car to drive 500 yards to the grocery shop - but it is their choice so to do - it's my choice to have a flower garden and not a vegetable garden - world is full of choices and I'm glad I'm free to make some.
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It's people's choices to spend what they do , nobody makes them
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Still a hell of a lot of money for one bulb of what looks like a not-hugely-fantastic snowdrop. Hard to argue that it's great value for money when you could have bought 30 or more superb rare snowdrops for that. Maybe the seller might consider handing over some of the windfall to charity?
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Hello all, When I posted my first G. woronowii Elizabeth Harrison my main aim was that someone would appreciate quite a unique snowdrop never in my mind did I expect such a high price however it did help me and the Harrison's to employ help in their garden ( both around 80) since then we have sent some bulbs at a more reasonable price across Europe a great thing to share what we have and sure make a little bit of money, unfortunately I must survive in this inhospitable politically driven world, cheers Ian the Christie kind
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Good luck to them.Let just hope it's not Fanny Chmelar or Andreas Wank(from the Olympic's) ,because i really wouldn't want to make them two immortal.. ;D ;D ;D
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Oh, I don't know though :D
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Hello all, When I posted my first G. woronowii Elizabeth Harrison my main aim was that someone would appreciate quite a unique snowdrop never in my mind did I expect such a high price however it did help me and the Harrison's to employ help in their garden ( both around 80) since then we have sent some bulbs at a more reasonable price across Europe a great thing to share what we have and sure make a little bit of money, unfortunately I must survive in this inhospitable politically driven world, cheers Ian the Christie kind
Elizabeth Harrison is a great snowdrop, Ian, and you have indeed been very selfless in letting bulbs go for more reasonable prices than you could perhaps have got for them if money had been your sole motivation.
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Also, although Thompson and Morgan paid a very hefty price for the first EH bulb, they themselves got a great bargain in all the resultant publicity they received - no doubt one of the reasons they were so determined to get it regardless of cost. And now we seem to have moved into another order of magnitude compared to the EH auction.
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Amidst all the tut-tutting about Evolution Plants
1. the market price is the price someone is prepared to pay. As an example, twenty-five years ago I was offered the entire recorded works of the Spanish violinist Sarasate on six single-sided G&T 78s at the apparently-enormous price of £1,200. That set of records has not appeared again for 25 years.
2. any business is entitled to market its products any way it wants within the law and codes of practice.
3. for Evolution Plants to prosper (through acute marketing or whatever) is in the interests of all keen gardeners since their mission is to bring rare or unusual plants into contact with gardeners who want to grow something different to the boring ordinary-ness of the likes of Wyevale.
And no, it wasn't me.
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Steve, I didn't think I was tut-tutting. I thought I was raising some interesting points worthy of discussion. But since I've been told that this whole business has nothing to do with snowdrops generally and that I've been tut-tutting, I think I'll leave now, before I offend or upset anyone else. I really didn't intend to cause anyone offence but it seems I have.
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Hello again, well thanks to everyone for their views I now bow out of this debate with this thought my wish was especially plant related not just about the money , cheers Ian
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Steve, I didn't think I was tut-tutting. I thought I was raising some interesting points worthy of discussion. But since I've been told that this whole business has nothing to do with snowdrops generally and that I've been tut-tutting, I think I'll leave now, before I offend or upset anyone else. I really didn't intend to cause anyone offence but it seems I have.
Hi Martin, I haven't seen you this year yet, so Happy New Year :o
We've just had a hurricane style NGS garden open. 14 people weathered the storm and it was lovely to see them all. Wow, what a year :)
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Hello again, well thanks to everyone for their views I now bow out of this debate with this thought my wish was especially plant related not just about the money , cheers Ian
Ian, I hope I didn't give you the impression that I thought you were concerned just about money re E. Harrison. Quite the opposite.
I'm now bowing out too. I find it upsetting when these kinds of discussions about snowdrops get so acrimonious and I feel like I'm losing friends over it.
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But this was almost certainly a gift intended for a loved one, not an informed decision made by the ultimate owner.
Just imagine that as you sat down to dinner tonight your other half presented you with that snowdrop and revealed that it was they who bought it and have named it after you as a gesture of love. Ask yourself honestly if you would be pleased or appalled.
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Umm, It's been very wet in Devon today ::) boys :-\
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Hi Martin, I haven't seen you this year yet, so Happy New Year :o
We've just had a hurricane style NGS garden open. 14 people weathered the storm and it was lovely to see them all. Wow, what a year :)
Hi Jo
Haven't seen you for ages. Happy New Year to you too. I'll be at the Shaftesbury thing tomorrow. If you're going I'll see you there. If not, I'll have to try to make it to one of your open days one of these years.
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See you tomorrow Martin, it'll be fun to see everyone there :-* :-* :-*
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P.S. I'm not blaming anyone else for the way these snowdrop discussions get out of hand when I wade in. I think it must be me. I need to be less outspoken and argumentative on what is meant to be a plant forum. My apologies to all. :)
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:D :D
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We'll see if snowdrops are indeed a girl's best friend by midnight. Keep an eye on the homicide section of your local paper.
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Steve, I didn't think I was tut-tutting. I thought I was raising some interesting points worthy of discussion. But since I've been told that this whole business has nothing to do with snowdrops generally and that I've been tut-tutting, I think I'll leave now, before I offend or upset anyone else. I really didn't intend to cause anyone offence but it seems I have.
Martin, wasn't aimed at you. And no offence caused I think. Keep contributing. Better a Baxendales Late than a Baxendales Never.
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Lol, Steve. I really did laugh out loud at that comment (although I guess it's a Galanthophile's in-joke).
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Lol, Steve. I really did laugh out loud at that comment (although I guess it's a Galanthophile's in-joke).
8)
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3. I sympathise with the point raised that highlighting the value of rare snowdrops increases the risk of theft. But what are we to do? Hide our collections behind barbed wire fences and exclude all but the cognoscenti? I have lots of fabulously rare plants growing at my nursery. Like anyone with valuable assets to protect, I have taken many different measures to deter thieves and to catch and convict those who won't be deterred. I'd rather risk losing valuable plants to thieves than hoard them like a miser behind closed doors.
Tom
One knock-on effect of all this is on large gardens which are open regularly with snowdrop collections and which cannot provide the security that a nursery can.
Tonight I have just been looking for opening details of three 'stately home' gardens near here which have opened with special snowdrop events that I have been to in the past. One is not opening now until the end of March and the other two have removed all mention of their snowdrop collections from their websites. Such a shame.
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Some of Anne's fascinating 'yellow' hybrids would make wonderful gifts I would imagine - especially since they may have taken a decade to produce and increase. There is an interesting contrast here, which Ian intimates, about the craftsmanship of growing and selling plants and the hype. I don't suppose the two can ever be mutually exclusive but they are both important sides of the same coin, and I go with the first more than the second, but as a result will remain poor! (But also there is more in the plant world than snowdrops).
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I have heard the story- though I cannot pass it on at the moment - of the purchaser of Tom's valentine snowdrop - it is a delightful story that is truly heartwarming and rather moving.
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The story is now on the Facebook page of Evolution Plants https://www.facebook.com/Evolutionplant (https://www.facebook.com/Evolutionplant) . I'm not sure if anyone can read this or if you need a Facebook login.
The snowdrop will be named 'Peter Gooding'.
It is a heart-warming story (provided Tom Mitchell does not intend to pocket the extravagant sum he made on the auction and I'm pretty sure he does not). As he writes, it was to gain publicity for Evolution Plants and for snowdrops.
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I will take the liberty of repeating Tom's facebook post here -
Galanthus reginae-olgae subsp. vernalis 'Peter Gooding'
Tom writes:
"Shall I let you into a little secret? I loathe Valentine's Day. In fact, truth be told, I dislike birthdays, Christmas, Mother's Day, New Year's Eve and every other occasion on which it is decreed that I must be in love/the centre of attention/eating turkey/grateful for having survived childhood, etc.
So it was with some misgivings that I entered the Valentine's business by auctioning the right to name a new snowdrop cultivar. Needs must, however, and I hoped to draw attention to Evolution Plants and to the genus Galanthus, with which I am so besotted. I am really thrilled, therefore, that the winning bid was placed by a lady, Caroline Mabbs, for the most romantic of all possible reasons. She has graciously agreed that her name and story can be revealed.
Caroline's father, Peter Gooding is 79 years old. His father died when Peter was a boy and was buried on Peter's 13th birthday. The family had no money to buy flowers for the funeral and all that Peter now remembers about that sad day is the snowdrops growing in the graveyard. In recent years Peter has taken to planting a new snowdrop in his garden each year, in memory of his lamented father. Caroline wanted to give her dad a plant that will forever be in flower on the anniversary of her grandfather's death.
Caroline concluded her story with these words: 'So the purchase is not about romance but it is about love - my love for my dad and his love for his dad ...'. If you ask me, that's about the most romantic sentence ever written, without any of the saccharine faux-romance of Valentine's Day.
I hope that Galanthus 'Peter Gooding' will enter the select list of must-have snowdrops. It certainly deserves to."
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What an interesting debate!
My view would be that the primary driver here is not the snowdrop itself, but some sort of deep yearning for immortality. It seems to be a part of the human condition.
Similarly there are at least a dozen ‘name a star’ websites on line.. Even tho’ it is quite obvious that all of the significant/recognisable heavenly bodies were named AGES ago.
The most ancient comparable offer I could think of are the biblical ones like ‘I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.’ Of course, in all such deals, ones view of it is coloured by ones assessment of the credibility/reliability/authenticity of the service provider!!
Tim DH
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You don't need a facebook account to see Evolution Plants' facebook page. Just click on the link:
https://www.facebook.com/Evolutionplant?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/Evolutionplant?fref=ts)
And since it's publicity for the nursery that Tom is after, here's a link to the nursery website:
http://www.evolution-plants.com/uk/ (http://www.evolution-plants.com/uk/)
P.S. There's a very good facebook group for snowdrop lovers started by Emma, which is well worth joining if you're on facebook (or maybe worth joining facebook in order to become a member of the group). Link here to the group (not sure how much people without facebook accounts can see):
https://www.facebook.com/groups/160399837333841/?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/groups/160399837333841/?fref=ts)
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Just tried it, and you do need to have a facebook account to see the facebook snowdrop group page. For people with a facebook account, click the link below while signed in to facebook or sign in and search for Snowdrops and Galanthophiles to find the page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/160399837333841/?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/groups/160399837333841/?fref=ts)
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Good stuff Martin - we are just discovering, belatedly, how valuable Facebook and Twitter are in stimulating more interest in the things we do personally; and how much time you can potentially waste glued to a computer screen, unless there is actually some sensible communication going on. Well there always is, but we do often have different views of what sensible is, and I have to say this Forum has moments of great brilliance in making things happen, which says a lot for the SRGC in general. It has certainly been very valuable to me personally.
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.......My view would be that the primary driver here is not the snowdrop itself, but some sort of deep yearning for immortality. It seems to be a part of the human condition.......
Tim DH
The definitive statement on this occurs in Jean-Luc Godard’s film À bout de souffle:
Patricia Franchini (Jean Seberg) -
“What is your greatest ambition in life?”
The novelist Parvulesco (Jean Pierre Melville) -
“To become immortal... and then die.”
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Just tried it, and you do need to have a facebook account to see the facebook snowdrop group page. For people with a facebook account, click the link below while signed in to facebook or sign in and search for Snowdrops and Galanthophiles to find the page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/160399837333841/?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/groups/160399837333841/?fref=ts)
Thanks Martin for the shout out .
I rember the page just being me for ages ! Now we have over 350 members from around the world and a fair few from here !
I might be biased but I think if Facebook is used properly it is a force for good , I enjoy it . I like to think it's worth joining for the snowdrop page alone , but again I might be biased ;)
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I believe that twitter and facebook have their uses for all sorts of things but they can never provide the sort of resource that builds here in the form.
ANYONE can see these pages, no need for any registration, fully searchable, a cast of thousands, with access to some of the greatest plant experts in the world and the chance to see and discuss just about any plant. The chance to add to an evergrowing solid resource is unbeatable from where I stand !
Look at this thread - it's attracted wearing on for 1490 readers already - and if folk do register so they can post too, there are no adverts - just a huge collection of plant lovers. 8)
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Maggi - having just joined up here at the forum - I can certainly vouch for the wonderful resource that is continuously being built on. Lots of knowledgeable people and plenty who have made me most welcome - despite all my newbie questions :)
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Thank you very much, Simon - the beauty of this place is that experts can discuss and newbies can ask - all at the same place - sometimes it's the other way round!
Basic point is , we are all about sharing. Glad you are finding that for yourself!
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I will take the liberty of repeating Tom's facebook post here -
Galanthus reginae-olgae subsp. vernalis 'Peter Gooding'
Tom writes:
"Shall I let you into a little secret? I loathe Valentine's Day. In fact, truth be told, I dislike birthdays, Christmas, Mother's Day, New Year's Eve and every other occasion on which it is decreed that I must be in love/the centre of attention/eating turkey/grateful for having survived childhood, etc.
So it was with some misgivings that I entered the Valentine's business by auctioning the right to name a new snowdrop cultivar. Needs must, however, and I hoped to draw attention to Evolution Plants and to the genus Galanthus, with which I am so besotted. I am really thrilled, therefore, that the winning bid was placed by a lady, Caroline Mabbs, for the most romantic of all possible reasons. She has graciously agreed that her name and story can be revealed.
Caroline's father, Peter Gooding is 79 years old. His father died when Peter was a boy and was buried on Peter's 13th birthday. The family had no money to buy flowers for the funeral and all that Peter now remembers about that sad day is the snowdrops growing in the graveyard. In recent years Peter has taken to planting a new snowdrop in his garden each year, in memory of his lamented father. Caroline wanted to give her dad a plant that will forever be in flower on the anniversary of her grandfather's death.
Caroline concluded her story with these words: 'So the purchase is not about romance but it is about love - my love for my dad and his love for his dad ...'. If you ask me, that's about the most romantic sentence ever written, without any of the saccharine faux-romance of Valentine's Day.
I hope that Galanthus 'Peter Gooding' will enter the select list of must-have snowdrops. It certainly deserves to."
Must admit the whole thing had me in grumpy (cynical) old man mode... until I read that, a great & very touching story, hope the drop thrives.
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As various people have correctly pointed out, with subtexts ranging from admiration to abhorrence, the point of the auction was to raise the profile of Evolution Plants. It wasn't 'cynical', unless it is cynical to want to promote a business into which you've sunk six years of your life, your passion and every penny you've saved.
Of course the auction courted controversy. That was the intention. I have enjoyed listening to the debate and am, as Maggi points out, grateful for all the free publicity.
I feel extremely strongly, however, about one theme that runs through a lot of the comments. That is the unsubstantiated assumption that the buyer must be (a) rich (b) stupid and (c) in the words of Lesley Cox 'a t**t'.
The snowdrop is now formally named (and, pace various suggestions, a full description published on a public website is enough to validate a name - read the rules) Galanthus 'Peter Gooding'. Here is the story that the winning bidder, Caroline Mabbs, told me.
Caroline's father, Peter Gooding, is 79 years old. His dad died when Peter was a boy and was buried on Peter's 13th birthday, in late January. The family had no money to buy flowers for the funeral and Peter's only memory of the day is of the snowdrops growing around the graveyard. In recent years Peter has taken to planting a new snowdrop variety in his garden each year, in memory of his father. Caroline wanted to do this for her dad - it had nothing to do with the merits of the plant .Caroline concluded her email to me with the following words: 'so the purchase is not about romance but it is about love - my love for my dad and his love for his dad...'.
I put it to you that it is unwise to make assumptions about a person's motives without any evidence. Caroline Mabbs appears to me to be a genuinely lovely woman, motivated solely by love for her dad. Her purchase was covered today, incidentally, in the Daily Express. The Mail didn't want it. Peter Gooding was quoted in the paper, saying 'the bulb was the best present of his life and "a real lump in the throat moment"'.
Best,
Tom
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Maggi - having just joined up here at the forum - I can certainly vouch for the wonderful resource that is continuously being built on. Lots of knowledgeable people and plenty who have made me most welcome - despite all my newbie questions :)
Newbie questions are welcomed by all the forumists Simon. After all, we were all newbies at one time. :)
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Tom I really don't think it's helpful to be saying that someone who contributed to this thread is a t**t. I think it would be best if you were, in the interests of politeness, to edit that out of your comment as it could cause offence.
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Martin, Point taken and accepted. Please accept my apologies for losing the plot. I took offence on behalf of the wonderful lady who won the auction, who isn't a galanthophile, had never bought a snowdrop in her life until last week, spent a great deal of money on an immensely romantic gesture and doesn't deserve to be pilloried on a forum she's never heard of. Your comments were reasonable, well-argued and polite and I have no quarrel with them. I disagree with some of what you said but in an entirely collegial way. Cheers, Tom
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I believe Caroline Mabb's gift to her Dad, and also for the memory of the Grandfather she never knew- is immensely touching. I confess I felt that it was a lot of money to pay for a "valentine" of the "usual" sort - but this story is one of deep love an affection over the generations and it brought a lump to my throat.
Can anyone tell me where in the Express the piece is, please- I cannot find it.
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Thanks Tom. Probably best if we all put it behind us. Water under the bridge ... something we're getting a lot of down this way.
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Nice story and thanks to Tim Harberd for the quote.
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With hindsight, I guess (sometimes sensational) national publicity for snowdrop growing and collecting goes hand in hand with the slow, hard slog for nurserymen of trying to meet demand in a genus which is so slow to propagate clonally, and can sometimes make the nurseryman's lot that little bit easier. I'm seeing it mainly from the buyer's perspective I suppose.
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As someone who has been breeding and chipping snowdrops on an amateur basis for more years than I care to remember, I do appreciate the frustrations of nurserymen who are trying to propagate the newest and rarest varieties to satisfy a seemingly insatiable demand. I know how frustratingly slow it can be to bulk up something new, and I'm lucky that I'm not having to do it for a living but just for the fun of it.
To go off on another tack, it might solve a lot of problems for breeders, finders of new beauties and buyers alike if someone could perfect micropropagation for galanthus.
Does anyone out there have any news on that front? Maybe I should start a new thread on the subject to try to garner information on who, if anyone, is currently working on microprop for galanthus, and what success may or may not be being achieved.
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I believe that twitter and facebook have their uses for all sorts of things but they can never provide the sort of resource that builds here in the form.
ANYONE can see these pages, no need for any registration, fully searchable, a cast of thousands, with access to some of the greatest plant experts in the world and the chance to see and discuss just about any plant. The chance to add to an evergrowing solid resource is unbeatable from where I stand !
Look at this thread - it's attracted wearing on for 1490 readers already - and if folk do register so they can post too, there are no adverts - just a huge collection of plant lovers. 8)
Maggi, I hope you didn't get the impression that I was suggesting the facebook galanthus group as an alternative to this forum, because I certainly wasn't. I was flagging it up as an additional and complimentary forum for snowdrop chat, not a challenger. Much of what is put up and discussed there (photos and chat) is the same stuff that appears here and often from the same contributors, just subtly different, sometimes taking different directions, sometimes the same. Vive la difference. N'est pas?
Seriously though, the facebook group doesn't pretend to be a resource and forum on the same scale as this one. But it is fun to hop from one to the other, like seeing the same group of people in different pubs with slightly different ambiences (but without having to keep forking out for rounds of drinks).
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Mark Smyth reported on micropropagation trials at a university (I think) but I don't know if those ever came to anything. I presume Thomson and Morgan will attempt something of the sort with their 'Elizabeth Harrison'.
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No worries Martin, I didn't imagine you were suggesting such a thing.
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Mark Smyth reported on micropropagation trials at a university (I think) but I don't know if those ever came to anything. I presume Thomson and Morgan will attempt something of the sort with their 'Elizabeth Harrison'.
Yes he did, but we haven't heard much about it since. T&M may be working on it behind the scenes if they're serious about selling rare snowdrops, or they may have just been satisfied with the free publicity they got over the auction and not be taking it any further. I hope it's the former rather than the latter. Maybe I'll contact them and ask.
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No worries Martin, I didn't imagine you were suggesting such a thing.
I thought you most likely wouldn't think that, but just wanted you to be sure that it wasn't what I was suggesting. :-*
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Does anyone out there have any news on that front? Maybe I should start a new thread on the subject to try to garner information on who, if anyone, is currently working on microprop for galanthus, and what success may or may not be being achieved.
I vaguely recall mention of problems in growing them on?
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What is chipping and twin scaling if not a sort of micropropagation? As a small specialist nurseryman I am ambivalent about propagating plants up in such large numbers because at the end of the day it actually reduces the 'value' of plants and makes it harder for small scale growers to do their own thing. On the other hand I spent amongst the most enjoyable time of my life working at John Innes where scientists were researching just these sorts of things, but primarily for improving the understanding and yields of food crops, and quality of husbandry (isn't that a good word when you view it's different meanings!). It seems to me we just all do our best on the basis of our own experience, and getting people together works best of all, which seems to have happened here in some curious way?
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Well I guess I too had better apologise, for calling someone - anyone - who pays that kind of money for a little bulb, a t**t. It was meant tongue in cheek, a joke and wasn't intended to cause offence, which it apparently did. As usual, I forgot to put the appropriate smiley at the end of my post. It has been suggested that I may be offended at evolutionplantsman's response to my post. I wasn't, and in fact had not even noticed it until it was pointed out.
edit by maggi : I think it is fair to point out that at the time when comments were being made about the size of the price paid, people were not commenting about the actual purchaser - who was then unknown- but about the shock at the possibility of someone paying that price for a Valentine's gift for a lover - when there is every possibility that such a relationship might not be permanent - there was no malice intended and I have yet to hear from anyone who does not regard the story of Ms Mabbs and her gift for her Father as a touching tale of familial affection.
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I took offence on behalf of the wonderful lady who won the auction, who isn't a galanthophile, had never bought a snowdrop in her life until last week, spent a great deal of money on an immensely romantic gesture and doesn't deserve to be pilloried on a forum she's never heard of.
Having heard the full story at the weekend Tom, I think that those who heard you speak would all agree that it was immensely romantic and that G.'Peter Gooding' has one of the most heartwarming and poignant stories of any attached to it. I hope the story is not lost over the years and the snowdrop does well for them. Thanks for a most enjoyable talk (and we could hear you at the back ;)).
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What is chipping and twin scaling if not a sort of micropropagation? As a small specialist nurseryman I am ambivalent about propagating plants up in such large numbers because at the end of the day it actually reduces the 'value' of plants and makes it harder for small scale growers to do their own thing. On the other hand I spent amongst the most enjoyable time of my life working at John Innes where scientists were researching just these sorts of things, but primarily for improving the understanding and yields of food crops, and quality of husbandry (isn't that a good word when you view it's different meanings!). It seems to me we just all do our best on the basis of our own experience, and getting people together works best of all, which seems to have happened here in some curious way?
Indeed, Tim, chipping and twin scaling can be seen as a kind of micropropagation, probably somewhere in between microprop and a more traditional propagation form like taking cuttings, as it usually involves taking bulb material with a bit of the basal plate, which equates to the stem of a non-bulbous plant.
Recently people have of course found that bulblets will grow from pieces of bulb material other than a fragment of basal plate - i.e. further up the chip or twin scale, or on rings or tops of bulbs with no basal plate attached at all. Which suggests that full micropropagation, using much smaller amounts of bulb material without necessarily any basal plate is feasible. And some experimentation has been done on that. But as far as I know there is no commercial set-up operational as yet.
As to whether it helps the nurserymen, I suppose yes it's swings and roundabouts. There would be trade offs - prices would come down but then more people would be able to buy. As Joe Sharman apparently once said (and I apologise if I've heard it wrong and am misquoting him) "we don't need people buying more snowdrops so much as we need more people buying snowdrops".
The scenario I was contemplating was a microprop lab somewhere developing protocols for galanthus microprop and offering a service to nurserymen to microprop rare varieties for them, which the nurserymen then sell to their customers. Not one big nursery cornering the market by developing microprop just for their own exclusive use.
It's not the whole answer, I agree. But it could be part of the answer to the shortage of bulbs of new varieties available to buy and help both the nurserymen and the customers.
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Indeed, Tim, chipping and twin scaling can be seen as a kind of micropropagation, probably somewhere in between microprop and a more traditional propagation form like taking cuttings, as it usually involves taking bulb material with a bit of the basal plate, which equates to the stem of a non-bulbous plant.
Recently people have of course found that bulblets will grow from pieces of bulb material other than a fragment of basal plate - i.e. further up the chip or twin scale, or on rings or tops of bulbs with no basal plate attached at all. Which suggests that full micropropagation, using much smaller amounts of bulb material without necessarily any basal plate is feasible. And some experimentation has been done on that. But as far as I know there is no commercial set-up operational as yet.
As to whether it helps the nurserymen, I suppose yes it's swings and roundabouts. There would be trade offs - prices would come down but then more people would be able to buy. As Joe Sharman apparently once said (and I apologise if I've heard it wrong and am misquoting him) "we don't need people buying more snowdrops so much as we need more people buying snowdrops".
The scenario I was contemplating was a microprop lab somewhere developing protocols for galanthus microprop and offering a service to nurserymen to microprop rare varieties for them, which the nurserymen then sell to their customers. Not one big nursery cornering the market by developing microprop just for their own exclusive use.
It's not the whole answer, I agree. But it could be part of the answer to the shortage of bulbs of new varieties available to buy and help both the nurserymen and the customers.
This does beg the question, as to whether people have tried to micro-prop various Galanthus? Did I hear a story about Wendy's Gold being nearly lost to micro-prop or did I get wrong end of the stick?
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Most of the original stock of Wendy's Gold was lost in The Netherlands during propagation, due to fungal disease I think. It's possible they were trying micro-prop or they may just have been twin scaling. Not sure.
Mark Smyth was keeping us updated a while back on attempts to microprop Wendy's Gold in Northern Ireland but we've heard nothing recently about how successful it was.
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I have also heard it said that the Dutch company that bought 27 of the 30 original bulbs of Wendy's Gold went through some takeover or structural change which caused interest in the project to be lost and that is most probably why fungal disease was allowed to take hold.
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If chipping causes some stability issues in Galanthus such as South Hayes (which can revert back to almost white) then surely micropropagation would cause further issues?
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If chipping causes some stability issues in Galanthus such as South Hayes (which can revert back to almost white) then surely micropropagation would cause further issues?
That's one of the issues that needs to be looked at by experimentation. But I think the problem with South Hayes was down to it being some kind of a chimera. Snowdrops with the kind of markings found in Trym, Trym offspring and South Hayes might not be suitable for microprop, but snowdrops without those kinds of outer markings could be fine. Virescent snowdrops, for example, could be okay, as would yellows and most other more normal types.
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I totally agree Martin that a lot of experimentation is still needed. No doubt there's plenty going on but it seems to be a slow process. One thing's for certain, we won't know unless we try. I can't remember who, but I'm sure one of our Dutch friends was doing lots of work gathering data on the contribution of viruses to variations in snowdrops, particularly to one's with green outers. There seemed to be a good correlation between the two. But it may not be mutually exclusive and may in fact be a number of factors, including chimera. Time may tell.
I do hope that T&M are trying to micropropogate Elizabeth Harrison and it wasn't just a cheap (relatively speaking) publicity stunt. It would be great if this snowdrop could become available to the wider public as it's a beauty and a very robust, garden worthy snowdrop. It would be good if we could get some feedback on that, if anyone has a contact within T&M?
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Narcissus tete-a-tete is produced in vast quantities commercially. I found a report investigating its suitability for commercial growth in the UK here: http://www.hdc.org.uk/sites/default/files/research_papers/BOF%2023%20Final%20Report.pdf (http://www.hdc.org.uk/sites/default/files/research_papers/BOF%2023%20Final%20Report.pdf) Tete-a-tete bulbs are comparable in size to those of a snowdrop so I don't see why it would not be possible to do the same with snowdrops.
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It was a lab off New Forge Lane in Belfast that was micro propping Wendys Gold for the Dutch. I have lost all photos except for one that I took on my visit there. It was amazing to see 100s if not 1000s of clear plastic pots filled with the bulbs in the walk in 'incubator'. I have sent several emails to the lab to find out what happened but I have never got a reply
This photo, of a pot I was given, dates back to March 2006. Mine died from a fungal attack probably due to me taking the lid off for the photo. I also have a thought that I dropped the pot
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This photo, of a pot I was given, dates back to March 2006. Mine died from a fungal attack probably due to me taking the lid off for the photo. I also have a thought that I dropped the pot
Lol unlucky Mark :)
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A Dutch company may now be bulking them up via chipping, having obtained enough starting stock by microprop (which should also have cleaned up the bulbs disease wise).
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"The world's most valuable snowdrop is now formally Galanthus 'Peter Gooding', named for her father by Caroline Mabbs".
[attachimg=1]
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I've stared very hard at the picture in the newspaper article but I cannot for the life of me actually see the snowdrop. Is it there Maggi?
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It's a poor photo, Alan, I was sent the picture by email - I presume it's in the pot!
Tom's photos of the plant from the ebay listing, copyright of Evolution Plants .....
Galanthus 'Peter Gooding'
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The trouble with Tom's photos is that they appear to show three different plants. I was curious to know which 'Peter Gooding' Peter Gooding ended up with.
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No worries Martin, I didn't imagine you were suggesting such a thing.
The Facebook page isn't meant to replace the forum ! We could never do that ! A lot of the people are the same as on here , we sometimes have the same conversation ! I just find it slightly easier to upload my photos onto Facebook
It's meant to be fun
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Dear Em, I would never want to interfere with any fun -that's soooo not my style!
It's just that photos and discussion HERE is there for everyone and is searchable for the photos etc - and so it's a lasting basis for snowdrops - and other plants, of course and so I want to ensure as full a covering as possible so that the most possible info is available to the widest audience.
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That's what I like so much about this Forum too (and the SRGC website in general) because you can go back and renew threads and get a more historical perspective on gardening, which is also what a scientific education teaches - it makes for very solid foundations. And the archive of information from Ian's Bulb log and from Jim Archibald is really unequalled. It is the internet at its very best. (Perhaps occasionally a little seriousness creeps in? - but I did love Maggi's example of putting snow chains on a car and Cliff's reply!).
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The forum was originally thought of to make place where we could come together to discuss our plants and bring the far flung SRGC members closer together, especially those without a local group - it has become that and much more besides. I think everyone here, be they amateur grower or professional botanist has a real LOVE of plants and a thirst for knowledge - and how better to feed that need than by having fun in the company of friends - as Mary Poppins (!) said, "a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down". The level of expertise available to answer queries here is quite marvelous and the range and quality of plant notes shared is matchless. The place is worth it for the plant photo records alone! I'm a fan, what can I tell you - it is a great joy to me when others share the experience.
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The Facebook page isn't meant to replace the forum ! We could never do that ! A lot of the people are the same as on here , we sometimes have the same conversation ! I just find it slightly easier to upload my photos onto Facebook
It's meant to be fun
And it is fun, Em. Great fun.
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And it is fun, Em. Great fun.
Great fun ? What, you mean there's cake? :o :o :o
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Tom Mitchell is a guest on BBC Radio 4's 'Midweek' at 9 am today, 19th February.
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Great fun ? What, you mean there's cake? :o :o :o
Oh yes, CHOCOLATE cake. ;D
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Oh yes, CHOCOLATE cake. ;D
Yes, that's QUITE fun - but is there coffee walnut cake? Really GOOD coffee walnut cake?
We heard Tom on Radio 4 this morning - he came across well I thought - but not sure the treatment of the item would set the heather on fire, as we say up here. So very hard to get any "meeejaa" (media) types to understand anything really!
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It's a poor photo, Alan, I was sent the picture by email - I presume it's in the pot!
Tom's photos of the plant from the ebay listing, copyright of Evolution Plants .....
Galanthus 'Peter Gooding'
Totally underwhelmed :o
I seem to remember that Melvyn showed something similar during his talk at Shaftesbury.
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I know what you mean Arthur. But what was really bought was the opportunity to name a snowdrop. Being a little colour-blind I don't really trust my colour vision. Are the leaves really unusually green as described? They look a bit that way in the first photograph but very glaucous in the third one.
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Just caught up on this thread - goodness what a commotion! It was a brilliant piece of marketing by a very canny nurseryman. No-one forces people to pay 'silly' prices on ebay or anywhere else, so there should be no tutting allowed! The same applies to Elizabeth Harrison - T&M got a priceless bit of publicity relatively cheaply. (It's also a very nice snowdrop!)
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The snowdrop is now formally named (and, pace various suggestions, a full description published on a public website is enough to validate a name - read the rules) ...
In case you do want to read the ICNCP Rules referred to, there is an online copy here http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf (http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf)
I've always been told that article 25.1 d says that publication is not effected by electronic media. I had taken this on trust hitherto but now I have read it for myself.
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Elizabeth Harrison - T&M got a priceless bit of publicity relatively cheaply. (It's also a very nice snowdrop!)
That's what I said, and I don't think anyone would argue with it, especially that it's a great snowdrop that deserved to go for a high price on ebay.
Unfortunately for me, I discovered just yesterday (when investigating its very late appearance this year) that the one and only rare 'drop in my entire collection that was got by narcissus fly last year was.......drum roll.......yes, ELIZABETH HARRISON, which I only bloody well received last year!!!
How the hell do the evil little things KNOW!!!??? Just a rotting hollowed-out husk with no basal plate, and a fat grub! Not even enough left to rescue a scrap for chipping. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Bad luck, Martin. Talk about expensive tastes, eh?
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Little b******s!!!
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In case you do want to read the ICNCP Rules referred to, there is an online copy here http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf (http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf)
I've always been told that article 25.1 d says that publication is not effected by electronic media. I had taken this on trust hitherto but now I have read it for myself.
That's not quite the whole story - electronic publication is sufficient, providing that printed copies are lodge with certain libraries. For some " more formalised electronic publications, such a s those with ISSN listing, those papers are automatically digitally "harvested " by the major libraries, so I think that is a different issue.
The "rules " are only an issue for naming if one wishes to comply with the ICNCP naming conventions. Should one wish to apply for Plant Breeders' Rights, for instance, then the "rule" there are at time quite other than the ICNCP ones, so, really, one can take one's choice.
'Copyrighting' can often be a very simple process - depends on the level of protection or formality one wishes to achieve.
When one considers the vast number of plants around given a cultivar name without any such formal process such as those mentioned above, and which are perfectly successfully recognised as they are passed around or in commerce - I venture to suggest that "following the rules" may be something of a red herring. ;)
Nearly forgot another method : plants brought before the RHS committees, such as the Joint Rock Cttee, will, if considered good enough for an award ( for instance Galanthus 'Diggory' was given an Award of Merit in 2009 ) be given that award "subject to the application of a cultivar name'. Such a plant will be fully described and the name approved, according to the conventions. That's a pretty formal description for those plants, anyway.
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Quote from: Maggi Young on Today at 01:45:54 PM
The green markings are far from stable in such 'drops as Green Light, aren't they?
From Alan_b :
I'm quite insulted, Maggi ;) . 'Green Light' rarely fails to produce green mark on the outer petals. Although the size of the mark can be variable it is very rarely absent. All but one of the flowers in my photo have a green mark on the outers, although in some cases it is tiny and right at the tip so not readily visible in the picture. The exception is the flower that has struggled to produce the requisite number of petals; presumably an immature bulb.
What you say about the instability of green marks is true of some other inferior brands.
;D ;D ;D Quite so , Alan!
.... it is tiny and right at the tip so not readily visible in the picture
If we take this as read here, then might the same not be true of the photos of 'Peter Gooding'? I think we are all agreed that photos, without great care to show all parts etc, are not a sure fire way of making a determination ::)
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That's what I like so much about this Forum too (and the SRGC website in general) because you can go back and renew threads and get a more historical perspective on gardening, which is also what a scientific education teaches - it makes for very solid foundations. And the archive of information from Ian's Bulb log and from Jim Archibald is really unequalled. It is the internet at its very best. (Perhaps occasionally a little seriousness creeps in? - but I did love Maggi's example of putting snow chains on a car and Cliff's reply!).
Most professional (academic) scientists who teach (especially the younger ones) have no interest whatsoever in the history of their subjects. Maybe horticulture is different.
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Little b******s!!!
Unbelievably bad luck, Martin. I have to say it reinforces my opinion that those pesky critters have an unerring good taste and would much rather have a fine Aberdeen Angus steak than a slice of Spam.
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I think Tom himself has said that with his snowdrop the green outer marks are variable and absent in some years.
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Most professional (academic) scientists who teach (especially the younger ones) have no interest whatsoever in the history of their subjects. Maybe horticulture is different.
Aren't you generalising there a little Gerry, and maybe been a little unfair? Isn't what they teach history? They must surely have had an interest in their given scientific subject and the history that goes with it.
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'Sod's Law' in action Martin.
It's always the most treasured that's eaten.
The herons always ALWAYS managed to select my best fish for their breakfast >:(
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'Sod's Law' in action Martin.
It's always the most treasured that's eaten.
The herons always ALWAYS managed to select my best fish for their breakfast >:(
I stopped keeping fish for that very reason. My fish were going missing and I didn't know where to. Thought it was either cats or someone was taking them. Then one night I got up in the very early hours of the morning to use the toilet when it was still pitch black and noticed the back security light was on. When I looked out there was a heron in the pond helping itself to my prize fish! Gutted. It was a good Friday mind. And if people tell you that herons needs a good run to take off don't believe them, they can take off like a harrier jet!
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That's not quite the whole story - electronic publication is sufficient, providing that printed copies are lodge with certain libraries. For some " more formalised electronic publications, such a s those with ISSN listing, those papers are automatically digitally "harvested " by the major libraries, so I think that is a different issue.
But this informal forum would not count, I presume.
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Only in so far as to show when the name was first publicly used, I think.
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Oh dear, is the controversy over 'Peter Gooding' going to spread to every snowdrop topic?
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Hopefully not :)
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Mercy! The galanthophiles are a finnicky bunch! There : I've moved those posts here.
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The contagion has been stopped ;D
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Aren't you generalising there a little Gerry, and maybe been a little unfair? Isn't what they teach history? They must surely have had an interest in their given scientific subject and the history that goes with it.
I wrote 'most' not 'all'.
In the most literal sense, yes, but in the life sciences it is usually relatively recent history.
I certainly don't blame the younger ones. In academic science today there is no money, promotion or recognition to be gained from a knowledge of, or interest in, the history of one's subject. Nor does it contribute to one's ability to do good research. A trivial example - a few years ago one of my students was severely criticised by his examiner - a distinguished FRS - for including in his thesis (at my suggestion) a brief account of the history of his topic. Fortunately for him, this student subsequently forgot all about history & went on to have a successful career in academic research.
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I stopped keeping fish for that very reason. My fish were going missing and I didn't know where to. Thought it was either cats or someone was taking them. Then one night I got up in the very early hours of the morning to use the toilet when it was still pitch black and noticed the back security light was on. When I looked out there was a heron in the pond helping itself to my prize fish! Gutted. It was a good Friday mind. And if people tell you that herons needs a good run to take off don't believe them, they can take off like a harrier jet!
I would have thought a ' gutted' fish was a prime target for being eaten ???
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Tom was on the radio talking about the snowdrop yesterday:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=midweek (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=midweek)
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We now know what the winning biders motive for buying is. I wonder about the many losers motives. Often the last minute or so shows frantic biding, automatic or otherwise. This one reached a limit apparently.
It is quiet annoying when you get outbid in the last few seconds and you really want what is being auctioned. I lost a wrongly identified victorian painting of the road junction in front of my house in the last 5 seconds of bidding. Not checked out all the neighbours yet to see who bought it.
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Hi Brian,
I too wonder about the other stories that ‘fell’ along the way. At least one other person thought an un-named snowdrop bulb was worth over a thousand pounds!
Tom has certainly found an interesting way of giving his new cultivars a back story.. I wonder what next Valentines Day will bring! We might not even have to wait that long!!..... Anyone got an un-named Christmas flowering bulb?
Tim DH
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The idea of buying the right to name a plant is not new - in the rose world this has been a feature for decades - and around forty years ago the minimum rate was about 5 thousand pounds.
That's a lot of money!
I do not know what the current situation for this.
There have always been a large number of new roses coming on the market and it seems people were not slow to cotton on to the chance to buy the chance to name one for a special person.
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Do you know any examples of 'sponsored' rose names, Maggi? I am curious to know if any stood the test of time and are still available.
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No idea Alan. I only know the practice existed from rose growing family connections. I do know that generally speaking the "life" of a rose variety tends to be be pretty short. The number of names lasting through the years and remaining in commerce is small compared to the number "released" each year. Any study of old catalogues would show that, I'm sure.
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There was a period, mainly from the middle of the last century on, when new plant varieties, especially shrubs, were being named (paid for obviously) after big commercial brands - e.g. the deciduous azalea 'Persil'.
Rhododendron 'Persil' being , of course, a brilliant white.
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Still widely available.
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Still widely available.
One that has washed its face economically then? ::) ;D
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There was a period, mainly from the middle of the last century on, when new plant varieties, especially shrubs, were being named (paid for obviously) after big commercial brands - e.g. the deciduous azalea 'Persil'. Rhododendron 'Persil' being , of course, a brilliant white.
Martin - I had forgotten about Persil, it routinely appeared on the winner's table here back in the 70's and 80's. A fine azalea it is.
johnw
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So it's not named after the French for parsley?
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Hi Brian,
I too wonder about the other stories that ‘fell’ along the way. At least one other person thought an un-named snowdrop bulb was worth over a thousand pounds!
Tom has certainly found an interesting way of giving his new cultivars a back story.. I wonder what next Valentines Day will bring! We might not even have to wait that long!!..... Anyone got an un-named Christmas flowering bulb?
Tim DH
Will a blue daffodil do? ::) Or maybe one of my red snowdrops?
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Will a blue daffodil do? ::) Or maybe one of my red snowdrops?
I can think of a few folks who might pay you NOT to introduce those, Anne! ( My fiver is in the post.......)
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Here's the Telegraph's version of the news story published earlier by the Mirror. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/10647220/Woman-pays-1602-to-name-snowdrop.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/10647220/Woman-pays-1602-to-name-snowdrop.html)
We now learn that Mr Gooding will be introducing 'tight security measures for his snowdrop'. Somebody should tell the poor guy that he has a snowdrop worth £50 on a good day for which his daughter paid a hefty premium for the privilege of naming. Or maybe not a hefty premium, compared to the cost of naming a rose?
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It's curious isn't it - you can't steal a garden like you might a painting, but you can steal the plants in it, but only if people put a value on them! No wonder it's so hard to run a specialist nursery - it would be simpler just to give the plants away like you do to your friends. So far we don't have barbed wire and security cameras around our garden, and if we get to that point I think we will just walk away from it.
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Somebody should tell the poor guy that he has a snowdrop worth £50 on a good day for which his daughter paid a hefty premium for the privilege of naming. Or maybe not a hefty premium, compared to the cost of naming a rose?
I think maybe if someone did that they would totally spoil the gift for him.
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Do you think so, Brian? What will happen when Evolution Plants start selling the thing? I know there are a few 'completists' who would pay a high price for a snowdrop they do not have but I don't see the rest of us paying a lot of money. But I could be wrong. I have yet to see a good photograph of this particular snowdrop so it is perfectly possible it looks better in life than as an image or better as a clump than as an individual plant.
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Do you think so, Brian? What will happen when Evolution Plants start selling the thing? I know there are a few 'completists' who would pay a high price for a snowdrop they do not have but I don't see the rest of us paying a lot of money. But I could be wrong. I have yet to see a good photograph of this particular snowdrop so it is perfectly possible it looks better in life than as an image or better as a clump than as an individual plant.
Yes I do, he is an elderly gentleman with fond memories of a father he hardly knew, his daughters gesture may be interpreted in all sorts of ways, but it was done for love. The price was not for a snowdrop but for the right to name it so the 'worth' of the bulb is totally immaterial - after all it is only a bulb. I am sure Evolution Plants will not be remembered for the snowdrop (if indeed they do sell it) but for the quality of their goods. I really don't know why everyone is making such a fuss, the lady has spent her money on what she wanted to spend it on as is her right. If anyone criticized me for the amount I spend I would tell them where to go in no uncertain terms.
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I'm not disputing the fact that it is a lovely story and whilst I initially thought that the price paid to name a snowdrop was very high, Maggi provided a context of named roses that suggested it was actually not so. I just felt that it would be better if Peter Gooding could now relax and enjoy his snowdrop without worrying that somebody would want to steal it. Theft of snowdrops and other plants is a worry but two houses in my street were burgled recently and that seems to me to be worse than losing plants from your garden.
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I just felt that it would be better if Peter Gooding could now relax and enjoy his snowdrop without worrying that somebody would want to steal it.
I am sure he is quite relaxed and not employing securicor, personally never believe much that the papers tell us anyway as they are well known for bending the facts to fit their purpose. Besides which they would have to know where the grave was!
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You are probably right, Brian. The Telegraph article had very little to add to what was already reported in the Mirror so perhaps the link to the recent spate of 'snowdrop theft' newspaper articles was contrived. We both agree that the best outcome for Peter Gooding is that he should be that he is left to enjoy his snowdrop free from cares and worries.
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From the PBS lists I discover from Roy Herold that : : The naming rights for a new Moraea species from Jacobs Bay were auctioned off for some $50,000 a couple of years ago.......
From : http://www.straussart.co.za/review-2011/ (http://www.straussart.co.za/review-2011/)
"We were involved in a number of fundraising initiatives which all proved
to be an enormous success and very rewarding.
Name the Iris: The WWF Table Mountain Fund approached us to sell the
naming rights of a rare newly discovered West Coast iris on the verge of
extinction. It started as a tailor-made online auction hosted on the
Strauss & Co website and culminated in an elegant dinner and auction
conducted by Stephan Welz at The Mount Nelson Hotel. After competitive
bidding it was finally knocked down for R550 000 to Mike and Rose
Hainebach who named the iris after his family, the formal Latin name
being Moraea hainebachiana. This is the first time that a plant species
name has been auctioned in Africa."
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Gasp £30,793 / US$51,514
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I wonder how much the Queen of Greece paid for her snowdrop species?
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Somebody else has now borrowed the "name-your-own-snowdrop" idea.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Galanthus-woronowii-NEW-YELLOWISH-COLOUR-FORM-/131133818270?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item1e882f459e (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Galanthus-woronowii-NEW-YELLOWISH-COLOUR-FORM-/131133818270?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item1e882f459e)
it is as yet unnamed. The purchaser will have the honour of naming it, perhaps after a loved one.
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And its not yellow but green ??? Just wondering whom is willing(read stupid enough) to pay for a ordinary single woronowii :o