Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: Gerry Webster on February 17, 2010, 02:38:50 PM
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Sternbergia candida
Never very free flowering with me, there are 4 more flower buds waiting to open. Better than usual.
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Hi Gerry ,
My compliment !!!
I have it never managed with flowers this species :'(
Do you grow this plants in a greenhouse or in a bulbframe ?
Hans
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Well done Gerry !
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Hi Hans - Thanks. This is planted out in a permanently covered, South facing bulb frame along with most of my other Sternbergias.
(my apologies for the photos - not the best. I forgot to adjust the camera settings)
Thanks also Luc
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Thank you Gerry for your answer !
do use any kind of heating for this bulb frame ?
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Thank you Gerry for your answer !
do use any kind of heating for this bulb frame ?
No Hans, no heating. In a good summer it can get quite hot. The last 2 years have not been hot & the soil remained slightly moist - probably not good. No water at all is given during the summer & I start watering at the end of August just before the other Sternbergias come into growth.
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Gerry
I grow all my Sternbergia also in a bulb frame in winter - I summer I take it in my greenhouse in shade .
After 01. September I make it in the bulbframe and give them water ...similar like you !
In this season I have made my pots with St. clusiana + St. candida in my greenhouse above the tables ( together with my other winter growers )
My idea was that maybe in the bulb frame it to cold for this plants -the greenhouse has a minimum of 5° C .....but no flowers :'(
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Gerry,
Your S. candida are beautiful, thanks for sharing. I bought one bulb from Paul Christian (I think) about 8 years ago but never has it flowered nor multiplied for me. How do you cultivate your bulbs as they look so healthy and happy?
Luar
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Luar - see my reply no6. And for you & Hans, I should have said that I feed quite heavily with a high potash fertiliser. Before the first watering I apply Vitax Q4 (a dry powder) to the soil surface at about 200g per square m. When the plants are in growth I apply a half-strength, high potash liquid fertiliser (Phostrogen or Tomorite) at weekly intervals.
All my plants come from one bulb purchased 15 years ago.
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Gerry
I am jealous - must be the sea air that makes them grow so well.
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Might be the source Arthur. My original bulb came from Peter Moore.
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Might be the source Arthur. My original bulb came from Peter Moore.
Say no more ;)
Must try to get one for my collection :)
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Thank you again for your advice !
I also use Phostrogen .....maybe I will have also flowers in 15 years :-\
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Sternbergia candida
Never very free flowering with me, there are 4 more flower buds waiting to open. Better than usual.
I got mine from Norman Stevens a long time ago, it flowers every year but on only 20% of the bulbs but it bulks up easily and I divide it every 2 or 3 years.
Might be the source Arthur. My original bulb came from Peter Moore.
Say no more ;)
Must try to get one for my collection :)
Arthur
Remind me later in the year I will let you have some.
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very nice Gerry. I have had mine since soon after its original introduction and it has only flowered once. I thought it was poor and not worth the effort. Yours is far superior.
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Arthur
Remind me later in the year I will let you have some.
Thanks Pat
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Congratulations Gerry, it is really a great group!
Missed the flower of this species this year somehow- I wonder if this species is stricly selfsteril or not, last year I got no seeds of the different handpollinated flowers of the same clone, but seeds of Sternbergia colchiciflora which flowered below the soil surface produced a full pod.
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Thanks Hans. I have never had seed on S. candida but I have never tried pollinating the plants. They increase quite well vegetatively.
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Thanks Gerry - mine also increase well, but I belong to those who are really happy when they can grow a species from seed (even if it means there are pots nearly everywhere - to my wifes chagrin ;))
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Thanks Gerry - mine also increase well, but I belong to those who are really happy when they can grow a species from seed (even if it means there are pots nearly everywhere - to my wifes chagrin ;))
I know what you mean! ;D
The only Sternbergia candida which I have was grown from seed by my (generous) friend Otto Fauser and it did produce a seed pod the first time it flowered without another clone in sight!
cheers
fermi
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Hello,
Here is the way I cultivate Sternbergia candida.
I think, the plant is very cold-hardy!
See the pictures of my small Bulbframe in the snow from yesterday. Now it is the first time with warm weather after at least 6 week of frost and snow. I keep it always ventilated and suggest, that the minimum temperatures this season were around -15C. Of course it is warm inside when the sun comes out.
About mid or end of March I open all windows and close them again around end of May. No water between June and March from above, but some from the sides, which are also isolated but not too well.
I feed them heavily while in growth.
It is not particularly free-flowering, but I have quite a few flowers each year.
All the best from Linz
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Sternbergia candida
Further to my post on Feb 17th, here is a new (& better) photo taken today. The flowers have now expanded to their full size.
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Super plants Gerry,is this natural increase? How many years have you been growing this species?
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Super plants Gerry,is this natural increase? How many years have you been growing this species?
Chris - natural, vegetative increase. They all come from one bulb obtained 15 years ago. I love them.
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Brilliant, you've got to love it when you get so much 'free' material as a reward for 15 years care! :D
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Herbert, how deep are the S. candida bulbs?
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Alberto,
not too deep, about 3 - 5 cm.
I started to plant them deeper, but as all Sternbergias (at least for me) they did not like it!
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Herbert, how deep are the S. candida bulbs?
Alberto,
not too deep, about 3 - 5 cm.
I started to plant them deeper, but as all Sternbergias (at least for me) they did not like it!
My experience too. I presume that the relatively shallow planting facilitates summer ripening.
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Thanks Pauli and Gerry:
My question was because those I have received from the wild for our collection were amazingly deep in the soil. I was wondering if the offsetting in those plants you showed had to do with it.
I have always wondered if the shy flowering reputation of S. candida had to do with shallow planting.
Best
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same for me.. ???
They grow well, and increase, but still no flowers.
I'll start to add some potassium...
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Hallo Gerry, your Sternbergias are really wonderful, we have only two plants of Sternbergia candida (we received only a few years ago). One of them should to flower in a few next days (we are very wondering). Together with S. candida we grow St. fischeriana and I attache the pictures from today morning. Igor & Pavlina
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Hallo Gerry, your Sternbergias are really wonderful, we have only two plants of Sternbergia candida (we received only a few years ago). One of them should to flower in a few next days (we are very wondering). Together with S. candida we grow St. fischeriana and I attache the pictures from today morning. Igor & Pavlina
Hello Igor, some very promising buds there. I'm posting here, because I received Sternbergia fischeriana back in 2000, and for the first 3-4 years it flowered well. Then it stopped flowering, only putting up leaves. I read in your contribution to the International Rock Gardener Feb. 2010 that you have to plant the bulbs very deep. Maybe mine aren't planted deeply enough. If they come up again this year, I will replant them much deeper. I have uploaded a photo taken in April 2001.
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Hi Mark, that`s my experience. I received (12 years ago) a single bulb form Potterton & Martin Nursery. At the beginning I did the same fault you write -I planted the bulb quite shallow. But if you have a book form Brian Mathew "The smaller bulb", you can read that St. fischeriana "need planting deeply (at least 15 cm)". I did it and I have no problem with flowering (see the picture here below - also from today morning). Igor
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Hi Igor- Your S. fischeriana is very impressive. I don't grow it. There seems to be disagreement about how deeply Sternbergias should be planted. Like Pauli, all mine are planted fairly shallowly. My impression, based on the species I grow, is that heavy feeding when in growth & high temperatures when dormant are important in promoting flowering. This works well with S. sicula, S. lutea & S. greuteriana. However, I have not yet persuaded S. clusiana to flower. Under my conditions I suspect that deep planting would not encourage summer ripening.
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You are right Gerry, the summer ripening is very important for this species too. That’s quite difficult (but not impossible) to find a compromise between the optimal depth of planting and the summer ripening. We have two ways for that: first one – we cover the bed at the beginning of summer with the old windows (we avoid also of the excessive moister in summer), or we take the bulbs out of bed and we keep them in the room all the summer. And there is any other reason, why we have to plant our Sternbergia deeply – every year in winter we have at least one week with great frost here. And the deeply planting is one of the way how to avoid the lost of Sternbergia species in winter. Cheers Igor
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That's a very fine display of S. lutea Igor. Congratulations!.
I don't get severe frosts here, so no losses in winter. However I'll try planting some bulbs deeper & see what happens.
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The autumn Sternbergias have started here in Central Victoria!
Sternbergia sicula
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And S. lutea
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[attachthumb=4]
cheers
fermi
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Fermi ,
this is the S. sicula col. by Alan Edwards in Selia Gorge ,Crete , in flower now in my garden ,
Otto.
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Fermi ,
this is the S. sicula col. by Alan Edwards in Selia Gorge ,Crete , in flower now in my garden ,
Otto.
Alan has a very good eye for a very good plant. I think this is one of the best forms of sicula around.
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Fermi ,
this is the S. sicula col. by Alan Edwards in Selia Gorge ,Crete , in flower now in my garden ,
Otto.
Alan has a very good eye for a very good plant. I think this is one of the best forms of sicula around.
I was just thinking the very same thing, Art!
Otto, some of your Narcissus are flowering here! Ferdi is soooooo cute! Thankyou!
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Fermi ,
this is the S. sicula col. by Alan Edwards in Selia Gorge ,Crete , in flower now in my garden ,
Otto.
Hi Otto,
if that is the one you gave me a few years ago it is half way in size between the S. sicula (from Rannveig Wallis) and the S. lutea; it will be in flower soon.
cheers
fermi
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Hi, we were looking for quite a long time an appropriate commentary for this picture. Finally we founded this pathetic words “Hail, oh life giving sun we love so much”. Or has anybody the other idea how to comment this spring blooming beauty? Igor and Pavla
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Igor, exquisite photo!
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Hi, we were looking for quite a long time an appropriate commentary for this picture. Finally we founded this pathetic words “Hail, oh life giving sun we love so much”. Or has anybody the other idea how to comment this spring blooming beauty? Igor and Pavla
What about ' why won't it flower for me' ?. I have grown it for several years but not a flower as yet. No trouble with any others, must be me not the plant.
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Sternbergia candida
Never very free flowering with me, there are 4 more flower buds waiting to open. Better than usual.
I admired marvelous clump of this Turkishe odalisque in the garden of Kelaidis family in Denver (back yard). But Panayoti divorced with Gwen and in this way he divorced with Sternbergia candida. I would like to try it in my hot garden in Bohemia one day. Sternbergia lutea is Qeen of Autumn there.
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I admired marvelous clump of this Turkishe odalisque in the garden of Kelaidis family in Denver (back yard). But Panayoti divorced with Gwen and in this way he divorced with Sternbergia candida. I would like to try it in my hot garden in Bohemia one day. Sternbergia lutea is Qeen of Autumn there.
I would definitely want custody of any Sternbergias in event of a divorce too!
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Sternbergia candida is now flowering in Central winter in the depths of winter.
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[attachthumb=2]
This was grown by Otto Fauser from seed and I received one of the 2 bulbs he raised! It seems to have settled into life in the country quite nicely!
cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
If you have the second bulb he raised, are you collecting pollen to cross pollinate with his? No, I'm not asking for seed, just raising that it probably won't set seed alone and having two clones would be far more likely to produce them?
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My first autumn Sternbergia in flower is colchiciflora under glass. Some of my sicula show their flower buds now.
Poul
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If you have the second bulb he raised, are you collecting pollen to cross pollinate with his? No, I'm not asking for seed, just raising that it probably won't set seed alone and having two clones would be far more likely to produce them?
[attachthumb=1]
;D
We have clever bees in Redesdale!
cheers
fermi
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first sternbergia to flower
Sternbergia sicula 'John Marr'
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Sunshine in a pot, Tony: it does my heart good to see them on this rather grey day.
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Lovely sight Tony! They look very pretty in the sunshine.
Poul
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I have made an Sternbergia experiment this year. At the end of July one of my pots of sicula was watered unintended during my vacation. The water hose from my automatic watering system had a leak and the sicula pot got a lot of water. That resulted in a lot of leaves in August. Pic one shows how it look today.
Another pot was watered two weeks ago. Pic two.
The third one was watered yesterday, when I saw the first flowerbuds. Pic three.
The leason I learned from that experiment is that the amount of leaves at flowering time highly depends upon watering, but the flowering time is almost independent of watering.
Al the siculas are the same clone which I got from Janis Ruksans last year.
In the garden Sternbergia lutea 'Villa Carlotta' have shown the first leaves.
Poul
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Poul, an excellent experiment, thanks for sharing the results. Regarding dryness, I noticed Colchicum montanum flowered with virtually no water for 2-1/2 months; I noticed it flowering while the soil was bone dry and in 93 F heat (34 C), although the flowers looked floppy and sort of miserable.
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first sternbergia to flower
Sternbergia sicula 'John Marr'
A real cracker Tony !!
Very interesting info Poul - I'm sure we'll be seeing much more flowers yet !
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I have made an Sternbergia experiment this year. At the end of July one of my pots of sicula was watered unintended during my vacation. The water hose from my automatic watering system had a leak and the sicula pot got a lot of water. That resulted in a lot of leaves in August. Pic one shows how it look today.
Another pot was watered two weeks ago. Pic two.
The third one was watered yesterday, when I saw the first flowerbuds. Pic three.
The leason I learned from that experiment is that the amount of leaves at flowering time highly depends upon watering, but the flowering time is almost independent of watering.
Al the siculas are the same clone which I got from Janis Ruksans last year.
In the garden Sternbergia lutea 'Villa Carlotta' have shown the first leaves.
Poul
Very interesting experiment Poul .Thank you for sharing.
In the wild on the other hand (Crete e.g) they never start to flower before the first autumnshowers get them wet ?
Here in my collection ,also the first one in flower today : S. sicula 'Arcadian Sun'
In the garden they will flower in a few days .
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The first to flower here is Sternbergia sicula 'Arcadian Sun '
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First Sternbergia pics from South West Germany :
Sternbergia sicula ex Corfu
8)
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Great Sternbergia from all,
here my first flower: Sternbergia clusiana
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Fermi ,
this is the S. sicula col. by Alan Edwards in Selia Gorge ,Crete , in flower now in my garden ,
Otto.
Gorgous Otto. Together with sicula 'John Marr ' the best sicula-form ever?
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Here Sternbergia sicula 'Arcadian Sun' at is best .
First cultivated in pot. (picture 1-2-3)
Second in the rockgarden. (picture 4 )
In the rockgarden they are just a little bit later en the best is there to come.
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Kris,
Nice pictures of an excellent sicula! I find it difficult to get really good pictures of Sternbergia. Maybee the colour is not the best for my camera.
Do you grow the pots in an open frame or under glass? If under glass, when did you give them the first water?
Poul
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Kris,
Nice pictures of an excellent sicula! I find it difficult to get really good pictures of Sternbergia. Maybee the colour is not the best for my camera.
Do you grow the pots in an open frame or under glass? If under glass, when did you give them the first water?
Poul
Thank you Poul. I keep them in a sandplunge outside. In wintertime they are covered with a plastic roof.The same in spring and summer during periods of heavy rain .But I try to keep them without covering so much as possible during spring and summer.In august I didn't cover them at all and just let the rain do his job .In Belgium we had very much rain during august ,so they start to grow/flower soon this year.In the rockgarden the same species only get winterprotection. Kris .
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Hello,
my Sternbergias are also starting to flower!
First what I call sicula from Corfu: narrow leaves with a distinct white center and sepals pointed.
The last picture is of one of my many luteas, they start flowering a few days later than the siculas from Corfu. This plant is from Italy, from the surroundings of Monte Cassino. Broad leaves, white center not as distinct, sepals more rounded.
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very nice Herbert,here are four of mine
Sternbergia sicula
Sternbergia greuteriana
Sternbergia lutea
Sternbergia sicula 'Molly Dawson' this is strange because it is supposed to be the last to flower
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Congratulations to everyone on their Sternbergias. I am envious for, despite the relatively warm summer, flowering is very poor here.
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very nice Herbert,here are four of mine
Sternbergia sicula
Sternbergia greuteriana
Sternbergia lutea
Sternbergia sicula 'Molly Dawson' this is strange because it is supposed to be the last to flower
Wow ::) , again a splendid selection Tony.Greuteriana is not flowering here and even in summerrest.
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Same for me Gerry, congratulations as nothing at all here... :(
But I'm patient and will sleep close to the bulbs to watch first signs of growth ;)
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Hello,
I do not think, that Sternbergias are particulary difficult to flower.
They must be fed very well and have a dry warm sumer rest.
I think they are more difficult in a pot than planted out, at least here in Austria!
Herbert
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I have never flowered one outside here it is to wet and only an occasional hot day.They just produce a few leaves for a couple of years and then rot away.
I grow all mine in pots and rarely feed them but they are repotted in a rich compost each year. They are kept dry all summer and as warm as possible.!!
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Great pictures everybody how lovely to see these wee beauties.
I have only one flower so far but this is still early for us so I do hope that more will appear in the next month.
I have to grow them in pots as they just do not flower in the garden and I have the same experience as Tony.
I start feeding my Sternbergia in pots with potassium as soon as the flowers fade- they are the only bulbs that I feed with potassium in the autumn.
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This sicula 'Arcadian Sun ' flowers for the second year in our rockgarden.I think this is a robust form .
Perhaps the form or variety has something to do .
In pot Sternbergia lutea (Monodendri ).
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Herbert, you have great success with your Sternbergia!
It is a very nice clump of sicula. Your lutea is very free flowering. Do you give them some protection in the dormant period?
Poul
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It seems to be a good Sternbergia season in Denmark. We had a long warm summer so I expect many flowers in the open garden. But I have to wait a few days for flowers. But under glass there is lots of flowers.
1. Sternbergia sicula in rain
2. The same in sunshine
3. Close up
4. In clay pots
All these sicula are from Janis Ruksans
5. St. sicula ex. Corfu
6. Sterbergia greuteriana buds
7. Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold' in the open garden
Poul
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I think they're just so beautiful!
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Hello Pehe,
I grow my Sternbergias mostly in front of a south facing wall!
They get winter protection with horicultural fleece, well at least some of them!
All the best!
Herbert
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Sternbergia greuteriana
This form was given to me by the late Erna Frank & is probably from a Manfred Koenen collection.
It seems to need less of a hard summer bake than plants I grow as S. sicula.
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Gerry very nice to see a different form.
Here is Sternbergia lutea from Crete, a gift, and a general view of some others with the two pots at the back being Sternberia lutea from Turkey
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Very nice plants Tony. I have the impression that plants grown as S. lutea are rather less variable than those grown as S. sicula. Would you agree?
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Gerry
I do agree,all my collections of S. lutea look the same in both flower size and shape whereas the S. sicula do show variations and some seem very close to S. greuteriana
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Beautiful plants from you both. Interesting what you say about S. greuteriana Gerry because my S. lutea is an unreliable performer despite best efforts at summer baking :-\
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My Sternbergias in front of the south facing wall are near the peak of flowering
The second pictore is of a very large flowered clone from a garden in Crete. I saw them in flower and the lady there had no problems to dig a bulb - after she recognized what I really wanted! ;D
Below the giant are other plants from Crete!
Herbert
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I have been interested to read about different experiences with Sternbergia lutea this year as despite the very cold winter mine are flowering better than ever.They are growing againgst a south facing wall but have no winter protection, unlike Tony we do not have problems with too much rain. I have three clumps of the form shown which came from Turkey and there are about seventy flowers in total.
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Impressive displays Herbert and Melvyn ! 8)
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I have been interested to read about different experiences with Sternbergia lutea this year as despite the very cold winter mine are flowering better than ever.They are growing againgst a south facing wall but have no winter protection, unlike Tony we do not have problems with too much rain. I have three clumps of the form shown which came from Turkey and there are about seventy flowers in total.
That is interesting Melvyn. I too have found that, unexpectedly, S.lutea has flowered reasonably well - albeit somewhat later than usual. By contrast, some forms of S. sicula - under the same conditions - have produced no flowers at all. I find this a very unpredictable genus.
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Not 100 % sure about ID of this Sternbergia.
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My Sternbergias in front of the south facing wall are near the peak of flowering
The second pictore is of a very large flowered clone from a garden in Crete. I saw them in flower and the lady there had no problems to dig a bulb - after she recognized what I really wanted! ;D
Below the giant are other plants from Crete!
Herbert
Herbert,
It is obvious that you have a perfect site for your Sternbergias. They are performing very well!
That giant lutea is very interesting. The ones below, are they normal lutea ?
Poul
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I have been interested to read about different experiences with Sternbergia lutea this year as despite the very cold winter mine are flowering better than ever.They are growing againgst a south facing wall but have no winter protection, unlike Tony we do not have problems with too much rain. I have three clumps of the form shown which came from Turkey and there are about seventy flowers in total.
Melvyn,
Your lutea are impressing!
My experience with Sternbergia lutea is that they are very hardy (here down to -20 C) and tolerate winter rain quite well. But to have good flowering it is essential to give them a dry, warm summerrest and feed them well during growth. I do not think that a cold winter will inhibit good flowering.
Poul
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Wow! :o
Herbert, that giant S. lutea looks enormous! What are its measurements?
cheers
fermi
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Not 100 % sure about ID of this Sternbergia.
Arnold, I'm not 100% sure of the ID of any Sternbergias :-\.... in spite of learned friends declaiming about geographical certainties etc, I remain thoroughly confused
(what else is new, I hear them say!) - There is such variation to be found I have decided I can reduce my stress levels by letting such matters wash over me.... I find myself doing this more and more..... I prefer not to add stress to the depression I feel when I see the flourishing clumps shown in these pages. :-X
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Yes it is very difficult to identify Sternbergias, and some even say that sicula are forms of lutea. And maybe they are. I agree that there is less variation in lutea than in sicula (except from Herberts giant lutea).
There is also discussion about the relationship of greuteriana.
I have three different clones of greuteriana. One with rounded petals (like a small lutea) the others with more pointed petals (like a small sicula). Last two shown here:
Sternbergia greuteriana (from Potterton)
Sternbergia greuteriana (from Paul Christian)
The flowers of both are half the size of St. sicula 'Dodona Gold'
The last pic is 'Dodona Gold' in the garden
Poul
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Here is Sternbergia sicula from Lebanon, very big size, more than 20 cm diam when fully open.
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Fred, could it be Sternbergia clusiana? Great flower!
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Fred, could it be Sternbergia clusiana? Great flower!
Fred - I agree that S. clusiana seems likely - enormous size of flower & absence of leaves.
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Thanks for the nice comments of my Sternbergias!
It is my opinion, that Crete Sternbergias are quite small flowered compared to the one from mainland Greece and Italy. So the giant stands out more than it deserves. It is about 1,5 the size of a good Italian type!
Perhaps I can exchange one or two bulbs of it next summer!
Herbert
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Fred, I do not know if S. sicula occurs in Lebanon. As Gerry mentioned the size (and the form of the flower) let me think in S. clusiana - some of my S. sicula flower also without leaves if they do not get water to early.
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Hans you're right of course, it was a mistake when I was typing the name, of course it's Sternbergia clusiana
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Here are some pics from my new built bed made two days ago
The first ones show Sternbergia sicula Dodana Gold in the morning, at midday and in the evening.
The last two pics are Sternbergia lutea.
All were planted in summer 2010.
Gerd
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This sounds horrible but Maggi, I wouldn't be able to tell them apart at all!
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This sounds horrible but Maggi, I wouldn't be able to tell them apart at all!
I sympathise, Josh, they're almost as bad as Galanthus! ;)
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This sounds horrible but Maggi, I wouldn't be able to tell them apart at all!
I sympathise, Josh, they're almost as bad as Galanthus! ;)
Look at the leaves Josh. However, the most recent opinion is that, botanically, they are all S. lutea.
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I love them all! Do you guys have a place overseas that sells them? We in the states just have S. lutea, nothing different!
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I love them all! Do you guys have a place overseas that sells them? We in the states just have S. lutea, nothing different!
Josh,
I do not know a us company which sells Sternbergia bulbs other than lutea, but there should be a chance that you can get seeds from NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society). If you want bulbs, I am sure that NARGS know a source.
Poul
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I love them all! Do you guys have a place overseas that sells them? We in the states just have S. lutea, nothing different!
Josh - Paul Christian (www. rareplants.co.uk) usually has a fair range of Sternbergias. However, he has a minimum order size of £50.00 for overseas orders plus charges for Health Certificates & postage which makes it quite expensive.
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some Sternbergia in flower this weekend:
St.greuteriana, stoloniferae form
`` without stolones from S-Crete
sicula from Olynthos, NE-Greece
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The Italian Sternbergia sicula Bisceglie from Paul Christian.
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The Italian Sternbergia sicula Bisceglie from Paul Christian.
Thanks for posting this Gail. I've never seen the Bisceglie form before &, in appearance, it seems to confirm the view that there is no difference between plants grown as S. sicula & those grown as S. lutea.
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The Italian Sternbergia sicula Bisceglie from Paul Christian.
Thanks for posting this Gail. I've never seen the Bisceglie form before &, in appearance, it seems to confirm the view that there is no difference between plants grown as S. sicula & those grown as S. lutea.
Hi Gerry
Bit of a minefield here is it not. I am happy that the plants I grow are actually lutea and sicula, I have several forms of each and I can see the difference. However I am not so sure with grueteriania, I have the stoloniferous form which I think is the true thing but others I have look like smaller forms of sicula. I am not convinced that grueteriana grows on crete at all, but I am only a grower not a botanist, much work still to be done I feel.
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The Italian Sternbergia sicula Bisceglie from Paul Christian.
Thanks for posting this Gail. I've never seen the Bisceglie form before &, in appearance, it seems to confirm the view that there is no difference between plants grown as S. sicula & those grown as S. lutea.
Hi Gerry
Bit of a minefield here is it not. I am happy that the plants I grow are actually lutea and sicula, I have several forms of each and I can see the difference. However I am not so sure with grueteriania, I have the stoloniferous form which I think is the true thing but others I have look like smaller forms of sicula. I am not convinced that grueteriana grows on crete at all, but I am only a grower not a botanist, much work still to be done I feel.
Hello Pat. Yes it is a minefield & the plants I grow as S. sicula & S. lutea do seem distinct. However, the latest botanical opinion is that no consistent differences can be observed between the two. As regards S. greuteriana, last year Tony W posted a photo of S. sicula (from a collection by Melvyn if I remember correctly) which looked just like a large version of S. greuteriana. Make of this what you will. I incline to the view that there is one, very variable, species - S. lutea - in which distinct forms might be recognised as cultivars.
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About 100l/m2 of rain in the last days make Sternbergias appear, first Sternbergia sicula and a large flowering Sternbergia lutea.
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Great pics, Hans! It seems the autumnal growing periode started.
Gerd
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Seems like they enjoyed the drink Hans : they look great !
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Wonderful Sternbergias Hans.
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Hans,
Your Sterbergias are very floriferous. It is nice to see a flowering lutea allmost without leaves. I wish my garden grown lutea would perform like that. But our wet cold summer do not permit that. :(
Poul
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Having just read the recent posts I went out and photographed a couple of mine again. I am not confident that I will add any clarity to the subject but to me the plants that I have photographed look very different.
The first is what I call Sternbergia greuteriana which came from the Omalos in Crete, it always retains the same habit, and having checked last night when snail and slug hunting, this includes the fact that the flowers stay open and flat all night (as commented on by Ian last year). This is the only one of my Sternbergia species with that characteristic.
The second plant is the form that was distributed by Kath Dryden as S.greuteriana and has been seen many times at AGS shows. I do not know where it originates from but to my eyes looks very much more like the plants that I grow as S. sicula.
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Re my previous post, for easier comparison, this image is of the Omalos S. greuteriana taken at the same angle as the Kath Dryden form.
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Sternbergia lutea and sicula in the meadow.
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Sternbergia lutea and sicula in the meadow.
Franz, needless to say but the Sternbergias seem to love your conditions!
I add 2 pics from my new rockgarden here - the bulbs were planted
in autumn 2009, so I can't imagine whether they will perform well during the next years.
There is also a pic of two Sternbergias from the greenhouse - the left one
is Sternbergia sicula from Crete, the right one is a very small sicula/lutea from Karpathos and near to greuteriana (according the measurements of the petals).
I just hurried outside (in the dark) and found the flower of the right plant open - but also some of the luteas. Maybe opening or closing over night depends on the age of the flower?
Gerd
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Great plants from all!
I will try to show you Sternbergia clusiana in nature soon ;)
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Lovely pictures Franz and Gerd & I'm looking forward to seeing Miriam's...
The first time I saw Sternbergias was about 20 years ago on Jersey island - they are naturalised in grass on a steep bank, very much like Franz's meadow but sadly they won't do that for me.
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@Melvyn - thanks for showing your S. greuteriana - of which size is the flower?
@Franz - very fine Sternbergias in your meadow - get they any protection in Winter? Are they normally covered with snow?
@ Gerd, beautyful Sternbergias - hope to see many more pics of your new rockgarden ;)
@ Miriam, I am also looking forward to see S. clusiana in its natural habitat!
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The discussion if Sternbergia sicula and lutea are one or two species is quite interesting, I personally would think they are two with intermediate forms, but this opinion is only based in a few cultivated forms and not in observations in their natural enviroment. Here two I would call S. sicula and S. lutea (now with a bit of sun ;) ). The next two look intermediate: "S. lutea var. angustifolia" - MS 754 - looks like a huge S.sicula and "S.angustifolia" (Paul Christian) looks more like a small S. lutea.
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The discussion if Sternbergia sicula and lutea are one or two species is quite interesting, I personally would think they are two with intermediate forms, but this opinion is only based in a few cultivated forms and not in observations in their natural enviroment. Here two I would call S. sicula and S. lutea (now with a bit of sun ;) ). The next two look intermediate: "S. lutea var. angustifolia" - MS 754 - looks like a huge S.sicula and "S.angustifolia" (Paul Christian) looks more like a small S. lutea.
Very interesting Hans. My plant of S. lutea angustifolia MS753 looks somewhat different to yours - I have posted a pic in the thread on "Virus Symptoms". The plant I had from Paul Christian as S. angustifolia looks exactly like a form of S. sicula!
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Very interesting Hans. My plant of S. lutea angustifolia MS753 looks somewhat different to yours - I have posted a pic in the thread on "Virus Symptoms". The plant I had from Paul Christian as S. angustifolia looks exactly like a form of S. sicula!
That post Gerry refers to is here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6041.msg166955#msg166955
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Thanks Gerry, your MS754 looks really different ::) - not sure if there were collected several clones which have the same number? Maybe someone else is growing it/them (and those of PC)? Mine looked healthy last year, but I will check it when the leaves are a bit longer.
Here two more pics which make it easier to see the size of both "angustifolia".
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Hans - regarding S. lutea angustifolia. Plants under this name have been shown more than once on Luit's thread for the Lisse flower show (I can't remember when). Those plants looked very like mine.
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Thanks Gerry, you are right, they look like yours, but as Sternbergia angustifolia should be intermediate between S.sicula and S.lutea a variability can be expected - one with pointed flowers for example is shown here: http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Northumberland/+September+/61/
A picture of Paul Christians S.angustifolia is visible here: http://rareplants.co.uk/page.asp?id=SternMain
Kurt Vickery had offered seed of Sternbergia lutea angustifolia MS981 Italy in his August list, it would be interesting if the resulting plants split.
Edit: Checking descriptions, pictures and my own notes the plant I posted as S. lutea could be the clone 'Autumn Gold' - it is extremly floriferous and produces often two large flowers per stalk, leaves are more narrow than of normal S. lutea and similar the plants I have received as "angustifolia".
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@Franz - very fine Sternbergias in your meadow - get they any protection in Winter? Are they normally covered with snow?
Hans
No, there is no protection. Sometimes there are covered with snow.
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Thanks a lot Franz, interesting to see Sternbergias survived the last two hard winter!
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Here two more pics which make it easier to see the size of both "angustifolia".
And we can easily see why they light your fire!
;D
cheers
fermi
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;D
here one ex corfu - also very floriferous
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Hans,
a wunderful clump. 8) :o 8)
Is it from Mt. Pantokrator?
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Thanks Armin,
sorry, but I do not have further information where on corfu it was collected. :-[
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Hans,
when I visited Corfu last year summer a tourist guide told me from the wunderful yellow autuum crocus on Mt. Pantokrator ;D ;D ;D
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Hans,
when I visited Corfu last year summer a tourist guide told me from the wunderful yellow autuum crocus on Mt. Pantokrator ;D ;D ;D
I didn't know that Crocus scharojanii was growing there ;D
Poul
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Different Sternbergia lutea forms:
1. Sternbergia lutea 'Villa Carlotta' has just started flowering outside. Almost too many leaves! (12 mm wide)
2. Sternbergia lutea ex Greece has 20 mm wide leaves.
3. Sternbergia lutea ex Greece and St. lutea ex Iran almost without leaves.
And some other:
4. Sternbergia sicula graeca has 4 mm leaves
5. Sternbergia greuteriana with 5 mm leaves performs well outside.
Poul
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Hans,
when I visited Corfu last year summer a tourist guide told me from the wunderful yellow autuum crocus on Mt. Pantokrator ;D ;D ;D
I didn't know that Crocus scharojanii was growing there ;D
Poul
Pssst!!! Poul, don't tell anybody ;D ;D
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last Sternbergia lutea for the season just in flower
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Tony,
an excellent photo of an lovely species. 8)
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Beautyful picture Tony!
Last Sternbergias for this year bloomed the last days.
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I'm trying very hard not to be jealous of these clumps flowering happily in the sun...... not succeeding very well, though..... :-\ :-X
Lovely display, Hans. 8)
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Hans, I second that opinion, beautiful Sternbergia clumps, and beautifully photographed. My sole species (lutea) did not bloom this year.
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Hans , wonderful clumps of Sternbergias in your garden:the greenish-yellow sicula is unusual and lovely.
Do you flower S. clusiana every year without fail? Here it only does so after an extremely hot and dry summer rest .
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Hans, what beautiful clumps of Sternbergia in your garden. Mine just made leaves this year. Must be the soil ;) ;) ;) What's your soil like?
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Superb Hans. I must move to the Balearics!
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Hans, what a beautiful finish of the Sternbergia autumn season! This is a real highlight in these dark and rainy Nowember days. Thanks for sharing with us.
Poul
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Thanks to all!
@Maggi, same happens to me when I see your marvellous Erythronium you can grow outside - I would need Orons fridge to grow them ;)
@ Otto, I received it two years ago ( labeled as S. fischeriana) and flowered first time for me - will observe it the next seasons.
@ Maren, naturally I have a heavy clay/ lime soil but mixed up with some tons of gravel
@ Gerry, you are welcome - I am sure there are worse places to live ;)
There is not only sunshine - 'Dodona Gold' failed to flower this year - again. :P ::)
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Here are some pictures from my trip today to the Negev desert.
Sternbergia clusiana is a beautiful species and it is protected here.
Sternbergia clusiana is found in the eastern parts of Israel and the West Bank ,growing particularly in semi-arid conditions. It appears without leaves, which grow later in the season after the rains. The flowers are about 6-10 cm long.
Here some photos from the Sternbergia reserve near Yerucham.It is particulary spectacular to see the big yellow flowers coming out of the desert sand!
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In the Negev desert, it can be found mostly in dry creeks and valleys, between rocks where moisture is kept for a longer time, growing particulary on north facing slopes. In the north of Israel (where there is more rain), it is the opposite, it prefers south facing slopes and does not like heavy damp soils.
This one shows clearly the scent glands at the tips of the petals. See the different pollen colors:
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What a pleasure to admire these plants in their natural environment!
Miriam, Thank you for showing them!
Gerd
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Miriam - many thanks for showing S. clusiana - a marvellous plant. If only I could persuade mine to flower!
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Well done Hans ! and superb wild pics Miriam !
nice trip isn't it ? ;)
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Superb pictures Miriam,
great to see them in their habitat!
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Thank you all for your comments :)
What a pleasure to admire these plants in their natural environment!
Indeed, they survive on about only 150 mm of rain!
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Wow !!!
And I thought Sternbergia season was over ... !?! ::) ::)
Formidable picture Hans and Miriam !! Thank you so much for showing !
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Attractive photographs, Miriam, Sternbergia looks like a real creviceplant on some photos.
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Here is my latest flowering Sternbergia from today !
I have received this plant from a nice friend - it has in last year also flowered in this time ....
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Hans, your Sternbergia like a sunny ray in a dull day!
Alberto
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Thanks Alberto ,
we had today only two hours with sun ....and luckily the flower has opend !
for the next week is sayed cold and snow
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Photographed on two different graveyards in W Turkey: S. lutea. Not in the wild, but nice anyway.
http://keesjan.smugmug.com/Botanical-trips/
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Nice flowers to wait until judgment day ;)
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Hans,
I love the picture with hundreds of Sternbergia - a bit like Taraxacum in spring in Germany.
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Today Sternbergia fischeriana surprised with a flower - quite early.
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light in the darkness... Simply wonderfull picture Hans :o :o
I simply LOVE it .
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Today Sternbergia fischeriana surprised with a flower - quite early.
What a pleasent surprise!
It is nice to see Sternbergia in flower again after the winter pause. We have lots of snow here, and I have not been in my green house for about a week. After seeing your picture, I realized it was time to check the green house to watch for flower buds in my fischeriana. No flower buds, only leaves so far. But in my candida pot 4 flowerbuds was visible!
Poul
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Thanks Fred and Poul!
Hope to see first pictures of S. candida here soon.
S. fischeriana one week later and still flowering. Seems some Sternbergia easier germinate next to mature plants than in pots.
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Good to see these, Hans, but I just saw a weather forecast that says you may be getting a lot of snow soon in your Islands........ better be careful........ :-X
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Thanks Maggi - we had some snow in the mountains and also in the lower parts we had temperatures of about 0ºC in the lower parts of the island, but actually the temperatures are rising (7 to 17ºC for the next days). :)
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Thanks Fred and Poul!
Hope to see first pictures of S. candida here soon.
S. fischeriana one week later and still flowering. Seems some Sternbergia easier germinate next to mature plants than in pots.
Hans,
No doubts where these seedlings come from. Nice to see so full seedpods.
I have luck with pollination too. There are seed pods in lutea, different sicula clones, greuteriana and colchiciflora. That is promising for the new season.
As mentioned earlier candida have shown flower buds. I have not so many interresting pics to show, but here is a few from my green house and a single from my garden.
1. Sternbergia sicula seed pods
2. Sternbergia Dodona Gold
3. Sternbergia greuteriana
4. Sternbergia candida flower buds
5. Sternbergia lutea in snow
With that I will wish you all a Merry Christmas!
Poul
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I realize it's been some time since Zdenek made reference to my being "divorced": but I do want to emphatically stress that I am not divorced from my Sternbergia candida: It is blooming today (as I type this). I moved the plants from Eudora when we sold that house to my current home on Quince, and they seem to like the site quite well...although not as well as they like my friend Bill Adams' home in Pueblo where the attached images were taken...
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When I alerted Bill that I was posting this, he sent me the attached pix of the same clump a few weeks later (it was still 2010--so the date is OK on this)...I suppose this could be a futile post since we are in 2011 and you all may be discounting older postings...
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Holy Moly! A magnificent clump of Sternbergia candida- magnificent 8)
To introduce Bill Adams:
http://www.allbusiness.com/society-social/work-leisure-lifestyle-gardening/13302587-1.html
http://www.westernlandscape.org/cgi-bin/gt/tpl_page.html,template=36&content=1483&nav1=1&
http://www.sunscapes.net/Pages/About.htm
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I'm speachless :o :o
simply wonderfull
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Congratulations to Bill!
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Breathtaking! :o
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Aha! People on the SRGC actually DO check up on old threads! Glad to share Bill's triumph with all of you. His garden is full of treasures like this, and he is busy propagating and sharing his treasures with others. I like to think that Bill is one of my closest friends: I derive great pleasure from his company and seeing the many gardens he has created around his house and all over the town of Pueblo--one of Colorado's oldest and really nicest towns I think (although I may be swayed by the fact that he lives there!). He consistently brings some of the rarest and most wonderful plants to our rock garden club sales, and he has a great eye for novelties.
I was delighted that Maggi found those old nuggets about him (do you miss anything?)....
I'm writing from the 11th floor of the Sheraton Towers in downtown Seattle: tomorrow I judge their flower and garden show: almost as tough as the time you all made me judge a show in Stirling! I take that back: you Scots are much harder to judge!