Clematis x cartmanii question

[rob krejzl]

I wonder if anyone can help me.

I've got some F₂ seed of C. x cartmanii nearly ripe (actually a cross between the clones 'Sweetheart' and 'Perfection'), but only want those with a form close to C. marmoraria. Does anyone know what percentage of seedlings like that I'm likely to get?

[Lesley Cox]

I can't help with that cross Rob but other marmoraria seedlings, especially the very nice and dwarf `Luna Lass.' give seedlings almost identical to C. marmoraria, and almost identical to C. paniculata and every size and shape and leaf shape, in between. I have one absolutely flat and creeping underground and a couple of tall climbers. Some have tiny curly and heavily indented foliage while others have thin, long leaves or large almost oval leaves. You pays your money I think then weeds out the ones you don't want which I'd suggest would be the vast majority

[rob krejzl]

Sigh,

Just as I suspected. What a lot of frogs I'll have, and how few princes.

[Carlo]

Ahhh, but you only need ONE prince...

[rob krejzl]

.... and a consort to 'consort' with.

[Diane Whitehead]

And some other gardeners will love your frogs.

I have discovered that it is safe to compost anything that looks
boring to me, but not anything I find weird or ugly  because
they will be favoured by someone.

[Paul T]

So is x cartmanii a hybrid between marmoraria and paniculata then?  I had no idea what the parentage of 'Sweetheart' was, otehr than marmoraria in there somewhere.  It is a great little Clematis, and last here for years, unlike 'Perfection' which I know of no-one in Canberra who has actually had it survive more than a year or two.  I'm assuming from the above comments that the parents are upright and flat, and therefore the seedlings vary anywhere in between.  I have a vague recollection of paniculata, but can't really place it and late enough now I'm not going to look it up!!    I need my beauty sleep!! (in a big way!!  ))

[Ian Y]

Paul yes, x cartmanii is the name applied to a hybrid between Clematis marmoraria and paniculata.
The original plant was raised by Henry and Margaret Taylor form seed sent to them by Joe and Ann Cartman and so the gave it the cultivar name 'Joe' or Clematis x cartmanii 'Joe' to give it its full title.
I think it is a superb plant and it used to be seen a lot on the Show benches but then Judges grew tired of it and now it is not so often seen, I think it is even banned from AGS Shows!
I suspect it is because it is a bit of a climber but when well grown up an appropriate support, or tumbling down from a deep long tom pot it looks wonderful.
C. paniculata is a failry vigorous climber with good large flowers.
In the 1980's I did a lot of hybridising using 'Joe' as the pollen parent and crossing it back onto a female C. marmoraria - selecting the best compact offspring then crossing them back to marmoraria again. After a few generations I got some very good compact plants that flowered very well so I named the best of them 'Craigton Comet', 'Craigton Meteor' and 'Craigton Asteroid'. I distributed them but I do not know what has become of them. I still have a plant of each as well as a number of the other crosses that I stuck into the walls of the raised beds.

[David Nicholson]

Picture here of my Clematis x cartmanii 'Joe' flowering in my greenhouse last April.

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=376.msg11436#msg11436

[Lesley Cox]

Here's something very odd happened. When I clicked on David's post immediately above this one, and in my Inbox, his and Ian's both came up in a topic but not in THIS topic. They were inserted in Flowering now, April 2007. And also oddly, nothing in the topic was at all familiar to me. Much was posted while I was in Australia but I thought I'd looked at everything which had been posted during those 11 days. No doubt one of those small unexpainable greeblies which inhabit my computer and leap out occasionally to confuse me.

[Lesley Cox]

Ah, not so confusing after all. When I clicked, it must have been on the link David inserted, not on the current topic link. Silly me.