Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Paul T on November 03, 2007, 03:56:33 AM
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Howdy All,
I figured there mightt be sufficient interest to make a topic of this for those who are into the Arum family. I don't think I am doubling up on another thread somewhere am I? If so, please let me know and I can post pics there. Lots of Arisaemas, Pinellias, Dracunculus, Arums in flower, bud, or just finished here.
To start the ball rolling.....
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This is the leaf of Pinellia cordata. Very, very pretty leaf, best displayed in a pot so that you can see the leaf drooping down over the side. Flower is much smaller (you can sort of see one in the top left of the pic) than P. tripartita and P. pedatissecta but relatively similar to P. ternata. The leaf is the main thing to grow this species for, as it is very noticeable. Let me know if there is interest in seeing other pics of the aroids I've had flowering this spring.
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Yes please Paul.
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Please put them up
Sue
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Ashley and Sue (and others who're reading),
Here's a few of my aroids. Not all of these have flowered this year (has been a hard spring and very dry here) so I've retrieved photos from previous years. The Helicodicerus and Dracunculus are yet to flower this year, with the former already in bud and about to open and the latter still not quite sure whether it feels like it or not. ::) Hoping, hoping!!
Anyway, to the pics.....
I'll start with some Arisaema
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This wonderfully twisted flower is Arisaema ringens. Very cool, from whichever angle you look at it. This side shot shows how it twists in on itself. This is in flower at the moment, and Yes it is that glossy.
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This is a darker flowered form of Arisaema triphyllum, which hasn't even surfaced for this year as yet.
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Arum hygrophyllum
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Arum orientale using a flash to show the colour intensity.
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This is a variegated (or "silver leaf") form of Arisaema amurense I think. Very nice leaf to it, well worth growing for that reason alone.
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Dracunculus vulgaris is one of the aroids that stinks (unlike those I've posted above) and is in full bud right now and waiting to open.
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Helicodicerus muscivorus is supposed to stink most dreadfully but either mine don't, or else for some reason I can't actually smell it. I have no problem smelling any of the other aroids stench, so I am guessing that for some reason mine just doesn't produce the pong like it "should". The flies are still attracted, so there is something produced, but nothing much to my nose. From how bad I have heard it should be I am rather glad it doesn't to be honest!! ;D Things like Arum dioscoridis and Typhonium brownii are quite bad enough thank you very much.
This is just a small selection of some of the species and genus that I grow. Happy to post more if wanted, so if you have any requests let me know. 8)
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Keep it up, Paul!
One of the resaons I like aroids ( in spite of the pong) is their almost infinite variety of leaf shapes and colours as well as the great flowers.....glossy, velvety... all kinds of everything ;D
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Thanks very much Paul. I'd certainly like to see any more you have.
A. hygrophyllum also does well here and has no problem with Irish winters, but I don't grow any of the others :(
Although it's found in Lebanon & Syria do you (or anyone else) know whether its range extends across North Africa too?
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Paul
Do you grow any of the Biarums? I've a few but they are more holding onto life than looking happy, so I must change what I do I think.
Sue
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Paul have you got a new camera?
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Sue,
Yep, I grow a few Biarums, not flowered all of them though only a couple.
Mark,
Not in more than a year (I think that's how long it was?). Why?
I took a few more picsof Arisaema in flower today, but not uploaded as yet. Still have a lot of pics around that I've never sorted and named properly, so I know there are other aroids in that lot that I haven't posted pics of here yet.
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I posted a couple of pics of Arisaema sikokianum on the Southern Hemisphere thread a few days ago and here are a few more. The sikokianums have all been broken off in today's very strong and cold wind. Dammit.
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For some reason A. ciliatum is both flowering without its leaf and has it's tail in the air instead of down the front. The leaf usually overtops the spathe and is made of a dozen or so leaflets. I love the elegant pinstriped look of this species. For comparison, here it is last year.
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Same plant in same pot, photographed in same place, just at a different time of day, hence the shadows in the second pic.
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Arisaema taiwanense also has a lovely leaf and drops of water are suspended from the threads on a damp day.
The stems are beautiful too and in this respect, every species is a little different.
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I grew this from seed as A. sikokianum but it may be A. peninsulare. Not so spectacular as many but I like it very much especially with light through the spathe.
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Can I slip in a picture of the prettiest and most sweet smelling of all? It has just produced its first flowers of the season - I just LUV it! For the first time ever my plants decided to produce seeds last year (this is not really Arisaema country) and now I have a pot full of healthy seedlings to worry about :) Arisaema candidissimum:
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Thanks, Rogan for a sweetly scented one! Strangely,none of our Arisaema candidissimum flowered this year. No idea why... we'll see what happens next time. :-\
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Mine too missed flowering this year - perhaps something was different last year?
Sue
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That's interesting, Sue... can we blame the weather again? Maybe its an esat coast phenomenon... any other comments from those of you with flowers?
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Maggi,
Flowers of A. candidissimum here (near Cologne) as usual. Never had problems with this species.
Gerd
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Rogan,
You're well ahead of me. My clump of that species isn't even showing anything above ground as yet. It's a great species..... when I received it I was told "treat it like a potato". I planted it, and have just left it there multiplying and flowering every year!! ;D
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Way ahead of mine too. It never shows before mid December and last year, not until January. But it was very dry here in the spring and early summer.
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We did have some candidissimum flowers, but not many.
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Hmmmm... time to reanimate this topic I think....
Not and Arum, nor a Biarum, so they don't fit into those topics..... and we're coming well into Arisaema time for many of us. Here's Arisaema sikokianum, the first of the genus to flower for me this year. 8) I just love it!!
Please excuse the background to the longer shot. Some of my wonderfully neat and tidy back yard. ;D But the fence is colourbond metal now. ;D
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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...an amazing aroid from Mars, or is it Venus? ;D I had it some time ago, lost it, and now have three pots of young seedlings bursting at the seams - it's either all or nothing with this one!
Love your backyard Paul, so full of interesting things... 8)
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interesting things.... aka.... MESS!! ;D
Thanks Rogan.
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Just for once we're on song Paul, with my A. sikokianum out now as well. Usually it is quite a bit later than the Aussie plants.
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Lesley,
In two other (far more neglected) pots I have flowers appearing now as well. One looks like it will be a miniature only a few inches tall..... amazing what neglect and starvation can do, yet it is still going to flower. It's probably panicking and thinking it will die, so the flowering is a last ditch attempt to survive. ;)
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Here's my pot from a few years ago - my present batch have plain green leaves. Interesting variations in leaves, spath and spadix abound with this species :D
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You had a lovely pot of them, Rogan. Bummer that you lost them (although good that you have new seedlings coming along! 8)).
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Arisarum vulgare was very common around Ca'n Picafort in northern Mallorca. Not many in flower at this time and here's a few pics.
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Anthony,
Ineresting to see the green flowered form. Ours here are very much brown flowered. Nice!
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Howdy All,
The Arisaemas are coming out slowly here. Attached is Arisaema ringens, such a strange flower and so very cool. ;D
Also, Dracunculus vulgaris, in all it's stinkiness. I'm awaiting the opening of Dracunulus canariensis for the first time for me too (I've had it for a number of years but never flowered it before).
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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Paul's picture of A. ringens above neatly answers Lesley's question in the Arisaeama thread as to why Arisaema's turn their windowed backs to the light - this is to attract pollinators to enter the confines of the spath in much the same way as Darlingtonia, Nepenthes and Sarracenia do to attract potential prey to a watery death. So many other plants do similar things with hooded and windowed organs, e.g. Aristolochia and Ceropegia with their 'Dutchman's Pipe' flowers.
Windowed leaves can also serve a completely different function in many species of succulent plants - letting light in to the interior of the leaves which are buried in the soil to prevent the plant from being dessicated by hot desert winds and strong sunshine.
Here endeth the lesson! :)
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Really interesting Rogan, thanks for the lesson, I love enlightenment!
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Good post, Rogan!
I've drawn atttention to it in the Arisaema pages :)
...that's here, if anyone has missed them.... http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3387.90
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So you think pollinators prefer to enter by a cool back door rather than a warmer front?
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So you think pollinators prefer to enter by a cool back door rather than a warmer front?
Well, no, Lesley, because there is only one door, unless the pollinators chomp their way throught the lit back wall of the flower... which hardly seems worth the effort when the front opening of arisaemas is so large... :-X
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Well yes, I didn't think they had a choice but as the back is to the front (assuming the front is towards oneself, or rather assuming that what is to oneself is the front), then they go in by the back door which is, it seems to me, always facing away from where one can look at it. What I mean is..... blast it. Forget it. ::) :-[ ??? ::) :-[ ???
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Lesley,
Sort of like the time travel conundrum..... if you travel back in time and kill your parents before you're born, how could you exist to go back and kill your parents, etc. In your case the door you're at becomes the front door, so if you're trying to enter via the back door you never can because the back door becomes the front door when you're at it. Wow, who woulda thunk we could get time travel analogies into arisaema discussion. ;)
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hmm, was the question why should an opening facing away from the light be more appealing to insects than an opening facing the light?
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I think it is more that insects are attracted to light in many cases, and a dark opening is less likely to be entered? With the Arisaemas the backs really are translucent and they almost glow through the opening, so maybe that works as a light attractant? I really don't know for sure.
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okay, so then the answer to lesley's question is that if the flower faced the light, the opening would seem dark, better to have the light shining through to the shady side..(i know thats what you said, paul, just rephrasing it)..
interesting things plants do!
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Well I'm glad you two have what I said sorted and understood, 'cos I'm totally in the dark - about what I said, or meant. Is there a smiley thing for totally confused?
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Lesley,
In this case the "front door" would be the one entered from the sunny side. The "back door" would be on the shady side. The front door has now been changed to a stained glass window that can clearly be seen from the back door, inviting entry for a closer viewing. Obviously the insects like a closer viewing of stained glass windows. 8)
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Lesley,
In this case the "front door" would be the one entered from the sunny side. The "back door" would be on the shady side. The front door has now been changed to a stained glass window that can clearly be seen from the back door, inviting entry for a closer viewing. Obviously the insects like a closer viewing of stained glass windows. 8)
lol---isnt that just poetic, paul! you have surely elevated the level of discourse!
lesley, i think you are looking for this smiley: ???
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Lesley, Cohan,
I tend to use the "undecided" smiley when confused or unsure about something ==> :-\
Or the one you suggested Cohan if asking about something or querying something that has been said/read about/etc.
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...now I'm confused too ::) ;D
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Cypripedium flowers have windows at the back of the 'slipper' to draw the bees up through the escape route over the stigma and one of the stamens.
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lesley, i think you are looking for this smiley: ???
Yes, I use that one a lot Cohan. :)
edit by Maggi: further discussion on smileys removed to Aroid digression page!
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Amazingly we had some sunshine today and I was home to enjoy it.
I confess this plant of Arisarum vulgare has had several stays of execution when space has been short but it looks good today so I may have been a bit harsh previously. The contents of the 30cm pot are now a congested mass of rhizomes with barely room for compost. It gets the lazy treatment at repotting, I just tip out the top bit of compost and replace it. The plant seems to like this and has only flowered well with this treatment.
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A fine example of the "treat 'em mean" school of gardening, eh, Darren?! ;D Seems to be working well.... and how good is it to have a display like that half way through November? 8)
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Was enjoying the sun on my back too Maggi! Of course if I turn to face the other way I get to see the Massonia plunge at it's best at the moment too. (You will see a few strays at the base of the Arisarum pot - they are taking over here).
I'd love to take it to our group meeting on thursday but I'm on the bus this time and it isn't practical to cart it, plus I'd have to disentangle it from the Tropaeolum.
I'm going to try the mean approach with Biarum too, largely because I'm bored of waiting years to see a flower on some of them and feel they no longer deserve the TLC they have had up to now.
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I'll try that with Biarum davisii. Never flowered yet but I assumed we didn't have enough heat in the summer. Maybe the compost's too good.
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davisii is one of the failures here too Lesley. I had read somewhere that they like deep planting and little disturbance so I reckon it is worth a try.
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One of my favourates, Arisaema speciosum. More Arisaema to come when I sort out my photo library!
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This is very good Doug. I used to have it but it died through successive drought seasons. I bought a new one, quite a large tuber at the NZAGS show this year. The leaf is great but no flower yet. Maybe next year (send in the clowns).
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Who can help me with an identification of this Biarum, photographed N Morocco, late October?
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Kees Jan,
Sorry - can't help - but want to add a question: Did you see/photograph autumn flowering daffs in North Morocco?
Gerd
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Yes, cavanillesii, elegans, viridiflorus and papyraceus
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Yes, cavanillesii, elegans, viridiflorus and papyraceus
Oooh! Can you guess what the next question is?????? :)
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and as if by magic.......
.http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4631.new;topicseen#new
Thanks, Kees!
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Eh.... ??? I just posted some in the Narcissus department :)
Here is another picture of the Biarum, showing the flowers. Does this help? I think there are two autumn flowering Biarum's known from Morocco. B. tenuifolium and B. dispar. Not sure if this one fits in any of those two though.
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Kees,
I don't know my Biarum particularly extensively, but have flowered the two that you mention. From proportions, I would be guessing Biarum dispar. It always flowers here for me completely naked of leaves, whereas the tenuifolium the one time I flowered it already had developing leaves. The tenuifolium I think also had a much longer flower than the dispar. Your flower is pretty much the same proportion as my dispar, although mine is much darker in colour (grown from seed from a seed exchange a number of years back). I find that the dispar is the easiest flowering of any of my Biarum, flowering every year and well. From the original seed all the plants were similar in flower shape and colour, with one plant having just slightly bigger flowers but having leaves twice the size of the others and having markings on the leaves. These plants are my only example of the species.
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I also thought B. dispar would be the most likely candidate, but the colour is unusual...
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Kees,
Mine of that species is a solid brown. I guess you found a different colour morph. I quite like it! :D
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Here is another picture of the Biarum, showing the flowers. Does this help? I think there are two autumn flowering Biarum's known from Morocco. B. tenuifolium and B. dispar. Not sure if this one fits in any of those two though.
Kees,
That is an excellent and rare color form in Biarum.
It is Biarum dispar, easily recognized by the way the anthers are connected to the spadix, with no interval and the lack of staminoides which are a characteristic of this species.
Biarum tenuifolium ssp. galianii which also can be found in Morocco has a different flower structure from the above.
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Many thanks for your help!
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Many thanks for your help!
I agree with Oron. There is excellent monograph on Biarum's by Peter C. Boyce published in Curtis's Botanical Magazine, vol. 25, 2008.
Janis
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Can someone to help me to identify this Pinelia got from China?
Janis
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Janis,
If it isn't Pinellia cordata it is something very close to it? Similar flowers to the cordata I grow here, has a bulbil in the leaf centre, and paler veins. Not as strong in the leaf contrast as the usual one, although that could be growing conditions I guess, but I would be thinking it is probably that species?
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Just a pictures of my favourite aroid this year.
Edit by Maggi: I have resized the picture to make it a better "screen fit for most viewers!
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Mine flowered for the first time ever this year. It is beautifully white, isn't it. I have lots of photos of it that I took at the time, but haven't processed them to put up on the forums. It is apparently self fertile as it has set seed from just the one inflorescens. 8)
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Glad to hear yours flowered, mine flowers every year now. I had mine for a while before I found out that it thrives on being neglected, watered once in a while and not fed. When I watered it well and fed it all I used to get was lots of leaves but no flowers so be mean to it.
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Can someone to help me to identify this Pinelia got from China?
Janis
No, it isn't cordata. I think cordata has longer spatha (slender) and it isn't hided below leaves (in my plants grown under name of cordata).
Janis
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Janis,
You're right that the cordata I have here has more slender spathes, but the flowers of mine often sit under the leaves rather than above. I still wonder whether it is a variety of it, just something different to that which we already have in horticulture. Certainly the leaves aren't anywhere near as striking as the ones we generally see under the name.
PDJ,
My experiences for the Dracunculus canariensis are the opposite...... I had it neglected in a pot for years and it never flowered, so I repotted and gave it plenty of food and it flowered. It shows how much the growing conditions and microclimates etc affect so many of our growing experiences. ;D Of course, now that it has flowered mine may sulk for eternity and I'll never get another one. :o Fingers crossed that that is not the case though. ;)
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Quite a smelly spectacle which caused its own expulsion by my parents: Amorphophallus rivieri ;D
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You can pour a spoonful of water into the flower to stop the bad smell ;D and keep your plant indoors ;)
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Quite a smelly spectacle which caused its own expulsion by my parents: Amorphophallus rivieri ;D
Arne, the proper name for that species is Amorphophallus konjac. Amorphophallus konjac was described in 1858 and Amorphophallus rivieri is 1869. Both names represent the same species and therefore the older name, Amorphophallus konjac, has preference. As a result, Amorphophallus rivieri was reduced to a synonym of konjac.
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Can someone to help me to identify this Pinelia got from China?
Janis
No, it isn't cordata. I think cordata has longer spatha (slender) and it isn't hided below leaves (in my plants grown under name of cordata).
Janis
Janis, the 2 characters you describe seem more horticultural differences, not taxonomic. Given sufficient nitrogen, the leaves of this species can be much bigger and then will hide the flowers with only the spadix tips visible. There is a (polyploid?) clone of Pinellia cordata in cultivation called "Yamazuki" which is bigger in all its parts than the usual plants and given sufficient nitrogen the leaves can be 25 cm long and should be lifted to see the flowers!.
There is still a debate going on whether Pinellia cordata and the plant on your pictures (Chen Yi A-99) are the same. The main differences seem to be a stoloniferous habit of A-99 and the production of both leafbulbils as well as stembulbils. Flower colour generally is less reliable as a character in aroids and particularly in Pinellia as Pinellia triparta and Pinellia ternata occur in green and purple flowered forms. The smell and the basic structure of the flowers (the male and female naughty bits inside the spathe tube) are the same which might indicate the same pollination syndrome and would vote against a separate status. But the less pronounced silvery veins and lack of beetroot undersides of the leaves of A-99 are obvious differences. Whether alle these differences are enough to separate it as an independent species remains to be seen. I had a discussion with the Chinese taxonomist Li Heng about this plant but we could not come to a conclusion. It does not key out in the upcoming Flora of China as a separate species so I have my own plants labeled as "Pinellia cordat aff." for now but most likely it is a variety of cordata.
PS. One note of warning...... Anyone growing Pinellia cordata that has irregularly, slightly distorted shaped leaves (best described as "bubbly") with light green spots in the leaves, be aware it could be infected with a mosaic virus. Pinellia cordata is not as invasive as Pinellia pedatisecta or P. ternata so got more popular in recent years but I have noticed many plants in cultivation are virus infected. This type of virus can also spread to Arisaema which really can suffer from it. To give an idea, the entire big population of Arisaema candidissimum in the peatbeds of Utrecht Botanic Garden was killed because of mosaic virus.. :(
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Disturbing news about the loss of the Utrecht Arisaema candidissimum , Pascal.
Janis is away in Turkey at the moment, so do not be dismayed by his lack of reply meantime!
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Maggi,
Virus in Arisaema is a major but yet little known threat to collections, the most common infections are of mosaic virus and poty virus. Some growers mistake these infections with nutrient difficiency but it seems most present in sections Sinarisaema (ciliatum, consanguineum, concinnum, erubescens) and Franchetiana (franchetianum/fargesii, lichiangense and candidissimum). Common vectors for the spread of these virus are of course aphids but also those little leafhoppers (Hauptidia maroccana) that seem to be on the increase lately. Scale insects and mealybugs seem less of a threat. I try to keep my collection virus free but the tests to check for virus infections are quite expensive. I am pretty confident I have no virus in my collection but I know with well over 2000 Arisaema tubers that is a bold statement.... ;)
The worrying sign seems to be that propagation by seed is no guarantee the offspring will be virus free so education is key. Good pictures to illustrate virus infection can be found here:
http://botgard.bio.uu.nl/temperate/?gal=default&genus=Arisaema%20virus&all=#current
All pictures are from species of section Franchetiana but the signs for the other sections are similar. It should be noted that virus infection is visible from the moment the leaf unfurls, lighter spots that appear later in the season are generally not virus caused.
Pascal
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Nicole, I will try that tomorrow.
Thanks for correcting me, Pascal.
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Pascal, thanks for the great info. You say virus can be transmitted in Arisaema seed?
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Yes, it seems some types of viruses are also transmitted through seeds, something that was also remarked by A J Halstead, Principal Entomologist of the RHS in a personal communication to me. It is certainly not my intention to make everyone paranoid now but just like with every other plantdisease we simply need to keep an eye on it and be aware it exists. Arum and Dracunculus can also be infected with viruses but because Arisaema are getting increasingly popular, with that popularity also comes the risk of spread. But it is not confined to cultivated plants, during a trip to Nepal I have seen hundreds of infected Arisaema erubescens and in West Bengal I even saw a few infected Arisaema galeatum.
Underneath a picture of an infected erubescens. To be honest, it does look quite attractive but ultimately the plant will weaken and die. As I have not been able to take a fresh leaf sample I can not tell which virus this type of leaves causes.
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Viruses in Iridaceae are transmitted through seed but have no idea of this in aroids as well. We have several species from Utrecht seed so this is distressing news.
Those you saw in Nepal, were near tobacco or taro/dasheen fields?
These virused plants images are invaluable.
Leafhoppers are a problem here too and transmit viruses very rapidly from weeds to garden plants. The attack salvias first.
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Those you saw in Nepal, were near tobacco or taro/dasheen fields?
I can understand what you are aiming at for the symptoms but no, it was in the middle of nowhere with no crop fields in a 5 km range. Taro is cultivated at much lower elevations and they don't grow tobacco in Nepal as far as I know. There is something else they grow that you can smoke in tobacco but that is another story... ;)
Dasheen mosaic virus generally causes lighter leaf areas, particularly in Colocasia (Taro) but tobacco mosaic virus or a related virus could be a possibility.
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The only wild plant we ever saw infected with virus was Talinum paniculatum but in the area people had squash sown everywhere. With a machete it is very easy to infect wild species while "weeding". This scenario is what I had imagined for Nepal.
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You can pour a spoonful of water into the flower to stop the bad smell ;D and keep your plant indoors ;)
Really? Does that work?
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You can see one of my pictures in that link Pascal gave. That A. candidissimum was diagnosed with Dasheen mosaic potyvirus. The plant itself did not seem to suffer from the virus. I had seen that pattern in the leaves since I bought the plant (one corm) and it took 10 years before someone pointed out it might be a virus. In the mean time the plant had multiplied to more then 50 corms which were all flowering.
The seedlings had the virus too.
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Two aroids with no bad smell are in flower now :)
I have got another question:
Biarum marmarisense is a spring or an autumn flowering species? It flowers after the leaves, before the leaves are growing or with the leaves? Regular dormancy is in summer or winter?
My plant is growing very well in winter but there is no flower.
K-D
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Pascal,
Thanks for all the valuable information concerning virus given here. Sadly I am now suspecting that maybe some of my own plants are infected. I guess that the only thing to do is to get rid of them?
I noticed that my A. fargesii had this lighter pattern on its leaf and I am guessing now that it most be this virus. Besides that species I am now suspecting that a friends bulbs of Arisaema consanguineum may be infected.
He has been growing a great number of this species in pots end in fishboxes for a couple of years. The last two years a lot of them have died back, but without having any obvious lighter patterns on their leaves. Earlier years the bulbs has always been perfectly good looking, but at time for repoting last year I noticed that a lot of the bulbs had strange looking cracks in them. Sorry, but I don't have any pictures of this to share but maybe you are aware of what I am talking about.
Have you come across this before and if so, do you thing this could be caused by this virus?
I saw a specimen of Arisaema galeatum growing wild in the West Bengal which I think look suspicious?
Picture 1 - Arisaema galeatum
Picture 2 - Arisaema fargesii
Johan
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Some Aroids from the greenhouses at Gothenburg Botanical garden. All very fascinating!
The first Arisaema to flower this year, Arisaema fimbriatum (pic 1 &2) and Arisaema taiwanense (pic 3).
Dracontium sp (pic 4)
Helicodiceros_muscivorus (pic 5,6,7)
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Some more..
Amorphophallus paeoniifolius, Amorphophallus variabilis & Amorphophallus levallei.
all a bit smelly but still fantastic creations!!
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guess I uploaded wrong pic.
Here's the second picture of A. paeoniifolius
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Those are amazing species Johan. I've never seen anything at all like them. I really like Arisaema fimbriatum. There would be no problem identifying that species when in bloom. ;D
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Johan,
love the A. fimbriatum ssp. fimbriatum, very beautiful.
The amorphophallus are very nice too.
I'm sorry but it looks like the leaves of those two Arisaema's are indeed virussed. It's best to get rid of them.
Lesley, there are some other Arisaema's which have a spadix covered with bristles too, they are in the section anomala, like A. victoriae, A. lihenganum and A. ornatum.
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Arisaema, another of my favorite genera... never saw anything like Arisaema fimbriatum, amazing.
I just dug out an old digital image of Arisaema taiwanense which was displayed at a local NARGS chapter plant show in 2002, grown under greenhouse conditions by plant wizard Roy Herald.
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A North Island friend gave me a pott of seedlings two years ago, said to be A. nepenthoides. But they are taiwanense, about 200 of them! ;D
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Johan, yes they indeed seem virus infected. I have found virus infected Arisaema galeatum in Neora Valley east of Kalimpong in West Bengal too but still a lot of things about viruses and their manifestation are unknown. One of the oddest things I have heard to combat virus in an infected plant is to spray it on a regular base with an aspirin solution..... Seems to decrease the infection rate but I can't find any published results of that research so best to get rid of these plants or at least keep them isolated from the rest of the collection. And keep aphids away from the plants.
Fimbriatum is a beauty in both its forms. True fimbriatum occurs primarily in Malaysia and is the bigger of the 2 with striped flowers, the one often called var. or ssp. bakerianum occurs mostly in S Thailand and lacks the stripes. Both not really "rock garden" plants but stunning nevertheless.
Fimbriatum is the only tuberous species within the genus with such an appendix, all others are rhizomatous and rare in cultivation. It is easy to grow as a house plant by the way...
Just to show you how unreliable colour and pattern is as a character in Araceae, see underneath of another form of Amorphophallus variabilis which is more salmon coloured than the one you showed. Evenly green forms also exist of this Amorphophallus which has a smell best described as truffle oil gone bad.... :o.
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Pascal,
I will make sure to get rid of all plants that could be infected and to spread this information further on. It would be very bad if the virus would spread to other plants.
Great to see another form of Amorphophallus variabilis. It looks really nice! I find it very nice and interesting with the great color variation within species. Its great when you see both light green and almost black forms of the same species!
Your Arisaema fimbriatum var. bakerianum looks fantastic! I have noticed that our clone of Ariseama fimbriatum smells a bit like fish or salt water. Have you noticed the same with your var. bakerianum?
I would definitely like to grow var. bakerianum, both in our green house and of curse very much as a house plant! Wow, that would just be great!
Do you know if and where its possible to get hold of this variety?
I have a small Small tuber of Arisaema victoriae which I got from a friend last year. It is on its way out of dormancy now and I will try to grow it as a house plant in a east facing window. Any thoughts on how to grow that species?
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Your Arisaema fimbriatum var. bakerianum looks fantastic! I have noticed that our clone of Ariseama fimbriatum smells a bit like fish or salt water. Have you noticed the same with your var. bakerianum?
No, it is odourless. Most Arisaema have sciarid rootfly as pollinators and therefore smell more like fungi to attract them. Exceptions are Arisaema sizemoreae which faintly smells of Narcissus and some yellow forms of Arisaema maxwellii that have a sweet, almost lily of the valley smell.
Do you know if and where its possible to get hold of this variety?
Send me a private message OK?
I have a small tuber of Arisaema victoriae which I got from a friend last year. It is on its way out of dormancy now and I will try to grow it as a house plant in a east facing window. Any thoughts on how to grow that species?
Although the short rhizomes of A. victoriae almost look like a tuber, they are still a rhizome and the worst thing to do with rhizomatous tropical Arisaema is to plant them too deeply, the rootzone needs to "breath" so pot it up in a very airy, humus-rich mixture just below the surface. Many rhizomatous Arisaema grow in the humuslayer with means a constantly moist air around the rootzone. Some plants of Arisaema filiforme I even grow in pure living sphagnum moss! Stagnant moisture will kill it. However, on a window sill these conditions are hard to achieve because the moisture level will fluctuate too much due to evaporation which would make regular watering necessary, compact the soil and squeeze out the air. I would advise not to grow this one on a windowsill despite the fact it has got leathery leaves, in general the tuberous species are easier to grow as houseplants than the rhizomatous species
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Pascal,
First, thanks for your advice concerning Arisaema victoriae! I will try my best to give it suitable conditions.
Arisaema sizemoriae! :o. Its looks very nice, great spadix appendage. Its really interesting that it has a smell of Narcissus, wow! I found it also very interesting to hear that Arisaema maxwellii can have an lily of the valley like odour.
Are both of these new species? I cant seem to find any information about them, I have only got the first edition of Gusman- 'the genus Arisaema', maybe that's why?
There are a lot of great pictures of Arisaema maxwelli on IAS homepage, but I noticed that it was listed without auktors name. Is it jet to be described?
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Johan,
Both maxwellii and sizemoreae were described by Wilbert Hetterscheid with Guy Gusman as co-author in the Journal of the International Aroid Society (Aroideana 26: 39 (Dec. 2003)). The entire group these 2 species belong to seems rather variable so I sincerely doubt the species delimititations of these species indeed are as fixed as they are presented in their diagnosis. Both species were described based on cultivated plants of known origin but because they are samples from nature they could be just nodes in a variation range and several plants collected in other areas of Thailand show intermediate characters which causes me to doubt they are separate species.
But to search for a literature reference of any plant the best way of finding it is to do a search on www.ipni.org. In the old days one had to buy the Index Kewensis on CD, now everything is online so all information can be accessed by anyone interested, even if names in publications are not valid because they were not published according to the rules of the Botanical Code of Nomenclature.
The possible reason you couldn't find sizemoreae might be because I frequently misspell it as sizemoriae and even have labeled the picture of it that way......:-[....
The plant on the picture by the way is the holotype clone of this species. Both species are named after 2 plant collectors that have done extensive fieldwork in Thailand and mainly collected Amorphophallus for the first author of these species.
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Pascal,
Thanks a lot for the info! and for the link to the IPNI.
I will have to bye some of the back issius of Aroidiana right away!
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Just emerging is a variable hybrid between Arisaema amurense (itself rather variable) and A. tashiroi, the latter a slender plant with distinctive snake-skin marked leaf sheathes. The hybrids are much shorter and more stout than the slender A. tashiroi, but inherit the richly colored stems.
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Mark, was this a controlled and intentional cross or a chance seedling?. If controlled, do you have pictures of the mother plant and the dad?
Generally I am not a big fan of man made hybrids in Arisaema because they complicate taxonomy and the offspring is rarely more attractive than the parents but documented hybrids at least give a clue to what might be a hybrid and what not. If you have this data I would be interested to know.
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Mark, was this a controlled and intentional cross or a chance seedling?. If controlled, do you have pictures of the mother plant and the dad?
Generally I am not a big fan of man made hybrids in Arisaema because they complicate taxonomy and the offspring is rarely more attractive than the parents but documented hybrids at least give a clue to what might be a hybrid and what not. If you have this data I would be interested to know.
This was a chance seedling (actually, a number of seedlings with some variation). I grow two forms of A. amurense, a robust one with green brownish-tinged flower (which the hybrids most resemble) and smaller all-green flowered ones, and rather close by I grew A. tashiroi. A. kishidae was also there but that one died out a few years ago, however it remains a possibility this species is actually one of the parents... either parent could be responsible for the snake-skin marbled leaf sheathes that is not present on A. amurense. I have sinced moved my A. tashiroi, where it seems happier and grows taller too. I can post photos of both the hybrid plants flowering in 2009, along with A. tashiroi in 2009... will do so later on today.
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The sheath is very attractive, as I find on all Arisaemas.
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Following up on my post about Arisaema amurense x tashiroi hybrids, here are two batches of photos:
photos 1-5 A. tashiroi
photos 6-7 A. amurense - robust form, with brownish flowers
photos 8-10 A. amurense x tashiroi, emerging flowers and foliage
photos 11-14 (in a second batch) A. amurense x tashiroi, full flower and foliage, last photo shows fruit.
Note: the robust A. amurense has flowers that smell badly of wet dog. Interestingly, the A. amurense x tashiroi hybrid has flowers with the same bad smell.
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2nd batch of Arisaema amurense x tashiroi
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Here is a form of A. triphyllum that always flowers before the leaves.... In Japan this would be a new species!
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Here is a form of A. triphyllum that always flowers before the leaves.... In Japan this would be a new species!
Cool! Where did you originaly find it? I've never seen one that flowers before the leaves. Is it in flower now, or a photo from a previous year?
I've been fascinated with Arisaema triphyllum for most of my life, starting when I was 10 years old and my parent's property had wild brush areas full of A. triphyllum, Trillium cernuum, and poison ivy. I would lift each and every hooded spathe to see what color they were, running the gamut from all pale green to near black, various striping, and everything in between. The species is amazingly diverse, and wherever I come across it, the recognition of A. triphyllum is immediate, yet it seems there is always some unique and varying characteristics that set that individual apart. What I like about this one too, is that it flowers late, usually late May or early June.
Just took a quick look through my digital image library, and here's a sampling of varying forms of Arisaema triphyllum. I'm sure you're well familiar with such variation, but those viewers less familiar with this species might enjoy seeing the variation.
1 - veined leaves and light pie-crust-crimped edge, large leaves
2 - dark black-purple spathe and spadix
3 - top half dark spathe, lower portion white, light green spadix
4 - dark spathe, visibly striped on the *outside* of the flower
5 - dark spathe, glaucous purple stems and leaf petioles
6 - attractive form found in nearby woods, low growing, very wide striped flower
7 - another view of the same local form, notice the dark stippling at the base of the flower.
8 - white-veined leaf form, emerging
9 - view from above showing the beautiful leaves
10 - flower is light green and white striped
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I'm sure that many folks really appreciate, as I do, the chance to see the level of variation that exists in these plants. A huge source of interest.... and, in some species and genera; frustration, as the ID becomes trickier! :-X
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A ten inch shoot.
Not sure of the ID
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A ten inch shoot.
Not sure of the ID
Arnold, be sure to show more photos of this as the "story unfolds" in the coming days and weeks. :)
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Fantastic triphyllums there Mark. We don't see much variation in the native ones here, mainly green and white.
86F? That is outrageous.
johnw
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Mark,
Yes, in flower now. It is also the earliest of all my clones. I too have the ex Mrs Frenchs form, a white veined form of my own that I found in west Tennessee about 9 years ago, a purple veined leaf form, all manners of spathe color selections, some with purple spotted leaves (var. pusillum), and others selected for the overall size of the plant. Pictures to come as the season progresses.
We hit 89 here, but now it feels like spring again. All the Daff's are gone, but roses and Peonia are in bud.
Aaron
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Mark:
Here's an update.
Arnold
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Arnold, the long spathe tip, dark, rather fat appendix tip and colour of the cataphyll suggests something like Arisaema ehimense, ever bought that species? From Asiatica perhaps?
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Pascal:
Never purchased from Asiatica but have had bulb lust looking over their web site.
Arnold
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Pascal:
Never purchased from Asiatica but have had bulb lust looking over their web site.
Arnold
Fascinating, what an unusual spadix. Arnold, please show up again at rather anthesis.
Pascal, any thoughts about the A. amurense x tashiroi cross?
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Pascal, any thoughts about the A. amurense x tashiroi cross?
Nope, not really. Open pollinated hybrids in cultivation are sometimes less obvious to retrace than natural hybrids. During my fieldtrips I have encountered 3 natural hybrids that each time occurred in mixed populations of just 2 species but in cultivation it is often harder because more species/forms grow side by side. Hence my initial question whether it was a documented hybrid or a chance seed seedling, I was hoping it was the first.
It just surprises me that if one of the parents is that darker robust form of amurense from your picture why the resulting hybrid lacks any pigment and is all green. Usually the hybrids show more obvious intermediate characters, certainly the ones that seem very unlikely like the intersectional one Tony Avent of Plant Delight made by crossing franchetianum/fargesii x heterophyllum. Crosses within sections are the most likely ones to occur yet at the same time are the hardest to place. It could be that the parentage is like you say it is but only if you make the same cross with the suspected male and female intentionally you can be sure. The way the leaves emerge from the shoot leans more towards the way amurense appears from its shoot so that would be in favour of thinking amurense is indeed a parent but I would say your all green amurense would then be the more likely parent. Tashiroi itself is a robust species and hybrids generally tend to be vigorous anyway so the vigour can only come from 1 parent.
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Pascal, any thoughts about the A. amurense x tashiroi cross?
The way the leaves emerge from the shoot leans more towards the way amurense appears from its shoot so that would be in favour of thinking amurense is indeed a parent but I would say your all green amurense would then be the more likely parent. Tashiroi itself is a robust species and hybrids generally tend to be vigorous anyway so the vigour can only come from 1 parent.
A mere 2 meters away I grow a patch of regular green and white flowered A. amurense. Of the robust A. amurense (possibly itself a hybrid), it grows in slightly varying forms, some have brown shaded blooms, others have green and white flowers. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
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That's why I am not really enthusiastic about Arisaema hybrids, they mess up taxonomy if undocumented. If I am asked to ID a plant from a picture and I can't immediately place it, I always first ask what the origin is, what more species the owners grow and if it was grown from a seedex. Particularly the various forms of consanguineum and ciliatum seem to cross in cultivation. Some members of the Arisaema Enthusiast Group are over-enthusiastically swapping pollen among their plants but if some of the crosses succeed, the resulting offspring is rarely more interesting than the parents in my opinion. That is, if the cross is documented and the parents are known.....
Recently a picture of a cross made by Roy Herold with sikokianum, takadae and limbatum as DNA-donors was posted by one of the AEG members. This is one of the first crosses I have seen that does make some sense because it combines the strong characters of the individual parents. Oddly enough the cross was made to produce a sikokianum lookalike that was longer lived than sikokianum. Many growers seem to struggle to keep sikokianum alive and it disappears after a couple of seasons with them. I grow it in pots and have some plants for well over 12 years so don't seem to have that problem but at least this hybrid is documented and makes some sense:
http://botu07.bio.uu.nl/temperate/?gal=Arisaema&id=2484
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http://botu07.bio.uu.nl/temperate/?gal=Arisaema&id=2484
That "sikokianum, takadae and limbatum" hybrid is beautiful. Well, I enjoy my spontaneous cross between amurense and tashiroi... I don't send in seed to any seedexes of such things... they just exist, on their own accord, in my garden. I thought it might be interesting for others to see that the characteristics are quite intermediate. It also serves as an example, or caution, for would-be seed donators who donate seed from garden grown open-pollinated plants.
Now, if Roy Herold could cross my 6' (2 meter) giant form of A. heterophyllum with sikokianum of his new hybrid, imagine a ginormous sikokianum type thing that grows a meter tall or more... fantastic. Better yet, maybe he can cross it with Amorphophallus to get even plants of even greater gargantuan size ;D
Roy should be at a local NARGS meeting tomorrow, I'll ask him about this.
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Despite my doubts about Arisaema hybridisation I am ashamed to admit I made one cross myself......:-[
I am still doubtful Arisaema candidissimum and lichiangense are seperate species so I crossed one of the many forms of candidissimum with lichiangense to see what the result would be. Surprisingly the offspring turned out to be 3 different types, each quite attractive with somewhat candy-colours, underneath one of them. But I still believe both species should be merged under one name because morphologically there is no unique character that distinguishes one from the other. A well known taxonomist once told me that he thought both were different species because they grow at different altitudes, an argument that I still find surprising because many Arisaema species are distributed over a wide altitudinal range which does affect some features but does not make the forms from different altitudes a different species.
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Despite my doubts about Arisaema hybridisation I am ashamed to admit I made one cross myself......:-[
tisk tisk :o Your hybrid is stunning, shame on you for creating such a beauty ;D
You bring up a good point however, it can be useful to understand about hybridization possibilities between species to give further clues, as in your own experiment. On the other hand, in some genera such as Allium, there have been studies showing that disparate Allium species from separate sections of the genus have strong possibility to hybridize... perhaps explaining why seemingly unlikely hybrids between species like American nodding onion and prairie onion (Allium cernuum, stellatum, respectively), will cross spontaneously with unrelated Asian species like A. nutans and senescens.
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That is really lovely. It could be fashioned from porcelain.
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Recently a picture of a cross made by Roy Herold with sikokianum, takadae and limbatum as DNA-donors was posted by one of the AEG members.
http://botu07.bio.uu.nl/temperate/?gal=Arisaema&id=2484
Are there two Roy Herolds? The Roy Herold that I thought was being referred to is American, living in Massachusetts, New England. When I asked about this Arisaema hybrid, he said he has no knowledge of such a thing... which leads me to believe it must be a different Roy Herold.
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Could be Mark, this Roy Herold was one of the starters of the Arisaema internet community and was the first one with a website on Arisaema, now made part of the website of the International Aroid Society: http://www.aroid.org/genera/arisaema/herold/
I am not familiar with the plantcommunity in the US so wouldn't know.
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Arum creticum flowering now. I've also had A. purpureospathum growing in the garden for some years but never got it to flower; I assume it wants a warmer climate.
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Could be Mark, this Roy Herold was one of the starters of the Arisaema internet community and was the first one with a website on Arisaema, now made part of the website of the International Aroid Society: http://www.aroid.org/genera/arisaema/herold/
I am not familiar with the plantcommunity in the US so wouldn't know.
What fooled me was the name you gave; Roy Herald. In the link you provide, the person's name is Ray Herold.
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Hi all,
I made a cross between Arisaema serratum and A. kishidae (pollen) in 2004. This resulted in several slightly different seedlings.
All are more vigorous and (in my opinion) more attractive than the parents.
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Here are two selections of Arisaema triphyllum.
The first I found as a small percentage of a population in west Tennessee about 6 years ago. The silver veined forms were 10-15% of the plants present. It usually only has one leaf per shoot, is more slender, and a smaller plant than "Mrs. French's" form.
The second I found about 8 years ago in east Tennessee as a single large plant about 1 m tall. It grows much shorter in the garden, but it has a dark spathe, dark stem, and purple centers to the leaves. It also forms short "rhizomes" from the mother tuber and grows little tubers about 6-10 cm away.
Aaron Floden
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Here are two selections of Arisaema triphyllum.
The first I found as a small percentage of a population in west Tennessee about 6 years ago. The silver veined forms were 10-15% of the plants present. It usually only has one leaf per shoot, is more slender, and a smaller plant than "Mrs. French's" form.
The second I found about 8 years ago in east Tennessee as a single large plant about 1 m tall. It grows much shorter in the garden, but it has a dark spathe, dark stem, and purple centers to the leaves. It also forms short "rhizomes" from the mother tuber and grows little tubers about 6-10 cm away.
Aaron Floden
The dark leaf-veined form is not one that I've seen, or at least, while still having mostly green leaves. I have a couple dark leaf forms where the purplish color is throughout the leaf parts, but your find looks quite distinctive. The triphyllums are only just starting to emerge here, must go triphyllum hunting in a few weeks :D
Have been snapping lots of Epimedium pics recently, and the expanding bloom on my hybrid A. amurense x tashiroi looked photogenic in the sunlight, with epimedium backdrop. In this planting, I have some large flat rocks placed as stepping stones, one by this Arisaema, and when I step on it, squat down to snap pics, I catch the stink of this Arisaema's flowers :o :P :-X Notice the fly on top of the spathe in the second shot.
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Here are a couple of images at anthesis.
Arnold
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Arnold, I am 100% sure this is Arisaema ehimense
Pascal
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Thanks, Pascal. Now I can change the label.
Regards,
Arnold
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Thanks, Pascal. Now I can change the label.
Regards,
Arnold
And what an awesome species it is! :o I love the shiny black stems and leaf petioles, not sure about the weird "corn dog" spadix ;D
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Funny thing it was purchased as something else. I have to send a note to the nursery I purchased it from. Hopefully they won't ask for more money.
Arnold
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Arnold, as what did you buy it then?
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Pascal:
I purchased it as Arisaema griffithii.
Arnold
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Pascal:
I purchased it as Arisaema griffithii.
Arnold
:o That is a big difference, these 2 species have absolutely nothing in common, the tubers are very different. Well, not a bad buy I would say, ehimense is much more rare in cultivation and has a higher pricetag..... ;)
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Pascal:
I was thinking that when I let the nursery know they may ask for an additional payment.
Arnold
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This Arisaema nepenthoides has been open since the 23rd April and only now starting to develop leaves.
It is strange just to see the flower sitting on the end of a bare stem.
I love the mottling of both stem and flower.
I did enter a small part of this photo in 'Puzzles' but no one seems to have wanted to play. ;D
(There was a reasonable clue too) ::)
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This Arisaema nepenthoides has been open since the 23rd April and only now starting to develop leaves.
It is strange just to see the flower sitting on the end of a bare stem.
I love the mottling of both stem and flower.
I did enter a small part of this photo in 'Puzzles' but no one seems to have wanted to play. ;D
(There was a reasonable clue too) ::)
Fantastic, and very snake like in form and in markings, do you speak parseltongue to it to encourage good growth ;D Do you have a photo showing the flower just sitting atop a naked stem... would like to see it. Does the flower have any scent or odor?
I thought the puzzle suggestion that it was burnt pita bread was a reasonable suggestion ;D
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I did enter a small part of this photo in 'Puzzles' but no one seems to have wanted to play. ;D
(There was a reasonable clue too) ::)
Even if you put a picture of the entire flower in the puzzle it still could not be solved because without a picture of the leaves it could have been the related A. wattii too..... ;)
A. nepenthoides has 5-7 (-9) leaflets, wattii 3 with the 2 lateral leaflets lobed on the outside. Flowerwise they are pretty much comparable having the same type of mottling, flower shape and extent of auricles. Both also have forms flowering with the leaves and without the leaves. Seeing a colony of "naked" flowering nepenthoides though is a terrific sight, just like an army of meerkats standing guard... ;D
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Do you have a photo showing the flower just sitting atop a naked stem... would like to see it. Does the flower have any scent or odor?
Mark,
I hadn't taken a photo of the whole stem so I just did.
The leaves are just breaking out.
I have yet to detect an odour from any Arisaema
Even if you put a picture of the entire flower in the puzzle it still could not be solved because without a picture of the leaves it could have been the related A. wattii too..... ;)
Pascal,
Arisaema as an answer would have sufficed.
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Mark,
I hadn't taken a photo of the whole stem so I just did.
The leaves are just breaking out.
I have yet to detect an odour from any Arisaema
That is SUPER AWESOME!!! :o :o :o Thanks for taking the time to shoot a new pic and post it here.
Regarding odor, having no odor is better I suppose. The hybrid I posted earlier in this thread of A. amurense x tashiroi stinks like a wet dog, just like its parent, a robust A. amurense form. These are the only Arisaema I have noticed any odor on.
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The hybrid I posted earlier in this thread of A. amurense x tashiroi stinks like a wet dog, just like its parent, a robust A. amurense form.
Mark,
Thanks for the tip, I know to give A.amurense and it's hybrids a miss now ;D
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Pascal,
Arisaema as an answer would have sufficed.
Granted, that was already a very tough challenge... ;)
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Granted, that was already a very tough challenge... ;)
That would have been a rum answer Maggi ;) ;) ;)
Every little helps ;D
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Ooh! .... well, yes, every little does help but some of us need more of a clue than others, eh?!! :D ;)
Looking back at the puzzle I was quite thrown by the angle.... sneaky trick that! ;D
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:D Sneaky is good in puzzles ;D
Otherwise it's not mich of a puzzle 8)
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:D Sneaky is good in puzzles ;D
Otherwise it's not mich of a puzzle 8)
Very true!! ;D ;D :) :-*
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Fred, you were too subtle for us. Some of us need a sledgehammer to get the point. ;D
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I found last year this Arisaema in between Arisaema kiushianum
beautiful leaves but no flower this year it flowers but sure not a
Arisaema kiushianum
Who knows this species It was in between wild collected bulbs
so they grow together with Arisaema kiushianum
Roland
The correct name must be Arisaema thunbergii ssp. thunbergii says Pascal
Thanks
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Because I did not see them Yet some Pictures from Arisaema kiushianum
Roland
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I found last year this Arisaema in between Arisaema kiushianum
beautiful leaves but no flower this year it flowers but sure not a
Arisaema kiushianum
Who knows this species It was in between wild collected bulbs
so they grow together with Arisaema kiushianum
Roland
Roland, this is the Japanese Arisaema thunbergii ssp. thunbergii. Arisaema thunbergii is split into 3 subspecies: ssp. thunbergii, ssp. urashima and ssp. autumnale. Subspecies autumnale is endemic to Taiwan and is autumn flowering with a striped flower. Subspecies thunbergii and subspecies urashima both occur in Japan with the main difference being the structure of the appendix. In your picture you can see the white zone of the appendix in the spathe throat that has a rather rough, spongy structure typical for subspecies thunbergii. In subspecies urashima this surface is smooth plus subspecies urashima usually does not show this type of variegation, if any at all.
Arisaema kiushianum has a very characteristic T-shaped white zone in the back of the spathe as can be seen on your first picture of this species.
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Thanks a lot Pascal
I change the name in my computer
I grow Arisaema thunbergii ssp. urashima My self
but it has not the beautiful leave pattern as this one
is this normal in Arisaema thunbergii ssp. thunbergii ??
Roland
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Nope, the "normal form" has plain green leaves, a minority have these silver lined leaves. Generally ssp. thunbergii has narrower, more leathery and shiny leaves than ssp. urashima. Urashima on the other hand has more variation in the flower, particularly in the flower colour from green through to straw colored to orange forms that are highly priced in Japan. The flower is also more "open" in urashima with a broader spathe blade but fortunately all subspecies are prolific offsetters. Not to mention kiushianum that easily produces 10 bulblets per tuber.....
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I just have a clone from Arisaema ssp. urashima
and they don't make seeds I think it is self sterile
but multiplied fast with bulblets But a beautiful long tail from about 75 cm
I have to search for other ones maybe there is a Japanese member
who has some seeds
Roland
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A couple of Arisaemas from the garden - A. griffithii var. pradhanii and A. sikokianum
Alex
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Our first Arisaemas
Arisaema sikokianum
Arisaema englerii
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A nice clump of Arum sp. with some yellow field poppy in amongst it! ::)
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Two first arisaemas flowering now for the 1st time with me
1,2.Arisaema nepenthoides
3.Arisaema ringens
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a very nice small Arum balansanum from Turkey. It is about 15cms tall
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Arum dioscoridis cyprium (hope so)
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I received this Arisaema sp. from Darrell Probst; I believe he collected it in China. Can anyone suggest what species it might be? The foliage is stunning when fully expanded.
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One of the clear forms of Dracunculus vulgaris
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I received these two Arisaema as Arisaema serratum, the first one as ssp.serratum. They look pretty different. Any ideas about ID?
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Hello Fred
Nice Dracunculus vulgaris
is it so nice perfumed as the other ones ;D ;D ;D
I am still looking for the real album
but nobody seems to grow that one
Roland
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A couple of aroids in flower today.
The first I bought as A. wilsonii I questioned this in another forum when it first flowered and it was identified as A. asperatum. If you think differently please say so ;D
Arisaema asperatum
Arisaema asperatum (the naughty bits )
Arisaema ringens
Arisaema ringens
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One of the clear forms of Dracunculus vulgaris
Fred a lovely form,I wait for mine to bloom. Here are two clones of Arum doiscoridis could be either what is called ssp syriacum or ssp spectabile but may now be called cyprium.
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Bought as Arisaema Arisaema engleri
is this name correct ???
Roland
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I received these two Arisaema as Arisaema serratun, the first one as ssp.serratum. They look pretty different. Any ideas about ID?
Oleg, Arisaema serratum is a very widespread species in Japan and Korea and therefore highly polymorphic. Many distinct forms within its distribution range have often been raised to species or subspecies level and merged back into serratum again later on after additional research, showing how difficult this group taxonomically is asses. But both plants on your pictures are part of the serratum complex. Horticulturally distinct but taxonomically the same species. With so many Arisaema species, there often is no typical "species X" but many variants of the species. The second plant comes close to what previously was known as Arisaema mayebarae, one of the darkest forms of serratum
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Really nice species everybody !
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Roland, your A. engleri looks like my A. engleri. It blooms early and now it`s over. I believe the name is right. (Roland told me the right name)
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Hello Hagen
I just saw the name is not correct
I think it must be Arisaema engleri
I wrote it also wrong
Roland
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two pictures of Arum conophalloides var virescens which is now A. rupicola var virescens from near Lake Van in Turkey. I find this a pig to grow compared with the usual rupicola from the west of Turkey
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Hello Tony
Funny pigs you have on the top of the spadix ;D
Roland
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Thank you, Roland. engleri is OK.
Here is Arisaema dilatatum.
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Hello Hans
I thought you where wrong with the name Arisaema dilatatum
but in the latest review of Arisaema
it is mentioned as Arisaema dilatatum and not as
Arisaema dilitatum
I found this name in Aroid Hardiness List from the
International Aroid Society and a lot of sites are using this name
but in an other part they used the good name
I think I have to change the name in my computer
Roland
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I received these two Arisaema as Arisaema serratun, the first one as ssp.serratum. They look pretty different. Any ideas about ID?
Oleg, Arisaema serratum is a very widespread species in Japan and Korea and therefore highly polymorphic. Many distinct forms within its distribution range have often been raised to species or subspecies level and merged back into serratum again later on after additional research, showing how difficult this group taxonomically is asses. But both plants on your pictures are part of the serratum complex. Horticulturally distinct but taxonomically the same species. With so many Arisaema species, there often is no typical "species X" but many variants of the species. The second plant comes close to what previously was known as Arisaema mayebarae, one of the darkest forms of serratum
Thank you, Pascal. A very valuable explanation
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Hello Hans
I thought you where wrong with the name Arisaema dilatatum
but in the latest review of Arisaema
it is mentioned as Arisaema dilatatum and not as
Arisaema dilitatum
I found this name in Aroid Hardiness List from the
International Aroid Society and a lot of sites are using this name
but in an other part they used the good name
I think I have to change the name in my computer
Roland
The epithet dilatatum refers to the dilated or expanded appendix base. In its close relative elephas the appendix base is already expanded but in dilatatum this is rather extreme and can be almost 2 cm in diameter.
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Arisaema tortuosum or heterophyllum?
Arnold
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Full view.
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Looks for me the flower to low and blooms to early for A.tortuosum
My A. tortuosum just starts growing in the tunnel
Roland
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Arisaema tortuosum or heterophyllum?
Arnold
The main difference between tortuosum and heterophyllum can be found in the leaves. The central leaflet ("the middle one") of heterophyllum is shorter than the lateral leaflets, with tortuosum the central leaflet is as long or longer than the lateral leaflets. Heterophyllum usually has a single leaf whereas tortuosum can have upto 3 leaves if big enough. By the look of the leaflets on your picture I would say your plant is Arisaema heterophyllum.
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I'd hesitate to suggest a name for any Arisaema among this group of afficianados, but in Reply 164, since no-one else has given an answer, it seems to me very like A. taiwanense, or perhaps something closely related. Both the flower heqd and the foliage suggest that species to me.
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I'd hesitate to suggest a name for any Arisaema among this group of afficianados, but in Reply 164, since no-one else has given an answer, it seems to me very like A. taiwanense, or perhaps something closely related. Both the flower heqd and the foliage suggest that species to me.
Oh... I look up reply #164, and see that it is my post, a species I showed several photos of, but no forthcoming suggestions about what it might be except yours. Any other suggestions?
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I'd hesitate to suggest a name for any Arisaema among this group of afficianados, but in Reply 164, since no-one else has given an answer, it seems to me very like A. taiwanense, or perhaps something closely related. Both the flower heqd and the foliage suggest that species to me.
Oh... I look up reply #164, and see that it is my post, a species I showed several photos of, but no forthcoming suggestions about what it might be except yours. Any other suggestions?
Not if it is from China. My first impression is Arisaema sukotaiense, but that one is from Thailand and not reliably hardy. Section Sinarisaema (the "umbrella-leaved" section) is the worst to make any sensible identifications for as the species bounderies within that section are very muddled and it is near impossible to define a character set to distinguish species on, there are a couple of species that are clearly identifiable by one or 2 unique characters, the rest seems to be a sliding transition from one to the other when you see them in the field and most are lumped into the very polymorphic consanguineum.
Taiwanense is an endemic of Taiwan, sukotaiense is its close relative from N Thailand with the same dark, mahogany brown spathe, the same leaf type with drooptips but differing in a smooth appendix among other things. The appendix of taiwanense is distinctly grooved. I would label it as A. sukotaiense aff. and try to confirm its origin if I were you Mark.
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Thanks Pascal, I will ask Darrell Probst where exactly he collected this, I'm sure he'll know.
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Of the several Arisaema in my garden this is my favourite: Arisaema sp. 'Makalu'. It produces this almost black bloom followed by huge very decorative leaves. They are yet to unfirl and get to full size but you can see the pale edges as they begin to unfurl.. I will post a photo when they are fully expanded.
It was given to me by Janet Wheatcroft of Craigieburn Garden about 10 years ago. She collected it in 1995 from the remote Makalu area of East Nepal.
http://www.craigieburngarden.com/
Graham
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Nice flower colour, is it fully open?
Those leaves look interesting too
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Hi Fred,
I wish I could remember if the flower is fully open or not. I will post a photo if it changes.
Graham
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The first flowering of Arisaema sazensoo for me
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Arisaema galeatum and Arisaema speciosum flowering here at present.
Still not detected a scent on any of my Arisaema
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My last Arisaema ringens Brown Devil and
Arisaema ringens Green Devil in flower
Roland
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Oeps ;D
Arisaema ringens Brown Devil and
Arisaema ringens Green Devil
Little mistake in the picture name
Arisaema ringens Brown Devil
must be Arisaema ringens Black Devil
Roland
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Arisaema, ID please.
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Do you have a picture from the leaves
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here is a pic of the leaves.
I have it listed as Formosanum ?
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Michael, correct ID, it is Arisaema formosanum
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Thanks.
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Some pictures what I bought as
Arisaema barnesii
can somebody confirm this
Roland
Arisaema barnesii aff.
thanks Pascal
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Roland,
This plant was introduced into cultivation by a nursery from N India who got them from friends in S India. The people from the nursery are friends of mine and because I had been studying S Indian Arisaema in the field for several years they asked me for an ID (so blame me..... :-[). At that time I concluded it was closest to Arisaema barnesii based on the holotype sheet of this species and additional sheets in Kew and Leiden made Barnes. Unfortunately I can't post pictures of the holotype on this forum due to copyright but I can send you privately if you like.
Because it didn't have the peculiar appendix described for A. barnesii (middle part widened, upper part hooked ending in a smooth little knob) I advised them to market it as "A. barnesii aff.".... However, the trade doesn't like working with "aff." so the name in the trade became A. barnesii. A year after the introduction of this plant I visited the holotype locality of true A. barnesii and found plants that exactly matched the holotype having a different habit and a longer spathe tube with a less pronounced recurved spathe mouth. I also nearby found plants that had traits of related species, the same flowertypes that can be found on additional sheets by Barnes from the same herbarium set. Some S Indian Arisaema are highly endemic (often occuring in a single valley) and easily recognisable, some are more widespread and more difficult to ID. Your barnesii is from the last catagory but I think still matches that name the best, even after having seen many S Indian Arisaema in the field I can't come up with a better name. Not sure if this explanation helps though.....
PS. The synonymisation of A. tylophorum with A. barnesii by Gusman in his book is definitely incorrect, these 2 species bare no resemblance at all in real life.
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Thanks Pascal
I will change it in A. barnesii aff.
Also in my computer
Maybe I get one day a true A. barnesii
I prefer to keep them separate
I try to work with correct labels for my customers
so they can use correct names if they wish
Roland
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Some pictures what I bought as Arisaema barnesii
can somebody confirm this
Roland
A rather handsome Arisaema, neat leaves. Been enjoying all of the information Pascal, I think this thread would certainly be worthy of that special SRGC classification for it to be observed and preserved as specially important.
How hardy might this species be if grown outdoors?
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Hello Mark
I don't know
I grow it in a tunnel almost free of frost
as soon as I have a few more I will test it
or maybe Pascal knows
Roland
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Afraid I am not the right person to ask because I grow 80 % of my collection (>100 species) in pots and overwinter the temperate ones in 3 fridges specially bought for overwintering Arisaema....
But I don't let any of my S Indian species go through a cold-cycle, their trigger to growth usually is the onset of the monsoon, not the rise of temperature so I store them in an unheated room inside during their dormancy period.
Tony Avent says it is hardy at its nursery in North Carolina but I don't know what US zone that would be. To my knowledge only a few S Indian species experience frost of any significance in the wild and that would be Arisaema ghaticum (formerly A. sahyadricum var. ghaticum), Arisaema wightii (the S Indian form of Arisaema jacquemontii) and possibly some murrayi at certain locations. All growing on exposed tops on the mountains in Western Ghats.
But as Tony is eager to test for winter hardiness I am sure he will try more of them in the open. The "barnesii" as grown by Roland is a plant that multiplies fast and I have plenty of offspring so might try some in the garden this year and see if they survive. Attached a picture of some of my plants of it, the tip of the spathe seems rather variable. The whole habit is rather robust with broad, leathery leaves and a height of 50 cm max, this in contrast to "true" barnesii which is more elegant and taller, upto 1 meter.
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I love the first picture of A. galeatum. Very cobra-like, as if just about to strike. :o
Fred, if you have some species in pots instead of the garden, take them into a warm room for a while. You could them smell them very clearly. I once took a pot with A. sikokianum to a meeting, about 100 miles away, in a warm car. Or that was my intention. Before I'd gone 20 miles I had to take the pot from the car and hide it behind a tree on the side of the road. I collected it on the way home about 7 hours later. Sikokianum had become sick okianum. It smelt disgusting. I'd not smelled it before, in the open.
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Some mature and baby tubers of A. jacquemontii are safely potted (obtained just in April) but two small leaves have already come through, out of season. After a frost on Tuesday night, they are both turned to mush. Hopefully the under cover tubers will be OK but I'm putting them in my tunnel to be on the safe side. Others I grow outside have proved hardy enough.
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Hi
Arisaema elephas.
Graham
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Arisaema tortuosum
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a couple of Dracunculus vulgaris two from Crete and one from Turkey
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Tony
Just a detail
the names are wrong or on the pictures or in the text
but the bottom one is beautiful , nice long spathe
if you have one day some seeds or a bulblet spare
just for the collection not for the perfume ;D ;D
Roland
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Roland thank you I have sorted it. I have not noticed the 'scent ' on these, not like the arums.
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Fabulous Arisaemas every one, unfortunately many of them are too big for me to give room to at the moment though I have some coming through, earlier in this thread some lovely forms of Arum dioscoridis featured, This is my plant in flower in the open, which I bought nearly five years ago
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fantastic peter looks like it has babies aswell.... ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks, The babies might be available to swap for other forms! ;)
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Wow Peter...strange looking post if you haven't followed the thread!
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hi, dracunculus vulgaris in flower...outside since five or more years, sunny dry place...
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/Bild011-38.jpg?t=1275995314)
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/Bild010-44.jpg?t=1275995330)
cheers
chris
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My Arisaema candidissima starts flowering
in the tunnel A little early this year
Roland
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Fabulous Chris, but don't spend too long in that part of the garden in the afternoon :P mine is in a huge pot under a tree and is obviously hardy here
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The huge Dracunculus flowers are very exciting. I have some small tubers coming along......soon, I hope.
I really hadn't appreciated before what variation there is in the SHAPE of the candidissimum spathes, as well as the depth of colour. The wide open one is very attractive.
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2 more Arisaema today
1. Arisaema costatum
2.Arisaema asperatum
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I like A. costatum a lot. Pleased to see this picture as I have seedlings, seed from a local friend.
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A little one open today.
Pinellia ternata
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A little one open today.
Pinellia ternata
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How strange, it's in flower here as well. ???
johnw
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Why is that strange John? ???
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Pix of Arisaema taiwanense currently in flower, the second picture is to show the fungus-shaped appendix tip which is characteristic for this species. The third picture is of a tropical oddity from Laos. Everybody thinks of the big stinker Amorphophallus titanum when one hears that genus name, the plant on this picture Amorphophallus ongsakuliiis the other extreme within the genus hardly measuring 15 cm high when fully grown. The flower in reality is only 3 cm and tops the finely divided, fern-like leaves.
PS. The weedy Pinellia ternata is in flower in my collection too, it is the normal flowering time for it.
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Why is that strange John? ???
Because you're in England and I'm in Nova Scotia where spring is much slower. You're supposed to be 4-6 weeks ahead of us.
johnw
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You're supposed to be 4-6 weeks ahead of us.
I could claim it was a long hard, late winter but Pinellia are always late anyway.
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2 other species in flower here, Arisaema ovale is a close relative of Arisaema amurense. The A. intermedium on the picture has the long flagellate spathe appendix that gave rise to forma biflaggelatum. As it is just part of the variation it doesn't deserve a separate status but does make it more attractive
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The third picture is of a tropical oddity from Laos. Everybody thinks of the big stinker Amorphophallus titanum when one hears that genus name, the plant on this picture is the other extreme within the genus hardly measuring 15 cm high when fully grown. The flower in reality is only 3 cm and tops the finely divided, fern-like leaves.
But does it smell?
It's very noticable that scent / smell / guff / pong is rarely mentioned in nursery descriptions ::)
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But does it smell?
It's very noticable that scent / smell / guff / pong is rarely mentioned in nursery descriptions ::)
Not really. Usually Amorphophallus flower for 3-5 days but none of these days I noticed any smell. It is on my window sill in the living room so if it had some smell I would have noticed it. But to be honest, with an Amorphophallus I don't really mind if it doesn't smell, as far as I know only a handfull species from that genus smell pleasant, the rest smell like rotting meat or similar.
Today however I did notice a strong smell on one of my forms of Arisaema amurense (the one on the picture underneath) but I honestly can't describe it other than "pungent but not unpleasant and a bit spicy".... :-\
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Today however I did notice a strong smell on one of my forms of Arisaema amurense (the one on the picture underneath) but I honestly can't describe it other than "pungent but not unpleasant and a bit spicy".... :-\
I have forms of A. amurense with rather unpleasant aroma of "wet dog".
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Love the Amorphophallus ongsakuliiis, Pascal. I grow A. obscurus, another tiny member of the genus. Little if any odor, especially compared to the larger species (and you don't have to go all the way to titanum to get really smelly....).
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This one is getting smaller each year.
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My A. candidissimum is also getting smaller each year - and later, not up until well after mid summer last time but I realized its place is very dry after successive years of drought and the soil is dust dry over concrete dry, beneath about 5cm. I think it has simply not been able to get roots well down and growing properly. I've moved most of it and hope for better things. But we have now had good rain for the first time in maybe 4 years so many things should do better from the coming spring.
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One of the Arisaemas in the same bed was attached by a root mealy bug. I dug it up and treated and replanted and that one is doing fine. I'm think I may have to have a look at the A. candidissimum to see if there is another infestation.
See:
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MealyBugs
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Little Arisaema flavum has made its late appearance again.
This little plant is a proper coloniser.
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Little Arisaema flavum has made its late appearance again.
This little plant is a proper coloniser.
One I like very much, especially when it has its round heads of red fruits. :) I have 2 forms. The taller is about 60cms high and the other, ssp. abbreviatum, only 10-12cms. The flowers on both are more yellow than in your picture Fred.
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That's as yellow as mine gets Lesley.
They get to about 20cms.
Great to get 5 in a 4" square pot ;D
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How yellow is yellow
this is mine yesterday
Roland
Arisaema flavum
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How yellow is yellow
This would be a good yellow Roland, a Chris Chadwell collection from Pakistan, it is also one of the forms that produces nectar which is held in the spathe tube, quite unusual for Arisaema but Arisaema flavum is an odd one in the genus anyway generally regarded as one of the oldest and most primitive species. In general the Chinese forms tend to go more towards green, the Tibetan form and the Yemen form are a clear yellow. The one from Fred reminds me of a Chen Yi import under the number A-55, do you know the origin Fred?
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Really a beauty Pascal
best yellow I have ever seen
do you have later spare seeds ???
I never bought this one from Chen Yi
Roland
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sauromatum venosum flowering in my garden.
they flower most years..horrid smell though..
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That's a great colour Roland. I can't say mine is as yellow as THAT and my little one is more the shape of Fred's, but the taller spath is more upright. Obvioulsy there's a lot of variation in this species. I'm sorry I haven't taken pictures of either plant yet, though I've had them longer than any other species except candidissimum.
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Roland, I will try to make pictures of the Tibetan and Yemen form, the colour of both is almost as good but the shape is different, the Tibetan form has a long spathe blade that points forward, like a roof. It is also much bigger about 1 m or more tall with currently 3 leaves for the flowering plants. Because of its wide distribution it is inevitable flavum is variable, it occurs from W China along the Himalayas all the way to Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Ethiopia. Some forms have erect fruits, some have recurved. Some produce nectar, some don't. Usually I take off the seedheads of my Arisaema to avoid hybrids but I will try to self-pollinate the Chadwell collection this year. But all forms have their charm, the greener small ones certainly too.
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Lesley
it was the plant from Pascal
but it is the best I have ever seen
Roland
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Now that's yellow Pascal.
Mine was an ebay buy.... paid about £3 last year and have about 18 plants now
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That is an impressive yellow. I was so disappointed with the pathetic flowers and greeny yellow on mine that I have I think killed it off over the years. I'd imagine there are a couple still out there somewhere in the garden though, although they no longer flower if they do. If it had proper yellow flowers I would definitely have kept it. Excellent to see that there actually ARE good yellows out there. Many of the ones we have in Aus are the ssp abbreviatum too though, so they're smaller and more pathetic than the other forms. I've only ever seen the species here in my garden, so only have the smaller form to go by. ::)
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Pascal, an amazing yellow color!
Last year I had good germination on Arisaema yunnanense, from Lijang, China, Pilous seed. I planted them out and they remained in growth up until late summer. Have been waiting for any signs of life this spring, and finally a few have showed up; I upload a photo showing one tiny little cluster of seedlings. The description said "open places, pale yellow". Does anyone have a photo of this species they can post, or have any cultural advice regarding this species. I heard it comes from sunny drier spots, much like A. flavum.
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This is to follow up on a thread I started about finally getting seed on Arisaema heterophyllum (a giant 6' or 2 meter tall form); I showed a photo taken last winter where I chopped the very slow-to-ripen seed head out of ice and snow, then thawed and sowed the seed, overwintering the pot indoors on a windowsill. I'm pleased that I had 10 seedlings appear, probably need to set them out someplace soon.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4813.0
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Wow Fred
This is money investment
in one year from £3 to £104
1700% profit ???
best investment of this year
Roland
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Arisaema ciliatum var. liubaense in flower now. It has grown really tall this year. Some of the leaves are striped just like the spathe.
Arisaema ciliatum var. liubaense
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Yes Gunilla
This is still a wow plant
spectacular
Roland
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Last year I had good germination on Arisaema yunnanense, from Lijang, China, Pilous seed. ... Does anyone have a photo of this species they can post, or have any cultural advice regarding this species. I heard it comes from sunny drier spots, much like A. flavum.
This is what I have as Arisaema yunnanense, just opening up. They came from Chen Yi, and I don't think they are the right thing. I'll photograph it again when the leaves unfurl.
As for culture, I grow almost all my Arisaema in pots, I use a mixture of ericaceous compost and perlite, with extra perlite under the tuber.
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Arisaema yunnanense, just opening up. I've got two in the pot, came from Chen Yi, so I hope they are the right thing. I'll photograph it again when the leaves unfurl.
As for culture, I grow almost all my Arisaema in pots, I use a mixture of ericaceous compost and perlite, with extra perlite under the tuber. I've not done anything different with this species.
Diane, thanks for showing. How tall is your plant shown in the photo? Does the foliage get taller?
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Sorry Diane but that is not Arisaema yunnanense but a member of section Sinarisaema, I count at least 5 leaflets that will form a radiatisect leaf. Yunnanense has a single tripartite leaf with a forward pointing spathe blade and an appendix that is not erect and enclosed but exerted from the spathe and slowly getting thin. For pictures, see: http://www.aroid.org/genera/arisaema/herold/Pages/aryunn.php
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Sorry Diane but that is not Arisaema yunnanense but a member of section Sinarisaema, I count at least 5 leaflets that will form a radiatisect leaf.
Thanks Pascal, I was suspicious when I saw the leaf emerging with a narrow leaflet rising up first. There's another tuber in the pot, I think this is something different as well, but at the moment is still just a shoot. Do you have any ideas what the pictured one might be?
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Join the club Diane, you are not the first getting a different plant from what you expected from the lady in China.
As for the ID of your plant, I simply don't know. I have seen so many Sinarisaema from China that don't fit the box of one of the known species that I think it would take a lifetime to sort out the mess of consanguineum, ciliatum and many other species. Guestimate? A. consanguineum in one of its forms. But don't be surprised to find stolons at the end of the season and it is a green form of ciliatum liubaense, if that exists.....
Some background info, ciliatum was described from a herbarium specimen by Li Heng, the holotype is in RBGE. It was not known at that time if it was stoloniferous or not. The holotype is a small plant of about 25 cm with a comparetively big flower which indeed has noticeable ciliae. The connection "Arisaema ciliatum = stoloniferous" was made afterwards based on "dark striped Sinarisaema with ciliae must be ciliatum and is stoloniferous so ciliatum is stoloniferous". This practise in itself is not unusual in taxonomy but a little bit hard to prove unless you find plants exactly like the holotype at the holotype location that are stoloniferous. But I have seen all green plants without ciliae that are stoloniferous, I have seen plants with ciliae but non-stoloniferous so I have lost it a bit..... Much work still needed in this group of radiatisect species from China, certainly if it is near impossible to find stable characters to distinguish species on.
To show you what I mean, the plant underneath has tiny ciliae, is stoloniferous but is all green, has an extremely long spathe tip upto 30 cm in length and an extraordinary clavate appendix tip. I have no idea what it is but the appendix does not fit ciliatum at all..... And who knows, maybe it is just a funny variant in a population. Ciliatum in most populations in the wild has forms with and without ciliae growing together and everything in between so is it worth recognising the "naked" form as ciliatum var. liubaense? Maybe not...
PS. One thing it definitely is not and that is A. erubescens, a name you will often find in Chinese literature and they stubbornly keep on using for consanguineum in China. Erubescens however is a strict endemic from Nepal but unfortunately according to the FOC, the species consanguineum no longer exists and is reduced to a synonym of erubescens. So don't try to key out any Arisaema from section Sinarisaema with the FOC is my advice..... ;)
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Roland, as promised a picture of the Tibetan form of Arisaema flavum. The flowers open like the right one, the yellow gets more intense after a few days as you can see in the left one. This form has an unusually large spathe blade. According to the person who collected it it does flower in its native country more or less before it leaves unfurl, probably because of the drier soil and the time it takes for the monsoon to reach Tibet. In cultivation it behaves just like any other form and flowers with the leaves completely unfurled. In my collection it gets about a meter tall.
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Join the club Diane, you are not the first getting a different plant from what you expected from the lady in China
;D ;D ;D and it's not the first time I have got a different plant from that lady. But it's often something interesting. I'm waiting to see what else comes from the same pot. I realise now there are two other shoots.
Thanks Pascal, it's really interesting to hear your thoughts.
I'm also getting more and more confused about Aa consanguineum and ciliatum in its forms. If it is true that A consanguineum is not stoloniferous, then I'm beginning to think I have never seen consanguineum and that A ciliatum is much more commonly grown, and often with the name consanguineum.
Can I repost here for the sake of keeping this discussion together, Arisaema from the AGS Summer North show.
These pictures are of a pot labelled A consanguineum. Looking at the pot, this looks like it is propagating from stolons, making it ciliatum. No ciliae, so it's var liubaense, that's my reasoning.
As I understand it, var liubaense was named by Gouda and Gusman from one group of seedlings that was found to be very similar, and distributed under the single collection number of CT 369. The plants that I have seen have a spathe which is dark brown with white stripes. Does var liubaense always have this colouring?
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These pictures are of a pot labelled A consanguineum. Looking at the pot, this looks like it is propagating from stolons, making it ciliatum. No ciliae, so it's var liubaense, that's my reasoning.
As I understand it, var liubaense was named by Gouda and Gusman from one group of seedlings that was found to be very similar, and distributed under the single collection number of CT 369. The plants that I have seen have a spathe which is dark brown with white stripes. Does var liubaense always have this colouring?
Diane, your reasoning is (by current literature) correct.
Not sure what var. liubaense should look like as far as colouring, I don't have the article at hand, still in a box unpacked after I moved house. CT stands for Carla Theune from Leiden Botanic Garden. CT369 was indeed one of a bunch of collection numbers that turned out to be similar so were lumped together and marketed by the Dutch wholesale company Hoog & Dix under CT369. The one I have grown I bought from Paul Christian but had to destroy it many years ago due to virus. Since then I had several similar looking plants from China under various numbers but most were dark purple striped and I guess that many var. liubaense currently on the market are similar imports. Given its prolific nature it is one of the fastest spreading Chen Yi Arisaema in cultivation. Plus it hybridises easily which make proper identifications even more difficult.
Var. liubaense is basically described as the "naked" form of ciliatum and was named after the nearby town where CT369 and the other numbers were collected (Liuba in Sichuan Province). Odd in a way because the variety then is "the variety which lacks the defining character the species is named after....".... ???
Because it seems just one end of the variational range for ciliae size I have never recognised this variety but any standard striped radiatisect Arisaema from China producing stolons and lacking ciliae is var. liubaense unless it has some other unusual characters. So in that sense yes, there is a lot of ciliatum in cultivation if you follow Gouda & Gusman in their reasoning.....
The question is how many "pure" CT369 are still around. If I remember correctly the big group at Utrecht Botanic Garden is from the original introduction but because Sinarisaema are very susceptible to virus I am reducing the number of species I grow and only retain the interesting species. Ciliatum is not one of them....
The original Arisaema consanguineum from Nepal is unstriped green, sometimes tinged purple and has distinct drooptips on the leaflets.
The forms from Arunachal Pradesh further to the east get a dark spathe blade but wether the striped plants are also consanguineum and how the transition from evenly coloured to striped forms would then occur only proper fieldwork can answer.
The first picture in this link is pretty close to what consanguineum looks like:
www.gds-staudenfreunde.de/public/index/rubrik/Fachgruppe%20Blumenzwiebeln%20und%20Rhizome/unterrubrik/Bildersammlung
One of the other pictures shows the group of var. liubaense also at Utrecht Botanic Garden.
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Two more arisaemas in flower now
1. Received as Arisaema dracontium, but doesn't match the description in the Gusmans' book (any ideas of what it is?)
2. Arisaema jaquemontii
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LIke the first very much Oleg. It almost looks pink. :)
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a couple of arisaemas in my garden just now
Arisaema erubescens-I think.JPG
029.JPG
arisaema jaqumontii- I think.JPG
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Paul, your jacquemontii is indeed jacquemontii, the plants on the first 2 pictures however belong to the ciliatum group. Arisaema erubescens doesn't occur in China (it only grows in Nepal) and usually has flowers in shades of brown or brown green with broader stripes. It has less leaflets which are shiny and more narrow. The petiole and peduncle are also heavily striated in shades of brown or orange or salmon pink. In the wild it often flowers before the leaves, attached an example of true erubescens.
By the look of them I assume you got these plants directly or indirectly from China which usually means Chen Yi has been the source. Chen Yi simply named her plants based on the FOC and then names such as erubescens start to circulate for Chinese plants but true erubescens is very rare in cultivation, also because it has never been commercially available. The main author of the Arisaema treatment of the FOC, Li Heng, persists in using the name erubescens for some Chinese taxa despite efforts by both Guy Gusman and myself to convince her that view is incorrect.
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Thanks Pascal, I shall give the A cilliatum group a new label, both it and the jaqumontii, came either from Pottertons, Edrom, or AGS seed, I shall have to dig round to find the origional label :-\, I have never bought directly from Chen Yi as yet
This is another clump which did come from Pottertons,
and what I think is A speciosum, In which case I think it came from the Wisley shop a few years ago.
Regards PETER :P
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A few days in flower
one of my favourites
Arisaema saxatille
on the first picture male and female flower
Roland
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That's beautifull Roland :D
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I absolutely agree. Almost wraith-like in its whiteness. Something from a ballet perhaps? :D
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Hello Lesley
Yes I love this one and tried to pollinate it last year :-[
I try it again this year :)
Roland
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On page 15 of this thread I posted the picture of Arisaema asperatum. The flower is over already but another Arisaema asperatum from another source has just open its bud. The next two pictures show the difference in leaves colouration: the first with splashes of broun (as shown in the Gusmans' book), the second with clearly seen broum rim.
And finally still another misnamed plant, received as Arisaema urashima but looks Arisaema ciliatum
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Pinellia pedatisecta pushing up spathes like nobodies business at present.
I like this one, the 7 - 11 lanceolate leaves are attractive.
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Be careful with most Pinellia's
before you know you have a million plants
almost impossible to kill
But if you have plenty of space they are beautiful
Roland
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Photo of Arisaema amurense 'Jagged Edge' in flower earlier this year, and in green fruit now. This was collected by Darrell Probst, selected for the unusual leaf shape. In the second photo, the mottled leaf on the right is Diphylleia cymosa.
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Mark,
Is that an official cultivar name for this plant? I have been growing it for over 10 years now as simply A. amurense "frilled leaf". Orginally bought from Crûg Farm who, as far as I now, got it from a nursery in Japan. I probably can ask a fellow Japanese collector to confirm but if my memory serves me right, it has long been in cultivation there. Any idea where Darrel Probst got it from?
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It is my understanding that Darrell Probst collected this in Japan? or Korea?, he told me, but I've forgotten; it bears one of his Cobblewood (the name of his nursery) collection numbers that he gives to all items that he actually collects, listed as A. amurense CPC 9.26.97.6. If I'm reading his Cobblewood Plant Collection number correctly, he collected this in 1997. The name 'Jagged Edge' was coined by Darrell.
Even the young seedlings have the jagged edge :D
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Tiny Arisaema jingdongense
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Tiny Arisaema jingdongense
Oleg, your plant is more likely one of the naked green forms of ciliatum. Part of the description of jingdongense from the new upcoming FOC:
Leaf solitary; petiole greenish, unmarked, ca. 65 cm, proximal 3/4 sheathing into pseudostem; leaf blade radiate; leaflets 7, sessile, pale green abaxially, deep green adaxially, oblong-lanceolate, 78 × 1.41.6 cm, margin entire, apex acuminate. Peduncle shorter than petioles, ca. 55 cm × 2.53 mm. Spathe yellowish, without white stripes; tube cylindric, ca. 4 cm × 9 mm, recurved at mouth; limb arching, triangular-oblong, ca. 7.5 × 3 cm, apex acuminate with a filiform tail 45 cm.
So Arisaema jingdongense is not really a small species and should be yellow(-ish) flowering. I have seen pictures of what they regard jingdongense at a symposium and it is somewhat transluscent yellow.
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Some plants currently flowering in my collection. The flavum is the form that occurs in the mountains of Yemen and South Arabia. A very robust form with a good yellow flower. The Arisaema franchetianum is the classic form that occurs in a red-brown striped form like this and a purple striped form. Both have the very lush, soft green leaves. The last 2 are of a species I posted a picture earlier in this thread, one of the (sub-)tropical species with the hairy appendices. Fully expanded the brush like appendix can be as long as 20 cm but is still a bunch of wires when the flower just opens.
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These showed up a couple of weeks ago, can anyone confirm that both are A. wilsonii?
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Arisaema taiwanense from a cw MacDougall seed.
johnw
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Arisaema consanguineum a clone with variegated leaf from Ellen Hornig's Nursery in New York State. This one could be called "Perfect Wave".
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Nice one Arnold, I love the stem mottling. I tried one of Ellen's A. consanguineum once, tubers given to me by a friend, but they didn't winter over :'(
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Speciosum var. mirabile flowers unusually late this year but worth the wait. This var. is easily distinguished from normal speciosum by the rough, verrucose appendix. In normal speciosum this is smooth.The other one is one of the monstrosities of the Arisaema world with a highly inflated spathe and a spadix appendix in desperate need of one of those blue pills.... I am still not sure about the status of this one, definitely a member of section Franchetiana but not sure if it can be placed in one of the known species, it could be an undescribed one.
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Pascal, those are truly bizarre, yet fantastic... the genus Arisaema seems to have a sense of humor.
A couple months ago I received a plant of Pinellia cordata 'Yamazakii' (and yes, I'm familiar with the warning about Pinellia spreading), a form I had before but lost. When given to me, the pretty foliage was dark green and veined whitish. Kept it potted for a few weeks, then divided it in half, gave one to a friend, and planted mine out... it instantly went dormant. About a week ago, it resurfaced and started reblooming. The tiny spathed flowers are scented just like bubblegum!
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Pascal, those are truly bizarre, yet fantastic... the genus Arisaema seems to have a sense of humor.
A couple months ago I received a plant of Pinellia cordata 'Yamazakii' (and yes, I'm familiar with the warning about Pinellia spreading), a form I had before but lost. When given to me, the pretty foliage was dark green and veined whitish. Kept it potted for a few weeks, then divided it in half, gave one to a friend, and planted mine out... it instantly went dormant. About a week ago, it resurfaced and started reblooming. The tiny spathed flowers are scented just like bubblegum!
Mark,
From what I know the proper cultivar name should be "Yamazaki" with only one "i" at the end. If you have the right one it should be a much bigger form than the usual cordata, the plants I grow of this cultivar have leaves that reach a length of some 25 cm. It is presumed to be a polyploïd but not often the right plant is cultivated, usually it is the smaller normal form that hides under that name. The pineapple smell of the flowers (at least, that's what I think it smells like) is indeed a nice attribute. I believe Ellen Hornig was one of the first to introduce this cultivar into cultivation.
But yes, Pinellia can become a bit weedy. I have several seedlings popping up of the purple form of tripartita from discarded soil of previous years. The ones that produce viable seeds (tripartita and pedatisecta) can be a real menace. Ternata and cordata multiply by bulblets and are easier to control, peltata is the least invasive but I can think of worse weeds.... ;)
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Mark,
From what I know the proper cultivar name should be "Yamazaki" with only one "i" at the end. If you have the right one it should be a much bigger form than the usual cordata, the plants I grow of this cultivar have leaves that reach a length of some 25 cm. It is presumed to be a polyploïd but not often the right plant is cultivated, usually it is the smaller normal form that hides under that name. The pineapple smell of the flowers (at least, that's what I think it smells like) is indeed a nice attribute. I believe Ellen Hornig was one of the first to introduce this cultivar into cultivation.
But yes, Pinellia can become a bit weedy. I have several seedlings popping up of the purple form of tripartita from discarded soil of previous years. The ones that produce viable seeds (tripartita and pedatisecta) can be a real menace. Ternata and cordata multiply by bulblets and are easier to control, peltata is the least invasive but I can think of worse weeds.... ;)
Thanks Pascal... I will check in with the Roy Herald (not Ray) to see what he can tell me about this plant, he was my source. Could it also be that this is a young immature plant? But probably as you suggest, it's a small form, and who knows the real name. I like that these flower late in the season. I also have tripartita or pedatisecta... too lazy at the moment to go run outside and verify the label, so far after several years it hasn't gotten out of hand, it is growing in a rather dry shady spot. But I'll keep an eye on these ;D
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I also have tripartita or pedatisecta... too lazy at the moment to go run outside and verify the label, so far after several years it hasn't gotten out of hand, it is growing in a rather dry shady spot. But I'll keep an eye on these ;D
And you call yourself an amateur botanist?! Grin..... ;D
Tripartita and pedatisecta, how many clues do you want your plant names to have? You don't need to check labels to know which of the 2 you have..... ;)
PS. Tripartita I have never found to have a scent, pedatisecta has a strong scent that is reminiscent of super glue (toluene). Pinellia peltata is an introduction from Jim Waddick and is stoloniferous but I have not tested it yet for winter hardiness so don't know how it behaves in the open garden.
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I also have tripartita or pedatisecta... too lazy at the moment to go run outside and verify the label, so far after several years it hasn't gotten out of hand, it is growing in a rather dry shady spot. But I'll keep an eye on these ;D
And you call yourself an amateur botanist?! Grin..... ;D
Tripartita and pedatisecta, how many clues do you want your plant names to have? You don't need to check labels to know which of the 2 you have..... ;)
I'm being lazy, not wanting to go out in the heat again, but since you shamed me into doing so, I'll put on my running shoes ;D I'm pretty sure I have pedatisecta... I just don't pay much attention to this plant. Be right back :D
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Just checked, it is P. pedatisecta. I walked over to the spot intending to take a picture, I saw the plant flowering about a month ago, but it's an area I can barely reach with a hose thus rarely gets watered, and the plants are nowhere to be found above ground now. Also noticed lots of tunneling, terrible problem with moles this year, surprising given that it is such a hot and dry year.
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Well, you might consider moving it to a different place in your garden as it can flower the entire season if given sufficient moisture like all other Pinellia in cultivation. And it is relatively easy to take off the seedheads after flowering to avoid it spreading.
For those interested, according to the upcoming FOC there should be 9 Pinellia species: P. pedatisecta, P. tripartita, P. yaoluopingensis, P. ternata, P. peltata, P. polyphylla, P. integrifolia, P. cordata and P. fujianensis.
That last species "may" be the cordata type plant with green leaves and purplish flowers that is also in cultivation but I haven't been able to make a copy of the publication yet.
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First Arum flowering for spring here in my garden is Arum creticum.
Arisaema are all stiring in their pots, and other Arums are starting to bud.
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A tiny Typhonium is flowering for me. The whole flower above ground is just 10 cm high - no scent detectable. ;)
I got it without a species name as 'Typhonium sp. Thailand'. Does anyone have an idea about this species?
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To be sure a picture of the naughty bits is needed but your plant is most likely Typhonium varians, one of the few species that can also have highly spotted leaves.
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This morning a terrible stench nearly knocked me down when I went to the backyard - thought my neighbours who make a construction work had a serious problem with their sewage system, but quickly I found out the stench was not their fault.
It was just the first flower of a seedling of Arum pictum. Seems more beautiful the specimen more it smells....
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beautifull Hans, earlier than in Corsica !
Is it the plant from mallorca ?
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Hi Fred,
yes, this are seedlings of a very fine population from Mallorca.
A few years ago I collected seeds of this species without seeing the leaves, happy about the few resulting plants I visited the same location last year to have a further look:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3373.msg113023#msg113023
More common are less marked leaves as Thomas showed here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2610.msg60782#msg60782
This plants are still in my seedling area - so watered, those in the garden are still completly dormant.
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From today - Biarum ditschianum
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Hans, it is to be hoped that your neighbours are not cursing you for YOUR leaky sewage system. ;D
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Hans, it is to be hoped that your neighbours are not cursing you for YOUR leaky sewage system. ;D
Or it did occur to me that the neighbours might be angry with their builder... thinking they DID have a problem with the drains! ::)
Embarrassing problems every which way! ;D
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;D - there was extreme stench only the first day - maybe finally it came from the neighbours... ;D ;)
Here a pic of the leaves of those seedlings.
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Arisaema thunbergii ssp. autumnale, an autumn-flowering endemic from Taiwan. Temperate but unfortunately not hardy so either for the glasshouse or pot cultivation
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A nice sized spud!
My daughter trying to lift a tuber of Amorphophallus konjac.
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:o ::) :o Incredible !
I suppose you already got flowers ??
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I would love to claim this was one of mine, but, mine are a quarter of the size and have not flowered for me yet.
This is one of many grown by a friend in greenhouse conditions. They have flowers every year and grow taller than me! To florish here in Christchurch they need that extra warmth and protection.
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Oddly enough Amorphophallus konjac is one of the few species of this genus that can be planted outside and is hardy from zone 7b onwards. I know of a group planted in a garden near the arboretum in Wageningen (Netherlands) that has survived for years out in the open and has flowered.
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You wouldhave to plant it deep though, mine died from frost in its 3rd year, planted in a shrubtub overwinterd in a garage :'(
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Lots of chips in that one Doug. You'd need a fish the size of a large shark to go with them. ;D
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Some Arum italicum and Arum pictum fotos taken in the local mountains yesterday. Arum italicum is a common weed but some forms might be interesting. Sometimes black spotted plants occure - does anyone know if this is stable? They do not look ill...
First two pics show common marked plants, often leaves are plain green.
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Hi Hans, there were numerous plants of Arum marmoratum with similar black-marked leaves growing around my old workplace. Casual observation over 12 years suggested the plants with these marks were stable from year to year, but I can't swear to it.
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Hi Hans, there were numerous plants of Arum marmoratum with similar black-marked leaves growing around my old workplace. Casual observation over 12 years suggested the plants with these marks were stable from year to year, but I can't swear to it.
Darren we have them here as well and the one with the most spots have quite dark coloured flowers as well.
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Arums like those pictured are cultivated here in the UK, I have one called "Chameleon" which is stable and I know a large stand of a plant similar to the picture "italicum nice marked" which would have been planted in the 1960s /70s or earlier
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Thanks Darren, Dave and Peter - I found the plants all in a very small area close together (maybe a diameter of 100m ), so I was a bit surprised about the variability - but I admit I did not pay too much attention on Arum italicum as it was (is?) a very persistent weed in my garden.
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I find it difficult to eliminate too Hans, I dig out the tubers and tiny offsetts come up again in large patches. It is handsome though!
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Here are some Aroids from Iran photographed during three trips in 2008, 2009 and 2010:
Biarum straussii in fruit, Zagros;
Eminium heterophyllum;
Eminium aff. lehmanii possibly new species, Zagros Mountains;
Eminium alberti? habitat, Eastern Elburz Mts.;
Eminium alberti? habitat, Eastern Elburz Mts.;
Eminium aff. lehmanii possibly new species, Zagros Mountains.
http://keesjan.smugmug.com (botanical trips)
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Hi,
I have several small tubers of Amorphophalus Konjac and Sauromatum Venosum going spare, I would like to exchange for small tubers of any Arisaema or non-tropical Amorphophalus species not on my grow list (below),
Amorphophallus
Albus
Bulbifer
Konjac
Arisaema
Amurense
Ciliatum var Liubaense
Consanguineum
Costatum
Fargesii
Flavum
Franchetianum
Lichiangense
Tortuosum
Urashima Gorgonidium
contact me if interested,
thanks,
James
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Kees - beautiful, nothing like seeing them in their habitat.
Looking good at the moment, Arisaema speciosum and A.exappendiculatum which has become a nice weed in the woodland.
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A time of plenty - two more weirdos for the collector of weird plants ;)
Amorphophallus bulbifer and
Amorphophallus richardsii.
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Some pictures of Eminium spiculatum from the Negev desert (grows next to Iris mariae).
I like it- it does not smell bad ;D
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Kees and Miriam what super plants. Thanks for showing them,I just wish they would grow with me.
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that looks fantastic Mirium, I've not tried that one but I shall keep my eyes open for seeds
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Superb Miriam !
I've missed them but I really like this family... except the smelling ;)
I sow some seeds but still waiting for germination....
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Superb picture, Miriam - really beautiful Eminium!
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Arisaema elephas?
I have 3 specimens of this species - anyway what I think is the same species. I can't remember where I got it.
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Arum korolkowii
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Delicate colour, Arnold.
And hearkening back to earlier on the page (i.e last year's postings).... that Eminium is glorious. I've never seen an Eminium in person..... that one sort of looks like a Dracunculus (leaves) crossed with a Biarum crossed with an Arum. Very cool. 8)
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Not sure if thats a A.elephas Hoy.If it's from Chen yi it can be almost anything....well..pheraps we can lock out A.flavum :D
Here a pic of somthing i have named A.elephas......//Jonny
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Arum palaestinum. This is a foul smelling one.
The tiny projects trap pollinators until the flower ripens then allows them to escape to carry pollen to another flower.
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Very nice pictures Arnold
good details
R
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Roland, Thanks.
I've heard of two form of this one pleasantly scent and the other badly scented.
I have the badly scented variety.
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Arisaema sikokianum is the first one to flower here. I love it! ;D
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Arum pictum a really foul smelling one in flower now
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Arum pictum a really foul smelling one in flower now
A reminder to me to stay with the Arisaema... they're ok on the nostrils
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Here a photo for a question. I got this from Janis Ruksans as Arum gratum, but although it matches the description of the species in size and shape, it doesn't for the colour, which should be ' a washed purple' according to Boyce.
Janis, your comment is appreciated, if you read this
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Angelo I see your remarks regarding the colour of Arum gratum and would say that I had a very large collection of wild collected species which I swapped with numerous 'experts' .I just called them sp. and pictures came back with all sorts of names attached. I would think yours fall within the natural variation of colour. They seem as confused as biarums.
Here is an Arum dioscoridis in flower today.
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Thats a stunner Tony. :o :o 8)
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a couple more in flower
Arum balansanum this is only about 10cms tall
Arum dioscoridis
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Very special Tony, :o
Are these perfumed also?
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Very special Tony, :o
Are these perfumed also?
I think the dioscoridis is attractive if you are a fly!! The balansanum I cannot detect anything.
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Hi Tony,
I have tried Arum dioscoridis a couple of times in the garden but lost it through the winter. Are yours in pots and under cover in the winter?
I really like these and Dranunculus vulgaris but lost that in the same way also.
Graham
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Here is my dioscoridis
John B
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Hi Tony,
I have tried Arum dioscoridis a couple of times in the garden but lost it through the winter. Are yours in pots and under cover in the winter?
I really like these and Dranunculus vulgaris but lost that in the same way also.
Graham
Graham
all my own collected species are in pots, I lose the labels in the garden but over the years I have made the mistake of planting spares in the garden and now they are a terrible weed and we are trying to get rid of them with glycophosphate.(same with podophyllum!!) They are impossible to dig out and also self seed. The dracunculus has also been hardy in the garden for about 20 years . The problem I faced was the winter of 2011 was very hard and the ones in pots got frozen and I had a lot of losses.
One from Lake abant in NW Turkey
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Thanks Tony,
The conditions I put them in mustn't have been just right, which clearly isn't a problem for you.
As Maggi said in the thread on my Podophylum delavayi which I have coming up all over a raised bed 'one man's weed is another man's flower'!
Graham
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Arum rupicola from Zelve in Central Turkey
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A. rupicola WOW :o, what an amazing colour, 8) 8)
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First time in flower in my garden. Came from turkey. But what is it? Also Arum rupicola???
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Hagen
yes it is A. rupicola
First biarum in flower
Biarum tenuifolium
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I can tell you the same, Maggi. Good flowering on my ones ;)
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Here's Eminium albertii.
Alex
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A real dwarf Amorphophallus showing it's cute leaves about 5 cm high (leaf span is about as much) - A. myosuroides.
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A fascinating plant Thomas. Very compact and manageable, its white spathes ( ?) are equally delicate and most interesting. What are the conditions it needs please?
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Ron,
I got the bulbs of A. myosuroides this year so I don't have much experience. So far they seem to be happy in a loose mix of soil, perlite and some sand - they get some morning sun and never dry out much. As far as I know they should be kept warm in winter and get some occasional watering because the tiny bulbs would dry out easily otherwise. I hope to see a flower soon. :D
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. I hope to see a flower soon. :D
I hope you do too Thomas. I think this may become a very popular species eventually. ;D ;D
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Typhonium horsfieldii 'Red Stem' is flowering.
A very handsome aroid and the flowers are only smelling (somehow like a public toilet :P) if I stick my nose pretty close to it. ;)
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Thomas,
That's a great Typhonium. Not a species I've come across before. I love the leaves.
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Special Thomas
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Typhonium horsfieldii 'Red Stem' is flowering.
Another well grown, very interesting plant Thomas. 8) It seems to be in a smallish (4" ?) pot. How many years from seed to flowering please?
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Thank you all - I'm very delighted with this Typhonium myself. :D
It's within a 9 cm pot which seemed sufficient for the bulb I got last winter (so I don't know how long it takes to flower from seed).
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Jim Waddick posted about this article and pictures by Wilbert Hettersheid ( reposted from an Aroid email group) on the PBS list..... I just had to repost it again here... this is one furry amorphphallus...
[attachurl=1]
P.S. Jim called it a 'Hairy Scary' - I think we can see what he meant..... kind of a cute pink though.....
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A beauty, quite interesting with it's fluffy spadix! :D
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Two new pictures for a sleeping Topic, dormancy has past. ;)
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Sauromatum (Typhonium) venosum and a second tuber of Amorphophallus konjac are in flower now.
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Very busy now in garden an long time not checjked forum but few Aroids are blooming now
Eminium koenianum from Turkey
Arum conophalloides caudatum - collected in Turkey, too
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three arums in flower now
Arum dioscoridis
Arum pictum
Arum balansanum
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Arisaema sp. ???
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Looks like A. lichiangensis
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Oron thanks for identification :)
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Zantedeschia pentlandii came originally from Charles Craib in South Africa. These do not set seeds for me, so I may have all one clone. They do seem to offset readily.
[attach=1]
Jim
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Need to get caught up on this topic, some stunning stuff being shown.
This is Pinellia cordata 'Yamazakii', a tiny well-behaved form, the cutest little thing. It emerges so late (little over a week ago) I always think I've lost it; for me it stays as a small clump, with cute hooded blooms and skywards spadices. The best part, the flowers give of a strong aroma like sweet juicy-fruit bubblegum!
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
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My Zantedeschia jucunda is not doing well, even though grown under the same conditions as my Z. pentlandii (which is doing very well). That is, bone dry over winter, temps 45-55 F/ +7 to 13 C, outdoors with regular watering in summer. Any suggestions, anyone?
Jim
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could somebody have a look at my Arum italicum (posting #54) (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10558.msg278612#msg278612) with spots on the spatha and dark blotches on the leaves. i posted in the wrong forum ;D ;).
has anybody seen such form in wild. could it be a hybrid or a local variety in the wild?
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It is a hybrid,
Arum maculatum x italicum, it is known for quite some time in cultivation.
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thx oron...does a cultivar name exist for this hybrid? how sure is the hybrid status? i ask, because the flowering time between A. maculatum + A. italicum is so different. A. maculatum is fruiting now, while A. italicum starts flowering. so a natural hybridisation should be excluded.
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I have grown Arum dioscoridis for a few years but have not had a flower before. This year there are three flowers the first, which has gone over and the current flower both had or have the spathe within a spathe effect, is that common for this species?
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Melvyn,
Never seen something like that.
I guess you can name it A. dioscoridis 'Flore pleno'... ;)
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I wonder if that makes it doubly stinky, Melvyn? ;)
Ian takes great delight in growing these near the back door - most here are more solidly coloured than your prettily speckled version - can't say though that we have ever noticed any sort of doubling or extra parts.
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You see it more often in other aroids
Here it was never stable :o
Roland
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A new aroid for me is Spathantheum orbignyanum. Nice leaf so far but I'm hoping for an inflorescense as well.
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A new aroid for me is Spathantheum orbignyanum. Nice leaf so far but I'm hoping for an inflorescense as well.
Does this plant not flower before the leaf emerges? :-\
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I think you're right Maggi. So maybe I have to hope for next year.
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Biarum pyrami in flower today
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Biarum pyrami in flower today
Isn't that a great colour? Like a piece of velvet fabric.
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Lovely to see that Tony - I look forward to seeing mine flower in a few years!
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wow, as said, nice colour!
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Biarum are starting :)
I guess this one is B. aleppicum....
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Hello Biarum growers.
Not sure where to go with this question but since the Biarum thread has been dormant for nearly a year this seems the better place. I would like to expand my biarum collection but at the moment I do not know where to look. The only available species seem to be B. davisii and B. marmarisense. Years ago it seemed easier to get B. tenuifolium and -abbreviatum, but not any more. I would be interested to grow some from seed. Can anyone suggest where to look?
For interest a picture of Biarum marmarisense, flowering some weeks ago and in leaf now
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Bart,
Elsewhere on the forum you will find Kurt Vickery's seed list (and bulb list). Kurt frequently lists many Biarum seed and I've always had good germination. If you contact him he will include you in distribution of further lists.
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Thanks Darren,
Had a quick look at his current list- that will keep me busy for a while! Great, thanks!
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Biarum davisii time now :)
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Lovely Biarum davisii,not one I can get to flower.
Here is Biarum auraniticum I have had for several years a plant from Oron.
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Superb plant !!! congratulations !
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Biarum davisii time now :)
:o Brilliant Fred , congratulations !
How do you folks get them in flower ? I try for many years without result .......
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Here is Biarum auraniticum I have had for several years a plant from Oron.
Very nice Tony and at least a Biarum that want's to flower ....
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never a flower on my davisii either but these tiny ones are just fascinating.
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they bloom every year here, without special treatment ???
Sunny place, dry in the summer, and love :) ;) ;D :-*
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I also love giving them ;D, but unfortunately there is a lack of sun and heat. In nine years, not a single flower! I have now decided to dispose of the pot Biarum davisii.
But it is comforting to read that others also goes so!
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This Biarum davisii was taken in 2005, never seen a flower since.
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Arum pictum is in flower now.
One flower is extraordinary this year.
It is an inflorescence with a small and a big spathe and one spadix.
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My favorite plant in wet soil and shade.
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Great plant, Egon - the fruits look like pine cones, don't they?
I believe it is best to sow the seeds fresh, and still in the sticky coating - http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Symplocarpus (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Symplocarpus)
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never seen that before Egon. Fascinating!
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My Symplocarpus blooms very early in spring. Seeds ripen now and need to be sown as soon as possible.
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Is thjs Biarum tenuifolium? Collected many years ago in the Peloponnese. It is planted in the garden and has survived the last three winters so is clearly very hardy.
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What a very attractive form. It looks like a plant of B. tenuifolium I've seen pix of from Sicily with similar, though not as pretty, colouring - and I think it's a variable plant.
I wish I knew more about these plants.
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You're right Maggy, not easy to name them as they are very variable.
You have to cut the 'flower' and to have a look inside.
here is what a friend of mine thinks to be Biarum kotschy, but it's from south Syria, where it's not supposed to grow
??
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An extraordinary event has just happened at Lyon's BG which holds an important aroids collection: the flowering of DRACONTIUM SPITTIERI. This species which is extremely rare in cultivation is native to Costa Rica. The tuber has been offered by the Botanic faculty of VIENNA in 2011. It's only the second time it flowers in Europe ( first one in VIENNA ). The tuber ( 14-20cm diameter ) produces a single umbrella like leaf towering at 2-4m high. The inflorescence is a spathe which can be 1,50-2m high and lasts not very long.
some pictures of this unusual plant for the aroids entusiasts.
JP
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Thank you Jean Patrick for sharing this pictures ! Great flower, congratulations to the team ;)
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Magnificent!
Can you imagine the excitement of first coming upon such a plant in the wild?!! :o :D
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A sweet scent in the greenhouse. Arum creticum is blooming.
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Biarum davisii time now :)
and 6 months later it's flowering here :D
cheers
fermi
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/9ajydyny.jpg)
Found this one growing wild in the far reaches of the wilds of the grounds here .
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Dracunculus vulgaris was in flower last week.
Amorphophallus konjac and Dracunculus canariensis are in flower now.
Amorphophallus konjac and Dracunculus vulgaris are aroid like ugly stinkers.
Dracunculus canariensis has a fresh sweet lemon like smell. Very pleasant. :)
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Helicodiceros muscivorus is in bloom since yesterday, luckily far enough from the house...
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The two late spring flowering species this morning;
Biarum tenuifolium ssp. zelebori and B. ditschianum [not open completely yet]
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Paul Barney of Edulis Plants has 'tweeted' (https://twitter.com/PaulEdulis/status/465952880919576576/photo/1)this photo of an Arisaema he collected some years ago in Mizoram.
Paul writes that Pascal B. has said he doesn't know of any like this in India - so it may well be a new species.
[attachimg=1]
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A. fimbriatum (http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/nagaikimuranokame/40195613.html) looks at least similar.
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Marcus Harvey has written about finding different colour forms of "Dragon Lily in Crete" on his website - here's a link:
http://hillviewrareplants.com.au/ramblings/scents-and-sensibilities-the-dragon-lily-of-crete (http://hillviewrareplants.com.au/ramblings/scents-and-sensibilities-the-dragon-lily-of-crete)
cheers
fermi
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Arisaema candidissimum
Why do the spathes always face the wrong direction.
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Not sure if this had been mentioned before, but it bears another link anyway -
David Scherberich has a fine set of photos here : https://www.flickr.com/photos/52033111@N08/with/14266857047/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52033111@N08/with/14266857047/) 8)
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Thank you for mentioning my pictures Maggi :) :) :)
I still have lots of them to upload to Flickr from a recent trip to Sichuan. I have seen some very interesting variation in leaves and inflorescences in Arisaema wilsonii, A. lobatum and A. dilatatum.
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I hope many will enjoy the photos, David. Your new additions will be something to look forward to seeing.
I know you have a link in your signature but I am aware that some people do not notice those ;)
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I love this smart little Pinellia cordata 'Yamazaki'. I assume it is named after the famous nurseryman and collector by the same name.
It seems perfectly hardy in the gardens of friends to whom we have given plants but has not had time to prove it is a bit of a pest. Note the bulbils forming on the leaves.
johnw
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Biarum in flower:
Biarum davisii (2 x)
Biarum marmarisense (2 x)
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Arum italicum a species that deserves more attention considering the great ornamental value as for instance foliage plant in the garden. Some examples:
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Impressive variation in those leaves, Freddy - and super photos.
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Freddy they are nice! How did you manage to get that much variation? I grow the 'normal' italicum with large, freckled leaves, and 'marmoratum' but have never seen anything else so thanks for sharing!
A few years ago I had some small tubers left of Arum pictum, which I grow under my tomatoes in a greenhouse, and planted them under a large conifer where they can reach water if they need it, but would be bone dry in summer. Today when I walked past there was a tell tale smell..... Back-lit by the sun, which had gone by the time I got my camera. But still stunning! Does anyone else grow them outdoors?
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I'm collecting for about 12 years snowdrops. But they look so sad alone so about 6 years ago i started to plant Arum italicum and Arum maculatum forms between the snowdrops, Helleborus, Crocus, ... to have nice combinations.
Different (GOOD named forms) of Arum italicum and maculatum are rare in cultivation and difficult to find.
I've searched a lot after them and 6 years later I can show so a good selection of about 20 different good named CV's.
A good feature of this CV's is that they sow much less!!!
1. Arum italicum 'Monksilver' - a almost totaly grey leaved arum italicum named after Joe Sharman's nursery. One of my favorites.
2. Arum italicum 'Walter's best' - a hoge leaved arum. The biggest i've ever seen! (selection of myself).
3. Arum italicum 'Lady Aron' - a new named CV. A lot of sliver in the leaves and also very large leaves.
4. Arum maculatum 'Splish Splash' - a lot of dots on the leaves. Oh i love this form!
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5. Arum italicum' White Winter' - a large leaved form of marmoratum.
6. Arum maculatum 'Streaked Spectre' - a maculatum form with very large black dots.
7. Arum maculatum ex Gert Jan Van Der Kolk - selected in the place where Galanthus nivalis 'Green Tear' whas found. A very good form with just visible veins.
8. Arum italicum 'Sandy Mc NAb' - extremely strongly cream-veined.
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9.Arum italicum 'Bill Baker' - very long narrow leaves whit long basal lobes. From Bill Baker.
10. Arum italicum 'Lord Aron' - huge round silvery leaves. Very special!!
11. Arum italicum 'Green Marble' - a good mix of different forms of green in leaves. A look a like of 'Chameleon' but smaller leaves.
12. Arum italicum 'Tiny' - the smallest of them all. A very nice form for rock gardeners :D
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13. Arum italicum ex. R nutt - a good selection of marmoratum from the hands of R. Nutt.
14. Arum italicum 'Best seedling lilies' - a good form I got from a very good friend.
15. Arum italicum 'Spotted Jack' - the whole leaves is loaded with black dots!
16. Arum italicum 'Chameleon' form 2 - a second form I grow from Chameleon.
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17. Arum italicum 'Nancy Lindsay' - The gold veining is special one this one. A late form from Primrose Warburg.
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Biarum pyrami covered in slug trails. It stinks and the greenhouse is full of flies!
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Can anyone help ID this Arisaema on the Harperley Hall stand at Chelsea this year?
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Can anyone help ID this Arisaema on the Harperley Hall stand at Chelsea this year?
Looks like Arisaema thunbergii ssp urashima
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Ruben, beautiful and instructive set of photo's of Arum italicum !
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uvularia
This is Arisaema kiushianum. It has the face of a little owl.
Regards Edna
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Dug up the Amorphallus 'Konjac' last night. The next county is in trouble in 2015.
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Biarums and Arum pictum in flower this afternoon,
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A wonderful form of Arum pictum with yellow-green spath, originally found in Majorca
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That's a beautiful form, Oron. Does it have a different smell too?
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Fantastic form Oron ! Love it !
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Fabulous plant, Oron!! Never have seen a similar Arum pictum!
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Thanks Hans and Fred,
David i think it has the same scent.
Here is Biarum diitschianum, some plants bloom in the Spring others in Autumn.
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Biarum davisii is making an appearance again this year.
cheers
fermi
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Two questions on this Arisaema which a friend was given:
a) any idea which species this might be? Thinking amurense or engleri but the leaf variegation doesn't seem to fit. It's hardiness here would point to amurense.....
b) friend says the leaf puckering may be due to lifting, then it sat in the sun afterwards and may have gotten burnt or frosted though she is not certain asshe has no idea when it was lifted. No sign of pests or viral streaking though it might be wise to isolate it for now. Thoughts?
johnw - +10c & sunny, just right
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Sauromatum Venosum flowering now, grown at a safe distance from the house - although the smell is not too unpleasant under the right conditions.
Half an hour of time between the first and the second picture.
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An update on the above mystery Arisaema in my Reply#446.
First off no one thinks the leaves show any sign of disease and insects have been ruled out. Rather drought, a cold stretch or both could be to blame.
It turns out the donor grew this from Gardens North seed as "A. sikokianum". Before this information was received a local friend thought this was a sikkokianum hybrid and a friend of Wim thought it might fit A. amurense.
Any thoughts in light of this? And I wonder if others have had that GN seed come true or signs of hybridity in it?
john
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An update on the above mystery Arisaema in my Reply#446.
First off no one thinks the leaves show any sign of disease and insects have been ruled out. Rather drought, a cold stretch or both could be to blame.
It turns out the donor grew this from Gardens North seed as "A. sikkokianum". Before this information was received a local friend thought this was a sikkokianum hybrid and a friend of Wim thought it might fit A. amurense.
Any thoughts in light of this? And I wonder if others have had that GN seed come true or signs of hybridity in it? john
With much help from Wim and his Arisaema guru friend it seems this is straight amurense with marked leaf.
johnw - a wonderful rain overnight and now a sunny 22c.
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Those big Konjac bulbs:
The big stink is doubly imminent.
john
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I was going to suggest asking Pascal Bruggeman, John - but I guess Wim already did that!
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The Royal Botanic Garden , Edinburgh, are pretty confident now that their Titan Arum has got a flower just waiting to emerge .... http://stories.rbge.org.uk/archives/15573 (http://stories.rbge.org.uk/archives/15573) and here
http://www.rbge.org.uk/the-gardens/edinburgh/titan-arum (http://www.rbge.org.uk/the-gardens/edinburgh/titan-arum)
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I had a feeling it might just open on Canada Day as a tribute to our politicians, and in particular the Senate,all of whom are also in a big stink. Sadly it is not to be, things are moving quickly as night temps edge to 15+c.
johnw
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In flower yesterday Arisaema fraternum RBE#1519 grown from AGCBC 97-#909, the seed notes said 12-14" tall, green.....
johnw - +22c
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And the same Arisaema from Replies 446, 448 & 449 still in flower a month later and looking decidedly better. Thought to be A. amurense with marked leaf but grown from Gardens North seed as A. sikokianum. And now with pups which everyone had an eye on. :-[
johnw
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Lots of rain and windy weather. Not much to see in the garden with the exception of Arum italicum and maculatum cultivars.
Arum italicum 'Walters best' (own selection)
Arum italicum 'Green Marble'
Arum 'Streaked Spectre'
Arum 'Splish Splash'
Arum italicum 'Monksilver'
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Arum italicum 'Tiny'
Arum italicum 'Chameleon' form 1
Arum italicum 'Breitseite'
Arum italicum 'Lilies best seedling'
Arum italicum 'White Winter'
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Arum italicum 'Grünspan'
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Arum italicum 'Breitseite'
Arum italicum 'Green marble'
Arum italicum 'Sandy Mc Nab'
Arum italicum 'UTA'
Arum italicum with golden leave, own selection
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Amazing selection you have, Ruben 8)
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All beautiful Ruben! Great to have Arums in the garden at this time of the year.
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Really nice selections Ruben !
I'm still looking through woods here to find some variations but it seems that Arum italicum here is almost green and pretty stable.
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Thx Francois!
Where are you in France?
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I live near Poitiers ( Center-West) and we have both Arum maculatum and Arum italicum growing wild here. They can be like weeds even in my garden. That's why I look for variations : even if they can still be weeds, at least they're nice to watch ! And as you said earlier in this thread they make nice companions to snowdrops, hellebores and cyclamens...
I haven't start looking for maculatum this year though, it is still a bit too early for them as it has not rained so much during Autumn.
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Very interesting!
I'm Always looking for maculatum in spring if i search for galanthus, leucojum vernum, ... .
Have found some very lovely ones.