Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 02, 2012, 08:16:49 PM
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I had Crocus sieberi x "George" opening today in the warmth of the veranda ! :D (while it was -5°C outside at the same time...)
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I had Crocus sieberi x "George" opening today in the warmth of the veranda ! :D (while it was -5°C outside at the same time...)
Lucky you ! Great Crocus en great picture Luc.
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I agree on all counts, Kris!
Superb photos of a lovely crocus.
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Luc,
wow! This cultivar is more pretty then I thought :o
Excellent photos!
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Crocus imperati is always bloom in mid January outodoor, here in Southern Italy
Angelo,
C. imperati is one of my favourites. Does it set seed regularly with you?
In my meadow it flowers always as one of the first and suffers the bad weather.
The buds are deep frozen at currently -13°C , brrrr, damn cold.
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Luc, what a wonderful flower! My 'George' are still small buds even now...
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Thanks folks !!
I'm quite happy with George myself... and he seems to be bulking up nicely ! :D
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Could you please id this crocus for me.I don't think it is what it says on the label?
(http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae121/davep1970/PICT0011-2.jpg)
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Could you please id this crocus for me.I don't think it is what it says on the label?
Looks more like a tommasinianus.
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Could you please id this crocus for me.I don't think it is what it says on the label?
Looks more like a tommasinianus.
Thank you Martin that's what i have told the person who sold it me.
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Here one of my Crocus goldilocks has thrown out double flowers.
(http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae121/davep1970/PICT0009-1.jpg)
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Dave, it's so gorgeous :o A flower just beneath the double one is also double, isn't it? It looks the flowers from this particular shoot are all double. I thought such multi petaled flowers tend to come out from well fatted large corms, but this case is... ???
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Tatsuo you are right,there are 5 corms in the pot and one corm is throwing out double flowers,two so far.
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Davey, perhaps you've got a mutant ;)
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A few Crocus in flower here, including two pots of C. veluchensis that come courtesy of generous forumists, and a C. cvijicii ex Janis.
Alex
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Wow! That's a very dark veluchensis in the first photo! 8) Are you planning crosses between the veluchensis and the czvijicii? That's what I'm planning to do this year.
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Alex, the dark C. veluchensis makes sharp contrast with the white one :D
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A terrible cold air mass has gone here and Crocus baytopiorum opened its first flower today :) :) :)
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Wow! That's a very dark veluchensis in the first photo! 8)
I agree with Martin . Very good colour ! :o
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Alex, the dark C. veluchensis makes sharp contrast with the white one :D
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A terrible cold air mass has gone here and Crocus baytopiorum opened its first flower today :) :) :)
Very delicate YT . Like it anyway .
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I hope that this Crocus mathewii could survive , temperature in the garden goes down to minus 12 degrees this weekend.
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If mine will survive minus 33 C, yours - covered by snow - definitely will.
I'm in Greece. Will go home on Saturday if strike will allow. Had 3 targets. Loc. # 1 - two days before was covered by snow. Loc. # 2 - 100% success; loc. # 3 - for third day waiting when hurricane in sea will finish, but today turning back. can't wait more. So 33% success. More when I will be back in home.
Janis
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Just a couple from what is being a very "quiet" season for me.
Crocus chrysanthus 'Ladykiller' and,
C. biflorus 'Fairy'
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If mine will survive minus 33 C, yours - covered by snow - definitely will.
I'm in Greece. Will go home on Saturday if strike will allow. Had 3 targets. Loc. # 1 - two days before was covered by snow. Loc. # 2 - 100% success; loc. # 3 - for third day waiting when hurricane in sea will finish, but today turning back. can't wait more. So 33% success. More when I will be back in home.
Janis
Thanks Janis . I show my mathewii your answer ,then he has no choice ;D
Very mysterious and exciting ....Greece ..... Hummmm
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Just a couple from what is being a very "quiet" season for me.
Crocus chrysanthus 'Ladykiller' and,
C. biflorus 'Fairy'
That's much more then here David ....Your 'Ladykiller' looks 'Fair(y)' to me.
I like them both , here we have to wait what's happening after the strong frost.
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Some in flower today in the sunshine
Crocus biflorus pulchricolor-chrysanthus natural hybrid
Crocus chrysanthus
crocus cvijicii (martin I crossed this with sieberi, last year and have some good seedlings
Crocus reticulatus
Crocus sieberi
Crocus veluchensis
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-7°C at noon here today - but in the sunshine ... and in the warmth of the veranda I had some colour showing :
1 and 2 Crocus cyprius open
3) Beautiful Crocus sieberi x "George" - showing an open and a closed flower
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Just a couple from what is being a very "quiet" season for me.
Crocus chrysanthus 'Ladykiller' and,
C. biflorus 'Fairy'
That's much more then here David ....Your 'Ladykiller' looks 'Fair(y)' to me.
I like them both , here we have to wait what's happening after the strong frost.
Ladykiller has purple back edged white, very similar to commercial alexandrii but is far better increaser. Fairy has petals only darker dotted on outside.
Janis
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A new Crocus, http://www.sekj.org/AnnBot.html (http://www.sekj.org/AnnBot.html)!!! C. jablanicensis.
Also Crocus reticulata normal and my single albino, but still with yellow "feathers" on the petals, and C. abantensis (so tiny!).
Aaron
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Incredible color for reticulatus. Never saw any yellow hint between some 20 aquisitions of pure reticulata. May be hybrid with angustifolius? (C. x leonidii?) Or may be with some other yellow? In any case very nice.
Janis
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Aaron,
thank you for the informative link.
I concur Janis for the very pretty reticulatus and extraordinary albino.
Hope you will have some sunshine and you can show us your beauties again with flowers open.
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First post, so please be gentle with me!
C. olivieri istanbulensis.
About three weeks earlier than last year.
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Kid gloves, Ron, I promise!
Great to have you posting. Very impressed that crocus matches the cat..... 8) ;)
Have you got the snow in Yorkshire, or are you escaping it, like us up here?
Odd season here.... some things looked to be racing ahead, then stopped. We can't second guess the timings now.
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Snow here also, Maggi. Temperatures around 0'c all day and down to -2 at night. Not as bad as some. Looking at the forecasts it seems that this spell is stretching out further each day.
Very happy to finally be here, love this site. Everyone seems so positive and in the main focussed on what its all about ..... the plants!!
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Well, we are all utterly obsessed with the plants, Ron... but we dash of on paths hither and yon, discussing everything from the price of coal to the latest recipe, just like a face to face chat is wont to do.
But as a self-help group for hopeless plant addicts, this place has few equals ;D ;D
Helpful to share details of other folks' growing regimes and tips : always a new idea to try out , or a collective shoulder to cry on when the worst comes to the worst and a mouse eats your whole pot of seed raised rarities. Hope that last one doesn't ever affect you!
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With 18 cats on patrol, I truly hope not!!!
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With 18 cats on patrol, I truly hope not!!!
What! :o :o :o
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Good for you Ron, Cats have been getting a bad time here.We do not have any they would last long. Our house and garden is on a very busy corner. We do have a dog. Our GranddaughterMegan has a beautiful white kitten (very arrogant)
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With 18 cats on patrol, I truly hope not!!!
What! :o :o :o
Seconded!
I learned only recently that whereas the owners of dogs are legally responsible for the activities of their animals, the owners of cats are not.
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Welcome Ron, good to see you here inspite of you being a cataholic. Nice start with the Crocus olivieri. You'll find that people actually reply to posts here too ;D
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David, I notice you don't mention the cats. ;D Strange.
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David, I notice you don't mention the cats. ;D Strange.
I s that David doing a cat impression and sitting on the fence ;D ;D ;D Lovely pot of C. olivieri istanbulensis Ron.
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Hands up who read "cataholic" as "catholic" and wondered for a few seconds what that had to do with being on the forum ;D ;D
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Nice to see you again too David. Your absolutely correct .... breathe and discussion has moved on apace. I'm loving it!
All living things are welcome on our small piece of the promised land (a.k.a. Yorkshire). We try not to persecute anything......maybe the odd slug!!
Before we get back to the Crocus may I offer all a chance to vent their prejudices and say that all 18 are a family and that they are all GINGER !!!!!!
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they are all GINGER !!!!!!
Speaking as a Ginger myself, Ron, I have no problem with that! :D
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C. chrysanthus 'Sunspot'.
Just going over but a real class act in my opinion. Easy and rewarding. Well done Pottertons!
Following Janis and bringing in to a sunny windowsill in order to open flowers and try to pollinate. Never had seed from this plant. Has anyone?
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I don't think anyone has reported seed fronm 'SunSpot' in the forum... though R ob Potterton may know better. ;)
In this thread, though- http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2771.msg64454#msg64454 - Janis said " Crocus chrysanthus Sunspot – unsurpassed, possibly only black anthered can to compare. I’m trying to cross both to receive black stigma and black anthers in same flower" So perhaps he has had seed
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A found in Corsica
Crocus minimus selection
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Before we get back to the Crocus may I offer all a chance to vent their prejudices and say that all 18 are a family and that they are all GINGER !!!!!!
I can smell them from here - the nice crocus that is. Welcome to the forum Ron.
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;) Thanks for that Gerry. Scent attracts - :-* :-* :-*
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A lovely Crocus minimus, and a beautiful photograph too.
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I hope one day it multiplies Anne
this is the third year without multiplying :-[
Roland
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they are all GINGER !!!!!!
Speaking as a Ginger myself, Ron, I have no problem with that! :D
Have you heard Tim Minchin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiEUkYCuvuM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiEUkYCuvuM)
cheers
fermi
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Krokus 'Goldilocks' .
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Crocus sieberi subsp. Atticus 'Firefly'
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Nice song Fermi
never heard from Tim Minchin before
Roland
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Frankie,
I find it quite interesting und unusual that cultivar 'Goldilocks' opened its flowers or kept its flowers open in spite of snow and low temperatures.
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First post, so please be gentle with me!
C. olivieri istanbulensis.
About three weeks earlier than last year.
From where are your istanbulensis? If from PCh or his supplier - it is type subsp. olivieri :'( Didn't see any true from European/USA sources :'( :'( :'(
By myself got true only last autumn from Turkish friend. Did you check covering sheets?
Janis
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C. chrysanthus 'Sunspot'.
Just going over but a real class act in my opinion. Easy and rewarding. Well done Pottertons!
Following Janis and bringing in to a sunny windowsill in order to open flowers and try to pollinate. Never had seed from this plant. Has anyone?
Yes, I have it's seedlings (still not flowered). By Bob Potterton around 50% can be with black stigma.
Janis
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A found in Corsica
Crocus minimus selection
Very good!
Janis :o
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Hi Janis,
I got my istanbulensis from a chap here in Yorkshire who is mad keen on crocus. ( he is not a member of this or any other society and has no intention of becoming one either ). Some people just get on with it. It certainly keys out to be istanbulensis per your recent publication.
Thanks for the update on the seed production of 'Sunspot'. You've renewed my hope so I'll persevere.
I agree, lovely minimus.
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Further to the correct reply by Janis, Crocus 'Sunspot' will set seed but at best only 50% are true. You must grow seedlings for 4 to 6 years to flower size and then throw away the bulbs that are not true. But if you are growing the plants on a window sill you should also remember to pollinate the flowers.
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Thanks Rob. I moved it onto the widowsill because it was the only area of the whole garden getting any light at the time of flowering. I hoped to get the flowers open and get the pollen ripe. Which I think I have. It will go back with the other crocus for the rest of the year. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath. Obviously any seedlings no matter how 'true' can't be called Sunspot.
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Thanks Rob. I moved it onto the widowsill because it was the only area of the whole garden getting any light at the time of flowering. I hoped to get the flowers open and get the pollen ripe. Which I think I have. It will go back with the other crocus for the rest of the year. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath. Obviously any seedlings no matter how 'true' can't be called Sunspot.
Ron we have had this discussion on another plant and from what i gained from that was as long as the seedling has all the characteristics as the plant that is registered then it can be named the same.I might be wrong and i hope some one with a bit better understanding of this matter can clear it up.
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Ron
You may have 18 cats and all ginger, I have one ginger and she is nearing 18, and given the chance would still catch mice.
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Thanks Davey. These sort of questions probably go around and around over the years, but us 'newbies' appreciate that someone answers rather than sits there thinking ' ohhh we answered that two years ago'. So Cheers!! ;) to you. My understanding was always that it had to be a vegetative reproduction to carry forth the name. If we say Sunspot has a rate of 50% with visibly same characteristics, what happens when one of those 'same offspring' has only a 5% rate? Minefield!
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A Queen to be proud of then Art. She's out in all weathers protecting your bulbs?
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Thanks Davey. These sort of questions probably go around and around over the years, but us 'newbies' appreciate that someone answers rather than sits there thinking ' ohhh we answered that two years ago'. So Cheers!! ;) to you. My understanding was always that it had to be a vegetative reproduction to carry forth the name. If we say Sunspot has a rate of 50% with visibly same characteristics, what happens when one of those 'same offspring' has only a 5% rate? Minefield!
This naming business is a minefield!
This may help...... http://www.ishs.org/sci/icracpco.htm better link : http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf (Thanks, Gerry!)
A previous post on the matter ( about other plants) said this :
Naming cultivars is subject to rules just as naming species is. The International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants is the guideline for that: http://www.ishs.org/sci/icracpco.htm
The ICNCP is basically an extension of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN)
Unfortunately it is not online, like the ICBN is, and needs to be purchased. Generally speaking new cultivars either are registered at a specific registration body or published in a printed form (like a nursery catalogue) for them to become official. Naming cultivars has more freedom than species because the names don't have to be in Latin of latinized. Unfortunately in some genera growers mis-use cultivars to become immortal resulting in a multitude of similar looking plants with different names which then are discussed on fora because no one can make heads of tail of them..... ;)
The most important paragraph in the ICNCP is paragraph 2.3 defining what a cultivar is:
A cultivar is an assemblage of plants that (a) has been selected for a
particular character or combination of characters, (b) is distinct, uniform, and stable
in these characters, and (c) when propagated by appropriate means, retains those
characters
A a result of this definition the best way to ensure the "purity" of a cultivar is to propagate it vegetatively but it doesn't have to as long as the offspring retains the characters that defined the cultivar. The more clearly defined the characters are that make up the cultivar, the easier it is to recognise in the course of time and doesn't get "muddled" with plants that "sort of look like" the original cultivar.
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Thanks Maggi, it probably will!
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Frankie,
I find it quite interesting und unusual that cultivar 'Goldilocks' opened its flowers or kept its flowers open in spite of snow and low temperatures.
Yes, it's a bit strange, but it's no trick. But the flowers did have the whole day the sun.
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I have seen similar things over the years. Can it be that the flower is mature but hasnt opened for so long ( due to unfavourable conditions ) that just before it becomes 'over ripe' it opens 'come what may'? I find Crocus flowers that do this dont last anywhere near as long as those that open fresh. Only a theory .... nothing scientific!
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Thanks Rob. I moved it onto the widowsill because it was the only area of the whole garden getting any light at the time of flowering. I hoped to get the flowers open and get the pollen ripe. Which I think I have. It will go back with the other crocus for the rest of the year. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath. Obviously any seedlings no matter how 'true' can't be called Sunspot.
Ron we have had this discussion on another plant and from what i gained from that was as long as the seedling has all the characteristics as the plant that is registered then it can be named the same.I might be wrong and i hope some one with a bit better understanding of this matter can clear it up.
Davey - you are right.
The International Code can be found here:
ISHS - ICNCP - Scripta Horticulturae 10
www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf
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The complete Tim Minchin song ' Predujice' is well worth digging out on Google. A poignant wake up for so many forums.
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Yes, it's a bit strange, but it's no trick. But the flowers did have the whole day the sun.
That explains it. Warmth triggers the opening of the flowers.
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I have seen similar things over the years. Can it be that the flower is mature but hasnt opened for so long ( due to unfavourable conditions ) that just before it becomes 'over ripe' it opens 'come what may'? I find Crocus flowers that do this dont last anywhere near as long as those that open fresh. Only a theory .... nothing scientific!
Ron,
you might be right with your theory provided there is enough warmth to force opening.
Currently all early crocus flower shots in my meadow are deep frozen (-10°C) and will flop without opening if the cold continues. >:(
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Nice song Fermi
never heard from Tim Minchin before
Roland
The complete Tim Minchin song ' Predujice' is well worth digging out on Google. A poignant wake up for so many forums.
Tim is Australian and has been a favourite of mine for a long time - I really appreciate his understanding of a lot of things we take for granted. Being from Western Australia he probably doesn't have much of an interest in crocus so it's a bit "off topic"! ;D
cheers
fermi
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Being from Western Australia he probably doesn't have much of an interest in crocus
Does have an interest in science though - check out his appearance on The Infinite Monkey Cage in December (http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/timc).
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Janis, I called my friend today and he said the istanbulensis came from a contact at one of the Botanic Gardens, but he didnt want to say who. I think I have about a dozen now. Perhaps I could send you one later in the year and you could check it out for me?
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C. reticulatus
Not quite there yet but not sure if we'll see much sun over the next few days.
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Ron,
nice photo of C. reticulatus. But I have some doubts it true.
Looks more C. imperati by image... ;)
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Is imperati scented?
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hmmmm ...... beginning to think you're correct Armin. Strange how the camera highlights things the eye misses.
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Ron,
I have only cv. 'De Jager' growing in my meadow.
Never checked if it is scented. Don't know.
Best is to check corm tunics
imperati: parallel fibrous corm tunics
reticulatus: Corm tunic coarsely netted fibres
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Thanks anyway Armin for following up with me. This is why I find this SRGC forum so fantastic! I was given this two years ago, planted it with the name it was given to me under, and never ever questioned it. It even grows amongst other pots of reticulatus, but I havent looked close enough to see differences ( the other pots aren't even showing hardly at all yet). I intend to invetigate this thoroughly but am having serious doubts at the moment. Thanks again Armin :) :) :)
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Ron,
it is me a pleasure to help. This is exactly one of the reasons why we all love this forum! ;D
Check the corm tunics, modified my previous reply for the time being. ;)
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Thanks again Armin. I will recheck when repotting. Have made a note to repost here with my findings at that time.
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Consulting Brian Mathew suggests to me that this is more likely to be C. reticulatus, though I'm not all that familiar with Spring crocus & identification from photos is difficult. Both this & C. imperatii subsp. suaveolens are scented (hence the name of the latter). I daresay Janis will pronounce sooner or later.
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Changed my mind again! ??? After some sun today, depite freezing temperatures its opened more and I am pretty sure it must be C.reticulatus. Seems an identical plant is shown on plate 260 of Janis's Crocus book.
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C.herbertii
poor lonely, skinny little thing. :( :( Hope it can get some stolons going and have some company in the future. ;D
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Changed my mind again! ??? After some sun today, depite freezing temperatures its opened more and I am pretty sure it must be C.reticulatus. Seems an identical plant is shown on plate 260 of Janis's Crocus book.
I have Janis book too. Both species (+subsp.) variants resemble by outer appearance very much.
My own C. reticulatus have more starry shaped flowers compared yours, are smaller in size compared to C. imperati 'De Jager', and flowering period is always much later. You mentioned your other reticulatus pots show no sign of growth yet...
I would check corm tunics when dormant. :D
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I certainly will Armin. Thanks for following up on this for me.
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Not much happening for me at present just a couple
C pelistericus from a generous friend
C rujanensis - or is atticus ssp rujanensis?
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Changed my mind again! ??? After some sun today, depite freezing temperatures its opened more and I am pretty sure it must be C.reticulatus. Seems an identical plant is shown on plate 260 of Janis's Crocus book.
Not easy to judge by picture only. Must to see corm tunics, I'm even thinking about biflorus. See yellow throat! (of course that is how I see it on pictures).
C. reticulatus (and its relative C. hittiticus) is the only species in which the outer flower segments are narrower than the inner (whereas in all the other species it is just the opposite). It can help to identify this one. But corm tunics is very esential.
Janis
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Thank you Janis. When all is dormant we can get to the bottom of this one. I really appreciate your assistance as I prefer, if possible , to have things correct. Did you see my post re: istanbulensis? If I send you one later in the year would you be willing to identify it for me? I didn't realise that it may be scarce in cultivation. I know that Kew say they grow it.
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Thank you Janis. When all is dormant we can get to the bottom of this one. I really appreciate your assistance as I prefer, if possible , to have things correct. Did you see my post re: istanbulensis? If I send you one later in the year would you be willing to identify it for me? I didn't realise that it may be scarce in cultivation. I know that Kew say they grow it.
I don't know how widely true istanbulensis is in cultivation. It was one of very few crocus taxa which I hadn't in my collection, so I searched for it quite long. I got plants under this name from several growers, one of my friends bought it for me from PCh (PCh don't sell plants to me - question is - why?), then I got it from 2 other companies and all were subsp. olivieri + several samples were virus infected (inclusive PCh plant). Only last year I got from two sources in Turkey true plants (by corm covering sheets) and will see blooming this spring.
In nature it is extremely rare - known only from one small forested spot surrounded by rising Istanbul. Even there it is endangered, partly just for protection as spots (where only around 100 plants were found) are overgrown by shrubs and other vegetation not grazed more due protection. But I hear that now problem was solved by artificial cleaning of spots.
Separating of both subsp. isn't very difficult. Check at replanting corm tunics. True istanbulensis has reticulation in upper part of tunics whilst subsp. olivieri tunic fibers are parallel throughout. See attached picture. You can read about it in THE PLANTSMAN - 2005 , #3. Article of Osman Erol & Orhan Kucuker. There are differences in leaf morphology, too, but those are not so easy to check.
Janis
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I am very grateful to you Janis for taking the time and effort to provide this information. It is most interesting for me. I'll check the coat at repotting time as you suggest. Thank you.
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Lovely C.pelistericus Ian. Such an intense colour. Do you need to keep it moist year round?
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Lovely C.pelistericus Ian. Such an intense colour. Do you need to keep it moist year round?
Ron yes I keep it moist and in the coolest spot I have though I have not found it necessary as some growers suggest to leave it in a shallow tray of water over the summer. Its habitat in Northern Greece is high mountain bog which probably never dries out so that in itself gives a clue.
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Lovely C.pelistericus Ian. Such an intense colour. Do you need to keep it moist year round?
Ron yes I keep it moist and in the coolest spot I have though I have not found it necessary as some growers suggest to leave it in a shallow tray of water over the summer. Its habitat in Northern Greece is high mountain bog which probably never dries out so that in itself gives a clue.
I found that keeping in water-trays can be dangerous even. Instead of this I try to remember about watering once a week during all summer and up to going for winter "sleep".
Janis
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Thanks for the advice Ian and Janis. High mountain bog, but probably raised slightly on hummocks etc? Sounds similar environment to many of the sundews etc. Looking forward to growing it. :)
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Sorry, forgot to ask, but do you recommend a 'peaty' free draining compost? Does it have roots all year round? If it is bought as a 'dormant' bulb does it travel well, or is it better to find someone who can provide one in growth?
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Ron, our Crocus pelistericus are outside in an open frmae all year round. They are potted in a mix which is basically sand and leaf mould.
It is not difficult to keep them moist in an Aberdeen summer!
In these conditions it is very hard to find even a short window of time when the corms are completely dormant. They lose one set of roots and very shortly begin growing a new set.
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Thank you Maggi. I suspected as much. I find the same with the Japanese and a lot of the Chinese Fritillaries to be honest. They can be aquired' dormant', but its a bit of a lottery if they establish. If they do then they are easy to keep going.
Really appreciate the information Maggi, as C. pelistericus is on my wish list for this year.
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Exactly, Ron... there are a number of Frits. with the same habit of hardly ever being without roots in active growth. The odd narcissus too... they do it to make our lives difficult, I'm sure ;)
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Thanks for the advice Ian and Janis. High mountain bog, but probably raised slightly on hummocks etc? Sounds similar environment to many of the sundews etc. Looking forward to growing it. :)
Ron,
no that is not the environment you envisage. In N. Greece it grows in a large bowl in the mountains with lots of run off from surrounding slopes and when in flower is quite often in a couple of cms or more of water. On the higher drier hummocks is where Crocus veluchensis is found.
I do not know where you live but with me I have it outside in a shady raised plunge kept moist (mainly by constant rain) but not flooded all year round.
Sorry I see you live in E.Yorkshire which sounds very dry for this species and a lot of watering will be needed in the coolest possible place.
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Thanks for putting me right Tony.
You're correct in that we are a dry part of the UK. However, I am prepared to put the work in to grow such a lovely species. I hope I can grow it well, to make all you're inputs worthwhile. ;)
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Ron - if you have access to back numbers of the AGS Bulletin there is an article, with photos, by Alan Edwards on C. pelistericus in the wild - AGS Bull. 66, 3 (Sept 1998). Alan has a further short note in AGS Bull. 68,4 (Dec 2000) on the occasion when his plants received a PC. He is very skilful & flowered it successfully in Surrey.
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Thanks so much Gerry for this information. I will be able to access the AGS Bulletin you mention I'm sure. I'll start my search immediately.
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In Latvia conditions in summer is very variable - there can be long dry and hot periods. So I'm placing in summer pots with scardicus, pelistericus and scharojanii in shade of greenhouse. I put them on geo-plastic which not allow to grow weeds but allow to drain off excess water. If weather is dry, I'm looking for watering once a week, but if temperature is high - once in 5 days. It works perfectly.
Janis
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Thank you Janis. The geo-plastic is a good idea. I'll definitely 'steal' your idea. ;) ;)
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Not much happening for me at present just a couple
C pelistericus from a generous friend
C rujanensis - or is atticus ssp rujanensis?
Ian,
very nice croci images. 8)
The pictures of your C. rujanensis are lovely. I like the deep yellow throat.
But I have my difficulties to differenciate your samples from C. atticus (C. sieberi ssp. atticus) i.e. cv. 'Firefly'.
Refering to Janis crocus book C. rujanensis bract and bracteole are unequal in length, the perianth is purple in the upper part and style exceeds well tips of anthers... :-\
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Not much happening for me at present just a couple
C pelistericus from a generous friend
C rujanensis - or is atticus ssp rujanensis?
Ian,
very nice croci images. 8)
The pictures of your C. rujanensis are lovely. I like the deep yellow throat.
But I have my difficulties to differenciate your samples from C. atticus (C. sieberi ssp. atticus) i.e. cv. 'Firefly'.
Refering to Janis crocus book C. rujanensis bract and bracteole are unequal in length, the perianth is purple in the upper part and style exceeds well tips of anthers... :-\
Definitely nothing like Firefly as this grows well in my garden and anyway the flowers of Firefly are twice as big and are much deeper in colour. This one is very dainty and is not as vigorous :(. I acquired this plant some years ago from Rannveig Wallis in 2007 so I am loathe to question its provenance even though as you say it does not perfectly fit the description in Janis's book and there is nothing I can find in the Mathew bible. Interesting picture of it on the Pacific Bulb society on this link http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus/Crocus_rujanensis.jpg (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus/Crocus_rujanensis.jpg).
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Not much happening for me at present just a couple
C pelistericus from a generous friend
C rujanensis - or is atticus ssp rujanensis?
Ian,
very nice croci images. 8)
The pictures of your C. rujanensis are lovely. I like the deep yellow throat.
But I have my difficulties to differenciate your samples from C. atticus (C. sieberi ssp. atticus) i.e. cv. 'Firefly'.
Refering to Janis crocus book C. rujanensis bract and bracteole are unequal in length, the perianth is purple in the upper part and style exceeds well tips of anthers... :-\
Crocus rujanensis belongs to those few species "which I don't like" ;D because for identification problems. I don't like species about which is written - separable by complex of features - where measurements overlap with similar sp. etc. In my book I took original description of C. rujanensis - Randjelovič, N., D. A. Hill, V. Stamenkocič, and V. Randjelovič. 1990. A new species of Crocus from Yugoslavia. Botanical Magazine (Kew Magazine) 7: 182--186.
Janis
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Thanks so much Gerry for this information. I will be able to access the AGS Bulletin you mention I'm sure. I'll start my search immediately.
I posted pictures of C. pelistericus in the wild following my trip in 2010. On the closeup of the picture showing five flowers you can see it is growing in standing water. Not to be recommended in cultivation.
www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5473.0
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Thank you Tony. Now I see what you mean my standing water! The area appears very healthy, so I would assume some flow to the water, maybe very slow? Out of interest, does this water stay at this depth for long periods? Not that I would choose to cultivate under these conditions or anything like them.
Great set of pictures from your Greece trip on this link. I would advise any 'newbies' (like myself), to follow this link and peruse the thread Tony posted .. some fantastic pictures of wonderful plants, not only Crocus.
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Not much happening for me at present just a couple
C pelistericus from a generous friend
C rujanensis - or is atticus ssp rujanensis?
Ian,
very nice croci images. 8)
The pictures of your C. rujanensis are lovely. I like the deep yellow throat.
But I have my difficulties to differenciate your samples from C. atticus (C. sieberi ssp. atticus) i.e. cv. 'Firefly'.
Refering to Janis crocus book C. rujanensis bract and bracteole are unequal in length, the perianth is purple in the upper part and style exceeds well tips of anthers... :-\
Crocus rujanensis belongs to those few species "which I don't like" ;D because for identification problems. I don't like species about which is written - separable by complex of features - where measurements overlap with similar sp. etc. In my book I took original description of C. rujanensis - Randjelovič, N., D. A. Hill, V. Stamenkocič, and V. Randjelovič. 1990. A new species of Crocus from Yugoslavia. Botanical Magazine (Kew Magazine) 7: 182--186.
Janis
Thanks Janis
Obviously a case of "so many species so little difference" ;D ::) ;)
Here it is in a previous year where the style is longer . Attractive little thing
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Ian
it is a beautiful thing but I cannot see any difference to a pale Crocus sieberi-except perhaps the price!
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Ian
it is a beautiful thing but I cannot see any difference to a pale Crocus sieberi-except perhaps the price!
;D ;)
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Very classy, whether C.rujanensis is true or not. I dont think that this should be lumped in without some form of differentiation ;).
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Very classy, whether C.rujanensis is true or not. I dont think that this should be lumped in without some form of differentiation ;).
I'm not lumping it, too. I have few slightly different stocks, all are collected on locus classicus and they are slightly different from atticus, so I keep them as rujanensis. I don't know how easy would be for me to identify plant without provenance (origin). Not tried yet.
Janis
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Very classy, whether C.rujanensis is true or not. I dont think that this should be lumped in without some form of differentiation ;).
I'm not lumping it, too. I have few slightly different stocks, all are collected on locus classicus and they are slightly different from atticus, so I keep them as rujanensis. I don't know how easy would be for me to identify plant without provenance (origin). Not tried yet.
Janis
I do not want to get into a discussion which always goes nowhere due to irreconcilable views but it seems to me that if you need to know where something comes from before you can identify it then it is not distinct.
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For me that is a perfectly acceptable point of view Tony. Sounds like the work needed to counter the original splitting has not been done yet though. Until then ....?
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Very classy, whether C.rujanensis is true or not. I dont think that this should be lumped in without some form of differentiation ;).
I'm not lumping it, too. I have few slightly different stocks, all are collected on locus classicus and they are slightly different from atticus, so I keep them as rujanensis. I don't know how easy would be for me to identify plant without provenance (origin). Not tried yet.
Janis
I do not want to get into a discussion which always goes nowhere due to irreconcilable views but it seems to me that if you need to know where something comes from before you can identify it then it is not distinct.
The question is - distinct from what point of view? This depends on the concept of species you hold. We have been here before (several times), & as you remark Tony, there are "irreconcilable views". I would go further & say that, at present, there are no good reasons for choosing between these views; all the current species concepts are fraught with problems.
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Very classy, whether C.rujanensis is true or not. I dont think that this should be lumped in without some form of differentiation ;).
I'm not lumping it, too. I have few slightly different stocks, all are collected on locus classicus and they are slightly different from atticus, so I keep them as rujanensis. I don't know how easy would be for me to identify plant without provenance (origin). Not tried yet.
Janis
I do not want to get into a discussion which always goes nowhere due to irreconcilable views but it seems to me that if you need to know where something comes from before you can identify it then it is not distinct.
The question is - distinct from what point of view? This depends on the concept of species you hold. We have been here before (several times), & as you remark Tony, there are "irreconcilable views". I would go further & say that, at present, there are no good reasons for choosing between these views; all the current species concepts are fraught with problems.
Armin see the trouble you have started ::)
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Very classy, whether C.rujanensis is true or not. I dont think that this should be lumped in without some form of differentiation ;).
I'm not lumping it, too. I have few slightly different stocks, all are collected on locus classicus and they are slightly different from atticus, so I keep them as rujanensis. I don't know how easy would be for me to identify plant without provenance (origin). Not tried yet.
Janis
I do not want to get into a discussion which always goes nowhere due to irreconcilable views but it seems to me that if you need to know where something comes from before you can identify it then it is not distinct.
It isn't so, but if you know origin, identification is much easier and saves your time. It allows to exclude impossible for this locality things, and narrows research. Crocuses are so variable inside species (of course, not allways), that any information is very valuable. I don't like this, but not allways you have laboratory at hand.
Janis
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I see that two of the botanists who described Crocus rujanensis are the same ones who have described Crocus jablanicensis(which looks a beautiful plant). Both new species are growing in the same area and must have have been mistaken for Crocus sieberi in the past. Perhaps this means we can look forward to further new species in the future.
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Not saying anything , but do you think we could have a tongue in cheek emoticon available Maggi. Think I'd find it useful to diffuse some of my posts!
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Not saying anything , but do you think we could have a tongue in cheek emoticon available Maggi. Think I'd find it useful to diffuse some of my posts!
Well there is this :P
But I'd stick with the ;) or ::)
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I see that two of the botanists who described Crocus rujanensis are the same ones who have described Crocus jablanicensis(which looks a beautiful plant). Both new species are growing in the same area and must have have been mistaken for Crocus sieberi in the past. Perhaps this means we can look forward to further new species in the future.
Jablanicensis (Mount Jablanica in very west) grows quite far from rujanensis (Rujan Plane). If rujanensis is similar to atticus, then jablanicensis could be compared with white cvijicii but its stigma well overtops anthers. I didn't see it in vivo but for me seems that there will be no problems to identify this one.
Janis
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::) ::) Typical thicko me! Didnt realise thats what the tongue meant! UR right maggi, i should stick to the simple stuff :-[ :-[ :-[
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ITMA. Does UR mean 'You are'? Am I cool?
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Very 8)
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Armin see the trouble you have started ::)
You've put out the lure! ;D
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Returning to discussion about jablanicensis and rujanensis - They grow far one from other - jablanicensis in very SE of Macedonia, it is high mountain plant; rujanensis on border between Serbia and Macedonia - at very North of last and from much lower altitudes. So both are well separated geographically, too.
Regarding to complex atticus-dalmaticus-rujanensis - I scanned table comparing all of them (atticus in it is under name of sublimis) and I'm adding pictures of all three (not from this spring, of course). Judge by yourself how different they are for gardener. I only want to warn that cheep crocus offered as dalmaticus by Dutch growers really is atticus. Pictured plants are coming from localities where they are growing (original stock is wild collected). When I started crocus growing and wild plants growing out of USSR were not available for me - I was very confused by so named "dalmaticus" offered by Dutch and grown everywhere - it looked absolutely identical with atticus. C. rujanensis is collected by Jim Archibald on Rujan Planina - its locus classicus, so undoubtedly true to name.
Janis
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Janis,
thank you for the comparison table and the marvelous images. I've learned there are rather small differences with regards to morphology in series reticulati especial sieberi group.
Beside traditional (historical) morphological investigations and comparison, DNA analysis have given a new view and understanding of the relationships of the genus crocus.
In your book 'Crocuses' you consider C. atticus as species and sublimis and nivalis as subspecies of it while before all three have been considered as subspecies of C. sieberi.
From the phylogenetic analysis results (May 2008, see excerpt image) I can't comprehend fully your conclusions with regards to nivalis & sublimis.
Maybe I'm lacking latest scientific results since then.
Can you kindly give us some more explanation for your conclusions?
I and probably many other interested forumist, get more confused by the naming. (How shall I call my babies?)
What is the latest status among taxonomist / scientist discussions regarding species/subspecies naming?
Will there be a harmonisation / an alignment / an offical revision? Scheduled when?
Presumable my questions are not simple to answer but I hope you can give us your appraisals.
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Thank you Janis, for troubling to lay this comparison out for us, in such a clear and easy to see way. Important for me is your comment
Judge by yourself how different they are for gardener
. If any plant is to become a part of my garden and my studies then this is the criteria I use. Perhaps only until something better comes along ( as you allude to Armin ) but its good for me at this time.
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I gave a talk this morning to a local gardening group and during the presentation I mentioned virus in Crocuses and later on viruses in Irises. I thought nothing about it until at the end of the talk I was asked if the same virus attacked both Crocus and Iris, and I didn't know :-[ :-[ :-[. Its something I've gone along with and never thought to ask. Can one genus infect the other?
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I gave a talk this morning to a local gardening group and during the presentation I mentioned virus in Crocuses and later on viruses in Irises. I thought nothing about it until at the end of the talk I was asked if the same virus attacked both Crocus and Iris, and I didn't know :-[ :-[ :-[. Its something I've gone along with and never thought to ask. Can one genus infect the other?
Ron, there are a lot of different viruses which can attack plants. And quite a few of them attack multiple genuses!
Take a look here: http://www.agls.uidaho.edu/ebi/vdie/sppindex.htm. It shows some known virusses with the respective susceptible host species.
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Cheers Wim.
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I gave a talk this morning to a local gardening group and during the presentation I mentioned virus in Crocuses and later on viruses in Irises. I thought nothing about it until at the end of the talk I was asked if the same virus attacked both Crocus and Iris, and I didn't know :-[ :-[ :-[. Its something I've gone along with and never thought to ask. Can one genus infect the other?
Some virus are selective, some attach very wide spectrum of plants. Such are for example Tobacco Rattle virus. It attacks all kinds of bulbs and other perrennials and weeds, too.Sometimes just weeds are source of infection of bulbs.
Janis
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Thank you Janis.
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Just seen the nice photos of C.rujanensis, posted by Jon Evans on the AGS site, presented to the JRGC by the Director, RGB Kew. Nice timing.
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Just seen the nice photos of C.rujanensis, posted by Jon Evans on the AGS site, presented to the JRGC by the Director, RGB Kew. Nice timing.
Can you give a link, Ron?
Went to try to find it... followed a link from a search which lead nowhere.... :-\
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Try
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows/RHS+Early+Spring+Show+Feb+th+/878/ (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows/RHS+Early+Spring+Show+Feb+th+/878/)
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Thanks Ron.... I was looking in the Joint Rock Section .
Puzzled that elsewhere in the Forum it was reported that the Jopint Rock had no plants put up yesterday... but that must only have referred to galanthus.
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Crocus vernus
A gift from Gert Jan van der Kolk who selected this form.
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Wow :o 8) 8) 8) very nice!
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Gerry
I think that is a very nice form of ssp heufellianus or as some would say Crocus heufellianus
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Tony - I'm following Brian Mathew who regards C.vernus subsp. vernus as a single, very variable entity.
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Tony - I'm following Brian Mathew who regards C.vernus subsp. vernus as a single, very variable entity.
So he does, how sensible
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Gerry, the links you put me onto regarding C.pelistericus, from AGS bulletins proved most informative. Thank you. ;)
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This form looks like having blood from heuffelianus (dark markings on outer flower segments) and napolitanus (stripes on inner segments)
What height does your special vernus measure, Gerry?
On the german wikipedia pages there is one form matching by discription C. „sarplaninae“ found in Macedonia.
But there's no image.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocus_vernus (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocus_vernus)
C. vernus family complex is another mystery which needs more investigation and DNA studies.
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Tony - I'm following Brian Mathew who regards C.vernus subsp. vernus as a single, very variable entity.
So he does, how sensible
I thought you'd approve Tony!
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What height does your special vernus measure, Gerry?
Armin - I'll have to measure it tomorrow - it's dark now. I suspect it is not now at it full height since it was sent through the post whilst in growth (i.e., bud) The pot in the photo is 8cm diam. so this would make the crocus about 7-8cm.
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thanks, definitive not the size of a dutch crocus X cultorum.
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Tony - I'm following Brian Mathew who regards C.vernus subsp. vernus as a single, very variable entity.
So he does, how sensible
I thought you'd approve Tony!
I've just looked at BM's 2002 revision (in The Plantsman) where he recognises, albeit rather reluctantly, C. vernus subsp. heuffelianus which I suppose my plant would fall under.
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What height does your special vernus measure, Gerry?
Armin - I've just measured it, 8cm tall.
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A few hours of sunshine did wonders for the crocus here today :)
Crocus tommasinianus - from Primrose Warburgs garden, I call this one Claret & Cream (there is a claret coloured one without the cream outers)
Crocus biflorus ssp - thanks Art!
Crocus sieberi ssp sieberi seedlings. The variation increases but are some hybrids with ssp sublimis or atticus?
Crocus tommasinianus 'Bobbo' - a Bowles raising, perhaps the nicest tommy?
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Thanks Gerry :)
Tony,
very nice croci images. The Claret & Cream is lovely contrasted for a tommy.
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A few hours of sunshine did wonders for the crocus here today :)
Crocus tommasinianus - from Primrose Warburgs garden, I call this one Claret & Cream (there is a claret coloured one without the cream outers)
I have a lot like this, seedlings from similar tommies given to my dad by Oliver Wyatt. Quite possibly the same stock that Primrose Warburg had.
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Claret and Cream - very nice. if and when you guys have any to spare think of me.
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CLARET AND CREAM is phantastic. C. sieberi on Crete is extremely variable. Mid March I will go there just to picture variability in wild. Yours, Tony, looks as pure sieberi. I still didn't get hybrids with atticus.
Janis
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C.abantensis
This one opened nicely for me today. ;D
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A few hours of sunshine did wonders for the crocus here today :)
Crocus tommasinianus - from Primrose Warburgs garden, I call this one Claret & Cream (there is a claret coloured one without the cream outers)
Crocus biflorus ssp - thanks Art!
Crocus sieberi ssp sieberi seedlings. The variation increases but are some hybrids with ssp sublimis or atticus?
Crocus tommasinianus 'Bobbo' - a Bowles raising, perhaps the nicest tommy?
Tony very unusual and nice tommy this one . Well I suppose all tommies are nice and good garden plants
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Well I suppose all tommies are nice and good garden plants
Ian - I certainly have to agree with that. It's the best and most rampant of all Crocus here. I should be growing more from seed to see what might just happen. We can't get the whites or cultivars other than Roseus, Ruby Giant and Whitewell Purple and worse the last two seem hopelessly muddled in the trade here.
johnw
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Ruby Giant is one of the best but unfortunately sterile (true cultivar).
Janis
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Well I suppose all tommies are nice and good garden plants
Ian - I certainly have to agree with that. It's the best and most rampant of all Crocus here. I should be growing more from seed to see what might just happen. We can't get the whites or cultivars other than Roseus, Ruby Giant and Whitewell Purple and worse the last two seem hopelessly muddled in the trade here.
johnw
John I think you are not alone over the pond some of these hybrids are mixed up here
Some years ago I got Crocus tomm "Eric Smith". The supplier has unfortunately got an ordinary tommy mixed with them and after a few years I decided to try to lift and sort them out. But that year only a couple of fragments came up. I dug around and found only a couple of bits of corm so replanted in the hope that they would regenerate. It has taken a couple of years but one of the plants appears to be a seedling which has quite nice stippling on the outside of the petals. It also has the extra petals of Eric Smith. Seems quite a nice thing
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Ian, so good and unique patterns :) Thank you for sharing.
Here are...
Crocus biflorus subsp. nubigena
Crocus baytopiorum
Crocus atticus subsp. sublimis 'Michael Hoog's Memory'
Crocus chrysanthus 'Macedonian Ivory'
I pollinated 'Sunspot' pollens to 'Macedonian Ivory' ;D
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Very nice flowers YT. Are these all from Janis? What is the stone that you use for your top dressing? I like the look of it.
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Ian, so good and unique patterns :) Thank you for sharing.
Here are...
Crocus biflorus subsp. nubigena
Crocus baytopiorum
Crocus atticus subsp. sublimis 'Michael Hoog's Memory'
Crocus chrysanthus 'Macedonian Ivory'
I pollinated 'Sunspot' pollens to 'Macedonian Ivory' ;D
YT love the biflorus and such a good photo. Your growing regime must be close to nature as my baytopiorum is much more leggy and flops over. Growing them in this way shows great skill
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ron, yes these are from Janis ;) Top dressing is pumice and kanuma.
ian, thank you very much. I think too enough for me :-[ My place is 9b as USDA and very dry, sunny winter. I can grow them outside without any protection except rain when flowering ;)
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You do it very well YT. All of the plants you have posted on this Forum ( not just these Crocus) appear very healthy and really well grown.
Thank you for the information on the top dressing. I think I'll get some to try.
Very nice to see your set up.
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Thank you, ron :) Probably you've already known that there are 2 types of kanuma, hard and soft. My top dressing is pre-blended, with several different kind of pumice and hard type kanuma. If you use 'soft type', it will be broken easily by frost.
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I just found a supplier here in UK for the pumice and Kanuma, thanks YT. Unfortunately they dont say if its hard or soft type. I'll be asking now before ordering. Excellent information. Thank you, :) :) :)
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ian, thank you very much. I think too enough for me :-[ My place is 9b as USDA and very dry, sunny winter. I can grow them outside without any protection except rain when flowering ;)
Tatsuo really nice set up and I envy your climate. The crocus certainly love it
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I think too enough for me :-[ My place is 9b as USDA and very dry, sunny winter. I can grow them outside without any protection except rain when flowering ;)
Wonderful to see, Tatsuo. I still see some empty spaces, so you can fit in more ;)
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Crocus aleppicus from Jordan last week
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ron, you're welcome ;)
ian, but we have very humid and deadly heat summer so many alpines cannnot stand at my place :(
Wim, I have to leave the space for seedlings what are waiting for transplanting to larger pots ;)
Fred, it's very interesting for me to see the crocus in habitat :D Thank you for sharing :)
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ian, but we have very humid and deadly heat summer so many alpines cannnot stand at my place
Well Tatsuo as we say "you can't have everything" but the crocus seem to do really well
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Great job Tatsuo : wonderful Crocus !
Crocus aleppicus from Jordan last week
You never cease to amaze us Fred !!! :o :o
I had Crocus minimum in flower today and C. sieberi "Amfiklia" :D
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C. minimum is stunning! :o
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Is that the commercial form, C minimus 'Spring Beauty' Luc. It really is a beauty, so floriferous and tough. A very worthy garden plant I think. It has been said that every one is virus infected, but I have seen it in a number of collections and it has appeared to be fine. What have you found?
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It has been grown from seed many moons ago Ron - not by me, but by a generous friend ! ;)
And of course you're right, it is C. minimus - sorry for the typo ! :-[
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It is lovely Luc, is'nt it? Never mind the typo! Whenever I attend garden club meetings this is always one of the favourites. Congratulations, ;)
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Crocus etruscus
Crocus biflorus ssp.weldenii 'Fairy'
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Lovely plants Roma. The subtleness of the grading in colour on the 'Fairy' is really appealing. Very, very nice :) :) :) :) ;)
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after a period with temperatures under -20° C
protection over the beds yesterday
2 hours later:
Crocus adanensis
Crocus hartmannianus
Crocus flavus ssp.sarichinarensis 2x , thanks Janis
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I found a nice nearly white Crocus corsicus five years ago
and killed the bulb almost by collecting it
but here are the results after five years
Roland
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An attractive addition :)
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after a period with temperatures under -20° C
protection over the beds yesterday
2 hours later:
Crocus adanensis
Crocus hartmannianus
Crocus flavus ssp.sarichinarensis 2x , thanks Janis
Nice view of protection. Season was horrible for W Europe. Erich wrote me that in his garden C. goulimyi leaves after this frost period looks as hay. Here it is nothing special. Of course minus 37 is quite hard here, too. But I'm happy that glasswool helped. Of course I still don't know what is underground. Keep fingers crosseed...
Nice to see my sarichinarensis in bloom.
Janis
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I found a nice nearly white Crocus corsicus five years ago
and killed the bulb almost by collecting it
but here are the results after five years
Roland
Fantastic! :D
Janis
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I found a nice nearly white Crocus corsicus five years ago
and killed the bulb almost by collecting it
but here are the results after five years
Roland
I'm glad you have been able to keep this going Roland. I think it was last year that both Tony G & I commented that, in our experience, the white form of C. corsicus was not at all vigorous.
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It was in-between rocks
and cost me almost one hour to collect :o
but it was the first good one I found after a week searching
of-course the bulb was damaged after collecting
now waiting for the day it will multiply
only one shoot for this year
so normally only one bulb for next year :(
Roland
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Roland - What a beauty your find White Mountain is!
johnw
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Very lovely and very special plants all. ;D ;D ;D ( especially that 'White Mountain' 8) 8))
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A wonderful Spring day here. Fabulously warm ... but don't want it to stay like this! Too warm for the bulbs if this weather were to hang around. Great crocus weather though.
First a mystery crocus. Gift from a friend (Art thou reading this?) ::) Labelled as biflorus ssp perhaps it is Crocus chrysanthus but it does not look like any other chrysanthus that I grow.
A nice seedling of crocus sieberi ssp sublimis in the Tricolor vein. The flower is very 'dumpy' broader petalled and chunkier than the trade form. I like it ... but then I would!
Large Crocus sieberi possibly crossed with Crocus veluchensis alongside smaller Crocus kosaninii
After the school run I took a look at the Cemetery crocus and the roadside hybrids that I have reported on before. Neither site was as good as in previous years. The roadside ones took a double battering recently. First the council came to cut back the trees under which the crocus grow. Heavy vehicles and big feet aplenty :'( Then after an early start when January was too mild, we had a week fo snow, ice and freeze which did more damage. I guess they'll recover. In both places I think flowering may have been affected by the very hot and dry March/April weather last year which put many bulbs into early dormancy.
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Crocus minimus RBGG collected in Corsica
Can somebody tell me why some have a white
and other have a yellow stigma and style
both are found in mixed populations near the coast
I haven't seen Crocus corsicus nearby
Roland
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C. minimus is very variable by color of flower parts - stigma can be white, yellow, orange. Variable are flower color, too.
Janis
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Thanks Janis
I found it funny that the stigma and style where white in some collections
Do you have the white Crocus minimus ??
Roland
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Lovely C.minimus Roland. A nice series of pictures showing variation within the species. Some real beauties. :) :)
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Thanks Janis
I found it funny that the stigma and style where white in some collections
Do you have the white Crocus minimus ??
Roland
I have one pot of minimus alba received by very long way - it travelled from Chris Brickell (UK) to Otto Fauser (Australia), then from him to Markus Harvey (Tasmania, Australia, too) and then from Markus to me in 2009. It bloomed last spring as glistening white, but I'm not certain that it is healthy. On some pictures flowers looks as virusinfected (not on this one), but I will finally check this spring. At present it is placed isolated from other crocuses.
Janis
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Thanks Janis
I found it funny that the stigma and style where white in some collections
Do you have the white Crocus minimus ??
Roland
Variation of stigma colour in minimus.
Janis
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Thank you Janis. Your pictures make it easy to see the degree of variation, that you talk about. ;) :) :)
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Some new flowers today,
Crocus biflorus ssp. ? HKEP 0112
'' candidus unusual form, in trade under vitellinus 'White'
'' veluchensis x cvijicii 'Rainbow Gold' :-*, this year in my list
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Would you send me your list please Dirk?
The old 'disappearing Maggi act'!
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Sorry Ron... wrote the post then decided to pm Dirk instead! Woman's prerogative to change mind etc :-[
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Dirk,
That biflorus is very lovely :D
Hope it will be also a new one! Thanks to post that photo...
ibrahim
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Firstly, Dirk, please may I have a copy of that list!!!!
I expect you will have received many requests after that pic.
Today, I had one of those all too rare moments of great pleasure when I picked up a pot of my own C. gilanicus seed I sowed in September 2010, but put out into some obscure corner of the garden when nothing came up the following Spring - I was picking it up to chuck it in a bin bag and clear some space....
Cheers,
Alex
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Dirk, I hope I'm on your email list for sending out your bulbs list. I've had your list once before and regretted forgetting to order when I later saw photos of your 'Rainbow Gold' 8) . Would like another chance to get it :)
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Some crocus from Bellevue, Washington, blooming in Feb. in pots.
Crocus chrysanthus 'Charmer' front
Crocus chrysanthus 'Charmer' back view
Crocus fleischeri ex Gulek Pass top
Crocus fleischeri ex Gulek pass back
Crocus gargaricus - from seed ex Göteborg Botanik. Flower size is exactly between the smaller C herbertii and the larger (that I have) C. gargaricus from another wild seed source.
Crocus kosaninii - back
Crocus kosaninii - front
Crocus mayli 'Sveti Roc' back
Crocus mayli 'Sveti Roc' front with pollen stain
Jim
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Some more from Washington state
Crocus olivieri ssp. olivieri top
C. o. ssp. o. profile
C. sieberi 'Cretan Snow'
C. tommasinianus 'Eric Smith' top
C. t. 'Eric Smith' side
C. t. 'Rubinetta'
We have a tommie seedling selected in Seattle by John [Jerry] Flintoff several years ago which looks just like Tony's 'Claret and Cream.' It's extremely prolific by division.
Jim
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That C. tommasinianus 'Eric Smith' is amazing
Roland
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Jim.
A nice selection of crocus you have there. I call my tommie 'Claret & Cream' to distinguish it from the pure Claret coloured forms. The name has no true validity.
Take another look at your C kosaninii. It does not look like the ones I grow. Maybe it's just a trick of the light, as can happen with photos, but it looks a bit like C etruscus or C dalmaticus to me.
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That C. tommasinianus 'Eric Smith' is amazing
Roland
Well, that's one way to describe it.
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Back from holiday and nice sunshine early in the morning but later when I decided to take some pictures the sun disappeared of course.
The commonest and earliest Crocus in the garden is C tomasinianus but a lot of others are due to open their flowers when we get a little more sunshine in the afternoon like this C. baytopiorum.
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They may only be 'tommies' but in a clump I think they can outshine lots of their more expensive relatives
I think Shockwave - bought from Susan Band - is a wonderful plant
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Seeing your potfuls of 'Shockwave' Art, I would very much agree with you. :o
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Alex and Ron, my list comes in the next days.
Nice Crocus from all,
here some new flowers from this sunday, 1°C and a bit new snow
Crocus kerndorffiorum
'' sieberi
'' herbertii
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Some more lovely Crocus plants there Dirk. :)
Thanks for adding me to your list, looking forward to seeing it.
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Dirk
What is the crocus to the right of herbertii - two pots
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Arthur, this is C.veluchensis x cvijicii 'Rainbow Gold', my first cross from 2002 ::)
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Everyone is sending in lovely pictures.
Here is a white and a light blue Crocus antalyensis.
Graeme
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Is there someone on the forum
who knows a larger amount C. tommasinianus Eric Smith ,
for a reasonable price , for sale
Roland
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Dirk, I'm crossing veluchensis and cvijicii this year, inspired to make the cross by your 'Rainbow Gold'. I must remember this year to order it from you, to keep me happy until my own seedlings flower :)
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I first thought it was C.chrysanthus Advance
Roland
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That C. tommasinianus 'Eric Smith' is amazing
Roland
very amazing and desireable
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I'm also trying sieberi x cvijicii. Has anyone had success with this cross? It should work as sieberi and veluchensis are so closely related. Apologies if I've asked this before and had an answer before (Lesley, I think you got seedlings from veluchensis x cvijicii? Not sieberi. Or am I mis-remembering?)
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I'm also trying sieberi x cvijicii. Has anyone had success with this cross? It should work as sieberi and veluchensis are so closely related. Apologies if I've asked this before and had an answer before (Lesley, I think you got seedlings from veluchensis x cvijicii? Not sieberi. Or am I mis-remembering?)
I have a good pot of this cross with the seedlings being in their second season.Nothing special about getting seeds ,just dabbed a bit of pollen around and they set.
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I'm also trying sieberi x cvijicii. Has anyone had success with this cross? It should work as sieberi and veluchensis are so closely related. Apologies if I've asked this before and had an answer before (Lesley, I think you got seedlings from veluchensis x cvijicii? Not sieberi. Or am I mis-remembering?)
I have a good pot of this cross with the seedlings being in their second season.Nothing special about getting seeds ,just dabbed a bit of pollen around and they set.
Ah, it must have been a mention from you about having done this cross successfully that I was half-remembering, Tony. I thought it should work okay but good to hear confirmation from someone who's actually done it. I'm using sieberi atticus 'Stunner' from Paul Christian which has good big flowers and produces absolutely masses of them.
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The white Crocus reticulatis was finally captured on a sunny day! And a few others; mayli and cvijicii from Archibald.
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Lovely Aaron. ;) What sort of environment are they growing in please?
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The sun came out on Saturday, so I took my camera out.
1) Sieberi "tricolor"
2) Sieberi "Ronald Ginns"
3) Sieberi "Ronald Ginns" side
4) Sieberi "Hubert Edelston"
5) Gargaricus
6) Gargaricus side
7) Tommasinianus pictus
8) Tommasinianus roseus
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RonM, open garden in mostly full sun. My soil is naturally well drain being a light loess-like soil on a slope. No amendment given to the soil and very limited leaf mulch. Winter temps have approached 7F (not this year) and they require no cover. All my Crocus go in the garden after their 2nd seedling year. If they are fussy they either get along or die. Michelsonii survives in the open as well without a dry summer. Numerous herbaceous plants come in later in the season. In fact, the civijicii grows with Trillium, Paeonia, and Polygonatum!
Aaron
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Thanks Aaron. :). It sounds ( and looks ) like you've got it perfect for a number of the Crocus species. C.michelsonii out in the open, not sure I'm brave enough yet! ::) ::).
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A small sample of crocus in flower last Saturday at Kew taken by my daughter. There were many more large areas covered and looking very nice in the sun
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Admittedly I belong to the ranks of the confirmed Croconuts, but I cannot see all these pots of wee jewels and these spectacular drifts of naturalised crocus without feeling glad..... no.... more than glad...... charmed and happy!
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Well... "glad, charmed and happy" sounds reasonable Maggi ! :D Not all things we see make us feel like that... :-\
Thank your daughter for us Tony ! :D
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Luc i will do that.
First time flowering for this
Crocus gothenburgensis
I am quite pleased with it particularly the striping on the petals
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First time flowering for this
Crocus gothenburgensis
I am quite pleased with it particularly the striping on the petals
That's stunning 8)
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Agreed
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A sublime form Tony !
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Luc i will do that.
First time flowering for this
Crocus gothenburgensis
I am quite pleased with it particularly the striping on the petals
Tony a lovely one. Definitely the best of both parents :o
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Tony
Can't wait to see an open flower
Roland
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Tony
Can't wait to see an open flower
Roland
Thanks all I am pleased with it. Roland that is the best I can do,it flowered whilst I have been away and I have just caught it at its end. Still a good number of bulbs to come and so it will be interesting to see how good they are.
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SHI..
Well next year a new change
or maybe a new flower
Bedtime here
Roland
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Tony
Can't wait to see an open flower
Roland
Thanks all I am pleased with it. Roland that is the best I can do,it flowered whilst I have been away and I have just caught it at its end. Still a good number of bulbs to come and so it will be interesting to see how good they are.
Are they your own seedlings? I'd be interested to know if they display hybrid vigour and are easier to grow than the parents. I was offered pelistericus once but turned it down because I was worried that it wouldn't like my hot, dry garden even in a constantly moist pot. But the very striking potential colour combinations from gotheburgensis suggested by your flower are making me think again about trying the parents here and doing some crosses, especially if the hybrid offspring are likely to be easier going than the parents.
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Very good, Tony.
Janis
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Martin
yes they are my own seedlings and I have three years sowing with pelistericus both the seed and the pollen parent,therefore six pots each with a dozen or so bulbs. I would be interested to know if the name 'gothenburgensis' applies to both crosses. I have not yet produced the F2 hybrid but I am hopeful of seed this year.They are really spectacular.
As to vigour this is an impossible question as I seem to have ideal growing conditions for these particular bulbs and have been growing them for years having produced numerous generations of pelistericus. I have mentioned before our rainfall and I estimate we have not had more than fifty dry days in the last two years. Naturally it is raining as I type this and has been for the last three days. Humidity is high all year round. I cannot grow things such as juno irises which get botrytis and die within days of flowering. Having just returned from the deserts of the south I would say they are just not worth the effort with you.
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Tony, thanks for the advice. That was pretty much my original thinking - that it'd be a shame to kill such decidedly moisture-loving crocus as pelistericus and scardicus trying to grow them here, even in constantly moist pots and despite their beauty and potential for such sumptuous hybrids. But your seedling is so gorgeous that I was having second thoughts. The hybrid name should apply whichever way around the cross is made as genetically the result is the same.
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Hopefully the hybrids will have some hybrid vigour and prove a little less difficult to grow, and so become more widely available and more suitable for gardens like mine (luckily I'm not nearly as dry here in the west as gardens in the drought-stricken east of England, getting a fair bit of rain - though nothing to match your part of the country - but I am on a south-facing hillside which can get pretty hot in summer, when we get one!)
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Re : Crocus x gotoburgensis also spelled as gothenburgensis , gothenbergensis .......
Tony
Can't wait to see an open flower
Roland
Thanks all I am pleased with it. Roland that is the best I can do,it flowered whilst I have been away and I have just caught it at its end. Still a good number of bulbs to come and so it will be interesting to see how good they are.
Are they your own seedlings? I'd be interested to know if they display hybrid vigour and are easier to grow than the parents. I was offered pelistericus once but turned it down because I was worried that it wouldn't like my hot, dry garden even in a constantly moist pot. But the very striking potential colour combinations from gotheburgensis suggested by your flower are making me think again about trying the parents here and doing some crosses, especially if the hybrid offspring are likely to be easier going than the parents.
I must admit that when I first saw the hybrid of these two stunning species, C. pelistericus and C. scardicus, I was somewhat doubtful about the resulting flowers. Now I have got used to them, I find myself mellowing in my opinion. This turnaround has been helped greatly by seeing pictures of the F2 and F3 hybrids raised inGothenberg BG.... these are turning out to be cracking flowers, really eye-catching.
A prospect, of course, that gives the creeps to those who prefer that species be kept pure ! :-X
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At the danger of invoking ire in others, I'm with you Maggi :-X
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Can't remember if Tony posted these pictures here or not... but here is a link to his pix in the NARGS Forum of the parents and their baby..http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=952.0
And in this IRG there is a little about the cross, too....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2011Apr281304030775IRG16_April2011.pdf
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At the danger of invoking ire in others, I'm with you Maggi :-X
We both run the risk of being shot, Ron :P Personally, I don't know why we can't try to do both... preserve species through vegetative propagation and make the occasional hybrid for some added vigour here and there ??? ::)
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But couldn't species vigour be maintained by crossing different clones of the same species? ( he says dangerously, knowing he's swerving close to the species argument again, :'( :'(). I would prefer to see more effort in this direction across the growing community, rather than creating artificial plants, :o. In this way the genetic variability within a species (!) could be better examined. Obviously nothing beats a careful field study, but when was the last one produced? ( and I mean a careful study, as opposed to a collecting trip ). This would in no way be commercial I know.
There is no one who believes in commerce more than I do, by the way.
Am I too black and white? Would my garden be a monotony? I'd probably have a garden full of weak, spindly scrambling roses wouldn't I?
Suppose there must be room for both Maggi, at the end of the day, :)
:-X
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We both run the risk of being shot, Ron Personally, I don't know why we can't try to do both... preserve species through vegetative propagation and make the occasional hybrid for some added vigour here and there
Maggi,I have been pondering that for years. I am a backyard pollen- dauber and frequently get the turned up nose treatment for some of the things I produce. ::) ::) ;D
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Do purists turn their noses up at natural hybrids found in the wild? It's purely geographical chance that keeps species apart which are capable of producing hybrids. As far as I'm concerned, hybridisation is a perfectly natural process. Of course selection of hybrid offspring for aesthetic purposes is another matter altogether, and especially if it's used to produce ever more extreme versions of the flowers involved. That's a matter of taste. I agree with Maggi that there's obviously room for both camps. The purists simply don't have to acquire the hybrids but concentrate on maintaining the species (whatever "species" means). Hybrising in cultivation has no impact on the species in the wild and may even reduce the pressure on wild species by collectors if more vigorous hybrids are available for the gardener. Ron, gene mixing within a species is obviously healthy but it doesn't usually produce the same sort of added vigour that hybridisation can produce. For example, many of the popular and strong-growing "Chrysanthus" crocus are hybrids between true chrysanthus and biflorus.
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All valid points Martin. ;)
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We both run the risk of being shot, Ron :P Personally, I don't know why we can't try to do both... preserve species through vegetative propagation and make the occasional hybrid for some added vigour here and there ??? ::)
I'd second that but some species are very slow vegetative increasers. Intra-specific hybrids, between clones of the same taxa, are what I aim for. If nothing else this gives much better seed set and helps me increase the plants. Mind you, what with the trials of nature and the undiscriminating bees, I get all sorts of oddities!
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I'm not anti species purists of course. I fully understand where they're coming from, and why it's important to maintain pure species in cultivation (for our enjoyment and, increasingly, as a conservation measure). I just don't have a problem with having hybrids too, as garden plants that are often more amenable to cultivation than pure species. I imagine some species purists worry that the hybrids may push out the species in gardeners' affections. But I'd imagine there will always be enough "specialist" gardeners who want to grow the species. At least I hope so.
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Speaking of hybrids - do sieberii and tomassianus cross? I have some plants occurring in my lawn that I suddenly realized could be such a cross. Picture:
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Crocus 'Ruby Giant' in a pot in the cold frame
Crocus tommasinianus 'Whitewell Purple' in grass in my brother's garden. I think it is over 30 years since I planted it there.
I must plant more crocuses in my own garden.
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Speaking of hybrids - do sieberii and tomassianus cross? I have some plants occurring in my lawn that I suddenly realized could be such a cross. Picture:
It's highly unlikely. They're not at all closely related. These look like pure tommasinianus to me.
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Speaking of hybrids - do sieberi and tomassianus cross? I have some plants occurring in my lawn that I suddenly realized could be such a cross. Picture:
It's highly unlikely. They're not at all closely related. These look like pure tommasinianus to me.
OK, thanks. It's what I thought but I noticed that the tepals, stamens and stigmas vary a lot. Some do look more like sieberi than tomassinianus.
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You can get a lot of variation from seed in tommasinianus. Sieberi has a yellow throat and I can't see any sign of that in your crocus.
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You can get a lot of variation from seed in tommasinianus. Sieberi has a yellow throat and I can't see any sign of that in your crocus.
OK, no yellow throats on these! Thanks.
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You can get a lot of variation from seed in tommasinianus. Sieberi has a yellow throat and I can't see any sign of that in your crocus.
OK, no yellow throats on these! Thanks.
I agree with Martin. I'm now in mountains so not often can reach internet and so rarely checking entries.
Janis
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Wishing you good hunting Janis, ;).
Travel safe please.
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Jim.
Take another look at your C kosaninii. It does not look like the ones I grow. Maybe it's just a trick of the light, as can happen with photos, but it looks a bit like C etruscus or C dalmaticus to me.
Thanks, Tony, for the heads up. You're right that it's probably not kosaninii. I was given 4 clumps of crocus, 4 names and told I could match them up! Three plants matched perfectly three names. So the last I thought was within reasonable, far-end variation of C. kos., looking at the books, etc. (but not noting the tunic before planting). I've written my friend to see what else he's growing, all bought from one vendor in the past 10 years. C. etruscus does looks very close.
Jim
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Do crocuses get Stagonospora? A pot of C. fleischeri appears to be badly infected by it. Also, my pot of C. minimus, has only froduced a few shoots this year. I knocked them out to have a look, expecting to find the others rotten, or eaten, but they are fine and firm, but still dormant. Any ideas?
I don't know about Stagonospora, but crocus do not appear to be doing well this year. A number of mine have very unhealthy looking leaves & others have just disappeared. I assume this is the effect of the severe cold of the 10-11 winter exacerbated by the cold snap this winter.