G. plicatus 'Warham'

[Martin Baxendale]

Kristina, don't worry about the "Warham" clump looking disappointing - anything will help with ID. Even just seeing the overall look of the clump, and some more flowers, but mostly how it looks overall as a clump should give us a better idea.

[apothecary]

Found one! It's not very good.

[Martin Baxendale]

Kristina, the "Warham" clump doesn't look like 'Gerard Parker' and I've just figured out what's really wrong with the flowers - both on the clump and the pics of cut flowers you've shown. I should have seen it earlier, but my attention's been a bit distracted with getting a book off to my printers to a tight deadline and subsequent proof-reading, corrections etc.

It's the shape of the outer flower segments. As you'll see from mine and Mark's photos, and the one in the book, 'Gerard Parker' has outer segments which are very pronouncedly unguiculate (they narrow to a very pronounced long, thin claw-like shape at the base). This also makes the outer segments appear to 'stand out' from the inner segments, so they seem separated at the base, rather than clasping the inner segments at the base. If you look at mine and Mark's pics you'll see what I mean. This is a very recognisable feature of 'Gerard Parker'.

In your flowers, though, the bases of the outer segments are not unguiculate, hardly narrowing into a claw-shape at all, so that they hug tightly to the bases of the inner segments. This gives the flower a quite different overall appearance and is what worried me, although I stupidly hadn't pinpointed it.

I don't think the outer segment bases of your flowers will become much more unguiculate as they age, but they might a little, so keep an eye on them. However, if they stay non-unguiculate (as I suspect they will) then it's not Gerard Parker and will have to be just plicatus.

That's the danger with making snap IDs. You don't always spot the discrepancies immediately, and as a result a plant can end up going around under the wrong name. Always best to be cautious.

Feel free to post another pic if the outer segments do become more unguiculate as they age.

Have a nice day - supposed to be sunny again (vitamin D supplements aren't the worst idea in the world in a terminally cloudy sunless winter 

[mark smyth]

I like the clarity of the photos but I feel the flash probably gets rid of petal texture. I can turn off my flash off for any photos I take. Mine was cheap around £200 saving £150 by buying from 7 Day Shop. What camera are you using?

[apothecary]

You're right.

Mine are unguiculate, but I'm not yet familiar enough with snowdrops in general to make distinctions between averagely and strongly unguiculate segments.  Thanks for pointing it out.  I will watch them, but I think I'll put the plant in as straight plicatus now anyway and I can change it again if anything becomes particularly apparent.

Thanks for the help.

I like the clarity of the photos but I feel the flash probably gets rid of petal texture. I can turn off my flash off for any photos I take. Mine was cheap around £200 saving £150 by buying from 7 Day Shop. What camera are you using?

I haven't got the camera on me at present (locked in a cupboard and I don't have the key).  It's an excessively expensive, gimmicky Nikon something-or-other point-and-click type thingy.  I have an SLR Nikon D70 at home which is brilliant, but I daren't bring it to work.   I intend to get myself a slightly smaller and more portable pro-sumer at some point for stuff like this, but I don't currently have the funds.  At least now I know not to opt for this one, it's slowly driving me crazy although I'll admit the pics are nice and sharp.

[Martin Baxendale]

Well yes, all snowdrop flowers have outer segments that narrow somewhat at the base, but they're only described as unguiculate if it's quite pronounced, and in Gerard Parker it's very pronounced.

[apothecary]

I don't think the outer segment bases of your flowers will become much more unguiculate as they age, but they might a little, so keep an eye on them. However, if they stay non-unguiculate (as I suspect they will) then it's not Gerard Parker and will have to be just plicatus.

I went out for another look today and took a pic for the fun of it.  I then compared the pic to earlier examples of 'Gerard Parker' on this thread, suddenly there seems to be a little more of a resemblance....

[Martin Baxendale]

I went out for another look today and took a pic for the fun of it.  I then compared the pic to earlier examples of 'Gerard Parker' on this thread, suddenly there seems to be a little more of a resemblance....

You're right, Kristina! It's amazing how much longer the claws have become compared to the first pics where there was very little claw at all. I must say I haven't watched how Gerard Parker developes from first opening to going over, so hadn't realised how much the unguiculation can change. Come to think of it, the cultivar Fieldgate Superb does the same sort of thing, the long claw developing quite a lot as the flower ages.

Snowdrop flowers can change quite a bit as they age, which is why I suggested keeping an eye on it. But I didn't expect quite so much change so quickly.

Anyway,  that does look much more like Gerard Parker now.If you want to be 100% sure, carry on observing it and see if the outers also widen a bit as they age and develop into more of a balloon-shape.

Could I ask you, if you have the time, to take another photo in a few days time, so we can all have another look. If it does continue to develop the way it's going, I think it's going to look dead right for Gerard Parker.

Sorry this has been a long round-about ID, but it's often like that with snowdrops, and it's advisable to be cautious with naming until you're absolutely sure or you can create problems for others later (I mean you as in anyone, not you personally).

[Martin Baxendale]

Kristina, I had another look at my Gerard Parker this evening (I found another small clump with another single flower just about surviving under a shrub).

When the bulbs aren't doing so well, as mine aren't, the outer petals seem to be less wide than they would with big strong healthy bulbs. So it seems outer petal width can be variable.

Having looked at mine again, and at your latest photo again, I think you can safely say that you do have Gerard Parker - especially given that it came from South Hayes labelled Warham; it was probably a clump which never had its original Warham label changed to Gerard Parker when the naming was altered as set out in the snowdrop book.

It'd still be good to see another photo later, to see how the flower develops as it ages, to be be 100% sure.

[apothecary]

Oh, that sounds so much more promising.  I'll certainly keep an eye on it and photograph it later.  Assuming a rabbit doesn't nibble off all the last flowers before I have a chance.

[apothecary]

Right.  I went for another potter over to the so-called 'Warham' the other day.  Most of the flowers have reached that point just prior to going over so I took some pics of their balloony outer-perianths as they are now.  Any chance they are 'Gerard Parker'?  Or are they too droopy now?

Sorry the clump pic is so blurred, there was quite a breeze blowing.  I shan't complain about this camera again , but it doesn't have what you would call the speediest of exposures.

[Martin Baxendale]

Hi Kristina. They look okay. I think you're safe labelling them Gal. plicatus 'Gerard Parker'.

The problem you had with the second pic isn't down to flower movement; it's the camera's auto-focus focussing on the background rather than the flowers because it's looking for something with a lot of contrast to focus on as the subject, but the white of the snowdrop flowers doesn't register enough contrast. It's a common problem with pale flowers that's been much discussed on this forum.

I find with my camera it helps to use the special setting for taking plant close-ups. Failing that, blocking out the background helps - either use some card as a background, or hold your hand behind the flowers, which helps the camera to focus on the right area, then remove your hand once the camera has locked onto the flowers.