Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: mark smyth on December 10, 2008, 01:26:38 PM
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Continuing on from the galanthus forum ..
What would be in your top 5 Crocus?
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The results from the Maggi Jury... in no particular order......
Crocus gargaricus
Crocus mathewi ( the form with a big dark blackcurrant splash in the throat)
Crocus corsicus
Crocus sieberi atticus
Crocus boryi .... maybe banaticus...... ask me tomorrow, I'll give you five more and keep going till I'm a really old lady!
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Mark, what are your Top 5 ???
Hard to choose from such a wide range of flowers, but mine are:
sieberi „Hubert Edelsten“ – due to its extravagant markings, different from all the other Crocus
versicolor – due to its extreme variable flowers from white to dark blue with or without stripes and its strong appearance
medius – the true wild form due to the contrast between the long, red, multi-branched style and the dark violet of the flower
laevigatus – bringing colour in a time of the year, when only a few other plants are in flower
tournefortii – looking so flimsy and fragile with its long, long style
and of course
mathewii – with its dark blue throat and red style in the bright white flowers
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Now then Thomas - that is SIX ... you're not playing properly
..... but then nor am I ;D
I like all of them and the ones I like best are the ones looking good today .... sadly no flowers looking good today :'(
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I'm hopeless as every time I see one I want it ;)
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Mine are
Crocus mathewii - a beautiful Crocus and a tribute to someone who has made Crocus accessible
Crocus sieberi sieberi - so much better than sieberi tricolor and truly beautiful
Crocus banaticus - different and spectacular
Crocus laevigatus - so many variants and extending to flowering season over months
Crocus michelsonii - can be stunning
However, I wish you had asked for Top 10, then I could include
Crocus niveus
Crocus boryi
Crocus biflorus ssp. melantherus
Crocus baytoperiorum
Crocus hyemalis
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Chosen because they are attractive, easy, widely available & relatively cheap:
pulchellus
cartwrightianus
niveus (white)
tournefortii
flavus or sieberi 'Bowles White'
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mine on the same basis as Gerry but restricted to Autumn flowering species.
goulimiy
boryi
kotschyanus
medius
speciosus 'Oxonion'
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I see your game, David... you're going to have another go with spring flowering types! Cheat!
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Mine are all easy but SO generous that I can't go past them.
CC minimus,
sieberi sublimis f. tricolor,
biflorus alexandri (the form I had as b. pulchricolor, that isn't),
nudiflorus
chrysanthus `Zwanenburg.'
The next 5 would be....... ad infinitum.
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I see your game, David... you're going to have another go with spring flowering types! Cheat!
;) ;)
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As my taste goes to very showy, large-sized and beautiful-shaped and to the ones, which make a good display from a distance. My choice is
1. crocus vernus Dutch hybrids,
2. crocus pulchellus 'Zephyr' (for being very beautiful, showy, easy-growing and floriferous!!!) and other nice speciosus x pulchellus hybrids
3. crocus speciosus and its cultivars
4. crocus niveus - most showy ones
5. crocus goulimyi, especially 'Many White'
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such agony to be restricted to just 5,
so here are the 4 easy ones,
banaticus
vallicola
sieberi ssp. sieberi
minimus ,the Col de Bavella form , col. by Alan Edwards,
and the gorgeous mathewii, seems to be everyones favourite ,
but not the easiest in my garde
Otto
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Mark, It is impossible. Too many crocuses exist, but to keep in, I divided my top-5 in three groups -
autumn
spring species
spring cultivars
So will start with top-5 autumn
Crocus scharojanii flavus - one of earliest, only scharojanii typica is earlier
Crocus autranii - possibly more as rarity
Crocus banaticus SNOWDRIFT - not easy to select between this and FIRST SNOW (much earlier, but smaller) and typical blue.
Crocus wattiorum - nerimaniae possibly better, but I haven't so good picture.
Crocus mathewii - especially the selection in front - with rounded petals, large throat and deep purple fl. tube
Janis
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I agree with everyone else : this is one hell of a difficult task.
Let me also have a try anyway :
Crocus heufelianus "Carpathan Wonder"
Crocus biflorus nubigena
Crocus sieberi sieberi
Crocus biflorus melantherus
Crocus sieberi 'Hubert Edelsten'
And my God.... there's so many others !!! :-\
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Ah ha, a lovely pic of wattiorum. I saw some lovely pics of this species last week in David Millward's talk. :) BTW, he says that Crocus pelistericus produces its seed pods in Sepember on 50cm stems! :o
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Oh, my internet. For third time I’m writing second part of my “Poll-5”.
So top-5 spring species:
Crocus aerius is my most loved annulate crocus (with basal tunic rings) although others of this group are so beautiful, that is very difficult to select some;
Crocus ancyrensis is excellent, but nothing can be compared with brown colored form from surroundings of Tokat in Turkey;
Crocus graveolens is variable, too, but this form is simply superb, possibly can be surpassed by very similar in color but much more floriferous C. korolkowii DYTISCUS;
Crocus baytopiorum belongs to my favorites between blue spring bloomers;
Crocus cvijicii is one of my favorites, too but very rare cream colored form of it surpasses everything.
Janis
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The third and last top-5 – spring blooming cultivars
There are some varieties raised by me, but they are my real favorites (and many others of course, too):
Crocus biflorus x Snow Crystal – my seedling of open pollinated Dutch “chrysanthus” cultivar.
Crocus chrysanthus Sunspot – unsurpassed, possibly only black anthered can to compare. I’m trying to cross both to receive black stigma and black anthers in same flower
Crocus heuffelianus Carpathian Wonder – no comments
Crocus sieberi Cretan Snow – smaller than Bowles’ White but fertile
Crocus x gotoburgensis – so variable, not easy to select some of those beauties selected in Gothenburg BG (put it here as was short in space (limited by five) instead of C.palistericus and scardicus in previous mail)
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Ah ha, a lovely pic of wattiorum. I saw some lovely pics of this species last week in David Millward's talk. :) BTW, he says that Crocus pelistericus produces its seed pods in September on 50cm stems! :o
Here in Latvia seeds of both C. pelistericus and scardicus (and their hybrid - C. gotoburgensis, too) ripes only in September, but stalks is ~20-25 cm long (tall)
Janis
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I'm looking forward to my 'Carpathian Wonder' flowering again next year.
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My Top five:
Crocus caspius
`` scharojanii
`` biflorus ssp.pulchricolor
`` scardicus
`` sieberi ssp.sieberi
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Janis
My choices were based on mostly available Crocus, not your rare and beautiful choices. I would love to have all Crocus mentioned in the various lists, but some will have to remain a dream.
So glad you have access to the internet and can show us such treasures. Not only beautiful plants, but beautifully photographed.
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Superb photos of some beautiful crocus, Janis. The C. x gotoburgensis look good enough to eat!
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Janis you are such a tease
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WOW
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Janis you are such a tease
I agree Mark. There should be a sanity clause! ::)
I like "gotoburgensis" too. I know some people hate it, but, I suspect, not enough to chuck (my) away. ;D
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Ah ha, a lovely pic of wattiorum. I saw some lovely pics of this species last week in David Millward's talk. :) BTW, he says that Crocus pelistericus produces its seed pods in September on 50cm stems! :o
Here in Latvia seeds of both C. pelistericus and scardicus (and their hybrid - C. gotoburgensis, too) ripes only in September, but stalks is ~20-25 cm long (tall)
Janis
I find that C. pelistericus produces its seed in June on 10cm stems.I am hoping my first pot of C. gotoburgensis will flower for the first time next spring.
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Stunning Crocus Janis !!!!!!!
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Oh, why, oh why, are we so tempted when asked such questions???
Here's my choice
Crocus mathewi - none other than the deep purple throated one
C niveus - the bicoloured form
C sieberi Firefly
C olivieri
C pelistericus - so fabulous a deep colour
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It is always so difficult to select just five but these are the ones I would not like to be without.
Crocus scardicus
Crocus scharojanii flavus
Crocus vallicola
Crocus gargaricus
Crocus mathewii
On second thoughts I would not like to be without any of the ones we grow and there are several (hundreds) I would like to add to our garden.
Janis your Crocus heufelianus "Carpathan Wonder" is one beauty.
I have not that taken with C. x "gotoburgensis" as it has not the beauty of its parents see this bulb log.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2005/290305/log.html
However I do remember Janis showing a picture of second generation seedlings raised from "gotoburgensis" and they were beautiful - mine have never set any seed but that is the reason I will hang on to them.
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Here are some pictures of Crocus pelistericus seed pods showing how long the stem has grown, as described in previous posts, and this happens surprisingly quickly so you need to be watching for them or you can miss the seeds.
I have never had seeds on our Crocus scardicus but some years they cross with C. pelistericus resulting in the hybrid C. x "gotoburgensis".
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Ian's list is a lovely selection too. 8)
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Ian when you are about to compost those ugly brown Crocus that everyone else lusts after put them in a box and I'll compost them for you ;D ;)
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They say 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. It's not true. It's in the eye of the bewanter.! Ian beholding these plants and we bewanting them. ;D
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I bewanting them, too, Anthony.
Thanks everyone for giving me more crocuses to dream about.
My five favorite crocuses (drawn from among the approximately one hundred sorts I grow; ask me again tomorrow and the choice might be different):
lawn tommies: the typical Crocus tommasinianus with a pewter exterior and bright amethyst interior; if I could have only crocus for late winter, this would be it.
Crocus speciosus: not only because it's easy, readily available, reliable, big, showy, fragrant, of beautiful color, but also because it blooms on my birthday.
The generally sterile plant in commerce under the name Crocus imperati; in our climate this is typically the earliest crocus of the new year in the garden; the contrast between the purple-black lines on the faded straw yellow of the exterior and the rich amethyst interior is a real treat for color-starved eyes in early winter. And this one is very fragrant, too.
Not a particular species, but the members of the saffron crocus group in general: the fragrances in this group are especially appealing. Crocus thomasii is particularly rich in this regard and C. oreocreticus has the typical saffron scent with an additional note of hyacinth. It's a keen pleasure to have a few in a cold frame so that when one lifts the light on a cold day one if greeted with that wonderful fragrance. I'm sure the saffron group crocuses I grow now will be much happier should a plant of Crocus mathewi appear to join them!
Dutch crocuses in general; although I've been accused of being a species snob simply because most of the plants I grow have botanical names, I'm nothing of the sort. What is going on with those people who dismiss these handsome plants as "blowzy" or "overblown" or with other pejorative comments? The intense dark purples are great, and a freshly opened bloom of one of the white-flowered cultivars is as beautiful as the bloom of Colchicum speciosum 'Album' to my eyes.
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I must be a snob!
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I must be a snob!
Mark, dear, we all KNEW that!
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Crocus "gotoborgensis" has been mentioned several times in this thread, and it prompts me to make two comments.
One comment concerns the name. To what exactly does this name refer? And can this name be accepted under the rules of nomenclature as a cultivar name or as some other sort of name? I think the rules are clear on the question of its use as a cultivar name: it is not admissible.
But can it be used as the name for all crocus hybrids of similar parentage? And if that usage is allowed, as gardeners we need to keep in mind that multiple clones will be making the rounds under that name.
I raise this issue because in the history of horticulture, there was a phase at the end of the nineteenth century and beginning of the twentieth century when amateur hybridizers routinely gave their hybrids Latin-form names. Although there is no second-guessing their intentions, in retrospect it often seems that they were using such names as what we would call cultivar names. However, some modern taxonomists use these names as group (lower case group) names for all hybrids of similar parentage.
One consequence of this is that if the first entity to be given this name was of a clonal nature, the identity of that original clone stands a chance of being lost when the same name is applied to other plants of similar parentage.
Does anyone know how many different clones of crocus "gotoborgensis" exist? Is anyone keeping track of them? Has the original "gotoborgensis" been lost in the shuffle?
My second comment also touches on the way history is repeating itself with this crocus. Those of you familiar with the history of hybridization of lilies or irises probably see something familiar in crocus "gotoborgensis": that cloudy, even muddy color pattern is typical of the colors produced when one parent has predominately anthoxanthin pigments and the other parent has anthocyanin pigments. The old crocus hybrid 'Advance' shows the same effect, as do many early lily and bearded iris hybrids.
It will be nice to see a whole range of crocuses in these unusual colors: they make a handsome extension of the usual crocus colors.
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My understanding is that it was named by Gothenburg Botanic garden who first raised the cross between Crocus pelistericus and C. scardicus. I cannot comment on the rules of nomenclature as I know nothing about them. I think however it refers to all the clones and not a specific one Here are the parents.
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Jim, I think there has been lax use of this name "gotoborgensis" and variations thereof in these pages..... the proper spelling has been discussed elsewhere but I believe the accepted name for bulbs of this cross is :
Crocus × gotoburgensis
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I think this naming is discussed in The Plantsman, Volume 1, part! March 2002, article by Brian Mathew, page 44......
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Thanks for the reference, Maggi. I went to the RHS site, found the table of contents for 2002, but Brian Mathew's article is evidently not on-line.
Can anyone point me to an on-line source?
And thanks, Maggi, for catching my spelling.
Sometimes I deliberately misspell things to provoke a response or comment, but this was not one of those times. However, in my five favorite crocuses post there is an example of that deliberate misspelling, and I'm still waiting to see if anyone notices and comments because it illustrates a spelling dilemma in nomenclature. ::) :o ;) ;)
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I have the issue and will write it out now - Maggi is about to so I'll not bother
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Thanks, Mark!
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The number of Plantsman articles available online is woefully restricted .... I searched quite extensively :(
I haven't got the Plantsman article to hand, (though Mark has and can comment if there is something vital missed out from this short report, written by Brian and taken from his Bulb Newsletter of 2000).... click to expand the image.....
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Jim,I think it unlikely that anybody would pick up on a spelling mistake in a post. The reality is that probably three quarters of posts on this and other sites contain spelling errors. This is because most people are amateurs not only at gardening with little botanical knowledge but both typing and computer use. It is also the case as with me that it is nearly fifty years since I studied English grammar and to say it is rusty is an understatement. Better a mis-spelt post than no post at all. Thank goodness for spell check.
A similar comment was made on whether it was acceptable to post a poor photograph,the point being that that was probably better than no picture at all.
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Tony's comments echo my own thoughts, Jim.
At times an error may be corrected or commented upon - particulary for a non-English speaker, in order to assist them ( and many ask for that to be done) but it is generally the case that for English speaking forumists, any errors, whether caused by " ignorance or incompetence" ( if I may make so forceful a description) are left lying.... after all, look at the case of you good folks in the USA.... you have a completely different mode of spelling to the UK forumists, and are certainly entitled to that.....if there were to be a grave bias towards English usage, (as in common use by the UK and Irish forumists, for example) then hours would be taken up each day by asking for or imposing changes .... such as "blousy" for your "blowzy", for instance! ;)
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Brian says there is almost nothing to distinguish C. scardicus and C. pelistericus except the usually wider and darker leaves of pelistericus. He says there is probably a case for merging the two into scardicus as two subspecies but there is little value in doing it. He says that scardicus is never likely to be commonly cultivated but there are some successful growers in Scotland where the cooler climate suits this Crocus.
Anyway back to the hybrid
The F1 vary very little with their mix of orange purple and bronze. The F2 have most variation including white with dark tips. Shown is 'Ember' that is dirty yellow with dark bronze tipped outers, bases and a hint of brown on the inner tips.
The hybrid was named by Robert Rolfe see AGS Bulletin 68, 2: 228 (2000)
Robert says
The first cross was made in '87. Henrick describes the colour as honey-blackberry with the most exciting being a white one with dark blue tips and bases. In '94 Henrick brough some corms to the UK when he went to the Wesy Yorks AGS conference.
Crocus x gotoburgensis R. Rolf, hybr. nov. an intermediate hybrid between C. scardicus Kasanin and C. pelistericus Pulevic, the leaves without a median stripe and the flowers light orange-yellow with violet-brown staining to the tips of the perianth segments and the perianthe tube: the colour more variable in the second generation, including violet-tinged white forms. Typus: cultivated material ex Goteborg Botanic Garden, exhibited on 6.3.1999 (Wisley)
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I do believe that the Gothenburg Botanic Garden may have named at least one clone of a Crocus x gotoburgensis second generation seedling. I am not sure that 'Ember' is one of those, or if this cultivar name was given by Robert when the plant was given an RHS joint rock garden plant committee award , made subject to the application of a cultivar name... a criterion often applied when an award is given.
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Brian says there is almost nothing to distinguish C. scardicus and C. pelistericus except the usually wider and darker leaves of pelistericus.
Sorry Mark, a slight misquote:
"Brian says there is almost nothing to distinguish C. scardicus and C. pelistericus except for the flower colour and the usually wider and darker leaves of pelistericus."
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I must be a snob!
I suspect I am too. At any rate I have no desire to grow them. Nor any form of C. speciosus for that matter.
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ah, but it wasnt a direct quote and I assumed everyone would know by now they are different colours
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The hybrid was named by Robert Rolfe see AGS Bulletin 68, 2: 228 (2000)
I do not think Robert actually named the cross, he just published its description. (how pedantic can you get I ask myself?)
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I do grow Crocus speciosus but only two cultivars. 'Albus' and 'Ainoaitchisoniiartabircassiopeconqueroroxonion'
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'Ainoaitchisoniiartabircassiopeconqueroroxonion'
This must be the longest plant name on record!
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It's the new cultivar named by me after buying a full collection of named cultivars from a Dutch bulb supplier
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Mark I had to laugh given my post 45 above. Now of to watch gardener of the decade.
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The hybrid was named by Robert Rolfe see AGS Bulletin 68, 2: 228 (2000)
I do not think Robert actually named the cross, he just published its description. (how pedantic can you get I ask myself?)
YEs, scope for more confusion here!! ::) When I see "The hybrid was named by xxxxxxx ", I take that to mean that the person mentioned is the one who "christened" the plant..... that is usually the meaning...........
the confusion arises here because Robert Rolfe writes the reports of Award Plants for the AGS Bulletin and, in this particular case, he is cited as the authority for the name....so in this instance the comment has a certain ambiguity.
(That is, short reports of plants given awards by the RHS Rock Garden Plant Committee, commonly known as "the Joint Rock Committee" because it has members from the RHS, AGS and SRGC)
So, to the Bulletin 68, No. 2 (200) page 228.......... where we find that Robert Rolfe wrote the type description..... I will append photos of the report presently.
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Sorry for photo quality, I hope it is still readable!
The report begins:
Crocus x gotoburgensis R. Rolfe 'Ember' P.C. Iridaceae
Shown at Harlow on 6th March 1999
Crocus scardicus was barely known in cultivation until the late 1960s and its close, but quite differently coloured violet relative C. pelistericus, only described in 1976......
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[attach=2]
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Tony's comments echo my own thoughts, Jim.
hours would be taken up each day by asking for or imposing changes .... such as "blousy" for your "blowzy", for instance! ;)
This is too funny Maggi. In my draft of that post, I had written blousy. But when I used the spell check function in "Post reply", it suggested blowzy. I took this to be one of those differences between usage over there and usage over here and changed it.
Believe me, I'm definitely of the message-is-more-important-than-the-medium school in these matters. The idea is more important than the way it is expressed. But one of the joys of an international forum is the wide insight it provides into things which we otherwise might not know about. I have huge admiration for those participants whose first language is one other than English, and every time I read their posts I keep asking myself "would I be able to do as well in their language?"
The several posts since my last post have effectively obviated much of the long post I was composing in the interim. But here's something to think about: should Crocus x gotoburgensis be shown to exist in nature, that that would reinforce the view that Crocus scardicus and C. pelistericus are conspecific. And if that view were adopted, the name Crocus x gotoburgensis would become obsolete except perhaps as a horticultural term.
One other thing to keep in mind: formal botanical nomenclature will not help us ("us" being gardeners) with the confusion which is likely to arise once hybrids of the x gotoburgensis sort become more common and more varied. A mongrel swarm is likely to result, and a single name will be woefully inadequate in keeping them straight. Someone needs to start naming and keeping track of these plants on a clonal level, don't you think?
More about the spelling error I "planted" later...
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ah, but it wasnt a direct quote and I assumed everyone would know by now they are different colours
Mark - I grovel. I misquoted you. After 3 days of email exchanges with British Gas my brain is numb & I should shut up.
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stop licking my shoes ;D No real need to grovel or apologise. The posts were fast and furious for a while
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Aren't blousy and blowsy two different words with different meanings? Blousy is what happened to Sam Fox after gravity won, whereas blowsy is someone after they've been dragged through a hedge backwards! ;D
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Jim,I think it unlikely that anybody would pick up on a spelling mistake in a post. The reality is that probably three quarters of posts on this and other sites contain spelling errors. This is because most people are amateurs not only at gardening with little botanical knowledge but both typing and computer use. It is also the case as with me that it is nearly fifty years since I studied English grammar and to say it is rusty is an understatement. Better a mis-spelt post than no post at all. Thank goodness for spell check.
Well, Tony, I think you've described me pretty well. If you want to see what I'm really like, pre-spell-check and unburdened by the demands of proper spelling, take a look at posts numbers 22, 23 and 24 in the "Re: Monocarpic - a valid term for bulbs" thread.
As you said, thank goodness for spell check; we just have to remember to use it before we blast off.
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Jim I have followed the mono-carpic thread with interest and thought this is a case to misquote where 'great minds will never think alike'
My typing skills were gained and then lost when I worked in an office at Manchester Docks which are in Salford.It was considered by my employer an area unsuitable for young women to work (this was 1969 when such chivalrous thoughts were allowed) and only males were employed. There were however lots of very unsuitable women in the area which was fairly exciting. In those days I was the junior and was sent to learn to touch type which was a complete failure and I have remained ever since a two finger typist.
I have not participated in the poll because although I like them all there is nothing to beat the one in flower now,whatever the day particularly if you are lying on a freezing mountainside in a blizzard looking at it in the wild.As has been said many times, you never forget the first one.
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Jim,I think it unlikely that anybody would pick up on a spelling mistake in a post.
Don't you believe it Tony, but then, I have been (rightly) accused of some anal retention in this regard. :)
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Maggi as was seen later the correct name is Göteborg rather than the one used in the first article. Borg is Swedish while burg is German.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2771.msg64622#msg64622
The others spelled it correctly.
Regarding top five I saw many lovely ones here but I still like the big Dutch ones especially when they produce there own version in the lawn.
Take care
Joakim
PS regarding spell check I have the feeling it is American spelling rather than british it goes by. I become Hakim (Turkish I presume) so it also has it´s faults.
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Maggi as was seen later the correct name is Göteborg rather than the one used in the first article. Borg is Swedish while burg is German.
Yes, Joakim, I know the city is Göteborg
but the name has been given in the written description as Crocus x gotoburgensis
...by the way, we in the UK use "burg ", also.....as in Edinburgh ! 8)
Re: Crocus Poll - Your top 5
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2008, 08:28:03 PM »
The report begins:
Crocus x gotoburgensis R. Rolfe 'Ember' P.C.
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Thanks to the 14 people who took part in the vote. The list is below
Maggi
Crocus gargaricus
Crocus mathewi
Crocus corsicus
Crocus sieberi atticus
Crocus boryi
Thomas
Crocus sieberi „Hubert Edelsten“
Crocus versicolor
Crocus medius
Crocus laevigatus
Crocus tournefortii
Arthur
Crocus mathewii
Crocus sieberi sieberi
Crocus banaticus
Crocus laevigatus
Crocus michelsonii
Gerry
Crocus cartwrightianus
Crocus niveus (white)
Crocus tournefortii
Crocus flavus
David Nicholson
Crocus goulimiy
Crocus boryi
Crocus kotschyanus
Crocus medius
Crocus speciosus 'Oxonion'
Lesley
Crocus minimus
Crocus sieberi sublimis f. tricolor
Crocus biflorus alexandri
Crocus nudiflorus
Crocus chrysanthus `Zwanenburg'
Zhirair
crocus vernus Dutch hybrids
crocus pulchellus 'Zephyr'
crocus speciosus
crocus niveus
crocus goulimyi 'Mani White'
Otto
Crocus banaticus
Crocus vallicola
Crocus sieberi ssp. sieberi
Crocus minimus ,the Col de Bavella form
Crocus mathewii
Janis
Crocus scharojanii flavus
Crocus autranii
Crocus banaticus SNOWDRIFT
Crocus wattiorum
Crocus mathewii
Luc
Crocus heufelianus "Carpathan Wonder"
Crocus biflorus nubigena
Crocus sieberi sieberi
Crocus biflorus melantherus
Crocus sieberi 'Hubert Edelsten'
Dirk
Crocus caspius
Crocus scharojanii
Crocus biflorus ssp.pulchricolor
Crocus scardicus
Crocus sieberi ssp.sieberi
Dave M
Crocus mathewi
Crocus niveus - the bicoloured form
Crocus sieberi Firefly
Crocus olivieri
Crocus pelistericus
Ian Young
Crocus scardicus
Crocus scharojanii flavus
Crocus vallicola
Crocus gargaricus
Crocus mathewii
Jim Mckenny
Crocus tommasinianus
Crocus speciosus
Crocus imperati
Crocus oreocreticus
Dutch Crocus
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The top 5 are
6 votes Crocus mathewi
4 votes Crocus sieberi sieberi
2 votes crocus vernus Dutch hybrids
2 votes Crocus vallicola
2 votes Crocus tournefortii
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..... and thanks to our Pollmaster for keeping a note.
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Thanks David
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I'd have thought there would be a much wider range chosen.... an interesting excercise, thanks ,Mark 8)
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You seem to have a lot of spare time Mark. ;D
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Not really. I was multi tasking - coffee (real ::)), googling for 24V transformer for lights, Scottish Rocking ...
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Not really. I was multi tasking -
Clever you! The ability to do this is usually only displayed by women. Not that coffee can be called a "task" :-\
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Not really. I was multi tasking -
Clever you! The ability to do this is usually only displayed by women. Not that coffee can be called a "task" :-\
I don't know, getting through a cup of bad coffee can be pretty tasking!
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Too many coffee shops especially big names on high streets and those in airports sell poor quality coffee
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Not really. I was multi tasking - coffee (real ::)), googling for 24V transformer for lights, Scottish Rocking ...
You're a man of many talents Mark ! ;D
Thanks for the exercise !
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Not really. I was multi tasking -
Clever you! The ability to do this is usually only displayed by women. Not that coffee can be called a "task" :-\
I don't know, getting through a cup of bad coffee can be pretty tasking!
Many grounds for complaint.
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Cliff,
And here I was, going to comment about it being part of the daily grind! ::)
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Maggi my comment of the city name was due to the article calling it Göteburg Botanic garden. The other is a latinised form I presume.
Yes in Scotland there are a lot of Nordic expressions so having a burgh is not surprising but that may have been from the Germanic base in the English language? I think the spelling may have varied a lot at the time of the Nordic presence in Scottland so it can not be ruled out from that but maybe on the age of the city?
I presume there is a similar word in Dutch but can not think of any name of a city with it.
The Danes have an island named Borgholm that is close to Sweden as well as a city Ålborg or the alternative spelling Aalborg that also make a good flavoured aquavit (schnapps). ::)
All the best
Joakim
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I presume there is a similar word in Dutch but can not think of any name of a city with it.
Tilburg - in the south.
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Thanks for that Gerry now we have it there as well. ;D
Is there an English term like burgh meaning castle in to days English? Is there a city name in England that has burg/burgh in that meaning ?
Sorry for the lack of English geography knowledge. ::) :-[
Kind regards
Joakim
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Thanks for that Gerry now we have it there as well. ;D
Is there an English term like burgh meaning castle in to days English? Is there a city name in England that has burg/burgh in that meaning ?
Sorry for the lack of English geography knowledge. ::) :-[
Kind regards
Joakim
Would Aldeburgh qualify? (or Chris de Burgh)! :) Oops, he is Irish.
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Joakim, place names in the UK ending with the modern 'bury of burgh and sometimes bury' are normally derived from the Old English word 'burh' meaning 'a fortified place' or 'a defended place'. Some of these places were defended in pre Anglo Saxon times and there may well be a Celtic element in the word 'burh'. When the Normans came in 1066 it was sometimes in these defended places that they chose to build castles. Old English developed from the forms of speech used by the Anglo Saxon invaders from around 500AD and as such had a 'Germanic' root but it is highly likely that their speech was influenced by Scandinavian invaders. So modern English has developed from all of those races who have 'clobberd' us in the past including Picts, Scots, Anglo Saxons, Danes, Norse, French, Romans together with forms of Celtic speech used by the indigenous Britains who lived the country prior to Roman times, the nearest equivalent of which is the Welsh language today.
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Joakim, place names in the UK ending with the modern 'bury of burgh and sometimes bury' are normally derived from the Old English word 'burh' meaning 'a fortified place' or 'a defended place'. Some of these places were defended in pre Anglo Saxon times and there may well be a Celtic element in the word 'burh'. When the Normans came in 1066 it was sometimes in these defended places that they chose to build castles. Old English developed from the forms of speech used by the Anglo Saxon invaders from around 500AD and as such had a 'Germanic' root but it is highly likely that there speech was influenced by Scandinavian invaders. So modern English has developed from all of those races who have 'clobberd' us in the past including Picts, Scots, Anglo Saxons, Danes, Norse, French, Romans together forms of Celtic speech used by the indigenous Britains who lived the country prior to Roman times, the nearest equivalent of which is the Welsh language today.
[attach=1] Thanks, David!
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Just to add a little more useless information! Edinburgh means 'fortification at Eidyn'. Just like taxonomists place name experts have differing views. Some think the 'Eidyn' bit refers 'Edwin's fort', Edwin being King of Northumbria from 617 to 633. Others say the the name is recorded before his time. In c1180 a document records the name of what is now Edinburgh as 'Edenburge'
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Just like taxonomists place name experts have differing views.
And just like a lot of the names taxonomists coin, Edinburgh isn't pronounced the way it looks (or at any rate, the way it looks to me).
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More off-topic & useless information - the Duke of Edinburgh's family name is Mountbatten, formerly Battenberg. Posting this was a piece of cake.
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It's pronounced quite differently in various parts of the UK too Jim. In some places the first syllable can be pronounced 'Eden', or 'Edan' or 'Edn', or 'Edin' all with a 'hard' initial 'E'. The second syllable is sometimes 'brhu' or 'burra', 'boora'. So you see we aren't consistent either!
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The city of my birth is often called, simply, " Embra " ::)
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Much better than Edin-burrow
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Arggh Mark. :o Never, ever that! :( Ed-in-bruh is how most of us say it, or, perhaps, -burruh?
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I dont say that. It's what North Americans call it
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I dont say that. It's what North Americans call it
Indeed they do, or sometimes ....Eddinberg...... No matter, we know what they mean 8)
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Just to add a little more useless information! Edinburgh means 'fortification at Eidyn'. Just like taxonomists place name experts have differing views. Some think the 'Eidyn' bit refers 'Edwin's fort', Edwin being King of Northumbria from 617 to 633. Others say the the name is recorded before his time. In c1180 a document records the name of what is now Edinburgh as 'Edenburge'
This only goes to prove that we North Americans are probably pronouncing it correctly when we say Edin-burrow. As Arthur points out, the Ed is King Edwin and the place is where he holed-up. Just apply a bit of folk etymology and you'll be able to imagine Ed in his burrow. Things might have ended differently if he had stayed holed up there and not gone forth to the Battle of Hatfield Chase.
I'm pretty sure the folks in Edinburgh, Texas pronounce it Eddinberg: don't mess with Texas!
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don't mess with Texas!
We Scots are afraid of no one... probably often to our cost, :-X but the motto, nemo me impune lacessit.... freely translated to the vernacular as "wha daur meddle wi' me" ( who dares to meddle with me?) is well chosen, I think. 8)
(This motto of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, the Scottish chivalrous order, is also that of the British Army regiments The Royal Regiment of Scotland, Scots Guards and Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. It was also the motto of several former units of the British Army, including the Royal Scots, Royal Scots Greys, Royal Highland Fusiliers and Black Watch, some of which went on to be amalgamated to form the Royal Regiment of Scotland in 2006. Armed forces units elsewhere have also adopted this historic motto, including in Australia, the Victoria Scottish Regiment, which subsequently became 5th Battalion Royal Victoria Regiment and is now one of the rifle companies of 5th/6th Battalion Royal Victoria Regiment. The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, a reserve infantry regiment of the Canadian Forces, also bears this motto. )
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As you say, Maggi, there's often a clue... ;)
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How about 'Auld Reekie'? Get yer gums around that Jim. ;D
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However I do remember Janis showing a picture of second generation seedlings raised from "gotoburgensis" and they were beautiful - mine have never set any seed but that is the reason I will hang on to them.
Oh Ian, how beautiful can be C. x gotoburgensis you can see on following pictures. Unfortunately only #04 I have by myself.
#05,06 is named by its raiser 'Henrik' - unfortunately it almost doesn't increase and after many years there are only 3 or 4 corms. Of course - they all are F-2.
Janis
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Although I usually prefer species, these are astonishingly beautiful - especially the last one.
Many thanks Jānis for all the fine crocus pictures and information you are posting.
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WOW!!! 8) 05/06 is a real beauty. What a shame it doesn't increase much.
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WOW!!! 8) 05/06 is a real beauty. What a shame it doesn't increase much.
My own favourite is 02/03 and 05/06 as second choice
Janis
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Dear friends,
I just got following mail from my Lithuanian friend with picture attached:
"Two year ago I bought "white flowering form" of Crocus vitellinus. I was not sure, that that is true C. vitellinus because never heard about C. vitellinus with white flowers. I though that they are possible the plants of hybrid origin, but was surprised they was really C. vitellinus with specific leaves and all signs of true species. They are exclusively beautiful plants in flowering. I send you a picture. Have you any information about this form existing."
Have you some idea? I never saw such vitellinus.
Janis
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Janis it is the one in pictures 5/6 that is burnt deep into my memory - a stunningly beautiful Crocus definitely in my top 5.
Some of these other forms you show are also very nice plants indeed.
That is why I will put up with the slightly muddy, purple/brown/yellow forms that I have raised from seeds so far.
Thanks for showing these.
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:o :o :o Janis wonderful plants thanks for sharing - not a lot of these about. In terms of lack of vigour it is a little surprising as I always thought hybridising gave more vigour, though I suppose neither parent is particularly vigorous.
Ah one day I might get scardicus and I could try to hybridise these myself :(
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Janis,
Stunning hybrids!! Wow. :o
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Sorry for the late reply but I have been off line for a while.
Nice C x gotoburgensis 8) Janis thanks for showing them, very lovely.
David et al thanks for the lesson about burgh very intersting. We have the same meaning of fortified place for borg even if it now also is a knights castle type Ivanhoe for kids toys. Göteborg is much younger than the time of knights and since the founding king Died 1632 and got to power 1611 it was well after the time of knights.
By the way the Nordic way of saying Edinburgh would be the same as the north American way :-[.
Nice learning
Joakim
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Gosh, how did I miss seeing these. I'm definitely not worther to grow such rarities, but intend to try the hybrid x gotoburgensis when I can get hold of some.
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WOW!!! 8) 05/06 is a real beauty. What a shame it doesn't increase much.
My own favourite is 02/03 and 05/06 as second choice
Janis
Janis
my favorite is 01 Thanks for the pics
Dom
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Seeing all these wonderful croci makes me want to keep trying - despite my warm temperate climate. At present my top five are:
#1 - what's a crocus? ::)
#2 - what's a crocus? ::)
#3 - what's a crocus? ::)
#4 - what's a crocus? ::)
#5 - what's a crocus? ::)
;)
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Do we mean the top five we actually grow? or the top five we would like to grow if we #A could lay our hands on a corm #B were able to grow them?
The last one shown by Janis would be one of them.
Of those I have grown my top five would be:
Speciosus
Speciosus albus,
'Ladykiller'
'Princess Beatrix'
Banaticus (which I find difficult)
This is the list of the uninitiated. :-[
Most crocus are very beautiful so the choice is difficult.
German Burg Swedish borg means castle (never city) just as Joakim writes. However, since medieval towns often started around castles many towns all over Europe From Burgos to Borgå
got burg in their name. Göteborg probably got its name because it was well fortified. The word also has a general flavour of safety in Swedish. Derivates of the word are used in guarantees of loans.
I assume that the Romans introduced the word castellum for the original meaning of fortress and thus, in the English language, Burgh, Borough came to mean town only.
Göte