Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: kalle-k.dk on April 26, 2013, 07:05:35 AM
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Some years ago I got from a good garden friend a Leucojum with double flowers, he named it 'Gertrude Wister' and told me it was to be found in an old rectory in England.
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Very, very nice - I wonder which rectory.....
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She seems to have more American connections
http://articles.philly.com/1999-07-20/news/25522638_1_yearbook-achievement-awards-horticulturist (http://articles.philly.com/1999-07-20/news/25522638_1_yearbook-achievement-awards-horticulturist)
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I was looking at my pictures from last spring and thought to post some of my Leucojum vernum.
I hope this is the right thread.
I have a few different ones. This first clump is the oldest and I got one bulb from a friend who had gotten it from Saaremaa, Estonia. There is always only one flower per stem and the spots are pale green, almost yellow by the end of the flowering. First and second picture are this plant.
Then I have another plant with only one flower per stem and the spots in this one are golden yellow. I got this plant from a friend in Finland, and don't know it's origin. The third picture is this plant.
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Then I have two different plants which have two flowers per stem.
The first one was bought either from Eurobulb or Janis Ruksans six or seven years ago, planted the same autumn, but the plants got mixed up and the other one never came up so I'm not sure of the origin of this one. The spots in the flowers are yellow. The first and second picture are from this plant.
The other plant with two flowers per stem was bought from market in Tallin Estonia, and it has green spots. I especially observed the color of the spots in my plants last spring and the color in this one stayed green.
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Hi Leena
The green tipped one most of the time is called Leucojum vernum var. vernum
The yellow tipped one most of the time is called Leucojum vernum var. carpathicum
Not all taxonomist accept these names and call them all Leucojum vernum
Sometimes the yellow tipped one change colour because of the soil
Roland
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Sometimes the yellow tipped one change colour because of the soil
Thank you Roland. :)
The pH of the soil might be a reason why I have both green and yellow spots in both of the types (one flower and two flowers per stem). The plant in the last two pictures with two flowers and green spots (L.vernum var vernum?) is in acidic soil, and so is the last one in my first posting with one flower and yellow spots (I know the soil is acid because Hydrangea Endless Summer growing close had very blue flowers, and I also grow rhododendron seedlings in that bed).
I'm not so sure of the pH of the soil where the other two plants grow, I suspect the bed where the first plant grows is more neutral.
Does the acidic soil change the color of the spots more green or more yellow?
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That's what I think
but I am not sure for that
maybe other members have different experience
Roland
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Things were desparately late this Spring - hardly an apt description - and slow further by a late snowfall. Still the bulbs have recovered. Yesterday a patch of Leucojum vernum v. carpaticum and a double- headed seedling amongst the legions of them.
johnw - +7c, +15c tomorrow.
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Such a grotty season for you so far, John - you must be pleased to see this charming evidence of the toughness of these plants.
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Today some farmer at the market had again Leucojum.
This time there was one with very faint marking on the outer petals and none on the inner.
I bought it with some other bulbs.
I think it more distinct than Null Points.
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Today I had a look to the garden where I discovered two years ago another nearly spotless Leucojum. This year there were two one just like mine (very tiny dots on the outer petals) which was new and the older one with tiny light yellow dots on each petal.
I took some pollen from mine and tried theirs on mine.
On my way to my Studio I had some other stops for this beautiful flowers. Here some nice examples in form an colour.
At another place the pictures were not good I will have a try tomorrow.
I hope you enjoy
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The almost pure white types are very pretty - but of course, I like all Leucojum .
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There is another find in the garden where I found the other two white Leucojum.
In the backyard with only one bunch of plants (Leucojum) was the only very special flower. The outer petals had something like filaments. It was either seedlings or the same clone.
The garden belongs to a lady aged 83 and she promised, to ask her gardener not to meddle with these plants.
The inner petals were smaller than the outer.
I wonder whether this is persistant or not?
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Leucojum-Forest:
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Leucojum-Forest:
Wow! :o
That is amazing, Uwe!
Which part of the country do they grow like this? Were they originally there or were they introduced?
cheers
fermi
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Leucojum aestivum 'Gravetye Giant'
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here in Thüringen in East-germany are some great wild stocks
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Herman,
a nice clump 8) Growth is much advanced compared to mine in Germany.
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Seemingly nobody likes them anymore?
This year my nearly flawless white did not flower. But at the same market, a farmer had again one. This time pure white. I went straight to the garden where I found a nearly white one and exchanged pollen.
Mine did not take the pollen but the ones from the special garden did set seed and came up this spring.
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Another find of this year at a public park near my home.
They keep their bell form, only draw back the flower is small. It is a quite big clump, all the remaining flowers are the same.
Somebody picked half of it for home decoration :P
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Seemingly nobody likes them anymore?
This year my nearly flawless white did not flower. But at the same market, a farmer had again one. This time pure white. I went straight to the garden where I found a nearly white one and exchanged pollen.
Mine did not take the pollen but the ones from the special garden did set seed and came up this spring.
The pure whites are very beautiful. Thanks for showing them Axel.
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Seemingly nobody likes them anymore?
This year my nearly flawless white did not flower. But at the same market, a farmer had again one. This time pure white. I went straight to the garden where I found a nearly white one and exchanged pollen.
Mine did not take the pollen but the ones from the special garden did set seed and came up this spring.
very nice. I hope you have chipped them?
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ei gude Axel
These are wonderful finds and a super plan to cross the two whites. I wonder if you will have to go to the F2 or if the F1 will produce all whites.
There are a couple of reported naturalized stands here in Nova Scotia, I intend to have a look at them this spring. Both are in northern Nova Scotia so maybe they will be in flower by early April.
Are your native vernums green or yellow-tipped?
john
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Here there are both colours found aside in nature and therefore in the gardens too. Most have only one flower but quite often there are plants with two.
Variations apart from this in nature are here very rare. I have found none yet and there are thousands and much more at one place.
Maybe they are more frequent in the gardens because they are usually deriving from few taken in nature. So it might be because they are inbred. So mutations express themselves more often.
Nobody here looks for variations, apart from me.
The same farmer brought this pot with the pure white with normal ones to the market without noticing it. I haver already asked for such variation because the almost white one from last year was from his gardens too.
I believe there will be some white ones in the cross (F1) if mine has taken, but I don't know if not a bee was faster than me.
I have been to his farm two days before. Found none. But he has them at different places and the one he took this plants from he missed to show me then.
I have not yet chipped any bulbs so I don't dare.
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Loving the white! I've had Leucojum in prior gardens and need to bring them in here--a beautiful alternative to the wild yellows of early spring....
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Leucojum aestivum 'Gravetye Giant'
Nice clump :)
My Leucojums are also flowering - which is rather early for them, and even more unusual is that the snowdrops are still flowering (they have been flowering for almost 2 months), I can't remember previous years that these two plants flowered simultaneously
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Usually yellow and green tipped ones grow next to each other.
Now I found a small garden where there are only yellow ones. Some look quite interesting.
This yellow fanged one is odd.
If these are next year the same? I doubt ist jet. but as it grows near my studio I will see.
At any rate I will ask for seeds.
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Fascinating variation, Axel.
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I have asked dor seeds and bulbs from the last garden. The lady agreed to let me take the seeds and a few bulbs.
Yesterday I went there.
A big heap of earth and stones covered some hundred of the plants there. Not shown in the picture. I did not have the chance to have a close look before they were destroyed.
They tried to build a small parking place for their car.
A few bulbs are saved now and a small amount of fruits wait for ripening. :P
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Leucojum vernum var. vernum 'Null Punkte'
Leucojum vernum var. vernum
Leucojum vernum, Vagneri Group
Leucojum vernum 'Eva Habermeier'
and Leucojum vernum var. vernum 'Milly'
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An unnamed selection with a very open flower!
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Real beauties. :D :D :D
The white ones from the last two years flowered again. The clone from 2015 hadn't flowered since.
They all got some Boron last year and now I have 3 Flowers from the 2015.
It was last time nearly all white with very tiny yellow dots on some petals.
This time all three show light yellow dots on the outer petals and the inner ones are pure white.
The other one I found last year is again pure white. The bud had some very light yellow colour at the tip, but fade to white while opening.
The garden from the old lady which had some white flowering in it is no more. When I passed last summer there, they had started to dig it up.
I asked and was allowed to look for Leucojum bulbs. The original stand of the white ones was already dug up and so I don't know if these bulbs are gone or not. Now there is only gravel there with a plastic foil underneath.
There are still a lot coming up now in my small garden from there. But no white ones yet.
But I have seedlings pollinated with mine from this garden. So in some years...
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Real beauties. :D :D :D
The white ones from the last two years flowered again. The clone from 2015 hadn't flowered since.
They all got some Boron last year and now I have 3 Flowers from the 2015.
It was last time nearly all white with very tiny yellow dots on some petals.
This time all three show light yellow dots on the outer petals and the inner ones are pure white.
The other one I found last year is again pure white. The bud had some very light yellow colour at the tip, but fade to white while opening.
The garden from the old lady which had some white flowering in it is no more. When I passed last summer there, they had started to dig it up.
I asked and was allowed to look for Leucojum bulbs. The original stand of the white ones was already dug up and so I don't know if these bulbs are gone or not. Now there is only gravel there with a plastic foil underneath.
There are still a lot coming up now in my small garden from there. But no white ones yet.
But I have seedlings pollinated with mine from this garden. So in some years...
That's almost a real albino, really great, Axel! Superb find!
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Here two unnamed forms, one which keeps its flower closed (I think it wants to be a Galanthus) and the colour of the stamens shine through giving it a yellowish glowe just beneath the ovary.
And a very open one, almost like a claw.
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I have not seen this long petals before.
But in a public park last year some green claws. Seems to be persistent because this year again the same kind.
The white one from last year seems to be persistant white.
there is the same plant when I got it last year
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10409.15 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10409.15)
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Hello
I've been tasked with starting a collection of Leucojum Vernum cultivars at work , any recommendations as to wear to acquire them would be most helpful at this stage , open to swaps, or buying them if they aren't to much money .
Thank you for your help
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I had some seeds last year from white ones. But now it is too late for bulbs or seeds. Their roots start to grow latest in august here.
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Just a few named cultivars have made it into the RHS Plant Finder https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/Search-Results?form-mode=true&query=leucojum%20vernum (https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/Search-Results?form-mode=true&query=leucojum%20vernum) and only var. vagneri is obtainable. If I remember correctly, Joe Sharman generally has a few on his printed lists. But I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, Emma. I'll keep my eyes open for them. They seem to find conditions in my garden too dry.
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A reminder to all of this issue of International Rock Gardener which has an article by Wim Boens about Leucojum types. It's No. 76 of April 2016 - it has got a long list of variants and photos of them The link for it is http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2016Apr281461879792IRG_76.pdf (http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2016Apr281461879792IRG_76.pdf)
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Apart from the false believe, that they need a cold period to germinate, a very good article.
I have shown in the thread of Galanthus germination that Leucojum does germinate sometime between August and end of September in the same year, if sown at once. I had always Galanthus and Leucojum seeds at the same time under the same conditions. Leucojum was usually a bit more early. Germination not delayed to another year if seeds did not dry out.
But as with Galanthus always the little bulb first. Most of the time the first leaf comes up the same time as with the adults.
In my garden peeping up in late autumn.
Same applies to Galanthus. http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11117.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11117.0)
Seeds die to a great percentage if kept dry for too long (some weeks to a few month)
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Apart from the false believe, that they need a cold period to germinate,...Seeds die to a great percentage if kept dry for too long (some weeks to a few month).
Yes, you are right Axel, I've noticed it in the time since I wrote my article too...fresh seeds, sown immediately, germinate very early on (almost immediately after sowing) without needing cold stratification. When I wrote the article I had only ever sown dried seeds (rehydrated by soaking them in water before sowing) and those seemed only to germinate during or after winter. Rehydration of dry seeds makes more seed germinate (the germination rates of dried seeds can be very low) but never almost 100%, like with fresh seeds. I do mention it like this in my lectures now too...
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Leucojum vernum 'Null Punkte'
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Leucojum vernum var. vagneri makes an effort!
[attach=1]
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Leucojum vernum 'Null Punkte'
Wim, do you have more pictures of this year's flowerings please?
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Now, Leucojum vernum var. vagneri without snow.
[attach=1]
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My white ones were devastated by frost below 18 centigrade minus without snow for a longer period. They looked like boiled spinach. But slowly they recover at least some of the leafs.
One had two buds on one stem. A vagneri so to speak. Maybe they will recover a bit more. Its the 4th day since the heavy frost has gone.
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Nice to see them in flower Herman.
I have the feeling that Leucojum vernum is slowly (very?) becoming more available in the UK, indeed recently I was able to buy a 2 Ltr pot from s local independent garden centre. L v. Vagneri Group is still difficult to source as is var. carpathicum. I was able to buy one plant of each last April from Beth Chatto's nursery and although they have been slow to settle I have small buds on both, so I'm hopeful.
All of the named forms continue to be impossible to source and emails to one of the major Snowdrop nurseries (yes that one) said to have a range of them continue to be unresponded to. I'm sure some of them must be available somewhere and it's just a question of finding them.
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Leucojum vernum var. carpathicum
[attach=1]
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Leucojum aestivum is already faded...
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News from Wim Boens about some appearances next year - starring Leucojum! (and Wim, of course!)
[attachimg=1]
"Ladies and gentlemen,
for those of you who want to learn a bit more about the snowflakes (as in the plants from the genus Leucojum, not the derogatory term which has been gaining popularity in 2018)...
At the 12th of January 2019 I'm lecturing about this genus at the university of Ghent on invitation by the VRV - Vlaamse Rotsplanten Vereniging (Karel Lodewijk Ledeganckstraat 35) (in Dutch) and on the 3rd of February 2019, I do a repeat performance (in English) at the Snow Drop Event at the East Ruston Old Vicarage Garden (East Ruston, Norfolk, UK.)
Everyone welcome! "
[attachimg=2]
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A reminder of Wim's talk at East Rushton ....
East Ruston Old Vic
"Snowdrop Day at East Ruston Old Vicarage on Sunday February 3rd from 10 00 AM. Sellers, buyers, lovers, growers. Talk by Wim Boens on Leucojum. Refreshments and Woodburners."
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Leucojum vernum, one with two flowers per stalk a kind gift from a Forumist.
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[attachimg=2]
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Here a few not very good pictures of what I have as Leocujum vernum 'Null Punkte'. This is flowering for the first time for me and I was wondering if it is correct? In reply 42 of January 23 2018 Wim Boens showed a picture and his plant showed faint yellow markings. On Wim's IRG article of April 2016 he said "apical mark often reduced to two separate spots especially in juvenile bulbs but more mature bulbs have no spotting".
Maybe mine is right, maybe not, anyone have a view please?
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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Here a few not very good pictures of what I have as Leocujum vernum 'Null Punkte'. This is flowering for the first time for me and I was wondering if it is correct? In reply 42 of January 23 2018 Wim Boens showed a picture and his plant showed faint yellow markings. On Wim's IRG article of April 2016 he said "apical mark often reduced to two separate spots especially in juvenile bulbs but more mature bulbs have no spotting".
Maybe mine is right, maybe not, anyone have a view please?
Here is a copy of a reply from Wim, I feel happier now. It was indeed the first flowering for my plant.
""is it the first year in your garden? If so, it's possible it has a bigger mark. It should be a lot smaller next year! Mine had quite a big mark in it's first year too...Null Punkte is different in markings size every year, btw. This year almost no markings at all over here.""
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Leucojum vernum var. vernum with green apical marks.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Leucojum vernum var. vernum with yellow(ish) apical marks.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Leucojum vernum var. carpathicum 'Podpolozje'
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Such congested clumps produce stalks with one flower or two flowers as well.
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Golden promise.
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Having done a bit of digging today I'm not sure now that my last two pictures above are Leucojum vernum var carpathicum 'Podpolozje'. I bought Podpolozje last year and they were very small bulbs. Quite near to them I had some L. vernum Vagneri Group bulbs bought two years ago. which flowered sparsely last year and I had expected them to flower better this year. So after the digging I lifted and potted the bulbs I think were Podpolozje which leaves in-situ what I now think are Vagneri Group. If you see what I mean ???
It would be much easier if they were all called just L. vernum wouldn't it? ::)
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(https://i.imgur.com/BFuouNl.jpg)
Leucojum vernum 'Podpolozje'
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Still not sure about mine. Maybe I shall be clearer when (if) they flower next year.
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I have this form: Leucojum vernum ‘Podpolozje’
[attach=1]
It has twin flowers!
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‘Podpolozje'
God bless you! ;D
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I have this form: Leucojum vernum ‘Podpolozje’
It has twin flowers!
Herman, there is an excellent picture of 'Podpolozje' in Wim Boens' article in IRG ,April 2016 . It is difficult to tell if yours is a light yellow or if it is green. It should be yellow.
God bless you! ;D
Thank you Zephirine, I often wondered what the name meant.
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Herman, there is an excellent picture of 'Podpolozje' in Wim Boens' article in IRG ,April 2016 . It is difficult to tell if yours is a light yellow or if it is green. It should be yellow.
Thank you Zephirine, I often wondered what the name meant.
David, next picture is from the same plant in 2017.
[attachimg=1]
Something strange is happening!
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An open flowered type, seen yesterday in the forrest.....
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I have this form: Leucojum vernum ‘Podpolozje’
(Attachment Link)
It has twin flowers!
The yellow tips are more greenish in places or years when the budding leucojums enjoy less sunshine. There are people thinking that ´Podpolozje´is no better than any other ordinary yellow - tipped leucojum; indeed, when visiting my garden, Wim thought that the clump shown in # 58 was this selection, which it isn´t.
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I have my Leucojum vernum 'Podpolozje' transplanted and it gets more sun now. So we will see what happens.
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Leucojum aestivum in the garden, flowering earlier every year.
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I have Leucojums from three different sources, and all seem to behave that at the beginning of the flowering the tips are more green and after a while they turn more yellow.
The first two pictures are of Leucojums which have always only one flower per stem, and they have all multiplied from one single bulb from Estonia about 13 years ago. The first picture is from the beginning of flowering and the second is a week later.
In the third there is a clump of Leucojums which have two flowers per stem, and the spots in the flowers which get more sun in the south side (left) are more yellow than in the flowers in the shade side.
The fourth clump of Leucojums is also from Estonia, but they always have two flowers per stem (sun is on the right side of the flowers which turn yellow first).
And the fifth picture is of the same plants but a week later than and the spots have turned more yellow.
So in my garden in these plants the colour of the spots is not a stable feature.
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Lovely plants Leena.
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Thank you David. :)