Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: Hans A. on January 13, 2009, 02:16:47 PM
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The first Sternbergia started to flower - the white one: Sternbergia candida
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Very nice Hans. Which cyclamen is that & what are the red berries?
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Thanks Gerry - its Cyclamen hederifolium (a bit to weedy ::)) and Ruscus aculeatus.
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Just beautiful, Hans!
It seems S. candida feels at home outside in Mallorca!
Gerd
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Very pretty Hans.
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Very nice Hans good to see it growing outside.
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The first Sternbergia started to flower - the white one: Sternbergia candida
Hi Hans,
can you tell us how you grow this one? I've only managed to flower it once and I wonder now if it is too hot where it is. Yours look nicely shaded.
cheers
fermi
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Yes - it seems to feel like home here. :D
@ Fermi, this species and also St. fischeriana grow in difference to the other species in the (light) shadow of shrubs or stones in a heavy limesoil in my garden – cannot say if they grow in nature in the same way as the few pictures of them taken in habitat (for example from Oleg Polunin) normally just show the flowers – but if I remember well in literature it is mentioned to grow together with Cedrus libani.
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I have Sternbergia fischeriana, but no flowers this year.
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Yes - it seems to feel like home here. :D
@ Fermi, this species and also St. fischeriana grow in difference to the other species in the (light) shadow of shrubs or stones in a heavy limesoil in my garden – cannot say if they grow in nature in the same way as the few pictures of them taken in habitat (for example from Oleg Polunin) normally just show the flowers – but if I remember well in literature it is mentioned to grow together with Cedrus libani.
I grow S. candida, along with other sternbergias, planted out in a S facing, permanently covered bulb frame which is kept completely dry in summer. Although a few of my plants flower regularly I would not describe them as free-flowering under these conditions & I have wondered whether a cooler situation might be better. The other sternbergias flower freely.
I recently discovered this site -
http://www.cyclamen.org/cse97Tsit.htm
which records Cyclamen Society Expeditions. It gives a clue as to how the sternbergia grows in nature.
"97/10T
21/04/97 Mugla province. Mendes Dag, near Fethiye. Alt. 1440m. Shade: 100%; Aspect: North; Slope: 10-90°; Soil pH: 8.3; Soil type: Rich red soil over limestone. North facing cliffs and slopes thinly covered by mainly Cedrus libani. Moist soil in crevices, on ledges and under Cedar. Heavy soil, humus rich. A large population.
Cyclamen trochopteranthum growing with: Phlomis fruticosa, Quercus coccifera, Colchicum macrophyllum, Sternbergia candida, Chionodoxa forbesii, Cedrus libani, Juniperus foetidissima, Gagea sp., Corydalis ?wendelboi "
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Moist soil in crevices, on ledges and under Cedar. Heavy soil, humus rich.
Telling info, that, indeed, Gerry.
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Thanks Gerry - so I am not growing them to wrong and I am glad my memory (still) does not fail ;) - once tried to grow one bulb in a sunnier position, but it did not like it, so I planted it back in my shadier part of the garden.
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Thanks Gerry - so I am not growing them to wrong and I am glad my memory (still) does not fail ;) - once tried to grow one bulb in a sunnier position, but it did not like it, so I planted it back in my shadier part of the garden.
I guess I'd better shift mine this weekend!
cheers
femi
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Two spring flowering Sternbergia today:
Sternbergia fischeriana from S-Turkey and Syria
`` candida from SW-Turkey
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Dirk
Nice to see Sternbergias in February.
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Dirk
Nice to see Sternbergias in February.
Yes, very unusual !
Gerd
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Not current but another of my scanned slides of Stenbergia lutea from Lesvos
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Dirk
Nice to see Sternbergias in February.
Yes, very unusual !
Gerd
S. candida is in flower here too. As soon we have a bit of sun I'll attempt a photo & post.
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My Sternbergia fischeriana from PC is just leaves this year. :( Thank you for posting a pic Dirk. ;D Nice to see what I should have got. ::) Not tried candida yet.
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Hi ,
my both spring flowering Sternbergia's ( fischeriana + candida ) have also only leaves in this year :'( :'( :'(
Hans
P.S. maybe to long cold in my bulbframe !
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>:( same for me...
Only leaves, no sign of flowers !
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I have only flowered my S. candida once in fifteen years and was totally dissapointed with it. I think it is too cool and wet here.
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My S. candida have started to get seedpods - as it did the last year - hope this time there will be a seed inside... ::)
(the plants in flower: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2940.0 )
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Great Hans !
I've sown some seeds of this sp. last august but still no sign of germination !
I hope next spring ::)
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Sternbergia candida
Only three flowers this year. I think there were more in '08.
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Since this year, I grow candida and fischerian outdoors in the rockgarden. I see only the top of the leaves and hope flowers. They are hardy at -11°C this wnter
Dom
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Since this year, I grow candida and fischerian outdoors in the rockgarden. I see only the top of the leaves and hope flowers. They are hardy at -11°C this wnter
Dom
Dom - it's very interesting that you can grow them outside. I hope you get some flowers - do tell us.
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Here is Sternbergia candida - photographed today in Erich Pasche's greenhouse
Gerd
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Hello,
now all the snow has gone here, but there is some new in advance!
Sternbergia candida just starts to flower here:
All the best from Austria
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Herbert,
These S. candida are doing very well. Is it normal with so many flowers? I had the impression that flowering were difficult.
Poul
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Poul,
I have no problem with flowering them. I feed them heavily and give a dry summer rest
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And while your Sternbergia candida are flowering over there..... here in Australia the S. lutea are flowering for us. Some lovely splashes of gold are appearing in my garden now, with lots more to come I hope. Lovely to see the S. candida, something I have tried once and lost to rot unfortunately. Beautiful looking flowers on them by the look of it. Great to see them doing so well and flowering so heavily. 8)
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Flowering now as I mentioned...... Sternbergia lutea.
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Flowering now as I mentioned...... Sternbergia lutea.
As well as S. sicula,
[attachthumb=1]
cheers
fermi
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My first Sternbergia in flower this year. 3 days earlier than last year.
Poul
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A week later it is much prettier.
And Sternbergia lutea follows soon.
Poul
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Sternbergia sicula
From a collection made by John Marr (JRM 3186/75) at Dodona. I find this to be the most reliable form of S. sicula that I grow.After a very poor summer, other forms from further S in the range of the species show no sign of flowering.
(unfortunately, my camera is not too good with yellow).
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Sternbergia sicula
From a collection made by John Marr (JRM 3186/75) at Dodona. I find this to be the most reliable form of S. sicula that I grow.After a very poor summer, other forms from further S in the range of the species show no sign of flowering.
(unfortunately, my camera is not too good with yellow).
Great sicula, Gerry. If all these flowerbuds are formed in a bad summer, there must be a tremendous number after a good summer!
My Sternbergia under glass continue flowering.
1. Part of my bulbframe. The Scillas are shooting leaves, and the Sternbergias have flowers.
2. and 3. St. sicula from Korfu top of Pantokrator
4. and 5. St. greuteriana
6. St. lutea
Outside I have seen the first flowerbuds of sicula Dodona Gold and lutea.
Poul
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Lovely Sternbergias Gerry and Poul. I have never had any success with them, but thanks to Anthony I have a pot of S.sicula in the greenhouse that are showing some very healthy leaves. I have high hopes.
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You are not the only one David. We have two pots of lovely foliage S. luteum and S. siculum, they come up every year. We know they do flower because they were in flower when they were given to us but since then nothing. I'm all for chucking them out but Brian says 'Oh ye of little faith'. :-X
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Must be due a touch of the magic white powder Shelagh, and in case the FBI is watching I mean Sulphate of Potash ;D
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Shelagh and David,
I have success with Sternbergia lutea and sicula in my garden, but they require a warm sunny place and a fertile soil to flower well.
Feeding with bone meal and sulphate of potash give good results.
The photo is from last year. The wall is south facing. Here they performs very well.
I grow them in pots too (under glass). The roots goes deep, so in general I use rather large pots. They like to be crowded, but then heavy feeding is necessary. Sometimes when I only have few bulbs I place them among 'dummy bulbs' of limestone.
Last year I have tried 11 cm pots for sicula, greuteriana and colchiciflora. (The pots you see in post #22) Until now it seems OK.
Poul
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Here is a strange Sternbergia. ;)
Poul
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My Sternbergia under glass continue flowering.
Those are very well grown. Please describe the soil mix you use, preferably in excruciating detail so those of us who live in far away places have some chance of mixing something that works equally well.
I have for long had a nagging idea that the mix I use for pretty much everything just isn't right for Mediterranean bulbs, so I'm especially curious about pH, how gritty the mix is, what kind of grit and soil you use, nutrient levels, any additives.
PS: I am interested to see you using square pots; few gardeners do in these larger sizes. I switched to square "one gallon" pots (really 2.5 liters) roughly 20 years ago, and any round pots that come in with nursery stock are quickly recycled. I managed to get a really good deal on some hundreds of used square pots and guard them very carefully! My coldframes hold each a nice tight array of square pots 6×9, 54 pots per frame.
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David
Friends gave me some bulbs of Sternbergia lutea a few years ago and advised me to plant in the hottest part of my garden. In full sun they perform well every year and have to be split up every 2 - 3 years. I give a top dressing of bone meal, if I remember.
Mike
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Among all of you successful sternbergia growers, I'm curious as to the coldest zone in which the hardiest species is known to survive.
Herbert, it seems you might have the coldest climate of those who have responded here so far - what zone are you in?
Sternbergia lutea is often offered here in fall at garden centers (but then, so are a few other things that have next to no chance of survival). I've tried it a few times over the years, but have yet to have one survive, hence my questions.
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I hold the S.lutea under a fir, the slid winter I have had stung less ten c., for the others sp. I do not trust myself
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Hi, Alessandro. Thank you for the response. So, that would be -10 degrees Celsius?
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My Sternbergia under glass continue flowering.
Those are very well grown. Please describe the soil mix you use, preferably in excruciating detail so those of us who live in far away places have some chance of mixing something that works equally well.
I have for long had a nagging idea that the mix I use for pretty much everything just isn't right for Mediterranean bulbs, so I'm especially curious about pH, how gritty the mix is, what kind of grit and soil you use, nutrient levels, any additives.
PS: I am interested to see you using square pots; few gardeners do in these larger sizes. I switched to square "one gallon" pots (really 2.5 liters) roughly 20 years ago, and any round pots that come in with nursery stock are quickly recycled. I managed to get a really good deal on some hundreds of used square pots and guard them very carefully! My coldframes hold each a nice tight array of square pots 6×9, 54 pots per frame.
I use basically the compost Ian Young recommend: 2 part loam, 2 part grit and one part leaf compost. As I live close to the see I have a good free supply of sea grit. It is not sharp, but has some broken shells. Grit size is 2-6 mm. (I test the drainage, and if the water not soaks fast enough I add some more grit.) To this I add some bone meal and for Sternbergia some lime. PH is about 7.5
Poul
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Hi, Alessandro. Thank you for the response. So, that would be -10 degrees Celsius?
Exact, in my zone the winter climate is much humid
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Among all of you successful sternbergia growers, I'm curious as to the coldest zone in which the hardiest species is known to survive.
Herbert, it seems you might have the coldest climate of those who have responded here so far - what zone are you in?
Sternbergia lutea is often offered here in fall at garden centers (but then, so are a few other things that have next to no chance of survival). I've tried it a few times over the years, but have yet to have one survive, hence my questions.
St. lutea can survive in cold areas. I grow mine in open garden, many of them unprotected. They have survived -22 degrees without snow cover.
But the problem is flowering. If too cold there will only be leaves. To flower well, they require a hot, dry summer bake. Try them at a south facing wall.
Poul
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Ian has been trying them higher than before in the pot, so they heat up better.....not in flower yet, but some more buds showing than usual, we think. :D
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Lori = S. lutea never flowers here except when first purchased. It survives a few years and peters out here in Zone 6. It is not hot enough for them in the summer and the winters are either too wet or cold.
johnw
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I don't think the soil mix is particularly important for Sternbergias - any old bulb mix will do. What is important in my experience is good feeding & very hot conditions during dormancy (& I mean VERY HOT). Given less than ideal conditions, some forms flower more readily than others. I find the John Marr form of S.sicula, which I pictured, to be pretty reliable & I would imagine 'Dodona Gold' to be similar since it comes from a collection made in the same area. On the other hand, S. sicula 'Arcadian Sun' - from a collection made in the Peloponnese - seems to require more heat than it in got my garden this year despite being planted out under glass in a south-facing site.
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Lori,
I suggest I garden around hardiness zones 5 to 6. But usually we have quite hot summers with many days around 30C - so a good summer baking is no problem for the sternbergias here.
Sicula from Corfu is in full flower, but little else noow; I think they are waiting for more rain!
all the best from Linz
Herbert
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First of mine in flower a Sternbergia grueteriana from Melvyn. No sighn of any others yet but I only watered five days ago.
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First of mine in flower a Sternbergia grueteriana from Melvyn. No sighn of any others yet but I only watered five days ago.
Nice plant, Tony!
Here is my Sternbergia greuteriana - although according the petal width
close to Sternbergia lutea/sicula.
The second one is Sternbergia sicula Dodona Gold.
Gerd
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One reason to regret the demise of Woolworths is that they were a good source of bulbs. They were unwittingly selling Cyclamen mirabile ( among other species) as C. hederifolium and packs of Sternbergia which were descibed as 'from Turkey'. I bought some packs of this Sternbergia lutea which have flowered well in the garden ever since.
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One reason to regret the demise of Woolworths is that they were a good source of bulbs.
You have a good memory Melvyn since it is many years since Woolworths were a good source of bulbs. In my garden all the Galanthus nivalis & various forms of Chionodoxa & Crocus came from them though I never managed to establish their dried cyclamen. Innocents that we were, it was great fun visiting the stores in Autumn to see what was new - all wild collected I fear.
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One reason to regret the demise of Woolworths is that they were a good source of bulbs.
You have a good memory Melvyn since it is many years since Woolworths were a good source of bulbs. In my garden all the Galanthus nivalis & various forms of Chionodoxa & Crocus came from them though I never managed to establish their dried cyclamen. Innocents that we were, it was great fun visiting the stores in Autumn to see what was new - all wild collected I fear.
I bought from Woolworths too for many years and always found their bulbs excellent but you had me rattled about stock from the wild so I looked through my tin of labels and was pleased to see they were from cultivated stock grown in Holland :) An enterprising manageress in the UK bought the Woolies she worked in and is adding other stores and employing the original staff - renamed it is a great success - maybe they will reintroduce a bulb section ::)
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I still have one Cyclamen mirabile bought from Woolworths, late 70s or early 80s. I remember having one or maybe two dozen Cyclamen hederifolium, some with interesting leaves, growing in trays. I had reasonable success getting them started in the greenhouse. Unfortunately they all died in a severe cold spell in the winter 1983-84. I lost most of my Cyclamen then but one of the three mirabile survived and is still lingering on.
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One day it could be a collectors item Roma ;)
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In the garden St. sicula Dodona Gold has started flowering.
Poul
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Sternbergia in flower today.
1. S. lutea from Sparta.
2. S. lutea from Corfu.
3. S. sicula from Oros Idi Crete.
4. S. grueteriana from Aradena Gorge Crete.
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Very impressive Sternbergia Melvyn. The variation is fascinating. S. sicula from Oros Idi Crete looks very close to S. greuteriana; do the leaves differ? Are these plants growing in the open garden?
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What sternbergia is this? The bulb probably came from Avon Bulbs 15-20 years ago, disappeared, but last fall came up and flowered: a total surprise! I divided it last fall after noting that it seemed to have clumped up nicely, and this year have 10 bulbs that are flowering or in bud, and another 8 or so not flowering.
Unfortunately, I have not retained any Avon catalogs nor any record of my purchases from them.
The leaves are narrow and have a pale stripe down the middle reminiscent of Galanthus reginae-olgae.
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According leaves and petals shape they are Sternbergia sicula.
Gerd
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I will say Sternbergia sicula too.
Poul
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Here is a strange Sternbergia.
Poul
This is not a Sternbergia, I was teasing.
It is Sisyrinchium californicum, but the flower has some similarities with Sternbergia.
See the pic in post #27.
Poul
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Rodger - I agree with Gerd & Poul, S.sicula.
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Very impressive Sternbergia Melvyn. The variation is fascinating. S. sicula from Oros Idi Crete looks very close to S. greuteriana; do the leaves differ? Are these plants growing in the open garden?
I appreciate that its difficult to tell the size of the flowers from a photograph so I've just been to measure them. The Sternbergia sicula from Oros Idi has a petal length of 30mm and a width of 8mm whereas the S. grueteriana has a petal length of 25mm but only 4mm wide, the leaves when they emerge are much narrower on the S. grueteriana and it is generally smaller in all its parts.All of the plants photographed were growing under glass although I think they would all grow ok outside here in Surrey.
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Thanks for the info Melvyn. Although Sternbergias will grow in the open garden here in Brighton they will not flower, even in a S-facing raised bed.
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Thanks for the info Melvyn. Although Sternbergias will grow in the open garden here in Brighton they will not flower, even in a S-facing raised bed.
Gerry, have you tried St. lutea Autumn Gold or St. colchiciflora? They should flower in the open garden in Brighton. I have a form of lutea, which have flowered every year since 1993 in the open garden in Denmark. And I believe that the climate in Brigton is much warmer than in Denmark (climate zone 7).
Poul
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Gerry, have you tried St. lutea Autumn Gold or St. colchiciflora? They should flower in the open garden in Brighton. I have a form of lutea, which have flowered every year since 1993 in the open garden in Denmark. And I believe that the climate in Brigton is much warmer than in Denmark (climate zone 7).
Poul
Poul - I tried to get S. lutea 'Autumn Gold' from 'Rare Plants' this year but was told that it was not available. Next year maybe. I have tried ordinary 'garden centre' S . lutea which grows but does not flower. I have very heavy clay soil - maybe this is a problem?
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Gerry, have you tried St. lutea Autumn Gold or St. colchiciflora? They should flower in the open garden in Brighton. I have a form of lutea, which have flowered every year since 1993 in the open garden in Denmark. And I believe that the climate in Brigton is much warmer than in Denmark (climate zone 7).
Poul
Poul - I tried to get S. lutea 'Autumn Gold' from 'Rare Plants' this year but was told that it was not available. Next year maybe. I have tried ordinary 'garden centre' S . lutea which grows but does not flower. I have very heavy clay soil - maybe this is a problem?
Gerry, I have also bought the 'garden form' of lutea and these are not floriferous in Denmark. In average 1 out of 6 bulbs flowers. I have sandy soil in my garden, where I have most of my Sternbergias. I have a summer residence too where I have planted some lutea. There the soil is heavy clay, but they grow well and flower about 2 weeks earlier.
Poul
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Gerry, I have also bought the 'garden form' of lutea and these are not floriferous in Denmark. In average 1 out of 6 bulbs flowers. I have sandy soil in my garden, where I have most of my Sternbergias. I have a summer residence too where I have planted some lutea. There the soil is heavy clay, but they grow well and flower about 2 weeks earlier.
Poul
Poul, this is an interesting observation! Do I get this right - Your Sternbergia lutea in a sandy soil are shy flowering and those in heavy clay are earlier and have more flowers?
Are there some other differences between the two sites which might have an influence to flower formation (more sunlight, sloping, etc.)?
Gerd
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My first Sternbergia for this autumn,
Sternbergia clusiana from S-Turkey, the best and largest species
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Gerry, I have also bought the 'garden form' of lutea and these are not floriferous in Denmark. In average 1 out of 6 bulbs flowers. I have sandy soil in my garden, where I have most of my Sternbergias. I have a summer residence too where I have planted some lutea. There the soil is heavy clay, but they grow well and flower about 2 weeks earlier.
The difference may be nothing more than differing nutrient levels. Sandy soils tend to be lean and impoverished; bulbs which require a lot of nourishment to build themselves up (most do) often do better in a nutrient-retentive clay soil.
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Wow, that is beautiful Dirk, did you grow it from seed?
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My first Sternbergia for this autumn,
Sternbergia clusiana from S-Turkey, the best and largest species
Dirk - please tell us how to flower this species. I have had a bulb for nearly 10 years & have never seen a flower.
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Gerry, I have also bought the 'garden form' of lutea and these are not floriferous in Denmark. In average 1 out of 6 bulbs flowers. I have sandy soil in my garden, where I have most of my Sternbergias. I have a summer residence too where I have planted some lutea. There the soil is heavy clay, but they grow well and flower about 2 weeks earlier.
The difference may be nothing more than differing nutrient levels. Sandy soils tend to be lean and impoverished; bulbs which require a lot of nourishment to build themselves up (most do) often do better in a nutrient-retentive clay soil.
This may be part of the story but it is not the whole. Sternbergias do not flower on my heavy clay soil despite feeding. I think summer temperature is more important.
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This may be part of the story but it is not the whole. Sternbergias do not flower on my heavy clay soil despite feeding. I think summer temperature is more important.
Never one to give up easily, let me suggest that it's soil temperature that is important, and with clay soil, it needs to be dry. Damp clay won't warm up as well as dry.
How's that for a save?
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This may be part of the story but it is not the whole. Sternbergias do not flower on my heavy clay soil despite feeding. I think summer temperature is more important.
Never one to give up easily, let me suggest that it's soil temperature that is important, and with clay soil, it needs to be dry. Damp clay won't warm up as well as dry.
How's that for a save?
Not bad. May even be true.
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On the rocky limestone slopes in the countryside surrounding Veliko Tarnovo Sternbergia colchiciflora is beginning to flower in its tens of thousands! Hard to see from the road when you stop and walk into the dried grass there is a sub 'carpet' of yellow.
Colours range from acid yellow to more washed out pale forms.
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What a cute little plant! And well presented!
Thank you for showing this species growing in its natural environment!
Gerd
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My first Sternbergia for this autumn,
Sternbergia clusiana from S-Turkey, the best and largest species
A wonderful Sternbergia Dirk !!! :o
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Gerry, I have also bought the 'garden form' of lutea and these are not floriferous in Denmark. In average 1 out of 6 bulbs flowers. I have sandy soil in my garden, where I have most of my Sternbergias. I have a summer residence too where I have planted some lutea. There the soil is heavy clay, but they grow well and flower about 2 weeks earlier.
Poul
Poul, this is an interesting observation! Do I get this right - Your Sternbergia lutea in a sandy soil are shy flowering and those in heavy clay are earlier and have more flowers?
Are there some other differences between the two sites which might have an influence to flower formation (more sunlight, sloping, etc.)?
Gerd
The same clone of lutea (what I call 'Villa Carlotta', as I get I from there. It is similar to 'Autumn Gold') flower equal well in sandy or in clay soil. The only difference is flower time. I think that is coursed by small difference in temperature. Here is a list of my lutea from 2008:
Clone Soil Flowering time Flowers Plant site
'Villa Carlotta' bulb mix 26. Aug Many Pot in green house
'Villa Carlotta' clay 2. Sept Many 10 cm from S-facing wall 100 m from the coast
'Villa Carlotta' sandy 16. Sept Many 10 cm from S-facing wall 5 km from the coast
'Villa Carlotta' sandy 5. Oct Many 1 m from S-facing wall 5 km from the coast
'Villa Carlotta' sandy 12. Oct Many In my open kitchen garden 5 km from the coast
'Autumn Gold' sandy 10. Oct Many 1 m from S-facing wall 5 km from the coast
'garden form' sandy 1. Nov Few 10 cm from S-facing wall 5 km from the coast
'garden form' sandy 8. Nov Few 2 m from S-facing wall 5 km from the coast
All are well feed.
Poul
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On the rocky limestone slopes in the countryside surrounding Veliko Tarnovo Sternbergia colchiciflora is beginning to flower in its tens of thousands! Hard to see from the road when you stop and walk into the dried grass there is a sub 'carpet' of yellow.
Colours range from acid yellow to more washed out pale forms.
Hristo, what a show! It is really nice to see them in their natural habitat. That gives us an idea of what they like. And obviously they like this site.
How is the climate there? (temperature, rain in summer and winter)
Poul
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My first Sternbergia for this autumn,
Sternbergia clusiana from S-Turkey, the best and largest species
Dirk - please tell us how to flower this species. I have had a bulb for nearly 10 years & have never seen a flower.
Dirk, wonderfull clusiana!
Yes please tell us how you do. The pots seems rather large, how big are they? And what about feeding and summer rest?
Poul
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Hi Poul,
They are growing in a thin terra rossa type soil over limestone. May to late August sees little rain and temperatures to 40c.
September will normally see a sharp drop ( 10c ) in average dyatime temps and a week of heavy rain. The weather brightens up again and within a week to two weeks Sternbergia colchiciflora begins to flower. Interestingly the same cues seem to bring Colchicum autumnalis and Spiranthes spiralis into flower depsite their growing in quite different habitats!
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Flowering in the open garden now;
Sternbergia lutea 'Autumn Gold'
Sternbergia sicula 'Arcadean Sun'
Sternbergia lutea 'Rubbish Dump Rescue' :D
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Sternbergia lutea 'Rubbish Dump Rescue'
Stop teasing us and give us the gory details!
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LOL, last year we were visiting our favourite limestone slope. there is an adjacent 'parking area' formed by an unofficial quarry.
As with many quarries this is sometimes used as a rubbish dump. This time, when we visited, alot of garden waste had been dumped
including maybe 100 bulbs of Sternbergia lutea and 100 bulbs of Narcissus, Simon posted this in spring.
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Hi, all friends from Sternbergia.
My Sternbergia clusiana comes mixed with St.lutea from a trader in the Netherlands.
I cultivated in big pots ( 2 litre ), with protection in summer and winter ( rain and snow). The bulbs are very large, over 12 cm exent.
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Poul,
Thank you for your detailed list.
Gerd
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Hi, all friends from Sternbergia.
My Sternbergia clusiana comes mixed with St.lutea from a trader in the Netherlands.
I cultivated in big pots ( 2 litre ), with protection in summer and winter ( rain and snow). The bulbs are very large, over 12 cm exent.
12cm Crumbs, nearly 5"! :o Is that diameter?
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LOL, last year we were visiting our favourite limestone slope. there is an adjacent 'parking area' formed by an unofficial quarry.
As with many quarries this is sometimes used as a rubbish dump. This time, when we visited, alot of garden waste had been dumped
including maybe 100 bulbs of Sternbergia lutea and 100 bulbs of Narcissus, Simon posted this in spring.
Lucky you! Many of us pay a lot of money for a single Sternbergia bulb.
Poul
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Poul,
Yes a strange business and an odd experience to have 100 free Sternbergia bulbs to find a placement for!!!
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Wonderful plants everybody! S. clusiana is a real gem!
This time, when we visited, alot of garden waste had been dumped
including maybe 100 bulbs of Sternbergia lutea
Some years ago I also found some nice green Sternbergia luteas on a similar place like that - they looked a bit dry but ok.
The next year the leaves showed virus - I threw most away but kept some bulbs in a pot for one more year to see how they will look like - the plants flowered normal and the following year the leaves looked healthy and strong and no signs of virus were visible.
It seems good feeded Sternbergia (luteas) do not show virus in opposite to stressed plants (Zhirair mentioned something similar in Crocus).
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Hans, do you have photos of virus infected Sternbergia?
Poul
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Hans, do you have photos of virus infected Sternbergia?
Poul
Poul - I have a virus infected Sternbergia (I think). I'll post a photo in the next few days but I suspect it will not be easy to see the infection which is more obvious on the flowers - pale, almost transparent patches - than on the leaves. The plants remain vigorous & floriferous.
I just remembered that I posted a photo last year:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1208.msg55499#msg55499
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On the rocky limestone slopes in the countryside surrounding Veliko Tarnovo Sternbergia colchiciflora is beginning to flower in its tens of thousands! Hard to see from the road when you stop and walk into the dried grass there is a sub 'carpet' of yellow.
Colours range from acid yellow to more washed out pale forms.
Chris - many thanks for showing us the plant in the wild. One thing which caught my attention was the stigma, which appears divided at the tip, a feature I have never seen in other Sternbergia species & which isn't mentioned in the literature I have.
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Hans, do you have photos of virus infected Sternbergia?
Poul
Sorry Poul - it seems I did not make any picture but I remember the leaves were clearly motteled the first year.
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Here's one of the plants I have as Sternbergia greuteriana.
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12cm Crumbs, nearly 5"! Is that diameter?
Anthony, 12 cm is not the diameter, is it the size 12+ or 12/14 from the bulb-catalogue.
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Never noticed that Gary, I will check more closely to see if this is a common feature!
Anthony, I like your Sternbergia greuteriana, nice 'miniature' Sternbergia.
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Sternbergia lutea - a gift from a nice forum member from southern Germany.
Gerd
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Here's the first of my Sternbergia sicula. I now have two flowers open in this pot.
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Sternbergia greuteriana
Despite the poor summer this is flowering well with a number of buds. It seems to require less of a severe summer bake than other species. The narrow leaves in the background belong to S. sicula; the leaves of S.greuteriana are relatively broad (c. 8mm) with a silver stripe.
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Sternbergia lutea
A garden centre form. It was given a hot dry bake over the summer before being planted out. This form of S.lutea will not flower in the open garden here
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Sternbergia lutea
I have two forms of Sternbergia lutea. One flowers without leaves, the other one with leaves.
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-- and both forms looks beautifully in your meadow!
Gerd
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I've just noticed how much smaller the anthers of my sicula are compared with greuteriana. :-\
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Franz,
Your Autumn meadow looks just as good as your Spring meadow ! 8)
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Your meadow is a fantastic sight Franz - how deep is your soil?
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Virused Sternbergia
A few posts back Poul asked for photos of virused Sternbergia. I think this plant is infected. The symptoms are clearest on the leaves but are also visible on the tepals - not as obvious in a photo.
Despite the infection, the plant remains vigorous & floriferous. Unfortunately, it is clonal & self-sterile so there is no possibility of raising virus-free plants.
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Thank you all together for the kind comments.
My garden is an old meadow and in the earth there are many stones in all sizes.
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What is Sternbergia greuteriana?
It seems there are some difficulties to determinate the species mentioned above. The following pics show 3 different Sternbergia specimens, the first two were sold as S. greuteriana, the third one (from Karpathos) is very near to it at least.
The petal width is 5,5 mm (first one), 8,2 mm (second) and between 6 and 11 mm
(last).
For me no. 1 fits the description for greuteriana, but no. 2 and the smallest
in the pot of no. 3 belongs either also to it or they are some intermediates with Sternbergia sicula/lutea.
Gerd
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I thought Sterbergia greuteriana was only found on Crete?
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What is Sternbergia greuteriana?
It seems there are some difficulties to determinate the species mentioned above. The following pics show 3 different Sternbergia specimens, the first two were sold as S. greuteriana, the third one (from Karpathos) is very near to it at least.
The petal width is 5,5 mm (first one), 8,2 mm (second) and between 6 and 11 mm
(last).
For me no. 1 fits the description for greuteriana, but no. 2 and the smallest
in the pot of no. 3 belongs either also to it or they are some intermediates with Sternbergia sicula/lutea.
Gerd
Gerd (& Anthony) - A recent paper [EWAN GAGE & PAUL WILKIN Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 2008, 158, 460–469] argues that the botanical distinction between S. lutea, S.sicula, & S. greuteriana cannot be maintained & that they should all be sunk into S. lutea. The authors suggest that the current species might be retained as horticultural cultivars.
(Thanks to Hans J for sending me a PDF of this paper)
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Anthony,
It is also documentated from Karpathos!
Gerry,
I know of this paper but I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias
'lutea' because they are distinctly different.
What names should be used to distinguish them from eachother?
Gerd
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Gerry,
I know of this paper but I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias
'lutea' because they are distinctly different.
What names should be used to distinguish them from eachother?
Gerd
Well, since many gardeners have little interest in botanical distinctions I suppose they can continue using the existing names for the time being &, of course, a number of forms in cultivation already have cultivar names. In the case of those that don't I suppose one could use something along the lines of: Sternbergia lutea (= "S. greuteriana") or "Sternbergia greuteriana" (= S. lutea).
Addition - I suppose one could also use geographical origin to distinguish them: 'Corfu Form', 'Cretan Form' & so on.
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Anthony,
It is also documentated from Karpathos!
Gerd
I've just checked one of my pots. It is labled 'PC'. I seem to remember his supply came from Karpothos?
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I have occasionally encountered Sternbergia sicula in Crete and the Peloponnese that have more than the usual number of petals and on one occasion saw a plant in the Peloponnese that was a 'double'. Since I was given this one, which was found in the Kotsifou Gorge many years ago, it has always produced seven or eight petals.
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:o - Very fine S. sicula!
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Really stunning - not a plant that I have eve seen on offer commercially but would love to grow it :D
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I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias 'lutea' because they are distinctly different. What names should be used to distinguish them from each other?
If you accept that these "species" are conspecific, Sternbergia greuteriana would become Sternbergia lutea Greuteriana Group, and S. sicula would become S. lutea Sicula Group. This is how Daphne retusa is treated - it's conspecific with Daphne tangutica so technically is called Dephne tangutica Retusa Group.
Just how a group name (a horticultural category, not a botanical one) is published validly, I don't know. Perhaps someone here is sufficiently familiar with the code for horticultural nomenclature to tell us?
Cultivar names are subordinate to Group names, so you might have Sternbergia lutea Sicula Group 'Gerd's Delight'. (Using a possessive form like that may contravene the rules, however.)
Incidentally, if you peer closely at the rules regarding cultivar names, it's clear that they were devised by people speaking languages with a clear distinction between nouns (or substantives) and adjectives. I think it would be amusing to assign cultivar names using languages that take a different cut on things. Some North American Indian languages, for example, have single words where in Indo-European languages you'd have a complete sentence. Thus you could have a cultivar name with the meaning "This flower shines like the sun in the field and amazes the plant collectors." In honor of the recently passed International Pirate Talk Day, hardy-har-har, m'lads!
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I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias 'lutea' because they are distinctly different. What names should be used to distinguish them from each other?
Just how a group name (a horticultural category, not a botanical one) is published validly, I don't know. Perhaps someone here is sufficiently familiar with the code for horticultural nomenclature to tell us?
Rodger - In order to gain familiarity with the horticultural code one has to part with money. By contrast the botanical code is available on-line & free. This tells us something (though I'm not sure what).
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It tells us that we pay for the name Gerry.
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Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young #2 (in front is one of my greuteriana with a faded flower, and S. greuteriana from PC ex Karpathos. I'm blowed if I can tell the difference! ::)
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Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young (in front is one of my greuteriana with a faded flower, and S. greuteriana from PC ex Karpathos. I'm blowed if I can tell the difference! ::)
Exactly!
The point has been made in earlier posts (last year?) on Sternbergia in Crete.
Addition: It was 2007 in a post by Kees Jan -
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1026.0
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Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young
So there is hope - can you grow them out of doors in Scotland Anthony? A happy looking group ;)
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Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young
So there is hope - can you grow them out of doors in Scotland Anthony? A happy looking group ;)
I've tried and failed many times Robin. :-\
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Gerry, thank you for the photos of virused lutea.
Here are some of mine Sternbergia in flower.
1. St. greuteriana from PC (I refuse to call it LUTEA as it is so different)
2. The same two days earlier
3. St. lutea from Villa Carlotta in Italy
4. St. lutea close up
5. St. sicula 'Dodona Gold'
By the way, my St. clusiana's have been eaten by some Narcissus fly grubs >:(, and I think some of my lutea clumps have been visited by this nasty fly too :'(. Have any of you experience with Narcissus fly and Sternbergia?
Poul
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Here is one I bought as Sternbergia lutea sicula. It is very different from Ian's #2. Poul, your greuteriana from PC has very pointed tepals. I have only once seen what I would regard as a 'classic' example of greuteriana, and it had tiny flowers with rounded tips to the tepals. I have been searching for this form ever since.
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Here is one I bought as Sternbergia lutea sicula. It is very different from Ian's #2. Poul, your greuteriana from PC has very pointed tepals. I have only once seen what I would regard as a 'classic' example of greuteriana, and it had tiny flowers with rounded tips to the tepals. I have been searching for this form ever since.
Anthony - I only have one form of S. greuteriana, given to me by the late Erna Frank (probably from a Manfred Koenen collection). The shape of the tepal tips seems to vary somewhat on successive flowers from the same bulb - relatively pointed to relatively rounded. I should have some spare bulbs & can send you some next summer if you like.
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Here is one I bought as Sternbergia lutea sicula. It is very different from Ian's #2. Poul, your greuteriana from PC has very pointed tepals. I have only once seen what I would regard as a 'classic' example of greuteriana, and it had tiny flowers with rounded tips to the tepals. I have been searching for this form ever since.
Me too. I hope I have found them. RV Rogers picture of greuteriana is like that. http://www.rvroger.co.uk/index.php?linksource=stockgroup&webpage=sternbergia&listgroupfile=bulbs&parentpagefile=latesummerbulbs&season=BLSU&caller=Header (http://www.rvroger.co.uk/index.php?linksource=stockgroup&webpage=sternbergia&listgroupfile=bulbs&parentpagefile=latesummerbulbs&season=BLSU&caller=Header)
I have ordered some, but not yet received them.
Poul
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I finally got one flower on Stenbergia lutea ?
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Poul. That's the one. Thanks Gerry, I'd be honoured and delighted. I have Sternbergia lutea 'Autumn Gold' from PC just about flowering. I'll take a pic tomorrow. Alas, on Monday I am off to sunny Millport with 17 6th year Advanced Higher Biology pupils (16/17 year olds) and won't be back until Thursday evening. I do hope my flower buds, especially Crocus mathewi, wait until I'm back?
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A pleasure Anthony, I'll get in touch next summer.
I'll be interested to see what 'Autumn Gold' looks like since I haven't been able to obtain it.
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some new Sternberia this weekend:
Sternbergia greuteriana, stoloniferae form
'' '' , without stolone and larger flowers ( Crete )
'' sicula ssp.attica 'Dodona Gold'
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Lovely Sternberia everyone - a real burst of sunshine in a pot - are they all grown in a greenhouse?
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today in flower, Sternbergia colchiflora
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Hi Ragged Robin,
i cultivated all my Sternbergia outside, with protection before rain and snow
in summer and winter.
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Alessandro, I love you tiny Sternbergia :)
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today in flower, Sternbergia colchiflora
It is nice to see a colchiflora. What compost do you use?
Poul
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Some post ago I mentioned that I might have a Narcissus fly attach in my Sternbergia. Unfortunately I was right.
Here is the story:
I was happy some times ago as I saw that almost all plants in a group of Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold' had flower buds. Specially as this group is placed in the open garden and therefore normally not flower so well. But I got a bit worried as one of the flowerbud did not develop as rest of them. And as the leaves started to get yellow I decided the dig it up. And I was right. The bulb was hollowed by a grub. After killing the grub (I admit with pleasure) I cut of the rotten part of the bulb. As the roots looks healthy I will give it a try. I have powdered it with sulphur and replanted it in almost dry compost too see if it can survive.
1. The plant with typical signs of a Narcissus fly attach: Undeveloped flower and yellow tipped leaves.
2. The bulb with the grub visible inside.
3. The nasty little devil!
4. The hollow bulb.
Now I am very worried about my Galanthus Reginae Olgae, as they are the preferred target in my garden.
I wish you have avoided any Narcissus fly attach!
Poul
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today in flower, Sternbergia colchiflora
Alessandro,
does it set flower every year for you?
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I think I read in this thread that St. sicula "Dodona's Gold" is one of the better one's to grow outside. Am I right, and if so, would somebody have some bulbs to spare when they go dormant, or otherwise indicate where they can be obtained ??
Thanks !
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I think I read in this thread that St. sicula "Dodona's Gold" is one of the better one's to grow outside. Am I right, and if so, would somebody have some bulbs to spare when they go dormant, or otherwise indicate where they can be obtained ??
Thanks !
Luc - 'Dodona Gold' is said to grow & flower outside if conditions are favourable (i.e., hot). Based on my own experience with other Sternbergias in a fairly hot garden in Brighton I am a little sceptical & would be inclined to lift them when dormant & store them like tulips.
I don't grow this form but it is obtainable from Paul Christian (Rare Plants) & comes from one of his own own collections (with Antoine Hoog) made in 1987.
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I think I read in this thread that St. sicula "Dodona's Gold" is one of the better one's to grow outside. Am I right, and if so, would somebody have some bulbs to spare when they go dormant, or otherwise indicate where they can be obtained ??
Thanks !
Yes they performs good outside, specially if they are placed where they can get lots of sun. Luc, I can send you some bulbs in June/July, when I am replanting. If you can't wait until then, you can still buy them at Paul Christian (rareplants).
Poul
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today in flower, Sternbergia colchiflora
It is nice to see a colchiflora. What compost do you use?
Poul
Poul
I use compost, with stone addition volcano, pomice and quartz sand
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today in flower, Sternbergia colchiflora
Alessandro,
does it set flower every year for you?
Oron
this is the first year to bloom, I cannot know
Alessandro
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Two very different species !
S. clusiana, from Syria, and the tiny S. colchiciflora, from Janis
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Beautiful! :D
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Fred
Nice, beautiful also the photos mine digital has problems with the yellow
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Two very different species !
S. clusiana, from Syria, and the tiny S. colchiciflora, from Janis
Beautifully Sternbergias. I like the short stem on both of them. Do you grow them outside?
Poul
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I grow S. clusiana outside, and S. colchiciflora in bulb frame for this year, next year outside.
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Taking the chance to post Sternbergia sicula before it isn't anymore!
It has been a great autumn here for Sternbergia flowering, it has
been three to four weeks since our last rains so the flowers have stayed
in very good condition, how fares the flowering of Sternbergia elsewhere?
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Taking the chance to post Sternbergia sicula before it isn't anymore!
It has been a great autumn here for Sternbergia flowering, it has
been three to four weeks since our last rains so the flowers have stayed
in very good condition, how fares the flowering of Sternbergia elsewhere?
Superb Chris - it looks thoroughly at home.
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Marvellous pics Fred. Thank you
Dom
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Wonderful picture Chris!
Here also some Sternbergias have started to flower.
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Superb Sternbergias Hans. Many thanks for showing them.
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They seem to enjoy life Hans !!!
Beautiful !!
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I still can't find a reliable way of flowering Sternbergia colchiciflora. In the bulb house it forms seeds but no flowers are ever seen. I had a flower outside in a trough last year, but the bulb has now vanished. :-\
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I love your S. sicula hans, in 'natural' situation !!
Anthony, I think that S. colchiciflora, as many other geophyts needs hot and DRY rest period to flower.
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Cheers Gerry and Hans,
I second Fred and Lucs appreciation of the Sternbergia from between the rocks!
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I love your S. sicula hans, in 'natural' situation !!
Anthony, I think that S. colchiciflora, as many other geophyts needs hot and DRY rest period to flower.
They get bone dry in the greenhouse, and as I had a chameleon wandering around inside, I had the door closed this year. The windows are screened and open automatically. In previous years flowers seem to have stayed below ground as I find mature seed pods later on.
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Thanks to all!
Anthony, had this year the same problem - no visible flower last year but a seedpod this spring - think flowering below soil is depending the enviromental conditions, but do not know how take influence in this - will see it later this year or maybe again next spring. ::)
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. . . flowering below soil is depending the enviromental conditions . . .
There are cold adapted bulbs that, if given insufficient winter chilling, do not elongate their scapes properly. Erythronium grandiflorum is one. I have a few bulbs of this originally collected as seedlings on Mt. Prevost (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.832549,-123.765707&spn=0.012543,0.027552&t=p&z=15) just outside Duncan, BC, where it grows on cold north-facing slopes at a relatively low altitude. In my garden, they are planted in a shaded bed to the north of my house where they get minimal sun and none at all in winter. Unfortunately, our winters are usually not cold enough so they usually don't floweer at all or in a very unsatisfactory way - unlike those shown in this photograph taken in Colorado (http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/regions/rockymountain/WestElkScenicByway/images/erythronium-grandiflorum-lg.jpg).
Soil temperature would seem to be the key, then, but I can't say if your little sternbergias are too warm or too cool.
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Taking the chance to post Sternbergia sicula before it isn't anymore!
It has been a great autumn here for Sternbergia flowering, it has
been three to four weeks since our last rains so the flowers have stayed
in very good condition, how fares the flowering of Sternbergia elsewhere?
Hristo, here is a status of my Sternbergia in the garden.
1. St. lutea 'Villa Carlotta' at wall
2. St. lutea 'Villa Carlotta' in open garden
3. St. sicula 'Dodona Gold' at wall
4. Another group of sicula 'Dodona Gold' 5 cm away flowers 2 weeks later.
5. St. greuteriana
Poul
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three sternbergia's out at the moment. The last is one from Melvyn
Sternbergia lutea
Sternbergia sicula (two)
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Poul and Tony, lovely to see your Sternbergia in the garden and in a pot - glorious sunny yellow to bring a glow to the garden at this time of year, thanks :)
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Very nice Tony. The one from Melvyn might pass for a large form of S. greuteriana. It just serves to persuade me further that they should all be sunk into S. lutea.
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Hi Poul,
Looks like you have some super floriferous clumps there, are the clones near the wall ( south facing wall? ) flowering better than those elsewhere?
Tony, super specimens, are you going to give the last one back to Melvyn??
5 weeks for sicula seems great, in the UK flowering seemed to be a one shot affair, here we have had rain since my last post and this has bought on another set of flowers!
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Sternbergia sicula flowers over five weeks long
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Very nice Tony. The one from Melvyn might pass for a large form of S. greuteriana. It just serves to persuade me further that they should all be sunk into S. lutea.
Gerry I could not agree more,particularly when its petals reflexed right back.
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5 weeks for sicula seems great, in the UK flowering seemed to be a one shot affair, here we have had rain since my last post and this has bought on another set of flowers!
Chris - it seems to vary according to form (or 'species', if you prefer). Here S. greuteriana has been producing a succession of flowers over nearly 4 weeks. S. lutea angustifolia from Crete produced a second set of flowers - it usually does despite its virus infection. Last year S.sicula 'Arcadian Sun' also produced a second set of flowers - it didn't flower at all this year
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Very nice Tony. The one from Melvyn might pass for a large form of S. greuteriana. It just serves to persuade me further that they should all be sunk into S. lutea.
Gerry I could not agree more,particularly when its petals reflexed right back.
It's the rounded petal tips which draw me towards thinking greuteriana.
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this is Sternbergia greuteriana from Melvyn for comparison flowering last month
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Sternbergia sicula flowers over five weeks long
They must be quite a sight in your meadow Hans, have you taken a wide shot showing more?
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this is Sternbergia greuteriana from Melvyn for comparison flowering last month
Look at the difference in anther size Tony.
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this is Sternbergia greuteriana from Melvyn for comparison flowering last month
Look at the difference in anther size Tony.
Yes, that is one difference... the BD is working on showing other evidence of the difference that is S. greuteriana.... watch the Bulb Log for details!
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this is Sternbergia greuteriana from Melvyn for comparison flowering last month
Look at the difference in anther size Tony.
Yes, that is one difference... the BD is working on showing other evidence of the difference that is S. greuteriana.... watch the Bulb Log for details!
Yes, the anthers are relatively large on Tony's (Melvyn's) plant but this does not seem to be a consistent feature - they are not so on my own plant, for example (posted somewhere above). Moreover, relative anther size does not seem to have been used previously as a basis for distinguishing species. I await with interest the BD's discussion - but I will take a lot of convincing that these plants should be distinguished botanically.
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Perhaps not so much a question of "larger" anthers but longer, and held differently at full maturity- which is a diagnostic feature in, for instance, narcissus.
The BD's other point is also a recognised diagnostic, which seems to have been overlooked thus far!
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this is Sternbergia greuteriana from Melvyn for comparison flowering last month
Look at the difference in anther size Tony.
to me thats like asking has a person got blue or green eyes,does that make them a seperate species? I have looked at the leaves today and they are completly different colours.
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this is Sternbergia greuteriana from Melvyn for comparison flowering last month
Look at the difference in anther size Tony.
to me thats like asking has a person got blue or green eyes,does that make them a seperate species? I have looked at the leaves today and they are completly different colours.
.................but if the eyes were a different size................the truth is out there!? :o
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And all we're talking about here is the visible differences for us to visually discern the species. They may be all kinds of different underneath, hence the differentiation into species by botanists. Going to the alien analogy etc.... if someone looked liked us but had a completely different internal structure, it would be classified as a different species, even though visually it appeared the same on the outside.
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Hi Poul,
Looks like you have some super floriferous clumps there, are the clones near the wall ( south facing wall? ) flowering better than those elsewhere?
Tony, super specimens, are you going to give the last one back to Melvyn??
5 weeks for sicula seems great, in the UK flowering seemed to be a one shot affair, here we have had rain since my last post and this has bought on another set of flowers!
Hristo, my best garden site for Sternbergia is this south facing wall. Close to this wall lutea, sicula and greuteriana flowering is reliable even after a cold and wet summer, but as little as 1 m from the wall you only get rich flowering after a warm summer. Another experience is that flowering is not so rich the first couple of years after planting. It seems they like to be undisturbed and get congested before real good flowering occurs.
But I have a problem with this site. A big oak (which I would like to keep) take more and more of the sun in this bed, so in near future I will have to find a new home for my Sternbergias. I have planed to make a new rock bed in the open garden, but unfortunately there is no wall. Instead I will make a warm place at the base of some big stones facing south.
To all Sternbergia friends: If you have some photos or description of such a bed, I will be very glad if you could post them as an inspiration. Thanks!
Poul
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The BD's other point is also a recognised diagnostic, which seems to have been overlooked thus far!
New Bulb Log is loaded online ......http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2009Oct071254912563BULB_LOG__4009.pdf
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The BD's other point is also a recognised diagnostic, which seems to have been overlooked thus far!
New Bulb Log is loaded online ......http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2009Oct071254912563BULB_LOG__4009.pdf
If anyone is interested, I have posted a couple of comments on the Bulb Log.
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On my way to the Bulb Log this afternoon to find out what i should be doing!
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Hi,
my Sternbergias in front of a south facing wall!
A little past their best - sorry!
All the best from Austria!
Herbert
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Herbert great that you can grow them outside.
Here is a Sternbergia sicula in flower today.
Having read Ian's comments I can say that they have now closed up for the night. Another pot from the same area has remained open.
The S. lutea remain open.
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Here is a Sternbergia sicula in flower today.
Having read Ian's comments I can say that they have now closed up for the night. Another pot from the same area has remained open.
The S. lutea remain open.
More variability within a single species?
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Tony, it would be interesting to hear if those still open at just before 5 pm , when you posted, are still open when it is fully dark?
Herbert, your display outside by your wall is lovely!
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Maggi at the moment they are but I will check again before I go to bed.
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Sternbergia sicula must have the widest distribution of any plant, if "kosmos" is to be believed? ;D
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Tony, it would be interesting to hear if those still open at just before 5 pm , when you posted, are still open when it is fully dark?
Maggi I can now confirm at 10.50pm that I have both subspecies
openfloweratnightii and closedfloweratnightii both from the same batch of seed.
I am now wondering if there is any significance in the way the leaves rotate on different plants. On some the leaf tips are turned clockwise and on others counterclockwise? This is clearly visible on different collections.
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Tony,
So would that mean you may eventually end with both openfloweratnightii and closedfloweratnightii with formas clockwiseiana and counterclockwiseiana? Could you then give a varietal name to one of the night open ones as well?
I think saddling it with an epithet like Sternbergia sicula ssp openfloweratnightii forma counterclockwiseiana 'Midnight Sun' might be a little rough though, even if that would be a cool name. :o ;D Then again, maybe someone will do so and I can sit back and let the royalty cheques roll in. ;)
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I am reminded of those famous words, uttered by Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind" ......... ::) ;)
.....but the BD will be interested! :)
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Do not know if it is still of interest - until now all clones of S. lutea and S. sicula close the flowers at night - S. greuteriana is still dormant. ::)
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Sternbergia greuteriana with seeds in the future.....
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Sternbergia greuteriana with seeds in the future.....
hooo, that's a good one Dom :o,
Great to see all parts of the plant at the same time, intresting to see the plain leaves too, with no white strip in the middle
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a couple of 'species' of sternbergia showing different flower shapes
Sternbergia lutea
Sternbergia sicula
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Another Sternbergia shape, this time a S. sicula from near Rethymno.
I have followed the same steps as Tony and have been looking at my Sternbergia at night and there is no consistency, some remain open others are closed. I wonder if it has anything to do with whether or not they have been pollinated. I cannot check on what I call S. greuteriana ( originally from Omalos) as mine finished flowering about a month ago.
I was aware that Paul Wilkin was writing a paper as he came to see my plants and he mentioned that they would all be regarded as forms of S. lutea. I am not a botanist but when I see the morphology of my largest S. lutea and compare with S. greuteriana I think it requires some method of defining the various forms, perhaps as described by Rodger in his post on 25th September, at least we would then know what is being described.
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I was aware that Paul Wilkin was writing a paper as he came to see my plants and he mentioned that they would all be regarded as forms of S. lutea. I am not a botanist but when I see the morphology of my largest S. lutea and compare with S. greuteriana I think it requires some method of defining the various forms, perhaps as described by Rodger in his post on 25th September, at least we would then know what is being described.
This would be nice Melvyn but, given the range of forms shown on the forum, I suspect the list of definitions would be as long as my arm. The phrase "infinite variety" comes to mind.
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Starting to flower what I have as S. angustifolia. [S. lutea x sicula].
I received these plants about 12 years ago, they never set seeds, which might indicate that it is an hybrid.
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Oron - when it appears I would be interested to see the foliage on this plant. The plants I have under this name have leaves which are intermediate between sicula & lutea in width & more-or-less upright. However plants are currently being distributed under this name in the UK with foliage much more like sicula - very narrow & almost prostrate.
By the way, my plants are self-sterile but can be pollinated by sicula.
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Oron - when it appears I would be interested to see the foliage on this plant. The plants I have under this name have leaves which are intermediate between sicula & lutea in width & more-or-less upright. However plants are currently being distributed under this name in the UK with foliage much more like sicula - very narrow & almost prostrate.
By the way, my plants are self-sterile but can be pollinated by sicula.
Gerry thanks for your comment, i find it very intresting that it set seeds being pollinated with sicula, would never think about it...
as i remember the leaves are upright as you have described, i will post a photo when they appear.
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Sternbergia lutea in S-Turkey, good flowers before comes the first rain
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WOW!WOW!WOW!
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They just look magnificent on a sunny slope with that baked earth - what a sight, thanks Dirk :)
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Dirk, thanks for posting these photos, they look fabulous. I hope to see something similar in the Peloponnese in three weeks time.
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Dirk, it seems you came along Akseki Pass! Interesting to note that this place isn't interesting in spring only.
Gerd
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Superb Udo,
and so nice to see them running in the wild !!
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Dirk
they are wonderful,lets hope they still look as good next week when I get there.
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Thanks Dirk - great pictures of Sternbergia in its habitat!
Here I have made the observation the larger (S. lutea) start to flower some weeks earlier than the smaller ones (S. sicula) - and S. greuteriana shows it first bud recently - they all have the same (or very similar) conditions in the open garden.
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Some more pics before rain starts. ::)
First one I received as S. greuteriana, some different S. sicula and finally one a comperative pic of S. sicula and S. lutea.
S. sicula Dodona Gold, which is said to be one of the most floriferous, did not show any flower after three years growing here ::)
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Sternbergia lutea in S-Turkey, good flowers before comes the first rain
I saw a sight like this in the hills of Corfu many years ago.
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superb Hans, thank's for all this pictures !
The double form is very strange....
and not easy to make difference on pictures between S. sicula and S. greuteriana.
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Fascinating to see the variation Hans. S. sicula 1 looks just like a large form of S. greuteriana while I've never seen a form of S. greuteriana that is quite like your plant.
It's very curious that 'Dodona Gold' doesn't flower for you - are you sure it's true to name?
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Thanks Fred - I knew you would like the double form specially ;D
Thanks Gerry,
this S. greuteriana is a form which was distributed by J. Amand in 1994 - it is still not open but i decided to post it as tomorrow the weather should be terribly bad. Depending the wheaterconditions I will take another shot. This flower is about half of the size of the smallest S. sicula (S.s.5).
Dodona Gold is from PC so it should be correct - I suppose it is my fault it does not want to flower as I always heard it would do fine also if it is planted in suboptimal conditions - it seems conditions where I planted it are too suboptimal ::)
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Thank you Hans. Nice pics and plants, especially odd looking S. double
Dom
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Fantastic photos Hans and dirk :o
By the way Hans , more photos i see of S. greuteriana ans less i notice the differens between the species, do you notice any differens in its habits or size?
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Thanks Dom & Oron,
;D yes Oron you are right - it is similar to the Oncos: have you seen few you do not doubt the species status or names - but more you see less you know... ::) ;)
Will try to make some better pics tomorrow... ;)
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Dodona Gold is from PC so it should be correct - I suppose it is my fault it does not want to flower as I always heard it would do fine also if it is planted in suboptimal conditions - it seems conditions where I planted it are too suboptimal ::)
Hans,
Wonderful display of Sternbergia species!
It seems ' Dodona Gold ' enjoys the suboptimal conditions in the cold north -
here no problems with flowering. ;)
Gerd
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Thanks Gerd - will do my best to get ' Dodona Gold ' next year in flower. ;)
Here some more pics I could take today. I realized one of the double Sternbergias flowered double - two flowers on one stalk.
As S. greuteriana is always of interest here some more pics which might show how tiny it is. The wheather was quite bad so I am glad it opened a bit with the little sunshine we had. (coin diameter 25,75mm)
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Hans,
these really are little beauties! Does the double set seed and does it breed true???
cheers
fermi
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Thanks a lot Fermi,
I am also very curious, but until now I did not get any seed of this Sternbergia.
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I don't think the double form could be fertile :'(
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I don't think the double form could be fertile :'(
I'm not so sure.... looks to me that the double flowers still show their sexual parts...... they may be fertile!
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Maggi you might be right, I checked the flowers and they have both - anthers and stigmas.
Actually it is raining nearly every half an hour so pollination seems hardly possible - now I covered the plants and hope they will become dry to try handpollination, will see... ::)
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Good luck Hans ;D
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Two sternbergias currently in flower
Sternbergia sicula
Sternbergia greuteriana
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As you know, I've given up on worrying what species these things are.... but I do know they are all delightfully photogenic!
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Thanks Fred!
Very fine plants Arthur!
(glad both S.greuteriana on this pages look very similar) ::)
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I don't think the double form could be fertile :'(
I'm not so sure.... looks to me that the double flowers still show their sexual parts...... they may be fertile!
Yes Maggi, I'm with you on this. Stamens and anthers are visible, so worth a go, even if two generations need to pass?
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wait and see... ;D
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Sternbergia lutea in S-Turkey, good flowers before comes the first rain
Udo,
It is always a pleasure too see Sternbergias in their natural habitat. Thank you for showing us.
Poul
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Some more pics before rain starts. ::)
First one I received as S. greuteriana, some different S. sicula and finally one a comperative pic of S. sicula and S. lutea.
S. sicula Dodona Gold, which is said to be one of the most floriferous, did not show any flower after three years growing here ::)
A nice collection!
Your Sternbergias looks very natural, I like that.
My Dodona Gold is from PC too. The first couple of years there was only few flowers, but now they are very floriferous. It seems they like to be congested to flower well.
Poul
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Some of my Sternbergias in the garden.
1. Sicula Dodona Gold from PC
2. Greuteriana from PC flowers well this year
3. The same in sunshine
4. Size comparison of greuteriana and Dodona Gold
5. Lutea Autumn Gold
Poul
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Marvelously blooming sternbergias, Poul!!! :o It's in alpine house or outside?
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Thank you Dimitri,
I grow them outside, unprotected.
Poul
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Lovely show Poul.
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They seem to be enjoying themselves Poul !! 8)
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Very impressive Poul.
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Real gold, wonderful to see Poul and they seem to like being close to your habitat!
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After seen so fat ;D blooming of Poul's strnbrs, I post my reliably full-hardy S. colchiciflora from Moldova steppes. This year some unique bulbs of it firstly gave 4 flwrs instead 1-2 as usually! I think our hot summer passed that baked them so good ;D
Other story about S. colchiciflora from Crimean jajla (1000 m) that push only fat leaves this year, any flwr in the same culture conditions .... :'( :'(
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Thanks for the kind comments from all of you!
Dimitri: Your colchiciflora are outstanding! Many of us (including me) have problems with them. Often we do not see the flower, but in the spring a seedpod indicate that it has flowered below the soil surface.
The pink one on the last photo is that a meredana/colchicum montana or have you painted a St. colchiciflora? ;D
Poul
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Poul! But I have a problem with other fall-flowering St. species growing quiet well with you ;D
I have 2 clones of colchiciflora and both aren't from Turkey or Iran or Syria. Never saw them flowering under soil but read about this phenomenon in wild when the climate is so hot that flowers don't appeare outdoors. But in Europe the climate isn't hot at all!!! Why does it bloom under soil with you??? Poul, do you have an intention try to grow one of my colchiciflora clones at you?
The pink one is Merendera montana- you are right! They are so so similar by petal forms!!!! so I could not resist making their joint portrait! ;D
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Dimitri,
congratulations for your successfull growth of S. colchiciflora !
nice clump and good idea to join it with (Merendera) Colchicum montanum.
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Thank you, Fred!
but it grows itself like this undisturbing and unreplanting, the main thing - it's a good bulb baking during summer.
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Poul! But I have a problem with other fall-flowering St. species growing quiet well with you ;D
Poul, do you have an intention try to grow one of my colchiciflora clones at you?
Dimitri, yes I would love to try one of your colchiciflora! And you could try one of mine sicula or greuteriana in Ukraine?
Poul
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OKey, Poul - deal! ;D
next year should be very fruitful for swaping! ::)
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This Sternbergia sicula has a shape unlike any others that I have seen in Crete, it originated from the village of Afrata and increases at a very good rate.
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John Richards , in his Northumberland Diary on the AGS website has just returned from Crete......he and Ian were discussing the Sternbergia " confusions" the other week and now John has brought back interesting photos and comments from this recent trip.... 8) http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Northumberland/+October+/233/
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John and I obviously visited the same taverna, the Kali Kardia (Good Heart) taverna in Afrata. When I admired the Sternbergia the owner promptly went out and picked a large bunch for my table!
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John and I obviously visited the same taverna, the Kali Kardia (Good Heart) taverna in Afrata. When I admired the Sternbergia the owner promptly went out and picked a large bunch for my table!
:o ;D 8)
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John Richards , in his Noth umberland Diary on the AGS website has just returned from Crete......he and Ian were discussing the Sternbergia " confusions" the other week and now John has brought back interesting photos and comments from this recent trip.... 8) http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Northumberland/+October+/233/
Interesting. One, extremely variable species.
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Very nice form Melvyn. I hope you'd have seeds...!!!
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First leaves of Sternbergia candida in the garden with buds ! What a chance, no last year, perhaps 3 this year, perhaps seeds !!!
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Croise les doigts Dom !
cross your fingers and hope ;)
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a Sternbergia sicula from Greece, Gythio, in flower today a good six weeks later than all my others.It was watered at the same time and this is the first time it has flowered
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Tony
I was given some Sternbergia earlier this year called 'Molly Dawson's Late Flowering' - they are flowering now.
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Arthur I sent Hans J one of mine and it is also in flower with him now so it must be this clone.Clearly from what you say there are others as well.
Perhaps I will call mine Tonys late Flowering,perhaps not.
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How nice to have Sternbergia flowering so late.
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a Sternbergia sicula from Greece, Gythio, in flower today a good six weeks later than all my others.It was watered at the same time and this is the first time it has flowered
Thats a nice plant Tony, a good strong colour and a large flower. It will be interesting to see when it flowers next year.
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Today i went to the Southern part of the Golan Heights close to the Jordanian border in order to see a good population of Crocus cancellatus.
Surprisingly there were still some sternbergia clusiana in bloom, some are growing with Cyclamen persicum var. autumnale.
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Oron! such pictures! A treat to see. What is the little Colchicum?
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My plesure Maggi,
it is Colchicum stevenii.
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Thanks, Oron! Just been to see the lovely Crocus cancellatus pix, also.... all lovely. 8)
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Thanks for showing the Sternbergia Oron, I still think its amazing that you can be photographing in the Golan Heights in the morning and we can enjoy them later in the day on a cold rainy evening in England.
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I agree with melvyn Oron,
thank's to you and...WWW ;D we can travel at very low price !!
The autumn flowering Cyclamen persicum is stuning !
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Fantastic pictures Oron :o - a wonderful natural plant combination.
Fien to see Sternbergias flowering so late, here next to flower will be S. candida. Think Doms' are ahead this year. :)
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Oron,
It is real nice to see Clusiana in nature!
We have had a frost free November in Denmark and the St. lutea still flowers. This photo was taken in the last days of November.
I have another form of lutea in the open garden which are very late this year. As there still were no sign of them some weeks ago I thought they have been destroyed by the narcissus fly grub, as many of my others Sternbergia. I therefore decided to dig them up to kill the grubs to minimise future attach's. But the bulbs were all healthy! Apparently they had not had enough heat and dryness in the summer followed by some cooler weather to wake them up. I have to admit that they are not placed in the warmest part of the garden.
And as they normally has very few flowers, I decided to pot them, so I can give them a hot summer bake.
Poul