Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Seeds Wanted => Topic started by: Roberto Gamoletti on June 27, 2008, 05:20:48 PM
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Dear friends
I have tried several times to germinate trillium seeds from the SRGC seed exchange without success; I believe that fresh collected seeds would give better results. Is there anyone in the forum who could share a few seeds with me?
Thank you
Roberto
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Roberto:
It is certainly the case that the seed of ALL Trillium species is ephemeral and needs to be sown fresh or moist packed soon after collection to retain viability.
Are you looking for any particular species? I could offer T. grandiflorum, T. erectum and T. undulatum.
If you will write me personally with your address and which ones interest you, I can send them once they are collected.
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Roberto I have Trillium rivale, if you would like some send me a pm
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Robert,
Depending how long ago you tried this, you still could have viable seed. Last spring I had 3 different years of sowings germinate at the same time (that is 2, 3, and 4 year old seed) as the conditions were obviously "just right" for germination. So the seed you sowed may still be there waiting for the right year, then you'll suddenly have seedlings in what you thought were dead seed pots. ;D
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Roberto
Paul touches on a good point.
I've kept records of all seed i have sown from April 06 --the total so far is 487 mostly different sps of bulbs ,alpines and woodlanders .
Quite a few have been trillium seeds ---some of those that have germinated only recently are from the NZ Trillium Group seedlist sown 27 May 06.
I've also had some germination recently of Trillium L seed sown Nov 05.
So i'd be in no hurry to throw out any old pots.
However your comment is specifically about SRGC seed--a check of my book shows Trillium kurabayashii and T. tschonoskii himalaicum from SRGC seed sown 10 Jan 07 have germinated ,yet T. cuneatum hasn't.
I'm uncertain of your climate zone --how dry do your pots get in summer?.
Dave
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I would have to agree with Paul and Dave, I have had Trillium seed take 5 years to germinate. I always keep the pots aside for some years and then even when I empty them put them in one area - it is amazing what germinates after, sometimes 7 or 8 years.
I read in the paper the other day about a date palm that has germinated after 2000 years. Scientists used radiocarbon dating to confirm that an ancient Judean date palm seed among those found in the ruins of Masada in present-day Israel and planted three years ago is 2,000 years old -- the oldest seed ever to germinate. The seed has grown into a healthy, 4-foot-tall seedling.
What are we complaining about - having to wait a couple of years!
Susan.
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I can share seeds Trillium camschatcense when they will ripen. ;)
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Dear friends
Thank you very much for your suggestions and offers of seeds. I have always kept the sown trillium seeds for a few years before discarting but never more than 3-4 years. I keep them watered also in summer ( here in Italy July is very hot and dry). My results have been poor to date and I have 3-5 seedlings alive. I have always sown the seeds in pots covered with grit. Should I sow directly in the ground?
Sincerely
Roberto
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I'm interested in the answer to this question too. I seem to recall someone at an AGS AGM held in Pudsey selling Trillium seed which he has keeping not in seed packets but between 2 pieces of damp kitchen roll. I have never collected Trillium seed before but one of ours seems to have set seed this year, do I wait until the seed pods split before harvesting?
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Shelagh, I would keep a close eye on your Trillium seedpods.... they can split very suddenly, or wasps can bust into them and steal the seeds. Ants also will steal seeds! Give the pods a gentle squeeze every day and take them off at the first sign of splitting. Or you could tie a little muslin bag over each pod to protect the seeds....always worth saving seed from these treasures, anyway.
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Roberto,
I have always sown mine with a covering of 3-5mm sized gravel. It keeps down the weeds, keeps in the moisture, and allows air in around the seeds. The fresher the seed the better in general, although dry seed by no means indicates it won't germinate. I find that dry seeds usually takes longer to germinate, but it depends how long it has been dry (and therefore how dry it really is). Seed packed into small plastic bags stays reasonably well, but packed into damp kitchen paper keeps it moist and plump and fresh.
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Muslin bags Maggi, is that what you do in the dark winter nights up there in the north? Perhaps you could run a workshop at the Discussion Weekend, do you use lazy daisy stitch or what?!?!?
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Muslin bags Maggi, is that what you do in the dark winter nights up there in the north? Perhaps you could run a workshop at the Discussion Weekend, do you use lazy daisy stitch or what?!?!?
Shelagh, I could not possibly comment about northern winter activities, though most of you know I spend most of my evenings right here! :P
My suggestion of muslin bags, was, I admit, a counsel of perfection, not a statement of true action on my part! :-[ ;)
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Far from being a expert on bags could not a tea bag be used? One that was not used open it and use the tea and then put that above the seed pod. I have not tested it before but I have heard of others that have.
Good luck
Joakim
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Far from being a expert on bags could not a tea bag be used? One that was not used open it and use the tea and then put that above the seed pod. I have not tested it before but I have heard of others that have.
Good luck Joakim
Yes, I use tea bags on hepaticas setting seed to stop them dropping off into the next pot. They are used and partially dried, and then I cut off a diagonal corner and empty the contents. They then slip over a few seed heads. I have also used square of fleece, gathered at the corners, the seed pods put in the centre and a piece of string to tie it on. Sounds fiddly, but saves a lot of wasted seed.
Or is this a very sad way to spend my time ::) ::)
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Roberto,
Send me a private message with your address and I can probably send some seed of most of the Southeastern US species and a few of the Appalachian mountain ones also.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville
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I have quite a few fresh Trillium grandiflorum and T. g. roseum seeds for anyone who emails me their home address (privately).
Anthony.
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In the past when I grew a great many different plants from seed, I never felt that trillium presented any particular difficulty. To call it "ephemeral" is imho a gross exaggeration! True ephemerals such as willows (Salix) are viable for at best a few days, in great contrast to trillium seed.
My routine practice with trillium seeds (and many others) was this: first, soak the seed in water with a drop or two of liquid dishwashing liquid added as a wetting agent. I would soak for a minimum of a week, sometimes as long as a month.
Whenever the water became cloudy, I would rinse the seeds in a fine sieve under a hard spray of tap water, and then put them to soak further in fresh water.
The seeds were sown by pressing into the surface of a lightly compacted soil based mix. It is important to use a soil based seed compost, as the seeds and seedlings will be in the pot for as long as several years, and soilless mixes (for example, those based on peat) deteriorate into soggy anaerobic splodge before then.
The seed pots were top dressed with 10–15 mm of fine gravel and placed in a covered, shady coldframe. I do not recall how long germination took, but I'm pretty sure in some cases at least it took place the following year.
The young trilliums needed to be kept in their seed pot for at least another year until they formed their first true leaves. At that time they were (very delicately!) pricked out, but I found that they will reach maturity faster if planted out in a nursery bed after forming a true leaf.
These seeds were from various exchanges, so the seed had been in storage since the previous summer when it ripened, always dry, sometimes refrigerated. Sowing took place in the December-February time frame.
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Hello and Welcome Rodger,
Language is a tricky thing---and the word "ephemeral" might be misleading/confusing/not theoretically correct when compared to seed that dies almost instantly when it dries out, such as Salix...
However, most folks understand that what is meant by the term is that a seed cannot (or ideally, should not) undergo long-term dry storage. I've heard the term "hydrophyllic seed" suggested. An idea.
When discussing longevity of Trillium seed it becomes necessary to talk species, of course. The research is fairly clear that *most* species can tolerate dry storage for 2-3 months, but viability drops off significantly after that. There are exceptions (nivale, viridescens, stamineum etc.) still give decent germination up to about 6 months dry, room-temperature storage. And of course dry stored T. rivale seed can remain viable for even longer (about 8 months).
But as a general rule, the genus has not evolved to be resistant to extended drying.
As one Trillium man states about the seed:
"They develop in moist berries, in the shade, in mesic woodlands and have no adaptations for long-range migration. They must tolerate semi-arid conditions in the litter of summer woodlands, but occasional rain, and frequent dew prevent complete desiccation."
So, if given a choice, why dry store them at all?
Maintaining optimum vigour of Trillium seed means constant moisture from the moment of collection. Thus handled, many species (including T. grandiflorum) will have germinated by late autumn of the same year they were collected.
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Further to my last post, I would like to share these photos of germination of various Trillium species from this season. The 2008 collection date is noted on the zip lock bag; seed has been kept consistently hydrated since collection.
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and a few more...
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Well done Kristl. Well done!! :D
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Would this germinated seeds after planting survive a winter by going dormant or do they need to be stored frost free? That is for sorts that can take frost.
Very nice result You have.
Kind regards
Joakim