Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Primula => Topic started by: Peter Korn, Sweden on June 06, 2007, 11:48:11 PM
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Some nice and easy Primulas.
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Yes, they're easy all right, but shouldn't be taken for granted as they're 3 great value plants, flowering well and looking great. I love all these.
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I don't seem able to grow Primula sieboldii outside to save my life. This year they were an absolute disaster. Any tips Lesley?
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Well David, I have all mine in a cool place, reasonably moist though it gets very dry in summer/autumn and I don't water much. It's where I grow hepaticas, adonis, jeffersonia etc so that kind of place. The soil is very humusy as well. I have a lot of other small primulas in the same area and they do suffer when it gets dry but P.sieboldii doesn't, it just loses its leaves. It is very stoloniferous if happy and can make a big and very beautiful patch. It's quite deciduous of course.
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I think I will try a spot of re-location!
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Peter,
The easy primulas are not difficult in my garden. Such plants do not grow.
At temperatures of 35° C in the shade for weeks dry leaves and blooms of the plants. I know it, but I try it again and again. An old donkey does not become more intelligent.
Lock at the picture!
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I know just how they feel Franz, but we have to keep trying because they are so beautiful :) I find the candelabra types suffer most and I treat them as short-lived, sowing more seed - or letting it self sow - every couple of years. P. denticulata bounces back regularly and seems to come to no harm if the outer leaves are dessicated each year. They just don't look nice at this time.
With many species such as those in the sikkimensis group and the taller hybrids, I think there is something else going on as well. Not sure what but when the plants are dug up (or die and become detached from the ground) the roots seem to be damaged as if eaten or rotted and only a very little of white root is left near the base of the plant. At this stage, I sometimes trim away the brown parts and either replant or put into damp sand and often the plant will make new roots and survive.
Of course the nasties such as vine weevil grubs, grass grub and the various root aphis or mealy bugs have a ball when plants are under stress and so add to any other problems such as drought or poor drainage. It pays to treat for these BEFORE the event.
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I couldn't agree more Franz and Lesley - me too, I keep trying to grow some candelabras but they hate our occasional hot and dry spells - even watering doesn't help. I can hardly keep them longer than 2-3 seasons... but then, they seed quite easily so they're more than worth the effort !
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I'm just glad it's not just me!! ;D
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Howdy All,
Still catching up on postings...
Love those Primula pics. Wish they were easy for me here. P. viallii I've tried a couple of times many years ago and lost it each summer. Our extended heat does aweful things. I am intending one of these years to create a bog garden in an old bathtub, set up in such a way that I can monitor the water level underground, keeping the tub about half full to give plenty of water deep down, but a good foot of soil above for the plants to get oxygen in teh soil. When I have this set up I am intending to try a few of the Primula species again. I think that our heat and difficulties with water are the problem. Would the bog garden setup I have outlines sound like a good way of doing it? I'm intending to give it a shadecloth covering to keep the worst of the heat of it, yet allow plenty of light.
P. denticulata does well here, just growing in the garden fine without any hassles. Things like vulgaris, veris etc do fine here, but it will be interesting to see how they'd do in the bog garden with the extra moisture? I'd love to set up somewhere I can grow the candelabras as I adore them, but I have real difficulties with them any time I have tried. Usually the seed won't even germinate for me. I'm hoping in the bog garden they might naturalise eventually. One can dream. ;D
Lovely to see the different species. Any more pics anyone wants to share?
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Paul,
I think this is a case where the bigger your ambitions, the more satisfying the result. A 4m x 6m pond liner would only cost a couple of hundred dollars (how do I know that?), and the larger the soil/water volume the better. You'd be able to vary the depth of soil above the water line, maybe even include a patch of open water, and open up the bog area to a wider range of plants. Things like the various Sarracenia spp., Lysichitons etc., could mix well with primulas.
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I suppose the definition of "easy primulas" depends on where you are. In the west of Scotland, the allionii varieties require great care as they can easily rot off in our wet but mild winters. The candelabras, sieboldii, japonicas etc. can grow like weeds. I have to weed out denticulatas or they would take over the garden. This year, the candelabras are reaching plague proportions by self seeding everywhere. The candelabras will grow quite happily in running water as well as in bogs. I took the attached pictures in the garden about 15 minutes ago with the help of flash. The candelabras started off as 3 plants and now I have to weed some out before they choke everything else.
Also attached is how the candelabras should be see, as at Brodick Gardens
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Does anyone stilll grow the glorious Primula `Inverewe' which I think is PP. japonica x cockburniana or vice versa? I imported a plant of this many years ago and had it do well for a long time, dividing from time to time but then the vine weevils took a liking and it quickly dwindled and eventually was lost. Most of the things I lose I don't worry about too much - nice to have them for a while - but this super primula I truly regret. Although not `Inverewe' Tom, your Brodick picture put me in mind of it.
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Rob,
Ah but you see the problem with that is the 4m x 6m space for said pond liner. You have no idea how rare space is in my garden...... I already have water irises in a bathtub which I can convert to the bog garden, otherwise there wouldn't be anywhere I could even put another bathtub!! ;) I'd have to sacrifice something (Oh I really should stop swearing like that) if I wanted to put in a bog garden of those dimensions. As it is the 3000 pots already take up too much space anyway!! ;D
Tom,
If your candelabras are causing problems with too many seeds, please harvest a couple for me at the relevant time if you are able. Are yours a mix of species and or colours? The bed of them at Brodick Garden is delightful.
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Paul,
I remember you already have Lysichiton - is it in a pot? Planting it in the bog would reduce the number of pots by one at least! And all those martagons and other woodlanders in pots would actually take up less space in the ground (because with some of them you'd be able to put two things in the same hole) and need less care.
Only you know what's practical - but the largest size you can get away with is best.
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Rob,
Yeah, you're probably right, but there would still be the matter or where to situate it. The spot I have the bathtub set up is on a concrete slab in the back yard, with some shading already to it. It'll be easier to cover it to keep the worst of the heat off. Most of the backyard where the pots are is sunny, with the shde lovers in pots here and there around the place rather than in a big block that could be converted to a bog garden.
The Lysichiton is in a pot out in the full sun, with my potted water irises. They're in a couple of large plastic "ponds" about 6 feet across and 25cm deep. Now what would I do with all my Iris ensatas etc if I tried to convert one of those over to a bog garden? ;D I just collect too many darn things!! <sigh> I know, a bit of restraint would help..... there I go swearing again!!
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Paul,
This might be one of thse 'with one bound our hero was free' moments.
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What, you're saying I should run away now? ;D
Right now, the couple of hundred dollars would be a problem, but if my job interview goes OK on Friday hopefully that will change. Quite daunting going for a job interview after 17 years of either working for the Public Service, running your own business or being ill and unable to work. QUITE daunting!!
Whatever I do work out bog-wise, I am hoping to try Primulas in the setup, the Lysichiton camschatcense rather than americanum (less expansive as far as I know. My little plant barely grows, let alone expands! LOL) etc. I hadn't thought of things like Liliums etc. I guess I was thinking those would be getting too much moisture. I realise it comes down to the depth of soil above the waterline in most cases. That is why I thought tht the Primulas would be ideal, as they are surface, with their roots heading down to the water, rather than bulbous like the Liliums where they can migrate deeper and might get too wet. Interesting thought. Probably the Hepaticas etc would thrive in there too. Hmmmmm..... lots of thought going on now!! :o
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"I hadn't thought of things like Liliums etc. "
That's a meaning I didn't realise my words could bear. I was referring to our earlier conversation about planting marties in the ground rather than keeping them in pots. Not sure that it would be easy to manage them like that.
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Ah, I thought you were talking about things to go into the bog, not generally planting things out of the pots into the garden. I thought you were meaning martagons into the bog garden etc to give them extra moisture, which was why I was a bit confused.
The thing with the pots is that in a lot of cases I find them easier to look after and keep an eye on than in the ground. I water the pots more often than the gardens, so I can tailor waterings to their needs much easier. A shaded pot keeps its moisture in summer, whereas the ground is so dry here now that shaded ground doesn't. We have very little subsurface moisture, at least until the rains in June..... it's bad enough here that massive old Eucalypts tree that predate the building of Canberra are dying of drought, plus street trees that have been around 30 or more years etc. That's why in a lot of cases it is better to keep the woodlanders in pots instead of putting them into the ground, at least in my garden.
Sorry to others that this has got a little off target Primula-wise, but this discussion of the bog garden may end up helping me at least with my Primulas in the future, be they easy or hard varieties!! ;)
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Does anyone stilll grow the glorious Primula `Inverewe' which I think is PP. japonica x cockburniana or vice versa? I imported a plant of this many years ago and had it do well for a long time, dividing from time to time but then the vine weevils took a liking and it quickly dwindled and eventually was lost. Most of the things I lose I don't worry about too much - nice to have them for a while - but this super primula I truly regret. Although not `Inverewe' Tom, your Brodick picture put me in mind of it.
The short answer is yes, primula Inverewe is still commercially available. I am sure I have seen it for sale at National Trust for Scotland plant centres and probably elsewhere.
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Does anyone stilll grow the glorious Primula `Inverewe'
http://www.binnyplants.co.uk/plants.php?by=cat&expand=2&startat=781&show=3038
http://www.kevockgarden.co.uk/plantlist/primula_inverewe.htm
http://www.bucklandplants.co.uk/text_list.asp
http://www.chipchaseplants.co.uk/Plant%20Directory/P.html
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Paul, Best of luck on friday,
Derek :)
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What, you're saying I should run away now? ;D
Right now, the couple of hundred dollars would be a problem, but if my job interview goes OK on Friday hopefully that will change. Quite daunting going for a job interview after 17 years of either working for the Public Service, running your own business or being ill and unable to work. QUITE daunting!!/quote]
Sock it to 'em mate. Were are all rooting for you.
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My best wishes for Friday too Paul. I hope the interview goes very well and you get your job.
Many thanks Tom and David, for the information and links. I'm delighted to see one of my favourite primulas is still well and truly in cultivation. I see it's pulverulenta x cockburniana, not japonica. Maybe I should try the cross myself. Otherwise I'm probably stuck since importing live plants is impossible now what with the bureaucracy and the costs.
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Thanks everyone. I worked out it is more like 12 years since I last had a job interview.... I had a few while in the public service!! Still long enough to be darn nervous!! ;) Thanks for the best wishes. Now I'll stop hijacking this thread!! ;D
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importing live plants is impossible now what with the bureaucracy and the costs.
Begs the question if the parent species are in NZ is import of the resulting hybrid allowed?
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Yes, the hybrid would be allowed in. I think Australia assesses hybrids differenly but in NZ if both parents of a hybrid are listed in the Biosecurity Index, then the hybrid is permitted entry - following growing season inspection in the nursery of origin, phytosanitary cert with numerous endorsements to say the area doesn't have hundred of (listed) pests and diseases, bare-rooting, dipping, and freight, followed by post-entry inspection, 12 months quarantine in a registered facility, and so on. You see why we don't bother.