Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Primula => Topic started by: johanneshoeller on April 01, 2007, 04:14:49 PM
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New Month, new page! Maggi
The next Primulas. The nameless Primulas are my own hybrids (hirsuta, villosa, auricula). All Primulas are grown from (my own) seed.
Hans
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The second run
Hans
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Lovely plants Hans. Do you make specific crosses or let the bees do the work?
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Here are pictures of:-
a young plant of Primula allionii "Nightingale" which I thought I had lost back in the dim and dank days of November but since then it has improved a lot.
the double Auricula "Lincoln Sparkler" which was bred by Derek Salt in Lincolnshire. Derek concentrates on breeding Doubles and two years ago was kind enough to give me a couple. Lincoln Sparkler seems to suit my "cultivation techniques"! wheras the other one "Fred Booley" seems to be a bit timid in flowering for me.
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Hi David
Is Lincoln Sparkler scented? I used to have something similar which had a stunning scent. I got a double dark purple auricula at the Hexham show from Timpany Nursery - will take it's pic when it opens.
Sue
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The second run
Hans
Hans, beautiful species and cultivars. Like them all.
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Hi David
Is Lincoln Sparkler scented? I used to have something similar which had a stunning scent. I got a double dark purple auricula at the Hexham show from Timpany Nursery - will take it's pic when it opens.
Sue
Sue, yes it has a slight scent.
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Here a few pictures from the greenhouse today.
The first is a young plant of Primula "Aire Waves", a Peter Lister cross of a white P. allionii form and Auricula "Blairside Yellow". Aire Waves seems to be a very popular Show plant this year and to my mind a well grown clone of it is better than P. "Broadwell Milkmaid".
The second is one of my Alpine Auricula seedlings grown from open pollinated seed. Again it is not good enough for showing but will be perfectly acceptable in the garden.
The third is one of my Self seedlings (code 09 04 07) a nice dark red flowering for the first time this year. Well worth growing on and I will see what it is like next year.
The fourth is a Blue Self "Remus". The original plant was bred in the early 1960's and has always been a good offset producer.
The fifth is another of my Alpine Auricula seedlings (code 09 04 03) a nice light red and looks to have reasonable form. The pips have only just opened and if they flatten a bit this one could well be worth keeping.
The sixth a young plant of Primula marginata "Dwarf Form". Provided that I can keep it through the Summer and next Winter this one should look good next year.
Yesterday I posted a picture of Primula allionii "Nightingale" but I have found out that "Nightingale" is a hybrid and not a form of the Species.
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David, Beautiful plants and photographs, enjoyed them!
I like the information. Thanks
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David, I let the bees do the work and some seeds are wild collected.
Hans
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At the moment the milkmaid is everywhere, and Aire Waves is popular too, and I agree it can be a stunner. I am fond of P. 'Aire Mist', another good plant which was very popular a year or two ago, but I haven't seen it this year, yet, at the shows.
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Look at the size of this flower : it is from a display of Primula polyanthus in a planter outside the local library, I pinched it last night when out with Lily to take home to measure because it looked so big!
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Approx. 75mm .....that's about three inches across in my language.
These polyanthus types do make a good display at this time of year.
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David, very nice pictures & background info. Tks.
Maggi, this polyantha flower is a "monster". ;D
Maybe nice under glass but certainly not very resistive against rain in the garden.
I don't like those "oversizes" so much.
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Armin, the giant polyanthus are outside, in raised planters provided by the local council to decorate the area at the entrance to the library. Actually, these giant flowers are very popular for this purpose and are also available in many shops to buy. If they survive in the garden, which many do, after a few years the flowers seem to get a bit smaller, but they stand quite well against the weather. Ian's Mother has quite a lot of these in her garden and they bloom well for her. I have some of the smaller flowered types, and some like the x juliae varietites that I have in troughs under the front eaves of the house, but I would not have the giant ones, they are too false looking! There is no denying the planters at the library look very cheerful, though! :D
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Maggi, thank you - I still don't like them :-*
Nurseries are full of them - polyantha & acaulis mosters. People decorate their graves here - one rainfall or late frost and they fall over and wilt.
And, my mother in law just recently presented me some which she kept a few weeks behind the window and recognised lately they were full of aphids and flies...they make good compost now ::)
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Interesting to see that mothers in law like them in Scotland and Germany!
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They have a bad taste! Everywhere ;D
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They have a bad taste!
Really? I could not eat a whole one ! ;D ::) :P
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Flowers are perfect for a delicious mixed "monster" salat.
I decided not to further comment on mother in laws tastes... :-X
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A few Auricula pictures from the greenhouse today.
The first flowered for the first time last year. I grew it from open pollinated Alpine Auricula seed and on first sight the shading on the petals was a bit patchy and more importantly it was a pin eyed plant, so no good for showing. I grew it on in any case and it has "plumped" up nicely with the possibility of three flowering stems this year. Another one that will look OK in the garden.
The second is a Red Self "Geronimo". The original plant was bred by Peter Ward in 1971. Until recently overtaken by a series of new Red Selfs Geronimo was a regular prize winner. My plant was given to me last April by Henry Pugh an eminent Auricula grower and breeder and I had hopes of maybe entering it in a Show this year but by 21 April it will probably be past its best.
The third is another Red Self "Trudy"this time a very dark red. The original was bred by Derek Telford in Huddersfield in the 1980's. In it's time "Trudy" has also been a prize winner.
The fourth is a very nice Gold Centred Alpine Auricula "Piers Telford" again bred by Derek Telford in 1991. It is well shaded and has a good form but for me this year has only three pips. Five are needed for showing. Maybe next year!
The fifth and final one is another Alpine Auricula "Mrs L Hearne" this time a light centred variety. It was bred by James Douglas in 1937 and is still going strong and un-viresed. Very nicely shaded petals but again for me this year short on pips.
In case anyone is interested I quote below a small part of the National Auricula and Primula Society Rules for Exhibitors:-
"Show, Alpine, Fancy, Striped and Double Auriculas and Gold- Laced Polyanthus (single stem) entries must not have less than five fully expanded pips except for the single Show Auriculas where three is the minimum. All other primulas, including Border Auriculas, are judged for effect......."
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'Pip' equals flower, I presume? So, what can you do to fatten them up for next year? Is there a magic food, or is it just a case of time needed?
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Yup, correct. I think the heat during last Summer combined with a virtually frost free Winter affected their growth, combined with my changing over from clay pots to plastic, together with the necessary modification to my compost recipe. No magic powder but lots of luck and hope to do better next year! :(
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David
Nice pics and plants.
I like the story behind them and Your talk about their possibillities.
Joakim
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Wow!! What stunning pics. Never seen anything like most of those (well not in the flesh anyway). Methinks you might be a bit of an auricula addict? LOL
Bring on more pics. I'd love to see your whole setup as well. Do you grow/display them all in one of those auricula theatres I see pics of?
I've had limited success so far with seed. I did get 3 seedlings from seed sent to me by Anne, but nothing yet from other seed. I am assuming that they should germinate within a few weeks or not at all? I'm not sure exactly what I did wrong and why some pots germinated and others didn't. Always something to learn!! <grin>
Wonderful to see the pics and I look forward to seeing more of them.
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Wow!! What stunning pics. Never seen anything like most of those (well not in the flesh anyway). Methinks you might be a bit of an auricula addict? LOL
Bring on more pics. I'd love to see your whole setup as well. Do you grow/display them all in one of those auricula theatres I see pics of?
I've had limited success so far with seed. I did get 3 seedlings from seed sent to me by Anne, but nothing yet from other seed. I am assuming that they should germinate within a few weeks or not at all? I'm not sure exactly what I did wrong and why some pots germinated and others didn't. Always something to learn!! <grin>
Wonderful to see the pics and I look forward to seeing more of them.
Hi Paul,
I grow about 100 Auricula plants each year of some 40 varieties, mainly Alpines and Show Selfs, but with a couple of Doubles and a few Border Auriculas thrown in. If you have read some of my previous posts you will know that most of my seed grown stuff that doesn't come up to anything like potential Show standard still gets kept and eventually gets planted out in the garden. I also grow an ever expanding range of Primulas, mainly European species and hybrids-in fact I sent you a bit of seed last year. Later on this year I will send you some Auricula seed as well.
I normally sow seed in January, top it with grit, and leave it outside open to the weather and most of what I sowed in January is through. Most of the expert Auricula breeders sow their seed fresh in June/July so that they can get new plants to a flowering stage the following March/April and then decide what to keep or chuck out.
I grow in an aluminium greenhouse (now a very cramped one!), but plants really do look the part in an Auricula Theatre, before taking them out in early May to a set of home made shelves with a perspex roof and green netting sides. I continue watering and feeding to about the end of July, and keep them on the dry side during August/early September, a little wetter in later September when it is normal to get another flush of flowers. I then aim to get them back in the greenhouse, dependant on the weather, late October/early November. Seems to work for me but I have very few plants I would rate as being up to Show standard, but, having said that the Standards laid down are quite exacting!
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Primula auricula in the wild (on very dangerous rocks) and some interesting Primulas in my garden. All are my own seedlings.
Primulas on the rocks
Primula auricula
Primula marginata
Primula marginata
Primula clusiana
Primula minima
Prmula hirsuta
Primula auricula hybrid
Hans
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As always Hans lovely pictures and lovely plants. I particularly like the two P. marginata seedlings-gorgeous
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A few more Auriculas from the greenhouse:-
The first a couple of shots of a nice Yellow Self called "Sharon Louise". The original plant was raised by Ken Bowser in 1991 from a "Brompton" and "Upton Belle" cross. A perfect flower with perfect form and if it had three more pips could have been a Show plant this year. I look forward to next year with this one.
Next are a couple of shots of one of my Alpine seedlings under code 09 04 07 flowering for the first time this year. This has good form, nicely shaded petals and is a strong grower. It will be past its best by the date of the next Show (21 April) otherwise I would have had a go with this in a seedling class.
Next is another Alpine a light centred one "Mandarin" excellent form, and as the flowers have only opened in the past couple of days they have not yet flattened. Again I have my usual problem here in Devon in that it will be past its best by Show date.
Lastly a couple of shots of another light centred Alpine "Cambodunam". This variety regularly wins prizes is well shaded and of excellent form. I ought to have put it in the fridge last week to retard it a bit but Mrs N would not have been best pleased!
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The P. auricula hybrid (last photo) was grown from seed of a P. auricula (first photo). I saw the same or a similar plant in the Austrian Alps (near Dachstein) at 1700m. There grow only auricula, clusiana and minima and the mountains are only for trained alpinists. Some friends mean it is a garden hybrid which was planted there. Could it be a natural hybrid?
Hans
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Hans it probably is a natural hybrid, P. auricula will breed with nearly all species in the Primula Auriculastrum Section.
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A very different Primula from those David is showing.
Primula maximowiczii
and our native Scottish Primrose, quite different from the european ones
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What a colour, Susan! I love Primula maximowiczii, it is such an unusual red. And the shape is stunning, I love P. tangutica, too, with that shape and dark, almost black flowers. Yummy!
Really hard to beat a primrose for charm, though, isn't it?
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Great P. maximowiczii Susan - never seen it before ! Is it easy ???
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I have some seed just showing, hope they are are as nice as Susan's.
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Yes, must be said, Susan's P. maxies are a bit FAB!
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luc,
They aren't difficult if you can grow other primulas such as rosea, viallii and candlearbra.
I don't think they are all that long lasting and you don't get much seed, but seed germinates readily.
David,
If your seed is from SRGC the chances are that it will be the same colour, that is the shade that is going about. The seedlings should grow on well and flower next year.
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Susan,
A particularly brilliant red, excellent.
Your cool conditions are the envy of those living in the south where growing primulas is not as easy as it was twenty years ago. At that time general garden conditions were good enough for primulas whereas now it is necessary to have a particularly wet part of the garden to succeed with them.
Here are some ordinary primulas from the garden this week.
Primula 'Johanna'
Same again
A bed of primula vulgaris
Same again
The IRISH primrose
Paddy
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I see that primulas are locally plentiful with you, then, Paddy!
Now, I may be remembering this quite incorrectly, so sorry if that is the case, but, I THINK... that Primula 'Johanna' was named for Henrik Zetterland's daughter. I hope you all know Henrik.... the "batman" of Gothenburg ??!! ;)
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you are right Maggie, the Primula is named after Henrik's daughter
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Here is a recently purchased primula that I am happy with. It was cheap and even had a free passanger that I also potted in a different pot. The free passanger was nothing special but I potted it anyway.
It was a good price 50 cent and even though the foliage has taken a lot of beeting it complies with the 5 pips need for a show plant.
I will see if I can self it and then spread the seeds amongst our Swedish ones to get in more of the darker ones that we like so much. The ones we have has smaller flowers due to more primula veris blood.
It also had a lovely velvet look on the fully mature flowers. I have not noticed any scent so here was most likely none.
It was the only primula they had in the place.
Hope You also like this plant
Joakim
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Joakim, it is only Auriculas that, in some cases, require five fully open pips (flowers) for show purposes. Primula hybrids, Primroses and Polyanthus are judged purely on effect and form, and difficulty of cultivation for the former.
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I think I'm getting hooked on Primulas! I want the red one!
Here is one that from one year to the next I cant remember if it is P frondosa or farinosa. My past photos show it as both. What I do know is it is getting bigger and bigger
April 6th
April 11th
April 13th
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I'm sure there will be specialists around pointing you out what ist is Mark - but whatever it is : it's a real beauty !
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Probably frondosa but there aint a lotta difference!
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David
Thanks for clarifying. Could a better grown version of that be entered in a competision? With better I meen without the foliage being broken and generallt a bit nicer but still with no name and not much known heritage/parents. Can things be appreciaated just by being pretty? Not everyone might think this one is pretty and I doubt I will put it in any contest but it would be fun to know how it is done.
Kind regards
Joakim
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This is the first of my auricula`s
one of my own open pollinated seed
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very nice sahe of greenish yellow.
Like I said earlier I need Primulas so I bought 8 new ones today at our show from our own Primula specialist Peninsula Primulas
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This is the first of my auricula`s
one of my own open pollinated seed
Nice little plant Derek and a lovely colour.
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Like I said earlier I need Primulas so I bought 8 new ones today at our show from our own Primula specialist Peninsula Primulas
Come on then TV Star are you going to show us pictures of them?
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Derek, I do like the colour and the frilly flower is very feminine. You must be pleased with it from open pollenation.
Mark, yes, pix please, and what about Show pix too??
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It was a good price 50 cent and even though the foliage has taken a lot of beeting it complies with the 5 pips need for a show plant.
Joakim, that is a nice little plant, and as it only cost 50 cents it is a very nice little plant. Are you sure you do not have any Yorkshire blood in your veins??
I think I have confused you. At Shows organised by the National Auricula and Primula Society at least five pips (open flowers) on a stem are a requirement in most of the Auricula classes, apart from seedling classes where 3 is the norm. In Primula and Hybrid Primrose and Polyanthus Classes there is no particular requirement as plants are judged for effect with difficulty in cultivation being taken into account for rarer primulas.
Just to wet your appetite here are a few pictures of plants that won prizes in the various Hybrid Primrose and Polyanthus classes at Shows last year.
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Mark, it is Primula frondosa.
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Here are two from my garden.
Primula specuicola grown rather dry in my alpine house.
And Primula fasciculata in a bog garden.
Jozef
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Is the fasiculata growing in a peat block?
Yes I know know the Primula is frondosa. Thanks. I bought another two today. Mine is a stunner but it is suffereing as it is nothing compared to those I bought today. Maybe it thinks it is about to die and does it's best
Photos of new to me later
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Primula veris now open here.
Primula elatior suffering from recent heat and todays 28°C
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Mark, yes Primula fasciculata is growing in sopping wet peat blocks, near my pond.
This bog garden is about 30 square meters. This is more than 1 peat block.
Jozef
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I must try that.
here are what I bought today. I may be a fool but time will tell. One still in bud is P. muscarioides so the photo will come later
'Kath Dryden'
latifolia cream form
marginata 'Grandiflora'
modesta var fauriae
'Silver Lace
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and about 15 flowering plugs of P. elatior
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Mark, nice plants but I'm not sure about your P. latifolia. If it is then it's a lime hater, but it could be a Primula x pubescens Primula viscosa; viscosa was the former name of Primula latifolia. (crazy mixed up plants!) Here's the leaf description for P latifolia from John Richard's "Primula"
"rather erect, bluntly and broadly spear shaped, to 18 x 5 cm, dull green, without meal but sticky-glandular, narrowing to a winged stalk about the length of the blade....."
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Nice primulas every one 8)
David I must say that some of the winning primulas looks like they are not impossible to find in gardencenters :o. They are nice but they do not seem to be impossible ;D. Maybe if I would have seen them in person I would have sen the size f flower scent texture etc. that a pic can not always show.
I love the idea that it is a pure beuty competision and that one does not need to know the background of the plant. I only knew of rules for tropical orchids and there it needs to be a named plant (I think).
Here there is an other plant that I bought for 80 cent that has a lovely colour and texture. The foliage seems to be smaller than the normal gardencenter version of vulgaris/polyanthus. Maybe it is due to the warmer climat in Portugal, but I have seen big foliage here as well so maybe the foliage will be smaller and let the flowers be more dominant. :)
Regarding my Yorkshire blood I have already admitted to having Småland blood in my veins and they make Scotts look like big spenders.
I can very seldom say no to a good deal. It is part of the plesure with gardening to buy plants to a good price. It is a matter of searching what exist around where one are. Often there is more value for money in the less famous places outside city centers.
I will gard these newly bought plants against any slug attack and see if there will be any seeds from them. These might go to Sweden to give some nice plants there as well.
Kind regards
Joakim
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A few more Auriculas from the greenhouse today:-
First another of my own seed raised Alpines under Code AS 09 04 02 with a Light Centre. This is not a good photograph so you will have to take my word for it that the petals shade from very dark blue to lighter shades on the margins. Well worth growing on to see what it is like next year.
And another, but this time a Gold Centre, under code AS 09 04 10. This has very good form and the petals are well shaded, and should flatten out well. Again, well worth persevering with.
'C W Needham'- A Light Centred Alpine originally bred in 1934 (before my time Maggi!). The petal colour tends to vary depending upon the amounts of shading and feeding the plant has had.
'Lee Paul'- A Gold Centred Alpine originally bred by Derek Telford in Huddersfield in the late 1980's. This is probably the best plant I have in my collection at the moment. It has lovely form and perfectly flat petals and if I can keep it through the Summer and next Winter and get it to provide at least five pips-then I have a Show plant.
'Sandra'- A Light Centred Alpine originally bred by Hal Cohen in 1973. The pips were a little immature today but they should flatten nicely.
'Tomboy'- a Yellow Self raised by one of the doyens of Auricula breeders, Tim Coop, in 1980 from a 'Moonglow' and 'Helen' cross. Always a fairly late flowerer, indeed last year it didn't flower at for me.
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here is what I used to own way back maybe 6 years or more
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/auriculas.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/auriculas.htm)
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Don't you have any now?
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Some pictures of perhaps the last couple of Primulas to flower in my greenhouse. Odd really because last year they were amongst the first and I thought I was going to miss out this year.
The first couple are of Primula 'Stradbrook Cheryl' a nice white but a very slow grower.
The second pair are of a plant I bought as Primula 'Linda Pope', it obviously isn't so I have to think that it is 'White Linda Pope', it does have a tell-tale pinky/lilac flush on the petals that doesn't show to well on the pictures.
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Very nice whites David !
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David, as you seem to be involved in auricula and primrose growing cirlces, can you recommend any good nurseries for old-fashioned primroses and polyanthus? I'm trying to get hold of various old juliae (pruhonica) types that I used to grow years ago, so I can do some more hybridising (had some good results in the past before a series of drought summers). I would especially like to track down (if it still exists) the old polyanthus Barrowby Gem. It was a real beauty, gorgeous scent. But I suspect it may no longer be with us. The main suppliers, Rogers of Pickering in Yorks, lost it through vine weevil attacks some years ago.
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Martin, I think some of the old varieties do exist, but rarely in Nurseries. They are often in private collections and it is surprising that quite often when they do surface they are found in Ireland.
I'm not sure whether Paddy follows this thread but it might just be worthwhile dropping him a mail on the off chance that he knows someone who might be helpful.
As far as the UK is concerned Fieldhouse Nursery, Leake Road,Gotham,Nottinghamshire,NG11 0JN tel 0115 9830278 may be worth a call. Valerie Woolley is the owner, she is very well known and respected in the Primula world and she has a wide range of contacts. She does do a modern Juliana version, originally from Jellito seed called the Bergfruhling Strain-I posted a picture of one of mine in the early part of the Primula thread.
If you like I would be perfectly happy to post something to the Yahoo Primula Group just to see if anything of use turns up?
Sorry I can't be of more help.
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David I keep forgetting to take a photo of my new ?latifolia. It does look very similar to an auricula leaf.
This is the most difficult flower to photograph. Not one is sharp focus due possibly to the shape of the flower head
P. muscarioides
I need to divide my cowslips. Do I lift the whole clump after flowering and pull it apart into single nosed plants and replant?
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Mark, the 'real' latifolia doesn't have a leaf like an Auricula, I think yours is likely to be a Primula x pubescens but nevertheless a very pretty plant.
I like your P. muscarioides, is it potted and under glass?
Cowslip splitting:- depends on the weather and where you grow them. If you have them somewhere in heavy shade and moist then they should be OK. In my garden I would leave them until late August/early September when it's a bit cooler. 23C here this afternoon.
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Thanks David. I have located some of the old primrose varieties I used to grow and that I used for crossing in the past, but there are a lot that just don't seem to be around any more. I'll try Valerie Wooley. My mother used to grow a couple of dozen double primroses and twice that many different singles, jack-in-the-greens, hose-in-hose etc. Them was the days!
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Thanks David. I have located some of the old primrose varieties I used to grow and that I used for crossing in the past, but there are a lot that just don't seem to be around any more. I'll try Valerie Wooley. My mother used to grow a couple of dozen double primroses and twice that many different singles, jack-in-the-greens, hose-in-hose etc. Them was the days!
Martin, there is a grower, called Dr Margaret Webster, who specialises in breeding hose-in-hose, jack in the green and other 'odd balls' of the primrose world who I think is based in Somerset. I don't know her personally and have only seen some of her plants at Shows. She is a Botanist or other plant scientist, but it could well be that she has used some of the very old varieties in her breeding programmes. If you are contacting Val Wooley she may know if Dr Webster sells plants and how to contact her. If she doesn't please come back to me as there is one other person I have just thought of who might be worth contacting.
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A few more Auriculas from the greenhouse (not many left to flower now!)
The first is 'Divint Dunch' a light centred Alpine with some very good form. The original plant was bred by Derek Telford of Huddersfield in 1980. Derek Telford is a 'Geordie' by birth (ie from the North Eastern part of England around Newcastle-upon-Tyne) and roughly translated from the Geordie dialect Divint Dunch means 'don't push!'
The next is another of my seed grown plants flowering for the first time this year under code AS 09 04 08. A nice Alpine Gold Centre with some nice flat petals and a good leaf form. Well worth keeping for next year.
The third is 'Barbarella' a Dark Self originally bred by Peter Ward in 1980. The parents were 'Pat' and ('Rosalind' x 'The Mikado'). Barbarella has won lots of prizes in the past but if I aspire to do so I will need to grow it much better than I have grown this speciman.
Fourth is a very good Red Self 'Scorcher' a clone given to me last year by Henry Pugh an eminent Auricula grower and breeder. Scorcher is a regular prize winner and is the best Self in my collection at present.
Fifth one of my seed grown Selfs flowering for the first time under code SS 09 04 03. A rather nice Dark Self with a good form. Next year I must be more careful with this one and try to get a more circular ring of paste. Well worth keeping.
Sixth another of my seed grown Alines flowering for the first time. Alpine Auriculas can have either a Light or a Gold Centre- this is an oddball it has both and I should really throw it out. But I can hazard a guess that if you look at my garden next Spring this plant will be in it!!
Lastly a plant I bought last year 'Eden Blue Star' which is a garden or Border Auricula. It was too small to plant out last Autumn so it has been grown under glass but will be planted out in Autumn. Note the rogue petal-I shall be interested to see if this is present next year.
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The black and red selfs look great
My cowslips are in full sun so I'll have to wait or do it when the annuals grow which will shade them
P. muscarioides is only new two weeks ago but needs to be in part shade