Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: mark smyth on September 20, 2009, 07:50:23 PM
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I know at least two forum members grow N. sarniensis
Here are some teasers from my collection
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Hi Mark,
I don't personnally grow Nerine Sarniensis, but I've tried once digging the "bulbs" in the ground. And nothing special happenned... because they aren't hardy. You just put the bulbs on the surface of the compost??? How strange... but apparently effective! Could you tell a bit more?
Regards
Jean-Patrick
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Jean-Patrick the bulbs need to be ripened by the sun for them to produce a flower spike. This is why Nerines planted in the same way as Narcissis, 15cm deep, fail to flower. Mine as you can see need to be raised up a couple of cms in their pots. I wanted to do this after repotting all my other bulbs but I have run out of time.
Nerines do not need a rich mix so as I repot I'm using a free draining mix of horticultural grit, sand and a small amount of leaf mould. In the spring when I remember I feed with tomoato food.
In the summer they do not want to dry out totally so very few weeks I give them some water.
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Mark - Your nerine bulbs look very plump and healthy. Mine I'm afraid are grossly overcrowded but spikes are starting - far too early for my liking.
Anxious to see your Berlioz and Bagdad flowers.
johnw
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So you have been squinting at the labels! Of course I will post photos.
First N. sarniensis is open today - Inchmery Kate
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For JohnW - 'Inchmery Kate'
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For JohnW - 'Inchmery Kate'
Wow Mark, thanks. Twenty-five years ago the "Inchmery ..."s were considered to be the best of the lot. They still are at the top. Back then they were impossible to find, always sold out.
Have you been able to find 'Rosita Missoni" over there? It is a corker too.
johnw
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Not until you you mentioned it. It's gorg.
http://www.nerines.com/Rasputin_-/IMAG038A.JPG (http://www.nerines.com/Rasputin_-/IMAG038A.JPG)
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The next Nerine is out. Stupid name for a plant that isnt purple. N. sarniensis 'Purple Robe'
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The next Nerine is out. Stupid name for a plant that isnt purple. N. sarniensis 'Purple Robb'
Mark - It's 'Purple Robe', you're right it is a stupid name. Mine will flower soon and I'll post a shot.
johnw
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Thanks John. The label is now changed
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Seems the flowering of Nerines is determined two years before flowering so I won't know much about the new mix I used last summer. By the time they are about to flower I will have to repot them again.
One N. undulata seedling just getting ready to flower, it looks to be big and orangish so must be a case of a stray bulb rather than a hybrid.
johnw
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Where did you read/hear this? This means mine will fail to flower in 2010 because 2008 and 2009 have been poor summers.
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inchmerry kate is fabulous ! Thank Mark
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Where did you read/hear this? This means mine will fail to flower in 2010 because 2008 and 2009 have been poor summers.
Mark - Would your leaves not be gone by summer time? In which case flower bud formation would have been set already (for 2 years hence, see below). Seems to me that winter and late spring sun would be important; that could be problematic here as April/May/June are damp and foggy here though not this year.
Here is the source, the Nerine Study Weekend of the RHS:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/plant_groups/NerineStudyDay.pdf (http://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/plant_groups/NerineStudyDay.pdf)
The relevant part starts at page 41 of 64
johnw
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I assumed it takes heat in summer to produce a flower in the bulbs
Here is Purple Robe from the other side.
Wolsey is open today.
I think my garden centre Nerine pudica, bought as bulbs in a bag a few years ago and flowering soon for the first time, might be sarniensis. The buds are white with a dark stripe.
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I assumed it takes heat in summer to produce a flower in the bulbs
Here is Purple Robe from the other side.
Wolsey is open today.
I think my garden centre Nerine pudica, bought as bulbs in a bag a few years ago and flowering soon for the first time, might be sarniensis. The buds are white with a dark stripe.
See PaulT's and Alessandro's pix of N. pudica, you may have the correct item.
I don't see how a leafless bulb in summer could make a flower bud while dormant.
johnw
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I was told the bulbs need to be baked in the sun to trigger bud development. Isn't this what happens with Sternbergia?
I Googled pudica and found white flowers, white with a line and a stunning purple tipped one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8073338@N08/2370697488/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8073338@N08/2370697488/)
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I was told the bulbs need to be baked in the sun to trigger bud development. Isn't this what happens with Sternbergia?
You're asking a fine one, I have never flowered a Sternbergia in my life. Can't provide enough heat even in my greenhouse. And Lycoris radiata bought in 1974, well I am still waiting.
johnw
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I Googled pudica and found white flowers, white with a line and a stunning purple tipped one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8073338@N08/2370697488/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8073338@N08/2370697488/)
Oh my, isn't that a beauty!
I wonder where she took the picture. Said to be rare so I wonder. Grow Nerines by G. Duncan says of pudica "perianth segments almost flat with very little waviness...pink central keel visible on both surfaces, or restricted to just the lower surface....leaves emerge soon after the flowers open...3-6 flowered umbel...slender glabrous peduncle up to 460mm long...perianth segments vary from 25-32 long, and usually overlap each other by up to have their length, a character not encountered in any other Nerine". Flowers look rather small in the book. The flowers look more substantial in Colour Encyclopaedia of Cape Bulbs but the leaves are said to be 3mm wide, look like hair in the photo if those are the leaves.
johnw - beastly cold day here, 11c, raining, miserable and thunder, now clearing in the west and a frost warning inland.
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Here is pudica in bud. Also Atlanta and Wolsey. Wolsey should be an intense deep red but my camera cant do reds very well
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True beauties Mark. Wolsley looks like a great red. The pudica looks right, what about leaf measurements.
Pulled about a dozen bulbs with buds today and hoping it's not a bust this year.
Always worthwhile to do a flower count on each stem every year.
johnw
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http://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/plant_groups/NerineStudyDay.pdf (http://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/plant_groups/NerineStudyDay.pdf) pages 41,42,43
The first unusual feature seen in both Nerine bowdenii and N.sarniensis, and possibly other species, is the presence of two flower initials (buds), of differing ages, within the bulb at any given time (Sytsema, 1982). As far as is known this does not occur in Northern Hemisphere bulbs such as daffodil or tulip which lay down flower initials during the summer preceding flowering. Nerine, on the other hand, initiates a bud each growing season which requires two growing seasons to bloom hence a mature bulb will normally contain one large, outer, bud and one small, inner one. Towards the end of this talk I will suggest some reasons as to why this unusual behaviour may have evolved. We learn from the Dutch studies that nerines produce several leaves and a single flower initial (in the case of N. flexuosa there may be several) each year. Nerine bowdenii initiates at the end of its growth phase, i.e. mid‐late summer, whilst, N. sarniensis initiates at the beginning of its growing season, namely the autumn. Interestingly, Graham Dncan (Duncan, 2002) states that in South Africa N. sarniensis initiates at the end of its growth period. Can there be a difference between its behaviour in the northern and southern hemispheres? Clearly, this is something needing to be followed up since conditions and culture applied at the time of floral initiation could be of some importance. Now, let us consider the conditions required during the two years during which the various flower parts develop from the apex to the emerging bud, as this is when bud abortion can occur if conditions are unfavourable (see Fig.2). There is, in fact, plenty of evidence that N. bowdenii will abort the smaller of its two flower initials if the temperatures are too high in the first year of its two year ‘gestation’. Field grown bulbs which have initiated under cool, field, conditions perform well in their first year under glass but a second year under glass will see many failing to bloom. The critical temperature has been found to be about 25 °C (see Fig.3). Dissections of buds experiencing high temperatures show that they do not develop properly and subsequently die. For this reason N. bowdenii is not grown continuously under glass but ‘rested’ in open ground before reuse. High temperatures also increase the risk of basal rot (Fusarium). It is now generally accepted that N. bowdenii should not be kept too hot and dry in summer when in leaf. I understand that N. bowdenii performs badly in Israel and I have found some hot sandy soils in the Isles of Scilly unsuitable. So,ignore the suggestion to plant at the base of a south‐facing wall – an open site or even a lightly shaded one is preferable. Bear in mind that N. bowdenii is a native of the summer rainfall area of the Eastern Cape and the bulbs will often be shaded by vegetation. Our Amaryllid Journal of November 199933 raised the fascinating point that in South Africa a site near a south‐facing wall is preferred.Surely this advice has not been blindly followed here! So much for N. bowdenii.
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Mark - So it would seem at this time of year we are just entering the critical period for flower bud formation. And that those internal buds can abort if summer temps are not within the range suggested or the bulbs got too dry. Right? We may have quite the puzzle deciding if the mix, the early autumn or the rest was the problem!
johnw
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What about N. sarniensis, the Guernsey lily? It appears that here also there have been misunderstandings over its preferred treatment in summer. Hellyer (1948) stated, “In May, as foliage dies down, stand on shelf near the glass and cut down water until absolutely dry.” Today, few nerine growers would agree with this and the alternative of placing pots under the bench or outdoors would also be avoided. Dutch work suggests an optimum mean summer temperature in the range 17—21 °C, whilst Warrington et al. (1989) in New Zealand had excellent results with ‘Salmon Supreme’ kept at 22 °C when amazingly 42 % of the bulbs produced second stems, something that seldom happens in the UK. Warrington et al. Compared constant 14 °C, 22 °C and 30 °C and state that 22 °C was by far the most successful and is close to the mid‐summer average of the Cape of South Africa. Both Dutch and New Zealand workers agree that both low temperatures (approaching 14 °C) and high temperatures (30 °C) in summer reduce flowering. These data are summarized in Table 1, below. At the Study Day Graham Duncan confirmed that Cape temperatures do at times exceed 30 °C, but states in his book that, in their native habitat, montane species such as N. sarniensis enjoy morning sun and afternoon shade. We also understand that the mountains of the Cape are often attended by mist and occasional drizzle during the summer. So, I personally do not clean up dead foliage until August and place newspaper over pots exposed to direct sun in the hottest part of the summer. My plants, though dormant, receive an occasional damping over and those on shelves and staging have capilliary matting beneath the pots. Winter temperatures down to 4 °C are said to be tolerated by N. sarniensis but freezing must beavoided at all costs. There is evidence that the optimum temperature after flowering and during susequent winter growth is about 14C
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Understood, but the plants tested were most likely given the best soil mix, fertilizer regime and otherwise optimum conditions as worked out by highly experienced producers.
johnw
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The last line about sarniensis is something mine never get and could be why many of mine dont produce flowers every year. Mine are in an unheated green house and take what ever the weather does. I couldnt afford to hear my Nerine bulbs to 14C all winter
Anyone else on the forum growing N. sarniensis?
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My pudica has well developed leaves
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N. sarniensis
autumn 17–21 °C Falling
winter 9 –13 °C Minimum 4°C
spring 13 °C rising to 21°C
summer 21–22 °C Avoid excessive heat, cold or wetness in summer
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My pudica has well developed leaves
Duncan says 2-5mm wide, Cape Bulbs says 3mm wide.
johnw
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I couldnt afford to hear my Nerine bulbs to 14C all winter
Here that would mean another $400 tank of propane and the extra heat would have all the other plants in the greenhouse quite unhappy, especially in January & February.
johnw
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I've just checked the leaves on my plants. They are 10mm at their widest.
I didnt realise my hand was casting a shadow on this photo
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I've just checked the leaves on my plants. They are 10mm at their widest.
You mean the leaves of N. pudica, Mark, from « Reply #27 on: Today at 02:53:03 PM »on the previous page?
I was just going to ask you, because they looked about a cm. wide to me. Hmmm, so does this just mean your plant is robust, or has it hybrid blood?
The flowers are beautiful.
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Yes the pudica leaves. I know nothing else about the plant.
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Anyone else on the forum growing N. sarniensis?
I'd need to get another greenhouse first :-\
Enjoying the thread though, & these great pictures :o
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I've just checked the leaves on my plants. They are 10mm at their widest.
I'd guess one sumptuous pudica hybrid.
johnw
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Anyone else on the forum growing N. sarniensis?
I'd need to get another greenhouse first :-\
Enjoying the thread though, & these great pictures :o
They grow outdoors without a problem in Southern Victoria but I need to protect them from frost here in Central Vic.
N. rosea, N. fothergilla "Major" and N. "flexuosa alba" are more reliable without protection.
cheers
fermi
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Ashley I'm sure you could grow them outside. How close are you to the sea?
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Ashley I'm sure you could grow them outside. How close are you to the sea?
You could well be right Mark, with good choice of site. We're 20-25 km inland here so don't get full 'coastal conditions', but winter wet is the main challenge. From time to time I have succeeded outside with various things regarded as borderline hardy or even tender, mainly through choice of site and increased drainage, but have not yet tried any nerines beyond the common bowdenii forms. Maybe it's time to give sarniensis a go in a sunny corner, inspired by your and John's fine pictures!
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Exbury Nerines http://www.nerines.com/ (http://www.nerines.com/) is open for viewing from October Nerines
The Estate Office
Exbury
Southampton
SO45 1AZ
Photo (C) Nick de Rothschild
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Mark
A beautiful collection compliments
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Allessandro if only that collection was mine
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A seedling just about to open, close to red. The label says N. undulatum seedlings but it must be a seed that dropped into the pot. If it's an undulatum hybrid I'd be very surprised.
Mark - Your nerines are far ahead of mine. The one pictured here will be the first to open, the rest are a week behind this one. Does your greenhouse heat up or has it been warm there?
johnw
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No heat John but September has made up for August
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This thread is just great - nerines have such character - pity I can't grow them here as I read they wouldn't survive the freezing winter temps...they'd love the baking hot summer sun though - oh well one can't have everything :'(
Thanks Mark for the link to Exbury - fascinating reading and eye candy :o
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RR I think a very bright south facing windowsill or conservatory will be suitable
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Temperatures are back up again after a slight dip so I have moved the Nerines outside to a display table.
I saw on the news that Scotland will get it's first frost tonight
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Temperatures are back up again after a slight dip so I have moved the Nerines outside to a display table.
I saw on the news that Scotland will get it's first frost tonight
They are lovely , Mark.
I will not be surprised by the frost tonight.... it was barley 9 degrees at midday outside and a recnt caller to thehouse apologised for disturbing me at my work in the garden.... an assumption he made by the number of layes of clothes I am wearing, including large scarf and fingerless gloves..... I'd been here at the computer, not outside at all..... thermometer beside desk here reads 14 degress. Bulb Despot ( could be renamed DD for Domestic Despot, also :P ) says we "may" get some heating on after the Discussion Weekend..... :-X :-\
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Very nice Mark, I particularly like the plummy one at the back.
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Brian the plumy one is Amethyst Delight
Maggi is 18c just now
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Maggi is 18c just now
WHAT??!!! OUTSIDE??!!!????
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just checked again. It was 18C around 2pm. It's now 15C.
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,,,and it is a delight Mark!
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What a picture your Nerines are in the sun casting shadows, Mark, and thanks for the info... will try some indoors :)
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11C just now Maggi
I took photos of all the Nerines today and they look better than ever. Sadly I found one infected with stagonospora.
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11C just now Maggi
I took photos of all the Nerines today and they look better than ever. Sadly I found one infected with stagonospora.
Argh. Will you treat or toss?
johnw
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Toss, sadly. :'(
Despite a howling gale outside it's sunny. I had to show ?pudica again. It might be my favourite - for the time being ::)
One plant has produced flowers with an extra petal and double flowers
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John asked for this so here it is for him and everyone else
N. 'Berlioz'
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Stop showing me all these delights Mark, I am hard up!
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well Brian we would have to stop all temptations across the forum. I might have a small list next year when I repot in to 3L long toms.
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I might have a small list next year when I repot in to 3L long toms.
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Mark,put me at the top of that list.
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well Brian we would have to stop all temptations across the forum.
Heaven forbid
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John asked for this so here it is for him and everyone else
N. 'Berlioz'
I guess the appropriate would be Fantastique.
Just back from a two day cruise through the southern end of the province. The blueberries - high and lowbush are brilliant red, quite a sight in the bogs. The salt water must be at its warmest now as I saw people in swimming along the way and they were conscious.
johnw
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Is there a good source for Nerines near you?
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And while I was away the "undulatum seedling" partially opened. Eight flowers per stem.
johnw
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undulatum x sarniensis maybe?
I'm sure I have said this before - red sarniensis smell of chocolate
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A wonderful fiery red Nerine seedling, John - great homecoming ;)
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undulatum x sarniensis maybe?
I'm sure I have said this before - red sarniensis smell of chocolate
Maybe but my guess is a stray seed fell into the pot. I will have to wait to see undiulatum itself flower and compare.
chocolate? You never mentioned that and I must see if I can detect. Maggi?
johnw
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Nerine PS-17 'Rosita Missoni' x 'Ken Scott' getting close to opening. Flower count looks good but she's no Rosita Missoni.
johnw
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Bud stage is so exciting.
The lastest page to my web site is now up. After I've eaten I'll link the thumbnails
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/nerinesarniensis.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/nerinesarniensis.htm)
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Bud stage is so exciting.
The lastest page to my web site is now up. After I've eaten I'll link the thumbnails
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/nerinesarniensis.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/nerinesarniensis.htm)
Another great job. Giving Exbury a run for its money.
johnw
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Mark, that is a stunning page of Nerines, wow!
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Just wait until it's finished! Sorry but lazyitis has set in. I spent two days on the new home page, Crocus page, Nerine page and now my eyes hurt.
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/ (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/)
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm)
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It's looking good already Mark!
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The Nerine page is finished
Now to do Colchicums, Galanthus, misc bulbs, Muscari, Narcissus and Tulips. These should keep the 1m visitors happy.
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Lovely Mark, that Purple Robe seems a bit of a misnomer for a pink flower!
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Just had a look at your Site Mark, you have done a good job there. I have tried a few in the garden over the years but have always lost them-probably too wet in the Summer-but they seem to thrive in a lot of Devon gardens. Can you say a bit more on how you grow them under glass please.
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David your Nerines growing outside shouldnt be affected by summer wet. Unlike other bulbs Nerine roots do not die back.
My Nerines used to be grown in a mix of top soil and grit 50/50 and some slow release fertiliser. As I learnt more the mix has changed. Nerines do not want rich mix. I know follow Ian Y's mix of 50/50 grit and sand with a wee bit of leaf mould.
They don't want to dry out so during the summer they get a small amount of rain when necessary. I take a pot off the root ball and if it is dry they all get water. When the leaves start to grow they get a good rain fall. When the leaves are dying down I feed with some tomoato food. The main change from 2010 is they will no longer spend all summer on the plunge. They will be under the plunge away from the heat - should we get a good summer.
My bulbs started out in 4inch / 10cm pots. When these started to bulge they went on to 1L square pots. Most are now in 2L square pots round bottom pots. Next year is repotting time again in to 3L long tom rose pots.
Right now they are all at the front of the house on a bench enjoying the sun. The first two to flower have fallen over because the lack of movement in the green house caused weak stems.
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Pots show when the bulbs need repotted
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Here's a fallen stem. I could put a small stake in to the pot but I'm not will to damamge roots
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Thanks for this summary of your methods Mark, just in time as I pot up a first sarniensis 8)
Well done on the updated pages; I like that N. undulata especially.
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I hope the Nerine page makes more people buy these brillant bulbs. What was your source for your first bulb? What one did you buy?
I just noticed today that my flower pudica flowers has a petal on its stem
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Mark, it won't be very pretty, but how about gaffer-taping a stake to the outside of the pot to support the falling stems? It may be enough to let you get seed set if you want that.
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Mark, thanks for the info.
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Mark, it won't be very pretty, but how about gaffer-taping a stake to the oustide of the pot to support the falling stems? It may be enough to let you get seed set if you want that.
Hey, we get little 1-2ft hoops om a wire rod that clip on the edge of the pots. Green poly-coated steel. Might be hard to find as they come from the UK.
Just back briefly between garden tours and now Rarefind Nursery talk.
johnw
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A bit off topic but I wonder how members' Nerine bowdeniis behave in the late summer & autumn. My plant in the ground is still fully leafed out with not even a hint of leaf tip die-back. This of course means that it will be a very long time before the flower stalk(s) appear. Last year I posted a photo of it in flower on the 10th of November and I think it lasted till the first good frost in early to mid December. This year the bulbs got fairly dry during August and September which should have sparked leaf die-back, now that the monsoons are in full swing I don't expect the leaves will vanish until a frost. Has anyone seen it flower with the leaves?
johnw
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Mark - The pink in reply #68 is getting ready to open. The flower count is 12. I think Sir Peter Smithers thought 14 was the starting point for selection.
johnw
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12 flowers is good. I must count mine now. Looking forward to your photo
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Has anyone seen it flower with the leaves?
At the moment, one is in flower with its leaves outside the kitchen, it is growing in the shade of Crinum x powellii so it is flowering through those leaves. However, it could be that it is behaving like this as we have had no rain for so many weeks (until the day before yesterday).
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John my Zeal Giant and Winter Sun have their leaves
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If I thought the wind was bad for bending two stems todays rain has bent most. I will have to stake them tomorrow
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Mark - Some of my stems are snaking around in a curious manner.
Here is that undulatum seedling. Difficult to photograph in the evening so I may replace these if I have better luck tomorrow morning. Flower count 9 which is not bad on first flowering.
One photo with a light black background is not so good. I think my neighbor said to set camera settings with a white background and then quickly switch to black.
johnw
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middle shot shows it off best. a pale grey background works well. Mine was OK until I left it out in the rain
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This plant maybe isnt as supplied. Two years ago it was mailed without decent packing which resulted in the emerging nose breaking off.
N. sarniensis ?'Ghost Dancer'
and the collection tied up with ugly plastic rafia
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One more go at the Nerine "undulatum seedling" just before the sun hit the greenhouse this morning. Wonderful sparkling surface in the evening but difficult to capture. It seems to be a decent red.
johnw
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Your camera takes red very well. I can get the glitter if I photograph the flowers in full sun.
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Your camera takes red very well. I can get the glitter if I photograph the flowers in full sun.
Strange as it does not do well with dark reds like Rhododendron thomsonii. If I use a flash this Nerine shows orange centres (see above post) and that underlying pigment may explain the light red of the flower.
We got down to 6c last night so we put the glass door on the greenhouse last night and that seems to have speeded the flowers up. The autumn crocus are very slow and I wonder if I should have given them their rainstorm earlier than September 15th.
johnw
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My Crocus got an extra rain storm because the pots dried out. Turn a pot upside down, carefully, in your hand to see how damp it is at the bottom end
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Mark - I think I got the colour dead right this time, taken after the sun moved away.
Also 2 others just getting ready to open fully. The last big raspberry looks good colour-wise.
johnw
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I like the bumblegum pink one.
Here is my ?Ghost Dancer in sunshine today and Quest
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Wonderful red John, and that Ghost Dancer is so delicate Mark.
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Wonderful red John, and that Ghost Dancer is so delicate Mark.
Thanks Brian, we'll keep an eye on this one.
Mark, the perpperminty ?Ghost Dancer? is lovely. Quest too.
johnw
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re Ghost Dancer if it's right or wrong I love it.
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The good news is that Ghost Dancer is as supplied.
Brian it's not quite delicate. It's a big flowered chunky flower
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All that glitters ...
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Last Nerine for a while
Lawlord
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Yes it is big, but a delicate colour I think you'd agree.
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good enough to eat!
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Mark,
I love the glittering on so many of the Nerine hybrids. It certainly adds something, doesn't it. I just love it each year when they start flowering here.
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A question borne of sheer ignorance - is there any Amaryllis belladonna lineage in any of these hybrids?
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I could be wrong but I think it's selections from the wild and then crossing the colours
http://www.nerines.com/History_2.html (http://www.nerines.com/History_2.html)
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Yes I'm wrong
"The breakthrough in breeding these plants came towards the end of the nineteenth century with the work of H. J. Elwes who found that through judicious breeding with other nerine species a much greater variety of colour was available. The distinguished bulb merchants Barr & Sons also raised many new hybrids, as did the Norris family at Welland and the Stephenson-Clarkes at Borde Hill."
H. J. Elwes = Galanthus elwesii?
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H. J. Elwes = Galanthus elwesii?
Yes, indeed.... he of Colesbourne.... and a Lilium monograph, and Crinum breeding, and and and.... :D
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I think I'm out of the el-weez-e-i habit now
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A large raspberry coloured one - number three to open - Nerine PS-12 ('Wavebush' x 'Foudroyant')-27320b x 'Madron' .
And another #2 - Nerine PS-17 'Rosita Missoni' x 'Ken Scott'.
johnw
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Gorgeous raspberry colour - your Nerines are lovely, John :)
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I was given a white, from pink buds, Nerine today. Unfortunately I dont know if it is bowdenii or sarniensis. It doesnt have leaves so could be bowdenii
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A lovely gift anyway, Mark ;)
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Mark,
It does have a bowdenii look to it, doesn't it!? Very nice flower, whichever it is. I don't think I've seen a white bowdenii before. Other than the usual pinks, the only other one I know is 'Manina Forest Form' which is a bowdenii that is very tall and grows and flowers in shade quite happily unlike most of the Nerines. It is a very pale pink flower. I've had stems on it up to 1.2m tall. I really can't recall seeing a white one. Or my brain is just even fuzzier than usual!? ;D
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The Plant Finder lists 21 Nerine bowdenii cultivars including white.
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Mark,
Not that surprising..... but I still don't recall having seen a white one before. ;D
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Paul I know the person with the National Collection but I hve never beem for a look.
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Mark - The white certainly looks like a bowdenii. Don't you have Stephanie, the white bowdenii? There is another Stephanie just to confuse matters and I think it is a sarniensis hybrid. I saw a Stephanie for sale at the RHS February Show - Jacques Amand I think - but couldn't be sure which one it was as it said pale pink on the label. Also the hassle of importation held me back. Having just pulled a pic I see a white bowdenii I must have missed, rats.
Paul - Is Manina Forest Form the same as bowdenii Manina, maybe the one re-collected by Tony Norris in an attempt to get good uncontaminated stock of var. wellsii. If so it is supposed to be extra hardy. Wouldn't mind a seed or too if not out-crossed, we need tough ones.
Wish I had ordered it from Tony back in the early 80's when we corresponded. He had a wonderful list back then.
Last weekend I was planting some more bowdenii Pink Triumph outdoors and came across a bulb that had not appeared in several years, it had great roots and the bulb was perfect but was completely neckless - must have frozen off, there was no sign of rot. Wonder if it will ever make an appearance.
johnw
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Did someone mention 'Stephanie'? I took this yesterday
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Today 'Stephanie' is white except for a pink central stripe
Ghost Dancer is so big my fingers cant be seen
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This seedling looks promising with its pink base and tips. The greenhouse is kept cold these days so it is frightfully slow to open.
johnw
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Pink base and a pink tip look good for now
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The red hybrid in Post 94 has lasted a very long time. Two flowers on it started to wilt just today. Not bad, that's almost 4 weeks in flower and still a few more days to go.
Even better news, it appears to be setting seed along with a few others, just two days ago I thought it would be a total bust. More spikes have appeared now that the greenhouse door is closed at night and the windows shut. Still a total of only 24 flower stalks making this the worst flowering year in ages.
johnw
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Not bad, that's almost 4 weeks in flower and still a few more days to go.
That's all one can ask John ;)
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The colour is changing a bit on this one previously posted on the 24th. Very very slow to open. I think I counted 14 flowers.
johnw
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Most of mine are now over. Tomorrow I hope to get photos of Koriba and Baghdad
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Here are the final two for me. Many have not flowered this year.
'Baghdad'
'Koriba'
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Nice Baghdad there Mark. The Koriba almost looks like one of the other species.
johnw
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Baghdad and Berlioz are, I think, my favourites. Someone said "my favourite is the only I'm looking at now"
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That is so true, Mark, how can anyone choose between your gorgeous Nerines ;D
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Robin I'm sure people have favourite colours when it comes to these Nerines
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A few buds to keep you in suspense Mark.
I might light the furnace tomorrow to speed them up a tad.
johnw
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This one that was pink-tipped & based is getting more interesting, now it's a creamy, almost flesh pink.
johnw
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And finally that last one reported on is almost out. 12 flowers in a truss and compact.
I record the numberof flowers in a truss each year as well as the colour, size and shape. It shows variability over the years. Two years ago this very plant was recorded as salmon with white centres, 15 flowers to a truss. This year the colour is reversed as you can see and no white! As well I don't recall pink tips and bases before opening in the past.
Some which were noted a shaving spidery flowers in the past are now broad petalled. I must get all the notes in a spreadsheet, it will be an eye-opener I'm sure.
johnw.
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Great colour, John. :)
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Some which were noted a shaving spidery flowers in the past are now broad petalled
John, how come the Nerines are so dramatically different even in shape of petal? I would be fascinated to hear your thoughts ::)
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That's a great bubblegum pink
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That's a great bubblegum pink
Mark - It is really a soft creamy salmon. I will replace the shot when I get a chance to shut all the fans down and make a serious attempt at a good photograph. At the moment the power is off at home, we had an inch of very heavy wet snow overnight. I see the neighbor's big magnolia is listing to starboard. The snow has stopped now and hopefully will turn to rain. A bit early for this nonsense. +2c and a very wet cold.
Robin - My guess is the flower shape/size change is a juvenility issue. The flower count most likely a cultivational one. As far as the colour changes go I haven't the foggiest notion of what is going on. In some of the nerines - especially purples - you will see as they age you may get an orange edge or centre develop. Obviously those colours are hiding there but not expressed. May be it's a temperature thing, fertilizer or water thing. I'll see how big an issue this is when I get all the data in a spreadsheet - I do recall some very dramatic turnarounds in colour. By the way I use wrap-around tags on each bulb, coil it around itself to form a circle, held in place by a paperclip and placed over the neck of the bulb. (An old posting - last year? - will show the labelling)
johnw
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Was someone here asking about how long Nerines took from seed to flower? If so, have a look at the PBS site.....http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2009-November/035241.html
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I have two nerines flowering In Portugal now.
On with smaller flowers that is pink and one that is with with a pink tinge to it. My new camera does not show the pink tinge well but it is there.
I do not know what kind of Nerines it is so if someone can identify them I would be happy.
Kind regards
Joakim
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We are going full tilt here. I haven't been pushing them with heat, in fact the furnace while started hasn't come on in the g'house though set at 3-4c.
Excuse my assessment tags.
johnw
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One last one.
The dark purples and wines are always the last ones. They are still in bud but with the mild week ahead they should open up soon. Having quite the glorious Indian Summer here with a few days close to 17c over the past week.
johnw
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Excuse my assessment tags.
Great idea for marking cross-pollinations John 8)
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Excuse my assessment tags.
Great idea for marking cross-pollinations John 8)
Ashley - I use these bread tags for crosses too. For assessments it's easy to forget which you have done so this year I mark the flower so I don't miss any. I use a wrap around label around the flower stem to write the assessment then coil itself in a circle - form a ring. Then I let it drop down atop the bulb on the neck, nerines' necks lend themselves nicely to this method. This way they stay in place for years but it is a nuisance unravelling them, hence the markers. I will transfer all the data to the computer this winter and assign a code number to each bulb; only about 1/5 of some 400 have flowered to date.
If I could only figure out how to mark snowdrops and other neckless and below ground bulb seedlings. ???
johnw
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Wow, John. Some great colours. :o
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Very nice John. Are they all un-named?
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All un-nammed hand-pollinated crosses by Sir Peter Smithers. I haven't photographed any commercial hybrids though Apricot Queen and Flexuosa Alba are just ready to open. Also what appears to be a very dark wine red that has not flowered before. When it opens I will check the lineage.
johnw
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very nice ones John :)
Are the ones i showed also sarniensis or other types?
I did not find the nerium thread and with them flowering now I presumed they might be someone knowing what it was for kind.
Kind regards
Joakim
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I have two nerines flowering In Portugal now.
On with smaller flowers that is pink and one that is with with a pink tinge to it. My new camera does not show the pink tinge well but it is there.
I do not know what kind of Nerines it is so if someone can identify them I would be happy.
Kind regards
Joakim
Joakim - The top two may be bowdenii and the bottom one perhaps undulata.
johnw
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Thanks for the input John
I will compare the pictures on internet to try to make a possitive identification.
Thanks for the help
Joakim
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Two good dark purples still in bud. First bloom for the both of them.
johnw
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Very nice John, a lovely deep colour.
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I have good seed set this year. Unfortunately the flower head of of my double has died back
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I wish I couldfathom why I don't get seed set on my hybrids. Species, no problem, but not the named hybrids for some reason. ::) Yes, I know I've lamented this previously! :'( Will see what this autumn holds on that count, will try different times of day, standing on my head perhaps? Maybe I was just holding my tongue the wrong way. ;)
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Paul I dipped a small paint brush in their pollen most days and dabbed it on to other flowers especially from the double on to others
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A few more Nerine sarniensis hybrids in flower here.
A good dark purple, though there is one darker and with a better truss, and another creamy salmon amongst them.
johnw
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Wow John, those Nerines are lovely - I do like the dark purple, complimenting the pinks, but the star of the show for me is photo 44 :D
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Splendid hybrids John. Thank you to show us them. My preference is 940 and 943. Have they a name and where can we find such jewels ?
Dom
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9939 and 9944 are eye candy for me
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Splendid hybrids John. Thank you to show us them. My preference is 940 and 943. Have they a name and where can we find such jewels ?
Dom
Dominique - These are all seedlings from hand-pollinated crosses done by Sir Peter Smithers. As mentioned before the seedlings are so crowded in pots I don't get offsets. This winter I am going to get organized and put the best rated ones in single pots to bulk them up and get them around.
Mark - The wildest one for me is the one I posted two shots of - orange middle stripe - the flowers are very big and a most unusual shade of browny wine red that doesn't come through properly.
Superb weather here the week long but a deluge tomorrow. (Having said that about the weather the fog rolled in a few minutes later and we dropped from 16 to 10c; as they say here if you don't like the weather out the front door look out the back door.)
johnw
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John,
That purple is spectacular!! :o :o If you're dabbling at all with hybridising amongst this lot and ever have any spare seed, please let me know. Some of your colours are wonderful, and most likely all different genetics to most of what we can get over here in Aus. The purple is something that I didn't even realised existed, although I knew that there were blues in Lycoris etc. Thanks for showing us your collection. 8)
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Johnw
from where it comes the Nerine purples? you have put wine in the pot ;D
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That deep colour is really super John. You have a lovely selection.
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Brian / Alessandro / Paul
The two purples I posted recently are Nerine PS-8 and the seed was labelled 'David Lionel' x 'Hotspur'. 'David Lionel' is purple but rather light and not very impressive, 'Hotspur' is pink which fades to purple centre stripes and then purple. Sir Peter made this cross before (cross 30780) and he sent the seed to Exbury. I have a hunch my plants may be the F2 of selections resulting from the 1989 cross - ie ('David Lionel' x 'Hotspur') x ('David Lionel' x 'Hotspur') or we just lucked out with a repeat of the original cross.
johnw
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Interesting, John. Never heard of either of them. So what are your other ones derived from? You've certainly posted some interesting colours amongst your collection.
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I've just been looking through past photographs and it would seem David Lionel is largely responsible for the good dark purple genes. Here is a shot from last year of 'David Lionel' x 25519a .
johnw
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Just to clarify, John..... do I take it the "it would seem David Lionel is largely responsible for the good dark purple genes" refers to the lovely variety 'David Lionel' or to a real person, David Lionel, who bred them and has one named after him?
Sorry, rain tipping down here, dark and cold... it makes me extra curious! :-X
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Just to clarify, John..... do I take it the "it would seem David Lionel is largely responsible for the good dark purple genes" refers to the lovely variety 'David Lionel' or to a real person, David Lionel, who bred them and has one named after him?
Sorry, rain tipping down here, dark and cold... it makes me extra curious! :-X
Maggi
For a moment I thought you were suggesting something very exotic. 8) I must watch my '' 's. In all cases I meant 'David Lionel' - the plant.
johnw
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I had no idea there were purple's like that. That really is PURPLE, isn't it, not a muddy shade. Excellent colour!! Amazing. :o
Yes, I know I'm going on about it. I just happen to rather like purple (heck, my wife and I even had our wedding colours as white and purple) and it isn't something I associate at all with Nerines. Fantastic!!
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I understand your excitemnt overthe deepest purple, Paul. I can just visualise a smart conservatory, with big raised beds all round, gorgeous Vireya Rhodos and a display bed of seasonal planting.... one to change through the seasons.... with a stunning mix of these dark purples and the pinkest pinks.... eyepopping combination.... I'd love that!
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Mark - Here is a new shot of the Nerine in previous pix 9941 and 9942. It was cloudy all day so it appears a tad less pink than those shots. Still it hasn't captured the rusty brown underlay which sounds awful but it is quite catchy. As mentioned it has perhaps the largest flowers seen here. An F2 cross [('Wavebush' x 'Foudroyant')-27320b x 'Tibet'] x [('Tibet' x ('Wavebush' x 'Foudroyant')-27320b)]-30707. Quite foudroyant what?
johnw
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John,
I really do wish you'd stop swearing like that. :o ;D ;D
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The above truss of 9945 measures 15.5 cm across.
johnw
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lovely dark colour on 'David Lionel' x 25519a
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here is today a Nerine from my collection :
Nerine X mansellii
enjoy
Hans 8)
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Hans, it looks like your collection is endless! Spectacular!
Alberto
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::) ::) ::)
thank you Alberto !
.....but my room is not so endless ;D
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and what about the 1000 bulbs you ordered from South Africa?
Alberto
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:-X :-X :-X
please be quiet !
they are not for me ....they are for my friends for Xmas ;D
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Sorry! :-[
It had to be a surprise! 8) :P
Albert
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...the gifts are only for my GOOD friends 8)
:P :P :P
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Hans, I already know I was a bad boy on last year (sigh!) :'(
Albert
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Another lovely plant Hans, thanks for showing your Nerine.
Angie :)
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:-X :-X :-X
please be quiet !
they are not for me ....they are for my friends for Xmas ;D
Hans thank you :D