Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Catwheazle on November 02, 2018, 08:19:09 AM
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Hello,
I know it is very difficult, but I hope that the possibilities are not too many.
For several years there is a crocus in my garden, which always begins to grow in October.
Possibly a plant from SRGC seeds, which seems to inncrease and multiply slowly.
Unfortunately it has never flowered, even in spring.
What kind could it be? What can I do to make it blossom next year? (The picture is from today)
thx and greetings
Bernd
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Hello,
I know it is very difficult, but I hope that the possibilities are not too many.
For several years there is a crocus in my garden, which always begins to grow in October.
Possibly a plant from SRGC seeds, which seems to inncrease and multiply slowly.
Unfortunately it has never flowered, even in spring.
What kind could it be? What can I do to make it blossom next year? (The picture is from today)
thx and greetings
Bernd
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Looks like a cluster of seedlings. Must be an autumn lowering species with this much leaf now. There are a number of possibilities so it is difficult to say which species. What can you do? Maybe give some feed, as it's in the garden maybe a granular or powdered feed to be washed down by rain. Sulphate of potash later in the growing season should help towards flowering. If it's been there for some years, maybe you should consider moving them, best done when dormant. More sunny place, drier place? I don't know but you can consider somewhere in the garden slightly different conditions perhaps?
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My C. banaticus are already faded, but they do not have any leaves yet.
Maybe it is possible to narrow down the possible species?
Bernd
Addendum: I've looked through the Crokus pictures here from October, where the leaves are present (there are many more than I thought) and then looked at my old lists. I think it could be Crocus niveus.
I also donated a little fertilizer. Now I only have to wait another year :-(
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Yesterday only 3 crocuses were pictured. Still cartwrightianus from Naxos continue to surprise - Yesterday I photographed 8th and 9th flowers (attached here) but today 10th bud showed nose out. There are 2 shoots from this corm, but it is almost incredible.
Another "yellow" bud comes out from Crocus pumilus. This is the darkest yellow ever seen in autumn (out of scharojanii and lazicus), pity, when flower will open it will pale.
And last two pictures - the darkest goulimyi in my collection.
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Few pictures from last week:
Another slightly yellowish C. pumilus - stock from Antoine Hoog
And then 3 pictures of Crocus robertianus from different places
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Now last pictures from my reserve, not shown before - all are blue coloured autumn species.
Still last "speciosus" are blooming - here sakariensis
Crocus salzmannii 15PTGS-031 from Portugal is one of the latest. Surprised by its blooming because it didn't grow well last season, corms were small.
Separating of serotinus group species isn't easy - here type of Crocus serotinus serotinus from Cabo de Sao Vincence, collected for me by my English friend.
And as last - Crocus thomasii 15ITS-006 from Italy (continental part).
When will come next pictures - I have no idea - depends from weather - temperature and sun. Some from Middle East still not started blooming, but in general my autumn crocus season approximates to end.
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349.821 : CROCUS PALLASII (subsp pallasii) * Ukraine, Krim, Kaya-Bash heights, 300m.
Seeds from: Jenny Archibald EXCLUSIVE SEEDS : JANUARY 2011
Sowing: Dec. 2011
Pictures: 2nd Nov. 2018
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345.212 : CROCUS GOULIMYI from SELECTED VARIANTS * Greece, Lakonia, N of Areopoli. (From several clones selected in the wild : scented, deeply coloured, bicoloured and ‘white stigma’ forms.)
Sowing: Oct 2009
First flowering: Nov 2011
Pictures: 4 Nov 2018
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Yesterday visited my greenhouse - to give some rest for my eyes due sitting all the day at computer, registering notes made during season. There will be several new species sometimes published, easy separable from related plants.
Mostly was surprised for still abundant blooming of Crocus xantholaimos. So I start with it and some others from speciosus group. All were shown before, but they are last flowers giving some "milestones" showing blooming time and its length.
Next is the last flower of Crocus archibaldiorum, showing its characteristic outside striping. Today again starts warmer period and may be it will open.
Crocus hellenicus from Varnakovo belongs to the latest from speciosus group.
The last in this entry - still unidentified from Iran, growing halfway between C. archibaldiorum and C. zubovii.
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Next 3 pictures shows C. pulchellus from Chios Island - the first two are those which were collected with some hope that may be will be "biflorus" of Saliaris, as were collected just at spots where he mentioned them. The third is from my first trip to this island.
Last two pictures represent beautiful form of Turkish pallasii, presented to me by my friend Vaclev Jost. Unfortunately he didn't marked from where it comes... so not very great botanical value in my collection apart of exceptional beauty, for which I'm very thankful to him.
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The last entry and last pictures from yesterday. Still some crocuses not started blooming, between them very late C. moabiticus. I wait for its flowers coming out to bring it into room for pollinating. Almost always it blooms in so dark, cool, moist period that flowers in greenhouse not open.
But now I start with another pallasii. Many years ago I tried to cross C. pallasii from Chios Island, which most likely is different species, as pollen parent (I Used clone 'Homeri' with black anthers) with form of pallasii s.l. from W Turkey, from near Labranda which is one of the most beautiful pallasii s.l. Here you can see that one of seedlings inherited black colour from Chios sample.
The next represents tiny late bloomer - Crocus veneris. Small but nice crocus from Cyprus.
I already showed mine deepest purple C. goulimyi, now its flowers are more open. Crocus goulimyi almost finished here - very few flowers still left.
And last two are Crocus cartwrightianus cretense - the first I got from Jim Archibald, the second from Erich Pasche. I'm not genetic and I still didn't understand - are this different from other cartwrightianus or not. If I understood correctly last publication about phylogeny of C. sativus group, genetically it is quite variable species and one plant from Crete turned very close to C. sativus. But earlier several times showed yellowish form from Naxos continue surprise me - now it showed 11th flower from the same corm.
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All the day is cloudy with some drops of water in the air. I lost last hopes to see some sun shining regardless of weather broadcasts during all passed week. So today left only to clean off old flowers. Still blooms some species - niveus, serotinus, some pallasii forms, goulimyi,. robertianus, very last of tournefortii, sakariensis and xantholaimos. Still is blooming yellowish cartwrightianus from Naxos Island - now the 13th flower bud comes out! At least they opens even in such weather and stay open all the time. In full bloom are melantherus, laevigatus and pumilus, but their flowers dies remaining without opening - weather is so wet and dark.
I don't like bringing pots inside. Single exception is necessity to make controlled pollination. So today I did this with two species. One of them was Crocus hyemalis (pictures of it here). Of course - I used occasion to make some pictures. Immediately after opening, pollination, pots were brought outside, pictured and after photo-session brought back to greenhouse. Even my cat came to check, what I'm doing, but seeing that there are no mice for her, went back to her house.
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The second species brought inside for a pair of hours was Crocus moabiticus. Last autumn it didn't open at all, so now, seeing well developed buds, I brought in 2 samples of it and after opening of flowers maid cross pollination between both. After that pots were returned to greenhouse. Now at least I hope to get some seeds.
Tomorrow will do the same with some pumilus, veneris and aleppicus pots.
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definitely a jewel :P
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May be following are the last pictures of this year. Weather still very dark and no lighter hours offered, only slow dropping of temperature during following 2 weeks up to minus 1-2 C.
Today I brought in two more pots to force opening of flowers. For hermoneus it was too late, flowers opened with segments bent down, but marvellous yellow pumilus showed all spectrum of flower colour changes. Of course - during blooming yellow fades and at end disappear at all.
In the last picture red stickers show pots where are crocuses which could be new, still unpublished species. In spring they will receive special attention.
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very nice form of pumilus!!
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Today noted that large flowerbuds of Crocus hittiticus are out! It starts blooming at New Year quite often, but never so early. By the way, my Japan friend who got from me one corm of pink C. alatavicus wrote me shortly ago, that its flowerbud already showed nose out, too. From other spring blooming crocuses large leaves has C. imperatii, but for it this is nothing special. More I'm surprised for leaves of C. biflorus from Italy, Crocus punctatus and C. babadagensis - never before was recorded so early germination. Weather still is very dark and moist, so no flowers are opening and today I made last watering of all plants this season. Next week some frost is offered. In Moscow already is minus 7-9 C and quite often it reaches us, too. We are joking that all problems and bad things are coming here from East...
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I observed the same here in a frame that was covered by many leaves. The longest is a shoot of Crocus michelsonii. It is a about 5 cm long. But also Crocus alatavicus, hittiticus, punctatus and others are out.
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By me the most advanced spring Crocus is sakaltutanensis, its flower buds are showing some colours. Others showing noses are abantensis, gembosii, michelsonii, baytopiorum, some chrysanthus cultivars and of course suaveolens which have both long leaves and flower buds.
Crocus laevigatus CEH 612 have just started flowering. There is still a few flowers on Crocus caspius and tournefortii and in the open garden goulimyi and a late speciosus cultivar has still a few flowers.
Narcissus Cedric Morris is also very early this year. It will probably open its flowers in a week or so.
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I returned from Greece two days ago, but had too much and heavy job in home building small new shed, only 3x6 m large, but it was physically very heavy job, and in evenings I had no power to sit at computer. Still left to finish roof, but today I haven't helper, so I can get some rest.
About Greece. Was my trip successful? Difficult to tell, more I tend to direction of "not". At first we visited city/village KROKOS (S of Kozani) - place where saffron crocus is grown in Greece. Harvesting was already almost finished and only after long criss-cross driving we found a field where still were flowers, but the last ones. Saffron there is planted deep - seem around 20 cm. But this allows to cultivate top-soil after end of vegetation at depth of around 5-7 cm and to keep field clean from weeds. There are reported around 1000 farmers/citizens having some field where saffron is cultivated, but this year crop was very small - due extremely dry weather. It was harvested only around 20 % of average. One of farmers allowed for us to collect few corms, although it was not easy as subsoil where crocuses were planted was very hard and dry. Roots still were not formed or not more than 10 mm long. Actually I was very happy for this, as one of my Iranian correspondents, University professor, are working on cytology of various C. sativus samples and will be very happy for sample from Greece.
On pictures C. sativus fields, flowers as they grow and when the stigmas are collected...
Driving there must be careful as the region is famous place where wild bears are living and everywhere on roadsides are large warning shields.
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Then we drove to Vikos Canyon. The first spot was Papingo (Papigo, Papigho) - the fields where some years ago were thousands of Crocus hadriaticus flowers. After long search I found one plant with already wilted flowers. Checking corm - it had no roots yet. Soil was dry and very hard. Of course no hellenicus were seen there (it was recorded from surroundings). At Monodendri after long search one wilted flower of hellenicus were found and corm was without roots, too. No one flower of Sternbergia sicula were seen. In 2014 there were plenty of its flowers. Our visit there in 2014 was 2 weeks earlier - at end of October. There are plenty of beautiful landscapes, amazing bridges built over streams in XVIII-XIX century.
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Next day greeted us with heavy rains, almost non-stop. We drove to Perama, where visited famous cave (entry inside city, exit on hill-top over city). It is 1100 m long and reported as longest walk inside cave in Greece - walking from entry to exit takes 1 hour. At least inside cave we were saved from non-stop rain outside it. At exit there were plenty of Crocus hadriaticus with wilted flowers. No one fresh were seen. Only Sternbergias had some fresh flower, but rain not allowed to make some good pictures, and really there were no one flower of crocuses worth to picture. They had good leaves and corms were laying very shallow, in porous still dust dry (regardless of rain) soil. Pushing by leaves it was easy to take them out of soil as there were no roots or only few mm long root initials. By flower remnants they resembled forms from Papingo, which looks quite different from Southern large growing plants. Was it for dry conditions, or they really are different - will show comparing in collection, where they will be grown side by side.
I just checked internet about growing of saffron in Greece and found there that near Krokos there are grown 545 hectares (more than 1300 acres) with C. sativus. From there I copied a picture of C. sativus field at top of blooming.
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and while Janis is seeking crocuses undergound ( ;)) those in my greenhouse are still blooming.
Obtained from Oron seeds: Crocus hyemalis OP28081
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and while Janis is seeking crocuses undergound ( ;)) those in my greenhouse are still blooming.
Obtained from Oron seeds: Crocus hyemalis OP28081
Excellent pictures!
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Further we followed along all known localities of robertianus, using small roads, and found no one. The rain was non-stop. We wanted to reach Elati (S from Metsovo), but near Metsovo rain changed to wet snow. Regardless of this we continued driving to Elati by small mountain road as the road still was black, but this gradually changed with going higher and higher, and something before pass the snow became so thick, that our car started skidding and we were very lucky that at this spot road was sufficiently wide for turning car for driving back. Finding of hotel following TomTom, was not very difficult, Hotel Olympus (only two **) was perfect and cheep, only dinner we got in small very good restaurant in 5 minutes walk. We slept in Metsavo and morning greeted us with thick snow covering everything. Only on city streets snow melted, but still covered our car. So we decided to change marshrout and drove to Moni Romnou. Some years ago there were plenty of C. mazziaricus, less abundantly C. hadriaticus, some tiny colchicum - now nothing. At least at that moment rain stopped. We saw only 2 plants of Colchicum and something below Monastery where earlier was spots covered with crocuses after long search were spotted 2 buds of C. mazziaricus. We drew to Lefkada and again went to mountains by very narrow roads, where last car drove may be month ago... to places from where I knew mazziaricus, and again found nothing. When we returned to city, started enormous showers (raining "cats and dogs") with so strong wind, that hotel's windows vibrated. The same continued all night and following day.
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Next day again endless rains and no crocuses around Varnakovo, where earlier I observed plenty of robertianus and some hadriaticus (large form). Regardless of rain we checked several well-known spots and no flower was seen. We slept in Delphi and then went to Mt. Parnassos where at top found a lot of Crocus hadriaticus parnasicus long after blooming with already long leaves in moderately wet soil. Hoping for snow-melt, we turned to Metsavo, by the way visiting famous rock monasteries at Meteoro where we slept in very good hotel. Next day approaching Metsovo we found that situation was even worth - everywhere thick layer of snow, smaller side roads all closed by police-blocks as unpassable. So nothing else left than returning to Saloniki for flying home following day. By the road home we made side turn to see tumulus of King Philip II and really I was greatly surprised for this museum and treasures found in tomb which escaped from tomb-robbers. Night in hotel near Airport, then few hours waiting flights and late evening I was back in Riga. and 2 hours later in home (already after midnight).
Of course I was happy for C. sativus - form grown in Greece (I had only Iranian sample) - one of mine Iranian colleagues are working on DNA of different sativus samples, so I will have some plants for sending him next year. I'm lucky for Perami hadriaticus and own, authentic C. hadriaticus parnassicus (my former plants were from stocks cultivated by Archibald and Hoog, so could be seedlings, may be even hybrids). So now I have pure sample. But again no hellenicus, no robertianus. Road to Moni Romnou is not very good, it is asphalt, but very narrow, with holes and I don't think that I again will go there. Really driving on mountain roads became more and more complicated for me. I several times searched for C. hellenicus at Varnakovo, and never found it, but that one at least I already got from UK and from Gothenburg.
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In home two days were passed hard-working on building new shed for pots and covering sheets for winter protection - side by side with greenhouse to avoid long transporting and then few crocus pictures (after an hour of collecting of died flowers), weather is very dark and moist, so pictures only so-so...
Started blooming of Crocus cartwrightianus cretense. It is so cool and dark (temperature inside greenhouse minus 1 to 0 C) that even cartwrightianus flowers don't want open properly.
Surprised for partly open C. cambessedesii and the last flowers of C. goulimyi.
Still plenty of melantherus, laevigatus, something less boryi and pumilus, but all flowers tightly closed and dies without opening.
After one week cold will come. Weather broadcast warns for temperatures below minus 15 C. If it will turn real - will need covering for winter and taking off of all unopened buds.
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We had the first sunny day after long period of damp and darkness and as always in this season - sunny days are accompanied with frost. In night we had minus 6 C (in greenhouse minus 2 C), during the day minus 1-2 C, but small snow which felt yesterday, on roots melted and in shade formed ice sticks. I used occasion to make some pictures of crocuses. The first 2 pictures are the two last flowers of Crocus caspius. I pictures C. hittiticus, too, although its flowers kept tightly closed bud shape. And shocking flower of Corydalis angustifolia from Armenia - collected around 100 m from entry in Geghart Monastery, inside deep shrubs. Pity, it certainly will be killed by frost,. but tuber may be will alive. What pushed it out so early - I can't understand.
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I was surprised by some large flower buds in the spring section of Crocus collection. Label informed that this sample was collected near Athens between corms of Crocus atticus. So I brought it inside where in +20 C of room temperature flowers quickly opened and it was possible to identify it as Crocus laevigatus. So here 3 pictures of it.
Another beauty was observed between Crocus pumilus pots. Another deep yellow bud. Incredible intensity of colour. Unfortunately with opening colour quickly fades, so dream about good yellow autumn crocus remain only dream.
Between tulips another runner - this one was collected as Tulipa biflora in South Kazakhstan steppe. Of course, it is not biflora and most likely is new species, but I have only 3 bulbs of it, so before rising of stock I don't want to kill plant for herbarium. Unfortunately I didn't succeed to get seeds from those winter blooming tulips. Too cold and dark weather is when they are flowering.
Weather broadcast for future days is quite dramatical. For coming Monday are offered night temperatures up to minus 19 C, during day - minus 15. So most likely on Sunday or even Saturday I will start covering of pots in greenhouse. But at present soil in pots still isn't frozen and I must to wait to get some minuses too keep temperature low below covering. After cold wave again plus degrees are promised...
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Brilliant pictures and splendid information, Janis !
Thanks for posting all of this !
Here, I have a C. laevigatus flowering that came to me under the name "South Hayes Form" - The outer petals have a yellow blush between the feathering.
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Crocus laevigatus from cormlets and very small corms from this years Crocus Group Exchange.
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Crocus laevigatus from cormlets and very small corms from this years Crocus Group Exchange.
Always a nice surprise to see them flower earlier than expected, isn't it David !
C. laevigatus tends to flower from very small corms.
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Thanks Luc.