Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: mark smyth on November 11, 2010, 12:18:39 PM
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This plant arrived in one of my troughs this year. It stayed small and didnt flower. Last week I realised it had grown very large and there was a runner haning down the back of the trough. What is it?
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If that was growing in a trough in Madeira I would have said Zantedeschia aethiopica ... ? ;D
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I see where you are coming from.
A measurment would be good - 15cm across and 10cm high 6x3 inches
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and I should say the conifer is a dwarf Pinus sylvestris
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Water plantain, Alisma plantago-aquatica :-\
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Thanks Ashley but my plant is much smaller
The measurement above is for the mound of leaves
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I was going to suggest it looked like something escaped from a pond?
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I was going to suggest a Pinellia, of that plain sort of leaf... but it doesn't make those runner things, does it?
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My first thought was something like an Orontium aquaticum, but it is too small, and I don't think the leaves are slender enough in proportions either. I too am definitely thinking some sort of water or marginal plant, even without seeing that photo of the runner. The runner looks VERY much like an aquatic. What about some form of Calla palustris perhaps? I don't think the leaves look right for a Caltha?
Anyway, some thoughts to ponder, just in case they help. ???
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My first thought was something like an Orontium aquaticum, but it is too small, and I don't think the leaves are slender enough in proportions either. I too am definitely thinking some sort of water or marginal plant, even without seeing that photo of the runner. The runner looks VERY much like an aquatic. What about some form of Calla palustris perhaps? I don't think the leaves look right for a Caltha?
Anyway, some thoughts to ponder, just in case they help. ???
Do you mean POND er, Paul? Oh God, don't let me join them! ???
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Take a hold of yourself, Lesley - don't give in to the temptation....
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I'll try to resist Anne. Shouldn't be too difficult as I always thing of the witty repartee minutes or even hours or days, after the subject has closed. ???
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Actually, Lesley, that one wasn't deliberate. ::) Good pick up!! 8)
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My first thought was something like an Orontium aquaticum, but it is too small, and I don't think the leaves are slender enough in proportions either. I too am definitely thinking some sort of water or marginal plant, even without seeing that photo of the runner. The runner looks VERY much like an aquatic. What about some form of Calla palustris perhaps? I don't think the leaves look right for a Caltha?
Anyway, some thoughts to ponder, just in case they help. ???
Do you mean POND er, Paul? Oh God, don't let me join them! ???
dare i say it has an air, i see, of the araceae?
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Rumex ? http://www.mindmegette.hu/soska-tavasztol-oszig-45257 (http://www.mindmegette.hu/soska-tavasztol-oszig-45257)
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Cohan,
It does look araceae, doesn't it. I've never seen an aroid with runners quite like that though, unless you're thinking along the lines of Philodendrons etc. I wouldn't expect them to live outside for years in Mark's conditions though?
Actually, having just checked Mark's original comments, my assumption of long term (i.e overwintering) is incorrect, which definitely does open up quite a few other possibilities such as Philodendron etc. A flower would of course sort out a lot. ;D
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Leaf wise it looks a little bit like a Lagenandra (or Cryptocoryne) but I very much doubt they do well in a colder climate in a trough, they usually grow emersed or submersed in the tropics. All Araceae I can think of with this type of leaf are tropical, I doubt it is an aroid. The runners remind me more of a Chlorophytum... ??? Or a member of the Liliaceae?
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If it survives the winter we will hopefully see flower/s next year
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Mark,
Do you have any idea how it ended up in the trough? Seeded itself or came with the compost?
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I'm also thinking of some kind of aquatic plant. Somehow it reminds me of a Saururus species (lizard's tail).
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When did you take the picture? is it still looking like that now?
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I took the photo last week. So far it has survived a few frosty nights
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Mark a shot in the dark but is it a Ranunculus of sorts.
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Cohan,
It does look araceae, doesn't it. I've never seen an aroid with runners quite like that though, unless you're thinking along the lines of Philodendrons etc. I wouldn't expect them to live outside for years in Mark's conditions though?
Actually, having just checked Mark's original comments, my assumption of long term (i.e overwintering) is incorrect, which definitely does open up quite a few other possibilities such as Philodendron etc. A flower would of course sort out a lot. ;D
i was thinking of aquatic/water's edge plants rather than tropical vines, though of course i have no idea what is possible in mark's area..
chlorophytum was my first thought too, though i don't know species with leaves like that (not that i know anything about various chloro species!)
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If that was growing in my trough it would have been called a weed a long time ago and have been disposed of ;D
Though it will now be interesting to see what it turns out to be. My guess is it's still a weed.
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Why not Alisma plantago-aquatica? It has the look of something in the Alismataceae. Or maybe an Echinodorus?
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chlorophytum was my first thought too, though i don't know species with leaves like that (not that i know anything about various chloro species!)
Chlorophytum amaniense/orchidastrum. But then again, also tropical (USDA Zone 9-11) so most likely can be ruled out as possible ID too.
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We go for Alisma as well, dwarfed because it's on dry land. If it flowers, ID should be easy!
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The other question that needs to be addressed when talking about any of these is..... what are the odds of a seedling of any of these appearing in Mark's trough? How long established has the trough been, Mark? Have you planted anything new in it that could have had a seed in the soil? New mulch? I would think that a lot of these things we're suggesting are pretty limited as possibly appearing as a volunteer out of the blue, aren't they? ???
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A seedling of Japanese miniature Hosta cultivars is my preliminary guess.
Let it be and the flowers decide.
I am really curious which guess is correct.
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Do Hostas produce runners like that? I wish some of mine did! ;D It would be so much easier to keep ahead of the snails if the hostas spread freely. If there are hosta species that do, I am very interested in hearing more about them?
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Do Hostas produce runners like that? I wish some of mine did! ;D It would be so much easier to keep ahead of the snails if the hostas spread freely. If there are hosta species that do, I am very interested in hearing more about them?
Hosta 'Yellow Splash' produces plenty of runners, certain clones of it in at least 30 cm distance between individual plants.
Miniature Hosta 'Mount Kirishima' produces offsets on 3 cm runners, and I suppose
the plant in the picture is a seedling of it.
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Thanks again everyone. It's not a hosta. Mine are now dormant but this one is green. Tell us more about Mount Kirishema
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I definitely need to find that sort of Hosta. ;D Maybe it could keep ahead of the snails after all. :o
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Thanks again everyone. It's not a hosta. Mine are now dormant but this one is green. Tell us more about Mount Kirishema
If it is not a Hosta, so it is not a Hosta. You can observe the plant thoroughly, not me.
It is too glossy to be a Plantago, Alisma or Echinodorus.
A relative of Cryptocoryne and Lagenandra perhaps, but which.
If you plant the offsets in an aquarium now, you can check whether it
is a water plant or not.
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The resolution of the image is not sufficient. The plant has crenulate margins of leaves if I observe correctly.
Correct me if the margins are different.
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some new photos taken today
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Great Moravian where do you live in the Czech Republic?
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Mark,
Well that definitely looks like it takes the 'Calla Palustris' out of the equation. Wrong leaf venation as far as I can tell. Hopefully others can come up with what it is.
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It resembles Valeriana. But which Valeriana is so glossy. The leaves of Swertia are elliptic. Venation in Alismataceae is different.
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Well that definitely looks like it takes the 'Calla Palustris' out of the equation. Wrong leaf venation as far as I can tell. Hopefully others can come up with what it is.
The ironical comments above suggested you are certain about the identity of the plant.
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Great Moravian where do you live in the Czech Republic?
Brno according to his signature.
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Great Moravian where do you live in the Czech Republic?
Brno according to his signature.
It is necessary to add a comment for the historians who might think Mark was absolutely stupid.
I completed my signature after his query for his information.
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Great Moravian where do you live in the Czech Republic?
Brno according to his signature.
It is necessary to add a comment for the historians who might think Mark was absolutely stupid.
I completed my signature after his query for his information.
Absolutely? :D :D :D
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Absolutely?
My English is not brilliant. You can substitute an appropriate expression for it.
I can imagine the results of my effort if I compare Czech writings
by foreigners.
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Absolutely?
My English is not brilliant. You can substitute an appropriate expression for it.
I can imagine the results of my effort if I compare Czech writings
by foreigners.
My friend, your English is wonderful ... 'absolutely' was the perfect word in this situation!
My Czech would be 'absolutely' dreadful ... :D :D :D
Greetings from a cold, but dry Lancashire.
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Thanks Great Moravian. I have been to Brno botanic gardens two times. Such a good place. The orchid collection :o :o The Peonies ... the rock garden ...
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Well that definitely looks like it takes the 'Calla Palustris' out of the equation. Wrong leaf venation as far as I can tell. Hopefully others can come up with what it is.
The ironical comments above suggested you are certain about the identity of the plant.
No, I have no idea on the plant. Early on I had suggested Calla palustris could be a possibility, but Mark's pic shows the wrong leaf venation (it has a strong central midrib I think, which Mark's plant doesn't have), so I was just commenting that the closer pics cut my earlier suggestion of Calla palustris out of the possibilities for what it was. I am just hopeful that someone with more knowledge than I have will come up with an answer for Mark as to what it is. No irony was intended, if that is how my response read. Apologies. :'(
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Two images of Valeriana montana
http://luirig.altervista.org/cpm/albums/bot-011/valeriana-montana13484.jpg
http://www.biopix.com/photos/valeriana-montana-00015.jpg
Probably not identical but sufficiently similar.
Determination of images of plants without flowers is difficult.
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Probably not identical but sufficiently similar.
Determination of images of plants without flowers is difficult.
Fascinating topic.
The venation of Mark's plant is not as the Valerian. I'd be interested to know if the plants is still green and above ground, or if it has died back by now?
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Leaves are cordate and venation different in Calla palustris
http://www.kvetenacr.cz/detail.asp?IDdetail=213
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The veination of Mark's plant is not as the Valerian, as Mark's has parallel veins.
Venation is pedate, secondary reticulate.
(http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6231.0;attach=254992;image)
In Valeriana it is different.
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Mark,
You should plant the offsets in a frost-protected place. So we can continue in the spring.
It might be a subtropical plant.
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Diane the new photos posted on the 22nd were taken that day.
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Diane the new photos posted on the 22nd were taken that day.
I think that's quite significant as some of the plants suggested on this thread would now be finished and underground.
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Mark,
Check whether reduced leaves or scales on stolons are alternate or opposite.
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New photos taken today. Maggie feel free to delete older images to save save
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I had never encountered a similar hardy plant before you posted the query.
Leaves are alternate. So I cannot exclude Araceae because of
certain similarity to tropical Cryptocoryne, but venation is different
in Pinellia. The plant could not get in the trough without you helped it.
No blackbird and no ant are responsible for it.
Check the lists of seeds obtained by you recently and
guess which plant it might be.
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By the way, don't forget to plant the offset in a frost-protected place.
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what about a Rumex
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GM, the troughs are new, made and planted in 2009. I used bought soil and grit with a friends leaf mould to make the planting mix. All plants were bought in previous years but not this one. It has grown too big for the trough and has to come out but I'll let it stay until it hopefully flowers next year
The plant has survived another frost without damage. I'll pot a runner just in case
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Davey the leaves are thick.
One last photo to show a large leaf on my hand
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I'm not sure Mark just a guess we should run a book on it ;D
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Swertia species?
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Mark, if you're going to lift it out I'd do it now. Judging from the growth and the thickness of the roots I'd suggest that by the time it flowers, lifting it may involve lifting the whole contents of the trough, very likely in a solid block :o
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Lesley if I cut it out I'll never know what it might be. Next year if and when it flowers I'll spray it
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Venation is pinnate in Rumex, at least in species known to me. Upper leaves are opposite in Swertia but basal alternate.
In Swertia perennis the leaves are differently shaped. Other species are unknown to me.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Swertia_perennis_1-T48.jpg
Venation is different
http://luirig.altervista.org/cpm/albums/bot-018/swertia-perennis15751.jpg
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friends leaf mould
It might be the source. Ask him first for determination.
If the plant is unknown to him, search and scour
together his garden and conservatories.
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The venation made me think of a vegetable called 'witte winterpostelein' in Dutch, Claytonia perfoliata.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Witte_winterpostelein_Claytonia_perfoliata.jpg (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Witte_winterpostelein_Claytonia_perfoliata.jpg)
From the picture you can see it's not this plant, but it might help to put others on track.
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I see the similarity but that plant has almost square leaves
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Lesley if I cut it out I'll never know what it might be. Next year if and when it flowers I'll spray it
But you could lift it out and pot it.
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yeah but there are snowdrops and other bulbs in the same trough. I might cut their heads off below ground
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Oh well.....
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Further possibilities are
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/pz/ranunculus_ophioglossifolius.htm
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/pz/ranunculus_reptans.htm
http://luirig.altervista.org/cpm/thumbnails2.php?search=Ranunculus+revelierei
in which the venation is not clearly depicted however.
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Thanks for doing some home work on the identity of my plant. It does have leaves like those Ranunculus
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I'm sure i said it could be a Rununculus earlier on in thread ;D
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Mark a shot in the dark but is it a Ranunculus of sorts.
oops so you did :-[
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Mark a shot in the dark but is it a Ranunculus of sorts.
ta daaa! you are correct.
While weeding today I noticed a yellow flower and the greenfly noticed it also
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Lesser spearwort (Ranunculus flammula)?
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keep it or bin it quick!