Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: johnralphcarpenter on January 03, 2015, 01:54:41 PM
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The season is well advanced; some pictures from today. Helleborus x sahinii 'Winter Bells', a small plant still; Helleborus orientalis subsp. abchasicus; and some Helleborus x hybridus at the front of the house, originally from Washfield Nursery.
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Here I will have to wait three or four more months to see hellebore flowers, but it is so nice to see them already starting to flower in photos . Thank you. :)
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Always nice to see first blooms of the year , a few of my first time bloomers
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A real mid-January treat, Peter. Perfect flowers!
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Very early ones.
[attachimg=1]
Emma
[attachimg=2]
Bob's Best
[attachimg=3]
Unnamed double from a T&M offer a few years back.
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Very nice to see Helleborus flowers. :) I liked especially the middle one in Peter's pictures. Do you know it's origin?
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Leena the middle flower is from one of my own hybrids , mother plant was an Ashwood type yellow and pollen parent was a wild torquatus double , it is the first from that cross to flower so I am hoping for a few more good ones to follow.
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Here are two hellebores flowering with me at the moment, first is H. Lividus and second is a unknown variety of hellebore, if anyone knows what it is I would appreciate it. Thanks John
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7463/16292965892_0089463c85_c.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126223196@N05/16292965892/)
Hellebore Lividus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126223196@N05/16292965892/) by johnstephen29 (https://www.flickr.com/people/126223196@N05/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7555/16293808195_d09a45607f_c.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126223196@N05/16293808195/)
Hellebore (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126223196@N05/16293808195/) by johnstephen29 (https://www.flickr.com/people/126223196@N05/), on Flickr
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John, your H. lividus is H. argutifolius and your second hellebore is a hybrid, H. x hybridus.
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Hi Tim thanks for letting me know about the argutifolius, I bought it from a garden centre, you would have thought they would have know the proper name.
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Helleborus purpurascens
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John,
You may have come across argutifolius as H. corsicus, which is what I still know it as. I think argutifolius is the correct name, but just wanted to mention the other as I think it is fairly commonly used? Can get quite tall in the right conditions too.... my sister had one that used to flower at nearly 1.5m tall each year, tucked between too buildings. It LOVED it.
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Hi Paul yes it does get tall, it always cheers me to see it flowering. I know it's not the most spectacular of hellebores, but I like. As for the name like I said to Tim when I bought it the lable said hellebore lividus, so that's what I thought it was.
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H. lividus and H. argutifolius are closely related. The former comes from the Balearic Islands and the latter from Corsica. I find H. argutifolius to be totally hardy here and it seeds around, but H. lividus is tender and needs pot cultivation.
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Hi Ralph your right about argutifolius seeding around, I have pulled up loads to stop me getting swamped by them. I wish Niger was as vigorous, I'd be as happy as Larry then.
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H. niger is probably one of the most difficult to grow well. It is very site specific and either likes where you put it or dies. I've lost a few.
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Just received the February edition of "The Garden", and with it is RHS Plants Spring catalogue. On page 5, item 4 ,they list "Helleborus purpurascens (PBR)". PLANT BREEDERS` RIGHTS! For a species? Come on RHS! Must try harder! Probably a form of Helleborus x hybridus.
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Helleborus orientalis , a double picotee.
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I'm not usually a fan of double flowers, but that is something quite special.
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Saw a fabulous white flowered red veined H. thibetanus on facebook. Anyone know where to buy one?
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Saw a fabulous white flowered red veined H. thibetanus on facebook. Anyone know where to buy one?
I don't know, but Professor Google might :).
Perhaps try http://www.hazlescrossfarmnursery.co.uk/ (http://www.hazlescrossfarmnursery.co.uk/) or http://www.ashwoodnurseries.com/shop/plants/hellebores.html (http://www.ashwoodnurseries.com/shop/plants/hellebores.html) or http://www.grahamrice.com/hellebore/sources/sourcesuk.html? (http://www.grahamrice.com/hellebore/sources/sourcesuk.html?)
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All you folks are well ahead of me but this one is coming into flower. Not very showy but I like it
Helleborus vesicarius raised from seed. It is only about 8 inches high (20cm)
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Excellent Ian, I have tried and failed with this one - what is your secret?
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Excellent Ian, I have tried and failed with this one - what is your secret?
Ralph I too failed first time. The way I saw this growing in Will McLewin's garden was in a very well drained spot and he gave it some overhead protection for a few weeks in the wettest part of winter ( I use an open ended cloche). I have another seedling in reserve so we shall see. Tim Murphy grows this outside perhaps if he is watching he will comment
Good luck
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It was the open days at Delabroye Nurseries.
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lot's of nice helleborus hybrids
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a hell of a choice ;D
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all are from seeds
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some colors are difficult to render with a compact camera
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another batch of beauties
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Very nice, Yann.
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more Helleborus hybrids
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Yes Ralph, too many to buy
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It was cold even in the polytunnel, but some Helleborus fans were present
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Some nice details of the flowers
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Helleborus, Helleborus...and what's else? Helleborus
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Simple and double anemone Helleborus
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A picotee white form
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not enough of these beauties ?
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i get went back home with several rare forms not for sale, such as the green form 643
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another Helleborus hybrids raised from seeds
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the last batch
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You took all these photos with a compact camera, Yann? The quality is very good.
The selection and variation of these flowers is amazing - surely there must be a flower to suite any and every taste in hellebores there? ;D
I am slightly relieved not to have to make a choice which ones to buy - I might be there for weeks!
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I spent almost the entire afternoon in the nursery and definitly the choice is difficult.
Each plant is unique. I use a SZ-10 from Olympus, it's light and can shot in super macro 1cm.
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And then to imagine that I was there the day before and had bought the most beautiful ones for myself already ;D ;)
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I couldn't go there friday, i work 5km from the nursery but i was too busy during lunch time...
sooner Japaneses were visited the nursery.
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Pépinières Delabroye - Thierry et Sandrine
40 Rue Roger Salengro, 59496 Hantay
Tel/fax : +33 (0)3 20 49 73 98.
http://www.mytho-fleurs.com/les_vivaces_de_sandrine_et_thierry.htm (http://www.mytho-fleurs.com/les_vivaces_de_sandrine_et_thierry.htm)
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I am wondering about something and I have a question.
All the wild Helleborus I got from woods around lose their leaves during winter.
But I got a couple different plants from seeds (a reddish one and a white one) that keep their leaves. Huge, beautiful, healthy green leaves. And I could see that some of the flower stalks are bent, even broken and I am wondering if this is from the heavy leaves or the snow.
The question would be, can I cut these leaves in late fall? Would this hurt? I would like to see nice flowers in spring not just a bunch of leaves.
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We cut the leaves off our hellebores in January, usually. That is before the buds have grown enough to be in danger.
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Aaa, OK Maggi. And I thought my plants were doing something wrong :)
Thanks.
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I always cut 95% of the leaves at mid-december, just before the floral buds emerge.
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I agree, cut off the old leaves, but only on Helleborus x hybridus. Many species are deciduous anyway and lose their leaves, such as the ones in your woods - possibly H. viridis or H. occidentalis.Don't cut off the leaves of H. argutifolius or H. lividus or hybrids such as H. x ericsmithii or H. x sternii, unless they are damaged or diseased.
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I see that there are many wild hellebore species in Romania _ purpurascens, dumetorum etc. so your wild ones could be any of those, but all are deciduous.
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I am not good with the species.
Better show pics.
This is the "wild one" and this one behaves nicely. Leaves die before winter.
http://s87.photobucket.com/user/calinromania/media/Garden%20-%202014/DSCN0977_zps7128459d.jpg.html?sort=3&o=244 (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/calinromania/media/Garden%20-%202014/DSCN0977_zps7128459d.jpg.html?sort=3&o=244)
Yet these two are the ones I have a problem with.
http://s87.photobucket.com/user/calinromania/media/Garden%20-%202014/DSCN0622_zps1439d87c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=247 (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/calinromania/media/Garden%20-%202014/DSCN0622_zps1439d87c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=247)
http://s87.photobucket.com/user/calinromania/media/Garden%20-%202014/DSCN0617_zps8e68f148.jpg.html?sort=3&o=250 (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/calinromania/media/Garden%20-%202014/DSCN0617_zps8e68f148.jpg.html?sort=3&o=250)
The pics are from last spring.
But if you say it's ok to cut off the leaves, I will do it before winter comes.
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The wild one looks like Helleborus purpurascens to me - it is widespread in Romania. The other two are probably Helleborus x hybridus if they keep big old leaves through winter. You can cut them off now if you wish - I do mine in February. Don't cut them off too early next winter as the plant needs to photosynthesise. Mid winter is ideal if they are free of snow.
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Thanks. I'll do that ;)
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Helleborus x belcheri Pink Ice, a hybrid between h niger and thibetanus, from Ashwood Nurseries after years on their waiting list.
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I too waited years for this, planted it amongst other hellebores, it flowered and over the next winter it disappeared.
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Ralph gonna ask Thierry D. for a spare or 2. May be available for the AGS show...
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Helleborus x belcheri Pink Ice, a hybrid between h niger and thibetanus, from Ashwood Nurseries after years on their waiting list.
I'm still waiting for word on that one and something 'Briar'
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Just been to Homebase. They have a nice Hellebore with silver veined leaves called 'Winter Beauty'
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I'm still waiting for word on that one and something 'Briar'
That would be Helleborus x ashwoodensis ` Briar Rose` Mine is surviving but not putting on much growth. Nice flowers though. If I had my laptop back I would post a picture.
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I too waited years for this, planted it amongst other hellebores, it flowered and over the next winter it disappeared.
That's very disappointing, perhaps I'll keep mine in a large pot in the polytunnel in the worst of the winter. Ashwoods keep all their stock plants in large pots for years and they prosper, so worth a try.
Mark, I've been on the waiting list for Briar Rose for years too, so don't give up. Ashwoods are listing Pink Ice as in stock at the moment, so they should be able to post that now if you contact them.
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My Pink Ice came bare root with a big clump of soil so I planted it immediately.
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Just been to Homebase. They have a nice Hellebore with silver veined leaves called 'Winter Beauty'
That's a Helleborus x nigercors selection, a cross between H. niger and H. argutifolius.
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Still waiting for my 'Pink Ice' to flower, which is a bit disappointing as it arrived a couple of days after Margaret got hers which was already in flower. Still "All good things come to he who waits" ...I hope, it is still stubbornly sitting in bud!
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National Collection of hellebores held by Mike Byford will be opening from February 19th see
http://www.hazlescrossfarmnursery.co.uk/national%20collection%20hellebores.html (http://www.hazlescrossfarmnursery.co.uk/national%20collection%20hellebores.html) for opening dates for Nat. Coll. of Hellebores.
This is at Mike Byford 's family run nursery, open to the public, specialising in Hellebores, Trilliums and rare/unusual perennials. Also developing mail order for plants and seeds.
Hazles Cross Farm Nursery
Hollins Lane
Kingsley
Staffordshire ST10 2EP
info@hazlescrossfarmnursery.co.uk
Web: www.hazlescrossfarmnursery.co.uk (http://www.hazlescrossfarmnursery.co.uk)
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Today I received a packet from Ashwood, the hybrid niger x thibetanus 'pink ice' ..
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.. the hybrid orientalis x niger, and two others ;)
this is "single pink shades, dark nektaries, red flush" ;D
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Today I received a packet from Ashwood, the hybrid niger x thibetanus 'pink ice' ..
...and I'm still waiting for the buds to open!!
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Lovely plants, Irm - and isn't it super that they make such a long journey through the (probably far from gentle ) post to arrive in such good condition? Pretty good going considering how fragile they are in transit.
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Lovely plants, Irm - and isn't it super that they make such a long journey through the (probably far from gentle ) post to arrive in such good condition? Pretty good going considering how fragile they are in transit.
It is not really cheap, Maggi ::) shipping costs 45 pounds ::) but 'pink ice' is a must have for me .... :-X and now, its out of stock again.
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Oww! SO expensive ??? :o But like you say - you really wanted the plants.... a treat for you :)
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Ouch £45! Exactly what a friend just paid to send 3 tiny jars from here 3000km to the Dalemain Marmalade Competetion! We're not the only mad ones Irm.
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Ouch £45! Exactly what a friend just paid to send 3 tiny jars from here 3000km to the Dalemain Marmalade Competetion! We're not the only mad ones Irm.
I have a jar of lemon and rosepetal marmalade from Dalemain in the fridge at the moment - they sell some excellent varieties.
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Helleborus hybrid flowers floating in a container of water in the hellebore greenhouse at Ashwood's.
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Looking back I see that Margaret said on Feb 11th that here 'Pink Ice' had just arrived and was in flower. happily I had the snowdrops to distract me, but it is now in flower as of Feb 28th...phew.
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Helleborus hybrid flowers floating in a container of water in the hellebore greenhouse at Ashwood's.
I love it every time I see something like this - so very pretty!
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Here we are Margaret, hope you had a good weekend. 'Pink Ice' in flower at last and thibetanus, one of it's parents in front of it.
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You've 'Pink Ice' still in the pot ???
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Yes it is at the moment, I was waiting to see if it was ok, not that I don't trust Ashwood's but Margaret said it didn't look like hers so I was waiting to see.
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A self sown double which appeared in my garden a few years ago
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Although I have quite a few Hellebores in my back garden I only have two plants in the front and those are about a meter apart (Parent 1 and Parent 2) so perhaps a good chance that this seedling (Baby) is theirs.
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A rather fetching family!
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Helleborus cyclophyllus 3-5 Pigadia Vermion Northern Greece last week
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Wow- GREEN!! A plant to make Kermit feel inferior!
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You might surmise that Kermit would be green with envy at their colour?
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Helleborus cyclophyllus 3-5 Pigadia Vermion Northern Greece last week
Melvyn - Palpitations here over that colour! I used to hate lavender rhodos until one year a lady who studied with Constance Spry did some arranging with them and combined them with green hydrangeas, viburnums and lime hosta leaves at our Spring show. Magic.
Of course these cyclos are sensational in their own right.
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I'm speechless, wonderful. :)
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Helleborus cyclophyllus 3-5 Pigadia Vermion Northern Greece last week
Beautiful 8)
Wild-collected seed from Marcus Harvey a year or two ago (also listed here (http://hillviewrareplants.com.au/nursery-catalogues/2014-seed-list-wild-collected?page=1)) germinated well so I look forward to flowers.
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Friend was advised yesterday she won a bronze in the International/Commonwealth Marmalade section at Dalemain!
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Does anyonew recall the cross involved in Anna's Red?
johnw - just dug out.................
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I know it doesn't give precise details but here is the story John if it's of any use
http://www.independent.co.uk/property/gardening/deep-purple-there-are-hellebores--and-then-there-are-rodney-daveys-hellebores-6940785.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/property/gardening/deep-purple-there-are-hellebores--and-then-there-are-rodney-daveys-hellebores-6940785.html)
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Thanks Brian, very interesting. I wonder if xericsmithii is involved, if so it may be too tender for here. I am hoping it is at least 50% xhybridus to assure some winter hardiness. Philip McD emailed it's on sale at Rona Building Supplies in Vancouver for £6! I'd better give him a buy order.
johnw - 10" of snow yesterday, clear here now but the Confederation Bridge and many major northern roads are closed. Plows have pulled off the roads well north of here.
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Have seen 'Anna's Red' described as being derived from crossing involving Helleborus lividus, Helleborus niger, and Helleborus x hybridus together.
Whatever - at £6 worth a try!
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This one was grown from Ashwood seed a few years ago and has been struggling in a pot but I've got it planted out now ;D
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That's a cracker, Roma. Love the markings - and it seems to be facing outwards too, which is a big "plus".
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Thanks Maggi. My that is a shiner Roma!
john
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The leaf marbling on Anna's Red can only have come from a plant with some lividus in the gene pool, there are rumours of a fertile ericsmithii as one of the parents. For obvious reasons we may never know, one thing for sure no seed set on Anna by open pollination. The plant flowers late here and most niger or sternii pollen long since gone.
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You have some nice plants, folks!
Here are 3 of mine. Seedlings of unknown parents.
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Thanks Jeff. I guess 50% xhybridus is sufficient to get it through our winters.
john
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This one was grown from Ashwood seed a few years ago and has been struggling in a pot but I've got it planted out now ;D
Roma which seed selection did this come from ?, very attractive indeed.
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It was Apricot/Peach shades. I think I got about a dozen plants from 15 seeds. I potted them up meaning to keep the best and take the others to plant sales but it didn't happen and they got a bit neglected. I've got the survivors planted out now.
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has anyone seen stamens this colour before on helleborus niger ?
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It was Apricot/Peach shades.
Roma, I like that, also. I have some Ashwood Apricot/Peach hellebores going to flower for the first time this year, I hope some of them will turn out as lovely as yours. :)
This is Ashwood Yellow in bud last week, I have covered it now to protect from the cold (it is still under zero after a very cold night), and I hope it will flower nicely later.
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Last year I posted pictures of leaves of my two young Hellebores, here (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11215.msg305113#msg305113).
The seeds for these plants were collected in mountains near Plitvice in Croatia, and last year Tim Murphy (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11215.msg305587#msg305587)suggested that they may belong to torquatus/multifidus complex.
They are now flowering, and they are the earliest of my Hellebores to flower. The flowers emerged as soon as the snow melted. The other has more yellowishgreen flowers and the first flower was damaged some by cold, the other one has greener and more cup-like flowers.
The smell is faint but not bad.
Do these look like H.multifidus? And if, which subspecies?
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Our native Hellebores. Both grow in woods not far away. Img 189 H. foetidus, under exposed. Img 188 H. viridis.
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Helleborus abhasicus, and the second photo is of a Ashwood Peach/Apricot spotted seedling which is going to flower for the first time.
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I have some Ashwood Apricot/Peach hellebores going to flower for the first time this year, I hope some of them will turn out as lovely as yours. :)
Here in Berlin, the Ashwoodys are in flower now ;)
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Here is one I have had for a few years with petaloid stamens.
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Irm, very nice colours in your hellebores. I have several which are grown from Ashwood seeds and are now in bud for the first time, I'm hoping to see some new colours. :)
Ian, how different looking hellebore, beautiful. :)
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Irm, very nice colours in your hellebores. I have several which are grown from Ashwood seeds and are now in bud for the first time, I'm hoping to see some new colours. :)
Ian, how different looking hellebore, beautiful. :)
Thank you Leena that's what attracted me to it. I also grow some of those that Irm shows I think Aswood call them "Neons" and they seem to come well from seed. If you haven't got that I may be able to send you seed in the summer ;)
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Irm, very nice colours in your hellebores. I have several which are grown from Ashwood seeds and are now in bud for the first time, I'm hoping to see some new colours. :)
Please show them, when they are in flower !
and I have one more ... ;)
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Thank you Leena that's what attracted me to it. I also grow some of those that Irm shows I think Aswood call them "Neons" and they seem to come well from seed. If you haven't got that I may be able to send you seed in the summer ;)
Thank you Ian, I would love to try it. :) I have sown my Ashwood hybrids in 2010 and 2011, mostly from seeds they sold named Apricot/Peach/Primrose yellow, picotee or spotted or with dark nectaries, but not Neon. However the seeds were labeled there seems to come very nice different shades, although from Purples all so far have been pink, but now one looks darker in bud.
Please show them, when they are in flower !
I will, Irm. :) They are now coming up and are in bud so it may still be couple of weeks before the flowers open up properly.
Very nice white you have there, picotees look so elegant. :)
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Last year I posted pictures of leaves of my two young Hellebores, here (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11215.msg305113#msg305113).
The seeds for these plants were collected in mountains near Plitvice in Croatia, and last year Tim Murphy (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11215.msg305587#msg305587)suggested that they may belong to torquatus/multifidus complex.
They are now flowering, and they are the earliest of my Hellebores to flower. The flowers emerged as soon as the snow melted. The other has more yellowishgreen flowers and the first flower was damaged some by cold, the other one has greener and more cup-like flowers.
The smell is faint but not bad.
Do these look like H.multifidus? And if, which subspecies?
Hi Lena
I took a stab at odorus at the time but you should definitely know once the mature foliage emerges , if they are multifidus subsp multifidus the foliage should be very divided(with my limited knowledge of species helleborus )
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Thanks Peter, will post more photos when the leaves have emerged. :)
I have to admit that these are not as spectacular as hybrids, but it is exciting to grow something that is a real species from the wild.
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A new one this year
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Another first time bloomer .
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From a yellow double and green picotee single cross , sorry about the single posts but for some reason it will not let me make multiple picture posts even when they are below 200kb
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Three class acts there Peter.
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Thanks David , first and last are from my own seed , middle is from Mike Byford seed , does anyone have pictures of helleborus belcheri Pink ice ?? I have only ever seen the blooms but never foliage and need a comparison for my own possible Niger thibetanus cross , I hope someone can help , thanks in advance.
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Pic of foliage of H. x ballardii 'Pink
IceFrost ' in this post : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12891.msg329627#msg329627 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12891.msg329627#msg329627)
Confusing if there are 'Pink Ice' plants from two hellebore hybrids? :-\ :-[
The x belcheri 'Pink Ice' looks to favour the thibetanus foliage
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Maggi - The xballardiae is Frost and the xbelcheri is Ice. There's no mistakening the two in these parts this year. ;)
john
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Maggi - The xballardiae is Frost and the xbelcheri is Ice. There's no mistakening the two in these parts this year. ;)
john
Thanks John, my mistake. It's perishing here - snowing right now......
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Thanks maggi , really appreciated.
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Hellebores are looking splendid at present. I have a backlog of photos after two months without a computer, so here goes...
Some self-sown Helleborus argutifolius which seem happy where that are at the roadside, and Helleborus x sternii 'Ashwood Strain', both photographed on 10th February.
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From 27th February, Helleborus x lemmoniae 'Madame Lemmonier' with huge flowers.
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On to late March, Helleborus 'Sensas' (thanks Yann!), Helleborus x hybridus Wilgenbroek Red Type, Helleborus x ericsmithii, a large plant which has been in situ for some years and appears to be happy.
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April, Helleborus argutifolius, and a very dark form of Helleborus x hybridus.
Hope to take some more photographs soon as most of the species hellebores are performing now, but no time at present as we are off to Scotland tomorrow for a week in Argyll. Hope the Rhodos are out.
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My seed grown (possibly) Helleborus multifidus last week, I really like it's green flowers.
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T have now three yellow hellebores starting to flower, all are grown from Ashwood seeds. It is interesting how the leaves around the bud are different colors in each one
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This one is becoming my favourite this year (so far). :)
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This Ashwood picotee is also very nice, I think
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You have some exciting ones, Leena :)
Most of my plants are past their best but some are still good. They are all from seed.
One white hybrid, H. argutifolius and H. foetidus. All have lasted for weeks.
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Very nice H.argutifolius and H.foetidus. I have tried both couple of times but they don't do well in my garden, so I grow now more hybrids and species which don't need their stems to survive the winter. I have friends in more snowy part of Finland and they can grow H.foetidus well, but in the south western corner here there are many times part of the winter only a little snow and yet very cold (-25C or more) so the stems of those hellebores don't survive it.
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Ralph nice to see the Helloborus grow well in the Kent's soil :D
Waiting the repair of my camera i'cant shot mines.
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This Ashwood picotee is also very nice, I think
very nice seedlings :D also the yellow.
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Thank you Irm, it is so exciting to wait for the new plants to flower. :)
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Helleborus lividus, the least hardy of the genus and hence grown in a pot.
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Lividus is the only hellebore I struggle to keep alive, I have tried various compost mixes well drained and little water but not bone dry , I have to grow new plants every year to hybridise with .
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My H.multifidus from wild collected seeds now, the picture of it's flowers earlier in the previous page.
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In the previous page I posted three pictures of yellow Hellebores which flowered now for the first time, and I like them very much.
The first has slightly different form in petals, and when it came up the leaves were also yellow.
Two pictures of the second which has more rounded petals, the flower picture was taken earlier and the picture of the whole plant yesterday.
I think the one in the fourth picture is still my favourite, it is difficult to decide.
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I also like this one, though it has rather small flowers which droop a little.
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Looking for opinions on this hellborus foetidus foliage , had to cut bits off to shrink the file size but you still get the idea ,
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I don't know what is going on here - this has just come into flower; supposed to be Helleborus torquatus 'Flamingo' from Staudengärtnerei Peters. Doesn't look much like my other plant of the same name, and why now???
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Looking for opinions on this hellborus foetidus foliage , had to cut bits off to shrink the file size but you still get the idea ,
Peter, what exactly are you questioning about the foliage?
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Hi Ralph
had anyone seen similar foliage on foetidus was my original query if badly worded , I had not seen any like it before this plant but I heard from Will Mclewin who has seen this type of foliage before in cultivation and in the wild , I thought I may have something unique but sadly not.
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Hellebore season well under way here - this Helleborus x ballardiae 'Shooting Star' is always early, but suffers from the common fungal disease that hellebores are prone to - easily distinguishable from Hellebore Black Death, which is a viral disease. Must find time to cut off the infected foliage.
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Ralph it seems that most of UK is now infected.
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Some discussion of precocious flowers elsewhere on the Forum. These Helleborus x hybridus in a sheltered spot are very early - I haven't even removed the old leaves yet.
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Here the main fungal problem is botrytis, difficult to control
Black death has been reported to be present here in NZ but the extent of the speared of the virus has not been well documented. Can anyone advise me of the current status in Europe re black death? I am aware that some well known hellebore nurseries did have infected plants which were being sold to unsuspecting customers.
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This RHS page, and a link or two there which may be of interest:
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=167 (https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=167)
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Maggie
Thanks yes had seen the article before.
Black death seemed to have been here for some years arriving with hellebores imported by a local nursery from a UK source.
The nursery used the plants for seed and did not distribute plants. However the nursery closed some plants were dug up and planted in a garden in the same area, soon after the gardener who was responsible for the garden noticed the tell tale symptoms of BD (she had seen diseased hellebore plants in the UK) and sent leaf samples for testing and thus the virus was confirmed here. Stress seemed to be the trigger for the virus expression as plants at the original site were claimed to show no symptoms. This was abut 10 years ago and since then few murmurings about the disease despite the widespread availability of hellebore plants from a few commercial suppliers.
I think the hellebore nurseries played ostrich when faced with the extent of the virus infection. and some even continued to supply plants that had a high probability of having the virus albeit in a latent state.
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Helleborus niger is flowering well before Christmas. A difficult plant to grow, it is very site specific; I have planted it in various places in the garden and this is the only one to survive. I think this is 'Potter's Wheel'
Helleborus x ballardiae 'Shooting Star' is such a good plant - got this from Staudengärtnerei Peters.
This also came from them: bought as Helleborus x glandorfii Pink Large Flowered, I think they have now decided it is in fact Helleborus x lemmoniae.
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All of them are lovely. I can't even imagine hellebores in bloom before April, although with our ridiculous warm weather there are some that are still quite green.
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For me niger is a difficult garden species, very intolerant of wet feet and susceptible to crown rot. Never seen any comments about soil conditions of niger in the wild. We get no winter snow cover and winter is sees our highest rainfall.
BTW I have one hybridus well advanced to flowering its supposed to be summer down under... Surprisingly it is usually the double forms that flower out of season.
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I have read that H.niger can be short lived and more difficult to grow than H x hybridus, but I haven't found it difficult.
My plants grow in woodland beds, in the same conditions as H x hybridus.
I have seed grown strain of H.niger since 2006, and here it seems to be short lived. It flowers two or three years from germinating and then flowers two or three years and then just dies for no apparent reason (after flowering it ripens the seeds but doesn't grow any new leaves, then I know it will die that year), but it produces a lot of seeds and survives like that. It flowers quite late, later than my other bought H.niger, usually in en the end of April and beginning of May here, and it's flowers turn green in the end of flowering rather than red like my other bought plants do.
I have also some H.niger plants which have been sold here for Christmas flowers. They flower earlier than my seed grown plants, and I have never gotten seeds from them. I have thought that H.niger is so common and available plant that I haven't collected seeds from my plants, I will next year.
I have also couple of seedlings grown from wild collected plants from Italy, I hope they will flower in spring 2017.
First two pictures from last April from my seed grown plants, and then one Christmas Helleborus niger.
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I have also Helleborus 'Jacob', it is said to be H.niger, but to me it's leaves look different, and also it has never produced seeds here. Perhaps the reason is that it flowers quite early but I still find it peculiar. Has anyone else gotten seeds from it? What do you think, is it a hybrid?
I have had it since 2011, and it seems to grow bigger every year, now there are a lot of flower buds already visible, and I suspect I will see the first flowers already in January or if we get snow then right after the snow has melted.
The first picture is 'Jacob' in the beginning of last March, the second picture is from mid April when it's flowers had turned red. Snowdrop is 'S.Arnott'.
The last picture is from today (there was snow last week but it has now melted away).
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I suspect that your cooler woodland condition suit helleborus better than my hot dry garden!
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I suspect that your cooler woodland condition suit helleborus better than my hot dry garden!
Yes, that could be. :) Even in summer when it is relatively hot (between 20-30C), the woodland part in shade is cooler.
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Interesting experience with Helleborus niger, Leena. I have an old plant which usually flowers well before Christmas. It was in the garden when we moved here over 30 years ago. A new house in an old garden. An elderly aunt and uncle lived here before we bought the property and the Hellebore may even date back to my grandparents' time. It never sets seed. I have another, bought from a garden centre some years ago. It is short lived but sets plenty seed and even self sows.
On another topic. I have a number of old hellebores originally from seedlings acquired when working in the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in Aberdeen. They are all reddish purple colours and not very exciting compared to modern hybrids. What is remarkable is they always have very healthy foliage. I see the occasional black spot on them but other more recently acquired hybrids, even those grown from seed can get very messy. If I remember correctly the original plants were purchased from the Plantsman's Nursery about 1977 or '78.
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I believe that niger 'Jacob" is a tissue culture line ands this may explain a few aspects of its behaviou including seed set. Would try to HP and see if seed set occursr. Have the same issue with a few hybridus I grow particular the double white Mrs Betty Ranicar of which seed from OP occurs vary rarely. Pods do form but are empty of seed, this trait is also carried by a number of the doubles derived from MBR.
Modern hybrids of many garden plants are more susceptible to diseases than their origin species, hellebores mire so due to intensive line breeding for colour and flower shape. It is only relatively recently that rose breeders have really focused on plant health and disease resistance. In some ways this is fortunate as home gardener's world wide are finding tit increasingly difficult to purchase sprays for disease control. Currently we have only one systemic insect spray amiable and its future is not at all secure. Imagine having the apply a contact insecticide to control aphid outbreaks on hellebores, doesn't bear thinking about.
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Thanks Roma and Jeff.
Roma, it is interesting that you have also found some which are very long lived and some which are short lived.
Jeff. you may be right about tissue culture explaining the behaviour in seed set. I'm not very good at hand polluting, but I'll give it a try.
Here I haven't found black spot in my hellebores yet (knock on wood), hybrids have a healthy foliage now except some had their leaves damaged by severe frosts in October, and it seems that those were all grown from Elisabeth Town Hellebores seeds, perhaps their leaves were thinner or softer and that is why the frost damaged them and not others. I have cut down all the damaged leaves.
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Helleborus niger
flourishes today 8° c today in Denmark
Thorkild.
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And here in wet and windy but warm Kent.
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Ralph you're lucky, the few ones that flowered are eaten by slugs, grrrrrrrr :'(
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Leena
Not sure why your ETH plants are more sensitive to frost/cold damage. I have grown many of the and also seedlings from my own crosses of plants grown from ETH seed and see no difference in disease resistance of plants from ETH and other hybridus. Leaves do not appear to be any different from other double hybridus.
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Never had a display of hellebores like this before at Christmas time.
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Very nice Helleborus flowering this early. :) Here some hybridus shows already buds, I'm a little afraid what happens if they have time to develop more before very cold weather starts, but perhaps there is also snow then. Also Helleborus seeds have started to germinate. :)
Leena
Not sure why your ETH plants are more sensitive to frost/cold damage. I have grown many of the and also seedlings from my own crosses of plants grown from ETH seed and see no difference in disease resistance of plants from ETH and other hybridus. Leaves do not appear to be any different from other double hybridus.
Here is one picture taken in October after a week's cold spell, minimun - 7C, which is not much in the winter, but perhaps it was too much all of a sudden in the autumn. Brown leaves are from frost damage.
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Here are some helleborus from my garden. My mom planted all these, I used to not like them at all, but lately I'm starting to see the beauty of some of the single ones - still not liking the doubles :) Helleborus niger is very beautiful and also growing quite well in our garden, but the slugs just love to eat little holes in every flower. Well at least they are not eating the flower stem, like in many other cases.
The first one is called H. x orientalis 'Roter Januar JP' from Jürgen Peters. I love the color!
No name for the second one, can anyone tell me? Since the flowers are quite small I thought maybe its a species?
Third one is also nameless, orientalis hybrid probably.
And this is how H. niger is looking - there are many flowers but I did not cut the leaves.
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First three pictures of two hybrids but I don't know their names. The last one shows some niger flowers - most of these are not even chewed on, proving my own words wrong :)
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Helleborus liguricus with it's wonderful lemony smell and a Helleborus niger flower which hasn't been eaten by slugs.
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And a selection of 4 Helleborus x hybridus.