A snowdrop named after Ruby Baker

[Paddy Tobin]

I have noticed on several occasions lately a Galanthus reginae olgae 'Ruby Baker. I also recall that in February 2008 Dr. Ronald McKenzie exhibited a Galanthus 'Ruby Baker', described as an elwesii X gracilis cross, at the London RHS show. I believe photos  may have been posted here of the exhibit.

I have wondered if there conflict in the naming of these plants? Is it acceptable that both should have the "Ruby Baker" name or should one  now be renamed?

[Alan_b]

Information from John Grimshaw here http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/ruby-baker-1923-2014.html on a hybrid named 'Ruby Baker' and its origin; presumably this is the one exhibited by Dr. Ronald McKenzie.

This thread reports the origin of the 'other' 'Ruby Baker' and why Joe Sharman 'recycled' the name: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8571.0

Although the Dutch KAVB would like to be the snowdrop-naming authority, their authortiy has not gained much credence in the UK or Ireland so naming here is something of a free-for-all.  You can judge for yourself whether Joe Sharman complied with the International Rules by reading them here http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf

[Paddy Tobin]

Many thanks, Alan. That explains it perfectly. The originally named plant, from Primrose Hill, was first named, first described, first published etc so has preference. 

Pity about the nuisance of the other one.

[Alan_b]

I agree.  But hopefully when Galanthus 'Paddy Tobin' comes to be named you will be consulted in advance and you will put politeness to one side and give your honest opinion if you don't find it to your taste.  I have not seen either 'Ruby Baker' but Ruby Baker deserves to be commemorated by a really good snowdrop. 

[Paddy Tobin]

I have seen it in Primrose Hill, a low-growing snowdrop with a globular flower. I liked the shape of it. It would never make a substantial drift in the garden but would be an interesting little one.

Now, I do have one snowdrop which badly needs to have a proper name peeping through at the moment. As it had no name I had been reluctant to give it to others but gave some bulbs last year - so I need a name: "Longraigue"

As for a snowdrop named after me, I'll have to depend on Mary to do that! Only true love would move somebody to that.

[Alan_b]

Sorry, yes, Paddy; I'll get on to confirming that name

[mark smyth]

And there's 'Ruby's Gold'

[Paddy Tobin]

Yes, Mark, but it the fact that there are two G. 'Ruby Baker' which was puzzling me.

[Maggi Young]

Yes, Mark, but it the fact that there are two G. 'Ruby Baker' which was puzzling me.

I quite see your point, Paddy-  and since there is a tendency to only write G. 'Ruby Baker', without the accompanying details of  G. reginae olgae  'Ruby Baker'  etc - then the possibility for confusion is rife.
Folks will see photos of a white flower and a green-tipped flower and will wonder what on earth is going on.
As well they might, in my opinion! 

[Paddy Tobin]

There's nowt so queer as folk, Maggi.

It strikes me as very odd that a man so intimately involved in the world of snowdrops would simply disregard normal practice and push ahead giving a second snowdrop the second name.

David and Ruby Baker were regular visitors to Primrose Hill and I have no doubt but that it had been discussed with them and that they had no objection to the Halls naming their snowdrops for Mrs. Baker so someone going ahead on the basis of claiming that Mrs. Baker would have preferred another snowdrop strikes me as presumptuous arrogance. I don't know the man, except by name, but am surprised that anybody would act in this manner.

[Alan_b]

Joe Sharman is a perfectly nice guy but a law unto himself.  If you plough your own furrow is that arrogance?  I believe the explanation given in the earlier thread that he was motivated by a desire to commemorate 'Ruby Baker' with what he saw as a superior snowdrop to the one that had already been named after her.  But in so doing he was going against the spirit of the 'law' (meaning the ICNP Rules) and quite possibly the letter of the law also.

Ruby Baker was active in the snowdrop world even earlier this year and came to the Shaftesbury event in February (where Joe Sharman had one of the sales tables).  She must surely have been aware of this naming controversy and we don't know what her opinion was.  But if she asked Joe Sharman to stop selling his 'Ruby Baker' under that name then I'm sure he will do so.  For example, he briefly marketed a snowdrop as 'Charlotte', named for one of his nieces, but changed that to 'Charlotte Jean' when he became aware of a Dutch (?) snowdrop that already bore the name 'Charlotte'.

   

[Hagen Engelmann]

RUBY'S GEBURTSTAGSBLUMEN is on ebay now. It is a reputable source!!!

[johnstephen29]

I was on ebay earlier Hagen, it's a loverly little snowdrop.

[Alan_b]

I have noticed on several occasions lately a Galanthus reginae olgae 'Ruby Baker. I also recall that in February 2008 Dr. Ronald McKenzie exhibited a Galanthus 'Ruby Baker', described as an elwesii X gracilis cross, at the London RHS show. I believe photos  may have been posted here of the exhibit.

I have wondered if there conflict in the naming of these plants? Is it acceptable that both should have the "Ruby Baker" name or should one  now be renamed?

I have it on good authority (Matt Bishop) that the reginae olgae has been "renamed"  'Ruby's Green Dream'.

[Alan_b]

I thought we had covered everything that could be said on this topic but yesterday I got an unexpected package from Joe Sharman with a letter in it.  He apparently only recently became aware of this topic and in the letter he explains the story behind the two snowdrops named Galanthus 'Ruby Baker' in some depth.  He felt that the original 'Ruby Baker' (from Primrose Hill in Ireland) although 'not a bad plant' was not an appropriate one by which Ruby Baker should be remembered.  When he came up with what he believed was the best green-tipped G. reginae olgae (var. reginae olgae) yet known, he wanted to name it for Ruby Baker because she was especially interested in green-tipped snowdrops.  Joe recounts that he knew that the name 'Ruby Baker' would ultimately be disallowed for his snowdrop and discussed alternatives with Ruby on several occasions.  'Ruby's Green Dream' was one of many alternative names she suggested.

Because of its prior use, 'Ruby Baker' will likely be recorded as a synonym for 'Ruby's Green Dream' but the snowdrop correctly named 'Ruby Baker' will remain the original one from Primrose Hill.