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Author Topic: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020  (Read 31460 times)

Robert

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #120 on: August 01, 2020, 04:55:24 PM »
Arturo,

This all sounds great. Keep us posted as to your findings!
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him stepto the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
- Henry David Thoreau

cohan

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2020, 08:23:55 PM »
Robert-- the details of your studies might be a bit heavy for average readers, but it does sound like very interesting and important work in the overall implications... Fascinating to see those dry places.. my climate does not sound all that wet on paper, but since much of the precip comes in the growing season, and my average temps are not high, the net effect is much less dry ( and this year is wet, I haven't even watered seed pots all season-- just a few cuttings a few times).
Arturo-- examination of those microclimate issues is very interesting.. I think for the results to be really applicable, we also need to think about numbers of individual plants-- I try to plant out multiple seedlings when possible, since there is no information in general for growing non mainstream plants in my local climate and conditions, and less commonly grown plants often have little data of any kind available. That said, I've often said that I find plants will thrive in one bed and not in another that does not seem much different-- indeed there could be some really minor detail that is different, but also I think it can be individual plants-- eg you might see a stand of native trees here, and one or another may die in any given year, for no really obvious reason, and certainly not situational. So I guess you'd want several or more plants of each species planted in each site to get a better comparison.
As for Xeric and alpine plants, I've found by accident that certain plants will thrive better or remain smaller (this may or may not be 'natural' for the species, but may remind us more of how they *often* look in habitat) when soils are thin-- eg rock garden sections I've built (think moraine, rather than crevice) with rock, clayey loam and gravel where the soil component is never deep or uninterrupted by stone. Combined with slope, as you say, this could be helpful for plants which do not wish to be too waterlogged. I'd expect these shallower soils to have different heating profiles, and likely a different soil micro biota, besides moisture differences.

hamparstum

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #122 on: August 11, 2020, 01:35:30 AM »
Thank you Cohan for your input. I find growing wild plants a fascinating challenge. I live far too away from an ideal garden environment. My surroundings are barren steppe or brush covered terraces where invasive Rosa eglanteria has taken over. I do have a fairly consistent Mediterranean type regular summer drought and I have two types of soils on my small farm. One is a very poor almost pure sandy type and the other is also quite poor but silted up water  logged  ( only in winter- now) bottom land. This second type has some clay to it. I do have some areas where the underlying glacial moraine is close to the surface. There I can quarry for rocks and scree.
Around my house I have created risen beds with a mixture of my soils plus leaf mould and manure. I've added also clay that I've found while excavating a well. Somehow that is the closest I can get for a conventional garden soil. There I grow my roses, dahlias daylilies etc. My interest of trying out with wildflowers is aimed at creating gardens beyond the limitations of a conventional garden for areas that will have to accept little or no modification of the growing conditions. Plants that actually prefer poor soils are one of my goals. Penstemons, I recently heard from Kenton Seth, actually detest organic compost.: ideal! My Lewisias seem to love the recent volcanic sand that blew over our town from an eruption of the Puyehue volcano about 8 years ago.I've got places with 2 cm of it. Except in the water logged area I never had drainage issues, even this winter that is the wettest that I remember.
So this leads to another type of garden that my environment is particularly suited: the rock garden. I live  in a fairly high elevation: above 800 mts asl. This also implies that my summer temps are cool in daytime, much more in the evenings. I should be able to grow alpines without too much worry about summer temperatures. Winters are not too cold because of my proximity to the Pacific ocean. Thus  using the USDA hardiness zones I would qualify to something near zone 8.
My interest in the flora of California stems through comparison. That said at a first glance. But then comes sorting that information into practical procedures. Challenges appear at each corner. Like you so sharply pointed out, there's little or no information about growing species that are close to wild. Of course none from local sources. I'm an innovator in that sense. I do grow as many replicates as they happen to decide to grow. Then I also save seeds of those that have done well, so as to ensure the continuity of the species. By doing so I'm also making gradual garden selections that are adapted to my environment. Perhaps because of my botanical interest, I chose to study by Genus. I try to grow as many species within a genus ( ie: Penstemon, Lewisia, Aquilegia, Primula etc.)that I can lay my hands on and see which perform well here. I've organized my gardens in such a way that each represents some of my main ecotypes. For the waterlogged areas I'm thinking a bog garden with Irises, Primulas, and other wet loving species. The other drier parts a dry meadow garden and a moist meadow garden. Likewise with the rock garden: dry and moist. After 30 years of permanent growing things, my trees have reached sizeable proportions. Now I can consider a shade/forest garden both moist and dry. I hope this explains the breadth of my ( ever expanding) interests and projects... ;D
Arturo
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ArnoldT

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #123 on: August 11, 2020, 03:14:02 AM »
Arturo:

I visited San Carlos de Bariloche many years ago as part of a soccer tour with a famous American soccer team composed of mostly foreigners.

I'd love to see some images of your surroundings.
Arnold Trachtenberg
Leonia, New Jersey

hamparstum

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #124 on: August 11, 2020, 10:18:30 AM »
Arnold, I'm just now in the midst of winter weather. Soon some images will follow. In fact they will show how close they are to some images posted by Robert. Most of my implanted trees are from that floristic region. They grow very well here. When I first bought my place it had just a few saplings growing hidden in my rose covered brambles. The cows had no access. When the bramble was removed they grew and became full sized trees. They are Maytenus boaria which is a natural native tree. That shows that my place was in the recent past an ecotone area between the forested west and open barren steppe on the east. My place lies closer to the eastern end. Perhaps you recall arriving to the open grassland surrounding the airport. I'm about half way between the airport and downtown. The only other native tree in my zone,  called radal,(Lomatia hirsuta), a proteaceae relict from the ancient southern Gondwana continent!.Unfortunately large trees have been logged for its very beautiful grained wood used in cabinet furniture. There used to be a single specimen in my neighbor's land just beyond my fence. Both species are evergreen. I let those trees grow if they appear. However to generate the woodland aspect I need to incorporate both native and introduced species. I've discovered how well adapted is the genus Abies (firs) to my place so I've started an Abies collection. Hopefully some day I may end up with the full species spectrum of the genus growing here. One should bear in mind that my property is not that of an urban scale. There's room to play with trees... :). I've got two beautiful Quercus kelloggii that have originated from California. Now I've got a few more seedlings thanks to Robert's remittance of acorns. 8)
Arturo
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cohan

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #125 on: August 11, 2020, 06:33:52 PM »
Arturo, fun projects for sure-- building habitats/ utilising (and creating) microclimates is the most fun part of gardening for me :) looking forward to pictures-- you will have to start your own thread with your projects, if you have not already.

hamparstum

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #126 on: August 11, 2020, 10:35:30 PM »
Cohan thank you...I've been pondering about a new thread with my various projects. I haven't reached that stage yet, but I suspect I will. Taking pictures is also fun if one has the available (internal) time for them. Different readers from different sources are nicely prompting me to do so. But still I'm way behind the actual work.... :-\
Arturo
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 01:21:18 AM by hamparstum »
Arturo Tarak

Robert

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #127 on: August 12, 2020, 12:26:10 AM »
Robert-- the details of your studies might be a bit heavy for average readers, but it does sound like very interesting and important work in the overall implications...

Cohan,

This is a common complaint I hear even when talking with my neighbors about our garden here in Sacramento, California. I know that I have a lot of enthusiasm about my projects but clearly I need to tone things way back. When I get back to the Sierra Nevada I will try the photographs only method of posting and skip all my long winded stuff that is only of interest to me.  :)
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him stepto the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
- Henry David Thoreau

Maggi Young

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #128 on: August 12, 2020, 12:30:18 PM »
Dear  Robert - it  may be that some  of  your  musings, discussions and  project  details are  found  "heavy" by some  readers -  but  I would  remind  you  that it  is  perfectly possible  for those  people  either  to miss  out  this  thread  completely, or just  enjoy  the  photos. It  would  be  a  great  shame  if  those  for  whom your  entire  posts  are  of  interest  were  to be  deprived  of  the  information contained  therein.
 8)
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

Gerdk

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #129 on: August 12, 2020, 02:24:32 PM »
Dear  Robert - it  may be that some  of  your  musings, discussions and  project  details are  found  "heavy" by some  readers -  but  I would  remind  you  that it  is  perfectly possible  for those  people  either  to miss  out  this  thread  completely, or just  enjoy  the  photos. It  would  be  a  great  shame  if  those  for  whom your  entire  posts  are  of  interest  were  to be  deprived  of  the  information contained  therein.
 8)

Robert, I would like to say that I agree fully with the lines above. Your contributions here are an endless source of information
which I won't  miss.

Gerd
Gerd Knoche, Solingen
Germany

hamparstum

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #130 on: August 12, 2020, 04:03:33 PM »
From what I've understood with Robert's interest in climate at a macro dimension, it has made me think about my arboricultural endeavors. Trees take a long time to grow. Some of my firs ( Abies) only start producing cones after 15 or more years and only after attaining full height. My Abies grandis were planted  in 1990 and I've had cones only in the past three years. This year I've harvested some seeds. I still have to find out whether they are viable.Local understory bamboo ( Chusquea couleou) which I have growing here is a monocarpic species that blooms every 20 or more years. No one has figured out what triggers that. Suddenly, dense understory dissappears and new niches appear. Mice heaven in one season and...a local viral endemic hanta virus epidemic...Bringing in the long term is a must and understanding its impact is mandatory.
Thanks to people that bring in other interests our understanding of systems improves. Even if some of what Robert writes elludes my understanding, I'm very relieved to see that he continues to study and report. Surely some others will understand what I didn't. It would be a pity to level downwards... :(
Arturo
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ian mcdonald

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #131 on: August 12, 2020, 05:08:06 PM »
Robert, I agree with the recent comments about you continuing to inform us of your work. I am not in the least an academic (we were not allowed to take the most basic exam at our school) but the message of what you are achieving is clear. Keep at it.

Hoy

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #132 on: August 12, 2020, 10:51:53 PM »
Robert,

I think you should write what you think is interesting for yourself! Some people will read it and some will not. And many will read some of it!

I am very impressed by what you do and mostly at your own too.

I read your comments but I don't comment always :)
Trond Hoy, gardening on the rainy west coast of Norway.

Robert

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2020, 05:27:05 AM »
Maggi,

Thank you for the valuable admonition. All the comments are well taken, including those of Cohan. I sincerely believe that discussion of plant physiology and plant response to atmospheric and other environmental variables is invaluable toward a better understanding of the plant species that we cultivate in our gardens and is part of the key to unlocking the potential of many little used or difficult to grow species. It will be several more weeks until I am back out in the field again. I will continue my postings along these lines, minus a few things. A discussion of how I am using wind field kinematics is not likely to produce much interest. I will attempt to use good judgment, but please forgive me if my enthusiasm gets the best of me from time-to-time.
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him stepto the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
- Henry David Thoreau

cohan

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Re: Robert’s Crystal Range Project – Year 2, 2020
« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2020, 10:05:10 PM »
Yes indeed, Robert, as others have assured you, it would be a shame to lose out on potential insights and the sharing of information in order to aim for 'average' interests ( I certainly would never suggest you do that, simply observed that many may not read or care about details, but they would never be your real audience). I always want conversation, connection and education from my online activities, and while there are many sites that focus only or mainly on photo sharing-- lovely and all, I always feel disappointed/frustrated when there is no explanation or discussion. Some days one may simply have a batch of photos which add to an ongoing series of words and images, but the overall project/thread/blog is much richer for having all the detail which you are noticing and feel is relevant.
This detail makes your thread a potentially valuable reference for some, and who knows what bits of interest or utility any other reader may find? :)

 


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