Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: Paul Cumbleton on August 18, 2009, 01:15:41 PM
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My colleague Chris Bailes, curator of the RHS garden at Rosemoor, would like to know of people's experiences of growing pleiones in the open garden in the UK. Have any of you tried this? What success have you had and with what species or hybrids? Has anyone got plantings that have been around for several seasons? What sort of situations have they been successful in? Can anyone post pictures of pleiones growing in garden situations? (and would you be willing to let Chris use any of these for a talk?)
Any experiences and information would be welcome. I would like to extend his remit and ask for comments from growers outside the UK too, as I think it would be a useful exercise to see what the limits to such endeavours may be.
My own experience is limited in this area. Although I have tried several times to get them to grow outside at Wisley, they always succumb to mice or slugs and snails before I get a chance to see if they would have survived a winter!
Paul
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Paul,
I don't have them in the garden, but I do grow Pleiones in pots outside here without any problems. Snails and slugs are a problem (and possums too unfortunately, as I think they sometimes think that Pleione bulbs are fruit and take a bit out of them, then the darn things rot. :o I certainly haven't had any problems with frost etc, even in 6 inch maxi tubes (so not much insulation at all, believe me). I have never actually grown them in the ground as yet.
Not sure if this is of any use to you, but at least it confirms that they don't mind the outside and cold bit, but we do have a drier winter than I imagine you guys have (although we do GET rain in winter usually..... although not much this year. :'()
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Years ago, I had a nice clump of P. limpritchii growing int the fork of the roots of a silver birch tree here in Christchurch. It got quite a bit of rain in winter and fairly dry in summer but increased well and always flowered beautifully
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Victoria BC is not England but its climate is not too far different as far as winter temperatures are concerned, so an experience here may be helpful.
Not me but a good friend grows pleiones out of doors. She has a sheltered garden with mature Garry oaks, and the pleiones are in a bed around one of those. Every fall when the pleione foliage yellows, she puts a pen of chicken wire around the planting and fills it with dry oak leaves to a depth of a foot or foot and a half (30-50 cm). I haven't checked on the health of her pleiones lately but afaik they come through undamaged even in the coldest winters.
I'm not sure which pleiones she grows, but they're probably one of the commoner and hardier varieties - nothing special.
It may be that keeping her pleiones dry during the winter is as important as keeping them from freezing.
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Glassford Sprunt told me the best flowers he has are from the plants he "neglects" in the open frame in his garden in Bridge of Allan, Stirlingshire. Certainly, I had a nice flower on Pleione forrestii this spring, which had spent at least 18 months outside, albeit in a sheltered spot, in a pot of sphagnum and chopped bark.
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I'm not in England but it still might be useful as we at least share the problem of wet winters. In my garden I've grown P. formosana for close to ten years. I've grown it in several places and they might thrive in one place for several years only to disappear suddenly. The clump i have now has been growing in a shaded spot for five or six years and increasing nicely. The soil is neutral and covered with granite chippings, which i assume is a part of the success since it keep the moisture away from the bulbs in the winter. I've also flowered P. Fuego this year in the same bed.
I have several others that are surviving outdoors but haven't flowered. I don't know which plants they are as they are a result of laziness on my behalf. in the winter/spring, when i repot the Pleiones i usually have a number of bulbils that either have strayed from their designated box where the label is, or simply too many for me to bother potting them all. I gather them and throw them into the garden. Those that survive have found the right spot.
I cover some of them with branches of the Christmas tree after Christmas.
My experiment this years is a epifytically planted Pleione. I started out with three: P limprictii, P. formosana, and P. hookeriana. The birds quickly removed the two, leaving only hookeriana to stand the test of winter. It is growing in an old mosscovered appletree. Although i doubt it will survive i still have hope.
Kind regards
Lars
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Here's Pleione limprichtii growing outside in Ian McEnery's garden, picture taken last year.
Perhaps Ian will tell us how he does it?
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Here's Pleione limprichtii growing outside in Ian McEnery's garden, picture taken last year.
Perhaps Ian will tell us how he does it?
Diane I am still growing this and it is growing much better outside than I can grow it in a pot. It is in a raised bed in a humussy mix mostly garden soil and a little compost and peat. The one essential thing is that I cover it with a cloche in winter to keep out the wet. It doesn't seem to mind the cold and the only time I cover it with anything else is if it happens to be flowering and a frost is expected. Frost just turns the flowers into a mush. I also grow others outside and I am trying a bulb of forrestii so we shall see how that works. Only time will tell if it will be OK
Here is a picture I think I showed earlier this year
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My friends grows Pleiones forrestii, bulbocodioides, pleionoides, hookeriana, ...? and some hybrids with these Pleiones outside! He had no losses this winter and does protect them a little (wetness). Maybe I will show some pics of them.
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Pleione "Blush of Dawn" grows very well tied on dead tree fern logs of Dicksonia antartica. These are in the shade house and only get natural rainfall, our winters are dry and the frosts are not so heavy here. The water seems to shed off quickly yet the logs are kept moist in summer and the roots penate through. Plenty of bublets so they are happy. When the logs are in flower these are placed in a conservatory for viewing. Im sure you could even try a live tree fern and the leaves above from the fern would provide shade and frost protection as well. Plenty of epiphytes grow on our natural standing tree ferns in our cool climate rainforest. Ive even experimented with placing some in a fork of a cherry tree with plenty of moss, they seem to be doing ok.
cheers
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Ian,
What are your minimum winter temperatures?
I have tried limprichtii a couple of times but not succeeded.
However it was a long time ago when winters were winters.
cheers
Göte
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My Pleione limprichtii survived temperatures about -25°C.
This winter we had -20°C and all my friend's Pleiones (see above) survived, only a little covered (wetness and frost)
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Ian,
What are your minimum winter temperatures?
I have tried limprichtii a couple of times but not succeeded.
However it was a long time ago when winters were winters.
cheers
Göte
Gote we seldon have more than minus 12 here. As I said it seems to be wet that causes the problem
Pleione "Blush of Dawn" grows very well tied on dead tree fern logs of Dicksonia antartica. These are in the shade house and only get natural rainfall, our winters are dry and the frosts are not so heavy here. The water seems to shed off quickly yet the logs are kept moist in summer and the roots penate through. Plenty of bublets so they are happy. When the logs are in flower these are placed in a conservatory for viewing. Im sure you could even try a live tree fern and the leaves above from the fern would provide shade and frost protection as well. Plenty of epiphytes grow on our natural standing tree ferns in our cool climate rainforest. Ive even experimented with placing some in a fork of a cherry tree with plenty of moss, they seem to be doing ok.
cheers
Stephen that seems a good idea so I will plant some spare in my Dicksonia next spring and see what happens.
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. . . it seems to be wet that causes the problem [of pleiones not overwintering out of doors] . . .
That's true of a great many plants from the Himalayas and eastern Asia and, to a lesser degree, plants from eastern North America. Tricyrtis is a dead loss in my garden, never surviving more than one winter. Asiatic epimediums too. Even uvularia has been known to rot away during a wet winter.
I'm sure that many of us go through the same ritual of rounding up all the tender plants in the fall so they can be protected against winter cold, but in my garden I also have to round up various hardy Asiatics so they can be put under cover, out of the rain. The most devilish of the lot are those that need protection from cold and wet both, yet cannot be allowed to go bone dry during the winter. One is constantly doing a high wire act trying to give them enough water without giving them too much.
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I have Shangtung in my peat bed and Muriel Harberd... in a trough
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Thenk you all for your tempereture figures.
There was a time when I grew Lewisia rediviva by the hundreds. I did that by using a cold frame with ventilation openings on a slope. The frame stood directly on the soil which was poor and sandy On top of that I filed a fairly nutritious mix with good drailnage. As soon as they started to die down I put the glass on. When they came back in the spring, the glass came off. i had zero losses until a mice foud a hole in the net that covered the openings.
perhaps something on these lines could help
Göte
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Here are a couple of my Shantung. I'm going out now and when I come back I'll look for wider shots
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I'll do it now :)
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I have never pampered mine that are in pots. They stay outside all year where they get watered by the rain, dried out in June, covered in snow and frozen solid.
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Some pics from the garden (taken today). As you can see the above called Pleiones survived the Austrian winter. There are only a few Pleione limprichtii!
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They surely seem to enjoy life Hans ! ;)
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Plione in the snow
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You call that snow ;D Here, everything is covered by 30 to 40 cm of snow.
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The most I has in my garden this winter has been under 10cm