Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: Michael on September 15, 2007, 10:34:11 PM
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Greetings
My name Michael and i´m 20 y old. I live at Madeira island. At age of 7, i received a book about hardy garden plants. In that book there was a section regarding bulbous plants. Since that time i always wanted to grow some famous ones, but i never ever had seen a tulip in my life! And i also like Crocus, Galanthus, Dicentra, Fritilaria, Eranthis, Narcissus, Heleborus... But i can´t find those, not even at flower shops. I know that on most parts of Europe they are very common...
It is possible to grow any species/hybrids of these plants in a climate with +8ºc as a minimum winter temperature? I am particularly interested in Fritillaria imperialis and meleagris. Do plants die with such mild winter? ::)
Thanks for any help!
Michael
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Welcome Michael
I do not have any definite suggestions for you but perhaps you should look at the native flora on the nearest mainland, especially coastal wild flowers. This might guide you to plants most likely to succeed. Many of the autumn flowering crocus come from lowland mediterranean areas, while romulea, sometimes called 'sand crocus' would be possibilities. Have you considered South African bulbs? Some of these might be suited and there are some forum members with knowledge of these who could advise.
Good luck in your quest!
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In our flora, there is only one bulbous plant that occurs in my island: Scilla maderensis. I grow that one, but it is not as impressive as the others i mentioned.
Tony, can you give me the name of those autumn-flowering crocus? I would like to have a look on Google!
Southafrican plants are also gorgeous, but they are even harder to find here!
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HEY!!! I like that moving avatar!! I want one too. How do you do that? Can you just upload a short video clip of you , say grinning and winking, or raising a glass to fellow forumers, as your forum photo instead of a still pic? Maggi, tell me how Michael's done that, pleeeeeese!!! It's FUN!!!
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Or has michael just added an effect to his avatar? Whichever, there are possibilities there! Still be interested to know how it's done and what other possibilities there might be.
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Autumn crocus from the med: Cc goulimyi, laevigatus, hadriaticus, longiflorus, tournefortii, boryi .... I could go on ... and on. There are also some from regions with hot dry summers but some of these will also experience cold winters. Mike try looking through my web-site (address at the bottom of each post), it has some information on every known crocus species. You can make your own list there and research the ones that interest you further.
Someone needs to put Martin out of his misery .... He'll never get to sleep with this avatar thing buzzing round :D
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Mike
Nice to see more people from Portugal here. 8) ;D
I am not Portuguese but I have been here in Portugal on and off and my kids are half Portuguese.
If You are OK with growing hybrids there is actually a great deal in the supermarkets right now.
Lidl had nice tulips and narcissus but I think that the Galanthus are most likely small narcissus.
Continente have Fritalia imperialis both rubra and the orange one. They also have tulips iris and crucus.
I have even bought bulbs at Pingo Doce but did not see any now.
Try to find crocsmia I think they grow very well in Portugal so I think that this South African bulb is cheap and easy to obtain.
Now is the time to buy bulbs since they keep the bulbs untill they are so dry that there is no life left in them and then they keep it for some more time without lowering the price.
In Funchal there is amarylis (south african type) in the upper floor of the fish/fruit/flower/plant market Mercado Municipal) 8)
Not all of these are "hardy bulbs" but they do fine in Madeira I think.
Hope You find these plants as well as the more tricky to find.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Crocus serotinus grows in Spain and Portugal - might be possible with you too.
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Michael,
Welcome to the forum! It's good to know someone from Madeira is here (I'm working on Geranium madeirense and its alba form)...
You should find lots of wonderful bulbs to fit your climate. Many will be available through the mails and internet. I understand that trade WITHIN the EU is relatively easy to accomplish.
I am visiting Portugal and Spain in a few weeks for Iberflora (Valencia). I've been to Portugal and the Azores before, but never Madeira. Perhaps you can tell us a little about your native flora and the conditions you face trying to garden on the island. There appear to be many wonderful public/private gardens there that deserve to be better known...
Carlo
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Almost forgot...one that you should try is tiny little Narcissus wilkommii, a native of the Algarve. I'm trying it again for the second time this fall.
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And in the meantime - have some Madeira, m'dear.
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Hello Mike!
Martin it's not real rain but I'm sure you know that anyway
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Hi All
HEY!!! I like that moving avatar!! I want one too. How do you do that? Can you just upload a short video clip of you , say grinning and winking, or raising a glass to fellow forumers, as your forum photo instead of a still pic? Maggi, tell me how Michael's done that, pleeeeeese!!! It's FUN!!!
Martin, if you want i can make an avatar of those for you. Can you give me some photos? I´ll make a slideshow . You just need to tell me the velocity and that's all! Then I´ll send the file for you ;D
Autumn crocus from the med: Cc goulimyi, laevigatus, hadriaticus, longiflorus, tournefortii, boryi .... I could go on ...
Tony, i had googled the names and I like them all. Very nice contrasting pistils they have :o :o! I will have a look on your website very soon, and then i´ll say something ;D
Mike
Nice to see more people from Portugal here. 8) ;D
I am not Portuguese but I have been here in Portugal on and off and my kids are half Portuguese.
If You are OK with growing hybrids there is actually a great deal in the supermarkets right now.
Lidl had nice tulips and narcissus but I think that the Galanthus are most likely small narcissus.
Continente have Fritalia imperialis both rubra and the orange one. They also have tulips iris and crucus.
I have even bought bulbs at Pingo Doce but did not see any now.
Hello Joakim!
I'ts good to know you! Here in Madeira, we don't have Lidl and Continente. But i will have a look at Pingo Doce And hope that i can find some goodies! Regarding the Amarylis and Crocosmia, i grow some, i forgot to mention that earlier, sorry for that. I also have Scadoxus puniceus and Freesia, that's all. I always look for new types of plants at flower shops, but without luck. And what kind of pçants do you like and grow Joakim?
I'm working on Geranium madeirense and its alba form...
You should find lots of wonderful bulbs to fit your climate. Many will be available through the mails and internet. I understand that trade WITHIN the EU is relatively easy to accomplish.
Hello Carlo.
Wow that's very cool! I never saw a G. maderense albino! Do you have any pictures of one?
The reason why i discovered this wonderfull forum, is because i was making a search about Fritillaria species and found a post regarding their cultural problems on the the other ancient forum. And i am going to receive next week 5 little bulbs of F. meleagris (it is my first plant swap, so i hope everything goes fine. If it works, i hope i can swap more, even with people from here!). I barely can't wait untill i receive them! If anyone grows it, i would like to hear from your experience!
I've been to Portugal and the Azores before, but never Madeira. Perhaps you can tell us a little about your native flora and the conditions you face trying to garden on the island. There appear to be many wonderful public/private gardens there that deserve to be better known...
Well Madeira gardens are nice, with loads of plants and many people that come from other countries (especially the northen ones) like our gardens and climate a lot. But of my personal opinion, i find our gardens very monotonous... They are in flower most of the year, and that is the main reason why i say they are monotonous. I prefer the european gardens, where in spring you have loads and loads of flowers, covering the ground and fill everything, then on autumn you have the colours of the leaves (here some deciduous plants also shed theirs, but they dont get as red or yellow and the leaves don´t fall together, which means you have a blend of colours, instead of having a nice homogenic colour.) And on winter you have a silver coat of snow! I love snow! I think we always like and want what we can't have... And i prefer a garden that is constantly changing with the weather than one that is always the same. You get tired of it fast. I hope you understand my opinion...
Almost forgot...one that you should try is tiny little Narcissus wilkommii, a native of the Algarve. I'm trying it again for the second time this fall.
I will ask a friend of mine who lives there, to see if he knows and has that beauty! Thanks! ;D
And in the meantime - have some Madeira, m'dear.
Yes i also agree! ;D
Hello Mike!
Martin it's not real rain but I'm sure you know that anyway
Lol :D
Thanks for the replies and regards to all
M
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Martin it's not real rain but I'm sure you know that anyway
Yes Mark, after my initial excitement I guessed it was just a rain 'effect'. Of course, technically there's no reason why a forum couldn't be designed to have moving avatars, and it'd be way cool! But quite possibly would require a lot of computing and memory resources. For anyone who's seen the Harry Potter films (i.e. anyone who has small kids) it brought to mind those (magical) moving pictures in the newspapers and photo-frames that they have in the films.
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Maggi should add that rain effect to her avatar pic of her in the cagool with her hood up! ;D
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Michael,
Welcome to the forum!!
Martin,
Any gif file should work here as an avatar I think, so if you could create a gif file from the pictures you were mentioning you should be able to create a moving avatar?
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...you could have a crocus opening up as a moving avatar...
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...you could have a crocus opening up as a moving avatar...
That's a nice idea!
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Yes i have made an opening flower to offer to other friend. You just need to find a time-lapse movie and then take some snapshots of the more important moments and then u got your avatar. ;)
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like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTR_mWM7N68 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTR_mWM7N68)
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Mike
Modelo that is a smaller version of Continente exist in Funchal with two places so they maight have the product now since it is a promotion on Continente.
You asked aboutt my favorite plants.
My favorite plants are bulbs I love planting them and buying them :)
Other favorites that go well in Coimbra is irises mostly bearded ones not needing much attention, daylillies needing water and peony that seem to have some problem in the heat.
I also love to grow the things we can not grow in Sweden outside all year like citrus, bouganvilla, camelia and I also started to accept dahlias and gladiolus (bought some in pingo doce in spring) since they do not need to be lifted here in the winter. You see how easy it is to please people with a Winter :)
I have after seeing nice pics of crocus started to look closer on them and they are nice even the hybrids are nice and if they like it they start to hybridize them self 8) ::) :o. Then You will have your own special one.
In Funchal there are some really nice gardens I must say. The one in Monte is also very nice I think and there You have the season with the different kind of plants being in different seasons.
I can understand the little boring things they have with pansys all year and primulas all year in some public gardens but there is some difference in Madeira as well even if it is smaller than in Northen Europe.
I have seen in Portugal that plants that came from Sweden with summers in +25C as a good one they get used to the Portuguse ones where the Autumn are 25 and start to die down as they should so it is not only temperatures that is needed for the plants. I think that lightlevels and differences in temperature also is of some importance.
Good luck in Your plant hunting and now is the best time in the stores.
Take care
Joakim
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Hi Joakim!
Ok i will have a look at Modelo to see what do they have for sale! I just hope to see some interesting things in there :)
When i got news i will tell
See you soon
M
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like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTR_mWM7N68 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTR_mWM7N68)
That's really nice. Better the crocus which opens and closes with warm/cold temps, than the narcissus which just sits there doing nothing.
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Hi Mike,
I know what it's like growing up in a warm climate and reading about plants from cold places!
If the true crocuses don't live up to expectations try some of the "fake" ones, like the rain-lilies which are often called "autumn crocus" here in Australia. Habranthus tubispathus, H. martinezii, Zephyranthes rosea and Z. candida are worthwhile and have the classic crocus shape, although on a stem rather than the long tube. Others with a more starry appearance include Z. atamasco and Z. drummondii. The seeds of some of these are usually available through the Seed exchanges of the AGS, SRGC or NARGS. Otherwise drop me a line in April or May which is when the seed ripen here usually.
cheers
fermi
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Hi Fermi! ;D
Thanks for the offer! I saw their pictures and they'r wonderfull! Do you have any pictures of yours?
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Hi Mike,
I've posted these before but I don't mind posting them again.
Habranthus tubispathus
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Zephyranthes fosteri or possibly Z. rosea
[attachthumb=2]
Z. rosea which may actually be the hybrid Z. "Grandjax"
[attachthumb=3]
Z. "Ajax"
[attachthumb=4]
Habranthus robustus hybrid
[attachthumb=5]
cheers
fermi
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Wowowow :o
You grow all those beauties in warm climate? So that means i can have a little hope then ;D they really look like crocus! Do you have any more pictures?
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Mike, look at the threads on this forum for plants from the Southern Hemisphere, "Down Under2 as we call it.. you'll see lots of plants there which should do well for you. Also, there is the "oldForum" on this site, see here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi This was in use for some years until last November when it was archived and we began this forum. The Old version is still there... you can search it and there is LOTS to see and learn, but no new posts can be made there, only here.
Enjoy!
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Mike, we grow warm climate bulbs in Scotland by keeping them in an unheated greenhouse so that they have a dry dormancy and/or, very occaisionaly, can bringing them into the warm house. In former time when heating fuel was cheap growers had heated greenhouses.
To do the reverse, cold climate bulbs in a hot climate has to be much more difficult. If I could afford the money it would be fairly easy for me to create a Madeiran climate in Scotland - but to create a Scottish climate in Madeira ::) that would be something.
I would have thought that South African bulbs or even Mediteranean basin bulbs like crocus should be an option if you give them dry dormancy. You have the heat and can engineer the dryness under glass.
Enjoy playing with your bulbs and learn, it is great fun
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David, that first pic in Fermi's last batch will give you a good idea of what to expect from the Habranthus tubispathus (syn. Zephranthes) you raised as a Romulea. But I have to admit mine doesn't grow in a compact clump like that but I get odd flowers here and there rather than in a bunch. Maybe it needs not to be disturbed for a few years. These are all prolific seeders.
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You grow all those beauties in warm climate? So that means i can have a little hope then ;D they really look like crocus!
Don't say that too loudly while Thomas and Otto are around!
The clumps don't always flower as well as that, as Lesley says, usually you get a few at a time.
cheers
fermi
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Yes, I did notice Fermi's Habranthus. A super potful. I have taken on board the warnings about seed and will watch them carefully. However, I do intend to collect them, maybe two pods, and then sow them.
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Hi!
David, yes you are right, i cannot have a scotish climate here... But i have an idea. What if i use the refrigerator or freezer to put there the bulbs and fool them during winter? Do you think that might work? Do they die if they got freezed?
Lol ok Fermi! But the flowers are very lovely! Of course they look more attractive opening like that, but i think that few at a time also can make a show!
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Certainly not a freezer, Mike, and I'm not sure about the refridgerator, either... trouble is, they want to be in root growth and actual refridgeration might inhibit that too much. Ian says that you should try whatever you can get hold off and just plant them, have them in a coll sort of positon and see what happens!
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YAAYY!!! Yesterday i found Narcissus at a store and bought some! I never tried those, but the experience will worth it. If they manage to flower i will post the pictures, so you can help me ID them! ;D
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Hi Michael
I'm from Portugal too, and i also like very much bulbous plants.
What bulbs are you growing now? With you climate that must be very easy to grow this plants. I've seen in a graden's friend Hippeastrums and Clivias growing in the ground, bloomig so much.
Kindly
Cris
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Hi Cris!
Well those plants grow well here, we have some Clivias and Hippeastrums growing at some parks, and they do quite well, but in my opinion, they are not as pretty as those bulbous from colder regions, like northern europe. My climate is only good for medirterranean and south-african species. Theoricaly, the other plants from cold places will not thrive here, (at least in a long term basis). I bet that in your climate (which is a little fresh than mine) you can grow those better than me! ;D
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Hi Michael
I've already tried to grow a Galanthus and it did not liked the climate.
In deed, I prefer the South Hemisphere plants, they are so beautiful. I'm trying to cultivating them from seed, it is an experience I hope it will be sucessful.
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Michael, people in southern California have the same problem as you do with the cold-hardy bulbs like tulips. The standard method is to pot them up in Fall and place them in the refrigerator for a few months of chilling. Here is a link to a discussion about bulbs, on a website which specializes in California gardening: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/calif/msg1023314517620.html?5 (http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/calif/msg1023314517620.html?5) If you search this forum for discussions about bulbs, you will find a lot of useful information.
I can tell you from experience that this method has many challenges. For example, if you take the bulb pots out of the refrigerator and place them in a warm or shady place, the flower stems will be long and weak, and the flower buds may be destroyed by fungal diseases. In your climate, it is probably best to take the pots out of the fridge in midwinter, and bury the pot up to the rim in a bed of sand or gravel, in a sunny place. This will keep the roots cool, while giving the leaves plenty of light. Do not place the pots under a tree which drips sap; the delicate flowers will be damaged. Do not place the pots in a warm greenhouse with no air flow; this will cause all kinds of problems.
Most "Dutch" bulbs like to be fed with some lime and bone meal. See Ian's bulb logs for more data on fertilization. I mix lime and bone meal into the potting mix before I plant the bulbs.
Keep the planting mix moist while the bulbs are in active growth. After the plants have completed their growth cycle, the leaves will yellow and the plant will go dormant. The bulbs now need several months of warm, dry dormancy. Stop watering and let the potting mix go dry. You cannot leave the pots in full sun over the Summer. Your climate is too hot. If you have a basement or crawl space under the house, you can put the pots there. Or maybe you can cover the pots with several inches of mulch. But you must protect against rodents. Keep the pots dry and warm until September, then give them some water, place them in sealed plastic bags and put them in the fridge. They will make roots and flower buds in the cold. Watch the pots regularly, and take them out of the fridge when you see growth above the soil level.
It is a lot of work. But it is a great pleasure when you are successful.
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Great advice, Gene, thanks
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many thanks Gene! I know it is a lot of work, but if the work is well done, we receive an even greater award! I grow Disa uniflora and i put the pots every day on the frige during the night, so i dont see much difference, doing it with other cold bulbs. I will try your method!
Thanks again!!! ;D
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I like Dipcadi and this plant was growing in West Sahara. Very hard to grow in Sweden...
(http://www.sandstorm.se/bilder/vastsahara_2005/w_sah_2005_02.jpg)
/Stellan
http://www.sandstorm.se (http://www.sandstorm.se)
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The Dipcadi looks very like one of the bits that are left over when someone dismantles and then rebuilds his motorbike ;D I love the twisty, spring-like leaves.
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Wow wonderfull plant! It also remember me of the Gethylis... Are those available in nurseries?
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Uau... amazing!
I've never imagined that was a plant just like this, all green.
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Now these are twisty leaves!
Photographed in the Hantam mountains of the Northern Cape province in September 2006 - a Moraea species I think?
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Well by the looks of the flowers, it doesn't look long until seed is ready!
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Fabulous leaves!
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Rogan,
You're right, those flower remains do look a bit iridaceae, but never heard of leaves like that on a Moraea. Those leaves are absolutely to die for....... the great thing with those would be that you can grow it for those alone, with the flowers being a bonus. I lvoe twisty and spiral leaves, but have never seen anything quite like that before. I hope you manage to find out what it is, and eventually grow it. Thanks for posting the picture of it for us to lust after!! ;D
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Paul you took out the words of my mouth!
Rogan, is that plant abundant on it's natural range?
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Paul you took out the words of my mouth!
Rogan, is that plant abundant on it's natural range?
I was in a hurry and only saw the one plant.
Graham Duncan, a horticulturist at Kirstenbosch, Cape Town has identified it as Moraea (used to be Gynandriris) pritzeliana. It has been mentioned (PBS I think) that the leaves often don't curl in cultivation.
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Gee, pritzeliana doesn't even attempt to curl for me...... just look like normal Moraea leaves.
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They are amazing leaves - look a bit like the ribbon spirals that posh shops use to decorate gift boxes
Sue
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Hi:
Grown in gritty mix in full sun even tiny seedlings of Moraea (Gynandriris) curl up in the upper half but that effect of the whole leaf like a spring must be under extreme desert conditions.
Regards