Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Oron Peri on January 07, 2012, 09:36:35 AM
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Not really belongs to this thread, Hyacinthus orientalis.
These plants are grown from seeds collected at low elevation above the Lake of Galilee,
It as an early bloomer, starting mid December.
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Muscari macrocarpum a little early
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Muscari macrocarpum a little early
Yes it is and mine have just nosed up out of there pots.
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Perhaps another 2012 thread needed here when you get a sec Maggi.
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Thanks David...obviously haven't got my brain in gear that it's2012 now :-[
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Thanks David...obviously haven't got my brain in gear that it's2012 now :-[
Mine hasn't got into gear since The Millennium ;D Does that two "l's" it doesn't look right ???
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I'm rather taken by Hyacinthellas and am building a little collection and so far have glabrescens, lineata and millengrenii. Pretty but unassuming little things but I think they look their best in close-up.
Hyacinthella lineata-a buy from Bob and Rannveig Wallis
H. glabrescens-a pot of seedlings sown August 2008 (AGS Seed Ex. 08/09-3285) and flowering for the first time. I have a larger glabrescens, again from Bob and Rannveig yet to flower.
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David they are lovely.
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Thanks Dave, they are pretty.
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Very pretty, David. A few days ago I had a pot full of Hyacinthella lineata (seeds from AGS) ready to flower for the first time. Only the pot and the bulbs (I hope) left now and somewhere a mouse with a full stomach >:(.
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They are really nice David.
I just came back from Cyprus where hundreds of thousands of Hyacinthella millingenii are blooming now.
They are growing in low elevations 50 - 300m[mostly] but seen also up to 500m.
It is a tiny species, usually 3-5cm and when protected from the winds it can reach even 12cm as the one in the photo, but this is not very common.
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Thank you Oron. Nice to see what my millengenii will look like.
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Thank you Oron. Nice to see what my millengenii will look like.
David do find this group of plants easy to cultivate(Hyacinthellas),i am having a problem with some of muscari this year the tips of the leaves are yellowing,can't think why,i am doing just the same as i have done in previous years.
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I really like David's little hyacinthellas - I've only tried these outside on a raised bed but have not managed to establish them. They are so small that they are probably better in pots. We do grow a lot of muscari in the garden and they associate very well with other bulbs. They are always so early in leaf which is a bit disconcerting. In the garden some do show yellowing of the leaf tips, though it doesn't seem to set them back. One of the most exquisite, a delicate little gem, is M. mcbeathianum. I hope I get a few flowers to post of this later on.
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I am always very pleased when this little gem surfaces
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I really like David's little hyacinthellas - I've only tried these outside on a raised bed but have not managed to establish them. They are so small that they are probably better in pots. We do grow a lot of muscari in the garden and they associate very well with other bulbs. They are always so early in leaf which is a bit disconcerting. In the garden some do show yellowing of the leaf tips, though it doesn't seem to set them back. One of the most exquisite, a delicate little gem, is M. mcbeathianum. I hope I get a few flowers to post of this later on.
Cheers for that Tim,i am probably worrying for nothing.I am always very pleased when this little gem surfaces
Art that is a little stunner very nice indeed.
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What is it, Art?
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Possibly anatolicum
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I am always very pleased when this little gem surfaces
I thought it was M.discolor Art when i first saw it.
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I am always very pleased when this little gem surfaces
I thought it was M.discolor Art when i first saw it.
And you are right 8)
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I am always very pleased when this little gem surfaces
I thought it was M.discolor Art when i first saw it.
They are very similar. I hope to flower a known discolor later - we can compare
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Thank you Oron. Nice to see what my millengenii will look like.
David do find this group of plants easy to cultivate(Hyacinthellas),i am having a problem with some of muscari this year the tips of the leaves are yellowing,can't think why,i am doing just the same as i have done in previous years.
Dave,
Not difficult at all really, they get same understated attention that everything else in my greenhouse gets. ;D I've noticed one or two things in the greenhouse, mainly little Narcissus, with yellow tips on the leaves (as have some in the garden) and I would guess, perhaps, at low light levels. I wonder if Ian Young might have an answer for this problem.
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I wonder if Ian Young might have an answer for this problem.
Dunno.... I'll ask him.
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Ta Maggi
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I second that,thanks Maggie
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While yellow tips to the leaves is not fully healthy it is not always too bad.
Lastyear at this time that was the first indication that I had of the frost damage caused to the roots and bulbs but that is unlikely to be the cause in the UK this year so far.
Drying at the root could cause the problem . Lack of light shows up at the bottom of the leaves as they come through the soil.
If the yellow is just at the extreme tip it may just be the old bits of the leaf dying back slightly but if the yellow continues to spread downwards there must be a cause at the bulb or root.
Treatment, make sure that the bulbs are not too dry.
Just to add more confusion if the bulbs are too wet the symptoms are the same as the roots can only take up water when there is air around them. Also prolonged periods of excess moisture can cause wet rot in the roots, bulb plus the underground parts of the leaves and stems.
I have a few Crocus and Narcissus with yellow tips that I am watching carefully and apart from the yellowing I see no other major problem in them so far.
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Many thanks Ian, I'll continue to keep an eye on them.
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A big thank you from me as well,Ian can i ask can to much nutrient cause a similar symptom,i wasn't careful with the bonemeal,could i have overloaded with it?
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I'll get Ian back to this.
Some comments in another thread, (where Diane C is worring about a possible Stagonospora curtisii infection) have raised doubts in my mind that we have been discussing the same typre of "yellowing tips"
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8423.0
???
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Maggie we are on the same page i suppose yellowing tips on snowdrops are a different thing to yellow tips on my muscari,i'll take pics later.
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Yes, I'm thinking the tip area of the leaf yellowing and dying back.... Diane's pic shows yellow patches near the leaf tip... not the same thing.
I think David N. is away for a couple of days... so it may take him a while to catch up with this and discuss what his leaves are like. :-X
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Still here, away from tomorrow morning. Just a yellow spot at the very end of the leaves and not looking like it's travelling down the leaves.
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So : looking more like Diane's pic?
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Yes.
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Yes.
Err... um... then we are at cross purposes.... will go get the BD!
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Yes we are all talking about different things - there are yellow tips and YELLOW tips.
I thought it was yellow caused by die back on the leaf tips only - which is mostly caused by ecological and not disease.
In Diane's pics we see that all the leafs have a slight yellow bit on the tip of all the leaves - this is nothing to worry about as it is the hardened tip the plant has evolved to push through hard ground.
The leaves in the centre of Diane's picture with the clear YELLOW areas, not confined to the tips, is something to keep an eye on. If it is stag of another fungal attack then you will soon notice distortion around the yellow zone as the leaf tries to grow then areas will turn brown then spores will develop - this is a fungal attack.
I would tear off the infected part of the leaves immediately and watch to see that no more areas become infected - if they do then isolating the pot or as Mark suggests checking the bulb for any symptoms.
Feeding with Potassium not only helps build flower buds for next year but also boosts the bulbs immune system so an early application could help the bulbs resist these attacks.
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Thanks Ian and Maggi. Relief on my part but I'll keep a close watch on them, and feed them too.
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Muscari azureum, from JJA #688.205. Described as 'Turkey, Kahramanmaraş, S of Goksun. 1240m. Cultivated field. Ex R.& R.Wallis 93-28' on Sep. 2008 seed list :)
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Hyacinthella dalmatica, just starting to flower.
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Very nice Wim I did not realise there were any that were not squinny - this is really quite substantial :)
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I agree with Art that is lovely Wim,super thing.
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I agree with Art that is lovely Wim,super thing.
Very nice Wim I did not realise there were any that were not squinny - this is really quite substantial :)
Thanks,
I think it's quite lovely, too. It elongates only a bit as the flower matures, as you can see here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6606.msg194198#msg194198
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I remember now Wim stunning thing.
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Muscari sp. from JJA Seeds (#689.851 Muscari leucostomum, ex. Tadjikistan).
Last year I posted this muscari as M. leucostomum by JJA seed list, and Janis kindly advised me this is not a M. leucostomum at least.
Muscari leucostomum from JJA Seeds (#689.851 ex Tadjikistan). I got this #689.851 seeds instead of "#689.850 ex Turkmenistan" on September 2008 list. It would be great if someone who knows further information tells me about it.
Afraid that it is not leucostomum, flowers far too light blue.
Janis
I still only have the seed number now :( Does anyone have further information about JJA #689.851??? please!
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Hyacinthella dalmatica 'Grandiflora'. Blooming time is more than 2 weeks later than the last year.
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I still only have the seed number now :( Does anyone have further information about JJA #689.851??? please!
This is what it says in Jim's catalogue
689.851 : Muscari leucostomum (Subgen. Botryanthus) Tadjikistan, no further data. An eastern species, allied to M. neglectum, barely known in cultivation. Distinct blue-black flowers.
The "blue-black flowers" doesn't sound like yours.
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Diane, thank you so much for the description on JJA list :) :) :) #689.851 isn't listed on any JJA lists I have.
My muscari labeled as #689.851 sounds different to the description in any way ???
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Sorry to bother you again Diane but what was JJA 689.850 if possible. This seems to be I think what Yt originally ordered. Maybe he got the right seeds with a typo on the numbering?
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Diane, thank you so much for the description on JJA list :) :) :) #689.851 isn't listed on any JJA lists I have.
My muscari labeled as #689.851 sounds different to the description in any way ???
My Muscari leucostomum has blue black flowers its here labelled wrong as muscari adilii.http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6606.0
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Hyacinthella dalmatica grow and flower well in my meadow.
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Ron, here you are. JJA #689.850: MUSCARI LEUCOSTOMUM (Subgen. Botryanthus)* Turkmenistan, Kopet Dag, near Duschak. Ex a J. Ruksans coll. (an eastern species, allied to M. neglectum, barely known in cultivation. Distinct blue-black flowers.) My misterious muscari is not #689.850 at least by the description, I suppose.
Thank you, Davey :) You've finally identifyed that muscari :D
Franz, your white one is lovely 8) Are your H. dalmatica fertile? My 'Grandiflora' looks sterile :(
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here are a couple of nt idetified plants, a little muscari with two leaves, and a big one grey/pink.
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Here is muscari "Early Rose" starting today.
John B
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Franz, your white one is lovely 8) Are your H. dalmatica fertile? My 'Grandiflora' looks sterile :(
I do not know whether the white H. dalmatica is fertile.
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here are a couple of nt idetified plants, a little muscari with two leaves, and a big one grey/pink.
Rafa,
I think first is Hyacinthella nervosa, second is Bellevalia nivalis.
Oron
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I agree with Oron.
Janis
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Bellevalia pycnantha ? from (AGS) Star seed, sown 14/12/06.
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Michael,
Looks right compared to what I have under that name. The buds are an unusual teal colour, almost like some of the "viridiflora" flower colours. I love it for that, and then it opens so lovely and dark. Good multiplier for me too, I must say.
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M. kerkis
Samos, Mt. Profitis Ilias. From Peter Korn 2011.
apologies for the background but camera wont focus properly on something so small.
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Ron, thank you for sharing a pic of rare muscari
Here is Muscari armeniacum from pink form, JJA list code: 688.012. Ex R.& R. Wallis 90-50. Original collection: Turkey, Konya, S of Beysehir Golu. 1100m. Roadside verge.
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Thanks YT. The M.kerkis has opened more now and has a second spike. Its looking to be a little beauty. ;D
Really liking this famous pink one you are showing us.Very nice indeed.
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Tatsuo,
Wow, that really is pink, isn't it? :o You must be pleased with that. I grow 'Rose Beauty' here, which is supposed to be pink..... I guess if you use your imagination enough you could call it pink, as there is a vague tinge of it. No idea whether it is just my conditions, or whether it is just a very pale variety. Yours really IS pink, which is nice to see. 8)
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M.kerkis
I didn't really know what to expect from this species, and I now think my previous posting was a little premature. :-[
This is it today,
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One of the first this seasion is this one unknown species (may be polyanthus which I got many years ago from my Czech friend Vaclav. One of my favourites.
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Muscari discolor which I nicknamed - "sausage" muscari
Janis
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Lovely Janis.
Here in Yorkshire that would be a 'Black Pudding' Muscari :D
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Muscari discolor which I nicknamed - "sausage" muscari
Janis
Lovely Muscari Janis
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It really is an elongated flower, isn't it!
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Here is a species not identified from Pakistan
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Rafa
I think it is B. saviczii.
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Bellevalia saviczii
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250090375
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/6380.html
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Maggy, Oron, thank you veryt much for the identification.
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Some common muscari in my garden:
Muscari armenaicum and 'Vallerie Finis'
Muscari aucheri
Muscari armenaicum 'Gül'
Muscari latifolium in front of withered M. azureum Album. Both self seeded. (Pretty weed!)
Muscari armenaicum self seeded. This clump has been there for many years. They have a soil area of 10 X 10 cm.
Muscari armenaicum self seeded. They don't need much space!
Poul
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Bellevalia gracilis from Urgup, Turkey. A kind gift from Tony W.
B. tabriziana
Hyacinthella leucophaea from the seed exchange (SRGC 62/1878) Brimeura amethystina
Muscari sp. from Dumplinar (?), Afyon, Turkey; another one of Tony's.
M. dionysicum
M. neglectum from Aguilar de Campoo, Spain
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Lovely collection Ashley.
Your Muscari in my opinion is M. aucheri [not very developed]while the next one is Leopoldia tenuiflora [syn M. tenuiflorum] by the very short pedicels and dense inflorescence]
M. dionysicum is a synonym for Leopoldia weissii [syn M. weissii] which looks quite different, would be interesting to see it when fully open.
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Thanks for the IDs and comments Oron.
Certainly the dense immature inflorescence on this 'M. dionysicum' resembles that of Leopoldia tenuiflora. However the plant is robust (35-40 cm) with strong ascending foliage, and pedicels elongate to about 1 cm in due course, rather different in those respects from what I have as tenuiflora (thinner, broader, rather lax foliage; shorter pedicels, smaller size overall). Maybe this just reflects variation between populations but unfortunately I have little provenance information, except that the 'M. dionysicum' came from a commercial source under collection number AH8965 so presumably derived from Antoine Hoog's collection from Mt Grammos, Ioannina, Greece of what is now Leopoldia weisii.
I'll post again later when both are mature.
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Muscari dionysicum is now fully developed so I can compare it with M. tenuiflorum.
What I have as M. dionysicum AH8965 (syn. for Leopoldia weissii (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-280823), or according to Martin Philippo M. comosum 'Epirus Giant' (http://home.tiscali.nl/hennessy/Species%20and%20cultivars.htm)) has: (pix 1-3)
- yellow teeth
- open mouth
- pedicels 6-10 mm at flowering, lengthening to 12-15 mm later (i.e. somewhat longer than Peter Davis describes in The Flora of Turkey)
- leaves emerging late (late March-April here), ascending, fleshy, remain green to tips, shorter than scape
Therefore this plant from NW Greece is somewhat distinct from the form of L. weissii you showed from Rhodes (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2883.msg79846;topicseen#msg79846) Oron.
By contrast, this form of Muscari tenuiflorum (syn. of Leopoldia tenuiflora (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-280827), from a collection N of Refahye, Turkey via Jānis) has: (pix 4-6) - black teeth
- constricted mouth
- pedicels c. 2 mm that elongate very little after flowering
- leaves emerging early (December/January here), lax, thin, die back extensively at tips but longer than scape
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Thanks Ashley!
Definitely different from the populations in the south Mediterranean.
Thanks for showing it.
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Muscari mcbeathianum - grown from SRGC seedex 2004 - not its first flowering, though.
cheers
fermi
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Some more muscari and a relative,
Muscari muscarimi
Bellevalia pycnantha
seedling Muscari ex "Gul [Delight]"
cheers
fermi
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Can i ask if anybody has any info on this Muscari sp http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Muscari_vuralii.htm (http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Muscari_vuralii.htm)
To me looks like macbeathianum
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Muscari mcbeathianum - grown from SRGC seedex 2004 - not its first flowering, though.
cheers
fermi
Fermi you have made me a very happy chap posting a pic of my favourite little muscari sp a real gem and one i am waiting on delivery of.Beautiful.
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Can i ask if anybody has any info on this Muscari sp http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Muscari_vuralii.htm (http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Muscari_vuralii.htm)
To me looks like macbeathianum
Closely related, I think.
This from the Wiley page about the original paper :
Muscari vuralii sp. nov. (Liliaceae/Hyacinthaceae) from south Anatolia, Turkey
Süleyman Doğu,
Yavuz Bağcı
Article first published online: 23 MAR 2009
DOI: 10.1111/j.1756-1051.2009.00427.x
© 2009 The Authors
Nordic Journal of Botany
Volume 27, Issue 3, pages 243–246, June 2009
Muscari vuralii Y. Bağcı & Doğu sp. nov. (Liliaceae/Hyacinthaceae) from the Karaman (C4 Karaman–Turkey) is described and illustrated. It is closely related to M. coeleste Fomin and M. macbeathianum Kit Tan. Diagnostic morphological characters are discussed and a key to related Muscari species in Turkey is given. The geographical distribution of the new species is mapped. Notes are also presented on its ecology, biogeography and conservation status.
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Cheers for that Maggie it has been put on top of my wants list,i love the bicolor flower dark inner and small nature win win and win again and would be nice on the show bench.
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Fermi you have made me a very happy chap posting a pic of my favourite little muscari sp a real gem and one i am waiting on delivery of.Beautiful.
Cheers, Davey,
I origianlly bought one from Marcus Harvey, but had this one flower from seed as well, so hopefully I'll be able to set seed on it if I get a paint-brush small enough!
I like that new species :o Let me know if you find a source!
cheers
fermi
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I will Fermi,in the mean time could somebody tell me if Muscari heldreichii is a synonym of Muscari botryoides please.
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.......... could somebody tell me if Muscari heldreichii is a synonym of Muscari botryoides please.
It is according to the Kew Plantlist, Davey:
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-281844 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-281844)
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It is according to the Kew Plantlist, Davey:
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-281844 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-281844)
Thank you Maggie :)