G. 'Courteenhall'

[apothecary]

Now this is one we received from Primrose Warburg by the name 'Courteen Hall'.  I'm aware of the contention surrounding this snowdrop and so I assumed, even last year, that I ought to re-label what I have as 'Modern Art'.  It most certainly has the green markings at both apex and base.  Do you all agree? 

I have to admit, this is one of my preferred ones which is why I remember it so well.  It's nice to have a splash of colour on all those dull white snowdrops now and again isn't it? 

[Brian Ellis]

Kristina it's one of my favourites too.  When I asked about the difference between this and Courteen Hall I was told that Courteen Hall was more substantial in growth and also more vigorous.  I would have thought that if you have it from PW and Modern Art is not in your list then it perhaps ought to stay listed as that, but I am only a beginner and others will no doubt give a more thorough answer.

[apothecary]

No doubt they will enlighten us beginners in due course.  From what I've read in the book, 'Courteenhall' is possibly extinct (which would suggest less than vigorous growth I would have thought ) and that the difference between the two is the absence of basal markings on the outer perianths of 'Courteenhall'.  It goes on to say that this has never been resolved since no one has seen a 'Courteenhall' for a long time and they're not sure what it should look like.  I'm still mulling that one over.

[Brian Ellis]

When Joe Sharman came to talk to us he was selling one (only one) 'Courteenhall', unfortunately I was not lucky enough to get it so I can't show you a picture, but perhaps it is still about?  Although the book is excellent for us beginners we should remember that it has not been updated for a few years - the second edition is substantially no different from the first.  Perhaps 'Courteenhall' is like 'The Pearl' (well one of them doing the rounds) in that it needs to be chipped to retain it's vigour.  There is just so much to learn

[Maggi Young]

Since you mention 'The Pearl'.... hope you have seen Hagen's pic  of 'Perle'
  here:http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1260.150
 Re: Gardens visited during 2008
« Reply #153 on: Today at 06:37:20 AM »   It's looking good in Germany.... we must ask Hagen if he finds it tricky.

[Brian Ellis]

Since you mention 'The Pearl'.... hope you have seen Hagen's pic  of 'Perle'

Yes Maggi it does look good doesn't it. Apparently there are three (I think) variations of 'The Pearl' being cirulated and it really depends on which you have.  I saw it recently in Richard Hobbs garden, he was told by Rod Leeds that chipping was the only way to achieve a good clump.  It was magnificent, a huge flower (I like the big ones, and now I come to think of it the small ones, fat ones, green ones.....).

[Martin Baxendale]

Hi Kristina. I agree with Brian. In the case of a contentious name like this it's best to leave it with the name you were given by the donor. Swapping names around with little real evidence to justify it just adds to the confusion. With the original name and the name of the donor as  Primrose Warburg, the plant can be traced back and (who knows?) may eventually help untangle the muddle if something new comes to light (sounds like a detective story!) "Primrose did it in the conservatory with some Modern Art".

I'd label it 'Courteenhall' (alias 'Modern Art'?) ex P. Warburg (and any other info you have) in your records.

I was once part of a conversation between Matt Bishop and Joe Sharman about this very problem and it didn't really get anywhere. Matt used to think Modern Art and Courteenhall were different but now thinks that Modern Art and what's around now as Courteenhall are one and the same. Joe thinks Courteenhall is slightly different (mostly, as Brian say, a stronger grower) and sells it as such. Richard Nutt apparently once said that Courteenhall shouldn 't have the markings at the base of the outer segments, but no-one knows what his evidence for that was.

[snowdropman]

Be aware that Colin Mason has been selling this form for some years, which he also got directly from Primrose Warburg, as g. 'South Hayes Courteenhall' - I have some in the garden, but think that it has already turned over - will have a look later.

[KentGardener]

the thread about events has a link to an International website - the snowdrop picture on the first page is labelled as Courteenhall - not sure if it helps anyone, but thought I would mention it.

http://fets5.freetranslation.com/?sequence=core&language=German/English&username=freetranslation&password=xO0y3uwr&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eoirlicher%2Dblumengarten%2Ede%2F#

John

[snowdropman]

John - this is the website of Gunther Waldorf, who organises the German Galanthus Gala - perhaps if Hagen Engelmann see this thread, he can ask Gunter where he got his 'Courteenhall' (I do not know, but I would guess that he got it from Monksilver Nursery).

[Hagen Engelmann]

Hi all,
sorry but I`m not able to tell you at once, where the english souce of the COURTEENHALL of germany is. I will ask. But it`s a real fine and virgorous snowdrop. I like it too.

[mark smyth]

Here's a plant I took a photo of in 2006 labelled as Courteen Hall. I dont have a note to say who's garden it was in

[carolesmith]

I have just got home from the Gala and am catching up.  I grow Courteenhall which I was given by Joe Sharman who had it from Primrose Warburg.  As I understand it Courteenhall flowers later than Modern Art and this has certainly proved to be the case in my garden this year.