Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Ferns => Topic started by: zen on December 17, 2011, 08:22:00 PM

Title: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 17, 2011, 08:22:00 PM
Ferns are associated primarily with shadowy woodland, but there are many species that, like alpine plants, grow in rock crevices. I've encountered some of rock ferns even in really high mountains (like 3000 m. AMSL).
Some are quite large, like Dryopteris villari or Polystichum lonchistis, and the others, like Asplenim septentrionale or Asplenium fisum, are small in size.
I would like to show you a couple of pictures showing ferns that I've met in their natural habitat, as well as some of those that grow in my own garden.
Ferns may be an interesting part of the rock garden and I hope I'll to convince you to that.
Maybe some of you also show your ferns?

Asplenium trichomanes

(http://images49.fotosik.pl/140/0e1966172fe99a78med.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl)



Cystopteris fragilis

(http://images47.fotosik.pl/163/de2c5265eca7110cmed.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl)

Asplenium ruta-muraria

(http://images49.fotosik.pl/162/d073f73b9f646d53med.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl)



various ferns in rock crevice

(http://images40.fotosik.pl/157/0c9f108180e9565amed.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl)

some photos no longer available via photobucket- links removed
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on December 17, 2011, 08:23:33 PM
Beautiful photos, Zen  :D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on December 17, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
Superb, Zen ... more please!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: kindredspiritkevin on December 18, 2011, 10:54:07 AM
Can't match the quality of those pics but I potted up a trough last week with Rusty Back (Ceterach Officinarum) and Spleenwort, maidenhair (Asplenium Trichomanes) in the soil they were growing in from a Slate Quarry slagheap. (Farmer gave them to me.)


I think they're ideal for troughs.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 18, 2011, 06:44:56 PM
 I'm glad that you liked my photos. Small ferns are very good for trought.

Asplenium ruta-muraria, saxifraga paniculata and sepervivum tectorum

(photos no longer available via photobucket. )
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: maggiepie on December 18, 2011, 08:24:59 PM
Fantastic pics, Zen.

I love ferns and have a few indoors.
They really brighten up the long winter.

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 18, 2011, 09:43:05 PM
Hi zen!
I'm a fan of ferns too - both small and large. I haven't pictured all I have though, but here are two:
Matteuccia struthiopteris and Asplenium septentrionale. The first one is growing in my woodland at home and the second one is growing at my cabin.
I'll see if I can dig up more pictures later.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maren on December 18, 2011, 10:48:21 PM
Ferns are great favourites of mine too, I have them in pots, troughs, beds and popping up where I didn't expect them.

I would love them even more if I could get them to be in perfect frond in mid March when I really want them on my display stand at the London Orchid Show. Even the gardencentres can't come up with anything other than the subtropical maidenhair fern. They are lovely with tropical orchids but quite out of character for my pleione display. Can any one suggest a smallish fern that I might be able to coax into lush greenery at that difficult time of year?

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on December 19, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Maren,
Most ferns are too big for your purpose but Asplenium trichomanes is green all year round, nice looking and not too big. A. fontanum might be another choice. Ceterach officinarum and A. ruta-muraria are also smallish but suggest arid environment that does not seem right for Pleiones.
Good luck
Göte

 
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: shelagh on December 19, 2011, 02:41:17 PM
Hi Zen,

Asplenium fissum and rhizophyllum both look terrific if you have any spores of these I would love a pinch.

Maren I agree that Asplenium trichomanes and fontanum both being evergreen would look well in March but A. fontanum is rather hard to find.  Woodsia polystichoides comes through early though and looks lovely and fresh, a lime green.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on December 19, 2011, 07:07:35 PM
Some of the smaller cultivars of Asplenium scolopendrium would look nice, such as 'Cornutum abruptum' or 'Kaye's laceratum' or 'Peraferans'. Polypodium 'Hornet' is very dwarf. Blechnum penna-marina is easy to get lots of - it runs like mad.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maren on December 19, 2011, 07:49:39 PM
Thank you all for your lovely suggestions. I shall put my nose into the fern catalogue and hope to find the ones you mentioned. It would be soooo nice. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 20, 2011, 11:51:12 AM
Hoy That's great to have your own cliff with Asplenium septentrionale. You can plant there other rock ferns. I also like large ferns, especially those of the genus Dryopteris and Polystichum. I have more than one hundred species of ferns.

MarenYou should also consider the ferns of the genus cheilanthes for example Cheilanthes acrostica or other. They are small and always green. If you want I can send you a young plant Cheilanthes acrostica

shelagh If my seedlings Asplenium fissum  are well established I will send them to you in the spring. I have also spores and I can send them to you now. I do not have spores of Asplenium fissum but maybe in the spring I will be able to share my plant.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maren on December 20, 2011, 12:38:32 PM
Zen,
I would love that. My address is on my website.

I have looked around and only 3 of the suggested ferns are commercially available.
I will be looking for:

Asplenium fontanum
Asplenium ruta-muraria
Asplenium scolopendrium 'Cornutum abruptum'
Asplenium scolopendrium 'Peraferans'
Ceterach officinarum
Polypodium 'Hornet'
Woodsia polystichoides

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 20, 2011, 09:48:00 PM
Anybody growing Botrychium?

I do "grow" some at my mountain cabin. They are actually wild but prefere open meadows so I mow the grass in late summer or early autumn. I have three or four species there.

Here are three or four of them: B. boreale, lanceolatum, lunaria and an unknown.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zephirine on December 21, 2011, 07:21:01 AM

Thank you zen for launching this topic!  :)
And all of you for such lovely pics! Go on, go on, please!
I love ferns too...in my ill-drained soil, the more succesfull are definitely Polystichum, followed by Asplenium scolopendrium  and a few Dryopteris.
Among the smaller ones, some of my favourites are:
- Aspelnium scolopendium angustifolium
- Polystichum braunii
- Polystichum makinoi
- Athyrium filix-femina 'Frizelliae'
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 21, 2011, 09:22:44 AM
Maren I will send You ferns after Christmas :)

Hoy it's great to have so many species of rare ferns that grow wild on our own land. I cultivate Botrychium lunaria and Ophioglossum vulgatum. . Botrychium is difficult to grow plants. I dream about other Botrychium species but they are hard to come by.
Hoy please show your other ferns :)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 21, 2011, 02:25:37 PM
Maren I will send You ferns after Christmas :)

Hoy it's great to have so many species of rare ferns that grow wild on our own land. I cultivate Botrychium lunaria and Ophioglossum vulgatum. . Botrychium is difficult to grow plants. I dream about other Botrychium species but they are hard to come by.
Hoy please show your other ferns :)

I'll show more if I find the pictures but I do not think I have all digital, some are old slides. Have to renew my pictures ;)
If you are interested we can swap spores. However, I have never tried to germinate Botrychium spores but I regularly sow other spores.

PS
Found only these: The common Polypodium vulgare. It's a bit busy now!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maren on December 21, 2011, 09:02:48 PM
Dear Zen,

your pictures reminded me of a trip to the Burren in Ireland in 2008, where I accompanied the Irish Orchid Society on their annual field trip. These ferns intrigued me and I'm not sure of their exact names.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: kindredspiritkevin on December 21, 2011, 09:57:56 PM
Ferns of the Burren.

http://www.irishwildflowers.ie/more/ferns.html (http://www.irishwildflowers.ie/more/ferns.html)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 22, 2011, 09:13:30 AM
zephirine I am very glad that you liked my pictures. Your ferns are very nice. I also like Polystichum  makinoi and P. braunii.

Hoy Thank you for your suggestions swap spores but I'm afraid  that propagation of Botrychium spores is too difficult for me. I'm curious about your experience with the propagation of ferns from spores.

Maren fern on your photos are: Asplenium trichomanes, Ceterach officinarum, Asplenium (Phyllitis) scolopendrium and Adiantum capillis-veneris


Rock with Asplenium trichomanes, Asplenium ruta-muraria and Polypodium vulgare

(http://images46.fotosik.pl/161/5fe4a8303767b96emed.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl)

Polypodium vulgare in my garden


(http://images50.fotosik.pl/197/99302daf4c452d27med.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 22, 2011, 09:41:55 AM
Does anyone of you plant Asplenium marinum? This fern growing in Ireland. It is a small, evergreen, grows in the rocks and I really like :-)
I can not find it  :(
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: kindredspiritkevin on December 22, 2011, 05:13:56 PM
Does anyone of you plant Asplenium marinum? This fern growing in Ireland. It is a small, evergreen, grows in the rocks and I really like :-)
I can not find it  :(

Don't have this one in my garden. The lows of up to -14°C last winter would have killed them anyway.

Talk to Mike in Shady Plants, Youghal, Ireland. http://www.shadyplants.net/ (http://www.shadyplants.net/)

In January I'll be visiting a couple of people who have gardens in the Burren area and I can ask them for you.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Tim Ingram on December 24, 2011, 11:36:08 AM
I have a few rock ferns on my sand bed; Asplenium ceterach and trichomanes and Woodsia obtusa. I would love to try more, especially the Cheilanthes, of which I have grown a few in the past in pots. Really nice to see this thread - I think there is definitely a growing interest in ferns again as garden plants, and very well deserved. Does anyone have experience of growing xerophytic species in the garden rather then greenhouse?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Tony Willis on December 24, 2011, 03:52:09 PM
here is Ceterach officinarum growing on a limestone  boulder with some form of rosularia sp near Kemer in Turkey
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on December 24, 2011, 04:31:29 PM
... And a lovely Maidenhair fern (Adiantum capillus-veneris) photographed in Zion National Park, Utah.


Adiantum capillus-veneris
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on December 24, 2011, 04:55:23 PM
... And two from the Picos de Europa in northern Spain.


Asplenium septentrionale
Picos fern

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 26, 2011, 10:04:14 PM
...- and Picos fern is a Asplenium trichomanes or A. adulterinum?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 27, 2011, 12:52:19 PM

kindredspiritkevin thank you very much for offering to find this fern for me. It's nice  :)

Tim Ingram in my garden  ferns (  cheilanthes species)  that do not like a lot of  moisture grow well. In the autum I cover them from too much moisture.

rannuculus very nice photos  :)

Cheilanthes fendleri

(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af286/peter_rabbit/My%20garden/ferns/Chfendlerii.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zvone on December 27, 2011, 05:30:32 PM
Hi zen!

Your ferns is beautiful.

Rocky ferns are obligatory component part of garden also at me:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jdj9-YfVYao/TvoABdm9NyI/AAAAAAAADz0/-u3Payj1-4Q/s640/IMG_4353-srgc.jpg)

Best regards!  Zvone

My pictures Slovenian Mountain:  http://zvone.blogspot.si/
My Rocky Japanese Garden: http://zvonem.blogspot.si/
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 27, 2011, 07:19:20 PM
zephirine I am very glad that you liked my pictures. Your ferns are very nice. I also like Polystichum  makinoi and P. braunii.

Hoy Thank you for your suggestions swap spores but I'm afraid  that propagation of Botrychium spores is too difficult for me. I'm curious about your experience with the propagation of ferns from spores.


I usually fill a plastic box with a growing medium (I often use ordinary but sterile compost) sprinkle out the spores and put on the lid and place the box in bright light but not in direct sunshine.

Some spores germinate in a couple of weeks but other need many months. It is not necessary to water as long as the lid is on. Actually I have grown ferns for 5 years in a box like that without doing anything but adding a few drops of water once or twice a year to replace what evaporates when I open the lid!

A bad picture but you get the idea:

[attachthumb=1]
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: kelaidis on December 27, 2011, 08:30:07 PM
Delighted to find this thread on ferns...they were one of my first horticultural loves (and I still love them). The harsh steppe climate of Denver is hard one ferns, but we do grow a few...this is a new one from Mongolia that has been doing well the last few years: a Pyrrhosia (if anyone can identify the species I would appreciate it!)...
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 27, 2011, 09:52:28 PM
How very unferny looking that thing is!  I googled Pyrrhosia/Pyrrosia; did you know of the Pyrrosia web site?
http://www.pyrrosia.com/

Those are some wacky looking ferns, and I mean that in a good way  :)

PK, I think your unferny fern migh be the miniature form of P. lingua, see:
http://tulear.blogspot.com/2008/11/pyrrosia-lingua.html
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on December 28, 2011, 08:42:07 AM
...- and Picos fern is a Asplenium trichomanes or A. adulterinum?
Adulterinum is supposed to have "frond stems" that are dark att the bottom and green at the top is it not?
Thus trichomanes but the trichomanes of Scandinavia is different from the trichomanes I have seen in Spain which might have been ssp coriacefolium.
Göte
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 28, 2011, 05:42:16 PM
...- and Picos fern is a Asplenium trichomanes or A. adulterinum?
Adulterinum is supposed to have "frond stems" that are dark att the bottom and green at the top is it not?
Thus trichomanes but the trichomanes of Scandinavia is different from the trichomanes I have seen in Spain which might have been ssp coriacefolium.
Göte
Yes, adultrinum being a cross between trichomanes and viride is dark at the bottom and green at the top of the rachis. I have seen it only once.

And I have to second Mark: That Pyrrhosia is a very unferny fern!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Bjarne on December 28, 2011, 06:16:25 PM
Are Asplenium adultrinum in cultivation?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: razvan chisu on December 28, 2011, 07:28:04 PM
nice topic Zen!

i found some packets of fern spores in a drawer. they must be more than 5 years old.
does anyone know how long do fern spores retain their viability?

the ferns in question are
blechnum procerum, blechnum vulcanicum, pneumatopteris pennigera, polystichum richardii and pyrrosia eleagnifolia

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: shelagh on December 28, 2011, 07:35:59 PM
Give them a go Razvan, what have you got to lose. Mine just sit on the windowsill (not in full sun) until they decide to do something.  All it takes is a pot of sterilised  compost and some clingfilm and a saucer of water.  Easy peasy ;D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: razvan chisu on December 28, 2011, 07:51:53 PM
well that was my intention, but searching for information on viability I found two references of germination of spores "on water" or in distilled water.

on water: http://www.jstor.org/pss/1547739
in water: "spore of several ferns posses the peculiar virtue of being able to germinate in distilled water or on the surface of agar solidified in water" http://books.google.ro/books?id=C2Zb6lhIeScC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

has anyone tried germinating them in this way?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 28, 2011, 09:14:54 PM
Razvan here is advice ;)
 " Some growers recommend using distilled water, but I have found normal tap water, which has settled overnight to release chlorine, to be just fine."
 Sue Olsen "Encyclopedia of garden ferns"

"Distilled or cooled boiled water is best during these early stages. Top water can be an unwanted source of algae"
 B.J. Hoshizaki&R.C. Moran "Fern grower's manual"

I use tap water but I think it would be better boiled. Next year I'll use boiled.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: razvan chisu on December 28, 2011, 09:28:00 PM
yes, I also used boiled water.

from those 2 references I mentioned earlier, I understand some ferns germinate in pure water, no soil.
so this is how my experiment looks.

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 28, 2011, 09:44:34 PM
Razvan
I propagate ferns from spores in the soil. I never tried only in the water and I do not know if this is possible.
I use the water for fertilization gametophyte.
Here is the short explanation of haw to do it.

http://www.hardyferns.org/fern-info-propagation.php
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on December 28, 2011, 10:37:20 PM
When we looked after the British Pteridological Society's spore exchange, we devised a simple method of propagation by spores, which we called 'The Wright Way to grow ferns from spores' (a play on our name). We think it is foolproof  ::)
If anyone would like it, please email me.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: kelaidis on December 29, 2011, 04:50:55 AM
Ferns were one of my first loves horticulturally, and rock ferns are indispensible in my gardens. I am chagrined to see I have virtually no pictures of some of the ones I've grown the longest and love the most (especially various pellaeas, cheilanthes and other hot rock ferns from the American Southwest). Or rather, I have lots of tranparencies of these...but I have taken some shots in both the wild and a few in my garden I'd love to share...

1) The first is a Polypodium vulgare form with very long fronds I photographed in the Altai mountains of Kazakhstan in 2010: I did collect some spore. I'd better check and see if they've sown them!
2) Pyrrhosia sp. ex Mongolia was a gift of Harlan Hamernik when he visited four or five years ago. It persists (to my amazement), although since he did collect it in Mongolia I shouldn't be too surprised. This is in my private garden in Denver, Colorado.
3) I believe this is a woodsia, although it could be Cystopteris as well. I did not look carefully. But it has more of a Woodsia look to me. I photographed this in the Altai as well two years ago.
4) I have grown Pellaea atropurpurea both at my home and Denver Botanic Gardens. This sporeling self sowed on the giant Dolormitic limestone boulders in the garden. The parent was probably one we obtained from an Eastern nursery source. Ironically, 5) Pellaea atropurpurea does grow on these very rocks which were quarried for the Rock Alpine Garden, although we did not get any with the rocks. The quarry is busy destroying the only station for this Pellaea in northern Colorado (although it is known in the southern part of the state.)
6) Asplenium trichomanes growing in the Drakensberg Mountains of South Africa  (looks like I have seen it all over the northern Hemisphere)
7) My favorite South African rock fern is Cheilanthes eckloniana, which grows all over the foothills of the Drakensberg, and also throughout the Karoo (Which can be very hot and dry). I was thrilled to get this from a high source in the East Cape from Plant Delights Nursery which grows these and many other choice rock ferns from spore.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: razvan chisu on December 29, 2011, 08:03:20 AM
@ panayoti
from what I understand Denver is a zone 5/6 area. so you get temperatures of -25C once in a while, no?
so that pellea would be hardy here in Cluj (we were zone 6 but during the last few years I think we are moving towards zone 7)
your pyrrhosia is looking great too.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on December 29, 2011, 09:30:52 AM
kelaidis
I'm very curious picture of your ferns. Please show it to us
I love the North American ferns. Some can grow in Poland where is zone 6. Unfortunately, some species such as Dryopteris fragrans, Polystichum scopulinum or Pellaea glabella  I can not get anywhere for years.

I love woodsia species. In my country growing two species, Woodsia ilvensis and Woodsia alpina.

Woodsia ilvensis in my garden

(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af286/peter_rabbit/wilwensis3.jpg)

My very young ferns

(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af286/peter_rabbit/gs.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 30, 2011, 06:49:24 AM
My five cents.  :)

Ophioglossum vulgatum at Caucasus
(http://cs1935.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/22340033/x_3aac4ed0.jpg)

Cheilanthes argentea seedlings
(http://cs9740.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/14408998/x_8167a05d.jpg)

Adiantum pedatum
(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_fa0be075.jpg)

Polystichum tripteron
(http://cs4942.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/y_8a2e7180.jpg)

Walking fern
(http://cs4145.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/93407084/x_197d7f02.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 30, 2011, 07:56:26 AM
Olga, do you grow some of these ferns in your garden? The walking fern, is it Asplenium rhizophyllum or ruprechtii?
Btw if anybody has spores or pieces of any of those I am interested in swapping  or buying!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on December 30, 2011, 09:34:16 AM
Olga, do you grow some of these ferns in your garden?
If you are interested in hardiness I have the info that the tripteron survives well since ten years here in mid-Sweden (Örebro). A surprice since it originally came from just north of Kyoto. I have never looked for spores but I will if you ask me.
Göte
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 30, 2011, 11:45:24 AM
Olga, do you grow some of these ferns in your garden?
Yes.  :) Only Ophioglossum is shoot in the nature. Others are mine. And it's only the 1/10 of my ferns. I like them very much.
Quote
The walking fern, is it Asplenium rhizophyllum or ruprechtii?
It's Asplenium rhizophyllum from Far East.
Quote
Btw if anybody has spores or pieces of any of those I am interested in swapping  or buying!
I gather spores sometimes. You know why I don't send them.  :-\
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 30, 2011, 11:53:14 AM
Dryopteris fragrans
(http://cs4461.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/31156622/x_f62e972a.jpg)

Dennstaedtia wilfordii
(http://cs4461.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/31156622/x_e55cc3f1.jpg)

Asplenium woronowii (?) from mt. Fist, N. Caucasus
(http://cs4461.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/31156622/x_7dcd2598.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on December 30, 2011, 12:03:33 PM
Olga, your images are as beautiful as ever (and I am certain your spores will be very eagerly requested).   :D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: razvan chisu on December 30, 2011, 01:55:15 PM
Olga, your images are as beautiful as ever (and I am certain your spores will be very eagerly requested).   :D

:D :D :D Indeed!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 30, 2011, 02:22:21 PM
Olga, do you grow some of these ferns in your garden?
If you are interested in hardiness I have the info that the tripteron survives well since ten years here in mid-Sweden (Örebro). A surprice since it originally came from just north of Kyoto. I have never looked for spores but I will if you ask me.
Göte
Yes, I do ask you, Göte, will you look for spores ;)


I gather spores sometimes. You know why I don't send them.  :-\


Well, I am not sure but probably because i haven't asked and you do not have my address!?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 30, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
I can't compete with Olga's pictures but here are two from today, sorry for the bad quality but even with a cloudless sky the light level is bad:

I am not sure what this one is. It is evergreen and has an underground creeping rhizome.

[attachthumb=1]



Although Adiantum capillus-veneris(?) is evergreen the fronds are lying on the ground now due to the heavy rain the last weeks.

[attachthumb=2]
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on December 30, 2011, 02:53:36 PM
Olga,
I have just been looking at this topic again and your image of Polystichum tripteron is outstanding.  Have we already enquired which camera and lens you use?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: johnw on December 30, 2011, 03:44:39 PM
Is Adiantum reniforme at all hardy?  It has a most bizarre range and I wonder if the Chinese form is grown outdoors by anyone.  I first saw it pictured in a Chinese book.

Quite delicious : http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Adiantum+reniforme&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1907&bih=996&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=3UnjiKPUd9brwM:&imgrefurl=http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id111472/%3Ftaxonid%3D337381&docid=1fihgnezIisg4M&imgurl=http://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/111472.jpg&w=640&h=480&ei=KNz9Tr_NJoPg0QGc_5XJAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1358&vpy=288&dur=3309&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=168&ty=103&sig=108555958299811865620&page=1&tbnh=123&tbnw=163&start=0&ndsp=63&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0 (http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Adiantum+reniforme&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1907&bih=996&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=3UnjiKPUd9brwM:&imgrefurl=http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id111472/%3Ftaxonid%3D337381&docid=1fihgnezIisg4M&imgurl=http://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/111472.jpg&w=640&h=480&ei=KNz9Tr_NJoPg0QGc_5XJAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1358&vpy=288&dur=3309&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=168&ty=103&sig=108555958299811865620&page=1&tbnh=123&tbnw=163&start=0&ndsp=63&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0)

johnw
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 30, 2011, 04:04:03 PM
Thank you all!  8)
Well, I am not sure but probably because i haven't asked and you do not have my address!?
Trond, I am afraid we are not allowed to send/receive seeds, spores or plants from/to here.  :-\ I send seeds occasionally when go abroad. It happens not as often as I want.
I have just been looking at this topic again and your image of Polystichum tripteron is outstanding.  Have we already enquired which camera and lens you use?
Thank you Cliff. Yes. Many times.  :)
I use Canon 40D with 4 glasses:
100/2.8 macro
50/1.4 for portraits (and it's my favorite lens at all)
10-22/4.5 for landscapes
70-200/4 for animals

As for Polystichum tripteron it's very attractive only leaves unrolling moment. After it become usual fern. I've never even photographed it.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 30, 2011, 04:06:41 PM
I am not sure what this one is. It is evergreen and has an underground creeping rhizome.
Blechnum penna-marina?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on December 30, 2011, 04:58:14 PM
I think so too.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hans A. on December 30, 2011, 05:24:21 PM
Olga and Zen, your pictures are fantastic! :o

Here a picture of Ceterach officinarum together with Polypodium cambricum in the local mountains taken last weekend.

Although Adiantum capillus-veneris(?) is evergreen the fronds are lying on the ground now due to the heavy rain the last weeks.

Adiantum capillus -veneris should not be hardy where you live, yours is Adiantum venustum, a great and easy fern to grow. ;)


Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: johnw on December 30, 2011, 06:10:34 PM
I am not sure what this one is. It is evergreen and has an underground creeping rhizome.
Blechnum penna-marina?

To me it looks a little too loose and not hard enough for penna-marina which, by the way, is not terribly hardy here. It does live in the southernmost part of Nova Scotia.

Polypodium virginianum is a neat little native rock fern that grows even on boulders here.

johnw
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 30, 2011, 06:25:11 PM
I am not sure what this one is. It is evergreen and has an underground creeping rhizome.
Blechnum penna-marina?

To me it looks a little too loose and not hard enough for penna-marina which, by the way, is not terribly hardy here. It does live in the southernmost part of Nova Scotia.

Polypodium virginianum is a neat little native rock fern that grows even on boulders here.

johnw

Thanks everybody.
It is growing in shade and the fronds is quite hard. Actually I had thought of B. penna-marina myself.

Olga and Zen, your pictures are fantastic! :o

Here a picture of Ceterach officinarum together with Polypodium cambricum in the local mountains taken last weekend.

Although Adiantum capillus-veneris(?) is evergreen the fronds are lying on the ground now due to the heavy rain the last weeks.

Adiantum capillus -veneris should not be hardy where you live, yours is Adiantum venustum, a great and easy fern to grow. ;)


Hans, you probably are right ;)

Thank you all!  8)
Well, I am not sure but probably because i haven't asked and you do not have my address!?
Trond, I am afraid we are not allowed to send/receive seeds, spores or plants from/to here.  :-\ I send seeds occasionally when go abroad. It happens not as often as I want.

OK, Olga, what a pity! I wasn't aware of that.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 30, 2011, 06:45:06 PM
yours is Adiantum venustum, a great and easy fern to grow. ;)
Yes! I grow it for some years and it runs between rocks quickly.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: kelaidis on December 30, 2011, 09:00:12 PM
What a great series of pictures! Razvan: we are very cold here, often with temps below -20C. We have just had a month of snow cover, but it is now melting and the garden looks good coming out of the snow!

The Adiantum venustum is excellent for us as well. There is A. capillus veneris in Colorado (and further north) but always near warm water (hot springs and suchlike).

Wish we had as many ferns as I see on my trips to Europe: we have nearly 70 species in Colorado, but most are very local or rare.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on December 30, 2011, 09:17:45 PM
Olga, do you grow some of these ferns in your garden?
If you are interested in hardiness I have the info that the tripteron survives well since ten years here in mid-Sweden (Örebro). A surprice since it originally came from just north of Kyoto. I have never looked for spores but I will if you ask me.
Göte
Yes, I do ask you, Göte, will you look for spores ;)


I gather spores sometimes. You know why I don't send them.  :-\


Well, I am not sure but probably because i haven't asked and you do not have my address!?

I will but pls remind me in June
Göte
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Rick R. on December 31, 2011, 04:06:23 AM

Adiantum venustum is hardy here in Minnesota (USA), zone 4a, too. 
Even with unreliable snow cover.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 31, 2011, 08:12:00 AM
OK, I've solved it!
I once grew Adiantum capillus-veneris for several years but it succumbed to death in a cold winter. Later I got another looking similar from a friend but it has withstood the bad winter last year - but it has to be A. venustum  ;)

This winter so far has been so mild that I could have grown oranges in the garden :o
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 31, 2011, 09:02:29 AM
Two ferns from last summer - and not in my garden! However, I wouldn't mind growing them but I doubt that they would survive for long!

The first is unknown (suggestions?) and is from the foot of the mountain and the other ( Blechnum schomburgkii) stood in the lee of the highest peak almost forming a forest!

Edit: from Venezuela, Roraima tepuy.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 31, 2011, 09:28:12 AM
Trond first I wondered what strange ferns grow in Norway. Now I understand images are from South America aren't they?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on December 31, 2011, 09:33:10 AM
Adiantum venustum
(http://cs5652.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_e527e599.jpg)

(http://cs5652.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_cd7b9ad9.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on December 31, 2011, 09:38:14 AM
Trond first I wondered what strange ferns grow in Norway. Now I understand images are from South America aren't they?
Oh sorry,I forgot to write where from! Yes, it is Venezuela.

Olga, your pictures of Adianthum venustum are much better than mine ;)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Tim Ingram on December 31, 2011, 09:58:05 AM
Trond - that second picture looks like a botanical wonderland! Are there any books on the flowers of Roraima? Your earlier images were really exciting too.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 01, 2012, 03:48:40 PM
Trond - that second picture looks like a botanical wonderland! Are there any books on the flowers of Roraima? Your earlier images were really exciting too.
Tim, I have looked for books but not found any. I know there are several floras of Venezuela but I have never seen any for Roraima or the other tepuys. Should be!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 02, 2012, 07:13:41 AM
Trond
I wouldn't wonder if fauna of Roraima included dinosaurs...  ;)

Here are some more ferns. Pictures of previous years.

Onoclea sensibilis isn't alpine of course. Very suitable for pond banks.
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_653068ee.jpg)

Onoclea sensibilis Dwarf.
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_fe3f4b8f.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2012, 07:39:12 AM
Trond
I wouldn't wonder if fauna of Roraima included dinosaurs...  ;)

Here are some more ferns. Pictures of previous years.

Onoclea sensibilis isn't alpine of course. Very suitable for pond banks.

Olga, I did look for dinosaurs and spotted some small and a few larger with feathers. Nowadays they are called birds. . . . .

Onoclea is a nice fern which I grow in my woodland.

Here are another one, badly grazed but one whole leaf: Polystichum lonchitis, common in the mountains here.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 02, 2012, 08:10:47 AM
Polystichum lonchitis, common in the mountains here.
Yes it's very slow growing. Only a few new leaves per year.
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_b017e2dd.jpg)
Mine is from North Caucasus.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 02, 2012, 08:15:34 AM
How many fern species are there at this image?  8)

(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_f96b6fbd.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: razvan chisu on January 02, 2012, 08:52:21 AM

[/quote]
Trond, I am afraid we are not allowed to send/receive seeds, spores or plants from/to here.  :-\ I send seeds occasionally when go abroad. It happens not as often as I want.
[/quote]

then how come you have soooo many interesting plants? is the internal russian plant market so developed?
do they still check every foreign envelope like in comunist times?

i remember before romania joined the EU, i would often send seeds in plain envelopes with just a few small seed packets so they would go unnoticed (back then for packets sent out of the country, one had to go through customs, which aside from regulations had a fixed tax indiferent of parcel size, which was considerable).
that's how i contributed to the NZAGS seed exchange too. small envelopes which i hoped would not go through NZ customs.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: razvan chisu on January 02, 2012, 09:01:08 AM
Trond - that second picture looks like a botanical wonderland! Are there any books on the flowers of Roraima? Your earlier images were really exciting too.

there must be several books on the subject (http://books.google.ro/books?id=a1RgAAAAMAAJ&q=roraima+flora&dq=roraima+flora&hl=en&sa=X&ei=53EBT72CEs2KswbCxqg9&redir_esc=y)
but i remember reading quite a few years ago a National Geographic article on the subject. i was hooked. it is indeed a botanical wonderland with lots and lots of endemics.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2012, 09:09:30 AM
How many fern species are there at this image?  8)

I would say 6 or 7. It is difficult to see those out of focus!

In front it seems to be D. filix-mas, behind the stone it seems to be two (a Gymnocarpium to the left and Onoclea to the right), further behind it is Adianthum and Matteuccia, and in the background to the right it is something that looks like a fern or a Maianthemum.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 02, 2012, 10:13:15 AM
I would say 6 or 7. It is difficult to see those out of focus!

In front it seems to be D. filix-mas, behind the stone it seems to be two (a Gymnocarpium to the left and Onoclea to the right), further behind it is Adianthum and Matteuccia, and in the background to the right it is something that looks like a fern or a Maianthemum.
Sorry I was too cruel showing such focused image!
Only 4: D. filix-mas, Gymnocarpium,  Adianthum and Matteuccia.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 02, 2012, 10:16:45 AM
The same Adianthum and Matteuccia in spring with Erythronium White Beauty.
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_46dfa2f9.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 02, 2012, 10:21:36 AM
then how come you have soooo many interesting plants?
My hands are very long.  :D
Quote
is the internal russian plant market so developed?
No. It is very poor.
Quote
do they still check every foreign envelope like in comunist times?
Not every but if they want they are allowed.  :-\
Our plant import regulations are similar to NZ. As though we live at the island. Only big companies can get permitions.

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2012, 12:33:36 PM
I would say 6 or 7. It is difficult to see those out of focus!

In front it seems to be D. filix-mas, behind the stone it seems to be two (a Gymnocarpium to the left and Onoclea to the right), further behind it is Adianthum and Matteuccia, and in the background to the right it is something that looks like a fern or a Maianthemum.
Sorry I was too cruel showing such focused image!
Only 4: D. filix-mas, Gymnocarpium,  Adianthum and Matteuccia.
OK, you fooled me ;)  I was sure the light and dark green behind the rock were two different ferns!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2012, 12:49:10 PM
Trond - that second picture looks like a botanical wonderland! Are there any books on the flowers of Roraima? Your earlier images were really exciting too.

there must be several books on the subject
but i remember reading quite a few years ago a National Geographic article on the subject. i was hooked. it is indeed a botanical wonderland with lots and lots of endemics.
It is certainly some books covering travelling and flora and fauna but no book solely dealing with plants as I know of.

Although it was enough of rocks, rocky outcroppings and vertical cliffs it was relatively few ferns. But the focus was not specifically on ferns!

I did notice a clubmoss though at the foot of the tepui and the undergrowth in the rain forest held many huge fern species, some several meters tall.

[attachthumb=1]  [attachthumb=2]   [attachthumb=3]


In deep shade where I expected to find ferns flowering plants dominated like these bladderworts Utricularia campbelliana, U. quelchii and gesneriads (unknown species).

[attachthumb=5]   [attachthumb=6]   [attachthumb=4]
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2012, 12:59:47 PM
When I think of it some of the bigger trunks in the rainforest were covered by moss and small, creeping ferns but it was to dark to take pictures.
However further up with more light the ferns almost disappeared except in caves and under rocky outcroppings.
Sorry for the out-of-focus picture but the lightlevel was very low in the cave! Outside you can see leaves of a fern behind the Brocchinia tatei.

[attachthumb=1]   [attachthumb=2]   [attachthumb=3]


Some more ferns can be seen behind what I focused on! (Conneliia augustae and a gesneriad). Some ferns also covered the ground below the shelf we had our tents.

[attachthumb=4]   [attachthumb=5]   [attachthumb=6]
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Roma on January 02, 2012, 05:42:13 PM
A fascinating place, Hoy.  I remember a TV programme a few years ago where a team of ?scientists and climbers explored a similar area.   Maybe it was one of The Lost Land of....... series.  As is usual with a lot of these programmes most of the time is spent showing people getting there and not much on what they find.  It's very frustrating catching a glimpse of a plant and not being shown it properly.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 03, 2012, 07:47:00 AM
Trond, incredible place. Lost world.

Back to hardy ferns.
Polypodium ussuriense.
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_4e57ceb2.jpg)

Polypodium vulgare Bifidomultifidum.
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_3a9ee3be.jpg)

Adiantum pedatum, Asplenium trichomanes, Carex testacea.
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_009a1a97.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: zen on January 03, 2012, 02:46:29 PM
Olga Your photos are beautiful. Epiphytic fern Polypodium ussuriense  is very interesting. I did not know this fern before. Is it growing in your garden?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 04, 2012, 07:16:23 AM
Olga Your photos are beautiful. Epiphytic fern Polypodium ussuriense  is very interesting. I did not know this fern before. Is it growing in your garden?
Thank you Zenon!
It had being growing for 3-4 years in my garden slowly dieing. It's a very specific fern needing air moisture.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 04, 2012, 07:17:43 AM
Osmunda claytoniana

(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_01524c0f.jpg)

(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_b5ce641b.jpg)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 04, 2012, 12:39:27 PM
Olga Your photos are beautiful. Epiphytic fern Polypodium ussuriense  is very interesting. I did not know this fern before. Is it growing in your garden?
Thank you Zenon!
It had being growing for 3-4 years in my garden slowly dieing. It's a very specific fern needing air moisture.
Something for my garden then!

I grow two different Osmunda but not claytonia. Seems to be worth to try ;)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 04, 2012, 01:47:56 PM
Something for my garden then!
Yes! Good idea to try it at humid moss on stones.
Quote
I grow two different Osmunda but not claytonia. Seems to be worth to try ;)
It's spores shouldn't be dried and need to be sown immediately.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 04, 2012, 01:55:44 PM
Thelipteris phegopteris
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_da2dffcd.jpg)

Athyrium filix-femina Victoriae
(http://cs4184.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/149825123/y_84c29c16.jpg)
Strange thing this fern has being grown for some years in my garden. I like it very much for grace. But I've never can't shoot whole plant.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on January 04, 2012, 02:37:01 PM
I know what you mean, Olga, from a distance it just seems to disappear!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Tim Ingram on January 04, 2012, 04:12:32 PM
Ferns are so beautifully photogenic and this thread really seems to have taken off - there must be a lot of 'pteridophiles'! Our garden is often very dry in summer and at first I thought ferns would not grow well. However, I have tried more and more over the years and find that many are very tolerant. My favourites must be the polystichums which look good almost the whole year round; I am also trying more dryopteris and am especially keen on rock ferns for the sand bed and screes. The lovely 'Lady Fern' does less well, but some forms of this are amongst the most beautiful of all (I have one called 'Axminster'). Unfortunately all my photos are slides so I must take digital images this year. I particularly like Zen's photos in natural settings and Olga's super portraits.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 05, 2012, 04:40:35 PM
Thelipteris phegopteris

Athyrium filix-femina Victoriae
Strange thing this fern has being grown for some years in my garden. I like it very much for grace. But I've never can't shoot whole plant.

Ah, for some I know!

I think you have made a very good attempt to catch it, Olga ;)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 05, 2012, 04:48:24 PM
Not epilithic but  epiphytic growing ferns and neither hardy but interesting in the rainforest of Kilimanjaro. Not the best pictures either as my camera didn't like the humid air.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Sarmienta on January 05, 2012, 06:09:02 PM
i like those habitat pictures  ;)
I also have some ferns in my garden and one of them looks a lot like those at the kilimanjaro.
Pyrrosia lingua from Japan/China is hardy -20 C usda zone 7-6 .and it survived some winters in my garden,but it grow a lot better in a unheated greenhouse.
I have problems with sending pictures,i think they are too big. :'(
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 05, 2012, 06:21:56 PM
i like those habitat pictures  ;)
I also have some ferns in my garden and one of them looks a lot like those at the kilimanjaro.
Pyrrosia lingua from Japan/China is hardy -20 C usda zone 7-6 .and it survived some winters in my garden,but it grow a lot better in a unheated greenhouse.
I have problems with sending pictures,i think they are too big. :'(

Resizing pictures, try this site: http://www.efpage.de/eTinypic.html

Got it from bulborum but I haven't tried it yet as I have a Mac.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on January 05, 2012, 07:50:23 PM
Thank you Cliff! I tried to tell Sarmienta what to do but I have a program (Color sync) that works fine although it takes some more keyboard work :-)
Maybe I'll try your recommendation!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: peter hood on January 05, 2012, 09:03:26 PM
The Adiantum venustum is excellent for us as well. There is A. capillus veneris in Colorado (and further north) but always near warm water (hot springs and suchlike).

 

I thought it was time I added something to the conversation, as another person for whom ferns was a first love, both in the wild and the garden. I don't grow many at the moment - but I will doso again sometime!

I noted this comment with interest; I have never seen A. Capillus veneris in the wild in Britain - there are various sea side locations - but the picture  is of what I think is this species, growing between the paving slabs alongside the Roman Bath in Bath - hot springs and the like.

Where I have seen this plant in the wild is at the base of Limestone cliffs in deep gorges, Gorge de Tarn (France) and Cares Gorge (Spain) 
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maggi Young on January 05, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Hello Peter, a warm welcome... and happy new year to you!

I was just thinking that hot springs are not exactly plentiful in these islands when I read the location of your photo... how very appropriate!


When one sees ferns making a home in some very odd and supposedly inhospitable places, it does give the lie to their delicate and often ethereal appearance, doesn't it ?
Fascinating plants... though I could wish my ability to distinguish them was better.  :-[ :-\
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ruweiss on January 07, 2012, 07:58:02 PM
Yesterday in our meadow garden
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ruweiss on January 07, 2012, 08:07:40 PM
....and some more from the garden at our house:
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 08, 2012, 05:00:46 AM
Rudi, some beautiful ferns shown.  Many of your images are generically named and do not indicate what fern genera/species they are; can you let us know which ones they are so that we can seek out these beauties.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: kindredspiritkevin on January 08, 2012, 04:00:38 PM
Brilliant fern display.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ruweiss on January 09, 2012, 09:38:15 PM
Rudi, some beautiful ferns shown.  Many of your images are generically named and do not indicate what fern genera/species they are; can you let us know which ones they are so that we can seek out these beauties.

Mark, thanks for your question, 023 is Asplenium trichomanes, 001 and 022 are forms of Phyllitis scolopendrium.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on May 08, 2012, 08:39:58 PM
Any comments on this sporeling I found?  Asplenium septentrionale certainly is one of the parents and the other maybe is A. trichomanes. Both grow near by. However, the cross isn't supposed to look like this!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on May 09, 2012, 10:21:28 AM
Hello Hoy, it is an exciting find! It does look like the pictures of septentrionale x trichomanes in The Ferns of Britain and Ireland by C.N. Page.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on May 09, 2012, 10:31:24 AM
It certainly looks like the hybrid. It is uncommon since the parents do not often grow in the same place presumably because of different pH requirements. Where they do it is not too rare
Göte 
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on May 11, 2012, 10:48:51 PM
Thanks both!

Anne, I don't have that book but searching the Net gave some similar looking examples. However the drawings in Norwegian floras are different.

Göte, I have never seen it before although both parents are very common where I spend much time in summer. (But I am not down on my knees all the time ;))
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on May 16, 2012, 07:36:20 AM
There used to be (I have not been there since the sixties) a site near Trosa where the hybrid was surprisingly frequent. I have not seen it anywhere else but septentrionale is rare in my area. Someone told me about a find of ruta-muraria near here. I could not find it and confirm but since ruta-muraria is too tender to grow naturally here I suspect that this also was the hybrid.
Göte
 
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on May 19, 2012, 04:33:02 AM
I enjoy rock ferns because they break the fern stereotype - how can these ferns grow in such hot, dry habitats? We have a great place on the edge of town to see many rock ferns in their natural habitats.  By climbing up to the top of this rocky butte, not only does one enjoy a great view, but there are great clumps of the lace fern, Cheilanthes gracillima, to enjoy.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on May 19, 2012, 04:43:08 AM
Mixed in with the Cheilanthes are several other genera that belong to the Pteridaceae family, which hosts the greatest concentration of rock ferns.  Aspidotis is a small genus with only 3 species in western North America; A. densa has a common name of "Indian's dream", though I have no idea where this name came from. Pentagramma is also a small group of western NA species that were formerly included in Pityrogramma, they are known as goldback ferns due to the gold-colored waxy coating on the underside of the fronds.  Cryptogramma acrostichoides is related (though not closely) to European C. crispa, it is much more drought tolerant and has evergreen sterile fronds.  All of these are cold hardy and also drought tolerant, by late summer the fronds will be curled up due to summer drought.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on May 19, 2012, 04:50:22 AM
Mixed in with the rock ferns already mentioned is the western version of the widespread species Cystopteris fragilis; it emerges in early spring but releases spores and goes dormant by early summer, this is its way of escaping drought.  Note that there are three other species of rock ferns growing with Cystopteris in this photo! Woodsia scopulina also grows here but I was not able to find it on this visit; it is not common at this site and is actually most easily seen later in summer after the similar-looking Cystopteris fragilis goes dormant. Polypodium glycyrriza in a west coast representative of the Polypodium vulgare complex; it is a winter-green species that emerges in the fall, releases spores in winter, and then goes dormant in the spring as summer drought approaches.  It is not at its best in May!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on May 19, 2012, 04:59:51 AM
A couple of larger ferns can be found here that are also very drought tolerant.  Polystichum imbricans is a once-pinnate species that is basically a xerophytic form of Polystichum munitum, a common forest species.  Its venetian-blind like pinnae are very dramatic. Dryopteris arguta is an evergreen species of rocky dry shade, here growing under a clump of stunted oaks.  Its closes relative is the eastern North American species Dryopteris marginalis. Finally, a "fern ally", Selaginella wallacei, grows on moss mats on rocks, related to Lycopodium, these "spike-mosses" are now considered to be only very distant relatives of ferns, but they are still spore-bearing vascular plants. 
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 20, 2012, 07:05:09 AM
Ed, thank you very much for beautiful images of rare species!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on May 20, 2012, 12:16:51 PM
Fantastic to see tese in the wild, Ed, many thanks. Polystichum imbricans - gorgeous!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on May 22, 2012, 09:55:26 PM
Ed, very interesting! Any chance that you collect spores?

This one, Athyrium othophorum 'Okanum', is now unfurling its fronds in my garden - can't say it is xerophytic though ;)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Tim Ingram on May 22, 2012, 10:26:38 PM
Ed - wonderful to see all those xeric ferns in habitat! Like Trond I think I shall be looking out for spores of more of these species; they are undeniably fascinating.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on May 25, 2012, 02:50:14 AM
Like Trond I think I shall be looking out for spores of more of these species; they are undeniably fascinating.
I'll see what I can do!

Ed
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: wolfgang vorig on June 17, 2012, 03:07:27 PM
Ophioglossum Vulgatum (Natterzune)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on June 18, 2012, 04:07:31 PM
I am amazed Wolfgang.
Do you grow it or did it come by itself?
is it dificult?
Göte
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: wolfgang vorig on June 19, 2012, 06:12:32 PM
Hello Göte,
Ophioglossum vulgre is with us a rare fern.
He has increased for me without problems. Something slightly shady and moist.
kind regards, Wolfgang
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on July 02, 2012, 11:36:32 AM
Hello Wolfgang,
It is very rare here too. I have only seen it once and nobody seems to grow it. You are pioneering I think.
Göte
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ulla Hansson on July 02, 2012, 12:49:09 PM
Hello Göte
I have a small tuft of Ophioglossum vulgare. I've had it for quite some time. Do not remember for certain where it came from, I think I got it from another garden amateur. It grows quite abundantly in the moist limestone region, east of Falköping. There are also many different orchids. The area is protected.
Ulla
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: gote on July 16, 2012, 08:25:22 AM
Ah! So now we have at least two growers. That is very nice.
Is anybody growing botrychium?
One came up in a gravel area in our garden many years ago and a visitor promply bent down, pulled it up and asked "what is this"?  >:( >:( >:( >:(
I have never seen one here since.
On another occasion a woman stepped straight into some low rare woodlanders and when I expressed some concern she said "It is no problem I have sturdy shoes" >:( >:(
I am very picky about guests nowadays.
My children or grandchildren have never damaged anything in the garden. They seem to have more good sense than grown-ups. :) :)
Göte
.
 
 
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on July 16, 2012, 10:28:27 AM
Hi Gote,
We have seen some beautiful examples of Botrychium lunaria in the Dolomites within the last fortnight and I agree that it would be an interesting introduction into any garden.  I will post some pic's when time allows.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on July 22, 2012, 10:13:23 PM
Botrychium lunaria
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: shelagh on July 23, 2012, 05:31:52 PM
Looks as though the spores could be ready Cliff did any fall in a seed envelope? :D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on July 23, 2012, 05:38:40 PM
Looks as though the spores could be ready Cliff did any fall in a seed envelope? :D

 :D :P
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: shelagh on July 25, 2012, 09:43:51 AM
Great, looking forward to rifling your pockets on your return ::)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on July 25, 2012, 11:38:15 AM
Great, looking forward to rifling your pockets on your return ::)

Shelagh!!! Behave ... Brian's watching!!   ;D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on July 27, 2012, 04:50:09 PM
Botrychium lunaria is very common here. But here is another, Botrychium boreale. I've only seen few of this this year and no B. lanceolatum. I don't grow them but they occur naturally in the meadow.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on July 27, 2012, 06:04:16 PM
And some other ferns: Woodsia ilvensis, Asplenium viride, Polystichum lonchitis and an unknown (any suggestions?):


[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3][attachimg=4]
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: christian pfalz on July 27, 2012, 10:41:05 PM
hi hoy,
the last one looks like an asplenium....
cheers
chris
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on July 27, 2012, 10:44:44 PM
Thanks for your suggestion, Christian. However the botanists say it is a form of Cystopteris fragilis.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: christian pfalz on July 27, 2012, 10:51:29 PM
hi hoy,
or Cystopteris fragilis it is not so easy to ident per photo...
sorry
cheers
chris
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on July 27, 2012, 10:59:12 PM
hi hoy,
or Cystopteris fragilis it is not so easy to ident per photo...
sorry
cheers
chris

I know! It isn't always easy in situ either! I thought I knew that fern!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Tim Ingram on July 31, 2012, 07:56:50 AM
A beautiful little fern for the shady rock garden - Adiantum aleuticum 'Subpumilum'. This is growing at the base and north side of a sleeper bed. It came from Rachel Lever's superb range of ferns grown at Aberconwy.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on July 31, 2012, 04:19:35 PM
Tim, that's an eye-catcher, at least for me!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on August 04, 2012, 05:25:25 AM
A beautiful little fern for the shady rock garden - Adiantum aleuticum 'Subpumilum'.

This fern can now "legally" be called Adiantum aleuticum var. subpumilum (originally it was described as a variety of Adiantum pedatum), since this form occurs as a series of natural populations on the outer coast of Vancouver Island. See: http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1640/0002-8444-100.4.230 (http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1640/0002-8444-100.4.230)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maggi Young on August 04, 2012, 11:49:22 AM
Thanks for that note, Ed.

Folks, I hope that  members have received their latest Journal by now (or soon will do!)  and are enjoying Ed Alverson's article there : "Camassias, a North American Treasure"?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on August 04, 2012, 08:27:54 PM
Oh yes, of course ;)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on August 08, 2012, 12:40:46 AM

Folks, I hope that  members have received their latest Journal by now

I also enjoyed the description of the upcoming discussion weekend in Lallands Scots on p. 2 this issue - a good reminder that we are part of a community that speaks many languages! I was surprised that I could follow it ok, since I find Middle English hard to understand, though it might be more challenging if I was hearing Scots spoken. Though I am wondering what "ondeemous fechan tert" means...

Ed
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maggi Young on August 08, 2012, 12:55:18 AM
I am no expert in Lallans, Ed, but I think I have the nub of this phrase for you :  the "ondeemous fechan tert" is a truly enormous  baked concoction... the local delicacy from the south east  of Scotland known as an Ecclefechan tart  ( Ecclefechan being a place) - shortened to 'fechan tert'-  it is quite delicious!


 An afterthought:  Middle English is a dead language, Ed, while Lallans is still spoken... perhaps that makes the difference in your understanding  :-\
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on August 08, 2012, 02:00:05 PM
Our local garden centre has Ecclefechan Tart as a regular in their tea shop. It looks like a heart attack in a pastry case. But delicious...
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ranunculus on August 08, 2012, 02:16:15 PM
It looks like a heart attack in a pastry case.

That sounds like a perfect description for the Bookeroo, Anne!  LOL.  (Although Mr Nicholson would obviously prefer 'nut' to 'pastry').
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maggi Young on August 08, 2012, 04:05:30 PM
Our local garden centre has Ecclefechan Tart as a regular in their tea shop. It looks like a heart attack in a pastry case. But delicious...

 A lot of Scottish food answers that description, Anne    ::)  :D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: David Nicholson on August 08, 2012, 05:34:08 PM
That sounds like a perfect description for the Bookeroo, Anne!  LOL.  (Although Mr Nicholson would obviously prefer 'nut' to 'pastry').

Yup!   ;D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Catwheazle on June 01, 2013, 03:45:38 PM
[attachimg=1]  [attachimg=2]
rainlovers ......  ;D

Phyllitis scolopedrium ist starting to grow...... and together with Dryopteris filix-mas (?)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Catwheazle on June 07, 2013, 04:58:43 PM
Hello again
has anyone experience with continentale Gymnocarpium?
I guess I just have anywhere calcareous soil, no or little humus. For this reason the
selection to ferns is restricted.
I'm looking for something larger ferns around the stone wall to plant.

Greetings
Bernd
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on June 10, 2013, 03:24:45 PM
Bernd,
Gymnocarpium robertianum would be one for alkaline soils.
Here:
Cystopteris dickeana
Cystopteris fragilis
Gymnocarpium dryopteris
Stegnogramma pozoi
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Catwheazle on June 10, 2013, 03:44:17 PM
Oh, they look very good. Thanks for the info!  ;D
Gymnocarpium continentale I could get the other day. Let's see if he likes it.
G. robertianum I've bookmarked me. - The wall is great;-)

Greetings
Bernd
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on July 30, 2013, 03:19:02 PM
Asplenium ceterach
Cryptogramma crispa
Gymnocarpium oyamense
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on July 30, 2013, 04:56:09 PM
Here is one for cold climate: Cystopteris fragilis var dickieana from Svalbard.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Catwheazle on July 30, 2013, 06:24:43 PM
fine :-)
nice plants  :o
thats fo me :-)

Bernd
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on July 31, 2013, 12:45:56 PM
Three difficult ones to grow, Giles - well done!
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on August 01, 2013, 08:48:46 PM
Anne,
Thankyou. Alot of the rustybacks fell by the wayside...
The Cryptogramma was a division of a cultivated plant given to me when I was in Perthshire last month, and is much treasured.
Saw many special ferns: Botrychium lunaria; Polystichum lonchitis; amongst others.

Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on August 26, 2013, 06:59:23 PM
On a Welsh Castle:
Asplenium trichomanes subsp. pachyrachis
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on August 26, 2013, 07:00:58 PM
..and on another
Asplenium trichomanes subsp. pachyrachis var. trogyense
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: David Nicholson on August 26, 2013, 09:52:50 PM
You're pulling my leg Giles, they all look the same! ;D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on September 21, 2013, 02:43:22 PM
You're pulling my leg Giles, they all look the same! ;D
  .....seen the snowdrop threads recently? ( ;D)

Adiantum aleuticum japonicum
-the individual 'fingers' of the frond are about 9" long
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Brian Ellis on September 21, 2013, 03:31:40 PM
  .....seen the snowdrop threads recently? ( ;D)

Behave yourself ;)
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on September 21, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
Adiantum aleuticum japonicum

It is interesting that such very similar plants can grow naturally in Japan and North America, and speaks to the long history of species migrating from Asia to North America - or vice-versa- over millions of years.

Speaking of Adiantum aleuticum - as a follow-up to an earlier mention of var. subpumilum in this thread in July 2012 - I thought I would post some photos of this dwarf var. growing in the wild. Its natural habitat is very interesting - it only grows on overhanging cliffs right above salt water on the west coast of Vancouver Island, British Columbia. Here are some old photos from when I was shown one of the sites in the 1980's. The ferns can be seen in the middle photo as green spots on the "roof" of the rock alcove on the right side of the photo, to the right of the natural rock arch.

Ed
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: johnw on September 21, 2013, 08:42:07 PM
  .....seen the snowdrop threads recently? ( ;D)

Well Giles, then you know very well the prices do change on Galanthus and so too the labels.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maggi Young on September 21, 2013, 09:05:44 PM
Ed: Quite a surprise to me to see the habitat of the Adiantum on Vancouver Island.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on September 21, 2013, 09:09:56 PM
Ed: Quite a surprise to me to see the habitat of the Adiantum on Vancouver Island.
Yes, they seem so delicate, but in some ways at least they aren't.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Hoy on September 22, 2013, 12:19:11 PM
Ed, what a special landscape! I am living at the western coast of Norway and used to see coastal landscapes but nothing quite like that!
Does the Adianthum need the sea spray or can it grow more sheltered too?
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ruweiss on September 22, 2013, 08:49:37 PM
Some ferns from my garden
Asplenium fontanum
Cheilanthes lanosa
Cheilanthes intertextus
Notholaena marantae
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on September 22, 2013, 11:26:03 PM
Ed, what a special landscape! I am living at the western coast of Norway and used to see coastal landscapes but nothing quite like that!
Does the Adiantum need the sea spray or can it grow more sheltered too?
I don't believe Adiantum aleuticum var. subpumilum requires sea spray - it grows just fine in regular rock gardens - and in fact my theory is that the shortened pinnae of this variety are an evolutionary response to the salt spray. Fronds that stick out away from the cliff are more likely to be burned by the salt spray, and thus plants with shorter pinnae have been selected for in these habitats.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on October 04, 2013, 09:29:11 PM
UK's seaside fern: Asplenium marinum
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on October 04, 2013, 09:31:13 PM
Wellies or speedos: depends if you can read a tidetable.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: David Nicholson on October 05, 2013, 09:45:01 AM
Do I deduce that wasn't taken in Northants Giles ::) :P
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Giles on October 05, 2013, 11:38:19 AM
My new water feature, David  ;D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: David Nicholson on October 05, 2013, 06:37:21 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on October 06, 2013, 02:10:42 AM
UK's seaside fern: Asplenium marinum
The habitat of Asplenium marinum is in many ways similar to Adiantum aleuticum var. subpumilum: overhanging rock alcoves just above the beach. Must be some "fern thing" that allows these plants to survive in such a rugged habitat.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Ed Alverson on October 06, 2013, 02:19:23 AM
Ed, what a special landscape! I am living at the western coast of Norway and used to see coastal landscapes but nothing quite like that!
Does the Adiantum need the sea spray or can it grow more sheltered too?
One difference to keep in mind is the difference in latitude: Vancouver Island is 48 deg. 30 minutes to 51 degrees N latitude (the equivalent of Normandy to Flanders in Europe), but the southernmost point of Norway is 58 degrees north. So naturally the Norway Coast would be a more harsh environment.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: annew on October 07, 2013, 12:54:21 PM
Rudi, Your ferns look fantastic on your rock garden, very natural.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: ruweiss on October 09, 2013, 10:15:58 PM
Thank you, Anne.
Attached are pictures of 2 ferns in their natural environment in the Oetztal/ Tirol.
The other pictures were made nearby and the Pinus cembra seems to sit quite
comfortable on the rock.
The Rhododendron seems to suffer from Exobasidium.
Title: Re: Rock ferns
Post by: Maggi Young on October 09, 2013, 10:40:15 PM
....... and the Pinus cembra seems to sit quite
comfortable on the rock.

A perfect root over rock or Sekijoju in bonsai!
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