Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Rhododendron and other Ericaceae => Topic started by: johnw on March 10, 2009, 12:57:19 AM
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WHAT CAN WE DO AS A GROUP ON THIS MATTER?
JOHNW
A friend asked me to forward this to rhody people:
--- On Fri, 3/6/09, Maurice Wilkins <maurice@arduaine.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
From: Maurice Wilkins <maurice@arduaine.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Bad news
Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 6:30 PM
I had some astonishing news this afternoon. I knew I was
expecting a visit from my old boss, now the Director of
Properties and Visitor Services, but I didn't expect
that he would have driven down from Glasgow to tell me that
the Trust's Board of Governers had announced that
Arduaine would be closed, one of many changes under the
severe cost-cutting that the Trust has to make. It seems so
totally counter-productive in so many ways. This could mean
that they have considered locking the gate and walking away!
It seems unbelievable that this has even been thought about,
but it was announced on the news tonight - have a look at
this link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7929328.stm
So now we have a fight on our hands! I never thought it
would come to this - if the garden is closed then I doubt if
it will ever open again. Apart from the disaster of losing
the garden I'll lose my job and home though I would have
had to leave at some point, I know. But I would want to go
knowing the the future of the garden was assured! I'm
pretty sure that there will be a huge amount of publicity
and I'm going to make sure that as many people around
the world know about it! We have until the end of April to
convince them otherwise, but it's obviously being looked
at in a purely economic sense! We have our garden committee
meeting on Monday so all hell will break loose then! Do tell
as many people as you can - spread the word if you think it
would help please!
More as it comes out!
Maurice.
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JOHNW
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That's really bad.
We as a group were there 2 years ago (see 'Perth group go camping' somewhere on the forum )and it was really looking good, the best I have seen it. I see from the link that they are also planning to close the visitor centre at Ben Lawers, does that mean that mean they are going to lose the ranger? Last year he spoke at one of our meetings, telling us about the replanting etc.
Susan
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The National Trust for Scotland has announced a large number of closures or drastic revisions of opening hours, access, etc for many of its properties. For instance, Haddo House in Aberdeenshire, a hugely popular visitor attraction with over a quarter of a million visitors a year is being closed except for functions and private tours. The grounds will remain open, but for how long? Other local Trust Gardens will be greatly affected also.
What a nonsense! These places will need to be upkept in any event or the Trust is failingin its duty and the cost savings will be minimal at the end of the process.... there are , in my opinion, as in other institutions and businesses, far too many managers , soaking up the revenue to little effect.
If the Trust want to combat financial difficulties I believe they would be better employed reducing admission costs and so increasing the opportunity for ordinary people to afford to visit these places and then increased visitor numbers would make a great contribution. When people cannot afford to use a facility at the prices charged, is it not common sense to drop that price? I am only too aware of the number who cannot afford the Trust membership, or admission prices, and I do believe that there is a bigger audience for Trust properties out there ....and in the current credit crunch there could be a greater demand for local attractions.
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I thought the whole raison d'etre of The National Trust and The National Trust for Scotland was to keep special gardens and houses open and active?
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Well, indeed, David, that's what we all thought!
Including the Marquess of Aberdeen, whose family gave Haddo House to the Trust.... he is LIVID! He's just been on the radio, bemoaning the mismanagement and attitude of the Trust .
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Absolutely shocking news ! Arduaine is one of the best Rhododendron gardens in the country and its impending closure would be a disaster. I agree what Maggi says about pricing. We were at Culzean yesterday and I noticed that it was £20.00 for a family ticket to the gardens and almost double that if you wanted to go into the castle. To my surprise, they had a member of staff at the barrier collecting admission charges. This usually only happens at weekends in the winter season. I thought that this was a bit of a cheek considering the shops, toilets, restaurants and Castle are closed until Easter.
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Has anyone been watching the series on BBC4 about Sissinghurst?
'A delightful look at the beautiful estate and gardens of Sissinghurst in Kent. Shaped by the poet and gardener Vita Sackville-West and her husband Harold Nicolson in the 1930s, the estate is now owned by the National Trust. But Sackville-West’s grandson, the author Adam Nicolson and his wife, the food writer Sarah Raven, have now been allowed back to live there with their family.'
It's relevance to this thread is that Sarah Raven has been trying to change the menu in the cafe using fruit & veg produced on the estate. At one meeting between the National Trust management and Sarah Raven, the voice over said it was the 63rd meeting so far, and the cafe still wasn't serving the new recipes.
The head chef refused to go to the meeting, because he said they took 3 hours to decide what could be decided in 2 minutes!
63 meetings with several managers present, it is easy to see where the money goes.
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I understand that the managers have to be many and well paid if they go into details in all the runnings of the trust to the degree of chosing the menues ::) ::) :o :o
I would say that that would be decided by the one in charge of that park or the head chef and not the whole trustee.
Hope the ones paying (members of the trust and ticket holders) will do some changes on the board since there must be some democratic governing or..... must there not?
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Re the Sissinghurst debacle - in a time when whole nations are trying - usually in vain - to up the ante for their citizens' health and well-being, thus lowering the huge cost of public health systems (if for no better reason) the National Trust should surely have embraced Ms Raven's plan with enthusiasm. As said above, it's easy to see where the money goes. So far as I can see, NO organisation, once it establishes its own bureaucracy, runs profitably or even to a break even budget. Whether it's a govt dept, a hospital board a charitable trust or whatever, the AIMS of that organisation get lost in the need to keep so many employed in the paper shuffling dept. If all administrative staff numbers were cut by 75 % the work would still be done and the aims of the organisation would be achieved properly, to the benefit of all.
I've not been to Arduaine but it certainly sounds, from those who have, that its closure will be a great shame, and why, after all, do the National Trust and NTS exist, except to keep such places up and running? If they still have to do this, surely closing the place depletes income entirely.
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Hi to all, this intended closure of Arduaine gardens is indeed a disaster, as one of the best Rhododendron gardes we know and the last refuge to some of the most mature specimens tended with love and care. I urge every forum member to register a protest here on this forum and we will print all the replies and send to The Trust ( some trust) We have little time but every effort must be made to save this garden, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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I rather think that a less gentlemanly course of action may be necessary in order to provoke the National Trust for Scotland into reconsidering their decision. Surely, within the organisations in Scotland interested in gardening and environmental issues, there is someone well versed in appropriate legal issues, who would be prepared to take on a judicial review, or similar, of the Trust's intentions?
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I visited Arduaine 3 or 4 years ago and since then, it is high on my list for a "revisit" the very next time I can come to Scotland.
I would be very sorry and upset to find a closed gate ! :'(
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I understand that most of the membership subscriptions for NTS go to paying for the upkeep of the ivory tower HQ and its staff. By and large the properties have to generate a lot of their own income for normal running costs. In order to reduce expenditure they need to get rid of a few fat cats from the top, without massive golden handshakes and pensions.
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My God - is it that bad David ?
For a minute I thought you were discussing a bank... :-X
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Hi to all, this intended closure of Arduaine gardens is indeed a disaster, as one of the best Rhododendron gardes we know and the last refuge to some of the most mature specimens tended with love and care. I urge every forum member to register a protest here on this forum and we will print all the replies and send to The Trust ( some trust) We have little time but every effort must be made to save this garden, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
Ian - So let's get going. Should members send a PM to you or Maggi as they should include their full names and address?
johnw
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http://www.nts.org.uk/News/# ...this page from the NTS website 6th March 2009, quoted here....
"The National Trust for Scotland today proposed changes to eleven of its 130 built or countryside properties in light of yesterday’s announcement of cost saving measures.
The charity proposes to make changes to, and in some cases have alternative uses for, these loss-making visited properties in 2009/10 which it is anticipated may result in closure, or partial closure, to the general public for some, unless alternative funding can be secured.
The properties it is anticipated may be affected are theDavid Livingstone Centre, Blantyre; Hill of Tarvit Mansion House, Cupar; Kellie Castle; Leith Hall; Hutchesons’ Hall; Haddo House;
Barry Mill; Hugh Miller’s Cottage; Arduaine; Inveresk Garden and Ben Lawers Mountain Visitor Centre.[ /color]
The Trust anticipates that it will no longer manage the David Livingstone Centre which will be returned to its Trustees unless the full deficit of the property is funded externally. It is proposed to close the Hill of Tarvit Mansion House in Fife and let the property to a suitable tenant. However the gardens and estate would be maintained and remain open to the public.
The Trust proposes the closure to visitors of Leith Hall House and the conversion of the property into permanent residential use to meet the cost of managing the estate and garden, which will remain open to the public.
External funding or sponsorship will be sought for Barry Mill in Angus. However if this is not achieved, the charity anticipates that it will be closed. Similarly, alternative ways of funding Hugh Miller’s Cottage in Cromarty will be examined to avoid closure.
It is also proposed that in the future Kellie Castle in Fife be operated by local volunteers if the castle’s deficit can be resolved. If this cannot be achieved the Trust anticipates the closure of the castle to visitors, with the gardens remaining open to the public.
Amongst the Trust’s countryside and garden properties, it is proposed to close Arduaine and Inveresk Garden and the Mountain Visitor Centre at Ben Lawers. The charity has proposed that Haddo House changes focus to specialise solely on functions, events and pre-booked tours. The shop, tearoom and gardens would remain open to the public, in conjunction with the country park. Finally it is anticipated that Hutchesons’ Hall in Glasgow will be let to a suitable long term tenant.
Commenting on today’s proposals, Kate Mavor, Chief Executive of the National Trust for Scotland said,
“We are making some difficult decisions today about some of our properties that are making a loss as part of our overall cost saving programme.
“We will make every effort to work with our staff and external partners to minimise the changes to these properties. Our members and supporters can rest assured that we will only propose closure, or in the case of the David Livingstone Centre, relinquish management of a property, if it is absolutely necessary.
“However the Trust is firm in its belief that doing nothing about the affects of the economic downturn is simply not an option.”
So, you can see that it is not only the treasure that is Arduaine that is at risk here!
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From Today's issue of Horticulture News Daily........
"Trust forced to shut properties
Horticulture Week
13 March 2009
Arduaine Garden in Argyll and Inveresk Lodge Garden in East Lothian face closure as owner the National Trust for Scotland (NTS) embarks on a cost-cutting programme that threatens over 90 jobs in total.
Arduaine, noted for its Rhododendron collection, has four horticultural staff, while Inveresk Lodge Garden has one. A final decision on their fate is expected by late spring. Elsewhere, though, gardens will escape the axe. The Hill of Tarvit Mansion House in Fife is likely to be let to a tenant while the 16ha grounds remain open to the public.
Likewise, the sale of Leith Hall House in Aberdeenshire has been proposed, with the 2ha garden and wider 110ha estate remaining under NTS management.
A similar plan has been proposed for the organic walled garden at Fife's Kellie Castle, as the NTS hands control of the castle itself to local volunteers.
Haddo House gardens in Aberdeenshire will also remain open, while the house is restricted to functions, events and pre-booked tours."
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Has anyone been watching the series on BBC4 about Sissinghurst?
'A delightful look at the beautiful estate and gardens of Sissinghurst in Kent. Shaped by the poet and gardener Vita Sackville-West and her husband Harold Nicolson in the 1930s, the estate is now owned by the National Trust. But Sackville-West’s grandson, the author Adam Nicolson and his wife, the food writer Sarah Raven, have now been allowed back to live there with their family.'
It's relevance to this thread is that Sarah Raven has been trying to change the menu in the cafe using fruit & veg produced on the estate. At one meeting between the National Trust management and Sarah Raven, the voice over said it was the 63rd meeting so far, and the cafe still wasn't serving the new recipes.
The head chef refused to go to the meeting, because he said they took 3 hours to decide what could be decided in 2 minutes!
63 meetings with several managers present, it is easy to see where the money goes.
I watched a couple of these programs which were complete rubbish and it seemed to me the only person with a brain was the cook. If the restaurant is full every day and selling 100,000 meals a year he must be doing something right.When the Japanese stop coming and the National Trust is left with lots of credit crunched pensioners who are tight as they come they will have to get real and charge reasonable prices.
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I stand to be corrected, but it is my understanding that the NTS holds its properties "in perpetuity" for the nation under its establishment Act and it may not dispose of its assets without parliamentary authority (i.e. by means of legislation in the Scottish Parlaiment). The NTS could of course put the properties into abeyance or to other purposes which wouldnot constitute disposal. I'm pretty sure that the NTS could be judicially reviewed if it were to be acting against its purposes if for instance it were considered to be acting negligently.
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I see 90 jobs may go. I'd put a couple of bob on none being head office jobs!
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I see 90 jobs may go. I'd put a couple of bob on none being head office jobs!
There are many people at the Head Office whose jobs are included in this latest round of redundancy threats. Most of them are extremely dedicated and poorly paid, and plenty of then have given their working lives to the Trust and Scotland's heritage. Please remember that these staff include administration, education, conservation, etc. Yes the idiots at the top probably won't be included in this, but not all HQ staff are to blame.
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I see 90 jobs may go. I'd put a couple of bob on none being head office jobs!
There are many people at the Head Office whose jobs are included in this latest round of redundancy threats. Most of them are extremely dedicated and poorly paid, and plenty of then have given their working lives to the Trust and Scotland's heritage. Please remember that these staff include administration, education, conservation, etc. Yes the idiots at the top probably won't be included in this, but not all HQ staff are to blame.
In which case, I apologise profusely. I was, of course, referring to those who in any other context - corporates, banks, insurance cos and of course, govt, would be clinging on for dear life or at worst, accepting huge golden handshakes. You can't blame me for some cynicism. But I acknowledge freely that I know little of the National Trust's or National Trust's for Scotland particular circumstances.
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Welcome "exntsemployee" .... and our sympathies to you. :(
You are correct, of course, there will be plenty innocent hardworking souls who will also face losing their livelihood in this kerfuffle.
Whole thing is a nightmare for the employees and for the future of the Trust ,too. It has long been my belief that entrance charges are a deterrent to visitors and how long can the Trust expect to keep its core membership paying their subscriptions if the number of properties to which they have access is severly limited? ???
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Hi, exntsemployee, sorry if we offended. By 'head office' I certainly meant Boardroom and the offices with three inch thick shagpile on the floor! I used to be a 'coalface' worker within my own organisation and I know the difference. In this case head office was a figure of speech.
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Don't worry about it. I realise what people are meaning. As David Shaw says, it's really just a figure of speech. I just wanted to remind people that it's tough for the head office staff too.
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I have great sympathy for all the NTS staff, whether they work at head office or in one of the properties. That said I am totally unimpressed with the high hedrians who made the decision several years ago that every NTS property has to wash its own face... why do we pay a considerable membership fee to the NTS if none of it goes to help support the properties?
Well we don't anymore we decided to stop being members when we discovered that there were hardly any paid workers at Brodie Castle (because they could not afford to employ them) and the volunteers had to have inductions courses from NTS central in what to do and how to behave. The 24th Brodie of Brodie , or more probably his head gardener, became interested in daffodil cultivars and between 1899 - 1942 created a huge number of them. Until around 5 years ago the whole of the walled garden was full to the gunnels with every cultivar he had propagated. Now there is a miserable little bed at the side of the castle with a few examples of each of the cultivars, the walled garden is down to grass, and there is no hope of ever bringing those bulbs back into the commercial sector.
Oops - perhaps this should have gone into 'Moan, moan get it off your chest'!
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You may be interested to follow this course......
Received from Arduaine Garden Action Group.........
Please help us to keep Arduaine Garden open!
The National Trust for Scotland is proposing to close Arduaine Garden, near Kilmelford, as part of essential cost-cutting measures throughout Trust properties.
An ‘Arduaine Garden Action Group’ has been set up in an attempt to persuade the Trust to find a way to save this wonderful garden. You can help by signing the form below to show your support. If you would like to be kept informed of progress, please add your address (preferably email) in the space provided, and return to Rick Potter, The Old Cottage, Arduaine, PA34 4XQ.
Thank you very much.
Send Rick these details.....
NAME SIGNATURE Location/NTS Membership No. EMAIL ADDRESS
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SAVED - at least for a year. The BBC reports that fundraising has produced enough cash to keep the garden open for another year. Well done. Lets hope that a more structured approach to NTS properties can be reached in the next twelve months so that we do not reach this silly position again.