Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: hadacekf on April 03, 2007, 08:14:49 PM
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Can anyone identify this Narcissus? I got it as Narcissus 'Tete-a'-Tete'. However, I think it is not N. 'Tete-a'-Tete'.
Any suggestions, please?
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Franz,
It certainly looks like what we have under that name here in Aus. Obviously I can't really tell dimensions etc from the photo, but the form at least seems about right. That is assuming that what we have under that name is correct here in Aus. Why do you think it isn't correct?
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This is interesting because there was a pan of very similar narcissi at Loughborough show. They were very uniform, and all smaller than T a T, and all had only one flower. We discussed the possibility that they were starved T aT, but in the end we couldn't say for sure. Compare the ones in Franz's picture with the daisy and you'll see how small they are.
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here'a a pic, sorry about the colour, it was the lights in the hall.
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I have made some adjustment to Anne's picture.
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I too think Franz' daff looks pretty much like `Tete -a-Tete' though it almost always has twin flowers per stem, as in the stem on the left. I love it because no matter how I neglect it or drown it or cook it or starve it, it ALWAYS comes through and flowers where others act according to the treatment they've received.
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On a second and third look, I'm not so sure. Perhaps the sepals are a little long and far reaching for `T a T'?
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I have a "Dutch garden center" T T in Lund that I got last year that was 10-15cm and this year only 3-5 due to lack of water and feed.
Just to illustrate that it can happen. It might also be due to that it was getting ready early this year Outside where it was cold and warm and not a steady temperature as in a gardencenter.
The size of the flower was normal.
I do not know if this information helps in detereminating the flower.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Here are a few Narcissus hybrids flowering in the garden. The first one is amongst Narcissus cycalmineus. The second is amongst Narcissus Angel's Tears, which haven't started flowering yet. Both hybrids are a lot bigger.
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That first one's a beauty!
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My Tetes in the garden never produce many twins or triplets even though they are well fed
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I thought that this outstanding hybrid must have up to three flowers. However my plants had always only one flower. The height is 15 cm.
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Yes, Franz, I too thought that Tete a Tete should have at least two flowers.
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And just what is Tete a Tete? Go round the supermarkets and garden centres and look at the planted up baskets of miature daffodils in flower. They nearly all describe them as Tete a Tete and you can take your choice of numbers of flowers per stem, height and even get bi-colours - all under this catch all name.
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Quite so, David, this daff has suffered like many bulbs and other plants, in that many variations may be obtained under one name. This is what the RHS registry of narcissus has to say about Tête-à-Tête : The International Daffodil Register and Classified List (1998)
Daffodil name
Tête-à-Tête
Registered? Yes
Division
12
Perianth colour(s)
Y
Corona colour(s)
Y
Originator name
A. Gray
Date of first flowering
pre1949
Seed parent
`Cyclataz' self or open pollinated
Description
Fls 2-3 per stem, 65 mm wide; perianth segments ovate, brilliant yellow 8A, with slight white mucro, spreading or a little reflexed, plane, overlapping a quarter; the inner segments with margins wavy; corona cylindrical, short, broadly angled, slightly constricted near mouth, darker in tone (more vivid than 14B) than the perianth, mouth straight or slightly expanded, 6-lobed, with rim crenate. Dwarf. Very early. 2n=24+1B
Synonym(s)
none
Award(s)
AM (p) 1956
FCC (p) 1962
*AM (g) 1973
*FCC (g) 1974
AGM 1993
Notes
A specimen of this cv. is the nomenclatural type of {N.} x {cyclazetta}
I'm having a look to see if I can find any photos of award plants .
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This is how it should be as seen at a daff show a couple of weeks ago. How many did the shower grow to get one like this!?
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Nice seedlings Susan.
`Tete-a-Tete' is always first to flower here, by 2 or 3 weeks. (Apart from the winter flowering romieuxii forms of course and Nylon and Cedric Morris and..)The first of the really SPRING flowering vars.
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That one's spot on Mark.
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I have a large patch of what I bought many years ago as 2Tete aTete2 which are the same as Franz's and flower in late February and last about a month.
They have never set seed even after my efforts to pollinate them.
Is this a trait of Tete a Tete?
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According to Daffseek both seeds and pollen are fertile
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Franz,
Narcissus Tete-a-Tete is the most numerous narcissus in my garden, the one which I use as my 'background' daffodil, planted simply for large group colour impact. I find there is a wide range of variation in my groups of Tete-a-Tete. Some are as low as 15cm while others are as high as 45. Likewise, there is considerable variation regarding the number of flowers per stalk; two is normal but there are many with only one.
It seems to be a variable plant but one which still serves the garden very well.
Paddy
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Paddy can you beat this? ;D This is a field of Tete-a-Tete in Holland
By kind permission of Jan Pennings
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This is a field of Tete-a-Tete in Holland
If someone discovered this field full in the wild, they would write a report saying the plants were 'locally plentiful', wouldn't they? Nice sun, too!!
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All those, and the bag I bought from the garden centre marked as having been grown in Holland were anything but Tete-a-Tete! >:(
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Thanks, all, for the comments. Since Narcissus Tete a Tete should have 2 – 3 flowers per stem is my Narcissus with one flower not a Tete a Tete.
The same Narcissi in my garden
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Franz join the club! Out of interest I'll go through mine tomorrow to see how many flowers there were in both groups I have
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Hello,
My friend Teo and I have discovered this year two new populations of Narcissus assoanus in our region.
Here some pictures. I have also visited Narcissus calcicarpetanus (actually, Narcissus confusus)
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Rafa,
Great to see you post again and good to read that you have discovered another interesting population.
Many thanks for the photographs.
Paddy
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A few narcissus cultivars from the garden.
N. bulbocodium 'C. Greenfield Late'
Ditto
N. 'Colleen Bawn'
N. X intermedius
N. 'Minnow'
N. 'Pacific Coast'
N. 'Pipit'
N. X intermedius
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And a few more narcissus.
N. triandrus triandrus
N. triandrus 'Lemon Drops'
N. watieri
Paddy
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Lovely Paddy, just lovely. I think my favourite is Narcissus 'Colleen Bawn', I always seem to favour the white Narcissus.
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moschatus, of which Colleen, is a selection is where all the white genes for trumpets came from
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Great show Paddy !!
Difficult for me to choose a favourite, but clearly your daffs aren't suffering from the drought as much as Mark's are at his end of the "green Isle"...
Thanks for sharing !
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David,
N. 'Colleen Bawn' is a lovely plant. I edit a newsletter for the Irish Garden Plant Society and used this photograph on the front cover of the current issue.
This is a small trumpet daffodil which was introduced c. 1890 by William Baylor Hartland of Ard Cairn, Cork. It grows to approximately 10 inches high, is white, tinted pale primrose yellow, especially the corona, which is turned back at the mouth and much frilled. The perianth tube, just above the ovary, is a deeper greenish yellow, fading towards the ovary.
William Baylor Hartland collected daffodils from many old gardens in the Cork area in the latter quarter of the nineteenth century and it seems likely that this is the origin of this daffodil.
Mark, I couldn't comment on it being a cultivar of N. moschatus but it certainly looks very like one.
Paddy
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It was Brian Duncan who told me Colleen, alpestris and moschatus are variation on a theme. To me they all look the same but then mine may not be as supplied
Colleen Bawn
alpestris
moschatus
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I forgot to say I was at Margaret Glynn's again!, my second home, and a spotted a fantastic group of Tete-a-Tete. All 2 and 3 headed!
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I was at Margaret Glynn's again!, my second home
Yes, you would have us believe it's for the flowers but remember, NOW we've SEEN the CAKE!!
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Mark, you're having us on! Your Colleen and moschatus are surely the same flower!
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I also wanted to compliment Paddy on his daffs, the hot weather here is shortening the lifespan of the daffodil flowers alas.
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I see what you mean. Too late now to photograph all three. The drought has withered the flowers
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Some wonderful Narcissus in here. Definitely a few species I haven't seen before. I just love the different species and am hoping to gradually collect them as I can find them. There is something to the species that is so much more delicate that the bigger types. Then again I do tend to love smaller flowers so maybe I am just being biased in that way. LOL Lovely to see the species I haven't seen before (and everything else as well).
The pseudonarcissus ssp are hard to flower here. I have one or two bulbs of moschatus that flower for me out of maybe 50 of them. The ssp obvillaris has never flowered for me, much to my disappointment. I do so want to see the Tenby Daffodill in person. <sigh> I'm figuring that they don't like the summer heat, yet the 2 moschatus are in a black plastic pot so they flower despite the heat. Why they flower and others similarly potted is beyond my knowledge. The others just continue to multiply like mad, sacrificing flowers for offsets. Seeing pics here of them flowering en mass in the wild is just amazing..... wish I could get my bulbs of them to flower like that. Anyone know what the key to flowering pseudonarcissus is? Or do they all just automatically flower for you guys and so there has never been any need to think about it?
Thanks for the lovely pics everyone. I'm really enjoying them.
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thanks to all for the nice pixs
Here a few snap shots.
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Armin,
I had my nose to the ground today beside a clump of N. 'Pipit' - doing a bit of weeding and freshening up in the bed. Last week I had taken a photograph of this clump and today I was struck by the difference in the flowers since then.
This is apparent in the last photograph you posted. It seems that it is only when the flower ages a little that the lovely white around the trumpet becomes more pronounced and adds so much to the appearance of the flower. Same with you?
A lovely plant. Good photographs, Many thanks.
Paddy
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Paddy, quite right. At the beginning the flowers of N. Pipit are almost yellow. Later they start becomming white from the center. At the end they are bi-color.
A picture taken 2005.
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Armin,
A particularly clear example of the bi-colouring of 'Pipit'. Very nice. I find it a very good daffodil in the garden, grows easily and mulitplies well.
Here are a few in flower here at the moment:
N. jonquilla
N. jonquilla 'Chit Chat'
N. 'Segovia'
N. - name lost
Same again.
Can anybody help with suggestions for the last narcissus. I have it for many years and think it is a lovely plant. If you suggest a name you may well trigger a memory in this old brain.
Paddy
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Does the name 'Hawera' trigger the memory Paddy?
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I'd agree with Tony, but if not "Hawera" possibly one of the other triandrus x jonquilla type crosses.
cheers
fermi
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This is my 'Hawera'
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Tony and Fermi, you are both spot on. Mrs. Memory, dear wife of mine, is here beside me and says 'Yes, Hawera is definitely one we had but cannot now locate in the garden'. So, many thanks to you both; I can not put a name and a label with them.
Many thanks for the photograph, Mark. Yours and mine certainly match.
Happy Gardener here, Many thanks. Paddy
OH, Fermi, those nerine photographs were great - for some reason I couldn't reply from that page. Paddy
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Another for you...
www.botanicalgardening.com/noreaster-0407.html
Narcissus aquaticus..........
Carlo
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Very good Carlo. We have a surprising number of this species along the banks of the River Alan in Dunblane, and they spend most winters with more than their feet in water.
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Like trying to get a word in edgewise with a person who manages to speak even as they inhale, you just have to wait until the storm runs out of breath
....from Carlo's site.
So, Carlo, you have met both me and Robert Rolfe then!
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Well, Maggi, I have met Robert...
...and will now look forward to meeting you (suitably forewarned!).
For those who are worried about the poor narcissi, the water has now receded...
Carlo
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Carlo, you were at Alpines 2001, were you not? I have vague recollections of meeting you there, or was that one of 500 other people from the world of alpine lovers? !!! ::) :P 8)
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Start going through that list Maggi! It wasn't me...(not that I didn't want to be there..........
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I'm getting my North Americans mixed up, Carlo. I realise now I have turned you into a hybrid of two other delegates, a question of names and places getting jumbled in what passes for my mind!
So, there is something for us both to look forward to! ;D
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Here's a lovely wee dwarf: Narcissus 'Bilbo'. I think 'Bashful' would have been more suitable as not only does it bow its head, but it blushes too.
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'Bilbo' is one of Brian Duncan's raising in Northern Ireland...... a neat little flower.... 'Bashful' was a name registered in the late 1930s to a division 2 (large Cup) white daffodil, said to be "of great substance" !
I have another daffodil, a bit bigger than 'Bilbo' but of a similar colour, perhaps more salmom in the pink... cannot remember its name... or where it came from... NOT Brian, I think any ideas? It's about 35cms high.
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I think it's a wee smasher.
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Hello,
Here some late Narcissus graellsii. This is a about 500m square with thousands of Narcissus graellsii.
The Economic Devlopmment from my country, based in urbanistic corruption destroy important surfaces every year with endemic plants like this.
Bye Bye Narcissus graellsii
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They should definitely leave them a lawn Rafa! ::)
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Working overtime today, Anthony, since Cliff entered the pun fight?
I am saddened to think of these flowers, and others, losing their homes.
Rafa, what is the tall pant, in bud in your first pic and opening pale yellow or white in your second?
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Rafa,
What a pity to see such lovely plants being lost. This is one situation where collecting bulbs from the wild would be appropriate.
Paddy
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Maggi, that plant is Rorippa sylvestris subsp. sylvestris, it's very common, but apart Narcissus graellsii there are several species linving in this fields like Orchis morio, Orchis mascula, Orchis coriophora, Serapias lingua, Serapias cordigera, Scilla verna, Allium guttatum subsp. sardoum etc...which will disapear in summer.
Paddy, I'm agree with you. I will observe this place waiting to collect seeds and to translocate all that I could to other filds far from this part.
Anthony, you are absolutely right hahahha. But don't worry my friends, I will make a seedling with 300.000, 3.000.000.000, 30.000.000.000..... seeds to restore this destroy. I will send to SRGC several millions of seeds!!!
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I did not recognise the Rorippa, I expect it to have more foliage. Your list of wonderful orchids alone in the fields would make the loss of the habitat a tragedy, though I suppose we must grant even the "weeds" their right to live, also! Is there much support for you and people like you to oppose such development ?
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I received many packets of Narcissus seed from the 1997 AGS exchange.
Here, after ten years, is the first flowering - N.bulbocodium tenuifolium.
Next year perhaps all the others will bloom.
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Ten years, eh? Just as well you have kept busy in the meantime, Diane, you could have been really bored waiting otherwise!
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10 years isn't too bad. It took 32 years for the Embothrium I imported from Hilliers to bloom.
But, getting back to bulbs from seed: I sowed Colchicum bornmuelleri and C. autumnale MESE 302 in 2000. All seeds are still sound (I dump them out to count every year or so) but all are ungerminated.
Much better success with Narcissus. N assoanus from the SRGC exchange this year is growing lustily already. I'm going to fertilize it as Ian says, and maybe these will flower in only five years.
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Hi - enclosed my last Narcissus of this year season and the only one :'(
Narcissus poeticus
Narcissus poeticus is not flowering regular in my garden. Would say every second year the blossom is stronger. This year is a total desaster even many leaves have developped but no flowers.
Any recommendations / tricks from the specialists to increase the number of flowers next year? Much more pottassum, water, bulb growth deep ect..?