Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Memorable Topics – Threads and posts that are just too good to lose => Plant Information and Portraits => Topic started by: Hans J on April 09, 2009, 12:14:42 PM

Title: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Hans J on April 09, 2009, 12:14:42 PM

Epimedium 2009

Hi all ,

Since some years I collect Epimedium and I will try in this year to make some pics of them .
Here are some from today :

[attach=1]

Epimedium epsteinii

[attach=2]

Epimedium pinnatum ssp. colchicum

[attach=3]

Epimedium 'Sasaki'

Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 09, 2009, 12:19:29 PM
here two E.grandiflorum forms and a hybrid :

[attach=1]

Epimedium grandiflorum ?....knows maybe anybody this cultivar ?

[attach=2]

Epimedium grandiflorum 'Coelestre'

[attach=3]

Epimedium X rubrum
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on April 09, 2009, 12:50:43 PM
Very nice Hans !!
Epimedium is not a genus I've given much attention in the past - maybe I should...  :D  Problem : I have very little shade in the garden...  :-\
Did the K. Van Poucke collection already show signs of life Hans?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 09, 2009, 01:23:38 PM
Thank you Luc ,

All the plants from Koen doing very fine ( much better than the Eranthis :o).....I hope to post later pics when they flowers ( again thanks )
I grow many of my Epimedium in pots ( some like more acid soil than in my garden ) and some are tender ....
They are really good for covering the ground , gowing under tree peonies .....
and nice companions for : Galanthus,Leucojum, Helleborus,Hepatica ,Cyclamen,Eranthis ,Paeonia ...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 09, 2009, 01:27:01 PM
Great photos, Hans.  I grow a number of them and have been surprised at how they tolerate dry shade.  I know many grow in more moist conditions than my dry garden, but quite a few have not only survived, but really thrived in my sandy soil.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 09, 2009, 01:43:06 PM
Great photos, Hans.  I grow a number of them and have been surprised at how they tolerate dry shade.  I know many grow in more moist conditions than my dry garden, but quite a few have not only survived, but really thrived in my sandy soil.

Chris ,

yes - I can confirm it - here is in summer also very dry and I give the plants in borders never any extra water .
In last winter I had all my Epimedium in pots protectet from rain on our teracce .....covered with a shade net ( to avoid sun and to protect for cold ) -they have received only one time in month water....
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: shelagh on April 09, 2009, 04:33:22 PM
Really enjoyed the pictures Hans, we have quite a few Epimediums and I was pleased to see E epsteinii for real rather than just an illustration please keep them coming.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 09, 2009, 08:28:38 PM
Here is a purple epimedium I have, I think its called E. grandiflorum 'Lilafee'.  The other photo is of the foliage on the common E. perralchicum.  The foliage suddenly browned like this last summer.  Any idea what happened?  It seems to be coming back nicely now.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 09, 2009, 09:14:09 PM
Very lovely images Hans, a real pleasure to see for me as we have so very few here in New Zealand. I'll look forward to seeing more of yours.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: maggiepie on April 09, 2009, 10:13:48 PM
Hans, your epimediums are beautiful, I hope you have lots more pics to come.
Is it true these plants are sterile or can they set seed if hand pollinated?
 ???
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on April 10, 2009, 03:04:39 AM
Well, if I interpret Stearn correctly, epimediums are self-sterile, i.e. cross-pollination must occur between different individuals of the same species, in order for the seed to come true.  Apparently, garden hybrids are relatively common.

EDIT: So therefore not sterile, but pollen from the plant cannot fertilize its own flowers.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: shelagh on April 10, 2009, 04:21:56 PM
They are known as the barrenworts but we have had SSS Self Sown Seedlings occasionally.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on April 10, 2009, 04:41:13 PM
More from Stearn:  "Observation led to the conclusion then that clones of Epimedium are self-sterile but interfertile."
And:
The term "barrenwort" refers, apparently, to old medicinal uses relating to human fertility (as recorded by Pliny the Elder): "A poultice of the leaves beaten fine with oil prevented the breasts from swelling, the root caused barrenness and the leaves beaten fine and drunk in wine after menstruation  prevented conception for 5 days."  
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 10, 2009, 04:47:29 PM
I had in last year on my E.pinnatum ssp.colchicum fertil seeds - I have sent it to a friend in England and he has confirm me that they have germinatet .

Thanks for the nice words for my pics - I will continue ....
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Renate Brinkers on April 10, 2009, 09:29:35 PM
Hans,
great pictures. I love E.epsteinii and E.p.ssp.colchicum. Maybe anyone know this one. I got it as E.rubrum which it is definitly not but I have no idea what it really is.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Renate Brinkers on April 10, 2009, 09:33:48 PM
Do anyone knows whether it is a question of culture, the place where they grow or the species why some loose most or all of the leafes in winter and some keep all leafes the whole year? I have not a lot Epimedium but for example `Lilafee´allways loose every leaf and builds new one in spring and E.accuminatum never looses one leaf.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 10, 2009, 09:46:05 PM
Hi Renate,

Could your epimedium be E. x warleyense?  I have this and it is that orange-y shade.  Sorry, I have no idea why some lose all their foliage and others don't the big ones I have that are easy to grow are E. perralchicum and these don't lose their leaves at all, I cut them all off in February so I can enjoy the new foliage and flowers.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: maggiepie on April 10, 2009, 09:55:29 PM
Lori, thanks for the info, you must have a fabulous reference library.

Shelagh, thanks for mentioning the SSS, must be a nice surprise when you find one.

Hans, good to know your seeds germinated, I wonder how long the seedlings will take to flower.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Renate Brinkers on April 10, 2009, 10:05:29 PM
Chris,
thanks for your help, I checked some pictures of E. x warleyense and I think, you are right. I love this colour.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 10, 2009, 10:13:44 PM
Renate :

I suppose your plant is E.x warleyense 'Orangekönigin'
.....wait - until my will flower we can comepare ...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Greenmanplants on April 10, 2009, 11:31:44 PM
Christine,
I think your leaf problem is windburn, sometimes happens, more often with new foliage.

Renate,
Some of the species are deciduous. E. grandiflorum E. x youngianum cultivars which are the older garden hybrids, also E. brevicornu and E. alpinum.

The Chinese ones do not like it too dry in summer, Scotland should be ideal! Hampshire is not.  The Japanese ones are not too keen on alkaline situations and also need some summer moisture although not as fussy as the chinese.  The old European ones are very tough plants and will practically survive in dust once established.
Cheers John H Hampshire
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 10, 2009, 11:35:40 PM
I had in last year on my E.pinnatum ssp.colchicum fertil seeds - I have sent it to a friend in England and he has confirm me that they have germinatet .



I had the seeds from Hans and they have germinated well.I also collected a dozen seeds from a number of my plants and at the moment have eight seedlings up.I expect these arose from crosses between my different plants as I only have one of each.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 11, 2009, 10:37:58 AM
here some new pics from today :

[attach=1]

Epimedium X youngianum 'Roseum'

[attach=2]

Epimedium platypetalum

[attach=3]

Epimedium grandiflorum 'Lilafee'
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 11, 2009, 10:39:59 AM
Renate :

here is a pic of my

[attach=1]

Epimedium X warleyense 'Orangekoenigin'
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 11, 2009, 11:40:58 AM
Hans,

With all of these out in flower at the same time, do you try to hybridise them?  I never think of it when mine are in flower, but it is something I want to do at some point just to see what results.  I think trying seed from Ep hybrids would be very cool, never quite knowing what you would end up with.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 11, 2009, 11:45:01 AM
Paul ,

 :o no  :o

I always prefer more species ....and I do not like making more hybrids ....
a other problem is the room ...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 11, 2009, 11:57:07 AM
Hans,

Fair enough, each to his own.  I can see both sides of the coin on that, wanting to make sure that the pure strain is kept for the species.... but I still can't help wondering what exactly would end up as a result of crossing one thing with another. ;)  And the other problem with species is that if you don't want hybrids then you need to have the plants completely isolated and hand pollinated to guarantee that what you are collecting is pure species seed.  Most of us don't have the space to undertake that sort of thing unfortunately.  ::)  It all comes down to space, doesn't it!  :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 11, 2009, 08:50:03 PM
We saw some very interesting new ones today, The Edrom people are getting new ones from Japan.  Can't wait to see what comes of that.  I bought E. 'Amber Queen'.  Flowers are large and quite tall.  But they had more.... hmmmm
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Renate Brinkers on April 11, 2009, 10:06:36 PM
John,
thanks, that helps a lot.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Renate Brinkers on April 11, 2009, 10:13:56 PM
Hans,
great new pics.
It seems as the flowers of `Orangekoenigin´are a bit lighter orange but I don´t feel able to decide whether the difference is big enough to say: It is E. x warleyens or it is `Orangekoenigin´. I will try to find informations about the diffences between the species and `Orangekoenigin´.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: shelagh on April 12, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
I am hoping to post a couple of Epimediums on the bench at Stockton yesterday.  I say hope because this will be the first time from this new laptop and it still surprises me on a regular basis by not doing what I expect.  The I have a query for all you E. buffs.  Pictures of an Ep. given to me by my Japanese friend Kimihiko who said it was just a garden variety from Japan.  I've looked through my Stearn and I still can't name it your help is needed.

Ep. flavum shown by Robert Rolfe
Ep. davidii show by Brian and myself
Mystery ep.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 12, 2009, 10:24:49 AM
That one sure looks good, Shelagh.  Did you ask Edrom about it?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: shelagh on April 12, 2009, 02:06:15 PM
No Chris, ofcourse I forgot to put it in the car so I couldn't show anyone.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 12, 2009, 02:34:13 PM
Looking through Stearn can anybody really name anything?

Lovely plant Shelagh
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Greenmanplants on April 12, 2009, 03:09:01 PM
Hi Shelagh,

Looks a bit like E. g. 'Princess Susan'.  A 1999 introduction by Darrell Probst and named after Harold Epstein's daughter.


Looks a really nice plant.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 12, 2009, 04:14:43 PM
Hans
Lovely pics and healthy plants!

Epimediums are my passion for last 3 years.  :)

E. x warleyense is red, E. x warleyense “Orange Konigin” is orange.

(http://cs1263.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_60788216.jpg)

(http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/xlarge/52987469.jpg)

Traveling to Caucasus I found color variations of E. colchicum. Think it is a good material for hybridizing hardy Epimediums.

(http://cs1935.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/22340033/x_3a969634.jpg)

(http://cs1935.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/22340033/x_e27ea3f8.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 12, 2009, 04:25:10 PM
Oh I can't stop sharing my love to this plants!  :)

(http://cs1353.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_38f69641.jpg)

Epimedium leptorrhyzum
(http://cs1421.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_c1ec3eb4.jpg)

Epimedium alpinum
(http://cs1263.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_b091739c.jpg)

Epimedium acuminatum
(http://cs1476.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_010bd6c9.jpg)

Epimedium pubescens
(http://cs1493.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_7835d46e.jpg)

Why nobody talks about leaf? It is colored is spring and in autumn.
(http://cs1421.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_52c93f76.jpg)

edit by maggi : Sorry, it seems these links are broken.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 12, 2009, 04:27:35 PM
Renate
Not all Epimedium species are evergreen. It is normal for E. x youngianum to lose it's leaves.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 12, 2009, 07:40:38 PM
Hi Olga ,

I'm glad that you also collecting this plants !

Thank you for your information to E.x warleyense .....I know ( in real ) only 'Orangekoenigin' -never seen before the other form

Wow - those E. colchicum are fantasic in color -really new for me ! ....we have here always the same material here ( I have it received from different sources ...but it looks all similar )

Many thanks for your pics
Hans
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 12, 2009, 07:58:33 PM
Quote
Why nobody talks about leaf? It is colored is spring and in autumn.
Indeed: the variation of leaf shapes and colours are a big plusthe the sculptural flowers in their pretty shades..... super plants altogether!!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on April 12, 2009, 08:28:13 PM
I grow several Epimedium species. I' ve sown lots of seed which resulted in a large number of hybrids.
It is often difficult to find out who the pollen parent is. But in this example it was easy because the parents grew next to each other.
And the hybrid has features from both parents.

E. platypetalum x brevicornu (pollen).

Robin

Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 12, 2009, 08:41:29 PM
Wow, that E. platypetalum is a joy to behold!   Also love the E. xwarleyense too.  Mine is not red like that one, so I guess I too have the Orange form.  Must take a photo and post.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 12, 2009, 09:27:35 PM
Olga wonderful pictures.Epimediums are a favorite of mine.

Epimedium latisepalum to show its fantastic leaves and a closeup of the flowers
Epimedium omiense fire strain two forms
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 12, 2009, 10:11:24 PM
What stunning plants from EVERYONE!. Such very pretty things. Another interest which will have to remain unrequited. :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 12, 2009, 11:36:33 PM
Olga,

Some beautiful species in there, and the colour forms are just great.  I love Epimediums, but so many here I've never seen before.  :o
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 13, 2009, 05:13:18 AM
Hans
I like pale-flowered E. colchicum very much. I went many kilometers in epimedium forests but it always was standard yellow. I know only one place where variations appear. Also was found a plant with variegated flowers. It could be disease.

(http://cs1252.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/22340033/x_7a467a31.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 13, 2009, 05:27:14 AM
Tony
What a pretty flowers! Thank you very much I recognized my uknown Epimedium

(http://cs1493.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_a54f5d94.jpg)

(http://cs1493.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_d546f0a3.jpg)

E. x omiense is like one of E. acuminatum forms:

(http://cs1493.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_5a08b876.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 13, 2009, 05:29:58 AM
Robin
Very floriferous hybrid! I have some seedlings from free pollination but they haven't flowered yet.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 13, 2009, 05:38:57 AM
Paul
More Epimediums?  :D

E. grandiflorum White Queen
(http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/small/73189446.jpg)
http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/xlarge/73189446.jpg

E. x versicolor Sulphureum
(http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/small/73189447.jpg)
http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/xlarge/73189447.jpg

E. x cantabrigiense
(http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/small/73189448.jpg)
http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/xlarge/73189448.jpg

E. x rubrum
(http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/small/73189454.jpg)
http://olga_bond.users.photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1356770/xlarge/73189454.jpg
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 13, 2009, 05:50:03 AM
Thank you!  Beautiful. 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on April 13, 2009, 07:23:46 AM
Wonderful plants and spectacular photos, all! (Now where did I put that order form?  ;D)

I hope you don't mind an interruption in the form of a question?
Is anyone familiar with Epimedium pallidum?  Is it a valid species name?  I see it offered by some suppliers, yet it's very hard to find out anything about it.  I ordered a plant a couple of years ago under this name from a Canadian supplier, however it was later identified as E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum' (by Karen Perkins Probst... I was bold enough to send an e-mail and photos to request an ID).  So, I'm still very curious about "Epimedium pallidum"!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 13, 2009, 09:39:08 AM
Olga ,

Thank you for your informations and pics !
You have a fantastic collection of this plants - are they easy to get for you in your country ?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 13, 2009, 12:23:55 PM
Lori - E. pallidum is not listed in our Plantfinder.  However, it may just be that no British nursery has discovered it yet!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 13, 2009, 12:43:09 PM
Lori
Epimedium pallidum is not listed in Stearn's book too. Could you show photos here?

Hans
It is difficult to get plants in my country but nothing is impossible.  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 13, 2009, 01:01:46 PM
Olga ,

you must have very fine connections  ;D ( Druschba )

can you grow all this plant outside in your climate ?
I have always a bit fear and so I grow more or less only the easier ...all other are in pots ( but this is sometimes not so well )
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 13, 2009, 01:41:24 PM
Hans
Yes I have a net of friends all over the world.  ;D

I grow all plants outside. No way – it’s impossible to make alpine house. And no need to make it for epimediums. They are mostly hardy even here. Some species and hybrids have grown in Moscow and S.-Petersburg regions since 19th century.

I wonder there are plants difficult in your climate. Europe seems a plant paradise.  :)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 13, 2009, 03:23:56 PM
Olga ,

yes - nice friends are very importent if you collecting plants  ;D

OK - now after your words I will try to plant more outside !
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 13, 2009, 03:32:31 PM
here a update from today :

[attach=1]

Epimedium alpinum

[attach=2]

Epimedium X perralchicum'Frohnleitn'

[attach=3]

Epimedium X versicolor 'Sulphureum'

Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on April 13, 2009, 05:11:32 PM
Thanks for the comments on "E. pallidum". 
As requested, Olga, here is the plant sent to me as "E. pallidum" but later identifed as E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum'.  (I apologize for these poor photos!)

Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 13, 2009, 05:50:59 PM
Lori
Yes, you are right, it is E. x versicolor Sulphureum.

Hans
Good rich flowered plants! But the first one is E. alpinum.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: fleurbleue on April 13, 2009, 06:38:56 PM
Hi, I have E. pallidum and versicolor neosulphureum bought from two different nurseries and they are very very similar  ???
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 13, 2009, 07:21:39 PM
Olga ,

thank you for correction ( I have it changed )
I had also my doubt because I got this plant from a good source ...and I grow E.alpinum also from other sources and they are a bit later .....
Now after again looking in the Stearn book I'm also shure that it is a E.alpinum  :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on April 13, 2009, 07:42:32 PM
Fleurbleue, it would be very interesting to see both your E. pallidum and your E. versicolor 'Neosulphureum' if you have photos.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 13, 2009, 08:44:22 PM
Hans I have planted all mine in the garden and they have survived the winter no problem. This has been our coldest winter for many years

It is difficult to photograph them especially the tiny ones as they are so near the ground. i shall have to take the flowers of and photograph them as cut stems.

Epimedium acuminatum d29
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 13, 2009, 08:48:32 PM
Tony :

great pic !

yes - I will now also plant all outside .... 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 14, 2009, 12:43:58 PM
Some more in flower and some with good foliage. I have had to take the flowers of to photgraph some of them

Epimedium youngianum typicum
Self sown seedling from 'Golden Eagle with lovely foliage
Epimedium sp Chen d15 with good foliage
Epimedium sp chen d27
Epimedium sp chen d26
Epimedium sp chen d24
Epimedium dolichostemon
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 14, 2009, 02:08:18 PM
Hans,

With all of these out in flower at the same time, do you try to hybridise them?  I never think of it when mine are in flower, but it is something I want to do at some point just to see what results.  I think trying seed from Ep hybrids would be very cool, never quite knowing what you would end up with.

Paul,
(I found this thread far too late sorry) The older "Species" in European gardens are mostly hybrids with latinized names and since most of us only grow single clones all seedlings are chanse hybrids.
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 14, 2009, 02:37:45 PM
The I have a query for all you E. buffs.  Pictures of an Ep. given to me by my Japanese friend Kimihiko who said it was just a garden variety from Japan.  I've looked through my Stearn and I still can't name it your help is needed.
Hi excuse my lateness.
It probably IS a japanese form not known to Stearn. I have taken a look and the closest one I have on a picture is Epimedium grandiflorum 'Tama no Genpei' However, there are probably scores of others looking much the same. I do think that it is safe to assume that it is a grandiflorum.
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 14, 2009, 02:46:47 PM
can you grow all this plant outside in your climate ?
I have always a bit fear and so I grow more or less only the easier ...all other are in pots ( but this is sometimes not so well )
Hans,
Olga's Moscow is probably even colder than my place but I have never lost an Epimedium to cold (or anything but neglect).
I probably grow them together with more difficult plants so they feel very well. ;)
What can happen is that the wintergreen leaves are scorched brown by winter sun. That happend to acuminatum and an unknown yellow this winter.
Göte

PS
You must all garden in the tropics  ;D My earliest Epimedium is up 10mm or so.   
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 14, 2009, 02:52:00 PM
Oh I can't stop sharing my love to this plants!  :)
Why nobody talks about leaf? It is colored is spring and in autumn.
(http://cs1421.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_52c93f76.jpg)

Yes Yes Yes Olga, ;D
I also started collecting them three or four years ago.
Your colchicums are fantastic. I hope they will be available here some time in the future.
I hope to find some of the ones with really big leaves. The leaves are indeed beautiful.
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 14, 2009, 02:59:12 PM
Looking through Stearn can anybody really name anything?
Yes Tony but only if it is in there.
I have identified a couple of unknown and a couple of misnamed ones using the book but I have one that I cannot find. I can find two close relatives but not the very one. It could be a hybrid but it could also be a new species or var or whatever.
Obviously there must be more hybrids around than those he mentions. ???
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: shelagh on April 14, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Thanks Gote, whatever it is I love it.  Tony some great pictures I particularly like Chen d24.  I agree with you they are very hard to photograph unless you get into Bookerish positions.
 
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 14, 2009, 05:21:51 PM
Thanks Gote, whatever it is I love it.  Tony some great pictures I particularly like Chen d24.  I agree with you they are very hard to photograph unless you get into Bookerish positions.
 

Shelagh

I think it is great but only 3 inches high.First time it has flowered this year.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 14, 2009, 06:31:40 PM
Tony
Pretty flowers! Chen's Epimediums are like a lottery. I've not recognized some species yet. But all of them are beautiful!

Your colchicums are fantastic. I hope they will be available here some time in the future.

Gote
I hope so. Plants taken last year didn't shown quick growth.

Olga's Moscow is probably even colder than my place but I have never lost an Epimedium to cold

Moscow is colder… :(
My friend lost E. acuminatum after -20c snowless frost.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 14, 2009, 07:27:20 PM
Tony - E. dolichostemon is super.  Is that very small?  Gote - love the foliage on yours.  These plants are just intriguing to me.  I love to look at them closely to see the detail of the flower parts.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 14, 2009, 08:01:26 PM
Chris the dolichostemon is about 15 inches with numerous small flowers.That is just part of a flower spike to photograph.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 14, 2009, 08:22:35 PM
Only three nurseries list it - all in the SW  :-\  Must check with Edrom, I'm due a visit there....
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Renate Brinkers on April 14, 2009, 08:26:06 PM
Olga,

thanks a lot, now I am sure that mine is `Orangekoenigin´. You have an impressive collection, wonderful plants.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 15, 2009, 09:03:26 AM
Tony - E. dolichostemon is super.  Is that very small?  Gote - love the foliage on yours.  These plants are just intriguing to me.  I love to look at them closely to see the detail of the flower parts.
It is not mine Chris. I wish it were. I failed to remove Olga's picture when i quoted her.
Sorry Olga
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 15, 2009, 09:08:05 AM
Moscow is colder… :(
My friend lost E. acuminatum after -20c snowless frost.

You are quite right Moscow is colder. The strange thing is that Stĺle who is in Norway, where it is warmer than here in mid Sweden, lost his acuminatum.
My acuminatum had some 20% of the leaves burnt from the winter sun this winter. Stĺle has his in a more exposed position than mine.
It could be a case of different clones but do you know if your friend's acuminatum was shaded in the winter?
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Roberto Gamoletti on April 16, 2009, 02:09:42 PM
Two more epimedium in flower now in my garden

Roberto
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Staale on April 16, 2009, 09:44:15 PM
Yes, Göte is right that my plant of E. acuminatum died. That may however have other causes than low temperatures. My plant was next to my little stream, and the soil there is quite saturated all year. It was also growing to exposed to sun, I think. Recently I received 3 new plants of acuminatum (if they turn out correctly named) to try again in a better spot. Love the foliage of acuminatum.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 17, 2009, 10:24:50 AM
That thing I also find with E. acuminatum is that unlike most of them it keeps flowering for me throughout summer.  It periodically puts up a new leaf and associated flowers anytime during the warmer months.  Always a nice surprise to find more flowers on it unexpectedly.  And the flowers are probably my most favourite of the Eps I have flowered here..... although I have seen some other nicer ones but not in my own garden. 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on April 17, 2009, 10:46:40 AM
A friend of mine is looking for a "different" ground cover for his front garden which is in full sun though.
Would any Epimedium be suitable or do they all want shade ?  ???
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 17, 2009, 12:18:02 PM
Luc,

I grow Epimedium pinnatum 'Colchicum' (or is that ssp colchicum, I don't recall right now) out in full sun.  It wasn't exactly deliberate, it just worked out that way.  My climate has pretty hot summers so I'd have to say it doesn't mind full sun (depends of course what your friend's summer are like).  It has formed a mass about 1.5m wide so far, and it is most definitely supressing everything it comes across.  I have to dig a heap of it out this year as it is starting to overrun everything else in the vicinity.  It is particularly beautiful if you trim the leaves just as the flowers are emerging, because then you get a whole mass of flowers without anything disturbing them.  Still looks brilliant even if you miss the window of opportunity and find the flowers already too far advanced, but better with no leaves at all and just flowers.  It flowers prolifically for me in full sun as well.  That a help?  I can dig up a pic of the flowers of mine if you'd like, but I think it is correctly named as far as I can tell.

And if you don't grow that one..... how many plants would you like.  I will literally end up throwing a bunch of mine out I would imagine, as I don't have space for a miriad of 1.5m patches of the one Epimedium (but wish some of the others would try to grow that well.  ::))
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 17, 2009, 01:28:29 PM
a few more in flower.I find that some put up flower spikes form now until the frost in October. I notice the bumble bees like them at the moment and so there is a chance of some hybrid seed.

My two plants 37 and 38 look the same in flower but have slightly different foliage.

Epimedium sp chen 37
Epimedium sp chen 38
Epimedium sp chen 24
Epimedium youngianum niveum
Epimedium platypetalum
Epimedium akebono
Epimedium epsteinii
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on April 17, 2009, 02:09:01 PM
Luc,

I grow Epimedium pinnatum 'Colchicum' (or is that ssp colchicum, I don't recall right now) out in full sun.  It wasn't exactly deliberate, it just worked out that way.  My climate has pretty hot summers so I'd have to say it doesn't mind full sun (depends of course what your friend's summer are like).  It has formed a mass about 1.5m wide so far, and it is most definitely supressing everything it comes across.  I have to dig a heap of it out this year as it is starting to overrun everything else in the vicinity.  It is particularly beautiful if you trim the leaves just as the flowers are emerging, because then you get a whole mass of flowers without anything disturbing them.  Still looks brilliant even if you miss the window of opportunity and find the flowers already too far advanced, but better with no leaves at all and just flowers.  It flowers prolifically for me in full sun as well.  That a help?  I can dig up a pic of the flowers of mine if you'd like, but I think it is correctly named as far as I can tell.

And if you don't grow that one..... how many plants would you like.  I will literally end up throwing a bunch of mine out I would imagine, as I don't have space for a miriad of 1.5m patches of the one Epimedium (but wish some of the others would try to grow that well.  ::))

Hi Paul !
Thanks for the elaborate explanation !
Don't worry about the threatening Summer - my friend lives nearby -so his "Summer" is belgian... not even close to what you're getting...heatwise...  ;D  Maybe I'd have to worry more about our winters - sometimes wet and quite milde - sometimes down to -10 °C as last Winter ???

I've googled for some pictures - it looks quite an attractive species...
I'll talk to him about it.
He has some 10 m2 to cover.

Thanks for your help !
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 17, 2009, 02:24:43 PM
Luc ,

I could also suggest you E. X perr.'Frohnleitn' or E.  X ' Neosulphureum ....( look on my pics  - there is also one of E.pinn. ssp. colchicum )
Also well in sun is E.X warleyense 'Orangekoenigin' - all this old hybrid cultivars are really uncomplicatet .
They are plantet often in parcs - in any positions -they grows always happy !

Good luck
Hans
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on April 17, 2009, 02:50:52 PM
Thank you Hans !
I'll dig into them !  ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on April 17, 2009, 05:50:43 PM
Quote
You must all garden in the tropics   My earliest Epimedium is up 10mm or so.   

Tropics, indeed!  There won't be new growth on my epimediums until about month end!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 17, 2009, 07:34:35 PM
Paul,  I've just been up to Edrom Nursery today and bought that Epimedium from them.  It was all alone and full of flower so I just couldn't resist it.  Good to know it will survive a sunny place, means it will survive dry too I assume?  I have nothing but dry here.... Also bought one of their new Japanese imports to try, and E. alpinum.  Now I have to sort out a place for them to grow...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on April 17, 2009, 08:08:00 PM
The epimediums I am growing manage here with 16" of annual precipitation, plus 3-4 yard waterings through the summer.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 18, 2009, 12:06:14 AM
Luc,

Mine have been through -8 or -9'C without any problems, and we did used to have wet winters as well so that shouldn't be a problem at least to that degree. 

Chris,

Yes, hot and dry suits the spot mine is planted in, although it does get dripper watering during summer and some hand watering.  The edges of the clump would get virtually no articificial water though as they're against the mulch path.  They would be drier than the rest of the clump but have never suffered.  It is trying to invade the path as well (another of the reasons I need to remove a goodly portion of it!)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 18, 2009, 01:31:13 PM
gote

My friend's acuminatum was shaded in the winter but it was just planted out that autumn. That could be a reason.
My epimediums are shaded and usually covered by snow. This winter we had -12 without snow. I do not know how do my plants do - my garden is still under snow.

As I know loss of leaves is not breaking for epimediums.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 18, 2009, 09:05:35 PM
E.  x warleyense 'Orangekoenigin' happened to be on the Lamberton stall at the Perth Show today.... so I bought it  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 18, 2009, 10:43:09 PM
Good decision Maggi!  Its a lovely thing.....
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 19, 2009, 09:24:27 AM
A friend of mine is looking for a "different" ground cover for his front garden which is in full sun though.
Would any Epimedium be suitable or do they all want shade ?  ???

I do not know how it does in sun but if you are looking for a ground cover, E pauciflorum will do the job. the foliage is about 10cm high and it forms runners.

By the way BEWARE it may become a weed. Mine is swamping several plants and I have to dig it all up separate and replant.

Vinca minor will do well also in sun and has nice blue flowers in the spring. - and easily becomes a weed

Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 19, 2009, 09:30:56 AM
gote

My friend's acuminatum was shaded in the winter but it was just planted out that autumn. That could be a reason.
My epimediums are shaded and usually covered by snow. This winter we had -12 without snow. I do not know how do my plants do - my garden is still under snow.

As I know loss of leaves is not breaking for epimediums.


Olga Stĺle,
acuminatum perhaps dislikes moving in the wrong season?? Which takes me to next question If so, what is the wrong season? 

I usually cut down the leaves in early spring of some like rubrum and warlayense. By the way, does any one know the origin of 'Orangekönigin'? It looks like the warlayense I have. Sometimes nurseries give common forms fancy names in order to make them sell better. Actually I think the red form (which I do not have) has abetter colour.

Göte

 
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 19, 2009, 10:02:35 AM
Chris and Maggi
Quote
I bought it
Quote
Also bought one of their new...

Oh, we made a good advertising.  ;D

gote

Right season is spring (here). Sometimes I dig epimediums during the summer or in early autumn. It's OK if snow covers new plantings.

I cut down leaves of E. rubrum, E. alpinum, E. youngianum before winter. They are OK.

E pauciflorum
By the way BEWARE it may become a weed. Mine is swamping several plants and I have to dig it all up separate and replant.

Yes againe.  :) I use E. pauciflorum to cover Cypripediums and others shady plants with "long legs". Pretty small thing with attractive leaf.

Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 19, 2009, 10:23:48 AM
Gote - the one I bought as x warleyense is a lot more orange coloured than the one posted on this thread, which looks decidedly red, so I think I got the orange form rather than the real thing.  Its still a stunning plant, and is growing in the most inhospitable place, under a pine tree in dry, sandy soil. It took a while to establish but this year it has come on in leaps and bounds.  I'm sure if grown in better soil it would become a thug....
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Hans J on April 20, 2009, 03:56:37 PM
here some new flowers :

Epimedium grandiflorum 'Rubinkrone'
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Shiho'
Epimedium grandiflorum v. higoense 'Bandit' ( not with typical leaves )
Epimedium X youngianum'Niveum'
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 21, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
Gote - the one I bought as x warleyense is a lot more orange coloured than the one posted on this thread, which looks decidedly red, so I think I got the orange form rather than the real thing.  Its still a stunning plant, and is growing in the most inhospitable place, under a pine tree in dry, sandy soil. It took a while to establish but this year it has come on in leaps and bounds.  I'm sure if grown in better soil it would become a thug....
Chris,
I bought mine as colchicum but with the help of Stearn's book I found out what it was. It also fits the pictures of the orange one here perfectly. I grow it in a better place than you describe and it certainly seems to thrive but it expands slowly unlike pauciflorum.

My question about the name is: Olga's pictures show very great difference in colour. The picture in Stearn's book looks somewhat intermediate but it could all be in the printing. Stearn gives warlayense (No Orangekönigin) as appearing spontaneously in Miss Willmott's garden Great Warley before 1932. He describes the colour as yellow with red veins which looks more like 'Orangekönigin' to me.
So my question is which one is Mis Willmott's one and from where comes the other? Both are obviously the result of the same cross (alpinum x pinnatum) so both can be named x warlayense followed by a cultivar name. Who put the name on the lighter one and has the darker one any cultivar name. Red queen would be appropriate :).

Tricky question but important for anybody (read me  ;) ) who wants to buy the darker one via mail order or when not in flower.

By the way. Is there a mail order nursery that can supply species like stellulatum, sagittatum and platypetalum,?

Göte
 
 
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on April 21, 2009, 10:11:59 AM
Teyl de Bordes of Lilliesleaf Nursery, Garden Cottage, Linthill, Melrose, Roxburghshire, Scotland TD6 9HU
has had a good number of Epimedium on his list in the past.... not sure about recently, but worth  checking with him.
telephone +44 (0) 1835 870415   I think the email is lleafnursery@aol.com   
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on April 21, 2009, 11:12:41 AM
Long Acre Plants may be worth a look at http://www.longacreplants.co.uk/
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on April 21, 2009, 05:49:25 PM
Thank you both  ;D
Will check with them
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 21, 2009, 08:05:35 PM
They send plants only to GB.  :(
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: ChrisB on April 21, 2009, 09:37:30 PM
Teyl used to have a NC of epimedium, and knows a lot about them....
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 26, 2009, 12:21:52 PM
three more open at the moment

Epimedium latisepalum
Epimedium sp.
Epimedium golden eagle
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Yang on April 27, 2009, 09:37:24 AM
It's so beautiful!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Regelian on May 12, 2009, 08:53:34 PM
I just harvested some slightly green Epimedium seed.  Does it require any special treatment to germinate?  How about using GA-3?

Olga,

you have an amazing collection of Epimedium.  And, like you noted, the foliage is nothing to be snuffed at.  I love the emerging tones in the Spring.  Really gets the heart racing.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Gunilla on May 13, 2009, 04:35:00 PM
At our plant sale last week I was lucky to find some nice Epimediums. My knowledge of this species is non-existing but I have been inspired by all the beautiful pictures in this thread. 

These two are now flowering in my garden thanks to you all  ;D   And they both have lovely new leaves as well.

Epimedium 'Amber Queen'
Epimedium chlorandrum 



Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on May 13, 2009, 07:00:38 PM
Gunilla,
Your chlorandrum is a beauty but it is not chlorandrum. Possibly rhizomatosum but it is necessay to see the whole plant including the rhizomes to be sure.
There is a good book about Epimediums but many do not fit and many out there are wrongly named.
However, the hybrid called 'rubrum' is a real stalwart. Unfortunately the flowers are below the leaves.
Brachyrrhizum is an early bird and I think this is correctly named.
Cheers
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on May 13, 2009, 07:16:09 PM
... the hybrid called 'rubrum' is a real stalwart. Unfortunately the flowers are below the leaves.

Can that be corrected by removing the old foliage in late winter? Or does the new foliage emerge early enough to swamp the flowers?

I finally managed to get outside and cut down several of my epimediums (nothing special) this spring before new growth started. They looked a lot better while in flower that way, esp. E. pubiflorum which grows close to the house entrance.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Lori S. on May 13, 2009, 08:06:37 PM
Not many of the leaves survive the winter in good shape here on E. x rubrum (or on any of the others I have), so I generally cut them down to the ground in the spring cleanup.  On my E. x rubrum, the flowers are always amongst and under the new leaves, nonetheless... nice big boughs of flowers but I do have to hunt a bit to see them! 
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Diane Whitehead on May 13, 2009, 08:08:14 PM
I bought a pallidum this year, but did not photograph it while it was
flowering.  I thought it had white flowers, though the catalogue of
the nursery where I bought it says it is yellow-flowered.

Seedpods are forming.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: Gunilla on May 13, 2009, 09:43:53 PM
Gunilla,
Your chlorandrum is a beauty but it is not chlorandrum. Possibly rhizomatosum but it is necessay to see the whole plant including the rhizomes to be sure.

Thanks Göte.  I just let the magpies have that label too, then  :)  I made a google search for E. rhizomatosum and it looks very much like the one I got. 
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on May 14, 2009, 08:19:02 AM
... the hybrid called 'rubrum' is a real stalwart. Unfortunately the flowers are below the leaves.

Can that be corrected by removing the old foliage in late winter? Or does the new foliage emerge early enough to swamp the flowers?

I finally managed to get outside and cut down several of my epimediums (nothing special) this spring before new growth started. They looked a lot better while in flower that way, esp. E. pubiflorum which grows close to the house entrance.
It is not very visible in the picture because the foliage looms over the flowers but I refer to the leaves on the flowering stalk. I.e. to this year's leaves. I cut off the foliage of more and more species in the late winter since it just looks untidy and will be discarded by the plant anyway.
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium 2009
Post by: gote on May 26, 2009, 09:28:32 AM
My epimediums do not seem to be as floriferous this year - except rubrum and this one: grandiflorum 'Lilafee'
Cheers
Göte
Title: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 04, 2010, 04:28:00 AM
As a new-comer to SRGC Forum, I missed out on the very interesting "Epimedium 2009" discussion.  I hope to revisit some of the  information and questions posed in the 2009 thread in 2010.  So, I'm pleased to kick off "Epimedium 2010".

There is life beyond Allium & Onions for the "Onion Man", and I'm a serious admirer of Epimedium as well, as well as many other plants.  I call my beloved Epimedium plants "eppies" for short.  I am most fortunate being located just a mere 45 minutes drive from the "epicenter of Epimedium", the epimedium extravaganza that is Garden Vision Nursery founded by epi-jedi master Darrell Probst, in Hubbardston, Massachusetts. I will discuss this in more in the future.

Let me start with a single recent species, E. wushanense, a species that is only recent and rarely obtainable.  Epimedium wushanense "Spiny-leaved Forms" is a selection from several clones grown by Darrell, that grows lower and leafier, with shorter condensed panicles of large bloom.  I got my plant at a local NARGS auction 3 years back, where Darrell as usual generously donated a wonderful selection of choicest of choice epimedium to benefit our chapter.

This species has proved completely hardy (most epimediums are absolutely hardy) and completely evergreen in my harsh Zone 5 garden (a number of eppies are indeed evergreen here), with bold, glossy, spiny-edged foliage, and dense spikes of substantially large white and yolk-yellow flowers in May.  The only problem with the flowers is that they droop downwards towards the ground and get dirt-splashed.  In the photo, I am lifting up two flower spikes.  I think this species has incredible potential for breeding.  More to come.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: galahad on January 04, 2010, 04:56:52 AM
Thanks for starting the 2010 thread.  I love Epimediums and need to find some more
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on January 04, 2010, 05:14:22 AM
Nice one Mark,

Do you ever self pollinate your species? Im starting to find hybrids among some of mine.

Your luck to have a close source of a very nice genus.

Looking forward to some more picks

cheers
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 04, 2010, 11:57:51 AM
Mark - Thanks for posting the pictures of E. wushanense.  I just got some plants from Philip McDougall in Vancouver this past autumn and look forward to some variation.  Hopefully he will post some pictures too as he has a good collection.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on January 04, 2010, 12:16:20 PM
That is a fabolus Epimedium and one i will try to find.
When I look out through the window I have ten inches of snow and the temperature is -4°C expected to get down to -15°C in the night.
Is winter already over in your place?
Cheers
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 04, 2010, 12:45:17 PM
Mark, these are wonderful. The second pic reminds me of a tiny mahonia.
I have never seen epimedium seeds offered for sale anywhere. I wondered if the plants are sterile but now find out they hybridize.
Do they only set seed rarely?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 02:02:33 PM
Amazing "Eppie" Mark, I didn't know it  :o Maggiepie, seeds are very small and I never thought to collect them  :-[ Why ? I don't know  ::) But I shall try from mines this year !
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 02:10:45 PM
Mark, intrigued by your Epimedium wushanense I made some searches on Web but the images which I found show a flower much smaller and more spaced out on the stalk. Is it a cultivar? Or a botanic ?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 04, 2010, 03:25:09 PM
Mark, intrigued by your Epimedium wushanense I made some searches on Web but the images which I found show a flower much smaller and more spaced out on the stalk. Is it a cultivar? Or a botanic ?

Darrell Probst has a number of wild-collected forms of E. wushanense.  He sells this selected form annotated as E. wushanense "Spiny-leaved Forms"... this in itself representing several clones.  He says they were selected for their leafier more compact habit and shorter (thus more dense) bloom panicles. One can also assume it was selected for its particularly spiny leaf form.

One really important thing to know about eppies before planting them in the garden, is to know their spreading capabilities (be careful of the "rompers").  Most are clumpers, some are mildly spreading, some are far-ranging invading rompers ready to take over some major real estate.  What I appreciate about the Garden Vision Nursery catalog, is that the root growth type is described in the list.  He says of this one, it spreads by 4" (10 cm) rhizomes.  I eagerly anticipate a meter-wide clump in a few more years.  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 04, 2010, 04:04:52 PM
Mark, these are wonderful. The second pic reminds me of a tiny mahonia.
I have never seen epimedium seeds offered for sale anywhere. I wondered if the plants are sterile but now find out they hybridize.
Do they only set seed rarely?

The similarity to Mahonia is for good reason, both Mahonia and Epimedium are members of Berberidaceae, but it isn't until one starts seeing spiny-leaved Epimedium species like wushanense, hunanense, ilicifolium, that one plainly sees the affinity.

Good question about seed.  Mine seed about all over the place, but I welcome this tendency.  I have 170 species and cultivars, and believe that most make seed.  The tiny green "pea pods" hold few to many even tinier succulent pale seeds, looking green and non-viable, but they are indeed viable.  I believe the seeds are probably ephemeral and need to be sown when ripe.  Even my wushanense made lots of largish plump seed pods. When the pods are squeezed lightly in summer, if the seam easily splits open to reveal the seeds, they are ready.  Mostly I just scratch the seed into the pine bark mulch areas adjacent to the mother plant, then the following year gather up many seedlings into flats, to be planted out in the yard someplace (I hate throwing out even a single eppie seedling).

I searched for some photos that show seed pods, but I don't think I took any specifically for that purpose, but chanced upon a photo of Epimedium x versiscolor 'Versicolor' just after peak bloom, and you can see lots of little green pea-pods. (MMcD Update: the pods on E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' are empty, as the variety is apparently sterile)    And just to be fair with this most excellent variety, I upload a photo of the plant in full flower.  All of the E. x versicolor forms are first rate but this one is among the most floriferous, and displays utterly remarkable chameleonesque colored foliage spring, summer, fall and into winter.  I will be ulpoading a "time-line" series showing 2-3 Epimediums going through the seasons.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 04, 2010, 04:17:36 PM
Do you ever self pollinate your species? Im starting to find hybrids among some of mine.
cheers

I don't self pollinate them, never really had the time, but I'm getting lots of spontaneous hybrids.  Now, I am purposely planting certain epimediums in close proximity to each other, to enhance desired hybrid possibilities.  Got some interesting hybrids coming along, such as Epimedium brevicornu x membranaceum... it's fun to find these.  I have a few ideas about interesting hybrid combinations, and may try dabbling a bit with hand-made crosses.

Darrell Probst on the other hand, does hand pollinate, and has huge rows of mind-boggling hybrids that defy belief and await introduction.  He also has lots and lots of "sp nova" things, and unusual clones of recent species, many not in cultivation yet. Even if he stopped hybriding these anymore, he problably has a two decades worth of hybrids that could be eventually introduced.  Our gardens will all be the richer for it.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 04:39:37 PM
How are you lucky Mark to have such a  nursery by your side !  ::) Could you show us photos of the species which you cultivate, at the same time flowers and foliages ? It would interest me a lot ! Here, it is difficult to find rare varieties or hybrids, but the French gardeners begin to be interested in "eppies" in France
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Gunilla on January 04, 2010, 06:10:25 PM
I have just discovered Epimediums and love them already. I will follow this thread with interest.  This picture of seedpods is from June last year.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 04, 2010, 06:18:46 PM
Mark, the plant looks like it has tons of seed.
If the seeds are ephemeral, would they keep in damp vermiculite for a week or so?
For mailing purposes.

Gunilla, terrific pic of the seeds.
I too have only just discovered epimediums, a new nursery opened up and had a couple in flower, first time ( and last) that I have seen them offered locally.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 04, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
In the Scottish Borders, the nursery of Teyl de Bordes used to have a lot of Eppies.... did I hear he has retired? What news of the nursery, anyone??
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 06:41:49 PM
Hi all "eppies" friends, could we try exchanging our "eppie" seeds ?  :D I have never seen Epimedium seeds on Exchange list
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 04, 2010, 06:57:32 PM
Nicole, I have to admit I have never collected seed from any of our eppies.... :-[
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 04, 2010, 07:12:07 PM
Maggi, is there any particular reason why you have never collected seed?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 04, 2010, 07:15:41 PM
I'm pleased to see this new thread for Epimedium too. One of those frustrating genera for New Zealanders as there only a few here and nothing recent at all. Just a dozen are on the MAF permitted list and most have been in the country for 50 years or more. So Ross, I'd love more too but where are we to get them? :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 04, 2010, 07:17:04 PM
Maggi, is there any particular reason why you have never collected seed?
Idleness and inattention, Helen.... plus I am hopless about the identification of the wretched things so could not put a proper name to most.  :-\ :-X :-[ :P
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 04, 2010, 07:25:05 PM
Maggi, is there any particular reason why you have never collected seed?
Idleness and inattention, Helen.... plus I am hopless about the identification of the wretched things so could not put a proper name to most.  :-\ :-X :-[ :P

Well Maggi, if you find yourself with nothing to do ( haha) when your plants have seeds, I would love to have a few, don't care if they are unknown.
Of course I will be more than happy to pay for p&p etc :-[ :)
I might even be able to find something you might like. :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 07:32:20 PM
Maggi and Maggipie,  :D I shall collect seeds on my Epimedium if I get seeds and if someones want to trade whith me fresh seeds  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 04, 2010, 07:36:21 PM
Fleurbleue, I would be happy to look for seeds on mine for trade but only have Rosea and Rubra, I think those are probably amongst the most common? ???
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 07:49:16 PM
I have x versicolor neosulphureum ( light yellow), rubrum, pauciflorum (light pink), leptorrhizum (pink large flower), pallidum (near the same than versicolor), grandiflorum nanum (white with pretty foliage, marroon edged), grandiflorum Red Ruby et Rubin Krone and few very young ones ; I am just hoping they will set seeds  :D  Maggipie we shall find a solution  ;)  And Maggi, no matter for the unknown ones if they are beautiful  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: shelagh on January 04, 2010, 07:53:41 PM
Helen the Epimediums are know as the Barrenworts.  Seed is often small and very rare we have quite a collection oe E. and have only found a couple of SSS (self sown seedlings) during the past 10 years.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on January 04, 2010, 08:11:47 PM
Hi all ,

I have offered in year 2007 seeds of Epimedium pinnatum ssp. colchicum :

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=308.msg12129#msg12129

There was not so big interest  :-\

The seeds was send to a nice friend in England -I hope the seedlings grows well !
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 04, 2010, 08:49:11 PM
Maggi, is there any particular reason why you have never collected seed?
Idleness and inattention, Helen.... plus I am hopless about the identification of the wretched things so could not put a proper name to most.  :-\ :-X :-[ :P

I recommend contacting Karen Perkins who now runs Garden Vision Epimediums (Darrell's ex) at epimediums@earthlink.net and request a 2010 catalog (typically not ready until late April).  Not sure if there is a cost for the catalog (it does come with 12 pages of color photos and is fairly heavy as catalogs go), you can ask.  They do ship bare root to Canada and Europe, although the phyto and shipping fees are quite high.  Darrell Probst has spent 15 years travelling the world, botanizing in China and Japan, searching out new species and verifiable older cultivars alike, straightening out the nomenclatural mess that was Epimedium, including duplicate named and confused cultivars.  What's amazing about the catalog is that it actually serves as a sort of monograph, a highly informational listing of most species, new species, the species groups (x youngianum, x versicolor, et al), and history on many of the cultivars.  All plants sold are numbered with Darrell's accession numbers, to keep them straight and true.  If you do write, tell Karen that Mark McDonough says "Hi" :-)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 04, 2010, 09:00:54 PM
   Epimediums are my new plant du jour. I had the good luck to order 5 plants of Epimedium latisepalum from Chen Yi 4 years ago. I recieved pencil lead thin 2 inch rhizomes, I had no expectations they  would survive. But Epimediums are amoung the toughest of plants. They turned out to be something that keys out near to E. wushanense and are spectacular. At 4 feet tall Epimedium elatum has been noted as the largest plant in the genus but E. wushanense will give it a run for the money. There is a plant on the market called E. wushanense Caramel which is more likely a natural hybrid. The clones I have are variable, one also shows some winter mottling to the leaves, a few of the open pollinated seedlings of this plant have jaw dropping winter foliage. Darrel Probst collected another as yet un-named new species he simply calls the "The Giant". This plant has very limp flower scapes, perhaps for scrambling through shrubs. The scapes are indeterminate and continue growing and flowering through the season, Darrell reports these will extend to 8 feet long. I finally cut the still flowering scapes down in Nov., seedlings crosses with E. wushanense have just begun germinating this week.
  Of note more than half of the members of this genus have only been introduced in the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 04, 2010, 09:04:27 PM
More leaves, how boring
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 04, 2010, 09:06:28 PM
shelagh, I would love to see pics of some of yours.

Hans, I bet if you offer the seed this year you will get some takers  :)

Mark, I happen to have a 2008 catalogue from Garden Vision, there were 10 pages of colour photos to drool over.
Unfortunately, the 125$ phyto certificate and 80$ basic shipping is outside my budget.
One can always dream of winning the lottery  ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 09:12:13 PM
Thank you very much Philip for pics  ;) Your E. wushanense has a wonderful foliage ! and the others are very pretty  ::)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on January 04, 2010, 09:27:26 PM
I have a reasonable collection and some seed has set each year. As they are all growing close together this is most likely to be hybrid. I collected some last year (it is very quickely shed and lost) and this has germinated very easily and I have a dozen small plants growing on. I also have seed from Hans growing on.

The Prost catalogue is very exciting but the prices to rich for me.

Three pics of mine.

The first is Epimedium wushanense
then two sp. The first has Epimedium platypetalum in the background

At the moment although frozen most still have their foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 04, 2010, 09:39:25 PM
Quote
At 4 feet tall Epimedium elatum has been noted as the largest plant in the genus but E. wushanense will give it a run for the money. There is a plant on the market called E. wushanense Caramel which is more likely a natural hybrid. The clones I have are variable, one also shows some winter mottling to the leaves, a few of the open pollinated seedlings of this plant have jaw dropping winter foliage. Darrel Probst collected another as yet un-named new species he simply calls the "The Giant". This plant has very limp flower scapes, perhaps for scrambling through shrubs. The scapes are indeterminate and continue growing and flowering through the season, Darrell reports these will extend to 8 feet long.

Holy moly! I haven't got space for brutes like that! Those are TRIFFIDS!! :o
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
The Epimedium World is wonderful Tony  ::) and yours are very desirable  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 04, 2010, 09:50:59 PM
And what a very hot post Maggi  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 04, 2010, 11:06:59 PM
Keep this mind folks: If you want to rouse Philip from double dormancy just mention the E word.

More please Mr. McD.

Let's see if this shot of his E. latisepalum sparks a response.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 04, 2010, 11:19:41 PM
John, I completely forgot about that pic. Will look through and try to post a couple more. Philip
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Paul T on January 05, 2010, 12:26:50 AM
Fantastic pics everyone.  I have a reasonable collection of them here.... thankfully there are a couple of people who have imported (and are still importing) plants into Australia.  I too would love to try seed though, to see what hybrids may appear.  Well worth the try I would imagine.  I've never seen seed on any of mine, but have never particularly looked for them either I must admit.

Great discussion!! 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 12:41:22 AM
Mark, I happen to have a 2008 catalogue from Garden Vision, there were 10 pages of colour photos to drool over.
Unfortunately, the 125$ phyto certificate and 80$ basic shipping is outside my budget.
One can always dream of winning the lottery  ;D

I mentioned that phyto and shipping were expensive ;-)

Maybe worth it if a few people nearby pooled an order together.  But, the plants are expensive too.  No need to go for the newest (current year) introductions, as they'll be very expensive, go for some of those introduced earlier.  They're all good, so many of the lesser expensive grandiflorums and "x youngianums" are completely charming.  I was fortunate to get my E. wushanense "Spiny-leaf form" at a local NARGS chapter plant auction, where Darrell donated the plant... I won the bid at under $40, where he listed the plant for $150 (but it came down in price in 2009 to $125, which is still expensive).  But everything is outside my budget now, as I find myself unemployed... the one thing I looked forward to every year was placing a $350 order or so, and picking it up at one of his two "open nursery weekends" in May.  I'm still working on winning the lottery myself!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 12:45:18 AM
  Epimediums are my new plant du jour. I had the good luck to order 5 plants of Epimedium latisepalum from Chen Yi 4 years ago. I recieved pencil lead thin 2 inch rhizomes, I had no expectations they  would survive. But Epimediums are amoung the toughest of plants. They turned out to be something that keys out near to E. wushanense and are spectacular. At 4 feet tall Epimedium elatum has been noted as the largest plant in the genus but E. wushanense will give it a run for the money. There is a plant on the market called E. wushanense Caramel which is more likely a natural hybrid. The clones I have are variable, one also shows some winter mottling to the leaves, a few of the open pollinated seedlings of this plant have jaw dropping winter foliage. Darrel Probst collected another as yet un-named new species he simply calls the "The Giant". This plant has very limp flower scapes, perhaps for scrambling through shrubs. The scapes are indeterminate and continue growing and flowering through the season, Darrell reports these will extend to 8 feet long. I finally cut the still flowering scapes down in Nov., seedlings crosses with E. wushanense have just begun germinating this week.
  Of note more than half of the members of this genus have only been introduced in the last 20 years.

Philip, thanks for the wonderful posting of photos and Epi information.  I have a number of comments which I'll post later tonight... going to take a break and watch some evening TV then come back to SRCG!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Paul T on January 05, 2010, 12:49:38 AM
Mark,

You mean that we can leave the computer?  I didn't realise that...... must be why I never seem to get anything else done around this place.  ;D ;D  I must try it one of these days.  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 03:39:18 AM
Care to comment on the merits of these here:

Epimedium acuminata (Starling)
Epimedium davidii (Heronswood)
Epimedium franchetti (Asiatica but not on their list lately)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'A' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'B' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'C' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium leptorrhizum (Heronswood)
Epimedium pubigerum (Thimble)
Epimedium rubrum  (M. Charlton)
Epimedium wushanense (MacDougall)
Epimedium x perralchicum (dp yellow) (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x versicolor 'Neosulphureum' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Ellen Willmot' (VV)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Orangekonigin' (HS)
Epimedium 'Yubae' (Heronswood)

Philip the Heronswood ones are from the trip we took in 1997 - remember the year we bought all the Arisaemas, Arisaema pots that is, later found out the bulbs were apparently not included.  Why I bought Epimediums is beyond me but happy they are here now. May have been recommended by you.   I see E. latisepalum (MacDougall) and E. Brimstone Butterfly (Lost Horizons) are amongst the missing, rats.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 04:23:46 AM
   Epimediums are my new plant du jour. I had the good luck to order 5 plants of Epimedium latisepalum from Chen Yi 4 years ago. I recieved pencil lead thin 2 inch rhizomes, I had no expectations they  would survive. But Epimediums are amoung the toughest of plants. They turned out to be something that keys out near to E. wushanense and are spectacular. At 4 feet tall Epimedium elatum has been noted as the largest plant in the genus but E. wushanense will give it a run for the money. There is a plant on the market called E. wushanense Caramel which is more likely a natural hybrid. The clones I have are variable, one also shows some winter mottling to the leaves, a few of the open pollinated seedlings of this plant have jaw dropping winter foliage. Darrel Probst collected another as yet un-named new species he simply calls the "The Giant". This plant has very limp flower scapes, perhaps for scrambling through shrubs. The scapes are indeterminate and continue growing and flowering through the season, Darrell reports these will extend to 8 feet long. I finally cut the still flowering scapes down in Nov., seedlings crosses with E. wushanense have just begun germinating this week.
  Of note more than half of the members of this genus have only been introduced in the last 20 years.

Philip, many things to comment on here, thanks so much for sharing your enthusiasm.

1.  Glad you featured fall color on epimediums, particularly evergreen ones, a great asset in the garden.  I plan an exposé to explore not only the fabulous spring color on many eppies, but also the 2nd foliar flush on many, and then the fall/winter color.  It's a genus attribute rarely explored.  Your fall/winter foliar closeups of wushanense progeny show well the potential for diversity and hybridization.

2. Your greenhouse shots of various eppies, particularly wushanense and sp. nov. 'The Giant' are remindful of my memories of the same plant's in Darrell's 100' long greenhouse.  He introduced 'The Giant' in 2007... maybe you had this before the introduction to get such impressive growth on your plants.  Have you been to Darrell's place? It is amazing if you haven't been there before, and certainly worth a trip for any serious Epimediuphile.  Are you doing hybridization in the greenhouse? I am envious of such possibilities as I don't have a greenhouse... all eppies must do it outside here ;-)

3. Regarding E. wushanense clone 4, I actually like the thought of taller forms, with bold flowers standing proud and upright for all to see, as I mentioned the one downside of Darrell's "Shiny-leaved Forms" is that the flowers hang low under the leaves and get splattered with mud.

4. I keep my past Garden Vision Nursery catalogs, but mysteriously I'm missing a couple years. I could be wrong but I thought E. wushanense 'Caramel' was introduced by Darrell, but can't find a reference at the moment. Regardless, it's an awesome development in Epimedium, with such large spidery blooms of rich and inviting caramel color.  Darrell has beds with swathes of hybrid seedlings that simply take your breath away, fabulous colored mottled foliage, and relatively low branching sprays of huge spidery blooms in every shade, from warm caramel browns and tans, brown-pinks, warm pink and purples, rose-yellow combinations, you name it... simply spectacular.

5. You show a photo of an Epimedium x sasakii selection.  I thought it was cool for a few years having some of Darrell's several forms of this plant, with the name being coincidental with the company name where I worked, but now it's a bittersweet after getting laid off after 20+ years service, a reminder that companies don't care about their employees anymore and treat their senior staff as mere disposable commodities.

6. Back to Darrell's sp. nov.'The Giant', looking through my past Garden Vision Nurseries, in 2007 he offered it in his "Expedition Fund" section, where the purchase of a new exciting species also helped fund his expeditions... the cost was $500  (yikes).  Since then, in 2009 catalog, the cost dropped to a mere $300 (yikes again).  Looks like I won't be getting this one anytime soon ;-)

7. I see that many people are still buying from Chen Yi.  It is almost 100% guaranteed that everything they send is indeed from China, but almost 100% guaranteed that everything is misidentified. I have personally had such findings from my single ordering experience from Chen Yi (but heard similar stories from others many times) where all Allium and Fritillaria species I ordered were completely misidentified... not even close.

The world of Epimediums is now ripe for exploitation and development.  On the plus side of things, Epimedium hybrids still look like graceful wild plants, unlike the almost monstrous developments going in such genera as Echinacea right now.  Epimediums have it all, fabulous foliage and beautiful flowers, always looking gradeful and natural. I see one of Darrell's oldest hybrids in your postings, E. x rubrum 'Sweetheart', a cross between E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' (fantastic foliage, pallid flowers) and E. alpinum (aggressive spreading species with tiny red/yellow flowers), resulting in an eppie with good foliage indeed but with negligible flowers... I'm still watching the spread on this one. The hybrid is okay overall, but given the newer possibilities with incredible species and cultivars, the concentration should be on really special new plants.  Your wushanense seedlings show such promise.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 04:31:32 AM
Care to comment on the merits of these here:

Epimedium acuminata (Starling)
Epimedium davidii (Heronswood)
Epimedium franchetti (Asiatica but not on their list lately)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'A' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'B' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'C' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium leptorrhizum (Heronswood)
Epimedium pubigerum (Thimble)
Epimedium rubrum  (M. Charlton)
Epimedium wushanense (MacDougall)
Epimedium x perralchicum (dp yellow) (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x versicolor 'Neosulphureum' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Ellen Willmot' (VV)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Orangekonigin' (HS)
Epimedium 'Yubae' (Heronswood)

Philip the Heronswood ones are from the trip we took in 1997 - remember the year we bought all the Arisaemas, Arisaema pots that is, later found out the bulbs were apparently not included.  Why I bought Epimediums is beyond me but happy they are here now. May have been recommended by you.  I see E. latisepalum (MacDougall) and E. Brimstone Butterfly (Lost Horizons) are amongst the missing, rats.

johnw

John, all are good, although I don't know what E. grandiflorum 'A', 'B', & 'C' refer to. From Darrell Probst's offerings, I grow 48 E. grandiflorum species and cultivars, but of known authenticity.  Do the ABC forms represent hybrids from a person named M.Charlton?

I also don't know the E. x warleyense 'Ellen Willmot' cultivar, can you describe it?  I grow the other two widely grown forms of Epimedium x warleyense.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 04:41:17 AM
Mark,

You mean that we can leave the computer?  I didn't realise that...... must be why I never seem to get anything else done around this place.  ;D ;D  I must try it one of these days.  ;)

Yes, but you have to make up for it with extra consecutive SRGC postings, otherwise you lose points.  I'm starting to get worried, I haven't even started to dig in with my other interests, Crocus, Tulipa, Arisaema, etc.  I'll need to stay unemployed just to keep abreast of the developments!   :o
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 04:56:28 AM
I wanted to return to Epimedium 2010 with something more basic. While all these new exotic Chinese Epimediums entice us with spectacularly unusual plant habit, bold evergreen mottled foliage and such, many other species and cultivars are more quiet and subtle, yet still fundamentally beautiful and essential to the garden.

I grow 39 Epimedium x youngianum forms, and love them all.  This group represents hybrids between E. grandiflorum and diphyllum, but one can also assume some of the lines have been blurred in the hybridization process.  They're all charming small clump-forming plants, equally nice for the flowers as the foliage, all suitable to smaller gardens where space is a premium.  Here's a classic example: E. youngianum 'Jenny Wren' taken on May 11, 2007, low and floriferous in bloom with showy bloom above the foliage, and with nice speckled foliage season round.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 05, 2010, 06:46:28 AM
   Now I don't know where to start.
   A lot of comment on the price of Epimediums. I asked our resident expert in tissue propagation here on the west coast why he wasn't doing Epimediums. Dan Heims tells me they are quite doable but slow, so much so that it's just as effective to propagate them with more traditional methods. Some of my seedlings when growing well have bloomed on 2 year old plants. Seeds ripen and disperse rapidly, ants take them immediately because of the fatty deposit each seed carries. They are also ephemeral. They are also not self fertile, many species have been represented by just one clone. These characters probably are a factor in so few species coming into cultivation until recently. Darrell has said all of his collections were of live material, seed was impossible to gather in the wild. I don't think people realize yet how many good introductions we now have available, the traditionally grown Epimediums have been with us for a century or more, great garden plants but people are a little jaded with them. The price of the new ones should come down as more people acquire and propagate them. I won't tell you how much The Giant set me back, my excuse is that I can use it for breeding.
  Mark, I've never been to Garden Visions, I'm envious of your proximity. I kept waiting for them to go on-line with a catalog, it didn't happen, perhaps just as well for my Visa. I will break down this year and order an old fashioned  catalog. 
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: galahad on January 05, 2010, 06:51:03 AM
I'm pleased to see this new thread for Epimedium too. One of those frustrating genera for New Zealanders as there only a few here and nothing recent at all. Just a dozen are on the MAF permitted list and most have been in the country for 50 years or more. So Ross, I'd love more too but where are we to get them? :'( :'( :'(
Ah the same old story, eh?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 05, 2010, 08:08:19 AM
Maggie, You mentioned you don't have enough space for a large species of Epimedium,. My instinct would be to radomly select something and toss it. In lieu of that how about this species, Epimedium ecalcaratum. 2 or 3 inches tall in this clone, very thin long loose rhizomes have yet to form an inpenatrable mat. I'm hoping it can be ysed to create some other tiny forms. I like to get Epimedium diphyllum nanum this year, said to be good in a trough. Can any one sugesst other tiny forms for the rockery. Philip
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 11:44:42 AM
Mark - The E. grandiflorum A,B & C are simply three different clones received from a friend.  I will have to have a good look at them in the Spring to see how they differ.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 04:00:37 PM
Keep this mind folks: If you want to rouse Philip from double dormancy just mention the E word.

More please Mr. McD.

Let's see if this shot of his E. latisepalum sparks a response.

johnw

Well, that's about the prettiest mottled foliage I've seen on an epimedium, very nice!  E. latisepalum had not been on Darrell's list that I can remember and I'm unfamiliar with it, except knowing it has white flowers.  John, has your plant flowered for you?  How tall does this one grow?  Is it a spreader or a clumper?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 05:10:01 PM
Keep this mind folks: If you want to rouse Philip from double dormancy just mention the E word.

More please Mr. McD.

Let's see if this shot of his E. latisepalum sparks a response.

johnw

Well, that's about the prettiest mottled foliage I've seen on an epimedium, very nice!  E. latisepalum had not been on Darrell's list that I can remember and I'm unfamiliar with it, except knowing it has white flowers.  John, has your plant flowered for you?  How tall does this one grow?  Is it a spreader or a clumper?

Mark - Unfortunately that is Philip's hand in the photo. And note how firmly he is grasping that pot, in his garden.   Someday he'll propagate it and we just might see one this way.

I had an E. latisepalum from Philip but it must have disappeared.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 05:20:02 PM
Maggie, You mentioned you don't have enough space for a large species of Epimedium,. My instinct would be to radomly select something and toss it. In lieu of that how about this species, Epimedium ecalcaratum. 2 or 3 inches tall in this clone, very thin long loose rhizomes have yet to form an inpenatrable mat. I'm hoping it can be ysed to create some other tiny forms. I like to get Epimedium diphyllum nanum this year, said to be good in a trough. Can any one sugesst other tiny forms for the rockery. Philip

With all of the eppies that I have, it's funny that in one SRCG page you guys discuss 2 species that I don't have; E. latisepalum and ecalcaratum!  Philip, your ecalcaratum is stunning with the blazing red spring leaflets and bright yellow "thimbles".  Sounds like it's a spreader based on your description of the rhizomes. Two other species that are similar in appearance (with yellow thimble-like flowers, with tiny reduced sepals) are E. campanulatum and platypetalum.  The former is a clumper with low foliage to 6", but stems that can reach 18-24" tall (for me, they splay outwards, not upwards), and the latter is a spreader (8-12" a year according to Darrell).  Another dwarf yellow one with red-mottled foliage is E. rhizomatosum, but I found the rhizomes so long and aggressive that I desperately dug it all up and untangled the invading rhizomes from other plants and neighboring eppies, and moved the tangled mass of rhizomes and planted them under a bed of hybrid lilacs, letting the lilac roots duke it out with the low carpetting eppie.


In terms of low Epimediums for the rock garden, sort of depends on the scale of the garden I suppose, but even though some species and cultivars are rather low, many have a second flush of foliage after flowering that can more than double the apparent size of the plant.  But here are some suggestions:

E. x setosum - delicate clumping sort, several clones, adorable leaves & delicate white flowers.
(Photo uploaded)
E. x setosum 'Nanum'- 5" tall, second flush to 10" tall.
E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' - 3-5" in bloom, 10" after second flush (choice)
E. grandiflorum var. coelestre - Japanese, from "high alpine heights", 9", greenish yellow flowers
E. grandiflorum var. coelestre 'Alpine Beauty'- 6" tall "tight bun", light yellow
E. grandiflorum var. higoense (including cultivars 'Bandit', 'Saturn', 'Saturn'), all low growing
E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Nanum'- 6" light yellow, 12-16" second foliar flush
E. elachyphyllum - 6" tall, 2" rhizomes, simple single leaflets, evergreen.
...also various smaller cultivars such as E. x youngianum 'Liliputian'.  (photo uploaded)

Keep away from some of the other low growers that romp around and invade, including E. alpinum 'Shrimp Girl', pauciflorum, rhizomatosum, unless they get introduced to wilder parts of the garden.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on January 05, 2010, 05:38:02 PM
Here is what I have as Epimedium latisepalum. The first is a pretty awful picture when it was still in a pot.

The second and third now it has been released into the garden. I determined it as latisepalum from Stearn's monograph.

It is a wonderful plant.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 05, 2010, 05:40:22 PM
Lovely plants Mark these two white eppies   ::)

Tony your eppie is very amazing  :o
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 05:43:04 PM
The first is a pretty awful picture when it was still in a pot.
It is a wonderful plant.


Holy Toledo!  It's smashing.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 05:48:04 PM
Here is what I have as Epimedium latisepalum. The first is a pretty awful picture when it was still in a pot.

The second and third now it has been released into the garden. I determined it as latisepalum from Stearn's monograph.
It is a wonderful plant.

I'm going to have to get on Darrell's case, to find out why he doesn't sell this one ;-)   I'm sure he has it, just hasn't offered it yet.  I'm really impressed with the large substantial look to both the plant and the flowers.  One's mind races with thoughts of wonderous hybrid possibilities  :o
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 06:25:16 PM
Epimedium prices.

In the case of Garden Vision Nursery, I'm willing each year to fork over $300-$400 for my annual Epimedium order, selecting a couple newer cultivars for $30-$40 each, then some of the many grandiflorums and youngianums which average a much lower affordable cost, the latter types being the "work horses" in the garden.  I'm willing to pay some extra for validated plants of known origin, and plants that are excellently grown in loose bark mulch as Darrell & Karen grow them, where the roots are ready to expand into neighboring soil (unlike the 100% peat that many nurseries in the US have moved to, where the blasted peat "root-blocks" create impenetrable peat blobs that isolate the roots from neighboring soil, creating an island effect, and even easy perennials invariably die of drought, one of my pet peeves!). 

I'm also willing to spend money on Epimediums, as at least here in New England, USA, they're so permanent and last forever!  I have several epimediums that I bought from George Schenk in the early 70s, and these plants are as steadfast as any plants could to be, making gorgeous clumps.

I found this link for those of you in the UK, you all probably know it, but the prices range between 4Ł - 6Ł, even for E. wushanense 'Caramel'!!! They also have some great cultivars I've not seen on this side of the pond: Epimedium 'Amber Queen' - Blackthorn Nursery (E.flavum x E.wushanense)... ooh la la!  One called 'Fire Dragon' looks awesome too. Might be cheaper for me to order these from UK than buy them here, that is of course, if I was employed and had the funds to spend on such frivolities ;-)

Long Acre Plants in the UK
http://www.plantsforshade.co.uk/acatalog/Epimedium.html

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on January 05, 2010, 07:06:24 PM
The first is a pretty awful picture when it was still in a pot.
It is a wonderful plant.


Holy Toledo!  It's smashing.

johnw

John did you notice the podophyllum seed pods dangling in the background on the second picture?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 05, 2010, 07:17:41 PM
I'm pleased to see this new thread for Epimedium too. One of those frustrating genera for New Zealanders as there only a few here and nothing recent at all. Just a dozen are on the MAF permitted list and most have been in the country for 50 years or more. So Ross, I'd love more too but where are we to get them? :'( :'( :'(
Ah the same old story, eh?

I do, however, have E. davidii, pictured above.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 05, 2010, 07:18:49 PM
Quote
Long Acre Plants in the UK
http://www.plantsforshade.co.uk/acatalog/Epimedium.html

I haven't bought from them myself, but they're listed in our Links pages, recommended by John Humphries......

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=links
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 05, 2010, 07:21:05 PM
The 'Jennie Wren' is a real stunner, exactly what I would like to see more of here.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Gunilla on January 05, 2010, 07:24:14 PM

They also have some great cultivars I've not seen on this side of the pond: Epimedium 'Amber Queen' - Blackthorn Nursery (E.flavum x E.wushanense)... ooh la la! 

I was lucky to find E. 'Amber Queen' last year and I'm very pleased with both leaves and flowers.

Tony
E. latisepalum is marvellous  :o. 

Mark
I really like E. x setosum, beautiful leaves and a lovely cloud of white flowers.   
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on January 05, 2010, 07:26:14 PM
Quote
Long Acre Plants in the UK
http://www.plantsforshade.co.uk/acatalog/Epimedium.html

I haven't bought from them myself, but they're listed in our Links pages, recommended by John Humphries......

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=links

A fine nursery with some lovely stuff.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 07:41:00 PM
The 'Jennie Wren' is a real stunner, exactly what I would like to see more of here.

More will be coming!  One thing that bothered me with so many Epimedium photos, they concentrate on a few little flowers, one never really sees what the plant will do in the garden after a few years.  My photos will mostly focus on what these beauties do in the garden.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Giles on January 05, 2010, 07:41:26 PM
A chap I used to be at college with sells alot of Epimediums  http://www.desirableplants.com/  (ruthless 'plug'  :o )
Mail Order only (EU), or will bring to shows.
I bought a Roscoea 'Red Gurkha' from him for my mother, and she hasn't managed to kill it yet (which is one hell of a recommendation  ;D )
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Giles on January 05, 2010, 07:46:46 PM
http://www.desirableplants.com/
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Carlo on January 05, 2010, 07:56:20 PM
Now THERE'S a plant I want to get my hands on. Roscoea 'Red Gurkha' has been at or near (changes sooooo often) the top of my lust list ever since I saw my first photograph of it!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 08:00:36 PM
I do, however, have E. davidii, pictured above.


A really choice species.  Lesley, does it grow and flower well for you?  How spreading is it? I have one form that has grown into my Iris henryi patch, and must be brave one day to dig it all up and extricate the epimedium, use it as a propagation opportunity... I did plant them too close together.  Some E. davidii spread more than others.

Garden Vision Epimendiums listed 5 selections in their 2009 catalog:
E. davidii "Robust Forms" - flowering 18-24" (45-60 cm), rhizomes to 4-8"
E. davidii "Wolong Dwarfs" - flowering 6-10" (15-25 cm), growth rate not indicated
E. davidii "Wolong Selections" - 18-24" stems, growth rate not indicated
E. davidii 'EMR4125' - original Martyn Rix collection
E. davidii 'Emerald Sheen' - 2008 introduction (expensive), 12-24" tall, shiny foliage, clumping but occasional rhizome.

I had the first 4 forms, eventually lost the "Wolong Dwarf" selection in the first winter after planting, a rare phenomenon.  Must get the dwarf form back again.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Carlo on January 05, 2010, 08:10:32 PM
Geez Mark, if I had a job, I'd offer to buy some divisions from you...
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 08:12:16 PM
http://www.desirableplants.com/


Some nice stuff there!  They have E. wushanense 'Caramel' for only 4.5£... at those prices I expect they'll be showing up at Walmart soon enough.

The Epimedium listing questions whether E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' and E. x versiciolor 'Cupreum' are one and the same plant, as no one knows the difference.  I grow both and ther are indeed different (albeit of similar flower color).  I will put it on my list to show both to illustrate the differences.  I've had my E. x versicolor 'Cupreum' since 1973!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 08:15:38 PM
Geez Mark, if I had a job, I'd offer to buy some divisions from you...

Nice sentiment Carlo, I appreciate the thought!  Now, if both of us would just kick this drug addiction called SRGC Forum, maybe we'd actually find jobs.   ;D :-\
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 05, 2010, 08:20:19 PM
Now THERE'S a plant I want to get my hands on. Roscoea 'Red Gurkha' has been at or near (changes sooooo often) the top of my lust list ever since I saw my first photograph of it!

What a red tomata!
http://www.desirableplants.com/page21.html
http://www.desirableplants.com/Roscoea%20purpurea%20'Red%20Gurkha'.jpg

I have a love/hate relationship with Roscoea, love the flowers, hate the plant growth after flowering... I can elaborate, is there a Roscoea forum I can suck a few more hours out of my life ;-)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Carlo on January 05, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
...I'm thinking maybe one or two of each (Desirable Plants indeed...).
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 08:49:50 PM
The first is a pretty awful picture when it was still in a pot.
It is a wonderful plant.


Holy Toledo!  It's smashing.

johnw

John did you notice the podophyllum seed pods dangling in the background on the second picture?

Hey Tony, is that your P. versipelle?  Missed it completely.  A lot of prayers being said here for the planted Podophyllum seeds, keeping them "evenly moist" religiously.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 08:54:29 PM
Here is what I have as Epimedium latisepalum. The first is a pretty awful picture when it was still in a pot.

Wouldn't it look great planted under one of the bigleaf, upright rhododendron species.  Also might hide the knobby knees.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 05, 2010, 09:00:26 PM
Mark, my E. davidii hasn't done a lot as it was in its original pot for a long time and was only planted out recently. However, it has flowered well in the pot and is growing on nicely now. It is though, very susceptible to drought at the roots. I suppose most of them are. It will be happier in the ground.

Some very desirable plants on that list Giles, especially the epimediums.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 05, 2010, 09:04:46 PM
Geez Mark, if I had a job, I'd offer to buy some divisions from you...

Nice sentiment Carlo, I appreciate the thought!  Now, if both of us would just kick this drug addiction called SRGC Forum, maybe we'd actually find jobs.   ;D :-\

Why don't you join forces? Maybe start a little nursery or something? ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 05, 2010, 09:07:20 PM
A chap I used to be at college with sells alot of Epimediums  http://www.desirableplants.com/  (ruthless 'plug'  :o )
Mail Order only (EU), or will bring to shows.
I bought a Roscoea 'Red Gurkha' from him for my mother, and she hasn't managed to kill it yet (which is one hell of a recommendation  ;D )

 Giles, I've added a link in the Links pages........ your Mother's experience with the plant is good enough for me!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Carlo on January 05, 2010, 09:53:16 PM
Oh right, Lesley...like we're not poor enough?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 05, 2010, 09:55:03 PM
Oh right, Lesley...like we're not poor enough?

Location, location, not forgetting mail orders. ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 11:10:03 PM
Oh right, Lesley...like we're not poor enough?

Location, location, not forgetting mail orders. ;D

Helen  -  Mail orders to Canada?  They said they were poor which leads me to think they might not be terribly interested in being bankrupt too!  ;D

I hear our low pressure system has backed the cold up and all the way down to South Carolina.  When the dam bursts we're in for a nasty coldsnap.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 05, 2010, 11:18:11 PM
I do, however, have E. davidii, pictured above.


A really choice species.  Lesley, does it grow and flower well for you?  How spreading is it? I have one form that has grown into my Iris henryi patch, and must be brave one day to dig it all up and extricate the epimedium, use it as a propagation opportunity... I did plant them too close together.  Some E. davidii spread more than others.

Garden Vision Epimendiums listed 5 selections in their 2009 catalog:
E. davidii "Robust Forms" - flowering 18-24" (45-60 cm), rhizomes to 4-8"
E. davidii "Wolong Dwarfs" - flowering 6-10" (15-25 cm), growth rate not indicated
E. davidii "Wolong Selections" - 18-24" stems, growth rate not indicated
E. davidii 'EMR4125' - original Martyn Rix collection
E. davidii 'Emerald Sheen' - 2008 introduction (expensive), 12-24" tall, shiny foliage, clumping but occasional rhizome.

I had the first 4 forms, eventually lost the "Wolong Dwarf" selection in the first winter after planting, a rare phenomenon.  Must get the dwarf form back again.

Mark - Do you think there are tender Epimedium species? By that I mean tender for Massachusetts and perhaps Nova Scotia?  Seems odd the entire lot does well outdoors for Darrell especially 8 foot ones?  

What's their range in China?

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 05, 2010, 11:44:49 PM
Oh right, Lesley...like we're not poor enough?

Location, location, not forgetting mail orders. ;D

Helen  -  Mail orders to Canada?  They said they were poor which leads me to think they might not be terribly interested in being bankrupt too!  ;D

I hear our low pressure system has backed the cold up and all the way down to South Carolina.  When the dam bursts we're in for a nasty coldsnap.

johnw

John, I wasn't thinking of the mail order for me, too rich for my blood  :(
Re the weather, have been wondering why our temps have been so mild lately, pity there's been no sun.
Hopefully January will be almost over before it gets here  ;) ( chance would be a fine thing)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2010, 05:10:44 AM
Tony, I'm curious as to where your E. latisepalum came from. I've never seen the true thing and pics are scarce on the web. Your plant looks like an upright form of what I received from Chen-yi as latisepalum but is probably E. wushanense. Stern describes E. latisepalum as being few flowered, on unbranched flower spikes , occasionally having side shoots with 2 flowers, typically 8 or so flowers on the spike. I'd like to see the ones Darrell sells.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2010, 05:20:18 AM
A few more pics. Epimedium x warleyense,  Epimedium pubescens, Epimedium saggitatum,  Epimedium grandiflorum v. higoense, Epimedium dolichostemon,  Epimedium grandiflorum Rose Queen, Epimedium zushanense .
One is off topic but I like this picture and wanted to post it. Has anyone else tried Thalictrum diffusiflorum. Philip
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2010, 05:22:29 AM
Fini. Too many of Epimedium brachyrhizum
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Paul T on January 06, 2010, 07:49:06 AM
Great pics, Phillip.  The majority are species I've not seen before, although I grow Rose Queen and x warleyense.  I doubt many of them would even be in Australia. ::)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 06, 2010, 12:18:22 PM
A few more pics. Epimedium x warleyense,  Epimedium pubescens, Epimedium saggitatum,  Epimedium grandiflorum v. higoense, Epimedium dolichostemon,  Epimedium grandiflorum Rose Queen, Epimedium zushanense .
One is off topic but I like this picture and wanted to post it. Has anyone else tried Thalictrum diffusiflorum. Philip

Really nice pics!  On Thalictrum diffusiflorum, how tall does it grow?  The flowers look rather large as thalictrums go.  Is it from China?

I'm jealous seeing E. zushanense, stunning purple flowers.  Darrell had it listed in their 2009 catalog, but at $65 I decided to pass on it, give it a couple years until the price comes down.

I also don't have E. saggitatum, but wondered why, as it has been in Darrell's list in the past.  Just checked an older catalog, and there's a poor picture of it that makes it look ugly, probably why I passed on it and opted for other selections.  But I see from your photo it's a rather nice species, flowers like brevicornu but with nice spine-edged leaves.  I'm putting it on my want list.

Interesting catch on the possible E. latisepalum identification.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 06, 2010, 01:02:22 PM
I am really enjoying this thread, thanks everyone for the pics.
It is great to see the different colours in the leaves  as well as the flowers.
Would most of these be hardy in zone 4?

Phillip, how hardy is the Thalictrum diffusiflorum?
It's beautiful.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Katrin Lugerbauer on January 06, 2010, 02:42:44 PM
Thank you very much for your great photos, I really enjoy them! There are some Epimediums I've never read or heard of, thanks for showing.

Does anyone grow E. 'Emperor'? I got it this summer at Beeches and it's a tall plant with very big leaves but I haven't seen a photo of the flowers as yet.

Last spring a friend brought me 'Amber Queen', it's a wonderful plant and I hope it will grow well.
The second pic shows E. chlorandrum.

Best wishes, Katrin
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: PDJ on January 06, 2010, 03:18:36 PM
Hope this is of help I have had many epimediums and other plants from Long Acre Plants http://www.longacreplants.co.uk/
 and all have been excellent.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lori S. on January 06, 2010, 03:50:15 PM
Would most of these be hardy in zone 4?
Phillip, how hardy is the Thalictrum diffusiflorum?

Helen, I haven't managed yet to find an epimedium or thalictrum species that is not hardy here in zone 3, so I'd say that all are certainly worth a try.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on January 06, 2010, 03:52:48 PM
Tony, I'm curious as to where your E. latisepalum came from. I've never seen the true thing and pics are scarce on the web. Your plant looks like an upright form of what I received from Chen-yi as latisepalum but is probably E. wushanense. Stern describes E. latisepalum as being few flowered, on unbranched flower spikes , occasionally having side shoots with 2 flowers, typically 8 or so flowers on the spike. I'd like to see the ones Darrell sells.

Philip mine came from Chen yi,I bought a selection some years ago. I find Stearn very confusing with minor differences between species and as is probably clear from other threads I am not in agreement with the splitting of vaguely different plants into numerous species.

I also have grown Thalictrum diffusiflorum for a number of years, a beautiful plant. Where it is at the moment I cannot say other than under snow somewhere.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 06, 2010, 03:59:29 PM
PDJ, I was just ordering eppies and other loving shade from Long Acre Plants and I am happy learning from you it's a good nursery  ;) Maggipie I shall have (perhaps  ::) new eppies seeds next year  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 06, 2010, 04:02:57 PM
Would most of these be hardy in zone 4?
Phillip, how hardy is the Thalictrum diffusiflorum?

Helen, I haven't managed yet to find an epimedium or thalictrum species that is not hardy here in zone 3, so I'd say that all are certainly worth a try.

Thanks Lori, I was hoping you might be around. :)

Nicole, I wish you the best of luck with your new eppies :)

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 06, 2010, 06:21:30 PM
Philip, never worry here about Off Topic. We're all very good at that. ;D

I too, was going to ask about the height of Thalictrum diffusiflorum because in your pictures it looks very like one I had many years ago from the late, great Roy Elliott, just as Thalictrum species. It grew to about 30 or 35 cms and had similar very large flowers. I believe Dave Toole in NZ has it again after many years of its being lost to us. He gave me a small seedling but an animal knocked the whole plant off at pot level and nothing grew away again. There was some thought that it may have been T. orientale.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2010, 07:55:56 PM
Tony, John and I have also discussed Sterns book. When we read between the lines we think he may have been working with very limited material for his descriptions. And the Chinese are notorious splitters. So I would agree with you that some of the descriptions and the delineation of some of the species has a lot to be desired. With only one or two clones of many of the new species in cultivation it's sometimes no more than guesswork as to where one species ends and another begins. For what it's worth there's an interactive key to the Chinese species in The Flora of China. Philip
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2010, 08:18:07 PM
Lesley, I received the Thalictrum from Margaret Charlton, I think it came to her via Heronswood. I was under the impression that Dan and the Whynn-Jones had done the initial introduction but as the Whynn -Jones don't mention this in their catalog I may be wrong. It's supposed to have the largest flowers in the genus and as it comes from Tibet it has a good chance of being reasonably hardy. About 4 feet tall, a bit lax.  Don't know why it's not in the trade yet, it's stunning and should be easy.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 06, 2010, 08:27:19 PM
Tony, John and I have also discussed Sterns book. When we read between the lines we think he may have been working with very limited material for his descriptions. And the Chinese are notorious splitters. So I would agree with you that some of the descriptions and the delineation of some of the species has a lot to be desired. With only one or two clones of many of the new species in cultivation it's sometimes no more than guesswork as to where one species ends and another begins. For what it's worth there's an interactive key to the Chinese species in The Flora of China. Philip

Philip  - I think we were discussing the Podophyllum section in Stern.  You know how much I know about Epimedium!  Must say my enthusiasm for them is growing by leaps and bounds thanks to this thread.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 06, 2010, 08:55:22 PM
So much too tall to have been the one I had and I hope Dave still has. I've seed seed of diffusiflorum somewhere, I'm sure. Will have to keep an eye out.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on January 06, 2010, 09:12:47 PM
Tony, John and I have also discussed Sterns book. When we read between the lines we think he may have been working with very limited material for his descriptions. And the Chinese are notorious splitters. So I would agree with you that some of the descriptions and the delineation of some of the species has a lot to be desired. With only one or two clones of many of the new species in cultivation it's sometimes no more than guesswork as to where one species ends and another begins. For what it's worth there's an interactive key to the Chinese species in The Flora of China. Philip

Philip  - I think we were discussing the Podophyllum section in Stern.  You know how much I know about Epimedium!  Must say my enthusiasm for them is growing by leaps and bounds thanks to this thread.

johnw

John and I have also discussed the podophyllum sectioon. I must say however many species there are or not they seem to be without exception wonderful plants for the woodland. My woodland is about four square yards.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 07, 2010, 08:33:40 PM
Epimedium Hybrid - Posting 1a

Hello Epimedium lovers, I thought I would put together a couple posts to illustrate a hybrid that occured between Epimedium brevicornu and E. membranaceum.  This part of my post will primarily show E. brevicornu, one of the very best eppies in my opinion.  What I like about this species, is the perky upright growth, with sprays of small white and yellow flowers clearly displayed above the foliage.  It also blooms for an exceptionally long time, being among the first to bloom, but also one of the last.  It is a clumper, so no spreading habit to worry about.  And it has lovely red-mottled foliage in spring.

I start with a photo in 2007 showing the upright profile, followed by a series of views taken in 2008 & 2009 as it pushed into bloom.  The next to last photo is an overhead shot, showing Saruma henryi in bloom, just getting a glimpse of E. brevicornu to the right of a boulder, and in the lower right, the foliage and emerging buds of E. membranaceum.

E. membranaceum is on my personal top 10 list; it starts flowering late, has enormous spidery bright yellow flowers with white-pink-spotted sepals.  A low grower (and another clumper), the species is remarkable because it is an ever-bloomer, with low ascending branched stems and sprays of golden spiders, blooms all summer long and into the fall.  As such, it is an excellent candidate for hybridization.  While E. brevicornu started blooming long before E. membranaceum, there is a brief overlap of bloom time; a photo depicts this overlap.  Notice the hirsute stems and seed pods on E. brevicornu in the last photo.

I will follow up later with Posting 1b, with photos of E. membranaceum and the resulting hybrid that flowered for the first time in 2009.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: galahad on January 07, 2010, 09:05:53 PM
I love it :P
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 07, 2010, 09:19:13 PM
A gorgeous thing Mark, especially with those blotched leaves which add to the overall effect. By the way what is that rather hairy, spiky thing in the last picture, looking slightly like deer antlers in velvet?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 07, 2010, 09:39:01 PM
A gorgeous thing Mark, especially with those blotched leaves which add to the overall effect. By the way what is that rather hairy, spiky thing in the last picture, looking slightly like deer antlers in velvet?

Oh, sorry about that, I didn't make it clear.  You're seeing two flowers of E. membranaceum (in focus), a couple much smaller flowers of E. brevicornu (out of focus), the "deer antler" is the multibranching inflorescence on E. brevicornu.  Bear this in mind when I show the hybrid seedlings, as the fuzziness on the inflorescence branches can show up in the hybrids.  Notice at the ends of the fuzzy stems there are glabrous seed pods forming.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 07, 2010, 10:39:10 PM
Oh. Thanks.

Oh yes, now I see the seeds. I hadn't noticed them before.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Paul T on January 08, 2010, 12:29:12 AM
Beautiful, Mark.  brevicornu is another I've not come across here.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 08, 2010, 01:30:15 AM
Epimedium Hybrid - Posting 1b

Installment 2 of a 3-part message:

Here are some views of E. membranaceum.  See my previous post where I talk about the attributes of this ever-blooming species.

In the first view there is Saruma henryi again (yellow flowers) on the left, Trillium catesbaei, Epimedium membranaceum at centerstage, and just behind it is E. brevicornu mostly finished but still some small white flowers coming and those fuzzy flower stems.  A worm's-eye view of Trillium catesbaei and E. membranaceum in the second photo.  Photo 3 shows a typical inflorescence of E. membranaceum (notice one inflorescence of E. brevicornu in the upper right), and the 4th photo is a detail view showing the sepals... white, lightly spotted with red or pink dots.  In the 5th photo, nothing very different about this photo, but take a look at the date in the photo title, this eppie is still blooming on October 26th!

In the final installment, I will show photos of one selected hybrid, and compare the hybrid's flowers photographically with E. brevicornu.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on January 08, 2010, 01:39:45 AM
 Nice combination there Mark,

The Saruma henryi I also do grow and Trillium catesbaei really nice and hard to come by, Epimedium membranaceum now thats nice with the relex petals, very delicate and spider like.

Nice to see you woodland plantins/scene 

cheers
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 08, 2010, 02:38:23 AM
Epimedium Hybrid - Posting 1c

Installment 3 of a 3-part message:

In the following series of photos, I'm holding a couple individual flowers of my E. brevicornu x membranaceum hybrid in each photo up against an inflorescence of E. brevicornu, for comparison.  As you'll see, the hybrid has larger flowers overall, the yellow cup is about 5x as big, the yellow spurs are vestigial in E. brevicornu but long and prominent in the hybrid.  In the hybrid, the general shape of the flower and other characteristics, more closely resemble E. brevicornu, thus my belief this cross represents E. brevicornu x membranaceum, not the other way around.

In the 5th photo, we see flowers of both the hybrid and E. brevicornu from the back, to reveal the sepals.  Notice the hybrid has picked up the red spotting from E. membranaceum (two flowers on the left are the hybrid).  Also to note, the hybrid has hirsute flower stems, but not quite as fuzzy as E. brevicornu.  In photo 6, again we see the back of the flowers and the spotted sepals, but we also see some of the foliage which is rounded, minutely spinulose, red-spotted when emerging, thus mimicking E. brevicornu.

In photos 7 & 8, we see views of the young inflorescence of this hybrid in May 2009.  Proving to me that E. membranaceum is involved, is that the flower stems are semi-indeterminate and keep spouting new flowers way past normal Epimedium flowering season; this young seedling flowered non-stop from May to August. The everblooming tendencies of E. membranaceum can be passed along to offspring!!! WooHOO!

I had a few other seedlings of the same cross, not nearly as good.  Many more seedlings are cropping up, but will be a year or more before I see what they look like.  What fun! I hope this detailed summary of Epimedium hybridization (even if the bees did it in this case) sparks the imagination of what is possible in this fantastic genus, now that the gene pool has been so enriched by numerous new species and hybrids becoming available.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on January 08, 2010, 03:16:32 AM
Care to comment on the merits of these here:

Epimedium x perralchicum (dp yellow) (M. Charlton)

That could very well be the clone that Ed Lohbrunner used to sell. (He shut down his nursery, Lakeside Gardens, about 1984.) I've got a rather large patch of E. × perralchicum from Lohbrunner, had it for a very long time, and can attest that it's seemingly as tough as nails.

Not all epimediums are that tough, however. In the dry-summer climate here, the Asiatic epimediums (epimedia?) are quite unhappy, and with my policy of watering very little, if at all, during the summer, they don't last.

Of the epimedia I've had and lost to drought, two I especially miss. One is E. sempervirens, which I grew from seed sent from Japan by Don Elick. The seeds were iirc packed in damp peat, sown on arrival, and germinated with reasonable freedom. He sent me seed of the form illustrated in his wonderful book, Japonica Magnifica.

The other long-lost epimedium is E. diphyllum. It's rarely offered, and from what i've seen, virtually all plants now offered under that name are E. youngianum. A delightful miniature.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on January 08, 2010, 03:27:46 AM
Care to comment on the merits of these here:

Epimedium pubigerum (Thimble)

Another good doer in this summer-dry garden. Flowers are distinct from all other epimedia I've seen. I like it, but saying that may be the kiss of horticultural death, reputation-wise if not in fact.

A cultural tip for would-be epimedium growers: cut the foliage down to the ground in late winter. Otherwise the flower stems may be obscured by the old foliage.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 08, 2010, 04:43:14 AM
Epimedium pubigerum

Another good doer in this summer-dry garden. Flowers are distinct from all other epimedia I've seen. I like it, but saying that may be the kiss of horticultural death, reputation-wise if not in fact.

E. pubigerum is an excellent species, and quite distinct as Rodger suggests.  What I like about it is the foliage is completely evergreen here in New England (USDA Zone 5), which says a lot in this tough climate.  And the small white flowers (pinkish in some forms) held aloft above the foliage, have a definite charm.  A quick search on photos for this species in my library yields some less-than-satisfactory shots, but you'll get the general impression.

In the first photo, on the left is E. pubigerum with modest displays of white flowers.  Looking closely, some of the previous year's evergreen foliage is still present in the lower right (I'm not always as timely as I should be in cutting out the previous year's growth).  In the upper left is Epimedium grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille', the original plant bought in 1973 or 1974!

In the second photo, we see the "epimediumesque" second flush of foliage, which lends a second season to Epimedium viewing, where the newer foliage takes on dramatically different leaf coloration than the maturing spring foliage.  This is basically a June phenomenon in my area.

The third photo shows a classic situation, with the previous year's evergreen growth at the base (darker green) yet still in good condition after a harsh winter, a fresh flush of lively light green slightly red-flushed new season's growth, and the lovely modest sprays of white flowers.  There are winters here and there (the relatively snowless types) where the evergreen leaves suffer badly, but in most years they survive just fine.

The forth and final photo shows the same plant back in 2006, where I did indeed cut off the old foliage in late winter/early spring, so no dark green old foliage is present.  I actually think it looks best when there is contrast between the new foliage and older foliage.

In summary, this is a rock-solid species, slowly spreading, extremely hardy, quietly beautiful, and recommended.  It is also quite drought resistant, as I find most eppies are.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on January 08, 2010, 10:32:21 AM
Mark...Nice cross of E. brevicornu x membranaceum, yes you can see the yellow cup is now more prominate.

Worth regersting the cross and naming?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 08, 2010, 04:17:45 PM
Mark...Nice cross of E. brevicornu x membranaceum, yes you can see the yellow cup is now more prominate.
Worth regersting the cross and naming?

Good question.  When I see decades worth of inventory in Darrell Probst hybridization program, so many gems and utterly fantastic hybrids yet to be released, this gives considerable perspective (and restraint) when merely finding a self-sown hybrid in the garden. 

That said, I'm still interested in my hybrid find, so I need to separate it from the crowded bed where a bunch of self-sown seedlings are planted, and see how the plant bulks up and performs over the next few years.  But the one characteristic that is uniquely important here, is getting hybrids that are "everblooming" like E. membranaceum, or at least have a greatly extended season of bloom, such as my selected brevicornu x membranaceum seedling.

So, if it is worthy of a name after some trials, then maybe it'll get named.  I just want to tread lightly, as lots of people out there are naming any sort of seedling as something new when they aren't very different than what already exists. 

Here are a 3 more seedling views taken spring 2009.  The first is a nice white with yellow center, I shall be watching this one too.  The last two photos show very nice epimediums, but they're not much different or special.  No matter, I plan an entire enbankment of growing unnamed eppie seedlings, it'll be beautiful regardless whether they're named cultivars or anonymous seedlings... it's all part of the fun.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on January 09, 2010, 12:22:32 AM
Mark what your doing is something that only the large nurserys do and end up regersting and releasing with lots of time and money envolved.

Dont doubt your work and when you create your bed of hybrids do lable the suspect cross. You never know if and when a hybrid is passed around it comes with history, provenance details even if it isnt registered

Mark is there somewhere on the net where you can see some regesterd crosses or attempts with epimediums that have occured or the work of Darrell Probst ?

cheers
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 09, 2010, 01:05:33 AM
Dont doubt your work and when you create your bed of hybrids do lable the suspect cross. You never know if and when a hybrid is passed around it comes with history, provenance details even if it isnt registered

Mark is there somewhere on the net where you can see some regesterd crosses or attempts with epimediums that have occured or the work of Darrell Probst ?

cheers

Let me assure you I see the value in several selected hybrids already (like the one shown) and the tremendous potential in hydridizing with species like brevicornu, and it particular E. membranaceum for its ever-blooming characteristic.  I shall be "playing" with them in a serious way.  However, the point that I was trying to convey, is that I must bear in mind what hybrids and cultivars are already out there, so that if anything is indeed introduced, it is truly something special, not just another "look-alike" hybrid as is so often the case.

I don't know of anyplace where Darrell's work is documented on the internet so to speak, it doesn't really exist that I know of, except for what appears in the Garden Vision Epimediums nursery catalog.  Darrell has a basic (and static) web page that a friend created for him a number of years ago... it is a basic primer on the genus Epimendium with the basic species groups. The only way to see the fantastic extent of his Epimedium hybridization is to visit him at the nursery.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 09, 2010, 03:01:20 AM
Mark - I have to admire your restraint.  So many would simply name the plant and market like mad.  You have the great advantage of being close to a major collection of Epimedium so you can compare your plant with the species and hybrids out there or ones in the pipeline.

I'm hopeful that Darrell with all of his experience would gladly give you very valuable feedback on your results.    

What really irks me are those "experts" would won't share information / plants / pollen or who go out of their way to stimy the work of others.  They are not interested in advancement of the plants or camaraderie, only in themselves. It's a pitiful and sad commentary on some "plantsmen".   I felt I had to say this as I just learned of just such an incident, not involving me but a hybridizer with a novel approach to a popular genus and whose efforts are being deliberately thwarted.  It has really got my dander up.

johnw  
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on January 09, 2010, 05:06:35 PM
Epimedium pubigerum does well here in Yorkshire in a very poor situation of dry shade. I've not had much success with the newer introductions or the grandiflorum types. Perhaps the humidity is too low? It is quite windy here, and the shady parts tend also to be dry. Can you recommend any of the newer species as being of a tougher constitution?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 09, 2010, 07:37:20 PM
Epimedium pubigerum does well here in Yorkshire in a very poor situation of dry shade. I've not had much success with the newer introductions or the grandiflorum types. Perhaps the humidity is too low? It is quite windy here, and the shady parts tend also to be dry. Can you recommend any of the newer species as being of a tougher constitution?

You might want to try E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum and E. x perralchicum (the former species is one of the parents), particularly the variety 'Frohnleiten' on the latter species, for the brightly colored and veined spring leaves, all of these I find drought tolerant.  Both are evergreen too. Another that seems extra drought tolerant is E. grandiflorum f. flavescens.  There are numerous forms of this, but the cultivar 'La Rocaille' has been in my garden over 20 years here, and it never gets any supplemental watering... and its growing under the the edge of a Hemlock row, competing with aggresive and thirsty hemlock roots.

Once established, I find most epimediums are rather drought tolerant, one reason I like this genus so much; delicate looking plants but with tough-as-nails constitution.  I don't water (or rarely so) any of the garden area with epimedium, and they have all faired well for many years, with one exception... in summers of certified drought, some of the E. grandiflorum, diphyllum, and youngianum selections had the foliage completely toasted and crisped.  After some thorough watering, the plants were resuscitated and didn't lose any.  I also never divide or plant Epimediums late in summer of fall, as they often die without sufficient roots reestablished before winter.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 09, 2010, 09:39:40 PM
Regardless of the usefulness of naming crosses (unless exceptional and worth marketing) I'm wondering would any such named Epimedium need to be registered. As I understand it, only plants which have a recognised registering body (daffodils, rhodos, roses, irises et al) have to register the names of new cultivars/hybrids for them to be accepted as such. In the case of, say, campanulas, forsythias and many hundreds of others, including, I would imagine Epimedium, it is sufficient to name the plant and to PUBLISH THE NAME, with all relevant information and identifying illustrations, in a reputable horticultural publication. For Epimedium that would most likely be perhaps "The Garden" of the RHS, the journal of the Hardy Plant Society or the AGS Bulletin, the SRGC Journal. So little, if any cost involved.

If the new name is not published, anyone else can use the same name for a different plant of the same genus or give a different name to the same plant.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on January 09, 2010, 11:03:45 PM
Thank you , Mark, I already grow the first two, but will watch out for the other one. Never had any seedlings from any of my varieties, by the way.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on January 10, 2010, 01:50:52 AM
...it is sufficient to name the plant and to PUBLISH THE NAME, with all relevant information and identifyiong illustrations, in a reputable horticultural publication. For Epimedium that would most likely be perhaps "The Garden" of the RHS, the journal of the Hardy Plant Society or the AGS Bulletin, the SRGC Journal. So little, if any cost involved.

Unless they've changed the rules while I wasn't looking, even publication in a nursery catalog will suffice as long as it's dated. I'm pretty sure there also has to be some kind of description, but I think even a photograph will suffice.

Even easier for someone running a nursery!

I don't know how the movement to online catalogs affects this.

PS: Incidentally, this is a good reason for nurserymen to routinely send copies of their catalog to the major horticultural libraries. In the UK, that would be the Lindley Library at the RHS; I don't know what institution(s) would be appropriate in the US or other countries. The difficulty lurking behind the curtain is that such catalogs are true ephemera and unless a nurseryman takes the initiative, it would be very easy for his catalog(s) not to be archived anywhere in the world.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Paul T on January 10, 2010, 02:19:12 AM
E. pinnatum ssp colchicum is not only quite drought hardy it is EXTREMELY sun hardy.  My main clump of it is out in full sun....Yes, you read that right... FULL sun in my garden.  I had to rip 75% of the clump out this year as it was about 1.2m wide and still going.  I cut the leaves down each winter as the buds just start to emerge, get lots of flowers and lovely new foliage.  You sometimes get some sun damage on the leaves in the 40oC times, but otherwise it thrives.  There is watering to that area of course (not much survives here without some watering unless they are very drought hardy) but not as much as many areas of the garden.  I think it would take a lot more drought than it is getting as well.

Just thought I'd mention the extreme sun hardiness, as I don't think it is something traditionally associated with Epimedium.  ???

I wish I would get some seedlings from my Epis, but I've not been aware of them ever setting seed. :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 10, 2010, 04:35:06 AM
When I was doing a twice yearly catalogue, the Dunedin Public Library asked me to send them a copy of each issue. I later found they had been archived in the Hocken Library, also in Dunedin, one of the country's two main archival libraries, along with the Alexander Turnbull Library, both very August institutions. For two minutes I had the illusion (delusion) that I was quite important. ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Paul T on January 10, 2010, 07:29:35 AM
Well rest assured you're important to us, Lesley. 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 10, 2010, 03:05:01 PM
Interesting discussion on the naming/registering of plant names.  For those plant genera that do not have any sort of official registry of names, I've heard the same thing, just get the name into print. So I too wonder if online printing of a name now qualifies, as the world moves to electronic conveyance of news and media.

I once got burned on the naming of a plant.  Back in the 1980s I was working with shrubby Penstemon species and cultivars.  There is an official registry of Penstemon cultivar names, although it was in a state of such disuse, that many dozens, perhaps hundreds of hybrids had become well established in horticultural circles without the use of the registry.  I had named one of my seedlings 'Sour Grapes', a robust shrubby "dasanthera" penstemon with two-toned purple-lavender flowers.  Unbeknownst to me, on the other side of the pond, someone named one of those tall and tender herbaceous Penstemon hybrids with the same name; 'Sour Grapes' (still a popular item in the UK I believe).  Rather than be sour grapes about the situation, I changed the name of my hybrid to be 'Grape Tart', and that was the name used by Siskiyou Rare Plant Nursery when they sold my hybrid.

Darrell Probst has spent many years correcting the nomenclature muddle on Epimedium cultivars, as such it is fortunately well represented in his catalog, however with various growers/hybridizers around the world, the chance of cultivar name duplication and confusion still exists.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 10, 2010, 03:57:35 PM
E. pinnatum ssp colchicum is not only quite drought hardy it is EXTREMELY sun hardy.  My main clump of it is out in full sun....Yes, you read that right... FULL sun in my garden.  I had to rip 75% of the clump out this year as it was about 1.2m wide and still going.  I cut the leaves down each winter as the buds just start to emerge, get lots of flowers and lovely new foliage.  You sometimes get some sun damage on the leaves in the 40oC times, but otherwise it thrives.  There is watering to that area of course (not much survives here without some watering unless they are very drought hardy) but not as much as many areas of the garden.  I think it would take a lot more drought than it is getting as well.

Just thought I'd mention the extreme sun hardiness, as I don't think it is something traditionally associated with Epimedium.  ???

Paul, you brought up a topic I was planning on highlighting, and you're absolutely correct, no one thinks of Epimediums as suitable for sunny locations, but they can be superb in the sun as well.  Perhaps part of the issue, there are much fewer number of plants willing to grow in dry shade where Epimedium excels, who needs yet another plant willing to grow in the sun.  I want to explore this more in the next few years because some species and cultivars have richly colored foliage that would otherwise just show up as green when grown in shade.  I've never had seedlings appear in the drier sunny locations, only in more moist sahded locales.

My favorite example is with E. x warleyense, which not only excels unfazed in a full sun position, it grows happily in full sun (although spreading somewhat aggressively), and shows a long season on a rich red to orangish leaf coloring and venation lasting well into the summer.  When this eppie is grown in shade, apart from the short season of orange flowers, the foliage is green and unremarkable.

Here are some photos:
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 10, 2010, 05:57:40 PM
Regarding naming hybrids, I hope not to do this:
http://www.plantsnouveau.com/2009/05/18/epimedium-purple-pixie/
(scroll down to the overall plant view)

...that is, introduce a plant as something special and unique, when in fact it looks like many other grandiflorums that already exist.  To my eyes, this 'Purple Pixie' doesn't look very different than the type form of E. grandiflorum (first photo I uploaded) or "var. violaceum" (second photo) which has showy brownish-reddish-purple spring foliage.  I'm sure 'Purple Pixie' is a nice enough plant (almost all eppies are), but how many more very similar cultivars do we need, when there is potential for so much more.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on January 10, 2010, 08:59:31 PM
E. pinnatum ssp colchicum is also good (and rampant) in full sun here, I need to chop it back every year to curb its expansion. 'Orangekonigin' (presumably a x warleyense?) is just as good, but not so fast spreading.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 10, 2010, 10:04:50 PM
Your penstemon naming experience interets me Mark because there has been a penstemon available in NZ for a number of years, as 'Sour Grapes' but about 10 or more years ago, an English visitor to my place said it should be called 'Midnight' and was registered as such. I wasn't able to argue one way or the other. It is a deep, bluish purple, slightly greenish towards the base of the flowers.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 10, 2010, 10:36:32 PM
Your penstemon naming experience interets me Mark because there has been a penstemon available in NZ for a number of years, as 'Sour Grapes' but about 10 or more years ago, an English visitor to my place said it should be called 'Midnight' and was registered as such. I wasn't able to argue one way or the other. It is a deep, bluish purple, slightly greenish towards the base of the flowers.

Interesting.  Just did a google search on Penstemon 'Sour Grapes' and it certainly seems mixed up out there, but then again it has been +-30 years since it was named.  I include some links.  This is one of many so-called "English Penstemons", largely grown and hybridized in the UK, from Mexican penstemon species, possible with P. campanulatus in the blood line.  Most all of these are tender here in USDA Zone 5 and I gave up trying to grow them decades ago.  Here's a few links with flower color that looks closest to what I remember this one being described as... mind you, I never saw the English 'Sour Grapes' in person. In the google search I saw as many as 6 different species attributed to 'Sour Grapes', haha. 

Regarding NZ, I have no idea :(

http://www.crocus.co.uk/plants/_/penstemon-sour-grapes/classid.3385/?affiliate=gardenersworld

http://www.bobna.com/plantlist/pnstemonsourgrapes.asp

http://www.findmeplants.co.uk/plant-penstemon--2173.aspx

http://www.paghat.com/penstemon.html
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on January 10, 2010, 11:02:46 PM
In regards to Purple Pixie inst that allways the way. I wonder if they had just marketed the variety violaceum and just given it a catchy cultivar name. But isnt it allways the way, there is allways a better cultivar/hybrid out there in the pipeline especially with something new like epimedium breeding. Like Heucheras for example there are so many releases and they are starting to look all the same especially all thoses purple leafed cv's.

In regards to register, I mentioned this as to have cultivars/hybrids/forms etc reconised be it journals, catalogues but I thought there might have been a registra.

If a cultivar is exceptional and is marketed with plant breeders rights, I guess it would be more reconised as there is more plants in the pipe line and it would make it in Hoticultural journals.  

Be great to see Epimediums enter ther RHS plant trails, see them all growing in one location side by side and giving awards of garden merits. Use to see great articles in The Garden where they featured such trails, havnt seen any for a while. I hear its something hard to have a collection put together as plants come from enthusiats,horticultuists,collectors,breeders,nurserymen etc from around the country.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 10, 2010, 11:35:21 PM
When a plant is submitted to any RHS committee for an award, as, say, to a Joint Rock Plant committee meeting at an SRGC or AGS show, it is a condition of an award being made that the exhibitor consents to material being taken for a herbarium specimen and, I think, that plant material will be submitted for trial if requested.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 11, 2010, 12:19:47 AM
Be great to see Epimediums... (snip)...see them all growing in one location side by side...

There is such a place, it is Darrell Probst's and Karen Perkin's Garden Vision Epimediums nursery in Hubbardston, Massachusetts, USA.

I uploaded some photos taken there in 2002 & 2003.  I used a borrowed low-end digital camera back then, so did not get many good shots, but you'll get the idea.  I visit the nursery every May for "open nursery days" held on two consecutive weekends.  The first thing that strikes the visitor, is that epimediums are grown on long linear mounds of soil up to a meter tall, with steep slopes, the eppies seem to love it.  There is also lots of direct sunlight too.  The last few years I haven't taken photos, just visited in awe as usual.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on January 11, 2010, 10:45:38 AM
 :o What a wonderful sight/site!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: cohan on January 11, 2010, 06:52:57 PM
McMark-do you know if they are planted on the berms for a particular cultural reason? or is that just the way these growers like to display them?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 11, 2010, 08:51:49 PM
McMark-do you know if they are planted on the berms for a particular cultural reason? or is that just the way these growers like to display them?

There are possibly a number of reasons why Darrell grows his plants on fairly steep slopes. 
1.  I uploaded a diagram that illustrates growing space can be increased up to 50% or more by using steep berm plantings.
    (imperial dimensions shown in my diagram are approximate only, for illustrative purposes)
2.  Easier access to the increased growing space.
3.  Increased soil and air drainage.
4.  Good way to optimize "crappy" rocky clay soil, by mounding it as steep as one can, digging the paths gives fill for the mounds.
    (Darrell does not amend the soil, he grows in the lousy soil as is).
5.  The two sides of the berm can supply microclimates, e.g. more sun on one side than the other.  Also creates wind baffle effect.
6.  Taking a hint from nature, where he's seen eppies growing wild, often on very steep mountain slopes.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on January 11, 2010, 11:02:04 PM
The question of sun and shade is relative. The ones that have originated in the west such as from N Africa and Turkey are rampant here in sun which is not particularly strong for example that experienced by Paul and also grow in shade. The asian ones are better in light shade and moist ground and I have not yet had a rampant one.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on January 12, 2010, 11:07:23 AM
Mark,
Your pictures are beautiful, your plants are gorgeous! I look and look again at the graceful flowers and ornamented leaves and my heart is full of admiration! (http://forum.cofe.ru/images/smilies/love.gif) Thank you very much for showing them! Wish I lived in US… I would have good source of plants.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 12, 2010, 11:49:29 PM
Mark,
Your pictures are beautiful, your plants are gorgeous! I look and look again at the graceful flowers and ornamented leaves and my heart is full of admiration! (http://forum.cofe.ru/images/smilies/love.gif) Thank you very much for showing them! Wish I lived in US… I would have good source of plants.

Thank you Olga.  That means a lot coming from you, as your photos are truly outstanding.  Since I'm fairly new to this forum, I've been lurking and catching up on some of the threads, and your images of Fabulous Fungi belong in a large format coffe-table book, and what can I say about your photos of plants in the Caucausus, Daphne species and variability, and color forms of Epimedium pinnatum ssp. colchicum, etc, amazing all of them!  :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 13, 2010, 12:47:59 AM
Epimedium timeline:  E. sempervirens 'Violet Queen'

Here are a series of photos documenting this partcular epimedium from April - December.  I draw from photos over several years, so the size of the plant may look different depending on the photo, but the goal here is to show early flowering and foliage emerging, the bountiful floral display on this selection (on a mature plant, such as the photo taken on 4-29-2009), the brilliant color of spring foliage, sprinking of bright new foliage in the start of a "second foliar flush", and ending up with the smoldering fall color that lasts well into winter.

The transition from photo 5 & 6 beautifully illustrate the transformation from a flowering plant, to s foliar plant, where the brilliantly color foliage rises above the fading flowers.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on January 13, 2010, 08:39:18 AM
and I have not yet had a rampant one.
Then get yourself E pauciflorum ;D
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 13, 2010, 10:08:25 AM
Young foliage very interesting ! thanks Mark  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on January 13, 2010, 12:18:43 PM
Wow! That is a beauty - what flower power!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 13, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
and I have not yet had a rampant one.
Then get yourself E pauciflorum ;D
Göte
Other rampant ones:  rhizomatosum, koreanum, alpinum... only grow in wild areas where they can spread if you must grow them (I have each of them).  I also recently added E. fangii in 2008, supposed to spread on 8" (20 cm) stolons, so I'm prepared to move it some place where it can spread, but so far it hasn't done much... beautiful small evergreen leaves and shy (so far) with the yellow flowers that resemble E. davidii.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 13, 2010, 07:54:14 PM
Thanks Mark for this wonderful series of E. s. 'Violet Queen.' I really like this way of showing the plant throughout its whole growth cycle as it means so much more than just some pretty flowers at the height of its bloom time. I hope you will be able to show others in the same way.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 13, 2010, 08:31:51 PM
Thanks Mark for this wonderful series of E. s. 'Violet Queen.' I really like this way of showing the plant throughout its whole growth cycle as it means so much more than just some pretty flowers at the height of its bloom time. I hope you will be able to show others in the same way.

Thanks Lesley,

Yes, I was planning doing a similar timeline on a "threesome" of eppies that are growing side by side along a path, all of which happen to go through quite a metamorphosis of interest.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on January 14, 2010, 10:11:16 AM
Mark nice purple foliage on the grandiflora hidoense bandit hybrid seedling is that what is featured in the pic?

and nice to see the collection at Darrell Probst's and Karen Perkin's Garden Vision..interesting how they are grown on sloping ground..aesthetically showing off their foliage and flowers more..very nice!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 14, 2010, 03:55:23 PM
A few Young ones  (E. x youngianum cultivars)

All of the "youngianums" (hybrids between grandiflorum and diphyllum) are dainty little clump-forming plants.  Young spring foliage is often flushed or speckled with color, and a second leaf flush after flowering also shows some foliar interest. While generally rather small plants, the second leaf flush in June can give the clumps significantly more height and width.  Here's a sampling:

1.  E. x youngianum 'Fairy Dust' - Darrell Probst 2004 introduction. Pale but perky flowers, coffee tinged foliage.

2 & 3.  E. x youngianum 'Tamabotan' - originally from We-Du nursery, known under 3 other names.  Has the effect of double flowers because the petals and sepals are similarly sized.

4 & 5.  E. x youngianum 'Marchacos Sprite' - D.Probst 2003 introduction, good bright pink cutie.

6 & 7.  E. x youngianum 'Azusa' - a personal favorite with largish white flowers, red sepals and stems.  Fall color is rich mottled red.

8  E. x youngianum 'Hanagaruma' - floriferous light pink
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 14, 2010, 04:06:37 PM
Small beauties  ::) I can't wait for other species  :D Their pictures are seldom available  :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Heinz Meyer on January 14, 2010, 06:09:39 PM
great pictures, beautiful Epimedium
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on January 14, 2010, 09:19:29 PM
I am going to look very hard for a few more eppies this year.
You have a marvellous collection McMark.  ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 14, 2010, 09:22:51 PM
These are all really delightful. So far as I know, the only x Youngianum we have in NZ is the old 'Niveum.'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 14, 2010, 10:55:29 PM
These are all really delightful. So far as I know, the only x Youngianum we have in NZ is the old 'Niveum.'

Well, 'Niveum' is an oldie but a goodie, surely a tried and true one.  I grew this for many years in full sun, where in spite of it's small size and apparent delicacy, it survived without difficulty and always put on a good show of blooms.  It is still a favorite here.

I grow 40 youngianums, and while most are unquestionably attractive, long lived plants, a few are "collector's interest only", as they have strange and not so attractive flowers, sometimes hidden below the foliage. Cultivars in this catagory include 'Fukurasuzume' (drab whitish pinkish-tinged flowers hanging below the leaves), 'Kozakura' (small bell-shaped flowers, white tinged lavender), and 'Sudama' (small cherry flowers never open, they stay pinched closed at the end).  I would show photos, except they're so unphotogenic that I don't have any photos of these guys.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Jane on January 15, 2010, 06:53:13 PM
Fantastic pictures, roll on spring!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 16, 2010, 05:28:19 AM
Epimedium grandiflorum forma flavescens - William T. Stearn recognized E. koreanum as a separate species distinct from E. grandiflorum as recently as 2002 (e.g., a yellow-flowered entity akin to grandiflorum yet distinct), and Darrell Probst has supported and enriched our gardens with both species and numerous collected forms of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens.  The key difference is that E. koreanum is a rampant spreader, whereas all E. grandiflorum f. flavescens forms are tight clumpers.  I grow 9 selections of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens, they are roughly similar, yet each with their own distinct characteristics and charm.  I am only exploring a couple of these forms here.

One of the very first Epimediums I purchased was "Epimedium grandiflorum flavescens" from George Schenk in 1977. This plant is now identified as a cultivar; E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille', honoring the name of Harold Epstein's garden where this particular form was found.  Back then, it cost $14 in George Schenk's catalog when most of his nursery offerings were between a mere $1 - $2 American dollars. While expensive, it was a worthwhile investment because I still have the original plant, now 32 years old, and it has provided considerable pleasure in all those years.  It is what I call an "epimedium island', this curious effect among clumping epimediums where after a great number of years, a sizeable 2' (60 cm) clump never seems to spread any more... it just sits there content on being a happy large clump.

A few years ago in spring, I chopped off a piece (with great difficulty) and replanted it. The offset grew surprisingly quickly to fill the void and assume the same tight-clump proportion in only a few years.  In this series of photos, I show both the original 30+ year old clump, and a new clump.  In all forms, the elegant pale yellow flowers appear below a canopy of fresh foliage.  Perhaps not as showy as other epimediums because the pale flowers are partially hidden, this variety is elegant and refined and certainly worth a choice spot in the garden.

Photos:

1 & 2 - View of young 3-year old clump of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille'.  Notice the beautiful dark color stems.

3,4,5 - views of an old clump of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille'.  Pointed spring foliage is strongly tinged red, lasting into early summer.

6 - E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Nanum' - most "flavescens" forms grow 14" - 22" (35 - 55 cm), but this one is much shorter (6 - 8", or 15-20 cm in flower), with the flowers extending out to the periphery.

7 & 8 - views of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens #4 (Darrell Probst numbers his forms), this is a tall one, almost 2' (60 cm) with thin, wiry bright red stems, airy sprays of narrow foliage, and nice light yellow flowers.  The first photo is a flower closeup, the second shows E. x rubrum in flower, with the tall expanding red stems of "flavescens 4" in the upper right.

Plant any of these "flavescens" forms up on an embankment, to effectively show off their shy flowers and deep color stems.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 16, 2010, 08:07:16 AM
Mark, thanks for posting such a wonderful view of your woodland with Epimedium, leaves and flowers showing off in their clumps.  Planting on a slope is definitely a good view for shy flowering plants so one can appreciate the detail from below. 
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on January 16, 2010, 09:32:59 AM
Mark, could you later explain to us the differences between E. pallidum et E. x versicolor neosulphureum. I have the two ones in my garden and I don't make a distinction between them  ??? Or one species has a wrong name  ::)
Thanks for all Mark  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 16, 2010, 05:18:25 PM
Mark, could you later explain to us the differences between E. pallidum et E. x versicolor neosulphureum. I have the two ones in my garden and I don't make a distinction between them  ??? Or one species has a wrong name  ::)
Thanks for all Mark  :D

Nicole, from what I can tell, there is no such species name E. pallidum.  There does seem to be something going around as E. grandiflorum 'Pallidum', however what this dubious item is, who really knows, as it doesn't seem to be reliably described.  I found a few nursery listings for E. grandiflorum 'Pallidum', with poor little images that don't show much detail, but in at least two of such finds, the spring foliage shown in the images was heavily suffused red showing green leaf veins (looking much like E. x versicolor).  Whatever "pallidum" is, it certainly seems confused in the nursery trade, without much said about it. 

Here is a description from 2007 Lost Horizons catalog  (Ontario, Canada):  "Epimedium pallidum $10.00 - One can never have too many Epimediums in the shady garden. A new offering from Holland not listed in any reference we can find, so all we know is that it has
attractive yellow flowers that stick out from the green foliage. A long bloomer--up to six weeks."

There was a thread about E. "pallidum" back in the Epimedium 2009 SRGC pages:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3374.msg87326#msg87326

I also do not think this mysterious "pallidum" is E. x versicolor 'Neosulphureum'. On the "Epimedium 2009" SRCG page, there are some excellent photos of E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum', clearly showing the yellow flower color (deeper yellow than 'Neosulphureum'), and the spurs equal the length of the inner sepals (whereas the spurs on 'Neosulphureum' are short, only about half as long as the inner sepals).  I am uploading several photos of E. x versicolor 'Neosulphureum', one looking up at the flowers clearly showing the short spurs.  Also, 'Neosulphureum' is much lower growing, has denser growth, and burnished bronze spring foliage, altogether a better plant than 'Sulphureum'.  The latter has much more open growth, taller stems, and slightly red-tinged foliage in spring, and the aforementioned flower differences.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 16, 2010, 08:05:38 PM
Found two more old photos of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille' as the leaves and buds emerge, showing off the trademark cinnamon red stems.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 23, 2010, 05:31:42 AM
Epimedium timeline threesome - Photos 1-10E. x versicolor 'Versicolor', E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum 'Thunderbolt', E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace'.

These three species are planted side by side along a garden path.  The metamorphosis of each plant's appearance through an extended season is rather dramatic and visually captivating.  I will start out New Year's Day (and a couple days before), where the ground is completely frozen, there's a bit of snow, the grandiflorum cultivar has gone to bed, but evergreen E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum 'Thunderbolt' has shiny rounded leaves drenched blackish-purple revealing the network of green veins on each leaf, and semi-evergreen E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' turns a rich burnished red-leather color.

From here, the photos will progress through spring, into summer, and then back into fall and winter again.  A couple other eppies will be seen along the journey.  This timeline series will be in 3 installments.

We start with a few winter photos, then move on to the early Epimedium season at the end of March.  Epimedium x versicolor 'versicolor' is particularly floriferous and beautiful, thus featured.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 23, 2010, 05:36:56 AM
Epimedium timeline threesome - Photos 11-20:  E. x versicolor 'Versicolor', E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum 'Thunderbolt', E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace'.

These three species are planted side by side along a garden path.  The metamorphosis of each plant's appearance through an extended season is rather dramatic and visually captivating.  The star is E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' with soft pink and yellow blooms atop a shield of intensely colored red spring foliage highlighting a network of luminous green veins.  The glorious foliage starts to overtake the flowers.

The evergreen foliage of E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum 'Thunderbolt' had been cut off, as it must to better appreciate the spikes of bright yellow verbascum-like flowers.  The soft juvenile spring foliage quickly surpasses and semi-conceals the blooms.

E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace' is a study of understatement, with fine chocolate suffused leaves accentuating green veins, and pale yellow flowers partly hidden below the canopy of emerging leaves.

By early to mid May, these Epimediums transform into beautiful foliar accents, most of the flowers gone or hidden by the foliage, and starting to set seed, yet indispensable for their season-long foliar value.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 23, 2010, 05:41:55 AM
Epimedium timeline threesome - Photos 21-30:  E. x versicolor 'Versicolor', E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum 'Thunderbolt', E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace'.

These three species are planted side by side along a garden path.  The metamorphosis of each plant's appearance through an extended season is rather dramatic and visually captivating.  

By June, the famous "second flush" of foliar growth is happening on many epimediums. With E. pinnatum ssp. colchicim 'Thunderbolt', the spring foliage has settled in to a shiny deep green color, and new leaves are much lighter green, for a nice effect. With E. x versicolor 'Versicolor', the second leaf flush is a medley of intensely variegated red-tinged green-veined foliage to fresh light green foliage against shiny darker green foliage, very special!

In photo #24, we see the fall foliar patch of E. koreanum in yellow, an aggressive spreader. In the upper right is E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace' still green in leaf on October 22, 2009.  Just below it is E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' with foliage appearing near black, and evergreen E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum 'Thunderbolt' below it.

In photo #25, we see the same eppie threesome, but further back, showing a large clump of E. x rubrum in fall foliar color,  a pale reddish-tan color.  Also, notice that E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace' has foliage turned yellow just a week later.

In photos #26-28, we see all three "eppies", but it is E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace' that turns a really bright yellow by mid November.

The last two photos, #29-30 show the initial two evergreen epimediums in their December color. These are truly plants of full seasonal interest.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on January 23, 2010, 10:48:58 AM
Mark your plants (and planting) are remarkable. I have to ask this: Do you have a problem with vine weevils?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 23, 2010, 09:13:11 PM
Mark your plants (and planting) are remarkable. I have to ask this: Do you have a problem with vine weevils?

Thanks.  There are vine weevils here, but not to the point where they have become a major problem.  Do you have a problem with these critters and epimediums in the UK?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 24, 2010, 09:29:27 AM
You have really inspired me with your fantastic photos of Epimedium in your woodland Mark, they are glorious ground cover under your trees and along pathways. Your woodland is obviously quite a mix from the leaves the ground and I wonder if your soil is quite acidic ?

Quote
E. x versicolor 'Neosulphureum', one looking up at the flowers clearing showing the short spurs

love this shot  :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on January 24, 2010, 09:37:27 AM
Epimediums seem to be a favourite food for them, but they only kill the ones in pots, in the ground they are tolerated. This can be a problem to other plants if the weevils move onto them from the epimedium 'base station'.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 24, 2010, 03:59:37 PM
Epimediums seem to be a favourite food for them, but they only kill the ones in pots, in the ground they are tolerated. This can be a problem to other plants if the weevils move onto them from the epimedium 'base station'.

I only tried growing Epimediums in pots one year, and lost most over the winter, whereas they almost never die when planted in the ground.  I see from a couple google links on vine weevils, they like a whole range of plants, and I grow many (most) of what is in the following link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_vine_weevil#cite_note-0), so maybe there's enough for them to munch on in general, with no one group of plants becoming devastated.  I only have a few rhodies in my yard, but do notice the leaf edges getting nibbled at, but again, never have seen much evidence of them bothering Epimedium in the 21 years at my current location.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 24, 2010, 04:13:51 PM
You have really inspired me with your fantastic photos of Epimedium in your woodland Mark, they are glorious ground cover under your trees and along pathways. Your woodland is obviously quite a mix from the leaves the ground and I wonder if your soil is quite acidic ?

Quote
E. x versicolor 'Neosulphureum', one looking up at the flowers clearing showing the short spurs
love this shot  :)   

Thanks Robin.  In a way, many of my garden views could be considered Trompe D'Oeil, because if one goes about carefully selecting views, carefully framing and cropping the shots, it can give the appearance of much more extensive gardens than what is really there.  But it has been one of my goals to photograph plants through the seasons (not just when in flower), and to show entire plants as we typically see them, to get a idea about how they'll look in the landscape.  In some cases, as with E. x versicolor 'Neosulphureum', I tried to get a worm's-eye view looking up at the flowers, as the floral characteristics are diagnostic to tell the difference between it and E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum'.  And yes, the soil here is acidic.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 24, 2010, 06:55:07 PM
A portrait of Epimedium x 'Black Sea'

Sometimes listed as a cultivar of E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum, I found the hybrid parentage listed as E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum x E.pubigerum on the JEARRARD'S HERBAL web site: http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/index.html
It's a super web site, scroll down to the list of genera and select Epimedium.

This hybrid is something special, with little else quite like it, a good candidate for hybridization efforts.  In photos 1-2 taken spring 2009, the evergreen foliage had been cut off early, to get a clean floral display, not that it is necessary in this hybrid because the flower stems soar past the old foliage for an aerial display.  Without the support of the old evergreen foliage at the base, the flower stems did not grow as tall, and rise with angular ascent, rather pretty I think. The clouds of pastel yellow orange-veined flowers put on a good show.

In photos 3-6 taken the previous year in 2008, I left the evergreen foliage on, and one sees a different effect in spring, looking more substantial, the dark red shiny basal evergreen foliage "grounding" the airiness of the new growth.  Photo 7 is a closeup view of the flowers.  Photo 8 shows the special feature of this hybrid; the beautiful red-black burnished autumn-winter foliage.  Photo 9 shows the same (younger) plant taken on New Year's Day 2007.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 24, 2010, 09:49:31 PM
Mark,

I had just ordered Black Sea for Spring and now sea I made the right choice.  I currently only grow three Epimediums in the garden, as other varieties are rarely offered at garden centres.  I plan to visit the old Ahrends nursery this Spring and see if I can find any other varieties.  At this time, I have found no one offering the chinese species on the continent, but they are certainly here, just not yet public.

These foto essays are simply wonderful.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 28, 2010, 08:40:12 PM
A couple more eppies.

Epimedium x youngianum 'Capella' - a spritely little thing with bright rose flowers (leaves of E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' in the background).

Epimedium grandiflorum 'Lavender Lady' - Darrell Probst introduced this in 2000, reportedly a spontaneous cross between E. sempervirens 'Violet Queen' and E. grandiflorum 'Silver Queen' found in Harold Epstein's garden.  Gorgeous spring foliage and showy flowers.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 28, 2010, 09:20:49 PM
Quote
In photos 1-2 taken spring 2009, the evergreen foliage had been cut off early, to get a clean floral display, not that it is necessary in this hybrid because the flower stems soar past the old foliage for an aerial display

A portrait of Epimedium x 'Black Sea' :

I love this effect and the acid green of the new leaves with the yellow flowers high above...

Quote
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Lavender Lady .......'Gorgeous spring foliage and showy flowers

What a contrast in how the flowers present themselves like a skirt around the lavender edged leaves....

Both wonderful in their Spring show, Mark, your descriptions and comments make them even more enticing   8)

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 28, 2010, 09:23:27 PM
While the delicate, pendant stems of flowers on many vars are delightful, I'm wondering if anyone is hybridizing specifically for more upright forms, using those plants which have tall, stiff stems?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 28, 2010, 09:38:32 PM
While the delicate, pendant stems of flowers on many vars are delightful, I'm wondering if anyone is hybridizing specifically for more upright forms, using those plants which have tall, stiff stems?

That's a good point Lesley.  I'm going to start dabbling with some hand-made crosses (versus just letting the bees do it) in 2010, and I have ear-marked varieties such as 'Black Sea', several of the x versicolor varieties, E. brevicornu and several asiatic species, all having flowers well presented above the foliage.  Of course the ones to watch, are some of those like D.Probst's E. sp. nov 'The Giant' with tall upright, indeterminate flower stalks that can keep on growing, branching and flowering for a very long time.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 28, 2010, 11:56:22 PM
Epimedium profile:  E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts'

With E. sempervirens, the best aspect of the species is the foliage, spectacular in some cultivars such as this 2001 introduction from Darrell Probst.  I include a number of photographs, as it presents itself differently day to day, week after week, and under different lighting conditions.  In late spring and early summer, there are flushes of colorful new leaves.  The flowers, while large, are a pale washed-out color (described as silvery lavender pink), but it is definitely worth growing for the foliage alone.  This is a very slow grower, and a clumper not a spreader.

Seedlings show interesting variation.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 05, 2010, 03:19:30 AM
More E. semperivens (apparently, not so popular, although I like them).

Epimedium sempervirens are unsurpassed as foliage plants.  One of the best is E. sempervirens 'Aurora'.  It has pale lavender blooms, but it is the shiny foliage that really stands out, which can be beautifully edged in red. In the 3rd photo, a more general view of an enbankment with several E. sempervirens cultivars, 'Aurora' in the center, E. sempervirens 'Vega' in the lower right with very shiny pointed leaflets, and E. x setosum in the upper right (x setosum is a hybrid between E. diphyllum and E. sempervirens).
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on February 05, 2010, 07:42:20 AM
Very lovely foliage this one as well  ::)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 08, 2010, 05:02:14 AM
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Dark Beauty' - partial spring to summer timeline.

This is among my very favorite eppies, a chameleon to be sure, almost a different color and aspect every other day.  It emerges with foliage that is near black-red, but quickly assumes more muted tones of red and green, eventually giving over to green but strongly tinged red on the older foliage, the new leaflets still black-red.  The flowers are large spidery two-toned lavender and purple, showy and worthwhile in their own right.  The famed "second flush" of foliage after initial flowering is almost as spectacular as the initial foliage, young leaflets blood red, shading to paler suffused red tones on slightly older leaflets.  Eventually new leaflets are luminous light green against the darker green of older leaflets, yet still sporting red juvenile foliage through the season.  Fall color is an unremarkable yellowish.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: maggiepie on February 08, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
Mark, this is an absolute beauty, I think I have to have it!!

PS, your avatar cracks me up, even before you added the headwear ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ranunculus on February 08, 2010, 02:01:58 PM
I agree Helen ... avatar of the year (and it's only February)!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 09, 2010, 02:23:52 AM
Another dark-leaf beauty, colorful aspects of Epimedium grandiflorum var. violaceum 'Bronze Maiden'.

This is a 1999 introduction by Darrell Probst, another of those dark-leaf selections that goes through a dramatic cameleon-like transformation of foliage color.  The mahogany brown-red foliage is so shiny that it can look like polished leather.  It is a solid clumper with showy sprays of lavender flowers above the neat foliage.  By June the leaves turn green, but new foliage in the second flush of foliage and sporadic new leaves all summer, are richly red-tinged.  Outstanding!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on February 09, 2010, 09:02:45 AM
Mark,'living a pipe dream' strikes a real chord and is so far my favourite of your avatars although it was 'Inn-cog-knee-toe' - a smile a day!

Likewise, every time you show an Epimedim I think, that's my favourite, no that's my favourite.....but they all have different characteristics to admire and I love the changing foliage colours throughout the year when one doesn't expect or get second or third flush fireworks from other plants  8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 11, 2010, 06:14:28 PM
Epimedium x sasakii (hybrids between E. sempervirens and  E. x setosum)

A modest species to be sure, but still attractive in a demure way.  Slow growing, attractive colored foliage in spring, sprays of small pale flowers. This one is now a bittersweet memory for me, as Sasaki Associates is the name of the company I was recently laid off from after 20+ years service (and I didn't spend my days making avatars, I swear it!).

I grow two forms offered by Garden Vision Epimediums, and his 2001 introduction E. x sasakii 'Melody', a more robust showy hybrid.  These have evergreen foliage, which can be seen in the last photo.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on February 11, 2010, 06:32:01 PM
Many species and cultivars I didn't know Mark  :-\ Thanks again
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 12, 2010, 05:26:35 AM
Just three miscellaneous grandiflorums, E. grandiflorum 'Saxton's Purple', a fairly unique color, E. grandiflorum 'Princess Susan', a 1999 Darrell Probst introduction with showy bi-colored flowers of clean white and bright rose, and E. grandiflorum var. violaceum with lively flowers and contrasting dark color spring foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 13, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
More real beauties. I like 'Princess Susan' very much and wish she were here as she'd make a lovely gift to a loyal friend, Susan M (currently sipping (or sloshing back) wine in Hawkes Bay).

I see that you are peeling too Mark :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 14, 2010, 04:01:35 AM
More real beauties. I like 'Princess Susan' very much and wish she were here as she'd make a lovely gift to a loyal friend, Susan M (currently sipping (or sloshing back) wine in Hawkes Bay).

I see that you are peeling too Mark :D

Yes, the peeling last several days, and is getting worse now ;D but soon it will be better.  I am currently sipping (sloshing back) some cheapo unenployment-grade wine, but on Valentine's Day, Feb, 14th my wife and I shall inbibe a fine 2004 Australian 2004 GSM $22 bottle.  Then back to the cheaper stuff and unrestrained avatar indulgence, haha  ;D ;D ;D  Oh yeah, almost forgot... hurrah Epimediums!   :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 28, 2010, 03:04:13 AM
Epimediums are starting to wake up, and it means time for serious cleanup.  If the old stems and foliage are not cut back, they can really detract from their appearance when flowering until the fresh foliage "overcomes" the remnants of the previous year. Trying to trim back old foliage and stems when the new fresh shoots are intertwined through it all, becomes very difficult and time-consuming hand surgery, so better to shear them in late winter/early spring.  But there's a fine balance, cut the old "protective" growth too soon, the tender emerging shoots can be prone to damage from hard frosts.

Here are two photos of the evergreen Epimedium x 'Black Seas', frothing with buds on coiled fuzzy red stems.  This year I determined that the evergreen foliage was not in sufficiently good shape to leave on, so I cut them off weeks ago.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ranunculus on March 28, 2010, 08:46:14 AM
Oh my, Mark ... they are pretty just like that.  A close-up perhaps for the (rather neglected lately) 'arty' section?   ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on March 28, 2010, 06:03:40 PM
cut the old "protective" growth too soon, the tender emerging shoots can be prone to damage from hard frosts.
It is very tempting to cut back so how high is the risk do you think? I always cut back rubrum since it flowers below leaf anyway.
By the way, i think your way of posting many pictures is very helpful when it comes to identifying plants.
Princess Susan is a real gem I think
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 28, 2010, 07:29:53 PM
I was to move my E. grandiflorum nana but cant get it lifted. I bent one cheap fork, broke a plastic trowel. Can I cut it in situ with a bread knife?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 28, 2010, 08:04:20 PM
I was to move my E. grandiflorum nana but cant get it lifted. I bent one cheap fork, broke a plastic trowel. Can I cut it in situ with a bread knife?
It was after I broke two longhandled border forks trying to split a clump, that I gave up  growing Hostas!  :-X :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 28, 2010, 08:55:33 PM
I was to move my E. grandiflorum nana but cant get it lifted. I bent one cheap fork, broke a plastic trowel. Can I cut it in situ with a bread knife?

Not unless you're making croutons ;D  Seriously though, there's nothing tougher than a well established clump of Epimedium, that was one reason why, when I was working and had more $$ to spend, I would often buy some of the same epimediums that I already have because I just hate to dig these things up. The running or strongly rhizomatous Epimedium species are not too bad, it is the dense clumping species that are more challenging.

I use a heavy duty metal trowel, one that is narrow and has a pointed end, to slice into the edge of a clump in an attempt to extract small rooted pieces without digging up the whole plant.  Probably the best way, is to dig the whole thing up using a heavy duty spade... I do this when it's been dry for a couple days, to make it easier to knock off some soil and make determinations where to cut.  Then I use a sharpened "edger", a rectangular flat metal blade attached to a long wooden handle (used to cut into sod for a clean edge), where the root ball can be placed on it's side, place the edger blade to align where you want to cut, then use the full force of one's weight to kick the edger down into the rhizome mass.  There is always some collateral damage (rhizome pieces without root), but once the main root mass gets broken down, then it's possible to use a sharp knife or metal trowel to pry apart some smaller pieces.  Typically Epimediums are forgiving after such treatment, after replanting and kept moist, they seem to enjoy their youngling ability to spread out again into a bigger clump.  I have also potted up such divisions in flats to keep a closer eye on watering, but never leave them in pots for very long and certainly not over winter, they prefer being in the ground.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on March 29, 2010, 01:13:32 PM
I use an axe when I divide Agapanthus I assume it would do for Epimediums and Hostas as well.  ;D
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 29, 2010, 01:20:48 PM
I use an axe when I divide Agapanthus I assume it would do for Epimediums and Hostas as well.  ;D
Göte

But Göte, my husband does not consider me to be safe when in charge of an axe...... ::) :-X
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 29, 2010, 01:21:57 PM
I need to tell you the plants is in a polstyrene box covered in hypertufa. This morning I tried to lever the plant out but stopped when I heard a crack.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 29, 2010, 01:30:06 PM
I need to tell you the plants is in a polstyrene box covered in hypertufa. This morning I tried to lever the plant out but stopped when I heard a crack.

Is the trough to big/heavy to up end in push/shake the plant out that way, with the extra help of gravity?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on March 29, 2010, 06:36:03 PM
I use an axe when I divide Agapanthus I assume it would do for Epimediums and Hostas as well.  ;D
Göte

But Göte, my husband does not consider me to be safe when in charge of an axe...... ::) :-X
That is an excellent excuse for letting him do the job  ;D
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 29, 2010, 07:01:17 PM
I use an axe when I divide Agapanthus I assume it would do for Epimediums and Hostas as well.  ;D
Göte

But Göte, my husband does not consider me to be safe when in charge of an axe......  :o ::) :P ;)
That is an excellent excuse for letting him do the job  ;D
Göte
Well, no, because I do not consider MYSELF  to be safe when HE has the axe!  :o ;D :P ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: vivienr on March 29, 2010, 07:16:24 PM
I find the best tool for splitting tough clumps is a machete we bought in Mexico (for getting into coconuts) many years ago and brought back in a suitcase via the USA. I don't think we'd get away with doing that these days :o ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 29, 2010, 08:05:20 PM
The eppies are waking up and starting to unfurl their fuzzy shoots.  I thought I'd put together some photos that help show the differences in two Epimedium cultivars, E. x versicolor 'Cupreum' and E. x versicolor 'Versicolor'.  They have the same seed parents are are indeed similar, but when observing both in the garden, they are distinctive enough to easily spot which is which.

Compared to E. x versicolor 'Versicolor', the salmon pink and yellow flowers in 'Cupreum' have a deeper color, especially noticeable in the dark color red buds, and foliage of 'Cupreum' tends to be more intensely bronzy-red giving greater emphasis to the green venation.  Overall, I find find E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' a faster growing plant, more floriferous, with masses of softer pastel salmon flowers.  In late autumn and early winter, the fall foliage color is different, a bright orangish-red (with yellow underlay) in 'Cupreum', a lustrous mahogany brown-red in 'Versicolor'. In the last photo, E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' is on the left, E. pinnatum colchicum 'Thunderbolt' on the right.

I hope to capture photographs of two more recent of Darrell Probst's versicolor hybrids, 'Cherry Tart' and 'Strawberry Blush'; both were too small in previous years to warrant photos, but should be good this year.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: monocotman on March 30, 2010, 01:38:15 PM
Hi there,
my favourite tool for hacking up reluctant plants is an old saw.
It should make short work of epimediums as it is successful with ancient agapanthus plants
several years old. You can also be fairly exact as to where you want to cut!
Regards,
David
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 04, 2010, 05:28:35 PM
Epimediums are literally jumping out of the ground, after nearly a week of rain followed by warm sunshine, and temperatures up to 25 C.  This morning I took these photos of the hairy, muscular, frond-like uncoiling shoots of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille'.  And from 2 days ago, on 04-02-2010, fuzzy mass of shoots and buds on E. x versicolor 'Versicolor', and red-tinted shoots on E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen'.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 06, 2010, 08:58:08 PM
More Epimedium spring foliage and stems emerging:

1.  E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace' - dark emerging shoots
2.  E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille' - forrest of shoots (further along than inearlier photos)
3.  E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' - budding, a few first flowers open, the very first "eppie" to bloom.
4.  E. grandiflorum var. violaceum - emerging growth catching afternoon sun.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on April 10, 2010, 02:44:56 PM
today now some pics from my ( poor ) collection of Epimedium

Epimedium diphyllum
Epimedium pauciflorum
Epimedium platypetalum Og. 93085

Could please anybody confirm the ID of the E.pauciflorum ...I have it received from a Bot. Garden ..... ???

Thank you
Hans 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 10, 2010, 03:11:46 PM
Epimedium pauciflorum
Could please anybody confirm the ID of the E.pauciflorum ...I have it received from a Bot. Garden ..... ???

Thank you
Hans 8)

Hans, your E. pauciflorum looks correct, you took a good clear photo, the rounded spiny-edged leaves (with red mottling on new leaves) is characteristic.  I was attempting to photograph my plants yesterday, but since it was raining, the photos came out bad, will reshoot them today.  My plant came Darrell Probst.  Not sure where you planted it, but this one comes with a warning... it is a "rampant" spreader, with annual advancing rhizomes of 8-12" (20-30 cm), and is best planted in a wilder part of the garden or woods where it has room to spread.  And as Epimediums go, it is true to its name, few-flowered and not as showy as many others.

E. platypetalum is a charmer isn't it.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 10, 2010, 04:29:16 PM
Hans, for comparison, here's Epimedium pauciflorum photo taken today, 04-10-2010.  This is supposedly an evergreen species, many eppies are evergreen here, but for our climate I would call this one semi-evergreen at best.  It leaves behind persistent dead leaves that are difficult to pull off, making the plant look scrappy.  I had to hold a flower stem steady, as it is bitter cold and windy today.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on April 10, 2010, 04:40:12 PM
  Not sure where you planted it, but this one comes with a warning... it is a "rampant" spreader, with annual advancing rhizomes of 8-12" (20-30 cm), and is best planted in a wilder part of the garden or woods where it has room to spread.  And as Epimediums go, it is true to its name, few-flowered and not as showy as many others.


I second that. I had to move mine to under what is supposed to become a Rhododendron hedge. However, Olga wrote last year that she uses them as ground cover under her cyps!
I try to cut tattered last year's leaves of most Eppies with a pair of cissors.
Cheers
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 10, 2010, 05:36:13 PM
  Not sure where you planted it, but this one comes with a warning... it is a "rampant" spreader, with annual advancing rhizomes of 8-12" (20-30 cm), and is best planted in a wilder part of the garden or woods where it has room to spread.  And as Epimediums go, it is true to its name, few-flowered and not as showy as many others.

I second that. I had to move mine to under what is supposed to become a Rhododendron hedge. However, Olga wrote last year that she uses them as ground cover under her cyps!  I try to cut tattered last year's leaves of most Eppies with a pair of cissors.
Cheers
Göte

A better species for underplanting would be E. rhizomatosum, described in 1998... also a strong spreader, but definitely more evergreen, very low growing, and with handsome red-speckled mottled leaflets.  The best aspect is that it flowers late spring and most all summer, and even into fall!  It has large spidery yellow blooms.  I moved mine last year, as it was infiltrating neighboring plants, and planted it the base of a 5-meter long Lilac planting.  It is just starting to leaf out now, will get a picture posted in a few days when in fresh spring growth, and flowers in the summer... it is a species I currently lack a good photo of.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on April 11, 2010, 08:29:11 AM
Hi Mark ,

Thank you for your confirmation and your pic of E.pauciflorum.
In this time are my E.pauciflorum still in a pot but I have the feeling they not like to growing in pots - I have to look for place in the garden :-\

Hans
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on April 14, 2010, 08:08:36 AM
Was hoping somebody could help me with some picks or a discription of flowers of these newly purchased Epimediums. Mark?

Epimedium omeinensis or is it know as omeinense as I have found referance to both. Are they the same thing or differant species?

Epimedium y "freckles" (dont know why the "y" is there).

Epimedium cv Japanese cultivar. Supposing know and passed around as "japanese cultivar"


Cheers
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 14, 2010, 11:02:28 AM
Quote
Epimedium y "freckles" (dont know why the "y" is there).

 I think this 'Freckles' is an Epimedium youngianum cultivar
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 14, 2010, 12:57:39 PM
Was hoping somebody could help me with some picks or a discription of flowers of these newly purchased Epimediums. Mark?
Epimedium y "freckles" (dont know why the "y" is there).

Maggi is correct, this is E. x youngianum 'Freckles', a seedling that appeared in the garden of Harold Epstein.  I have uploaded a photo showing it in flower, although the leaf-spotting or freckling is not clearly visible in the photo.  Just checked my plant, it is just starting to flower, a photo taken of the foliage and uploaded here.


Epimedium cv Japanese cultivar. Supposing know and passed around as "japanese cultivar"

This is another youngianum cultivar that Harold Epstein bought on a trip to Japan, but lost the label for, so the plant gows around as E. x youngianum "Japanese Cultivar".  Mine is getting ready to bloom.


Epimedium omeinensis or is it know as omeinense as I have found referance to both. Are they the same thing or differant species?

This is Epimedium x omeiense (note spelling), a naturally occuring hybrid.
http://www.heronswood.com/perennials_perennials-d-to-e_epimedium/epimedium-x-omeiense-djhc-98428/

A collection on Mt. Emei in Sichuan, used by Stearn as the type for specimen for the description of this naturally occurring hybrid.  Bright red sepals with orange/yellow spurs.  It's a beautiful plant.
Epimedium x omeiense 'Akame' (synonyms 'Emei Shan', 'Rigeletto')
http://www.desirableplants.com/page26.html
http://www.desirableplants.com/Epimedium%20x%20omeiense%20'Akame'.jpg

On the Desirable Plants web site, the cross is described as fangii x acuminatum.

Plant Delights Nursery has a selection of this cross named 'Razzleberry', a new introduction for 2010.
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/07325.html
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on April 14, 2010, 01:58:20 PM
Thanks Maggi and Mark.

Will make some corrections on the labels.

Thanks for showing the pick of E x youngianum 'Freckles'. I can see some leaf spotting in your pick. Looks nice in flower too.

I would be keen to see your E x youngianum 'Japanese cultivar' in bloom.

E x omeiense 'Akame' looks amazing, great colour to the flowers and nice dark flecks to the leaf. A must have, will see if its in the country.

So what you are saying or have read that E x omeiense can be variable in flower colour from lavander purple and white in heronswood's and the collection from Mt Emei has red and yellow...totally differant?? Do you have either of these?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 14, 2010, 02:26:49 PM

I would be keen to see your E x youngianum 'Japanese cultivar' in bloom.

So what you are saying or have read that E x omeiense can be variable in flower colour from lavander purple and white in heronswood's and the collection from Mt Emei has red and yellow...totally differant?? Do you have either of these?

Yes, since this is a naturally occuring hybrid between a yellow flowered species, E. fangii, and E. acuminatum having white sepals and purple petals, the color possibilities are many.  I do not have E. x omeiense 'Akame' yet... although it is available here (I haven't sprung for the $30 asking price yet). I have both parent species, maybe I can recreate the cross :o
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 14, 2010, 10:12:45 PM

Epimedium y "freckles" (dont know why the "y" is there).

You have Spanish connections perhaps? :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on April 15, 2010, 07:28:28 AM
Mark thats like dangling a carrot  ;D an interesting project that I would be very interested in. If  any seed was available, would like to trade.PLease!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 15, 2010, 02:27:26 PM
Mark thats like dangling a carrot  ;D an interesting project that I would be very interested in. If  any seed was available, would like to trade.PLease!

Sure, send me a PM so that I have it as a reminder in my SRGC inbox.  I need to find my E. acuminatum in the garden, when one has 180+ species and cultivars, duplicates of some, and lots of hybrid seedlings, it is hard to keep track where they all are. 

So far as E. fangii, it is low growing with beautiful small foliage the get a deep leathery green when mature.  It is in just emerging now, with flower buds showing, but I must MOVE it.  When planted out, I didn't realize it was a spreader, with rhizomes spreading 8" (20 cm) each way each year... I can see that behavior now, so will relocate it to a suitable spot. 

Darrell Probst tells an interesting story about the plants he reintroduced, as the type plants which he twice imported from England and once from Japan, were fussy and eventually died.  The plants Darrell reintroduced from Mt. Emei China are willing growers, and hardy, at least here in our northern New England garden clime.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 15, 2010, 02:48:28 PM
Flowering now and putting on a display more impressive than imagined, is a rare variegated form of Epimedium sempervirens.  It doesn't have a cultivar name yet, it is just referenced as E. sempervirens "Variegated #1".   This form was purchased in Japan by Darrell Probst in 1997, who says it "cost a small fortune".

What a stunner it is, even more compelling than my photos which fail to adequately capture the intensity and nuance of color of the brilliant new foliage embracing creamy white flowers, all hovering above dark leathery winter-evergreen leaves.  To quote Darrell, the variegation of new foliage is supposed to turn "a swirling collage of white, pink, and light green" which last well into summer.

Photos 3-4 show the plant at younger emergence, with deep red leaf tones.  In Photo 5, just two days later, the leaves are starting to expand, they are infused with mottled red and pink coloration  :o :o  In photos 1-3 notice how the aerial flower and new foliage effect is set off by a low brace of shiny evergreen foliage; looks great in the garden.

I wonder what it'll look like today :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on April 15, 2010, 07:30:15 PM
Vancouver has had a very early spring, we had virtually no frost after Jan. Many plants have bloomed very early, others are following their regular seasonal growth patterns. The epimediums seem to be regulated by temperature rather than season, some have already finished blooming. One just coming into bloom is this unnamed  species collected by Darrel Probst called simply "The Giant". It bloomed until November last year in my greenhouse, the flower stems are indeterminate and will continue extending, I suspect to even longer than the described 8 feet. In one of these pics I'm pointing to where the still expanding tip sits. Will try to post a few more Epic pics from the west coast this week. Philip
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 15, 2010, 07:35:54 PM
Vancouver has had a very early spring, we had virtually no frost after Jan. Many plants have bloomed very early, others are following their regular seasonal growth patterns. The epimediums seem to be regulated by temperature rather than season, some have already finished blooming. One just coming into bloom is this unnamed  species collected by Darrel Probst called simply "The Giant". It bloomed until November last year in my greenhouse, the flower stems are indeterminate and will continue extending, I suspect to even longer than the described 8 feet. In one of these pics I'm pointing to where the still expanding tip sits. Will try to post a few more Epic pics from the west coast this week. Philip

Philip, absolutely fantastic!  I like how you are pointing out the top of the plant :D  I have seen this in flower in Darrell Probst's 100' long greenhouse and the TBD (to be determined) species never ceases to amaze me; love the large caramel colored flowers too.  Now, I do wonder how it would grow, and what it would be like, when grown out in the garden... might need support from nearly shrubs or something.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 15, 2010, 07:39:29 PM
My goodness, Philip, if you had posted this on April 1st I would have had to dismiss it as a fantasy  :-X
An extraordinary size of Epimedium... and what a great colour  8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on April 15, 2010, 08:10:11 PM
Philip

What Epimedium? Where?

I see a Podophyllum by your knee though. ;)

"....might need support from nearly shrubs or something." How about a tree?

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on April 15, 2010, 10:56:10 PM
 :o Yeah thats a wow plant! Interesting.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on April 16, 2010, 08:50:44 AM
My goodness, Philip, if you had posted this on April 1st I would have had to dismiss it as a fantasy  :-X
An extraordinary size of Epimedium... and what a great colour  8)
If you read Stearn's book you will find some large species and if grown with skill and TLC they are likely to become great and gigantic plants.
Let us hope that they become more easily available.
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 16, 2010, 09:34:58 AM
My goodness, Philip, if you had posted this on April 1st I would have had to dismiss it as a fantasy  :-X
An extraordinary size of Epimedium... and what a great colour  8)
If you read Stearn's book you will find some large species and if grown with skill and TLC they are likely to become great and gigantic plants.
Let us hope that they become more easily available.
Göte
Reading is one thing...seeing is another  ;) ;D  (From a country in the throes of an election!! :P)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: shelagh on April 16, 2010, 03:41:34 PM
Our Epimediums have been slow to start this year but here are 2. Epimedium ogisui and E. davidii.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 19, 2010, 01:22:38 AM
Our Epimediums have been slow to start this year but here are 2. Epimedium ogisui and E. davidii.

Shelagh, a great start to the epimedium season, don't you think the asiatic epimedium are fantastic with their red-mottled spring foliage colors, practically worth growing for the foliage alone; not to slight the big spidery flowers which are also a delight! 

Here the Epimediums are a full 3 weeks ahead.  More photos forthcoming.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 19, 2010, 02:15:42 AM
The Epimedium season is suddenly upon us with wild abandon here in Northeastern USA, fully 3 weeks ahead of normal due to a series of weather contitions; an unusually mild spring, a few periods of record rainfall (with flooding), fueled by extended periods of warm and mild dry sunshine, including a couple days of record heat.  The Epimediums are jumping out of the ground! 

1 - 3  E. epsteinii, an evergreen species named as recently as 1994, It is slow to become established, but once happy it makes a striking specimen, with leathery dark green evergreen foliage mixed with orange-bronze new foliage, and discreet panicles of substantial flowers of exceptionally broad white sepals, contrasting with the dark purple cup and petals.  This is a plant that needs to be planted high on an enbankment to best appreciate the beautiful down-faced blooms.

4.  E. fangii - this photo shows a bit of dark green oval evergreen foliage mixed with a small emerging leaflet of rich mottled red... more to come.  This plant is one that Darrell Probst introduced as a hardy growable form from Mt. Emei China, of an otherwise tempermental not-so-hardy species from previous introductions. This one is a "spreader" with long annual rhizomes, so site it accordingly.  It has large yellow flowers.  Quickly becoming one of my favorites.

5 - 7  E. fargesii, a Chinese species that is hard to capture photographically. Long slender spine-edged evergreen leaflets and slender tallish panicles with down-turned delicate white flowers, like little slender white "shooting stars" with reflexed sepals and small grape purple centers.  Enchanting.

8 - 9  E. stellulatum, another Chinese evergreen species.  Photo 8 shows the basal evergreen spine-edged foliage, a nice base to light filmy panicles of starry white flowers with yellow centers, with a haze of spring cauline leaves that are variably marbled red, bronze and green.  In my photos, the flowers are just starting to open. A good one to be sure!

10.  E. leptorrhizum, a Chinese species that is very low and spreading up to 8" annually on long stolons.  As it is, I have not sited it well, must replant it where it is free to create a spreading groundcover without invading neighbors.  The spidery light pink blooms are extra large held close to the textured olive bronze-tinged foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on April 19, 2010, 09:30:58 AM
here a other Epimedium from me :

Epimedium grandiflorum 'Coelestre'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: shelagh on April 19, 2010, 02:30:26 PM
Looking very good Mark.  We have another pink one in the front garden but it is so low I'm not sure if I can bear to grovel down and snap it.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 19, 2010, 03:24:59 PM
Looking very good Mark.  We have another pink one in the front garden but it is so low I'm not sure if I can bear to grovel down and snap it.

By the way, I forgot to mention about E. ogisui, it is definitely an attractive species, there are not many with all white flowers. It is a species I do not yet grow but must try sometime, but it is one of the few epimedium species listed as USDA Zone 6, so it might be a little tender in my colder Zone 5 garden.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on April 19, 2010, 03:39:23 PM
My goodness, Philip, if you had posted this on April 1st I would have had to dismiss it as a fantasy  :-X
An extraordinary size of Epimedium... and what a great colour  8)
If you read Stearn's book you will find some large species and if grown with skill and TLC they are likely to become great and gigantic plants.
Let us hope that they become more easily available.
Göte
Reading is one thing...seeing is another  ;) ;D  (From a country in the throes of an election!! :P)
Growing them is a third - however, one must get them first. ;D
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 21, 2010, 02:35:23 PM
It is Epimedium madness time here, all busting into bloom.  I share a miscellany of Epimedium images that caught my fancy in the bright sunlight yesterday (and sunny and warm again today... more epimedium photo shoots!).

1   -  colorful epimedium leaves catching afternoon sunlight in the garden
2   -  E. grandiflorum 'Lavender Lady' overlooking maidenhair fern fronds and pulmonaria.
3   -  view of young epimedium foliage, top center is the giant E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen'
4   -  epimedium foliage, E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' at centerstage with red, green-veined leaves, and E. grandiflorum 'Cocolate
        Lace' to the left.
5   -  splash of orange in my allium garden, Epimedium x warleyense flowering prolifically.
6-9 - Epimedium pinnatum ssp. colchicum flowering.  Evergreen foliage cut off to see the floral show. 
        The young leaves are inrolled showing off their fuzzy backsides.
10  - Bed of mixed hybrid seedlings, those with wonderful coffee and caramel toned leaves are hybrids between
        E. grandiforum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille' x E. grandiforum 'Dark Beauty'

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on April 21, 2010, 04:36:08 PM
Mark
Thank you very-very much maintaining this topic! While my Epimeds are still sleeping I enjoy yours and learn more about them.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 23, 2010, 03:25:58 AM
I grow approximately 180 different species and cultivars.  But now I'm wondering why there aren't a million hybrids, as they are all so willing to hybridize.  I had heard that most epimedium are self sterile, and need other plants/species around, and then they freely hybridize.  In 2005, I started getting many seedlings around parent plants; they're such cute seedlings I couldn't throw them away, so I decided to pot them up and eventually plant them out, labeling the seedlings as to what parent plant they were found near.  Well, I am just dazzled by the results.  So I include two photos of Epimedium grandiflorum 'Dark Beauty', one of the most dramatic cultivars with foliage that emerges near black-red, then goes through a gorgeous transformation through all shades of reddish brown, coffee, and caramel leaf colors.  I follow with 4 photos of mixed hybrid seedlings, many being hybrids with 'Dark Beauty', inheriting the same dramatic spring foliage color.

Today the flowers started opening on 'Dark Beauty', so I spent a couple hours this morning hand pollinating and making intentional crosses... such fun! I'm selecting specific parents that possess desirable qualities, then dabbing pollen.  While epimedium flowers are small, they're actually fairly easy to work with to make crosses, some species/culivars having more abundant easy-to-access pollen than others.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Carlo on April 23, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
Beautiful Mark! Fall foliage in spring!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 24, 2010, 06:29:15 AM
What a gorgeous lady is the 'Dark Beauty.' :P
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2010, 01:15:18 PM
What a gorgeous lady is the 'Dark Beauty.' :P

Lesley, I notice in your various posts, that you like dark color flowers and plants.  More dark eppies coming.... :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2010, 01:18:06 PM
The Epimediums just keep on coming...

1 - 3   E. x 'Domino' - one one the finest new (2004) intoductions by Darrell Probst.  Of Asiatic parentage, the plant is elegantly clothed in slender pointed leaves, finely soft-spined and tinged with purplish-red as the foliage emerges. The slender panicles of flowers are well presented above the foliage.  Spidery ivory white flowers shading to a deep brooding pink cup, set off by dark stems and pedicels, and dark purple outer sepals give the buds the appearance of shiny black grapes.  The flowers remind me of birds in flight.

4 - 6  E. x 'Sunshowers' - introduced by Darrell Probst in 2008, a cultivar created by a friend of Darrell's.  A cute small growing plant with red-speckled foliage, and spires of plump soft yellow flowers.  Viewed from above gives a slightly different effect, showing the white, finely pink-spotted sepals.

7 -  E. sempervirens 'Violet Queen' -  sheer flower power in this one, a fantastic plant for the masses of large violet flowers and brilliant spring foliage that appears after the flowers.

8 - 10  E. grandiflorum 'Purple Prince' - without doubt one of the darkest purple flowered forms of grandiforum.  Depending on the light, the flowers can look nearly black-purple.  Flowers are well interspersed and visible among the well formed canopy of foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 24, 2010, 11:51:06 PM
I'll look forward to them Mark. Might be away from home for a couple of days though.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on April 25, 2010, 02:18:34 PM
Your box of mixed seedlings made me smile - so tiny, but already so completely different. As a bee-mimic myself (daffodils) I can appreciate what a delight it must be to see these babies appear.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on April 25, 2010, 02:21:08 PM
Also - Domino and Violet Queen- WOW! Are these varieties available in the UK, or is it a US speciality?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 26, 2010, 03:00:09 AM
Also - Domino and Violet Queen- WOW! Are these varieties available in the UK, or is it a US speciality?

Probably US specialties for the time being.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 26, 2010, 03:05:05 AM
Epimedium foliar color is playing a major role in the garden this spring:

1-5  Epimedium garden seedling with brilliant red and yellow mottled spring foliage.. Yowsa!  This is a hybrid between E. membranaceum and E. brevicornu .  Starry white flowers with larger yellow cup... flowering has just started.

6.  E. x sasaki - natural hybrids in Japan between E. sempervirens and x setosum.  Several variants are offered by Garden Vision Nursery, this one (Cc.950183) is my favorite, with blunt, rounded sheild like leaves that are pinkish-red tinged in spring.

7.  E. sempervirens 'Violet Queen' - this cultivar has about the most intensely colored new foliage appearing as the flowers go over, than any other epimedium cultivar... brilliant red with green veining.

8.  E. x youngianum 'Little Shield' - a 2004 introduction by Darrell Probst.  This has quicken risen to one of my top 20 epimedium, making a mat much wider than tall, densley clothed in purplish-brown textured shield-shaped leaves; the perky pure white flowers just clearly the foliage.  A refined beauty.

9.  E. wushanense "Spiny-leaved Forms" - another Darrell Probst introduction from Japan.  While the foliage is evergreen, I cut the foliage off this year to see the fresh young foliage better and to work with the flowers (hybridization) more easily.   The new leaves are long and narrow and spiny-edged, of a unique burnished brownish green color, and remarkably glossy.

10. E. stellulatum - a wonderful Chinese species, one of several that create clouds of small white flowers with tiny yellow centers.  But is is the new cauline leaves that are spine-edged and heavily mottled with red, that gradually expand in size, to become the true show of this species.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: shelagh on April 26, 2010, 05:31:29 PM
OK I have been and grovelled down on my knees with the camera and here is what's flowering in my garden today.

Ep. davidii
? x 2 Rose Queen (the blackbirds have a habit of label removal)
Ep. rubrum
Ep. x versicolor sulphureum
Ep. perraldianum
Ep. Merlin
Ep. SSS (self sown seedling)
x 2 Ep. leptorrhizum
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 26, 2010, 05:55:46 PM
Beauties, all of them.

Here are some which are flowering here now:

E. grandiflorum 'Spring Wedding'
E. rubrum
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Regelian on April 26, 2010, 08:32:08 PM
Well, I have only a few Epimedium in the garden and can't compare with the rest of your wonderfull blossoms, but I just gotta share!

The first two are Epimedium'Enchantment', apparently a hybrid, but of what I don't know.  I suspect E. grandiflorum is in there. 

The next is E. grandiflorum'Chris Norton', which seems to be more of a violet, rather than lavender, as in Wim's 'Spring Wedding'.

The last two are 'Amber Queen', which, as you can see, has wonderful foliage.  The flowers are very small, delicate and produced in abundance.
 
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on April 27, 2010, 09:04:32 AM
My Epimediums are just unfurling but i moved half a dozen seedlings that popped up last year.
It will become nearly a problem. I already have hellebores popping up everywhere and I have to rescue them since some of them might be very good. Now I have to take care of all epimedium seedlings too.
Space! space! a kingdom for some space!  ;D
Göte
PS
Yes I do have space but I cannot put everything in a thicket of Rubus and aegpodium ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 27, 2010, 11:09:21 AM
Some really lovely flowers as well as foliage on Epimediums here:

Shelagh, the photo of your Ep Merlin is lovely , well worth the grovel  ;D

Jamie, E. grandiflorum'Chris Norton' is a really attractive flower shape as well as colour and Amber Queen, just very 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 27, 2010, 04:59:20 PM
Shelagh - some good eppies there :D.  Good detail shot of Merlin, showing well the rounded inflated shape of the cup (a fairly unique feauture), the rich flower color shading to white inside.  I have a plant by this name, one of the few I DID NOT buy from Darrell Probst and Garden Vision Epimedium but got it from some general nursery, and I suspect mine is misnamed.  Good shot too of leptorrhizum, being a low grower it's hard to get an upfacing view as you did... I like the dark cup rim on that one.  The photo labeled as E. x versicolor sulphureum looks like it is actually an E. davidii form.  I have uploaded a few closeup shots of E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum' for comparison, also one view comparing flowers on 'Neosulphureum' (on left) and 'Sulphureum (on right).  Notice 'Neosulphureum' has shorter spurs and lighter color.  Interesting too, is that many (but not all) flower stalks on 'Sulphureum' have a cauline set of leaflets, there are other plant differences too.

Wim - surprised to see E. grandiflorum 'Spring Wedding', one that Darrell Probst introduced in 2003; I guess it has already "jumped the pond".  Your plant shows flowers that look darker violet than how they appear here.  I upload a few pics for comparison.

Jamie - I wonder if your 'Enchantment' could actually be 'Enchantress', a hybrid from Washfield Nursery by Elizabeth Strangman, a cross of E. dolichostemon x leptorrhizum.  You caught a good photo... my plant is situated such that getting a decent photo has thus far eluded me; it is a good, low growing plant.  The E. grandiflorum 'Chris Norton' is new to me... googled the name and it seems to be available in some Danish and German nurseries; I wonder what its origin is?  Also have seen the name listed as Chriss Norton with the double "s" ???  And 'Amber Queen'... this one just goes to show what PLANT LUST can do to an Epimaniac like me... with as many epimediums that I have, I don't have that one... and it is so gorgeous I WANT IT BADLY ;D  What a stunner it is.

The last photo shows a lone self-sown Epimedium seedling, isn't it as cute as a button :o

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Katrin Lugerbauer on April 27, 2010, 05:20:47 PM
What 'Amber Queen' is for you, that is your 'Domino' (and many others!) for me  :P  :D.

1. E. 'Asiatic Hybrid' (a bit different to others with this name)
2. E. spec. (does anyone know it?)
3. E. grandiflorum 'Chris Norton'
4. E. fargesii
5. E. grandiflorum var. koreanum
6. E. 'Jörg'

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 27, 2010, 05:54:28 PM
Mark,

E. grandiflorum 'Spring Wedding' comes from a nursery in Belgium which bought it directly from Probst. The colour on the photo is true. Yours looks a bit paler indeed.

Here's another one, flowering here for the first time:

E. x youngianum 'Tamabotan'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 27, 2010, 07:38:42 PM
What 'Amber Queen' is for you, that is your 'Domino' (and many others!) for me  :P  :D.

1. E. 'Asiatic Hybrid' (a bit different to others with this name)
2. E. spec. (does anyone know it?)
3. E. grandiflorum 'Chris Norton'
4. E. fargesii
5. E. grandiflorum var. koreanum
6. E. 'Jörg'


Katrin, thanks for posting those photos, it is most interesting to see what is being grown in other parts of the world, and I see that 'Chris Norton' is evidently a popular one in Europe, a good color form of grandiflorum to be sure.

It is interesting about this thing called Asiatic Hybrid; note that it should use double quote marks instead of single ones, because it is not a single cultivar per se.  Apparently Washfield Nursery in England sold various mixed seedlings of Asian parentage under the "catch-all" name of "Asiatic Hybrid".  So, if you see photos showing completely different plants as 'Asiatic Hybrid', just think of these as various anonymous hybrids, with an unfortuante umbrella name for them all; the naming convention certainly not the best of horticultural practices.  Darrell Probst got one of these hybrids from Dan Hinkley, and so the one being distributed here in the USA looks different; a first class plant with lovely foliage in shades of olive tan and mocha, eventually becoming a burnished red-brown overlay on green, with slender spires of bloom above the foliage in palest pink and with ruddy pink cups.  It blooms for a very long time.  I include a few photos of one such "Asiatic Hybrid", as grown in the USA.

I don't know what your unknown species is... or could it be a hybrid?

Regarding E. fargesii, I don't know the extent of variability of that species, it looks very different to the single clone I'm growing (see previous SRGC page for a pic), but at first glance I thought your plant looked like E. dolichostemon, with the small red center with short curved spurs.

Regarding E. grandiflorum var. koreanum, the taxonomy changed in 2002 by William T. Stearn.  Most plants going around as E. grandiflorum var. koreanum are actually E. grandiflorum forma flavescens.  The true E. koreanum was recognized in 2002, and is also pale yellow flowered, but a species that spreads strongly by rhizome and has huge leaves.  Your plant looks like E. grandiflorum f. flavescens, a clumping species without long spreading rhizomes, but is a clumping species, with small, narrower more angular leaves.  Darrell Probst has offered at various times 9-10 different forms of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens, and 2 forms of E. koreanum, all of which I grow for comparison purposes.  I uploaded 3 photos of E. koreanum 'La Rocaille', this cultivar has huge (for an epimedium) light yellow flowers that when they first emerge are held on naked red stems, later the cauline leaves expand into a dense canopy.  The autumn view shows the bright yellow-orange fall color and the very large rounded leaves.

Do you have any more information on E. 'Jörg', another one I have not heard of before.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: shelagh on April 27, 2010, 08:33:04 PM
Mark you were quite right regarding Ep. sulphureum being Ep. davidii as my husband (the gardener) spotted as soon as I ran the pictures through for him.  We used to have sulphureum but last year he split a huge davidii and put that in the same spot.  Ah me you can't get the staff you know ::)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 27, 2010, 08:39:11 PM
Mark,

E. grandiflorum 'Spring Wedding' comes from a nursery in Belgium which bought it directly from Probst. The colour on the photo is true. Yours looks a bit paler indeed.

Here's another one, flowering here for the first time:

E. x youngianum 'Tamabotan'

Wim, my E. grandiflorum 'Spring Wedding' starts out with pale lilac sepals and white petals, then fading to a near white with just a hint of lilac.

It is interesting to watch these plants as they mature into much larger clumps, as what may seem like a very small cultivar can in time get large, so it can be easy to plant them too close together.  I had previously posted two photos of a young flowering plant of E. x youngianum 'Tamaboton' taken a few years back, a cute thing. I love the open slightly crinkled blooms, which are surprisingly large in size.  My plant has matured, and I've been photographing it over the last several weeks, from first emergence to start of flowering (now), and this one gets comparitively big, currently 13" x 20" (32.5 x 50 cm).  It has also shown, as a mature plant, very deep dark foliage coloration.

There are a couple other E. x youngianum cultivars with these odd frilly open cup-like blooms, these too have gotten large, much larger than even 'Tamabotan'.  

1 - 2   E. x youngianum 'Beni-kujaku', similar to 'Tamabotan', but not so dark-leaved, and brighter reddish-pink flowers.
3        E. x youngianum 'Kozakura' - one of several types where the sepals are deciduous leaving only the single cup-like petals.  Small white
            flowers tinged with dull purple, partially hidden by the foliage.  Grown to 30" across (75 cm)!  Of marginal interest.
4.       E. x youngianum 'Fukurasuzume' - the tallest youngianum, and the ugliest.  Weird, flimsy, dirty whitish flowers... at least the plant has
            the decency to hide the ugly flowers under foliage.  Almost every other youngianum cultivar is MUCH better.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Katrin Lugerbauer on April 28, 2010, 12:50:40 PM
Mark, thanks for your answer. 'Chris Norton' is one of the Epimediums which grow very good in even dryier conditions.

I didn't know about the difference of using ' and ", thanks a lot. Some nurseries in Europe gave numbers to their "Asiatic Hybrids", but I think there are many different plants in cultivation. Your plant is a bit more exciting I think, because it's new to me  ;).

The unknown species I got from a plantsman who doesn't know its real name. It's a beautiful plant tough and very rich flowering. It could be a hybrid of course, but I don't know it.

I bought the E. fargesii in GB last summer. I've never seen E. dolichostemon in real and unfortunately I don't know where to get it from. It's a great plant too and I would really like to campare it with my E. fargesii. But you are right, on some pictures this species has not that curved spurs like my plant, on other pics it looks the same. Confusion everywhere  ::). I'm looking forward to get 'Pink Constellation', so that I can compare them.

You mention William T. Stearn. His book is really great, but no longer available in Europe (only to very high prices). I'm afraid I've to order it overseas. I've got E. koreanum itself (no flowers this year) and E. koreanum 'La Rocaille'. They are a bit taller than my plant of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens (I've never seen this name here. This plant is, even when available, called E. grandiflorum var. koreanum). I never payed attention on it in autumn, but I will do it this year!

E. 'Jörg' is a chance seedling in the garden of a german plant collector. It was given to Christian Kreß (Sarastro Nursery) and he propagated it. It has tiny flowers in comparison to other epimediums but an excellent dark foliage when coming out in spring. It is very unknown till yet, I got one of the first plants at Sarastros.

1.+2: E. 'Flowers of Sulphur'
3. E. 'Togen'
4. E. koreanum 'La Rocaille'
5. E. 'Pink Elf'
6.+7. E. 'Fire Dragon'
8. E. grandiflorum

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 28, 2010, 01:17:08 PM
Great to have you posting again, Katrin.
So many great photos and information...
It seems that there is something of an EPPI-demic going on at the minute.... ::) ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 28, 2010, 02:50:59 PM
Katrin, your post reminds why it is so fun participating in this forum... some plants you're growing are unfamiliar to me and it has me scrambling to do google searches to learn more about them.

Looked up E. 'Flowers of Sulphur', it is a hybrid of flavum and ogisui.  Not sure if it is available here in the USA.  The foliage seen in the link below shows it has really bright foliage.
http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-Flowers-of-Sulphur-20p9125.htm#details

Regarding 'Togen', another I am unfamiliar with, I found the following info and link, appears that it is a form of E. leptorrhizum:
Epimedium leptorrhizum 'Togen'
Barry Yinger at his Asiatica nursery says "We received this beautiful plant in Japan as a hybrid cultivar, but Darrell Probst believes it is E. leptorrhizum"
http://www.asiaticanursery.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=1211

On E. koreanum 'La Rocaille', I believe it is correctly called E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille', consistent with the W.T.Stearn taxonomic clarification between E. grandiflorum f. flavescens and true E. koreanum.  This is one of the very first epimediums I purchased back in 1976 or 1977, under the koreanum name, and I still have it, even surviving two cross-country home moves back in the 1980s.  It makes a gorgeous clump, it is not an aggressive runner as E. koreanum is.  Some of the hybrids from this one are quite interesting.

'Pink Elf' - ooohhh, this is a "must get" cutie, and I find it available in the USA from Plant Delights Nursery (some bartering is in order ;D).
Epimedium 'Pink Elf', a Robin White hybrid derived from E. leptorrhizum x E. pubescens

'Fire Dragon' is another "must get" - love those pink and yellow candy flowers. :o :o 

The Plant Delights Nursery - Epimedium Page, shows some great looking newer selections, take a look.  In particular, look at Epimedium 'Yokihi', a cross between E. davidii x E. grandiflorum 'Yubae'.  Shouldn't be too hard to create a plant like that, I have E. davidii "Wolong Selections" growing next to E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen', and have been dabbing pollen onto davidii ;D
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/page25.html
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 28, 2010, 03:58:58 PM
 :D :D :D

Today there was a plant named after me by a local nursery-woman, so I'm really happy to present:

Epimedium 'Wim Boens' (it feels really weird to have a plant named after you)

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It is a selected seedling with as probable parentage E. wushanense davidii and E. rhizomatosum. It is a very good grower with evergreen foliage and very fine flowers. They go for sale tomorrow.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Arykana on April 28, 2010, 04:07:28 PM
of course you are happy! I would............. ::)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Gail on April 28, 2010, 04:08:51 PM
Congratulations Wim - it's a lovely one!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 28, 2010, 04:32:03 PM
Thinking about hybridizing epimediums, I pulled some images together. There is so much potential in certain species and cultivars, that it fires the imagination. Seeing what some of the hybrids look like compared to theior parents, gives clues and ideas about what to strive for.  Here are a few that I'm working with.

1-4  E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen' - the granddaddy of grandiflorums, a giant plant that grows much larger than reported.  Just went out and measured it, currently 30" tall x 44" wide (75 x 110 cm), yowsa!  The dense foliar sheath lifts its skirt high enough to see the bounty of rosy-red flowers which last for weeks.

5    E. davidii "Wolong Selections" - variable forms found and introduced by Darrell Probst, from Wolong, China.  Mine is a young plant; has attractive small spiny-edged foliage, and good-sized bright flowers, much pollen dabbing going on here.

6    E. x 'Domino' - another view of this fantastic introduction by Darrell Probst, with the previous mentioned E. davidii off to the left. Gorgeous plant form and flowers, with significant flower power, flowers produced *above* the foliage, seems like an excellent starting point.

7-8  E. brevicornu - has already revealed itself to be a willing parent, imparting boldly colored foliage and good form.  While the flowers are tiny, they are so abundant and clearly presented *above* the foliage, that it makes a grand show in the garden, among the earliest to flower and continuing for up to 2 months!  Established plants make large bold clumps.  Also shown here is a young plant with a smaller bounty of flowers... again, lots of pollen dabbing going on.

9-10  View of Epimedium bed full of hybrid seedlings flowers (3 year old bed).  In the center of the photo 9 is a small yellow and white flowered hybrid between E. brevicornu with E. membranaceum. In photo 10, there's a E. davidii hybrid, with rather small hot pink and yellow flowers.  This year, many of these hybrids are being planted out to see what they look like as established clumps.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 28, 2010, 04:37:30 PM
How exciting, Wim, what an honour for you!  8)

Does this nursery do mail order and accept paypal??!  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 28, 2010, 04:40:45 PM
Epi fans.... a Forumist has been honoured by the naming for him of a new Epimedium .... see this message for pix of E. 'Wim Boens' ....
www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2645.msg150009#msg150009     8) :) :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 28, 2010, 04:45:21 PM
Thanks All,

@ Maggi: its' really a big honour... I think I'm maybe a bit young to have a plant named for me but I happily accepted.

The nursery is "Epimedium" in Belgium. She will start mail-order next Autumn. This is the link to her website: http://www.epimedium.be/ (for the moment only in Dutch and French but it will be in English next Autumn also). You can contact her in Dutch, French, English or German.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: shelagh on April 28, 2010, 04:59:51 PM
Katrin thanks for the picture of Pink Elf.  We were given a plant of that but it never thrived and so I haven't seen it in flower before.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 28, 2010, 05:23:00 PM
Congratulations Wim!  Fine looking plant.  Regarding parentage, I would not have guessed either rhizomatosum or wushanense; based on the shape of the flower and prominent red sepals, I would've guessed E. davidii or possibly E. flavum as one of the parents.  Do you grow either of those two, for that to be a possibility?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 28, 2010, 06:12:35 PM
Congratulations Wim!  Fine looking plant.  Regarding parentage, I would not have guessed either rhizomatosum or wushanense; based on the shape of the flower and prominent red sepals, I would've guessed E. davidii or possibly E. flavum as one of the parents.  Do you grow either of those two, for that to be a possibility?

Thanks, Mark. Parentage is not sure... I'll call Daniëlle from "Epimedium" tomorrow to ask her what she thinks and I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 28, 2010, 07:38:30 PM
Mark: I've called her now and she had explained it wrongly: it is certainly: rhizomatosum x davidii.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on April 28, 2010, 09:47:53 PM
Wim, you are very pretty!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 28, 2010, 09:49:24 PM
Wim, you are very pretty!

 ;)  ;D Thanks
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 28, 2010, 10:00:53 PM
Well done Wim, such a lovely plant to have named for you.  8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 01:07:23 AM
Mark: I've called her now and she had explained it wrongly: it is certainly: rhizomatosum x davidii.

Thanks for the follow-up Wim, I thought the plant looked rather davidii-esque :D  Does the hybrid show any spreading rhizomatous tendencies?  I have often wondered when a spreading species gets together with a small clumping species, just how variable is the growth pattern.  Does the new foliage get any strong red/yellow mottling?  The reason I ask, I've had a few self-sown seedlings of rhizomatosum, and so far all show the strong red/yellow mottling.  Your plant looks closer to davidii, so maybe it is the other way around; davidii x rhizomatosum?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 29, 2010, 09:58:59 AM
Mark: I've called her now and she had explained it wrongly: it is certainly: rhizomatosum x davidii.

Thanks for the follow-up Wim, I thought the plant looked rather davidii-esque :D  Does the hybrid show any spreading rhizomatous tendencies?  I have often wondered when a spreading species gets together with a small clumping species, just how variable is the growth pattern.  Does the new foliage get any strong red/yellow mottling?  The reason I ask, I've had a few self-sown seedlings of rhizomatosum, and so far all show the strong red/yellow mottling.  Your plant looks closer to davidii, so maybe it is the other way around; davidii x rhizomatosum?

Mark,

he is rhizomatous so he spreads more than E. davidii although not as vigorous as E. rhizomatosum. The hybrid is easier to grow and to propagate than E. davidii.
The flower-petals are not as broadly rounded as E. davidii and they are longer, the sepals are a good dark red and the spurs are long and they all turn almost straight up after a while.
The spines on the leaflet margins and the over all form of the leaf is a lot more like E. rhizomatosum than like E. davidii.

It might be davidii x rhizomatosum indeed.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 12:04:18 PM

Mark,

he is rhizomatous so he spreads more than E. davidii although not as vigorous as E. rhizomatosum. The hybrid is easier to grow and to propagate than E. davidii.
The flower-petals are not as broadly rounded as E. davidii and they are longer, the sepals are a good dark red and the spurs are long and they all turn almost straight up after a while.
The spines on the leaflet margins and the over all form of the leaf is a lot more like E. rhizomatosum than like E. davidii.

It might be davidii x rhizomatosum indeed.


Wim, thanks for for the details, having a davidii-like hybrid plant that actually spreads should be a good attribute, as the species is too slow a grower, that's what I was hoping to hear. I was pursuing this info, as I'm interested in details about such crosses, as I'm now actively attempting a whole regimen of Epi hybridization.  By the way, the leaves on E. davidii "Wolong Selections", one that Darrell Probst introduced, has very spiny leaf margins, although the leaf shape is a rather narrow shield shape.... see my recent Epimedium posting... it's a cutie. 

I believe your hybrid with its full boxy yellow flowers and red sepals, and fine spine-edged leaflets, will be a popular one!  When will it be available in the USA? ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 29, 2010, 12:49:10 PM

Mark,

he is rhizomatous so he spreads more than E. davidii although not as vigorous as E. rhizomatosum. The hybrid is easier to grow and to propagate than E. davidii.
The flower-petals are not as broadly rounded as E. davidii and they are longer, the sepals are a good dark red and the spurs are long and they all turn almost straight up after a while.
The spines on the leaflet margins and the over all form of the leaf is a lot more like E. rhizomatosum than like E. davidii.

It might be davidii x rhizomatosum indeed.


Wim, thanks for for the details, having a davidii-like hybrid plant that actually spreads should be a good attribute, as the species is too slow a grower, that's what I was hoping to hear. I was pursuing this info, as I'm interested in details about such crosses, as I'm now actively attempting a whole regimen of Epi hybridization.  By the way, the leaves on E. davidii "Wolong Selections", one that Darrell Probst introduced, has very spiny leaf margins, although the leaf shape is a rather narrow shield shape.... see my recent Epimedium posting... it's a cutie. 

I believe your hybrid with its full boxy yellow flowers and red sepals, and fine spine-edged leaflets, will be a popular one!  When will it be available in the USA? ;D

Mark,

you're welcome. I've seen Wolong in real life too and the leaves are smaller indeed. It's a very nice form.

In trial, Epimedium 'W.B.' gave, after planting a full P9 pot out in the field, 50 good divisions after 2 years; so it's a good grower.

Availibility is limited for the moment since it's a small nursery which propagates it... so it might take some time (more like forever, I guess) before they leave Europe  ;)  ;D I would send you one if it wasn't so hard to export plants to the US.

Be sure to show the results of your hybridization here too. I'm really interested... are there particular hybrids you're trying to create?

Wim
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on April 29, 2010, 01:19:23 PM
here is another pic from my 'poor' Epimedium collection :

Epimedium grandiflora 'Sunset'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 01:47:34 PM
here is another pic from my 'poor' Epimedium collection :

Epimedium grandiflora 'Sunset'

Hans, what can you tell us about E. grandiflorum 'Sunset', I can't find any reference to a cultivar of grandiflorum by that name.  A google search does find a couple lists of epimediums with just Epimedium 'Sunset', but without any description of the plant or species attribution.  The flowers in your photo look like one of the similar "red" flowered grandiflorums, such 'Red Queen' (that I recenly posted above), 'Orion', or 'Yubae (synonyms 'Crimson', 'Crimson Beauty', 'Rose Queen').
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 01:54:30 PM
Many will be familiar with the tried and true E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum', or the somewhat less common 'Neosulphureum', both indispensible for the woodland garden.  But there are a couple more recent versicolor cultivars, 'Strawberry Blush' introduced by Darrell Probst in 2004, and 'Cherry Tart', a hybrid seedling found a garden in Virginia and introduced by Darrell in 1999.  Also featured in this post is a recent E. x youngianum cultivar named 'Royal Flush', yet another Darrell Probst introduction (2004).

1.  E. x versicolor 'Strawberry Blush' -  The first photo shows how the flowers are displayed in a nodding disposition, which is too bad because it is the front face of the flowers that reveal their charm.  The sepal color is described as "antique pink", and appear pinkish in a color photograph in the Garden Vision Epimediums catalog.  However, as I've grown it, the back of the ample sepals are a pale bisque yellow color with only a faint pink tinge.

2.  Lifting up the flowers shows the sepals to be veined pink on the inside, sporting a large yellow cup and pink spurs, delightful, if only the flowers would hold themselves up.

3-4 Two low-angle views where the bright yellow cups can be seen.  In both photos, the lilac flowers are E. x youngianum 'Royal Flush'.

5   Another view of both epimediums from above, showing the late-to-expand leaves on 'Strawberry Blush' which are bronze-toned. This cultivar is a strong grower.

6-7 E. x versicolor 'Cherry Tart' - the better of the two, with more upright panicles of striking pink flowers, individual flowers held in tilted semi-nodding disposition, revealing hot pink spurs and a cup that shades to a bright yellow rim.  The inside of the sepals are finely veined with deeper pink.  So far, seems to be a slower grower than 'Strawberry Blush'.

8   E. x youngianum 'Royal Flush' - sizzling HOT spring foliage color!

9   E. x youngianum 'Royal Flush' (top) showing the dark copper foliage and classic form lilac bloom, with E. grandiflorum 'White Queen' in front.

10  E. x youngianum 'Royal Flush' - profile file.  I consider this to be among the finest of youngianum types, making a large full mound of beautiful heart-shaped leaves, with elegant flowers well presented just above the foliage.  It is reminscent of E. grandiforum var. violaceum 'Bronze Maiden', which can be seen in the upper left corner.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on April 29, 2010, 02:00:48 PM
here is another pic from my 'poor' Epimedium collection :

Epimedium grandiflora 'Sunset'

Hans, what can you tell us about E. grandiflorum 'Sunset', I can't find any reference to a cultivar of grandiflorum by that name.  A google search does find a couple lists of epimediums with just Epimedium 'Sunset', but without any description of the plant or species attribution.  The flowers in your photo look like one of the similar "red" flowered grandiflorums, such 'Red Queen' (that I recenly posted above), 'Orion', or 'Yubae (synonyms 'Crimson', 'Crimson Beauty', 'Rose Queen').

Mark ,

this cultivar is listet in the book of Stearn...
there is written :
"Darrell Probst regards this nearly identical to 'Rose Queen' and is in fact probably the same clone"

I hope this you a bit
Hans
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 02:09:15 PM
here is another pic from my 'poor' Epimedium collection :

Epimedium grandiflora 'Sunset'

Hans, what can you tell us about E. grandiflorum 'Sunset', I can't find any reference to a cultivar of grandiflorum by that name.  A google search does find a couple lists of epimediums with just Epimedium 'Sunset', but without any description of the plant or species attribution.  The flowers in your photo look like one of the similar "red" flowered grandiflorums, such 'Red Queen' (that I recenly posted above), 'Orion', or 'Yubae (synonyms 'Crimson', 'Crimson Beauty', 'Rose Queen').

Mark ,

this cultivar is listet in the book of Stearn...
there is written :
"Darrell Probst regards this nearly identical to 'Rose Queen' and is in fact probably the ame clone"

I hope this you a bit
Hans

Ah, thanks Hans.  Darrell Probst has gone to considerable lengths to straighten out the name confusion, and he regards 'Rose Queen' to be E. grandiflorum 'Yubae'.  There's more to the story, but it gets confusing. 

E. grandiflorum 'Yubae' has white spur tips, as in your photo.  My plant is in flower, so I'll try and get a closeup view of the flowers and post here.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 02:26:23 PM

I would send you one if it wasn't so hard to export plants to the US.


I have both species, I can try recreating the hybrid ;D


Be sure to show the results of your hybridization here too. I'm really interested... are there particular hybrids you're trying to create?

Wim

Wim, I do indeed have definite goals.  Broadly speaking, hybrids with flowers well presented above the foliage and long season of bloom (brevicornu is prime candidate), hybrids with true flower-power, those with richly colored foliage (many of the sempervirens types, versicolor types, grandiflorums with exceptional foliage like Dark Beauty, many of the asian species), everblooming hybrids, reliably evergreen hybrids (some sempervirens forms again), and rich or unusual flower colors, many of which are already coming onto the scene.  I have very specific goals, within each of those broad ideas.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 29, 2010, 02:32:46 PM
One which is flowering here now:

E. grandiflorum var. higoense 'Saturn'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 29, 2010, 02:46:44 PM
Wim, I do indeed have definite goals.  Broadly speaking, hybrids with flowers well presented above the foliage and long season of bloom (brevicornu is prime candidate), hybrids with true flower-power, those with richly colored foliage (many of the sempervirens types, versicolor types, grandiflorums with exceptional foliage like Dark Beauty, many of the asian species), everblooming hybrids, reliably evergreen hybrids (some sempervirens forms again), and rich or unusual flower colors, many of which are already coming onto the scene.  I have very specific goals, within each of those broad ideas.

Those are very good goals. If you can combine that all in one hybrid that would be like 'a theory of everything' for Epi's...  :) :D
I'm really interested in the ones with unusual flower colours, could you give me some examples (or are there pictures of some already on the Epi-page?)
The ones with special foliage are also very nice....'Dark Beauty' is a real stunner, not yet available in Europe, or I haven't found it yet...

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 03:50:32 PM

Those are very good goals. If you can combine that all in one hybrid that would be like 'a theory of everything' for Epi's...  :) :D
I'm really interested in the ones with unusual flower colours, could you give me some examples (or are there pictures of some already on the Epi-page?)
The ones with special foliage are also very nice....'Dark Beauty' is a real stunner, not yet available in Europe, or I haven't found it yet...


Colorful flowers; let's see... those bright red and yellow, or pink and yellow ones, like 'Flame Thrower' (Probst 2009) a large spider-flower of cherry red and yellow, 'Pink Champange' an inverse color scheme in shades of raspberry and white (Probst 2007), to see that one is to want it (but it is EXPENSIVE), 'Windfire' (Probst 2007) which looks somewhat similar to your hybrid, yellow with red sepals (purchased this one last year, it's in bud now), 'Domino' with hard-to-describe white and pink flowers in profusion, omiense 'Akane' (should be available in UK), good red and yellow one, x 'Anamogawa', with elegant reflexed white sepals and a large squat open cup of brownish orange and yellow spurs (I'll post photos tonight, in the Epimedium thread), many others.  Darrell has so many unbelievable hybrids in his trial beds, some with enormous caramel colored flowers... to die for.

I'd like to recreate the orange color, like x warleyense, although that one appears sterile, but 'Orangekonigin' does produce pollen.

'Dark Beauty' produces hybrids in a wide range of coffee and caramel toned leaves.  It'll be interesting to see if the second flushes of foliage are as bright on the hybrids as with Dark Beauty itself.  The wide brown rim on leaves of E. grandiflorum var. higoense 'Bandit' is easily transfered to its progeny, as you've seen in Spring Wedding.  Just salvaged a hybrid seedling of E. sempervirens 'Aurora' that was been overgrown by a hydrangea, it is a huge beast with remarkable red foliage but pallid lavender flowers... but the various sempervirens forms could produce plants with such fantastically colored glossy foliage that they'd be worth growing for the foliage alone.

While "I'm so happy" discussing this, maybe the start of this Epimedium portion of this thread should get moved to Epimedium 2010.edit by maggi: that has now been done!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: arisaema on April 29, 2010, 03:56:51 PM
I only grow a few species, but I'd be curious to know if there are any species or hybrids that keep their "spring marbling" (see pic) thru most of the summer? (And congratulations, Wim! :D)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 29, 2010, 04:41:47 PM
There were several posts on the "Yes! I'm so happy..." thread that referred to Epimediums in the wake of Wim Boens having one named after him......I've moved them here, they have this title :   YES!!! The "I'm so happy" about this Epimedium thread !  ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2010, 05:58:52 PM
Two pics of a 3-year old hybrid seedling from Epimedium grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille', selected for it's deeper color yellow flowers than normal; foliage nicely bronzed as well, and the familiar red stems showing off well.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 29, 2010, 09:50:36 PM
Hans your 'Sunset' is of a colour to delight any shepherd or sailor :D (Red sky at night.....)

It seems to me that there are so many named hybrids now and so many synonyms for those hybrids that the situation will become, if it has not already, hopelessly mixed up and impossible to untangle in a short time. While I love all these beautiful plants on the Forum and wish I had many more of them, it has to be said that very many are extremely similar to very many others. Not QUITE as bad as Galanthus, but..... ???
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 30, 2010, 01:44:54 AM

It seems to me that there are so many named hybrids now and so many synonyms for those hybrids that the situation will become, if it has not already, hopelessly mixed up and impossible to untangle in a short time. While I love all these beautiful plants on the Forum and wish I had many more of them, it has to be said that very many are extremely similar to very many others. Not QUITE as bad as Galanthus, but..... ???

I do believe that Darrell Probst has been instrumental in clearing up much of the confusion, and relatively speaking, there isn't all that much confusion in the total scheme of Epimedium things, just a very small percentage.  Some confusion came from early days where people brought back named Japanese cultivars, with the cultivar name written in Japanese characters, so new names where invented in the USA, or in the UK, or both, for such plants.  This is the case with the numerous synonyms - 'Rose Queen', 'Sunset', 'Crimson Beauty'... all of which are actually the original Japanese named E. grandiflorum 'Yubae'.

The problem I'm seeing today, is that a nursery will find a self-sown seedling, and since most self-sown seedlings will be hybrids, they give their single garden hybrid a name!  They do not have a collection of 200 or so named cultivars with which to compare, they just willy-nilly give it a name.  Sure, it's a little bit different, it is probably a nice plant (aren't all epimedium nice plants?) but it might not be sufficiently different to warrant a name.  There is a nursery here in the USA that recently announced two new Epimedium hybrids, and they are completely unremarkable look-alikes for existing species or cultivars.  I wrote to them about their new offerings a couple of times, but never heard back.  Yet, with so many new species becoming available, the gene-pool is becoming larger and richer, and many new exotic and remarkable hybrids (distinctive ones at that) have already started to appear, or are forthcoming.

It is a luxury I suppose, to be so close to what I call the Epicenter of Epimedium, with Garden Vision Nursery a short drive from my home, to see all of the cultivars (certified/verified cultivars) in one spot, and have the opportunity to purchase most of them.  Once one has nearly every grandiflorum, youngianum, diphyllum, sempervirens, and versicolor cultivar available in the USA, and most species, it becomes an essential benchmark to compare new hybrid seedlings against, to make sure anything that might be introduced is truly something new, worthwhile, and not just a look-alike.  Few people have such a resource; this is true of many genera, the reason why the issue of look-alike hybrids can and does happen in many plant genera.  I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of self-sown hybrids, and have gathered them up, marking them as to which plant they were found under, and have been observing the results these last 5 years... VERY INTERESTING to be sure.  But it raises a clear point, that deliberate hybridization, with intended goals, is critical to end up with new extraordinary plants.

Well, at least it's not as bad as overly popular overly bred genera such as Hosta and Hemerocallis (and of course Galanthus... I agree with you there Lesley :o :P :-X), the genus Epimedium is only getting started.

Oh... I should mention too, that there are important building blocks to hybridization that have lots to do with growth characteristics, such as Wim's recent hybrid named after him.  I have 5 forms of E. davidii, and all so far, have been recalcitrant, barely expanding plants... not sure why they just sit there and never bulk up, when most Epimediums are strong growers.  So, to have a hybrid between a strong yellow-flowered grower like E. rhizomatosum, and the recalcitrant E. davidii, that bridges that gap and creates a strong grower bringing forward some of the E. davidii characteristics, is a very important and significant building block, for garden-worthy strong-growing yellow eppies.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 30, 2010, 08:26:54 AM

Those are very good goals. If you can combine that all in one hybrid that would be like 'a theory of everything' for Epi's...  :) :D
I'm really interested in the ones with unusual flower colours, could you give me some examples (or are there pictures of some already on the Epi-page?)
The ones with special foliage are also very nice....'Dark Beauty' is a real stunner, not yet available in Europe, or I haven't found it yet...


Colorful flowers; let's see... those bright red and yellow, or pink and yellow ones, like 'Flame Thrower' (Probst 2009) a large spider-flower of cherry red and yellow, 'Pink Champange' an inverse color scheme in shades of raspberry and white (Probst 2007), to see that one is to want it (but it is EXPENSIVE), 'Windfire' (Probst 2007) which looks somewhat similar to your hybrid, yellow with red sepals (purchased this one last year, it's in bud now), 'Domino' with hard-to-describe white and pink flowers in profusion, omiense 'Akane' (should be available in UK), good red and yellow one, x 'Anamogawa', with elegant reflexed white sepals and a large squat open cup of brownish orange and yellow spurs (I'll post photos tonight, in the Epimedium thread), many others.  Darrell has so many unbelievable hybrids in his trial beds, some with enormous caramel colored flowers... to die for.

I'd like to recreate the orange color, like x warleyense, although that one appears sterile, but 'Orangekonigin' does produce pollen.

'Dark Beauty' produces hybrids in a wide range of coffee and caramel toned leaves.  It'll be interesting to see if the second flushes of foliage are as bright on the hybrids as with Dark Beauty itself.  The wide brown rim on leaves of E. grandiflorum var. higoense 'Bandit' is easily transfered to its progeny, as you've seen in Spring Wedding.  Just salvaged a hybrid seedling of E. sempervirens 'Aurora' that was been overgrown by a hydrangea, it is a huge beast with remarkable red foliage but pallid lavender flowers... but the various sempervirens forms could produce plants with such fantastically colored glossy foliage that they'd be worth growing for the foliage alone.

While "I'm so happy" discussing this, maybe the start of this Epimedium portion of this thread should get moved to Epimedium 2010.

Mark,

I've seen Pink Champagne, Domino, omeiense 'Akane' and x 'Amamogawa' in reality already (there are a few (I know of two) very dedicated nurseries in Belgium which order a lot from Probst)  but I hadn't heard about Flame Thrower and Windfire. So if you have some pics of them I would like it very much to see them.

You are indeed very lucky to live near to Garden Vision, it must be great to be able to walk between his trial-beds.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 30, 2010, 11:58:17 AM
I've seen Pink Champagne, Domino, omeiense 'Akane' and x 'Amamogawa' in reality already (there are a few (I know of two) very dedicated nurseries in Belgium which order a lot from Probst)  but I hadn't heard about Flame Thrower and Windfire. So if you have some pics of them I would like it very much to see them.

You are indeed very lucky to live near to Garden Vision, it must be great to be able to walk between his trial-beds.


Sure thing.  That's one reason I'm posting extensively here in this forum, showing the flowers, but more importantly, the whole plant aspect of as many species and cultivars as I can.  In a week or so Windfire should be in bloom... only got it last year so it is still small.  I'll have to take pictures of Flame Thrower at the nursery, when I attend one or two of the Open Nursery weekend days they do in mid May... coming soon.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 30, 2010, 04:35:59 PM
A miscellany of epimediums today:

1.   E. fangii - hardy form.  A rhizomatous spreading species, so I will be moving this one to a place where it can spread. Bronzy spring foliage, yellow flowers with sepals shading to white.

2.   E. fargesii - evergreen basal foliage and tan-bronze new foliage, reflexed white star flowers with small purple petals.

3.   Epimedium hybrid with 'Dark Beauty', showing gold spring leaf coloring.

4.   E. sempervirens 'Mars'- erect red stems and dense clusters of rose-red flowers, which (unfortunately) quickly become concealed under a "shield" of shiny green red-edged leaves.  Makes a tall bold clump.

5.   E. sempervirens 'Mars'- looking "under the skirt :o" to see the flowers, and lots of cute eppie babies below.

6-7. E. x 'Amanogawa'- hybrid of E. acuminatum x dolichostemon, spring mottled foliage, and lovely upright panicles of reflexed white flowers accented with a dark center, brownish-orange cup shading  to yellow spurs.

8.   E. grandiflorum var. higoense 'Bandit' - deservedly popular, having small leaflets edged in brown-purple, and abundant white flowers.

9.   E. grandiflorum 'Sirius' (originally offered as 'Epstein's Salmon') - a pretty plant with soft foliage and pastel pink flowers shading to a salmon pink at the base of the sepals, a fairly unique color.

10.  E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' - WOW for the foliage display, almost looks like waxed plastic.  Even in summer after the leaves turn shiny green, there is always new foliage sprouting forth in hot pink and red candy colors.  Fairly good flowers of palest lilac, but this one is grown for the foliage.  Fantastic.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on April 30, 2010, 05:33:46 PM
8.   E. grandiflorum var. higoense 'Bandit' - deservedly popular, having small leaflets edged in brown-purple, and abundant white flowers.

I always fail to see the difference between 'Bandit' and 'Saturn'. Do you know how I could easily see the difference?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 30, 2010, 08:44:38 PM
8.   E. grandiflorum var. higoense 'Bandit' - deservedly popular, having small leaflets edged in brown-purple, and abundant white flowers.

I always fail to see the difference between 'Bandit' and 'Saturn'. Do you know how I could easily see the difference?

My plant of 'Bandit' is in full flower, and 10 meters away 'Saturn' is just emerging, still with tiny leaves and a few partially opened flowers.  I can photograph 'Saturn' in a few days to a week, so the comparison can be made.  I believe that 'Saturn' has thinner less pronounced leaf banding, whereas the dark band on 'Bandit' is stongly pronounced and more dramatic.

Bandit is also a bigger plant, about 6" (15 cm) in flower, with a tall second flush of foliage, whereas Saturn is shorter in flower and much more modest shorter second flush of foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 30, 2010, 08:54:40 PM
Just a quick post, a new Epimedium flowering for me, E. qingchengshunense, a recently described species, like a smaller E. fargesii.  I have tried in vain to photograph the delicate little flowers, but there's not enough of them yet... no mass to focus on, all I get are terrible photos.  This whole-plant photo isn't too bad, so here it is.  The dark purple outer sepals and spurs show off the white flowers well.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on April 30, 2010, 09:45:33 PM
I posted a picture of this epimedium elsewhere, its flowers are small and insignificant, but the foliage is so interesting: Epimedium lishihchenii
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 30, 2010, 10:10:23 PM
John Jearrard grows a lot of Epis.......

http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimedium.html
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 30, 2010, 11:25:30 PM
I posted a picture of this epimedium elsewhere, its flowers are small and insignificant, but the foliage is so interesting: Epimedium lishihchenii

Chris, beautiful mottled foliage, but I'm afraid your plant is not E. lishihchenii.  The real E. lishihchenii has bold textured (rugose) leaves which are chartreuse green in spring and not mottled, and very large yellow spidery blooms; I was hybridizing with it today.  Here are three photos:

1.  E. lishihchenii - spring foliage above base of evergreen leaves, large claw-like yellow blooms.
2.  detail view of the flowers
3.  glossy, rugose, thick-textured leathery winter foliage

I'm not entirely sure what species or cultivar you do have, there are a number of these richly mottled asian species that are VERY expensive to buy, so there are a number of them I don't have yet.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 01, 2010, 01:23:52 PM
Hmmm I wonder what I have then.  Must contact the nursery I bought it from.  It certainly wasn't *that* expensive.  Its not bulking up very quickly either.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 01, 2010, 01:40:08 PM
Hmmm I wonder what I have then.  Must contact the nursery I bought it from.  It certainly wasn't *that* expensive.  Its not bulking up very quickly either.

Chris, it might be E. sagittatum, a species that does have very small flowers.  Be careful google researching this one online, the species is mostly known for medicinal uses, in particular as an aphrodesiac, and it is hard to find legimate images of it.  There is a cultivar of this species named 'Warlord' introduced by Darrell Probst in 2007, with tiniest of white and yellow flowers, but grown for the striking red mottled foliage, and the long narrow shield-like leaf shape similar to the photo your provided.  I'm afraid the $125 price makes 'Warlord' unobtainable for me. :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 01, 2010, 06:54:14 PM
So I hurried out to look again... Here are pictures close up of the flowers, they are, tip to tip, about 1.1cm in size.  Quite interesting once I looked more closely.  Had to cut off the flower raceme, which was about 25cm in length.  I can see why this plant, whatever its identity, is a bit more expensive, it has not clumped up much in the three years since I bought it.  Anyway, here are its flowers:
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 01, 2010, 06:56:20 PM
And here's another.  I got this from Edrom, so I reckon it has the right name - E. 'Amber Queen'.  It has lovely large flowers and this equally lovely fresh foliage:
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 04, 2010, 05:44:03 PM
Chris, your first one certainly isn't lishihchenii.
I would have guessed E. myrianthum but since I haven't seen E. sagittatum in reality I can not compare; so, I'm not really sure.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 04, 2010, 06:59:15 PM
Wim - when I googled it, the flowers of E. myrianthum are different in form and colour to those of my plant.  I just love the foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 04, 2010, 07:12:13 PM
Wim - when I googled it, the flowers of E. myrianthum are different in form and colour to those of my plant.  I just love the foliage.

You're right, myrianthum has longer spurs too so you should stick to E. sagittatum.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 04, 2010, 07:23:15 PM
Wim/ I've just had a reply from the nursery that sold it to me, and they too think it is E. myrianthum, and they say they got it from a reputable Japanese source.  They were most apologetic of course, but I told them I was perfectly happy with what I did get anyway...  The plot thickens.....
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 04, 2010, 07:33:03 PM
Wim/ I've just had a reply from the nursery that sold it to me, and they too think it is E. myrianthum, and they say they got it from a reputable Japanese source.  They were most apologetic of course, but I told them I was perfectly happy with what I did get anyway...  The plot thickens.....

Chris,

like with any other Epi, there's always variation within the species itself so it might be myrianthum anyhow...maybe someone else can solve the riddle...Mark??
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 04, 2010, 08:11:30 PM
I've written to John Jerrard too.  Lets see what he says...
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 04, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
Wim/ I've just had a reply from the nursery that sold it to me, and they too think it is E. myrianthum, and they say they got it from a reputable Japanese source.  They were most apologetic of course, but I told them I was perfectly happy with what I did get anyway...  The plot thickens.....

Chris,

like with any other Epi, there's always variation within the species itself so it might be myrianthum anyhow...maybe someone else can solve the riddle...Mark??

Sorry folks, been busy out in the garden.  I agree it could be E. myrianthum too, mine is just showing buds.  Darrell Probst says about myrianthum "similar to E. sagittatum with tiny flowers, but with over 100 flowers per stems, creating an airy mass".  Both sagittatum and myrianthum have similar color tiny flowers (white and yellow), but in myrianthum the flowers have "irridescent blue-black outer sepals enclosing the flowers in tight bud", more or less its hallmark as a species are the tiny shiny blue buds.  Chris, it seems in the second close-up shot of the flowers, I can see the outer sepal color and it looks dark blue-black color... does the description of the unopened irridescent blue-black buds ring true for your plant?  If so, it is myrianthum, if not, then probably sagittatum.  In my plant the leaves are lightly mottled in spring, but there are selected plants with bold mottling; he sells one called E. myrianthum 'Mottled Madness'.  I think you have something special there.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 04, 2010, 10:10:44 PM
This Friday, May 7th, 2010, I'll be out to Garden Vision Epimedium nursery, and I can hopefully compare first hand the differences between E. sagittatum and E. myrianthum.  This year, my visit will be to look and photograph only, not buying plants (man it stinks watching the wallet while unemployed :'()
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on May 04, 2010, 10:38:08 PM

Sorry folks, been busy out in the garden.  I agree it could be E. myrianthum too, mine is just showing buds.  Darrell Probst says about myrianthum "similar to E. sagittatum with tiny flowers, but with over 100 flowers per stems, creating an airy mass".  Both sagittatum and myrianthum have similar color tiny flowers (white and yellow), but in myrianthum the flowers have "irridescent blue-black outer sepals enclosing the flowers in tight bud", more or less its hallmark as a species are the tiny shiny blue buds.  Chris, it seems in the second close-up shot of the flowers, I can see the outer sepal color and it looks dark blue-black color... does the description of the unopened irridescent blue-black buds ring true for your plant?  If so, it is myrianthum, if not, then probably sagittatum.  In my plant the leaves are lightly mottled in spring, but there are selected plants with bold mottling; he sells one called E. myrianthum 'Mottled Madness'.  I think you have something special there.


Mmmm.... I see what you mean, McMark.... here is the portion of CHris' photo (Though the original was much reduced in file size even though the width of the pic was average  :-\ ) ....
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 04, 2010, 11:24:54 PM
Many Epimedium are now finishing up their floral show, while a smaller number of later flowering species and cultivars continue.  I have a large backlog of photos, which I'll share in batches as time permits.

1-2   Two photos of my woodland/epimedium garden expansion... bye-bye sod.

3-4   Two more photos of E. x 'Amanogawa'; better closeup showing the flowers with unique color cups and spurs.

5-6   Epimedium ilicifolium - this is a particularly hardy form, a low growing species with narrow spiny holly-like leaves, intersting brown mottled in earlier spring, and just coming now are large spidery yellow and green flowers in horizontally spreading sprays. A neat growing species.

7-10  Epimedium hybrid with davidii, one of my own seedlings that is really cute, with small but chunky bright yellow flowers and deep pink sepals.  The plant shown is 3 years old, it'll be interesting to see how it looks when bulked up.  Very fertile, I shall be using it as breeding material.  Based on the very hairy stems and flower pedicels, and very small flower size, I believe this is a cross with E. brevicornu.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 05, 2010, 07:33:44 PM
Hi Mark,

Here is the unopened flowers, closest I can get with my digital.  and a better picture of the foliage
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 06, 2010, 10:52:46 PM
And finally, I got a reply from John Sirkett.  He says, after seeing the pictures above:  Hi Christine,
thanks for your message, it looks like a nice plant. As you may have gathered there
are a lot of misnamed Epimedium about at present. From your picture I would have
placed the plant in E.myrianthum but it is also very close to E.sagittatum (they may
eventually be merged as species). The leaves of E.sagittatum have 'markedly
undulate margins' while the margins of E.myrianthum are flat. I would say that your
plant had flat leaves, but it may not be so 'in the flesh'.

And the leaves on my plant are flat, so, E. myrianthum it is.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 07, 2010, 12:03:33 AM
Yay, it's so fun when sleuthing out these identifications to arrive at a positive ID.  My E. myrianthum opened a few flowers, and I tried my best today to get a decent photo, this one with its minuscule flowers and buds widely dispersed, is near impossible to photograph.  Only one turned out decent enough to show here, the closeup being a zoomed view of the flowers on the same photo.  Chris, in your latest photo, and in mine, you can see the dark blue outer sepals forming the buds.  But you'll also notice, mine is a plain green-leaved plant, without any of the marvelous mottling of your plant :'(

It is interesting to learn from your Mr. Sirkett just how similar E. myrianthum and E. sagittatum are, if not eventually becoming conspecific.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 08, 2010, 04:16:09 AM
Today I visited Garden Vision Nursery in charming Hubbardston, Massachusetts, USA, on one of their six "open nursery days" over two long weekends in May, an annual event. This one-of-a-kind nursery has the most comprehensive offering of Epimedium species and cultivars in the world, a hot-bed of fantastic introductions by Epi-Jedi Master Darrell Probst.  If interested in more information contact Karen Perkins, Owner/Proprietor of the nursery, at epimediums@earthlink.net. 

It was a perfect dry, sunny, mild (not hot) day, and the epimediums were in full force.  It's getting late, and I'll be posting more photos, but let me leave you with this teaser photo showing one of numerous hybrid seedlings under trial at Garden Vision Epimediums... yum yum eat em up.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Stephen Vella on May 08, 2010, 06:28:39 AM
nice hybrids Mark...keep them coming.
 
Do you know the cross of this last one?

cheers
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 08, 2010, 01:32:31 PM
nice hybrids Mark...keep them coming.
 
Do you know the cross of this last one?

cheers

This hybrid was among many rows marked as "hybrids under trial", but in this particular section they were sumptuous hybrids that resemble his two recent introductions 'Pink Champagne' and 'Domino'.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 08, 2010, 07:08:47 PM
I've been patiently waiting for this one to flower.  Today it did.  I've been keeping it in a pot because it tends to get lost otherwise in the garden.  Love the markings on the edges of the foliage.  First the foliage, then a close up of the flower for Epimedium grandiflorum 'Nanum'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: John Aipassa on May 09, 2010, 03:43:23 PM
My first Epimedium to flower.

Epimedium Madame Butterfly.

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Regelian on May 09, 2010, 03:53:19 PM
John,

that's a real beauty!  Nice contrast and graceful form.  Well named.  Is it a european cultivar?  I've not heard of it.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: John Aipassa on May 09, 2010, 03:56:08 PM
John,

that's a real beauty!  Nice contrast and graceful form.  Well named.  Is it a european cultivar?  I've not heard of it.

Hi Jamie,

I don't know the origin (yet). Haven't looked it up, but the source is European though. It is from Edrom Nurseries Scotland.

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 09, 2010, 06:35:42 PM
Very nice John,

a striking contrast and it has beautiful young leaves too.

Jamie,

it's an English introduction from Robin White's nursery (Blackthorn nursery).
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: John Aipassa on May 09, 2010, 06:46:29 PM
Very nice John,

a striking contrast and it has beautiful young leaves too.

Jamie,

it's an English introduction from Robin White's nursery (Blackthorn nursery).

Thanks Wim,

Do you also know the parents of this hybrid? Acuminatum? Epsteinii? Mikinori? Other?

Cheers,
John

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 09, 2010, 08:02:58 PM
You're welcome, John.

It's a cross between E. acuminatum and  E. latisepalum.

Cheers
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Regelian on May 09, 2010, 09:41:54 PM
You're welcome, John.

It's a cross between E. acuminatum and  E. latisepalum.

Cheers

Wim,

the things you have stored away in your little book of data.  It's always a treat.  I bet you have some real beauties waiting in the garden to bloom. 
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 09, 2010, 11:15:40 PM
You're welcome, John.

It's a cross between E. acuminatum and  E. latisepalum.

Cheers

I would've guessed that it was an acuminatum cross.  To show the affinity to acuminatum, here are two photos taken recently at Garden Vision Epimedium nursery of E. acuminatum.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 10, 2010, 03:51:56 AM
Continuing series - Part 1: Garden Vision Epimediums  nursery in Hubbardston, Massachusetts, USA - Darrell Probst Epi-Jedi Master, Karen Perkins Owner/Proprietor/Horticulturalist.

Garden Vision Epimediums is not a retail nursery in the typical sense, it is a private naturalistic horticultural laboratory carved out of acres of rough and tumble forested hillside in Central Massachusetts, with areas cleared for sunlight and nursery beds. Walking down from a small shaded gravel parking lot to the nursery beds, one gets a sense of traversing frontier logging roads leading deep into the woods.  On the roadside cuts with high and steep enbankments, there can be found occasional choice woodland plants and Epimediums, improbably poked into the bare-earth enbankment walls. Eventually one reaches a gently sloped area, with rows upon rows of high mounded plantings with masses of Epimediums.

The day I visited was during one of two annual Open Nursery Weekends, where visitors can pick up their orders, browse tables of Epimediums and other woodlanders for sale, and the best part, meander through the nursery beds packed full of Epimedium species and cultivars, and hybrid trial beds.

A bit about my photographs. I took several hundred photos, but had to cope with brilliant sunlight, not my preferred lighting condition to capture the delicate beauty of epimediums, as well as strong winds challenging my efforts to get focused images.  I was travelling with a friend, and was scheduled to visit another garden in central Massachusetts that day, time was limited, so I just shot photos using my daughter's entry-level Nikon Coolpix camera as best I could under the conditions. I may go back on an overcast or partly cloudy day and do another photoshoot. 

1-3  Of the most frequent epimediums in the nursery is Epimedium sp. nov ;D.  On a 6' (2 meter) high nearly vertical bare-earth enbankment approaching the nursery beds, I spotted an Epimedium with enormous flowers. Another E. sp. nov!  Comparing the flowers to the size of my fingers, I put the width of a single flower at 5-6 cm across!  It is an evergreen species, with finely spine-edged heart-shaped leaves, the new foliage bright red mottled, and gorgeous big spider flowers of pastel pinkish white sepals, and purple petals shading to an orange-rimmed cup. Wow!

4-5  The other most commonly found epimediums among the nursery rows, is "Epimedium hybrid under trial".  Shown is a nice one with lightly mottled brown-tinged foliage and sprays of plump sugar pink flowers. The strong light was not conducive to good photos, but you will get the idea.

6-9  E. sp. nov 'Simple Beauty' - this is an unnamed new species (awaiting publication) that Darrell discovered in China, a simple leaved form of a new undescribed species that normally has three leaflets.  The most striking aspect of this species is the high sheen on the leaves, the leaves so glossy they look like they're wet, or have been oiled and polished.  Apparently it is a very good parent in hybridization efforts to pass along the shiny leaf characteristic.  The flowers are large chartreuse yellow spiders with incurved spurs. A 2010 introduction, it is available for sale under the category of "Rarities for Breeders and Collectors" for $200.  According to Darrell the simple-leaved form was very rare, with only a few plants found.

10  Walking among rows upon rows of epimedium cultivars, many of which I grow, it is not uncommon to come across something new... my eye caught a patch of beautiful coppery-red leaves delicately suspended and glowing in the sunshine, labelled E. sempervirens 'Japonica Magnifica'.

To be continued.

Also see:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg151421#msg151421
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 07:08:28 AM
You're welcome, John.

It's a cross between E. acuminatum and  E. latisepalum.

Cheers

Wim,

the things you have stored away in your little book of data.  It's always a treat.  I bet you have some real beauties waiting in the garden to bloom. 

Thanks Jamie,

Epi's are one of my (many ::)) favorite genusses of plants, they keep some interest in the shade garden when a lot of plants have already flowered and are gone. Still some photos to follow, indeed  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 07:14:04 AM
Mark,

wonderful plants in Darrell's trial beds.
I like especially the new species with the big flowers (6 cms is huge for an Epi) and E. sempervirens 'Japonica magnifica' (very nice leaf colour indeed)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 12:50:12 PM
Here are some picture from today taken in my garden:

Epimedium 'Domino'
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Yellow Princess'
Epimedium 'Kaguya Hime'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 10, 2010, 01:24:27 PM
Here are some picture from today taken in my garden:

Epimedium 'Domino'
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Yellow Princess'
Epimedium 'Kaguya Hime'

Excellent close-up photos Wim!  So, Domino has jumped continents too ;D

If it is okay, I'd like to offer up some additional informatiion to add extra context to a couple of these plants.  E. grandiforum 'Yellow Princess' is distinct on account of being a wild selection from high montane elevations in Japan, representing a late emerging (thus late-flowering) form of E. grandiflorum, useful to extend the season of flowering when most grandiflorums are going over.  I find it to be a slow grower too.  This was a year 2000 introduction by Darrell Probst. 

There is another late-emerging wild form of E. grandiflorum from the upper mountainous regions of Japan that was recently introduced (2002) by Darrell Probst, it is E. grandiflorum 'Cranberry Sparkle'.  This is the latest of all, even later emerging than 'Yellow Princess', and just starting to flower recently; the flowers are large and an intense dark cranberry color true to its name, a stunning small plant to be sure.  Photos to be posted soon.

E. x 'Kaguyahime' (most often I see it listed as a single name versus a two-word name, not sure which is correct), this is another beautiful E. acuminatum hybrid (by E. dolichostemon).  I find the flowers are partially nestled and hidden amongst the foliage, but the foliage, that is the main attraction, just look at the beautiful leaf mottling.  This plant flowers over a very long period, mine have been in bloom for a month.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 10, 2010, 03:00:25 PM
One of the harder to find Epimedium varieties is E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Nanum'.  It is slower to emerge than other flavescens types, with the initial flush of foliage showing very small leaflets of an unusual and attractive tan-coffee color, red stems and dropping clusters of light yellow buds (photo 1).  It is growing beside the much larger E. grandiflorum v. flavescens 'La Rocaille' on the right.

In a weeks time, the leaves more fully expand, yet still much smaller than other flavescens forms, turning a lively bright green, and showing delicate light yellow flowers at the periphery of the leaf canopy (photo 2).  Beside it you can see the much larger 'La Rocaille' which maintains the burnished coppery red tones on the leaves.

Photo 3 is a close-up of the flowers and fine leaflets.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 05:07:18 PM

Excellent close-up photos Wim!  So, Domino has jumped continents too ;D

If it is okay, I'd like to offer up some additional informatiion to add extra context to a couple of these plants.  E. grandiforum 'Yellow Princess' is distinct on account of being a wild selection from high montane elevations in Japan, representing a late emerging (thus late-flowering) form of E. grandiflorum, useful to extend the season of flowering when most grandiflorums are going over.  I find it to be a slow grower too.  This was a year 2000 introduction by Darrell Probst. 

There is another late-emerging wild form of E. grandiflorum from the upper mountainous regions of Japan that was recently introduced (2002) by Darrell Probst, it is E. grandiflorum 'Cranberry Sparkle'.  This is the latest of all, even later emerging than 'Yellow Princess', and just starting to flower recently; the flowers are large and an intense dark cranberry color true to its name, a stunning small plant to be sure.  Photos to be posted soon.

E. x 'Kaguyahime' (most often I see it listed as a single name versus a two-word name, not sure which is correct), this is another beautiful E. acuminatum hybrid (by E. dolichostemon).  I find the flowers are partially nestled and hidden amongst the foliage, but the foliage, that is the main attractive, just look at the beautiful leaf mottling.  This plant flowers over a very long period, mine have been in bloom for a month.

Thanks Marc,

you're always more then welcome to give some additional info. You have a lot more knowledge about these plants than I do. I think it's the second year 'Domino' has been for sale here in Belgium.

'Yellow Princess' is a very slow grower here too. Perfect for a shady corner of the rock garden.

I'm looking forward to a picture of 'Cranberry Sparkle'

'Kaguya Hime' should be written in two words: it means Princess Kaguya (a character from a Japanese tenth century folktale (the tale of the bamboo cutter)) (Hime = Princess, Kaguya = the name of the main character which means "radiant night")
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 10, 2010, 05:16:02 PM
Mark,  I know colouring on leaves can vary, but my E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' has very definite edging to the foliage, is this a common variation?  It is also quite a lot smaller than yours.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 10, 2010, 06:38:33 PM
Mark,  I know colouring on leaves can vary, but my E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' has very definite edging to the foliage, is this a common variation?  It is also quite a lot smaller than yours.

Chris, it is typical for E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' to have a light purplish band around the foliage in spring, which fades as the leaves mature.  It is also typical for older mature plants to grow larger over time.  I have two plants of this, one is 3 years old, the other about 8 years old.  The younger one is so cute, now 12" (30 cm) across x 4" (10 cm) tall in foliage with flowers on stems a little bit taller.  It also has adorable tiny tiny leaves.  The older plant starts out with small leaflets but they get bigger, initially flowering at about 4-6" (10-15 cm) but eventually reaches 10-11" tall (25-27.5 cm), and 24" (60 cm width).  Too bad it doesn't stay as small as when its a younger plant, but it is still smaller than most grandiflorums.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
Chris, I think you mixed two different plants up.
E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Nanum' is not the same as E. grandiflorum 'Nanum'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 10, 2010, 06:47:28 PM

I'm looking forward to a picture of 'Cranberry Sparkle'

'Kaguya Hime' should be written in two words: it means Princess Kaguya (a character from a Japanese tenth century folktale (the tale of the bamboo cutter)) (Hime = Princess, Kaguya = the name of the main character which means "radiant night")

Thanks Wim, good info on the name "Kaguya Hime", thanks... now I feel I know more about this plant.  Regarding 'Cranberry Sparkle', today the sun is out, but still VERY cold and blustery after a day and a half of downpour rain, so the young 'Cranberry Sparkle' looks weather beaten.  I include just a shot of some young buds starting to expand and one color-drained drenched flower.  I have a second plant of this, it is planted in too much shade, and the photos are coming out looking pink instead of red, and many of the flowers have been picked off by some crazed hybridizer :o ;D which make it not overly photogenic.  So, here's one pathetic little sprig beginning to bloom.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 10, 2010, 06:53:10 PM
Chris, I think you mixed two different plants up.
E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Nanum' is not the same as E. grandiflorum 'Nanum'

Oh, maybe that's why the question came up.  Wim, you are correct, these are two different plants.  For what it is worth, the E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Nanum' was first distributed as E. koreanum 'Nanum', as was typical for the earlier days of nomenclature when the differences between E. grandiflorum f. favescens and E. koreanum were not known.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 06:53:42 PM
Regarding 'Cranberry Sparkle', today the sun is out, but still VERY cold and blustery after a day and a half of downpour rain, so the young 'Cranberry Sparkle' looks weather beaten.  I include just a shot of some young buds starting to expand and one color-drained drenched flower.  I have a second plant of this, it is planted in too much shade, and the photos are coming out looking pink instead of red, and many of the flowers have been picked off by some crazed hybridizer :o ;D which make it not overly photogenic.  So, here's one pathetic little sprig beginning to bloom.

Thanks Mark,

Now I'm really curious to see which kind of "children" this "Crazed hybridizer" will produce with all those lovely cultivars he grows  ;). I guess you'll show us in a couple of years.

I didn't know this cultivar. I'll have to see if someone in Belgium has imported it already.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 10, 2010, 07:04:25 PM
Must pry myself away from the computer and get out into the garden, so much to do on the sunny day.  Before I head on out, here are a couple picture of two of Darrell Probst's best, E. x 'Pink Champagne', what a stunner it is.  The other one is E. sp. nov. 'The Giant', with those caramel color spiders.

And a final pic, of E. x 'Domino'.  I was told that this hybrid was sterile, after I had spent time of dabbing pollen on nearly every flower.  Well, we shall see, because I see lots of little pods starting, whether they contain viable seed will be the question.
Follow-up, this plant is utterly sterile, nothing in those capsules - McMark
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 07:17:13 PM
Hmmm, "Pink Champagne' is on my wish list... simply BEAUTIFUL

I have pods on my 'Domino' too, I didn't try crossing it though... I'll see if I have seeds...
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: John Aipassa on May 10, 2010, 07:47:58 PM
Hmmm, "Pink Champagne' is on my wish list... simply BEAUTIFUL

.....and Kaguya Hime is on mine.............what is your source for this one Wim? Koen van Poucke?

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2010, 07:58:28 PM
Hmmm, "Pink Champagne' is on my wish list... simply BEAUTIFUL

.....and Kaguya Hime is on mine.............what is your source for this one Wim? Koen van Poucke?

Cheers,
John

John, mine comes from Epimedium nursery (Daniëlle Monbaliu) in Oostkamp, Belgium; but Koen sells it too.

Cheers,

Wim
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: John Aipassa on May 10, 2010, 08:21:16 PM
John, mine comes from Epimedium nursery (Daniëlle Monbaliu) in Oostkamp, Belgium; but Koen sells it too.

Cheers,

Wim

Thank you.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Katrin Lugerbauer on May 10, 2010, 10:33:04 PM
I bought 'Pink Champagne' on a plant market in the South of Germany (Freising) two days ago. There were some nurseries who sold them, I was surprised because I thought it is a completely rare plant. But it seems that epimediums become more and more popular!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 11, 2010, 12:38:12 AM
I bought 'Pink Champagne' on a plant market in the South of Germany (Freising) two days ago. There were some nurseries who sold them, I was surprised because I thought it is a completely rare plant. But it seems that epimediums become more and more popular!

Was it expensive?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Katrin Lugerbauer on May 11, 2010, 09:46:46 PM
No (the second reason I was surprised), I saw it for for € 7 and for € 10.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 12, 2010, 05:12:23 PM
Anyone here who knows anything about the origin of E. grandiflorum 'Saxton's Purple'? Who made the cross and when was it sold for the first time? Mark? Anyone else?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 12, 2010, 05:34:36 PM
Anyone here who knows anything about the origin of E. grandiflorum 'Saxton's Purple'? Who made the cross and when was it sold for the first time? Mark? Anyone else?

I don't know the parentage... Darrell Probst probably knows, he can rattle off the background on almost any epimedium you ask him about, but typically the parentage is not mentioned in catalogs.  I like this plant, one of the better purples, but not as deep purple as the purplest of all purples, namely E. grandiflorum 'Purple Prince'.  Are you interested to know, to see what's in the "blood line" for hybridization?

'Saxton's Purple' has a fine pie-crust crimped edge to the leaf, and overall I like this cultivar very much.  So that readers get a sense of what this looks like, I upload a couple pics.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 12, 2010, 06:47:00 PM
I don't know the parentage... Darrell Probst probably knows, he can rattle off the background on almost any epimedium you ask him about, but typically the parentage is not mentioned in catalogs.  I like this plant, one of the better purples, but not as deep purple as the purplest of all purples, namely E. grandiflorum 'Purple Prince'.  Are you interested to know, to see what's in the "blood line" for hybridization?

'Saxton's Purple' has a fine pie-crust crimped edge to the leaf, and overall I like this cultivar very much.  So that readers get a sense of what this looks like, I upload a couple pics.

Mark,
I'm interested because I just received one from a friend and I can't seem to find any information about it. Maybe I should mail Darrell or Karen.
No deliberate hybridization this year with this cultivar, maybe next year.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on May 12, 2010, 06:59:15 PM
here is a other Epimedium :

Epimedium grandiflorum 'Shiho'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 15, 2010, 12:39:01 PM
here is a other Epimedium :

Epimedium grandiflorum 'Shiho'

Hans, another one I am unfamiliar with.  Found it on Edrom Nurseries, evidently it is a new one from Japan.  Seems to have very good rich coloring and flowers held above the foliage.
http://edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-grandiflorum-Shiho-20p9137.htm#details
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 15, 2010, 01:09:29 PM
Continuing series - Part 2: Garden Vision Epimediums nursery in Hubbardston, Massachusetts, USA - Darrell Probst Epi-Jedi Master, Karen Perkins Owner/Proprietor/Horticulturalist. 

1-2  Many beds of epimedium at the nursery are labelled "Epimedium hybrids under trial".  One that caught my attention, although evidently one not considered as good enough (because it hasn't been "flagged") was this one with frilled pink and white sepals, and broad and chunky yellow cup and spurs.

3-8  More "Epimedium hybrids under trial", this grouping all looked akin to Darrell's newest hybrids 'Domino' and 'Pink Champagne'... the colors were delicious.  Unfortunately, many of the photos came out poorly (blurred) due to gusty winds, so I cannot show the complete range of colors seen.  Some of the paler cream and yellow ones were exquisite, but you'll get an idea about the color possibilities.

9-10 Among the more dramatic Epimedium hybrids are those where Darrell's E. sp. nov 'Spine Tingler' is the parent, forming amazing compact mounds of extra narrow spine-edged, wavy-margined, glossy leaves, burnished and shaded with copper and red tones.  It would be worth growing for the foliage alone, but the large yellow spiderflowers are good too.

To be continued.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Hans J on May 15, 2010, 04:18:05 PM
Hans, another one I am unfamiliar with.  Found it on Edrom Nurseries, evidently it is a new one from Japan.  Seems to have very good rich coloring and flowers held above the foliage.
http://edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-grandiflorum-Shiho-20p9137.htm#details

Mark :

My plant is from netherland from the nursery of P.Nijssen -this name is listet in the Epimedium book from Stearn
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: John Aipassa on May 15, 2010, 07:05:10 PM
Mark,

I can't wait when your trials will enter the market.

Here is my fargesii Pink Constellation.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 20, 2010, 05:35:15 PM
Epimedium colchicum pale form
(http://cs10081.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_76802ed8.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 20, 2010, 09:23:56 PM
John, E. fargesii Pink Constellation is a nice one, pretty coloration.  I just have regular white and purple fargesii, but it really settled in and took off this year.  In previous years I had dismissed it as not a great species, but I have reconsidered after it filled in.  I like the fact the pollen is green, easy to see when using fargesii flowers for hybridization ;D  It also has some late blooms, used the last two flowers on it today... maybe it'll rebloom.  One day I'll have to get 'Pink Constellation', I believe the flower shape and color could be useful in a hybridization program.

Olga, I believe I saw a photo (was it yours?) in 2009 that showed various pastel color forms of E. pinnatum colchicum, instead of the usually bright yellow.  Are the pastel flower forms available in commerce someplace?    Being such a different (for colchicum) and lovely color, I'm surprised that it is not a named cultivar.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 20, 2010, 10:09:00 PM
It has been an educational process, to label self-sown epimedium seedlings as to what Epimedium species or cultivar it was found under.  In a few years growing on seedlings, knowing the likely parent plant and its neighboring plants, give clues as to what might happen if a deliberate hybridization program were in place.  I was surprised by some of the seedlings found under Epimedium x youngianum 'Liliputian'

In the first photo, you see 'Liliputian' (aptly named) in the center, with E. grandiflorum 'Dark Beauty' on the left (already starting to "green up") and E. grandiflorum 'Queen Esta' on the right, certainly of similar parentage as 'Dark Beauty', mostly likely with grandiflorum var. violaceum blood (seems unlikely to me that 'Dark Beauty' came from 'Yubae' and 'Silver Queen' as has been stated).  Liliputian has faint speckling on the foliage.

The seedlings from Liliputian are all small to small-ish plants, useful if one is breeding for compact sized plants.  In fact, one is even smaller than Liliputian, although it remains to be seen it it grow larger over time, the same way that E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' eventually builds in size. I uploaded photos of some of the seedlings in their late spring foliage, some showing colorful second foliar flushes.  There is obvious influence from 'Dark Beauty' on some. 

1.  General view, giving sense of scale to 'Liliputian' in the middle.
2.  hybrid that is even more dwarf than Liliputian, all green leaves, no faint leaf speckling.
3.  hybrid with 'dark Beauty', imparts those coffe-toffee-color new leaves.  Not flowered yet.
4.  hybrid, dark new leaflets, white flowers
5.  hybrid, pinkish red, narrow pointed new foliage
6.  hybrid, red-rimmed hearts on new foliage
7.  hybrid, bright red and yellow angular new leaves.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 20, 2010, 10:25:47 PM
But it seems that epimediums become more and more popular!

Who could be surprised at that, considering how many fabulous and stunning plants are shown on this Forum? :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on May 20, 2010, 10:58:00 PM
But it seems that epimediums become more and more popular!

Who could be surprised at that, considering how many fabulous and stunning plants are shown on this Forum? :D
Quite so! This taken from the top of the page now:
Quote
Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010  (Read 6875 times)
    That's a LOT of interest!  :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 21, 2010, 10:37:59 AM
It has been an educational process, to label self-sown epimedium seedlings as to what Epimedium species or cultivar it was found under.  In a few years growing on seedlings, knowing the likely parent plant and its neighboring plants, give clues as to what might happen if a deliberate hybridization program were in place.  I was surprised by some of the seedlings found under Epimedium x youngianum 'Liliputian'

In the first photo, you see 'Liliputian' (aptly named) in the center, with E. grandiflorum 'Dark Beauty' on the left (already starting to "green up") and E. grandiflorum 'Queen Esta' on the right, certainly of similar parentage as 'Dark Beauty', mostly likely with grandiflorum var. violaceum blood (seems unlikely to me that 'Dark Beauty' came from 'Yubae' and 'Silver Queen' as has been stated).  Liliputian has faint speckling on the foliage.

The seedlings from Liliputian are all small to small-ish plants, useful if one is breeding for compact sized plants.  In fact, one is even smaller than Liliputian, although it remains to be seen it it grow larger over time, the same way that E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' eventually builds in size. I uploaded photos of some of the seedlings in their late spring foliage, some showing colorful second foliar flushes.  There is obvious influence from 'Dark Beauty' on some. 

1.  General view, giving sense of scale to 'Liliputian' in the middle.
2.  hybrid that is even more dwarf than Liliputian, all green leaves, no faint leaf speckling.
3.  hybrid with 'dark Beauty', imparts those coffe-toffee-color new leaves.  Not flowered yet.
4.  hybrid, dark new leaflets, white flowers
5.  hybrid, pinkish red, narrow pointed new foliage
6.  hybrid, red-rimmed hearts on new foliage
7.  hybrid, bright red and yellow angular new leaves.

I bought E. x youngiaum 'Lilliputian' this year. It seems very good for hybridizing. Thanks for showing these, Mark.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 21, 2010, 10:47:20 AM
Mark, when you show us pictures of these plants, they always seem to be in light rather than shade.   Do you grow them all in full sunlight?  I notice a lot of bark mulch around them too, which I do.  But I try to grow them in shade mostly.  Maybe I should reconsider?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 21, 2010, 11:45:15 AM
Mark, when you show us pictures of these plants, they always seem to be in light rather than shade.   Do you grow them all in full sunlight?  I notice a lot of bark mulch around them too, which I do.  But I try to grow them in shade mostly.  Maybe I should reconsider?

Chris, I believe epimedium do best with at least a couple hours of direct sun, even up to half day sun, to color up best and promote strong flowering.  I made a new area in a shady spot 2 years ago, shaded by a white pine, and the more constant shaded conditions under an evergreen tree has resulted in slower growth and disappointing floral displays.  If grown under or around deciduous trees, the eppies at least get lots of sun as they initially grow and set flowers, to get high open shade after flowering when the trees leaf out... that's a happy situation.  My new Epimedium expansion area gets 1/2 day full sun and indirect shade in the afternoon.

The nursery beds at Garden Vision Epimediums is, for the most part, right out there in the sun.  Since the nursery is an area cut out of the forest, the perimeter woods do bring some shady relief at certain times of day.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on May 21, 2010, 12:30:54 PM
Nice pale form Olga  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: ChrisB on May 21, 2010, 12:36:21 PM
Thanks for that Mark.  I'll bear it in mind when planting any more.  It has to be said that some of mine refuse to flower and this may be the reason why!  I had always considered them dry shade plants.... ah well, most do survive nicely for me in these conditions.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 21, 2010, 12:54:27 PM
Thanks for that Mark.  I'll bear it in mind when planting any more.  It has to be said that some of mine refuse to flower and this may be the reason why!  I had always considered them dry shade plants.... ah well, most do survive nicely for me in these conditions.

Actually, many will do just fine in full sun, in fact, I've shown here in this thread a couple times E. x warleyense growing in full sun. It flowers like crazy, and the foliage takes on deep burnished orange shades (it is fantastic right now), whereas when grown in shade the foliage is plain green. A few weeks ago I rescued a large clump of E. x warleyense 'Orangekonigin' completely shaded under Stewartia pseudocamelia... the tree roots far too aggressive and mat-forming to allow much to grow under the tree, so the eppie barely blooms.  In a sunnier spot without such drastic root competition, I hope to see more of its lovely orange flowers (which are fertile and produce pollen for hybridizing, unlike its sterile sibling :D).
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 22, 2010, 09:18:20 AM
Olga, I believe I saw a photo (was it yours?) in 2009 that showed various pastel color forms of E. pinnatum colchicum, instead of the usually bright yellow.  Are the pastel flower forms available in commerce someplace?    Being such a different (for colchicum) and lovely color, I'm surprised that it is not a named cultivar.

Mark,
I found this pale form in 2008. It was one plant between thousands of standard yellow. Now it is bigger and stronger. I hope in some years I could multiply it and spread to other gardens. It set seeds but they will give 100% hybrids because other species are near.
We could choose its name right now. :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on May 24, 2010, 05:46:32 PM
Olga, I believe I saw a photo (was it yours?) in 2009 that showed various pastel color forms of E. pinnatum colchicum, instead of the usually bright yellow.  Are the pastel flower forms available in commerce someplace?    Being such a different (for colchicum) and lovely color, I'm surprised that it is not a named cultivar.

Mark,

We could choose its name right now. :)

I suggest "Olga"   (After my grandmother of course  ;D ;D ;D )
It is a really superior colour and it looks even better than last year
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 25, 2010, 02:48:18 AM

Mark,
I found this pale form in 2008. It was one plant between thousands of standard yellow. Now it is bigger and stronger. I hope in some years I could multiply it and spread to other gardens. It set seeds but they will give 100% hybrids because other species are near.
We could choose its name right now. :)


Hard to say, since plants that get named, will bear that name for years and decades, it is easy to agonize on finding just the right name.  Your comment about "100% hybrids" makes sense of course, but has me thinking... I dedicated approximately 25 different Epimedium to be pod parents, and over the course of weeks I hand pollinated (hydridize with selected species/cultivars) each and every flower on those selected plants.  Now I've been very busy harvesting the pods as they're mostly ripe, and sowing the seed.  But I am also sowing selected OP (Open-Pollinated) epimediums, particularly those that have interesting epimedium neighbors near by.  So, my E. pinnatum colchicum is covered with fat pods... maybe I should sow a couple flats of these, and see what comes out of it.  Such fun!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 25, 2010, 02:54:40 AM
Does anyone have suggestions for methods of hastening Epimedium seed germination.  In my experience, they only germinate after going through a winter, and when weather warms up the following spring they start germinating.  I've been told by those having much more experience with Epimedium germination than myself, that attempts at refrigerator treatments, greenhouse treatments, etc, that none of these methods works very well except for letting seeds germinate the following spring after warm weather arrives.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: rob krejzl on May 25, 2010, 04:01:49 AM
Quote
I've been told by those having much more experience with Epimedium germination than myself, that attempts at refrigerator treatments, greenhouse treatments, etc, that none of these methods works very well except for letting seeds germinate the following spring after warm weather arrives.

Isn't the implication of this that there are two factors involved in initiating germination, chilling and (presumably) the  removal/breakdown of a chemical inhibitor? Did anyone try a regime involving repeated rinsing in clean water in addition to stratification?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 25, 2010, 04:27:23 AM
Quote
I've been told by those having much more experience with Epimedium germination than myself, that attempts at refrigerator treatments, greenhouse treatments, etc, that none of these methods works very well except for letting seeds germinate the following spring after warm weather arrives.

Isn't the implication of this that there are two factors involved in initiating germination, chilling and (presumably) the  removal/breakdown of a chemical inhibitor? Did anyone try a regime involving repeated rinsing in clean water in addition to stratification?

Sounds like an idea to try, this is why I posted the question, to garner some suggestions by others who might have first-hand experience hastening the seed germination of Epimedium.  Since the seed of Epimedium is a succulent juicy little "bean", I'm not sure how repeated rinsing would work, as that technique is generally reserved for seeds with a hard seed coat.  The Epimedium seeds are soft and fleshy when initially "ripe".
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 25, 2010, 06:06:30 AM
Generally I'm quite happy for things to take until the following season or year. There's always more than enough to do THIS year that putting off something else until next, sounds like a good idea. But then, I'm the procrastinator's procrastinator. :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 25, 2010, 07:50:58 AM
I suggest "Olga"   (After my grandmother of course  ;D ;D ;D )
It is a really superior color and it looks even better than last year

Think "Loo" (name of the place where it was found) sounds better?   ::)

Hard to say, since plants that get named, will bear that name for years and decades, it is easy to agonize on finding just the right name.

I hate to choose names. But plants with name live better.

Quote
Your comment about "100% hybrids"

I remember (do not know from, may be from Stern's book) Epimediums do not set seed when alone. This clone is one plant divided for better and quicker growth. So it must be self-sterile. Other E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum were not blooming at that time. Many other epimediums were. So... Seeds must produce hybrids from free pollination.

Quote
Now I've been very busy harvesting the pods as they're mostly ripe, and sowing the seed.

Wow! Waiting for new beautiful epimeds! :) Great work!

Every year I am going to sow free pollinated seed of Epimediums but every year I am too busy to do that… Now I find many Epimedium seedlings in the garden. It’s very interesting to wait for their flowers.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 25, 2010, 07:54:39 AM
Free seedling
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_12d0dbb9.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 25, 2010, 07:57:26 AM
Epimedium "Amber Queen"
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_1df253ba.jpg)


(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_158bdec3.jpg)

Epimedium grandiflorum "Nanum"
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_a27ce1d6.jpg)

Epimedium macrosepalum
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_c36f3581.jpg)

Epimedium x youngianum "Niveum"
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_e24c3531.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 25, 2010, 07:59:40 AM
Epimedium "Sasaki"
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_49c1eb19.jpg)

Epimedium x versicolor "Neosulphureum" (?)
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_a19c8e4f.jpg)

Epimedium "Rubrokrone"
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_f0a05ccd.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 25, 2010, 10:00:47 AM
Epimedium "Sazaki"
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_49c1eb19.jpg)

Beautiful pictures, as always , Olga.

I think your Epimedium 'Sazaki' is Epimedium x 'Sasaki' which means it's a cross between E. sempervirens and E. setosum (there are a few different hybrids of this parentage sold under Epimedium x 'Sasaki' and they can differ a lot in appearance)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 25, 2010, 12:38:30 PM

Think "Loo" (name of the place where it was found) sounds better?   ::)

Hard to say, since plants that get named, will bear that name for years and decades, it is easy to agonize on finding just the right name.

I hate to choose names. But plants with name live better.


I like names that evoke an impression about the plant in some way.  Staying with Epimedium as an example, one of my personal favorites has become E. x youngianum 'Little Shield', as indeed the leaves look just like little brown-color shields held vertically.  Names for hybrids such as 'Flame Thrower', 'Pink Champagne', 'Sunshowers', 'Liliputian', all evoke an instant impression about what that plant might be like.  Names like E. x youngianum ' Jenny Wren' and 'John Gallagher' commemorate a person, but don't really tell much about the plant; I think such names should be used sparingly.

I try to avoid names that can become easily misinterpreted or misspelled thus inviting confusion.  Also look at what that name might mean in other languages given a broader context.  So with a name like "Loo", it might be misinterpreted as a misspelling for 'Lou' (a Man's name) because the name 'Loo' will only be known by people very familiar with the local place named 'Loo', or perhaps mistaken for "Loon"... the bird or a crazy person, the word "loo" is also a well established slang word in English for a toilet :o   Better to find a descriptive or poetic name of some sort.

By the way, your close-up Epimediums flower portraits are exquisite.  Also, your E. x versicolor 'Neosulphureum' is correct.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 25, 2010, 12:53:51 PM
I think your Epimedium 'Sazaki' is Epimedium x 'Sasaki' which means it's a cross between E. sempervirens and E. setosum (there are a few different hybrids of this parentage sold under Epimedium x 'Sasaki' and they can differ a lot in appearance)

Oh sorry! I have to be more accurate and do not believe my memory.  :-\

Quote
I like names that evoke an impression about the plant in some way.

Yes! Me to. Witch Broom collectors give names due to the place of find. But names in your example are impressive and remembering.

Quote
I try to avoid names that can become easily misinterpreted or misspelled thus inviting confusion.  Also look at what that name might mean in other languages given a broader context.  So with a name like "Loo", it might be misinterpreted as a misspelling for 'Lou' (a Man's name) because the name 'Loo' will only be known by people very familiar with the local place named 'Loo', or perhaps mistaken for "Loon"... the bird or a crazy person, the word "loo" is also a well established slang word in English for a toilet :o   Better to find a descriptive or poetic name of some sort.

I was afraid of such kind of language confusion.  :-X
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 25, 2010, 01:02:50 PM
This Epimedium came to me like "Creeping Yellow". It is not yellow and creeping.  :'( Think it is one of grandiflorum/youngianum sorts.
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_12166e0b.jpg)

And this one marked like "Merlin". Could it be truth?
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_e6309e1e.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 25, 2010, 01:17:26 PM
This Epimedium came to me like "Creeping Yellow". It is not yellow and creeping.  :'( Think it is one of grandiflorum/youngianum sorts.

And this one marked like "Merlin". Could it be truth?

Your 'Merlin' does not look like the right color. Just enjoy both of your misnamed eppies for the pretty plants that they are :D
My plant of "Merlin", one of the few I have not purchased from Garden Vision Nursery, is also not correctly identified, must buy it from them some day to get the real plant.  See Shelagh's photo 9.jpg at this link:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg149735#msg149735
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 26, 2010, 03:32:18 AM
Stunning pictures Olga, everyone a gem.

I agree with Mark about the naming of your lovely light yellow, especially about 'Loo.' I read somewhere once that the word "toilet" is used by the lower clases, "loo" by the middle and upper classes' and the aristocrats say "lavatory," seeing no need for the euphamisms that so many like to use. ::)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 26, 2010, 04:08:38 AM
Epimedium seed sowing is on my mind; it all seems to ripen at about the same general time and I've been working furiously to sow my attempted hybrid crosses, and perhaps 2 dozen flats of OP (Open Pollinated) seed.  I could never have done any of this if I was actually employed; once again unemployment has its benefits!  I took some photos showing what I'm up to:

1.   Olga showed her pretty white-flowered form of E. pinnatum colchicum, which had me thinking about sowing some of the big fat pods I'm seeing on my E. pinnatum colchicum, knowing they will all be hybrids of one sort or another.  Photo 1 shows a little table set out in the shade (it was a blazing 94 F or 35 C today) with seed pods of E. pinnatum colchicum, ready to be cleaned and sown.

2.   Epimedium seed squeezed out of their pods and sown on a 50/50 mix of good soil and decomposed pine bark mulch.  Since this is OP seed, I sowed the seed more densely than I might for more special hand-pollinated seed.

3.   Top-dress with decomposed pine bark mulch, removing any larger chunks.

4.   Peat flats protected with 1/4" wire mesh, easily cut with wire snips, keeps the %*^$#! chipmunks from their incessant digging... learned this the hard way.  In fact, today I spent a couple hours this morning cleaning and sowing Epimedium seed; had 6 flats done, then took a 1/2 hour break for lunch, and even in that short time, 2 flats were all dug up from marauding chipmunks.  Now, I must cover with wire mesh *immediately* after sowing.  I'm about to declare war on chipmunks.

5.   Of the various E. brevicornu x membranaceum hybrids I raised several years back, only one inherited the everblooming characteristic of E. membranaceum... the other seedlings are long-flowering much like E. brevicornu that started flowering with the earliest eppies, but still has flowers nearly two months later when most eppies are done flowering.  Last year, this one kept blooming to mid August.  Going to serve as a parent for future hybridization.

6.   E. membranaceum, a FANTASTIC species, late flowering and the best everbloomer, which will flower until cut down by frost and snow in late fall or early winter.  The blooms are the largest and most yellow of "spider blossoms" of all species... they just keep on coming.  In the photo, epimedium flowers against a backdrop of Saruma henryii.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 30, 2010, 07:21:10 PM
Your 'Merlin' does not look like the right color. Just enjoy both of your misnamed eppies for the pretty plants that they are :D

You are right but plants with name are much better.  :-\

Stunning pictures Olga, everyone a gem.

Thank you Lesley!
Still no name for that plant. Think it's no need to name it quickly.

Mark thank you for masterclass of Epimedium sowing.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 30, 2010, 07:24:27 PM
Epimedium platypetalum
(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_ee6f6d6b.jpg)

Epimedium acuminatum
(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_e8eed6c1.jpg)

(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_72d0c248.jpg)

Epimedium... Epimedium... oh my memory...
(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_217d8504.jpg)

May be E. acuminatum pale form (from China)
(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_b5fa2b77.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 31, 2010, 05:02:18 AM
Olga, some very nice epimedium flower portraits... I think I like Epimedium "Oh My Memory" best, maybe that should be the name of the cream-white pinnatum colchicum ;D  Perhaps that one is E. latisepalum, just a guess... (white flowered, the plant going around as latisepalum with white and yellow flowers appears to be wushanense).
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 31, 2010, 05:55:33 AM
Today is a miscellany of items.  I fell behind with the super-advanced season this year, the earliest season by 2 weeks ever, followed by endless warm days and some very hot days to 35 C.

1-3  An epimedium relative, the small American genus Vancouveria provides a few little woodland plants similar to epimedium, all 3 species with the fun name "insideout flower" based on the unusual flower shape.  The most common one encountered, the one I grow, is V. hexandra.  The plant is great for dry shade, in fact, mine was planted 20 years ago in a woodland area of my property where my water hoses do not reach, growing under huge and thirsty sugar maples, and in those 20 years has spread to about 3 meters x 3 meters, growing 8-10" (20-25 cm) tall.  The flowers are cute, white parachute affairs held above trim foliage.

Here is more info on this small genus Vancouveria.  I really want to acquire V. chrysantha, not sure why the other two species are so hard to come by.  Are these grown in the UK or Europe?  Has anyone every tried hybridizing Vancouveria with Epimedium?

Vancouveria hexandra - white insideout flower
http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch?mode=symbol&keywordquery=VAHE
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0210+0547

Vancouveria chrysantha - Siskiyou insideout flower
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0106+1163
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0605+1171
...foliage and pods
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=1351+3163+4290+0084

Vancouveria planipetala
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_index&where-taxon=Vancouveria+planipetala
(A couple images in the gallery surely represent V. hexandra and not planipetala).

4-5  Two photos of Epimedium x youngianum 'Freckles' foliage... the after-bloom foliage shows the strong and irregular speckling to erratic leaf-mottling... some leaves almost entirely red or brownish red.  What I find interesting, is that hybrid seedlings from this plant almost always show the strong leaf mottling and spotting.  I had a self-sown seedling between this cultivar and E. grandiflorum 'Princess Susan' appear, just like a "Freckles" but with the clear white-sepalled pink-petalled flowers so well known from the cultivar 'Princess Susan'.

6    The clear white and pink flowers of E. grandiflorum 'Princess Susan', with a few yellow and white flowers of E. brevicornu x membranaceum in the corner.

7-10  E. campanulatum is one of the species that lacks prominent spurs, the flowers are tiny yellow thimble-bells produced in abundance.  I like this plant very much, it is so different than most, looking like a more decumbent version of the upright E. platypetalum that Olga showed.  This species (campanulatum) has me thinking... how true is it that most (almost all) Epimedium species are said to be self-sterile and require a 2nd species to be present for seed to be produced.  I wonder.  E. campanulatum has been flowering non-stop for 6 weeks, just coming to an end now, but sets a huge quantity of seed even though few other Epimedium blooms are available for cross-pollination.  In the photos, you'll see a plant that is finishing up flowering; it has nearly 50 stems, each stem has about 40-50 flowers produced over a long period, and I swear every single flower makes a pod... so there are about 2000 pods on one plant; each pod has 4 seeds in it, that's 8000 seeds!  I wonder if this species is self-fertile, I wonder the same about E. x setosum which also makes tons of seed even though most other Epimedium around it are done flowering.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on May 31, 2010, 11:31:34 AM
Mark - Here's is Vancouveria planipetalum here. Wonderful glossy foliage that would be interesting if captured in an Epimedium cross.

I'm surprised no one has attempted such an obvious cross.  You'd better get cracking.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on May 31, 2010, 11:42:38 AM
There are Plantfinder listings for V. hexandra, chrysantha and planipetala  suppliers in the UK.

I think John's right.... time for you to get cross pollinating, McMark!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on May 31, 2010, 12:31:30 PM
Mark - I'll watch out for seed but do remind me when you think they might be ready as I have no experience collecting Vancouveria seed.

I can't recall seeing V. chrysantha being offered in western Canada. Surely one of the west coast Amercian nurseries must sell them all.  The Oregon Hardy Plant Society website might be a good place to start.

We had one hot day here a week ago today - +29.5C but it has been cool and blustery ever since.  Last Thursday I was in PEI and it was dark, gusty and 8c.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 31, 2010, 03:38:47 PM
Mark - I'll watch out for seed but do remind me when you think they might be ready as I have no experience collecting Vancouveria seed.

I can't recall seeing V. chrysantha being offered in western Canada. Surely one of the west coast Amercian nurseries must sell them all.  The Oregon Hardy Plant Society website might be a good place to start.

We had one hot day here a week ago today - +29.5C but it has been cool and blustery ever since.  Last Thursday I was in PEI and it was dark, gusty and 8c.

johnw

John, I wasn't aware just how nice the foliage is on V. planipetalum, thanks for showing us this.

Just checked my large swath of Vancouveria hexandra, not one seed capsule to be found.  I can see that some rudimentary pods start forming then quickly shed, because they're not fertile; I suspect more than one clone is required for viable seed to be made.  John, in the link I posted of V. chrysantha, there's one photo showing foliage and pods... they are much like Epimedium pods, little stubby pods which are best picked *before* they actually dehisce and start dropping seed... the seeds will probably look something like epimedium seed, just like tiny fleshy green lima beans.  Not sure how they'd transport, but I suppose they could be packed in just barely moist vermiculite in a small plastic "zip lock" bag... I just sent off some fresh Jeffersonia dubia seed that way.

But, I also took a look, and there are North American sources for all three species... yay!

Going to be yet another very warm (hot?) breezy day.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 31, 2010, 03:47:02 PM
There are Plantfinder listings for V. hexandra, chrysantha and planipetala  suppliers in the UK.

I think John's right.... time for you to get cross pollinating, McMark!

As I type this, my hands are stained with pollen, both Epimedium and Vancouveria! :D :o

Never really thought of attempting to cross Vancouveria hexandra with Epimedium; I think Darrell Probst has tried it but t didn't work.  I went ahead and did some pollen dabbing just for the fun of it.  My thoughts, looking at the Vancouveria, even if it could cross with epimedium, is "so what", it has tiny white flowers... but I suppose the late flowering habit, total drought resistance, and possibly the curious flower shape if it could be passed along to progeny, might have merit.  And then again, we try such things, just... because ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 31, 2010, 04:05:52 PM
Up close, the little parachute shaped flowers of Vancouveria are cute.  I wonder, if Vancouveria and Epimedium could be crossed, what the flower shape would be like?  Some other late season Epimedium thoughts today:

1    Vancouveria hexandra - close-up of flowers

2    Epimedium fangii -  I was excited by this one at first, but the light yellow flowers are sort of a "let down", being thin textured and not well presented.  I like it better for the leathery 3-part foliage, the new foliage in bright red and bronze tones.  I think it'll be a useful one for hybridizing with.  I also have to move this plant where it can spread, the rhizomes are very long (up to 12" or 30 cm).

3    Epimedium brevicornu x membranaceum (#2) - I mentioned that only one of these crosses is everblooming like its parent membranaceum.  I take that back, as more of the now 3-year-old plants are showing the same tendency, with lots of new flower stems forming at this late season.

4-8 Epimedium elongatum - this is a new species in my garden, from Darrell Probst introduction.  It is native to high elevations (9,000 - 12,000 feet) in Sichuan Prov., China.  What is unique about this species, is its late flowering, mine just coming into flower; Darrell reports that it flowers in June for him, and July in the wild.  It is a delightful upright airy species, with crisp small leaflets, and perky yellow flowers with small dark red outer sepals.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on June 02, 2010, 01:50:26 PM
I think I like Epimedium "Oh My Memory" best... that one is E. latisepalum

 ;D
Yes, it is. I like it's liaves - long, hard and thorned.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on June 02, 2010, 01:52:49 PM
Pink Champagne
(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_3e5a857b.jpg)

(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_746c93e1.jpg)

Epimedium davidii
(http://cs9472.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_680435be.jpg)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 02, 2010, 03:16:22 PM
'Pink Champagne' is such a beautiful cultivar.  Olga, in your second photo, the out-of-focus leafy background is PERFECT, the bits of light looking just like champagne bubbles ;D  My 'Pink Champagne' is new to the garden this year, so just a little thing, but knowing it comes from similar parentage as 'Domino', I have every expectation that it becomes a sensation in the garden.  Speaking of 'Domino', it has done this whole 2nd-tier leafing-out thing, with a secondary show of blooms, the flowers near white in their second flush.  The second-flush stems reach 2' (60 cm) or more.

Do you know what form of E. davidii you have.  Of course, it is the classic yellow Epimedium... Garden Vision Epimediums sells about 5-6 forms of this, and I can say from experience some are much better growers than others.  My favorite form is one called E. davidii "Wolong Selections". Perusing the nursery rows Garden Vision Epimedium, there is a bed full of E. davidii that is a relative giant compared to most forms, with abundant more lush mottled foliage... I don't think that one has been offered yet.

One photo of E. 'Pink Champagne' among the nursery rows at Garden Vision Epimedium.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 02, 2010, 09:37:53 PM
That's a jolly useful map in your first link there Mark. It gave me a totally new perspective on where some states actually are. I always thought Ohio was somewhere west of the middle, for instance. And I've at last got all those little states in the east sorted out (not to mention Nova Scotia, New Brunswick etc). Of course I could always look at an atlas, but I don't unless there's a real need. :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: arisaema on June 08, 2010, 07:29:36 PM
Vancouveria hexandra is a nasty weed here, I've spent years trying to eradicate it.

E. sagittatum below, a huge disappointment, it was bought from China as E. brachyrrhizum :P
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 08, 2010, 10:01:28 PM
Vancouveria hexandra is a nasty weed here, I've spent years trying to eradicate it.

E. sagittatum below, a huge disappointment, it was bought from China as E. brachyrrhizum :P

The reason I planted my Vancouveria hexandra way down in my dry woods under Sugar Maples, is for that reason, it is known to spread too aggresively, so I didn't want to take any chances.  In the 20 years it's been there, it has spread into a large patch meters across, but not as far and wide as I expected.  There are some spreading or romping rhizomatous epimedium species that could easily outpace this Vancouveria.

Too bad about your E. brachyrrhizum, one of the very best species, but it is also one of the most available so maybe you can find a closer source. However, your E. sagittatum does have beautifully mottled new foliage, even if the flowers are minute.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 08, 2010, 10:06:50 PM
A late season Epimedium miscellany, the colorful second flushes of foliage winning the day.

1   Epimedium membranaceum x rhizomatosum - a young unremarkable plant.  The flowers on both species are similar, although larger, brighter, and more openly spreading in E. membranaceum (beautiful), lighter colored, smaller and more clawed (incurved) with rhizomatosum (negligible).  The flowers on the hybrid are intermediate between the two, but the shorter curved seed pods resembling rhizomatosum versus the much longer straight "baggy caterpillar" pods of membranaceum.  As the plant develops, it will be interesting to see what spreading or clumping growth habits it displays.

2-3 E. grandiflorum var. coelestre 'Alpine Beauty'- light chartreuse 2nd flush of foliage over a low brace of smooth dark green hearts. Being an alpine species, the growth and flowers are late to emerge compared to most other eppies; the flowers just peeking out from above and the perimeter of the low dense leafage.  The creamy yellow flowers are rounded in outline and have a thick substance to them.

4   E. fangii - I really like the cherry red new leaves among the older dark green 3-part leaves.

5   E. diphyllum 'Variegatum' - a delightful small plant at all seasons, the leaves show variable leaf coloring and degree of milk-spot variegation depending on the season.

6   E. grandiflorum hybrid plants (E. g. f. flavescens 'La Rocaille' x 'Larchmont') showing a colorful second flush.

7   E. grandiflorum 'Lavender Lady' - small foliage so densely packed that the mounds are firm to the touch, the second foliar flush shows many shades of color.

8   E. membranaceum x brevicornu (#2) - new leaf flushes (many) are nearly all white and pink, and new flushes of small white and yellow flowers keep on coming.

9   E. x 'Amanogawa' - second flush of coffee color foliage and more white flowers coming.

10  E. brachyrrhizum - second foliar flush just starting to show, but even without it, the low mound of rugose-textured dark green leaves is most appealing.  E. x youngianum 'Otome' is behind on the left.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on June 08, 2010, 11:13:32 PM
The reason I planted my Vancouveria hexandra way down in my dry woods under Sugar Maples, is for that reason, it is known to spread too aggresively, so I didn't want to take any chances.  I

Funny, we had this Vancouveria spreading like mad in a peaty bed. One year in early Spring we had to re-dig and refesh the bed. We lifted and carefully replanted the V. roots and they never showed again, not a single shoot.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on June 09, 2010, 06:48:32 PM
I got this unnamed Epimedium many years ago and it barely survived. However, this year it flowers for the first time. The flowers are huge - spurs nearly 4 cm. Not a good pic but perhaps someone can identfy it for me.
Cheers Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 09, 2010, 07:12:22 PM
I got this unnamed Epimedium many years ago and it barely survived. However, this year it flowers for the first time. The flowers are huge - spurs nearly 4 cm. Not a good pic but perhaps someone can identfy it for me.
Cheers Göte

It looks sort of like one I showed pictures of earlier, of an unidentified new species growing at Garden Vision Epimediums; http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg151646#msg151646

It also looks similar to some of the lighter color E. acuminatum forms and hybrids.  Can you show a photo of a couple flowers lifted up to see the cup?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on June 09, 2010, 07:30:11 PM
I got this unnamed Epimedium many years ago and it barely survived. However, this year it flowers for the first time. The flowers are huge - spurs nearly 4 cm. Not a good pic but perhaps someone can identfy it for me.
Cheers Göte

It looks sort of like one I showed pictures of earlier, of an unidentified new species growing at Garden Vision Epimediums; http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg151646#msg151646

It also looks similar to some of the lighter color E. acuminatum forms and hybrids.  Can you show a photo of a couple flowers lifted up to see the cup?
It is much larger than acuminatum (flower is). I will try to get a closeup later but today the concentration of mosquitos is about 4 per gallon of air where it grows. The heavy snow cover this year saved not only a lot of herbaceous plants but also a lot of obnoxious critters.
Göte
 
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 09, 2010, 07:58:48 PM
It is much larger than acuminatum (flower is). I will try to get a closeup later but today the concentration of mosquitos is about 4 per gallon of air where it grows. The heavy snow cover this year saved not only a lot of herbaceous plants but also a lot of obnoxious critters.
Göte
 

I hear you on the mosquitos... with record breaking rains (100-year flooding) in March, followed by good warm (to hot) weather almost all spring, means that the gnats were outrageous (also called may flies) earlier on, but they are mostly over now, the mosquitoes are terrible in wooded spots, around leafy vegetation, or anywhere near dusk, but the most infuriating are are deer flies (small, incredibly fast biting flies related to horse flies).  They zero-in on you, and then buzz violently and incessantly around your head, following one around the yard, frequently trying to land someplace on you and bite.  By the way, if I'm invited to a garden party, I'm the designated mosquito magnet and everyone else can enjoy themselves mosquito-free ;D >:(
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: arisaema on June 10, 2010, 11:09:03 AM
Too bad about your E. brachyrrhizum, one of the very best species, but it is also one of the most available so maybe you can find a closer source. However, your E. sagittatum does have beautifully mottled new foliage, even if the flowers are minute.

China is ironically the closest, cheapest and easiest source I have, being outside the EU means you're cut of from ordering from pretty much every European nursery - and Norway is stuck in the dark ages when it comes to horticulture.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on June 10, 2010, 01:36:31 PM
I have a determination question too.
I received these pics from a friend today. They show the new leaf and two (very unclear) shots of the flower. My guess would be E. acuminatum. What do you reckon?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 10, 2010, 02:08:56 PM
I have a determination question too.
I received these pics from a friend today. They show the new leaf and two (very unclear) shots of the flower. My guess would be E. acuminatum. What do you reckon?

Hard to tell for sure; it does look like E. acuminatum, yet the spurs are very long and more outward reaching, rather than incurved compared to the form I'm familiar with, shown previously at:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg151634#msg151634. 

But then again, from looking at John Jearrard's Epimedium pages, it seems that the species is variable, and some have incurved spurs and others have more outward splayed spurs that look like your friend's plant.  The foliage certainly is handsomely colored.
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimedium.html
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on June 11, 2010, 09:23:37 AM
I have a determination question too.
I received these pics from a friend today. They show the new leaf and two (very unclear) shots of the flower. My guess would be E. acuminatum. What do you reckon?
Looks like acuminatum to mee. The pic is from a plant bought from Peters and originally collected by Roy Lancaster so it should be correct.
My leaves (the ones on the side) look the same except that mine are all green.
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on June 11, 2010, 09:36:42 AM
Thanks for confirming my ident, Mark & Göte.

I was in doubt because of the colouration of the leaves but there seems to be a lot af variation within the species indeed.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 16, 2010, 11:13:26 PM
Still much to do in "late epimedium season", even after most of the seed has been harvested and sown.  I've been observing some species and hybrid seedlings, and questions and objectives come to mind.  First, there's the everbloomer, E. membranaceum, each day presents 2-3 dozen flowers, large, graceful, bright yellow spider flowers (and much more seed coming).  This will flower until frost. 

New this year for me, is E. elongatum, I showed this a few messages ago, but I'm taken with it's delicate yet substantial upright habit, smallish pie-crust-edge leaves, red stems, and long succession of small to medium yellow starry flowers with red outer sepals.  It begins blooming very late, a valued characteristic. I'm always looking for Epimedium pollen this late in the season, and every now and then a second floral flush occurs on some epimediums, such as it did on E. x 'Amanogawa' recently, and I literally become giddy stealing the flowers and dabbing pollen on these two yellow eppies.

Still potting up lots of self-sown eppie hybrid seedlings, labeling which mother plant they were found under, to be grown on for 2-3 years until they flower and develop sufficiently, to determine their worthiness.  I find it surprising that many of the named Epimedium cultivars long established in cultivation originated as a "chance seedling" in this person's garden or that person's nursery, when in fact, I get hundreds upon hundreds of seedlings showing up each year (haven't named any yet though ;D).


1   E. membranaceum - close-up view of a few fresh flowers on my "pollen parent" plant.

2   E. membranaceum flowers up against Saruma henryi, this is my larger OP (open pollinated) plant.

3   E. elongatum - in center, with E. membranaceum pollen parent plant behind it to the left.

4   Planting ring under Cornus kousa 'Milky Way', up to about 120 epimedium seedlings will go under here in 2010.  This spring I dug out about 150 3-year old eppie seedlings from this location to other spots in the garden, some were given away to a local Garden Club plant sale.

5-6 E. hybrid from youngianum 'Liliputian', 3-year old, one of the most dense, tightest seedlings showing strong speckling and occasional all red leaves in new foliage flush.

7-8 Eight flats of approximately 25 eppie seedlings each (2010 self-sown seedlings); about 200 plants.  There are still many more seedlings to gather up and evaluate.

9   E. x youngianum 'Freckles' x grandiflorum 'Princess_Susan' - a spontaneous seedling near where both these plants grow, had the bright clearly separated white and pink flowers of 'Princess Susan', but with the strong speckling of 'Freckles'.

10  E. davidii seedling, showing some nice leaf coloring.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on June 19, 2010, 08:39:07 PM
Mark - I had no idea we had Vancouveria chrysantha so I will watch for seeds for you. Ken says it came through last winter with flying colours. The glandular-pilose scapes are hardly discernible in the photo.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 19, 2010, 09:10:45 PM
Mark - I had no idea we had Vancouveria chrysantha so I will watch for seeds for you. Ken says it came through last winter with flying colours. The glandular-pilose scapes are hardly discernible in the photo.

johnw

That's fantastic John, just look at those little golden parachutes! :D  What a terrific little plant; the trim leaves and black stems are very good too, this plant has it all going on.

If your clone does manage to set some seed, I would indeed love to try them... I'm sure we can find something to swap.  Thanks for showing this seldom seen plant to the forum.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 23, 2010, 03:20:41 PM
Epimedium membranaceum continues to bloom heavily, as it'll keep doing so until frost. And so, there continues to be seed produced.  With the late-blooming E. elongatum, and hybrid progeny from E. membranaceum (x brevicornu, x rhizomatosum), and the occasional late flower flush on other species/hybrids, there are enough eppie flowers around to continue the flow of seed production.

1    E. membranaceum flowers.  The long wiry, indeterminate branching and arching stems literally form a tangle.  With dozens of such arching stems, there might be anywhere from 20-50 big yellow spider flowers each day.  The plant shown is my pollen parent plant, every flower gets hand pollinated.  I have a much larger plant that serves as an open-pollinated (OP) plant.  Ooh, a few unusual secondary flushes of bloom on E. grandiflorum 'Princess Susan' today, let me get that pollen.

2    Every week I collect the maturing seed pods.  In this harvest, about 200 seeds.  The flat has 50+ seeds sown, the small stick serves as a divider showing to what point the flat is sown, or I might sow seed a different species on the other side.

3    The pods remind me of baggy caterpillars, each containing about 3-9 seeds.  These long capsules are a bit tricky to get the seed out without squishing them... it helps to have long enough finger nails, grab the pod in the center, lightly pinch finger nails just between the adjacent seeds inside (you can feel the seeds within, like little bumps), then twist in opposite directions, then gently squeeze the seeds out.

4    close-up of the seeds, they remind me of lima beans, in fact, they smell like peas or lima beans.

5    much of the harvest of this OP seed is being sent to someone; the seeds placed in 2"x3" ziplock bags.

6    seed packet ready to go, with a bit of barely moistened vermiculite packing.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 29, 2010, 05:02:42 AM
Today I divided a large Epimedium membranaceum plant.  It was planted as a tiny young start 5 years ago in 2005.  I typically don't divide my Epimediums, even though I should, as I hate to disturb them, they don't need to be divided other than to get more plants, and dividing them is very difficult (to darned near impossible, one practically needs a power saw to cut through the tough dense rhizome mass!).  Ended up getting 3 large divisions, the photos showing two divisions replanted, and a third division potted to give to a friend.  Notice in the potted plant, that even at this late date, the ziggy-zaggy flower stems still have flowers and are loaded with buds (and seed pods).
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on July 06, 2010, 11:37:50 AM
Vancouveria hexandra is a nasty weed here, I've spent years trying to eradicate it.

E. sagittatum below, a huge disappointment, it was bought from China as E. brachyrrhizum :P
That is funny, It is not a weed in my place but I keep it under Rodgersias and Cimcifugas.
Perhaps I am just a bad gardener who cannot grow Vancouveria as well as you do.  :P
I have got brachyrrhizum and could possibly spare a small piece next spring. Remind me then if you still are looking for it
Cheers
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: arisaema on July 18, 2010, 10:56:11 AM
That is funny, It is not a weed in my place but I keep it under Rodgersias and Cimcifugas.
Perhaps I am just a bad gardener who cannot grow Vancouveria as well as you do.  :P
I have got brachyrrhizum and could possibly spare a small piece next spring. Remind me then if you still are looking for it

Just discovered this, I'd love to trade for a piece of it - will do my best to remember!

Maybe it's the peaty soil my Vancouveria was planted in, or maybe it's the wet climate, but it went absolutely mad here :P
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 27, 2010, 04:46:03 AM
Following the spring display of Epimedium flowers, and the few summer-blooming types, I've been carefully reviewing the foliage on Epimedium species and cultivars, after all, much of the year it is their foliage that's the main attraction. Also, I review them with a new eye as I launch into an ambitious Epimedium hybridization program, looking for best characteristics, paying special attention to those that are truly drought-resistant (many get stressed under prolonged drought).  Most interesting this time of year, is the fall color "signature" of many epimedium.  Studying the autumn color (as well as the remarkable spring foliar colors), gives clues about various traits and species lineages, the signature fall colors often showing in hybrid progeny.  What follows are some random thoughts of Epimedium that I like:

1.   E. ilicifolium - the narrowish spiny-edged leaves make a concise dwarf clumping plant.  No fall color per se, but evergreen and small, with yellow flowers, this is a plant I shall be working with based on its growth habit.

2.   E. brachyrrhizum - I'm showing a young plant here, I have some gorgeous large clumps, one of the VERY BEST species in every aspect.  Evergreen leaves, it sometimes throws new growth of plum red; a great clumper, not a runner.  Excellent potential for hybridization.

3.   E. sempervirens 'Secret Arrow' - sempervirens is a key species in a hybridization program, absolutely drought-tolerant, not blinking an eye during this summer's record-breaking drought.  Hybrids involving sempervirens are equally drought-tolerant.  This particular selection introduced in 2000 by Garden Vision Epimediums is fantastic during all seasons, a low-growing clumper, but the fall color is outstanding.

4.   Darrell Probst introduced 9-10 different forms of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens, which he numbered to keep them separate; all are nice, all are distinct.  This is E. grandiflorum f. flavescens #5, which takes on a unique caramel color in fall, highlighted by brown veins.

5.   E. grandiflorum 'Tancho' - fall color reminds me of Lays Potato Chips, heart-shaped leaves are a very pale yellow with thin brown edging and veins.

6.   E. x youngianum 'Hagoromo' - hot pink fall color on this small one, and the delicate white and lavender flowers are slender and utterly unique.

7.   E. x youngianum 'Tamabotan' - a kaleidascope of dark purple foliage colors in spring and into summer, but the fall color is a diaphanous light pink color.  A number of other Epimedium take on such autumn colors.

8.   E. lishihchenii - one of the best species, heavy textured evergreen foliage is low and spreading, and very long season (into summer) of large spidery yellow flowers.  In autumn, the shiny rugose red-flushed leathery leaves are outstanding.

9.   E. x 'Black Sea'- a truly unique cultivar in every respect, in autumn and winter the evergreen foliage turns an unusual red-black shiny foliage.  In this photo, the color is just starting, by December it is near black.

10.  Epimedium x setosum - evergreen hybrids between E. diphyllum and E. sempervirens, this is by far one of my favorites. Clump forming plants covered with minute pure white flowers in spring, in fall taking on orange red foliage colors with green veining.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 27, 2010, 05:05:30 AM
Observing a large batch of 3 year old Epimedium seedlings, I'm having some interesting results.  The most important realization came this summer with prolonged heat and drought that devastated the foliage on many Epimedium grandiflorum and youngianum cultivars, with almost all foliage toasted to a crisp, those hybrid plants that had evergreen species in their lineage, such as sempervirens and pubigerum, laughed at the drought and looked as deep green and fresh as they did in spring.

I'm particularly excited by a batch of seedlings from E. youngianum 'Liliputian', one of the smallest varieties with white flowers, which crossed with some nearby evergreen species; either pubigerum, sempervirens 'Candy Hearts', or x sasakii (itself, a natural diphyllum x sempervirens cross).  The resulting plants are all very dark green, evergreen, compact, and drought-tolerant.  One plant is particularly small, a real dwarf with concise leaves and tiny evergreen leaflets smaller than a fingernail.

1    Epimedium - evergreen 'Liliputian' hybrids in front row
2    Selected dwarf evergreen 'Liliputian' hybrid, showing the brace of tiny evergreen leaves at the base, basal leaves only about 1" tall
      (it is my belief that the evergreen parent is E. sempervirens or E. pubigerum)
3    E. membranaceum x rhizomatosum cross, not great, but flowered all summer long, even in the drought.  Here, flowering in September.
4    E. membranaceum - 2 year old hybrid seedling, can't wait until spring!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: annew on October 27, 2010, 08:21:47 AM
They look really exciting, Mark. We could certainly do with some more drought-tolerant varieties.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 29, 2010, 04:59:01 PM
It's hard to resist those perky little self-sown Epimedium seedlings.  Here are three seedlings from E. sempervirens 'Mars', you can catch a bit of the rust-orange fall foliage color on Mars to the right.  Each seedling has taken on different fall colors, little hearts of promise.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gote on November 03, 2010, 02:03:25 PM
Really nice Mark,
I must keep a better look at the autumn colours.
Crocus speciosus would be good nearby, adding some accent to the yellow/red.
Göte
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 04, 2010, 06:07:16 PM
Every autumn I struggle with the same dilemma, whether to shear back Epimedium foliage in the autumn or wait until spring.

The mounds of foliage have such presence this time of year, some still dark green while many plants are already dormant, other epimediums lasting well into autumn and early winter with persistent and brightly colored foliage.  It typically goes like this; I plan on shearing the foliage after most leaves are killed off with the onset the really cold weather, but as it so often works out, a heavy snow arrives and the weather turns frigid, burying the plants in snowy ice-pack, so now I have to wait until spring.  But in spring, the "eppies" can start sprouting so early, it becomes *very labor intensive* to careful snip off all of the dead or battered foliage and twiggy remains of stems, without damaging new growth and inadvertently cutting off flower stems. With several hundred maturing eppies in the garden, the spring cleanup can be a nightmare if the old foliage isn't removed in time.

It's November, and foliage mounds of Epimedium still make a visual impact... what should I do, what should I do?  If I were smart about it, I would shear off all foliage very soon!

1-2  Colorful Epimedium foliage in the autumn garden.
3     Epimedium brevicornu with yellow foliage.
4     Epimedirum sempervirens 'White Purity' with leathery red fall leaves. I leave the foliage on
      most sempervirens forms, some overwinter quite well.
5     Epimedium x vesisolor 'Versicolor' - one that is "semi-evergreen", I usuall leave the foliage on
      and snip off old foliage in late winter.
6     Epimedium grandiflorum var. coelestre 'Alpine Beauty' - colorful!
7     Epimedium planting near my deck stairs.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on November 04, 2010, 09:27:58 PM
Those are stunning foliage plants in the autumn Mark.

I have great hopes of my batch of Epimedium seedlings from hybrid seed sent to me a while back. I've had the first flowers, all white or nearly so, with a pinky-brown in the centres. Only 4 (of 54) have flowered so far and at present there is some nice leaf colour variation. When the rain stops I'll take some pictures. I have no idea at all what parents could be involved.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 04, 2010, 09:59:19 PM
Those are stunning foliage plants in the autumn Mark.

I have great hopes of my batch of Epimedium seedlings from hybrid seed sent to me a while back. I've had the first flowers, all white or nearly so, with a pinky-brown in the centres. Only 4 (of 54) have flowered so far and at present there is some nice leaf colour variation. When the rain stops I'll take some pictures. I have no idea at all what parents could be involved.

Leslie, where did you get the seed from?  I would indeed like to see any seedlings that flower for you, or have particularly colorful spring foliage... looking forward to it. :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 11, 2010, 04:17:36 AM
Approaching mid November, some epimediums are still showing colorful fall foliage.

1.   E. lishihchenii is coloring up fantastic this year.  I showed this earlier, where the leathery veined leaves are red-hued, but the color now is most impressive.  I see this as a species to play a primary role in hybridization efforts.  I used many of the spidery yellow flowers to cross with other pollen parents, but next year I need to focus in on hybrids with this plant.  The full sheath of highly colored evergreen leaves are about 6" tall by about 24" across, never dropping a leaf during our intense drought this past summer.

2.   Two E. grandiflorum cultivars, 'Purple Prince' on the left, 'Princess Susan' on the right.

3.   The common E. x rubrum turns burnished leather brown-red colors in the fall and early winter.

4.   E. grandiflorum cultivar, dark chocolate colored leaves, distinctive.

5.   Two evergreen E. sempervirens cultivars, 'Aurora' on the left is still green, 'Vega' on the right.

6.   E. x 'Enchantress', a hybrid between E. dolichostemon and E. leptorrhizum.  It is a large clump but shed about 90% of its leaves during this summer's record drought, so only a few evergreen leaves remain.  Too bad, because they are a deep blackish-purple color in fall.  Today I moved the plant to a more moisture-retentive spot.

7.   A view of three 3-year old Epimedium hybrid seedlings, the one in the center is taking on a unique blackish color to the leaves, don't know from what parent this comes from.

8.   One of 9-10 E. x youngianum 'Liliputian' hybrids (which crossed with one of several possible evergreen species), with small evergreen leaflets and diverse leaf petioles.  The previous black-leaf hybrid seedling can be seen in the upper right.

I have decided in some parts of the garden this year, I will finally be proactive and shear some of my Epimediums in the fall (now) rather than in spring, which if I wait too long in the spring, means tons more cleanup work than doing it in the fall, see this separate posting:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=274.msg4809#msg4809
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 13, 2010, 04:17:53 AM
I'm a sucker for Epimedium seedlings, they're so cute.  The initial leaf is not necessarily indicative of what the plant will look like, even spiny narrow-leaf types will have a roughly heart shaped first leaf.  The photo shows a flat of E. sempervirens 'Mars' seedlings, about 20 of them or so, but just a few in this view.  On the left, we're seeing a seedling with second or third leaflets, also showing some fall color, but I'm intrigued by the lobes on the upper-most leaflet.  This is the fun part, imagining what the hybrid plants will look like, will they be anything new and special.  Some seedlings flower the second year from seed, but it requires a minimum of 3 years to know what the plant character will be like.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 14, 2010, 01:59:21 PM
You are not the only sucker around Mark ;)

Yesterday we were treated to a talk by Keith Wiley ex gardener at The Garden House Buckland Monocorum, proponent of new naturalism in gardening

http://www.wileyatwildside.com/2.html

The talk was fascinating, well worth me looking forward to it for nearly a year!  I picked up this Epimedium, a seedling from Wildside with the name 'Buff Beauty' it has  "pale amber flowers and bronze tinted young foliage."  Thought you might like to see it.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 14, 2010, 02:31:02 PM
You are not the only sucker around Mark ;)

Yesterday we were treated to a talk by Keith Wiley ex gardener at The Garden House Buckland Monocorum, proponent of new naturalism in gardening

http://www.wileyatwildside.com/2.html

The talk was fascinating, well worth me looking forward to it for nearly a year!  I picked up this Epimedium, a seedling from Wildside with the name 'Buff Beauty' it has  "pale amber flowers and bronze tinted young foliage."  Thought you might like to see it.

Oooh, lucky you, what a delicate beauty 'Buff Beauty' is! Looks like it might have some E. davidii in it lineage, I hope to be as lucky with my hybridization efforts.  Brian, do you know if 'Buff Beauty' is a hybrid that occurred at Wildside and is of their own naming?

Interesting about the naturalism gardening movement; I think I'm part way there without even realizing it :D  I'll look for a 2nd hand copy of Mr. Wiley's On The Wild Side book from Timber Press... I constantly get emails from Timber Press with all kinds of discounts and special offers, but I just delete the emails these days to avoid the temptation until I'm back to employment.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 14, 2010, 03:12:28 PM
Brian, do you know if 'Buff Beauty' is a hybrid that occurred at Wildside and is of their own naming?

Mark the label says "A seedling selected at Wildside" so I am assuming it is one of their own naming too.  I'm pleased you like it ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 14, 2010, 03:17:12 PM
 Incidentally that's why I bought it, happy memories are what gardens are all about to me. I also bought a North American Chrysanthemum 'Hillside Apricot', a sterile Lychnis coronaria x L. flos jovis 'Hill Grounds' and Daphne x rolsdorfii 'Wilhelm Schact'....thank goodness there were no snowdrops 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 14, 2010, 03:22:05 PM
Incidentally that's why I bought it, happy memories are what gardens are all about to me. I also bought a North American Chrysanthemum 'Hillside Apricot', a sterile Lychnis coronaria x L. flos jovis 'Hill Grounds' and Daphne x rolsdorfii 'Wilhelm Schact'....thank goodness there were no snowdrops 8)

Sounds like you got some real goodies, all with a "hill" theme ;D  Even the last one looks like "Hil" to this dyslexic gardening nut.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 14, 2010, 03:32:44 PM
It seemed to go with Keith's garden, he has sculpted four acres into canyons and banks, some areas have only 2 cm topsoil, others four foot.  This means he can grow a huge variety of plants, including bog plants in the pools with things like Beschorneria yuccoides on the bank!  He has had enormous growth on the plants in the first few years and it is a very exciting concept.  Earlier this year he was on a programme called "The Landscape Man" in which he was making an area based on ideas from Mexico with soft apricot adobe walls and raised beds.  Other areas of the garden include a wisteria wood where you can walk beneath the plants, here there is quite a lot of woodland planting.  His next project is moving most of the Michaelmas daisies and planting areas of Agapanthus...A man with a vision.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 14, 2010, 03:37:57 PM
Interesting about the naturalism gardening movement; I think I'm part way there without even realizing it :D  I

You might also be interested in this Mark

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/landscape-man/wildside-nursery-garden-photo-gallery-10-04-07_p_1.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/gardenstovisit/5887019/Garden-to-visit-Keith-Wileys-Wildside-Nursery.html

http://www.gardenersclick.com/gardeningarticles/view/keith_wileys_wildside

and a couple of pictures here

http://www.combleyplants.co.uk/wildside.htm
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 14, 2010, 07:49:14 PM
Brian, fascinating and inspiring garden design... I particularly like the photo in the third link (click on the pic to enlarge it) with repeated patchwork quilt displays of what looks like phlox and dianthus, the landscape formed and bermed, but with almost no rocks. Some of the garden views have a definite wild look or prairie-eqsue feel to them, which is most appealing and inviting. 

There is a place for gardens that utilize "soil sculpturing" to create interest, without the need of tons of rock, I intend on my garden being one such example.  I'm admiring the look and feel of the epimedium beds that I have expanded, they create their own landscape environs so to speak, because of their mix of evergreen-ness and deciduous type, their foliage color persisting into winter well after all tree leaves have dropped.  I'm just getting started! 

Sunny and mild today, about 50 F (10 C), just ran outside and snapped a few photos of the epimediums beds; ones that I have not had the heart to shear off the foliage, they're giving too much visual enjoyment currently.

1-4   Views of an Epimedium beds I started a few years ago, and in process of expanding down a slope.
5      Epimedium brachyrrhizum stays evergreen here, beautiful foliage clumps, behind it is E. x youngianum 'Otome', also with near evergreen leaves, showing that it must have some sempervirens in its lineage... Darrell Probst mentioned that many cultivars are placed in this or that Epimedium group to which it looks the most similar, but in fact species other than grandiflorum and diphyllum are involved in the make-up of some "x youngianum" cultivars.  The cultivar 'Otome' has unique rounded Peperomia-shaped leaves that are deeply veined and beautiful colored, it is a plant that I'll focus in on for hybridization.
6      Epimedium stellulatum on the left, nice veined evergreen leaves, E. x versicolor 'Cupreum' on the right, nearly evergreen and intense fall foliage color.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 14, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
Mark, your epimedium tapestries are wonderful.  Keith also likes acers and grasses and plants them at the top of the banks to get the sun shining through them, he showed us some quite magical pictures of the garden.  The most overwhelming impression is of the carpets of 'wall to wall' colour.  He first removed all the topsoil, apart from a small patch of orchard which remains, then after all the sculpting it was returned to the site.  There is still more to be done to about an acre as time and money allows.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on November 15, 2010, 07:20:26 AM
Mark,

all those autumn colours are very beautiful. You simply can't not love Epi's when you look at these.  ;)

Not that I'm curious or anything  ::) ::) but what are you growing in the black "gutter" with all the labels in picture 1 and 2?

Cheers

Wim
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 15, 2010, 03:38:11 PM
Mark,

all those autumn colours are very beautiful. You simply can't not love Epi's when you look at these.  ;)

Not that I'm curious or anything  ::) ::) but what are you growing in the black "gutter" with all the labels in picture 1 and 2?

Cheers

Wim

The "black gutter" is one of two batches of seed flats sown with my 2010 manually made Epimedium crosses, a total of approximately 50 peat flats sown... I'll be very busy in 2011!  All are covered with wire mesh to keep the squirrels and chipmunks out.  In the photo I have uploaded you can see these flats closer up, with one of my Epimedium membranaceum x brevicornu hybrids (#2), which surprisingly had some foliage turn brightly colored as if new foliage but these are old leaves.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on November 15, 2010, 08:23:35 PM
Interesting hybrid, indeed. E. brevicornu has splashes like that when it's leaves emerge in spring, if I'm correct? What kind of flowers does your hybrid have?

50 peat flats  :o :o Is this the beginning of Garden Vision: the second edition?  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 15, 2010, 08:59:44 PM
Interesting hybrid, indeed. E. brevicornu has splashes like that when it's leaves emerge in spring, if I'm correct? What kind of flowers does your hybrid have?

50 peat flats  :o :o Is this the beginning of Garden Vision: the second edition?  ;)

Wim, I documented these earlier in the thread, but I have gathered up links to the past posts for easier retrieval. I had a number of seedlings found under E. brevicornu and membranaceum, the two plants growing slammed up against each other.  The hybrids look very consistent in flower, being little yellow and white flowers that are about 3 times the size of the tiny E. brevicornu flowers, but the growth of all but one seedling strongly follows the pattern of E. membranaceum, the other one seedling makes a more upright tuft with more rounded leaflets looking closer to brevicornu.  The best feature to find in this cross, is that membranaceum lends its everblooming characteristic to its progeny, so these things flower well into August or even September!  One seedling in particular, simply labeled E. membranaceum x brevicornu (#2) has the most outrageous brilliant foliage in spring (see link).  This year, I made lots and lots of hand crosses with membranaceum, but also with brevicornu too, plus I sowed lots of OP seed on each... the anticipation is making me crazy ;D

Darrell Probst has moved on to other plant genera to hybridize, there's still lots of work to be done and infinite possibilities, so be looking for Marks' Vision ;D  I have nearly 2 acres of land, so still lots of space to pack in Epimediums of every sort.

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg155733#msg155733
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg154480#msg154480
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg153802#msg153802
...and the main link showing the amazing spring foliage (note, listed in photos as brevicornu x membranaceum, I now believe the cross is the other way around)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg149686#msg149686

specific photo links, for the ones that have foliage and growth like membranaceum:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4769.0;attach=224695;image
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4769.0;attach=227070;image

one hybrid that has foliage and growth more like brevicornu:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4769.0;attach=223735;image
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on November 16, 2010, 03:06:59 PM

Wim, I documented these earlier in the thread, but I have gathered up links to the past posts for easier retrieval. I had a number of seedlings found under E. brevicornu and membranaceum, the two plants growing slammed up against each other.  The hybrids look very consistent in flower, being little yellow and white flowers that are about 3 times the size of the tiny E. brevicornu flowers, but the growth of all but one seedling strongly follows the pattern of E. membranaceum, the other one seedling makes a more upright tuft with more rounded leaflets looking closer to brevicornu.  The best feature to find in this cross, is that membranaceum lends its everblooming characteristic to its progeny, so these things flower well into August or even September!  One seedling in particular, simply labeled E. membranaceum x brevicornu (#2) has the most outrageous brilliant foliage in spring (see link).  This year, I made lots and lots of hand crosses with membranaceum, but also with brevicornu too, plus I sowed lots of OP seed on each... the anticipation is making me crazy ;D

Darrell Probst has moved on to other plant genera to hybridize, there's still lots of work to be done and infinite possibilities, so be looking for Marks' Vision ;D  I have nearly 2 acres of land, so still lots of space to pack in Epimediums of every sort.


Thanks for the links, Marc. interesting hybrids. I like them a lot. Over here E. membranaceum is considered not very easy to grow so I don't have it.

A couple of greenhouses on your 2 acres and you can start a business.  ;) Let me know when Mark's Vision starts selling   ;D ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 16, 2010, 03:49:01 PM

Thanks for the links, Marc. interesting hybrids. I like them a lot. Over here E. membranaceum is considered not very easy to grow so I don't have it.
A couple of greenhouses on your 2 acres and you can start a business.  ;) Let me know when Mark's Vision starts selling   ;D ;)

Hmmm, I shouldn't think E. membranaceum would be hard to grow, it seems to like shade and moisture, and gives no indication of any difficulty in cultivation.  You should try to get it, I believe it to be the very best of the yellows, flowering all summer long (and flowering LOTS).

The hybrids are interesting, but not worthy of introduction.  They serve the purpose of revealing hybrids quite intermediate between the parents, and proving that the everblooming characteristic can be passed to progeny.  I will use these to do further hybridization with, in fact, I did that this past spring and summer.

Regarding my Vision, I chipped my glasses and need a new pair ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 24, 2010, 04:22:20 AM
Some recent nights well below freezing mark the end of "Epimedium fall color fantasy" for many eppie varieties, but not all, some of the more evergreen sorts go into what I call the "slow burn", with rich foliar color lasting well into winter.

1.    E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' has the most unusual autumn foliage scheme, an inner center of yellow but outer leaves a deep dark chocolate brown color.

2-3. E. lishihchenii, an evergreen species, is a candidate for "best fall color on an evergreen species"; a rich burnished red color on shiny evergreen leaves, with deep red veining.  Looks great all winter and into spring, this is probably the most dependable winter-evergreen species for New England.

4.    E. x 'Domino' - you'll see a hit of color on a few leaves, but basically one of many Chinese species and hybrids involving Chinese species that tend to be winter evergreen, thus still having a strong presence  in the late autumn and early winter garden.

5.    E. diphyllum 'Variegatum' - a great all around plant, colorful red/honey/coffee spring color foliage, foliage stippled with white in later spring and summer, and a slow burn of mahogany leather red in autumn.

6.    E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' - tries to be fully evergreen but best regarded as semi-evergreen, rich red coloring starts early in fall and lasts well into winter.  A beauty.

7.    E. x youngianum 'Otome'- one of the very best youngianum types for all seasons, beloved for the very rounded deeply netted leaves that have an evergreen substance to them year round; I'm convinced that this "youngianum" has sempervirens blood in it, accounting for the shiny nearly evergreen leaves.  Beautiful leather leaf colors.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 29, 2010, 03:43:11 PM
After viewing some photo galleries showing Epimedium sutchuenense (of possibly questionable identity) I thought I'd post a couple photos taken this spring.  My plant came from Darrell Probst, who writes about this species in the Garden Vision Epimediums nursery catalog "Finally the REAL E. sutchuenense, from the mountains of Shaanxi and northwest Hubei Provinces", and "superficially resembling E. leptorrhizum, with large, lavender mauve flowers and long, thin 8-12" rhizomes", "two leaves on every flower stem, each with three medium-sized leaflets".

Taking a cue from Darrell's description of the long annual rhizomes, this is not a plant for close company but more suitable to a large woodland area where it can spread, I have planted it in a wilder portion of my woodland accordingly.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 01, 2010, 06:24:25 AM
On this last day of November 30th, 2010, there are still many Epimedium varieties showing color.  This year I have cut many of the more overtly deciduous species back, easing the spring cleanup, but I leave the many semi-evergreen and full evergreen types, as their presence is so colorful and prominent.  The following 3-part series is not only an exhibition of the fall colors on these fine plants, but also serves as a photographic record of what these plants look like in their fall garb.  So often Epimedium photos are just mere closeups of a few flowers, I believe it is far more important to impart an impression of the whole plant as it may inhabit one's garden.

1.  E. sempervirens 'Vega' - one of the very best sempervirens types with glossy foliage and clumping habit, this photo shows recently divided plants showing strong red coloration to the foliage.  This one will play a role in my hybridization efforts.

2.  A view of various sempervirens hybrids, the one in the foreground having blackish fall foliage.

3.  E. sempervirens 'Secret Arrow', perhaps the best and longest last fall color of sempervirens types.

4.  E. sempervirens "Variegated No.1" - I posted on the amazing hot red, pink and white spring color of this eppie; the fall foliage is more somber, a dark brownish purple color.

5.  E. sempervirens 'White Purity' on the left (strong red oliage color) and 'Asiatic Hybrid' above and on the right, taking on more muted purplish-red foliage tones.

6.  Three E. sempervirens forms, a violet-flowered form with red fall color on the left, 'Aurora' in the center staying green, and what Garden Vision a "typical form" of E. sempervirens", with red fall color, in the lower right.

7-8 A patch of E. pauciflorum on a steep woodland slope.

9.  My selected hybrid seedling of E. x youngianum 'Liliputian' crossed with an evergreen species (likely E. pubigerum or E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts').  This is the smallest Epimedium of all, so I have a careful watch on this little gem, only recently at this late point in the season is it showing some dark foliage.

10. E. diphyllum 'Variegatum', with lustrous leathery coppery red foliage, with a pinkish-flowered form of evergreen E. pubigerum behind it.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 01, 2010, 01:02:49 PM
Part 2,

11    E. membranaceum x brevicornu No.2 - fine golden fall color, good clumping habit akin to E. brevicornu

12    E. membranaceum x brevicornu No.3 - wider more open growth than No.2 similar to membranaceum

13-15 E. membranaceum hybrid seedlings, various 2-year hybrid seedlings   

16    E. brachyrrhizum - beautiful dense mounds of shiny, rugose dark evergreen leaves, sometimes colored. There's hardly a better clumping species than this one, and totally drought-resistant too.

17    E. stellulatum - makes a wide, low clump of spine-edged evergreen leaves.  The late fall and winter foliage continues to deepen in russet color, highlighting strong venation. Superb drought-resistant species.

18    E. fargesii - 2-year hybrid seedling - the parent plant grows near some choice eppie species and cultivars, this is the part of gardening that I love, the prolonged anticipation of a plant's first flowering.

19    E. grandiflorum 'Orion' - very late to color, but worth the wait, a beautiful orange color.

20    E. x 'Black Sea' - reported as a hybrid between E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum and pubigerum, this is one the finest eppies ever.  The foliage is always excellent, but thee fall & winter color almost doesn't look real, like shiny leather in coffee-red tones that will deepen over time to near black.  Drought-resistant plant.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 01, 2010, 01:37:39 PM
Part 3,

21    E. x versicolor 'Versicolor' - rich red semi-evergreen foliage, and the ever-widening mat of E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum 'Thunderbolt' with superb evergreen foliage, deepening to near black in winter, highlighted by green venation.

22    E. x youngianum 'Otome'- one of the very best youngianum types, this one surely with some sempervirens in its genetic makeup.  Beautiful rounded, deeply veined evergreen leaves that take on various leaf colors throughout the year, build into a superb upright clump.  Epimedium x sasakii 'Melody' just behind it, another evergreen one.

23    E. x youngianum 'Grape Fizz' - a 2004 introduction by Darrell Probst, a terrific small plant with sprightly flowers that can appear all summer, taking on russet red leaf colors in fall.

24    E. fangii - not a particularly showy plant in flower, nor fall color, but an interesting species nonetheless, with stout, leathery, 3-part leaves.  Spreads by long rhizomes, so needs to be placed carefully. Possibly useful for hybridization for the plant habit, leaf disposition, and yellow flower color.

25    E. grandiflorum f. flavescens - No.2 - Darrell Probst numbers his various collections of forma flavescens, this one show some dessicated leaves on top from our summer drought, but was more tolerant of drought than most other flavescens forms.  Also unique in growth; very large, with bold textured leaves, yellow in autumn.

26    Epimedium hybrid seedling - 2 year, showing some interesting fall color and venation.

27    Epimedium hybrid seedling - 3 year, unflowered so far, keeping an eye on this one as it is among the most dwarf of my eppies so far, evergreen, with red leaves in spring, and deep bronze foliar color in autumn.

28    Epimedium hybrid seedling - 3 year, probably a seedling from youngianum 'Otome', with shiny veined leaves, great clumping habit, and attractive autumn color.

29    E. grandiflorum 'Bicolor Giant' - relatively new to my garden, has good red fall foliage.

30    E. pubescens "Shaanxi Forms" - introduced by Darrell Probst, a hardy selection of this slightly more tender species. Very low, wide clump of neat foliage, much smaller than E. stellulatum that can be seen just above.  perky white flowers above the foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 02, 2010, 05:24:04 AM
I was googling Epimedium wushanense 'Caramel' tonight, and came across a somewhat unsettling nursery-offering from Heronswood.  They are selling seedling-grown plants from E. wushanense 'Caramel', which will obviously be 100% hybrids and not the true Caramel; fair game I suppose, but the plant offering is listed simply as Epimedium [Caramel], an odd cryptic way to list the offering.  What does it mean?  To be sure, almost every customer who would purchase such an offering will label their plant Epimedium 'Caramel' or Epimedium Caramel, and it'll totally create confusion with the true E. wushanense 'Caramel'; they should know better than such a carelessly labeled offering... how disappointing.  If anyone currently grows the true 'Caramel', start calling it as such; E. wushanense 'Caramel' (true vegetatively propagated plant). Tsk tsk Heronswood.

Heronswood - Epimedium [Caramel]
http://www.heronswood.com/shop/03464
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 02, 2010, 06:46:12 PM
Hello Mark

An impressive gallery of Epimediums. I appreciate it.

Mmm, some unknown species to me, like E.youngianum "Otome" and "Grape Fizz", E.grandiflorum "Orion" and Bicolor Giant. The last one seems very particular te me.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on December 02, 2010, 07:51:39 PM
Hello Gerrit, good to have you posting.
 8)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 03, 2010, 04:21:39 AM
Hello Mark

An impressive gallery of Epimediums. I appreciate it.

Mmm, some unknown species to me, like E.youngianum "Otome" and "Grape Fizz", E.grandiflorum "Orion" and Bicolor Giant. The last one seems very particular te me.

Gerrit

Thanks Gerrit, always nice to meet another fellow Epimedium fan.  Please tell us more about your epimedium interest and how you grow them.  I find that there are many cultivars in the UK and EU that I can't find here, luckily there is hybridization going on in both the USA and in Europe, and I suspect in Japan too.

E. x youngianum 'Otome' is a cultivar bought and brought to the USA from Japan, and is without a doubt, one of the best epimediums.

'Grape Fizz' is an American 2004 introduction by Darrell Probst, a very good E. x youngianum to be sure.

'Orion' is a grandiflorum selection that most likely originates from Japan, and named by American nurseryman Dick Weaver of We-Du Nursery in the early 1990s.  It is one of several "giant red" types.

'Bicolor Giant' is another of the "giant red" grandiflorum types, I believe named by Darrell Probst, "acquired from Gotemba Nursery, Japan on 1997 as a pink grandiflorum".  My plant is still young, but the other "giant red", namely 'Red Queen', is indeed a monster Epimedium, for me growing more than a meter wide and 30" (75 cm) tall or taller.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 03, 2010, 07:45:27 AM
Hello Mark

An impressive gallery of Epimediums. I appreciate it.

Mmm, some unknown species to me, like E.youngianum "Otome" and "Grape Fizz", E.grandiflorum "Orion" and Bicolor Giant. The last one seems very particular te me.

Gerrit

Hi Gerrit,

welkom op het forum. Always nice to have someone more here who speaks Dutch. Are you an Eppie-addict too?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 03, 2010, 02:31:09 PM
Thank you Maggy, Mark and Wim for your kind words
Let me introduce myself. I am an epimedium eddict indeed. For three years I started a collection and now I grow 50 different species in my garden. The reason to fall in love with our genus, is the combination of tiny liitle flowers with her ever changing leafcolors. In the beginning it was difficult to obtain new species, especially in Holland. There is absolutely no interest here for E. As a member of the Dutch Rockgarden Society I sometimes try to speak about E, but I think, this is not done. The seedlists contains hardly any E. The same as our SRGC. The most of my plants come from Belgium, Wim, you are familiar with him, Koen van Poucke.
For a year I follow the E thread on this forum and learned a lot.... That I know nothing. The knowledge you have Mark, and a woodlandgarden there in Mass, beatifull. But also nice to read there are also fans in even Russia or in warmer places like Lyon, France.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 03, 2010, 03:27:30 PM
Gerrit, it seems surprising that there wouldn't be more interest in Epimedium in the Netherlands, maybe between yourself and your next door neighbor Wim in Belgium, you two can start a new trend :D  With 50 varieties, I'd say you are off to a good start!  It also sounds like you have them growing in the ground, rather than in pots, which I believe is the best way to enjoy them.  Show us some photos sometime, I'm always interested to see how gardeners incorporate epimediums into the garden and landscape.

I see from your signature information that your garden is below sea level.  I found the following link to be very interesting, about places in the world that are below Sea Level, I had no idea that the Dead Sea in Israel was the lowest elevation on earth at -423m.

Regarding your avatar, I take it as a compliment that you like Epimedium grandiflorum 'Dark Beauty', it is a stunning variety. :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 03, 2010, 03:58:03 PM
Thank you Maggy, Mark and Wim for your kind words
Let me introduce myself. I am an epimedium eddict indeed. For three years I started a collection and now I grow 50 different species in my garden. The reason to fall in love with our genus, is the combination of tiny liitle flowers with her ever changing leafcolors. In the beginning it was difficult to obtain new species, especially in Holland. There is absolutely no interest here for E. As a member of the Dutch Rockgarden Society I sometimes try to speak about E, but I think, this is not done. The seedlists contains hardly any E. The same as our SRGC. The most of my plants come from Belgium, Wim, you are familiar with him, Koen van Poucke.
For a year I follow the E thread on this forum and learned a lot.... That I know nothing. The knowledge you have Mark, and a woodlandgarden there in Mass, beatifull. But also nice to read there are also fans in even Russia or in warmer places like Lyon, France.

Gerrit,

I know Koen of course, a very friendly and knowledgeable man with a nice nursery.
He's one of the two persons in Belgium I know of with a big Epi assortment in his nursery, he has about 100 Epimedium species and cultivars for sale and a lot of other very nice plants. And there are quite a few Epi-addicts in Belgium (not so in the Netherlands?)

I believe the nursery of Hans Kramer (De Hessenhof) in the Netherlands is extending their Epi collection. And "Het houten huis" (http://www.hethoutenhuis.eu/) has a nice collection too...but you probably visited them already?


Cheers

Wim
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 03, 2010, 06:23:07 PM
Ha ha Mark, next door neighbours. Between Wim and myself live approximately 5 million people.
I grow my epimediums in the ground. I have placed them on higher spots, on the top of peatwalls, and along a small brook. That was the first thing I was aware. To have a good view on the flowers, you should not go on your knees. Although we live in a flat country here, I made different altitudes in my garden. I think it makes a garden more interesting.
Wim, de Hessenhof is in my opinion the very best nursery in the Netherlands. Not for rock garden plants however. Hans Kramer, the owner is a very amiable man. The prices are low and it is always very crowdy there, so not all plants are available. The Houten House on the contrary I would not visit. I was there in May, and in the epimediumcorner it was a mass. They aim to have a huge collection, but they refused to show me.
Mark, I stole the picture of E.Dark Beauty from you indeed. For me the most wanted. As far as I know, not available in the low countries. Wim, do you have her?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 03, 2010, 06:52:43 PM
Ha ha Mark, next door neighbours. Between Wim and myself live approximately 5 million people.
I grow my epimediums in the ground. I have placed them on higher spots, on the top of peatwalls, and along a small brook. That was the first thing I was aware. To have a good view on the flowers, you should not go on your knees. Although we live in a flat country here, I made different altitudes in my garden. I think it makes a garden more interesting.

Gerrit, you have a LOT of neighbors! ;D  Your positioning of epimedium plants up onto elevated positions makes sense, and as you say, better to see the flowers.  Although one of my hybridization goals is create hybrids that present their flowers well above the foliage; those cultivars like 'Kaguyahime' and 'Enchantress' that partially hide their flowers among the leaves are not so showy because of their shy flowers.  How do the evergreen species do for you, does the foliage truly remain evergreen?  I am rather amazed that here in New England (Northeastern USA) where so few plants with evergreen leaves do that well in winter, that some of the epimediums have winter foliage that comes through just fine.

Mark, I stole the picture of E.Dark Beauty from you indeed. For me the most wanted. As far as I know, not available in the low countries. Wim, do you have her?

No problem, I thought it looked familiar, as I said, I'll take it as a compliment, a photo good enough for an avatar image :D I think there might be a young Belgian fellow that has the dark beauty ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 03, 2010, 07:40:37 PM
Ha ha Mark, next door neighbours. Between Wim and myself live approximately 5 million people.

Wim, de Hessenhof is in my opinion the very best nursery in the Netherlands. Not for rock garden plants however. Hans Kramer, the owner is a very amiable man. The prices are low and it is always very crowdy there, so not all plants are available. The Houten House on the contrary I would not visit. I was there in May, and in the epimediumcorner it was a mass. They aim to have a huge collection, but they refused to show me.

Mark, I stole the picture of E.Dark Beauty from you indeed. For me the most wanted. As far as I know, not available in the low countries. Wim, do you have her?

We have a lot of neighbours, indeed...The low countries are very densely populated. There's about 300 km between us...

Never been to the Hessenhof but I might be going next year. I mailed with the owner of the houten house and she seemed very friendly but people can be very different in real live.

Like Mark said  ;) I bought your most wanted (AKA E. grfl 'Dark Beauty') this year and for the moment she's growing in the greenhouse of a friend/nursery-woman...she will be planted out in my garden next year...in a few years (if you can wait that long  ;D) I might be able to give you a piece.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 04, 2010, 03:33:19 AM
Colder temperatures have arrived, yet still no snow, with garden interest provided by evergreen Epimediums and a few late-deciduous types.

1   E. pubigerum Cc950215 - In my opinion, one of the very best all-around clumping species, although a largely overlooked one.  The neat crimped foliage looks great year round, is the most reliable evergreen of all species, and drought-resistant too. The small flowers are produced in open sprays on tallish stems that clear the foliage, not bowl-me-over beautiful but refined and attractive.  Flowers are basically white, but depending on the form grown, can be flushed with pink or red. The number indicates a Darrell Probst collection number; with four forms offered in the past, I have three of them.  From Turkey, in areas near the Black Sea.

2   E. x sasakii - another evergreen "species", a name used by Japanese botanists to describe natural hybrids between E. sempervirens and E. x setosum, but the name not generally recognized.  Since E. x setosum is itself a natural hybrid between E. diphyllum and E. sempervirens, E. x sasakii can be thought of as:
E. sempervirens x (diphyllum x sempervirens).  The sempervirens genes certainly show through, with small rounded evergreen leaves, but with an upright habit more like diphyllum.  Very slow growing clumper.  I grow a couple forms.

3   E. x sasaki 'Melody' - introduced by Darrell Probst in 2001, this is a hybrid that occurred in Harold Epstein's garden, between E. sempervirens (violet form) and E. x setosum.  It is a very good plant, slowly building into a mound of shiny semi-evergreen leaves, taking on dark leather red colors in fall. The spring foliage is flecked with red, and the violet flowers are a bit larger and more showy than other x sasakii types.

4   E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' - a fantastic plant, the spring foliage is unbelievable, looking like shiny plastic with bold red edges.  New leaves after flowering also show bold coloration.  Large, heavy foliage tends to flatten out in summer making beautiful low mounds, worth growing for the foliage alone. Absolutely winter evergreen and drought resistant. Palest lavender flowers are okay but not very exciting.  Excellent plant for hybridization efforts.

5   E. pinnatum ssp. colchicum - this evergreen species hardly needs any introduction, a familiar garden plant that slowly spreads into a dense wide mat. Reliably evergreen here, and drought resistant.  The yellow verbascum-like flowers are best appreciated however if the foliage is cut off in spring.  Late autumn and winter foliage takes on dark charcoal shades.

6   E. x youngianum 'Otome' - I keep showing this Japanese variety, but it is so fantastic, useful too for hybridization, and colorful so late into the season, that it's hard not to be fixated on it.  Semi-evergreen, and drought-resistant.

7   Not all grandiflorums are created equal, even with flowers of the same color scheme.  The small plant on the left, showing some red fall color, is E. grandiflorum 'Silver Queen'. The much larger E. grandiflorum 'White Queen' is on the right, taking on some dull brownish-red fall color.

8   E. x youngianum 'Royal Flush'- fantastic copper-red spring foliage, some good foliar color in late spring and summer too, and subtle burnished copper tones in autumn; semi-evergreen.  Attractive lavender flowers. Somewhat similar to the next one, #9.

9   E. grandiflorum var. violaceum 'Bronze Maiden' - in spring this goes through an incredible metamorphosis of leaf color, from chocolate to carneous red and flesh tones.  This plant had a rough time with our summer drought, so it looks a bit tatty, but still showing some burnished leaf color.

10  Two E. x versicolor selections (garden bred E. grandiflorum x pinnatum ssp. colchicum), the cultivar 'Versicolor' in the lower right with deep leather-red foliage, and Darrell Probst's 2004 'Cherry Tart' above it with leather-brown leaves.  Foliage is semi-evergreen, these being a couple of the very best eppies ever.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 04, 2010, 04:28:59 PM
Hallo Mark,
This is a part from my garden with a peatwall. With E.gr."Yellow Queen", Corydalis kashmiriana and candelabra primulas.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 04, 2010, 04:32:24 PM
Try again ,hopely with picture
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 04, 2010, 05:27:46 PM
Hallo Mark,
This is a part from my garden with a peatwall. With E.gr."Yellow Queen", Corydalis kashmiriana and candelabra primulas.

Hi Gerrit, well that's a lovely spring scene with some choice plants!  I have E. grandiflorum 'Yellow Princess' but don't know of a 'Yellow Queen', did you mean 'Yellow Princess', or is there a 'Yellow Queen' variety available over there? 

In your plant, the flowers look rich bright yellow, in 'Yellow Princess' they are a very pale yellow, somewhat like forms of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens.  My 'Yellow Princess' was in a spot that becomes very dry from the roots of nearby Arborvitae (Thuya), so I finally moved it to a new location this fall.  E. gr. 'Yellow Princess' is a selection from high mountain areas in Japan, thus one of the very last Epimediums to leaf out and flower in spring, along the same lines as E. grandiflorum 'Cranberry Sparkle', another recent (2002) introduction of a high elevation selection with red flowers, also rather late to emerge in spring. 

I also know of the popular 'Amber Queen' that is orangish-yellow, but that is not a grandiflorum.

I envy your being able to grow Corydalis cashmeriana, I've never been able to grow it, but can grow some of the other Chinese blue ones.  They mix nicely with Epimedium, don't they?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 04, 2010, 07:53:45 PM
Yes Mark.

You are defenitely right, I made a mistake, I was so busy to post a photo, that I forgot to think.
This is E.grandiflorum " Yellow Princess". The warm yellow color is somewhat paler in reality indeed.

This Corydalis should be difficult, but it grows for several years on that spot in an mixture of clay, peat and compost. Morningsun.
A nice second bloom in summer. A good spreader as well.
Good to hear she is from a high moutain area. I understand her late flowering now.

I know you do not grow only E. in your garden. You must have a great allium-collection and now you tell me about corydalis.But it must be fantastic to have in you woodlandgarden arisaema, trillium, sanguinaria, anemone, pulmonaria, bulbs,etc. On your pictures I see mostly only E.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 12:41:21 AM
Well, i'm very impressed by this thread, specifically, as Gerrit, for your photos and your knowledge Mark. That's very usefull for me.

It's not so easy, here, in France, to find many cultivars of Epimedium grandiflorum. It seems that Darrell Probst sells and hybridizes much of them.

Since few years, the genus of Epimedium is one of my favorite with the Podophyllum, Trillium, Paris & Co and i can't help but collect them.
I'm assisted in this effort by my friend, the french plant breeder, Thierry Delabroye, and others plantsmen such as, as mentioned by Wim and Gerrit, Koen Van Poucke, Daniele Monbaliu from the nursery Epimedium, Marion Basset (who imports some japanese's selections of Epimedium grandiflorum like 'Fukujuji', 'Benikujaku', 'Tokiwa Gozen' etc.)

So I'm really pleased to discover yours, particularly those with outstanding foliage.

Here, I grow about a fifty species and cultivars, most Chinese and some Japanese (and I would like to try them seriously), and many hybrids of mine (wich have been naturally hybridized, I simply harvested the seeds), Thierry Delabroye and Daniele Monbaliu.

I live near Thierry's nursery and I go there regularly in spring. He is particularly interested in foliage, form, color and of course the flowers and got really interesting results, some of its hybrids will be available soon and I’d be happy to present them to you next year if you wish.

And for your viewing pleasure, here's a Japanese blog with some interesting photos of epimediums : http://iroha.s7.xrea.com/ep/

Meanwhile, I put some pictures of epimediums of the garden, and some Thierry's hybrids.

(Sorry for my English, I'm not good at languages! And also sorry for the pictures, some are really bad)

1 - Epimedium acuminatum L575

2 - Epimedium acuminatum yellow form (not sure...)

3 - Epimedium grandiflorum 'Akebono'

4,5,6 - Epimedium 'Amber Queen', from Robin White, hybrid between E.wushanense and E.wushanense 'Caramel'.

7 - Epimedium 'Artic Wings', an hybrid of E.latisepalum

8 - Epimedium grandiflorum 'Benishidori'

9,10,11 - Epimedium 'Buckland Spider', hybrid between E.grandiflorum and E.koreanum, slow but very vigourous.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 12:50:41 AM
12,13,14,15 - Epimedium 'Domino', one my favourites

16,17 - Epimedium grandiflorum 'Red Beauty'

18 - Epimedium grandiflorum v.violaceum

19 - Epimedium latisepalum (flowers), floriferous, vigourous, one of my favourites.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 12:54:41 AM
20,21,22 - Epimedium lishichenii (flowers)

23 - Epimedium 'Pink Champagne'

24 - Epimedium stellulatum 'Wuddang Star'

25,26 - Epimedium 'Tojen', a japanese hybrid, very small but big flowers.

27 - Epimedium wushanense sp. nova

29 - Epimedium x omeiense 'Stormcloud', very bad pictures, he's so beautiful and very floriferous
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 12:58:04 AM
30,31,32 - An hybrid of Epimedium davidii I guess

33,34,35,36,37,38 - Seedling, I guess it's an hybrid of Epimedium acuminatum and dolichostemon, any idea?

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 01:01:34 AM
39,40,41 - Hybrid of davidii? The flowers are bigger, I don't know...

42 - Hybrid

43 - Hybrid of davidii?

44,45,46,47 - Hybrids
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 01:04:13 AM
48,49,50,51 - A very beautiful hybrid unnamed.

52,53,54,55 - Hybrids

56 - Hybrid, fargesi x acuminatum ?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 01:06:35 AM
57 up to 66 - Hybrids
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 01:08:46 AM
67 up to 72 - Hybrids

73,74 - Hybrid with pale flowers and anormal foliage
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 01:10:12 AM
75 - Hybrid

76 - Hybrid, I call it 'Bonbon rose' or 'Pink Candy'

77,78,79 - Hybrids


I hope that's not too much photos in one time... :-\

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 06, 2010, 04:09:45 AM
Hello Geoffrey, welcome to the SRGC Forum, and thank you for selecting the Epimedium 2010 topic to start with and deliver such a feast for our eyes with photos of so many gorgeous epimediums.  I am highly impressed with your hybrids and your extensive post.  And don't worry about your English, it is fine.

There is much to respond to, please forgive me if I miss something that is important to you that you'd like to see a response to, but with 79 photos, there is a lot that I'd like to say.

Photos 33-38, of likely E. acuminatum x dolichostemon, I would agree with that suggestion. Very nice.

Some of your hybrids have flared outer sepals, like the upper bracts on a pineapple, most distinctive.  In particular, I see these erect or flared outer sepals on #41 (davidii hybrid), #48-51 (beautiful yellow and pink hybrid), #55 (one that looks like 'Amber Queen' with orange-yellow sepals/spurs and erect pinkish white outer sepals), and #58 (similar but slightly darker than #55).  Do you know what parent is responsible for the erect white-pinkish outer sepals?  E. dolichostemon most likely, or even fargesii?

Stunning hybrids - many that you show are quite attractive, the pink and yellow #48-51, #64-65 with beautiful slender red and yellow "spiders", #69-72 - perhaps my favorite in salmon orange (outstanding!), #76 - your "Bonbon" or "Pink Candy" with chunky cups of orange-red, such a bright and distinctive flower shape.

The one that gets most of my attention, is #73-74, with the unusual 3-lobed foliage on some leaves.  How many leaves on the plant make that shape, it seems like some leaves are normal.  I have seen seedlings of E. sempervirens make funny lobed leaves, and there is one form of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens that Darrell Probst offers that has three-lobed tips to the leaves... not on all leaves, but the largest most mature leaves show that characteristic. I have also noticed in E. franchetii 'Brimstone Butterfly' that the ends of some leaves show enlarged dentations that could almost be called "lobes". I'm interested in selecting Epimedium hybrids, not only for flowers, but for their foliage characteristics, after all, we see them in the garden for most of the year in leaves only.

==============

#2 - E. acuminatum yellow - not sure what to think; I have seen photos of a few so-called yellow forms and they are cream or very pale yellow, and many labeled as this have been misnomers.

#3 - 'Akebono' is listed by Darrell Probst as a youngianum, although I have seen it listed elsewhere as a grandiflorum.  To me, it seems more like a youngianum cultivar.

#7 - 'Arctic Wings' - very pretty, I like the clean white flowers and new red foliage.

#9-11 - Epimedium 'Buckland Spider', hybrid between E.grandiflorum and E. koreanum. Looks floriferous.  I have many hybrid seedlings that look similar, crosses between E. grandiflorum 'Larchmont' and E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'La Rocaille'.

#25-26 - E. 'Tojen', I could not find anything on that name, but possibly it is actually the same as E. leptorrhizum 'Togen', listed simply as E. 'Togen' on the Koen Van Poucke web site.

Thanks again for posting so many wonderful Epimedium photos, your examples of Epimedium hybrids are inspirational and fire the imagination.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 06, 2010, 07:52:22 AM
Hi Geoffrey,

a warm welcome to this forum from me too.
You know Daniëlle Monbaliu? She's a good friend of mine, actually for the moment she's taking care of some Epimediums (amongst which E. grfl 'Dark Beauty') for me, which I ordered from D. Probst this year.

Like Mark said, there's so much to respond to...it's overwhelming...you have some stunning hybrids there....I'll have a closer look later...to be continued  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Regelian on December 06, 2010, 08:23:00 AM
Wow, Geoffrey,  wonderful fotos!  Thanks for sharing these.  I'll wait for Mark and Wim to pick your brain, as they really have some great collections going.  I've just started collecting Epimedium and seeing all your hybrids has set my heart beating quite a bit faster.

Ciao für now,

Jamie
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 06, 2010, 01:51:03 PM
Bonjour Geoffrey,
Also wellcome to this forum. I am happy, you shared you pictures with us. It is an overwhelming quantity. I simply choose some which like the most beautiful to me. E. "Pink Champage" for instance. Or those fine 2 colors in pink and yellow flowers. #47-50. Do I see parents of E.amber queen? (Mark?)
I want them all!!

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 06, 2010, 04:11:32 PM
Geoffrey,

I've looked at your pictures again and there are some really stunning hybrids there.
If you ever find the time to post some pictures of T. Delabroye's hybrids that would be wonderful. I've only visited his nursery once to buy some of his beautiful Helleborus hybrids but I've never went to see his collection of Epi's. Maybe this year.

Do you have a picture of the leaves of your yellow acuminatum? Like Mark, I've never seen a true yellow acuminatum...but they should exist.

Is your 'Red Beauty' a grandiflorum? I have it here as being a synonym to E. grfl 'Rose Queen' and E. grfl 'Crimson Queen'. What do you think?

Do you have an idea what the parents are of E. 'Pink Champagne'? I know it's a 2007 Probst introduction but that's it.

I've never seen your 'Tojen'/'Togen' (both names can be correct, it depends on the translation into Romanji...it means 'Heavenly place' by the way). The E. 'Togen' which Koen sells has darker flowers, I think. I don't grow this one so I'm not sure.

Like Mark, I would  agree that the Epi in photos 33-38 is a cross between E. acuminatum x dolichostemon. If you look at E. 'Amanagowa' or E. 'Kaguya Hime' which have the same parentage...you can see the resemblance although for me the flowers of your hybrid have a much nicer contrast.

The hybrids I like the most are:

# 46 (the vibrant red and yellow reminds me of a volcano) & # 52 (stunning contrast)
# 63 (a very nice dark/old purple ... like a red wine stain on a white tablecloth)
# 76 your bonbon rose which is wonderful...the name is chosen very aptly...it reminds me of "Turkish delight" (Loukoum in French)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 06, 2010, 04:20:16 PM
Do I see parents of E.amber queen?

Gerrit

Gerrit,

I thought the parents of E. amber queen were E. flavum and E. wushanense but Geoffrey describes it as a cross between wushanense and wushanense 'Caramel'. So now I'm not so sure any more. Mark? Geoffrey?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 06, 2010, 04:46:15 PM
Do I see parents of E.amber queen?

Gerrit

Gerrit,

I thought the parents of E. amber queen were E. flavum and E. wushanense but Geoffrey describes it as a cross between wushanense and wushanense 'Caramel'. So now I'm not so sure any more. Mark? Geoffrey?

I believe 'Amber Queen' involves E. flavum and E. wushanense 'Caramel'. 
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Plants/Epimedium-Amber-Queen-PP-17197.html

Edrom just lists it as flavum x wushanense; either way, I certainly "see" flavum in that hybrid:
http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-Amber-Queen-20p8981.htm

The JohnJearrard site also lists it simply as flavum x wushanense:
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumamberqueen/epimediumamberqueen.html
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 06, 2010, 04:59:40 PM
Geoffrey,

Is your 'Red Beauty' a grandiflorum? I have it here as being a synonym to E. grfl 'Rose Queen' and E. grfl 'Crimson Queen'. What do you think?


Some confusion came from early days where people brought back named Japanese cultivars, with the cultivar name written in Japanese characters, so new names where invented in the USA, or in the UK, or both, for such plants. This is the case with the numerous synonyms - 'Rose Queen', 'Sunset', 'Crimson Beauty', and I suspect, 'Red Beauty', all of which are actually the original Japanese named E. grandiflorum 'Yubae'.

Edrom nursery makes it sound like 'Red Beauty' is yet another rename of 'Yubae':
http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-grandiflorum-Red-Beauty-20p8986.htm#details
"This name [Red Beauty] is still allowed although it appears to be a re-name of the japanese cultivar Yubae."
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 06, 2010, 05:09:53 PM
Geoffrey, I meant to mention two more items:

1.  I really like the hybrids that have a well defined yellow edge to the red cups, #47, and #62.  That coloring seems unique.

2.  I believe your #8 should be listed as E. grandiflorum 'Benichidori' or 'Beni Chidori' (versus "Benishidori"); when I was looking this up, couldn't find it at first, but found it under the different spelling :D
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori.html

============

And now for a parting shot of my frozen Epimediums (sunny today but temperature staying at 23 F (-5 C), a couple views of colorful fall foliage on remaining Epimediums (some I've already sheared off the foliage); many of these will be sheared back shortly unless we get snow.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 06, 2010, 05:22:58 PM
2.  I believe your #8 should be listed as E. grandiflorum 'Benichidori' or 'Beni Chidori' (versus "Benishidori"); when I was looking this up, couldn't find it at first, but found it under the different spelling :D
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori.html

Or here:

http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-grandiflorum-Benichidori-20p8793.htm#details

Beni Chidori (a thousand red birds)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 06, 2010, 09:21:28 PM
Well, thanks to all, Mark, Wim, Jamie and Gerrit.

Truely, I'm reading this thread since the beginning (and the bul log of Ian since few years now), I just react now because, with the cold ( -8° here two nights ago) and snow storms, I've a little more free time. I begin to be unhappy in winter and believe me if you want, but sometimes I dream of epimedium ...Plants need to rest too, I know, so I'll just have to grin and bear it, like everyone else...

The amount of photos I presented is overwhelming indeed, I apologize. But you're lucky, I've lost a big part of my photos by formatting my computer this autumn...^^

Mark and Wim, thanks to confirm for my seedling n°33-38. It's close to Epimedium 'Kaguyahime' indeed (I prefer 'Amanogawa' but unfortunately, it blooms early and the flowers are often destroyed by frost, what a pity!)

About Epimediums with flared outer sepals, I don't know well what parent is responsible. I guessed Epimedium dolichostemon to or maybe Epimedium acuminatum?
They're Thierry's hybrids so I'll ask Thierry very soon, and also for parents of 'Pink Champagne' because I don't know either. I'm not helpfull, sorry!.
For those who are interested, I harvest a large quantity of seeds and I have a couple of hundreds of seedlings in nurseries this year.

#69-72 are really amazing! Very very floriferous, very strong, fertile, and, the photo doesn't show it, but they have a beautifull foliage. One of the parent is Epimedium wushanense, the other one, I don't know.
Thierry remains a mystery with its new hybrids that are still under examination in the nursery and not marketable. He works hard and I know that he promises a few surprises for the future. So, when I visit her private greenhouse, I just admire, take pictures, I rarely questioned him about the parentage of his hybrids, sometimes he tells me without being asked, sometimes not, I like that. And I guess myself (??).

About Epimedium #73-74, yes, many leaves are normal, most of them. I think it's a very interessant characteristic and I've never seen this before ( never seen this phenomenon on my 'Brimstone Butterfly'). And I also like the pale and red marginatum foliage, that's interessant. Unfortunately, flowers are really pale and are quite inconspicuous. Again, I don't know the parentage.

About my yellow acuminatum, I have here a creamy form of it (http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/epimedium-acuminatum-cream-form-,179,theme==0,page==2?noclear). The foliage is nearly similar but the flowers are a little different in the form.
Wim, as I said above, I've lost a big part of my photos, but I can take a picture of the foliage at this time. I recently discovered that a baby Beesia calthifolia had pushed just below and I have to move it

'Buckland Spider' is really a good epimedium, I'm delighted and I'm curious to see this cross with 'La Rocaille'. Strangely, I still don't cultivate it, it's on my wishlist for 2011, Mark your photos convinced me.

And of course, my 'Tojen' is 'Togen'. it has just from Thierry Delabroye so, Wim, I've never seen the Koen's one. I planted it in a sunny bed so maybe there is an impact on flowers's color, I do not know.
And my 'Benishidori' is 'Beni-Chidori', I made a mistake.

The #62 is a young plant, but, besides flowers, I also like its foliage which is similar to Epimedium sp. nova 'Spine Tingler', almost thorny and wavy. But it's higher.

Wim, yes, I know Daniele Monbaliu and I love this woman. She's really nice and friendly, so talented, unfortunately, I can't go to her nursery, which is very simple and welcoming, as often as I would like. Some of my hybrids have just from her, as 'Bieke' (the name of her daughter I think) or 'André Charlier'.
By cons I didn't know she had Epimedium coming from Darrell Probst or then did she just went to visit him recently?
I intend to redo my stock photos at Thierry's nursery this spring so yes, I'll post them here. For now, I have none. Damned computer!
My 'Red Beauty' is a grandiflorum and, I've never seen 'Crimson Queen' or 'Rose Queen' in real but they're really close indeed. I don't see any difference, maybe mine is a little redder...But afterall, Mark is probably right, there may be Yubae. There is so many confusion with hybrids, it's really annoyed.
The #63 is even darker than in the picture, it's very gorgeous!
I have many seedlings of #73, we'll see next year ...

Gerrit, 'Caramel', maybe a parent of 'Amber Queen' (but afterall, Robin White, does he know the parents? I understood it was an accident), is amazing for me, I don't know if you possess it but it's an excellent Epimedium, I prefer it to 'Amber Queen'.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on December 06, 2010, 10:29:02 PM
Hello Geoffrey, nice to meet an other Epimedium lover here ! This post becomes more and more interesting  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 07, 2010, 12:08:09 AM
Geoffrey, too bad about your computer hard drive failure, it sends chills at the mere thought of losing so much valuable data and photos.  I recommend buying a small external drive, bought mine for $100 several years ago (probably cheaper now), it is 150 Gigabytes, plugs in using a USB cable, couldn't be simpler.  I replicate my 10 years worth of digital photos to a second drive as a backup.

Regarding your unusual leaf Epimedium #73-74, I have not seen one quite as lobed as that, but have seen some Epimediums with enlarged teeth on ends of the leaves, I include two photos on E. grandiflorum f. flavescens #3 from Darrell Probst, which has "trident-tipped" leaves on some of the terminal leaflets.  On E. sempervirens, I often see odd leaf shapes, a couple seedlings of E. sempervirens 'Aurora' show such anomalies, but none quite as well defined as yours.

I may not have been clear about what I trying to say about 'Red Queen' and synonyms. It is probably best to quote from the Garden Vision Epimedium catalog:

E. grandiflorum 'Yubae' (synonyms: 'Crimson', 'Crimson Beauty', 'Rose Queen')
"Often mislabeled as 'Rose Queen', this plant arrived in the west many decades ago, already given the name 'Yubae' in Japan, but with only Japanese characters to go by and no translation it was probably soon given an English cultivar name.  Incidentally, this same plant suffered a third renaming in the U.K. when another plant, 'Tama No Genpei', was going around as 'Rose Queen', so it was re-named 'Crimson Beauty'."
Factoring in what Edrom Nursery says about 'Crimson Beauty', that it is probably 'Yubae', continues the confusion.

E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen', not to be confused with the name 'Red Beauty', is a GIANT plant as far as grandiflorums go, growing 4' across x 30-32" tall (1.3 m x 75-80 cm tall), whereas 'Yubae' & 'Tama No Gempei' are smaller normal sized plants.

Really must get 'Caramel' some time, it's such a beauty.  You mention Darrell's Epimedium sp. nova 'Spine Tingler', another that I must get.  He has rows of hybrids made with this one, the sawtooth narrow shiny leaves are really something!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 07, 2010, 12:37:59 PM
Bonjour Geoffrey,
Also wellcome to this forum. I am happy, you shared you pictures with us. It is an overwhelming quantity. I simply choose some which like the most beautiful to me. E. "Pink Champage" for instance. Or those fine 2 colors in pink and yellow flowers. #47-50. Do I see parents of E.amber queen? (Mark?)
I want them all!!

Gerrit



Hello Mark, Wim and Geoffrey

I am misunderstood. I meant to suggest: Parent of this hybrid (47-50) could be, may be E.amber queen. Perhaps a cross with E. "davidii"

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 07, 2010, 02:37:20 PM
Mark,

You sent us many lovely photos with automn foliage.
You asked for pictures with winterfoliage.
here I post some. As you see, the hard, leather, sawtooth-leaves
survive better in the cold. We had a week with temps far below zero
during the night and -2C at daytime.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 08, 2010, 12:11:22 AM
Mark,

You sent us many lovely photos with automn foliage.
You asked for pictures with winterfoliage.
here I post some. As you see, the hard, leather, sawtooth-leaves
survive better in the cold. We had a week with temps far below zero
during the night and -2C at daytime.

Gerrit

Gerrit, thanks for posting these foliage views, so often photos of epimedium concentrate on the flowers only, so it's good to see what these evergreen species look like in foliage.  You have a number of species that I don't have.  Each year I would place an order of about $400 US dollars at Garden Vision Nursery, and while that sounds a lot, when some rare species or newer cultivars cost $30-$40, or more per plant, it adds up so quickly. 

I like the nice drooping or cascading foliage on E. omiense 'Stormcloud' and rounded foliage on 'Akane', two others that I have not yet purchased.  I also like the rounded and "crimped" foliage on 'Amber Queen'.

I had wanted E. acuminatum 'Night Mistress', but the one year it was offered at Garden Vision Nurseries, it could only be purchased through Darrell's "Expedition Fund"; buy a new or rare epimedium for $75, which helps Darrell subsidize his many expeditions to China.  The 2005 Garden Vision catalog (the nursery name at that time) mentions that Darrell has organized and completed 29 expeditions to 15 provinces in China, these expeditions mostly funded by himself. About E. acuminatum 'Night Mistress', Darrell reports he "collected the original plant in November 2000, from a high elevation locale near Nanchuan in Chongqing Municipality after nearly a day's drive along a winding road that led to this site".  Well. we're all glad he went to that extraordinary trouble to find this special variety.

I wish I had bought it then; I have bought a couple items on his "Expedition Fund" in the past, obviously well worth it considering the amount of effort to go find these treasures and bring them back for everyone to enjoy growing.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 08, 2010, 10:53:36 PM

About Epimediums with flared outer sepals, I don't know well what parent is responsible. I guessed Epimedium dolichostemon to or maybe Epimedium acuminatum? They're Thierry's hybrids so I'll ask Thierry very soon.

Geoffrey, I was looking at the Epimedium pages at the JohnJearrard web site, and spotted the ascending-outer-sepals characteristic is very strong on E. chlorandrum, it is a lovely species, yet another one I do not grow, see:
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumchlorandrum/epimediumchlorandrum.html
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 09, 2010, 11:02:48 AM
I'll post here some photo's of E."davidii" dwarf form. A natural hybrid from the form. It's my favorite, because of it's dark green foliage and the spectaculair big bright yellow flowers. (big...for an epimedium) She is a slow growing plant. Mine grows for 2 years in a trough as you can see. She is also vulnerable. A tiny stem rises from her soil and carries the hole plant. One slug or a bird and it's the end.

Because I am also growing alpine and rockplants, I'm looking for E dwarf forms. I posses now: E.gr."Nanum" and E.gr."Freya" (syn."Violet Nanum"). Can anybody suggest other E. dwarf forms,up to 20cm high?

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 09, 2010, 01:32:54 PM
Gerrit, nice davidii hybrid, this species has lots of potential for hybridizing. I like that your plant has large flowers.  I grow 3 or 4 forms of E. davidii, one of the best for size and shape of flowers, and continual flowers, is one called E. davidii "Wolong Selections", a selection found and introduced by Darrell Probst, notable for it's small plant size but good-sized bright yellow flowers.

One of my breeding goals, is to produce dwarf compact plants, so your post strikes a nerve with me.  I like the 'Violet Nanum' or 'Freya' cultivar of E. grandiflorum, one I have not heard of before, but find it listed in the following two links:

E. grandiflorum 'Violet Nanum'
Koen Van Poucke's site: http://www.koenvanpoucke.be/english/epimedium_fotos.asp
...and under the name E. grandiflorum "Nanum Freya"
http://forum.tuinadvies.be/forum_topic.php?hid=6&sid=7&page=41&tid=24347

For small size, I am working with E. x youngianum 'Liliputian'.  I have already shown some of my variable seedlings from this, almost all of which are also *evergreen* as they have crossed with one of several potential evergreen species such as E. pubigerum, E. x sasakii, and E. sempervirens.  One seedling in particular has tiny concise evergreen growth, it is perhaps the smallest Epimedium I've seen, but it remains to be seen whether it'll get bigger.  Here's a link to some summer photos of several 'Liliputian' evergreen hybrids, and I have uploaded a photo of it taken yesterday on a day when it was sunny but -5C.  Also uploaded is a photo of another evergreen 'Liliputian' hybrid that is about twice as big (but still a small plant), with the divergent and fall-winter downturned leaf petioles which are characteristic of E. sempervirens.
Tiny E. x youngianum 'Liliputian' hybrids
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg170304#msg170304

And here's a small E. davidii hybrid, with tiny yellow flowers, which I shared on SRGC earlier this year. And I uploaded a photo showing what it looks like yesterday on a frozen sunny day.  It's not particularly great, the flowers too small, but I'll use it for further hybridization.  This seedling came from the E. davidii EMR form.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg151111#msg151111

Other small ones to consider:  E. grandiflorum var. higoense, and in particular cultivars 'Confetti' and 'Saturn' (Saturn is one of the tiniest of all eppies), E. rhizomatosum (needs to be "tamed" by crossing with a clumping non-spreading epimedium, E. rhizomatosum grows only a few centimeters tall but spreads too aggressively; I have uploaded a photo showing a hybrid seedling in it's 3rd year this summer, still not flowered yet, and staying very small and not running), and E. ilicifolium makes a tight, dwarf mound with flowers produced on horizontal stems, so I plan on using it in my hybridization program too (the link above also shows E. ilicifolium).
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 09, 2010, 03:52:16 PM
Mark and Gerrit,

I like the dwarfer plants too.

Like Gerrit, I grow E. grfl. 'Nanum' and E. grfl 'Freya' (Syn.: 'Violet Nanum' and 'Nanum Freya'). This last one was an introduction from Elizabeth Strangman in 1959.
I also grow E. grfl. var. higoense 'Saturn' and I bought E. youngianum 'Liliputian' this year.
For me, most grandiflorums and youngianums are okay as rock garden plants but the ones you both mentioned are of course the champions of dwarfness...until Mark starts selling his dwarf hybrids of course  ;) ;D I love your Lilliputian hybrids by the way...
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 09, 2010, 04:40:11 PM
Mark and Gerrit,

I like the dwarfer plants too.

Like Gerrit, I grow E. grfl. 'Nanum' and E. grfl 'Freya' (Syn.: 'Violet Nanum' and 'Nanum Freya'). This last one was an introduction from Elizabeth Strangman in 1959.
I also grow E. grfl. var. higoense 'Saturn' and I bought E. youngianum 'Liliputian' this year.
For me, most grandiflorums and youngianums are okay as rock garden plants but the ones you both mentioned are of course the champions of dwarfness...until Mark starts selling his dwarf hybrids of course  ;) ;D I love your Lilliputian hybrids by the way...

Thanks Wim, I have to keep "the vision" ;D.  The intriguing aspect of the Liliputian OP crosses so far, is that most are evergreen and look like tiny sempervirens or pubigerum plants. 

Maybe E. grfl 'Freyna' never crossed the pond so to speak, surprised to learn it is such an old cultivar!  Seems like a good one to consider, for the dark flowers (most other dwarf grandiflorums are pale).

Regarding E. grandiflorum 'Nanum', curious thing about this selection, it slowly but surely gets bigger and bigger over the years.  In the first couple years we can admire the very small proportions and tiny droplet leaves, but my oldest plant which is planted in rich woodland soil, eventually got larger, it reached 24" across x 12" tall (60 cm x 30 cm) this year, whereas a younger 3 year plant of the same cultivar (see 2 photos) is 12" across x 5-6" tall (30 cm x 10-15 cm) so far, planted 3 years ago.  Even in the larger size, it is still smaller than most grandiflorums.

E. grfl. var. higoense 'Saturn' has been in my garden 6 years, and it stays tiny.  Two photos uploaded, one showing a general view to see the much larger size of other grandiflorum and epi species around the tiny 'Saturn' in the center, then a closeup of 'Saturn'.  Never got a good shot of it in bloom this year, it flowers later than many other grandiflorums.

Ran outside to take a couple more pics, sunny but -10 C, showing the dwarf E. rhizomatosum non-spreading 3yr hybrid in winter black color (and slightly frosted), a dwarf sempervirens 3yr hybrid seedling, and E. ilicifolium, a really compact plant that could be used to introduce really interesting foliage to dwarf evergreen hybrids.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 09, 2010, 06:55:58 PM
Mark, Wim
Well, much to think about, again,it hurts my brains. You guys have so much more experience with the genus.
1.The best thing for the rock garden seems to me E.x youngianum " Lilliputian". That picture, Mark with 5 seedlings. I agree with Wim, you should raise the best (left under) and sell it for many $ to us. I googled for availebility, but couldn't find in Europe one to sell.
2.Violet Nanum: She was difficult to me. I grew her in a trough, wouldn't grow and flower, like many E., I found out. (as well as in pots)
   She was also suffering from heat and sun, even during a small time. (We had this summer some days in July with real bad weather. 35C)
3.The same happened to Saturn and Bandit: burned. Round shaped light green foliage, can not be exposed to the sun. To bad, because I just saw the beauty on the photo.
5. Gr.Nanum: What a beauty's. Oke, large but nevertheless dwarfs.
6.Ilicifolium. Mine is still a small plant, but with high potential I guess. Those leaves are wunderful. A compact plant for the rock gartden.
7.Your seedlings,Mark. Seedlings from EMR. Mine is called CPC. What I saw on your picture is not the same plant as mine. Excuse me, but I don't like yours at all, when I compare it. The plant is not compact enough and the stems rise high, the flowers are scattered. Before you told me, I had the same idea, to use my plant for hybridization. Imagine, from every wellknown E a dwarf form.
8.Sutchuenense, perhaps another small plant.
9.Rhizomatosum and Sempervirens: cultivars I don't know. Seem small enough on the pictures.
So all together we have   enough  species to fill a small rock garden.
Gerrit


Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 09, 2010, 06:59:56 PM
Yes Mark, that's a possibility, but I don't remember seeing any E.chlorandrum at Thierry's nursery...
Besides, I think it's a very attractive species, I like the pale yellow color of the flowers, much more than the yellow of E.rhizomatosum for example, a little more aggressive. I love soft yellow, it's a vernal color. And its foliage isn't too bad either.
I don't grow it yet and I'm a little suspicious because I've seen E.chlorandrum (or sold as such) with yellow flowers and not pale yellow, less attractive (very subjective), I'll try it next year, a Koen's one.

I love your 'lilliputian', it's really funny! But a little inconspicuous
Where did you get your 'Lilliputian' Wim?
And I like a lot your davidii EMR seedling, I'm never disappointed with davidii's hybrids, it's a very good species, easily hybridizable and well fertile.

Is someone had a several years experience with Epimedium myrianthum?
And with Epimedium baieali-guizhouense? I planted it in may, last year, it has not flowered for now.

I'm a little disappointed with Epimedium acuminatum 'Night Mistress'.
Here, planted since two years, it's not really floriferous and the flowers are somewhat hidden by foliage, but maybe it doesn't like the place where I planted it, or so, it takes a little longer to settle here properly, two years, it's just to get an opinion. Idem for E.sutchuenense.

The only "dwarf" cultivars that I grow are of Japanese origin, however, some reaching 30cm, planted since this year, I step back on them.

'Hagaromo', small : http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/epimedium-hagoromo-,268,theme==0,page==1?noclear

'Koki', not floriferous this year and the flowers are too big : http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/epimedium-koki-,4,theme==0,page==1?noclear

'Tanima No Yuki', a youngianum I think, very small : http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/epimedium-tanima-no-yuki-,6,theme==0,page==2?noclear

and my favourite, 'Suzuka', evergreen for now and with beautifull colored foliage in spring : http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/epimedium-suzuka-,197,theme==0,page==2?noclear

'Fukujuji' is a beautifull cultivar with wavy petals, but higher than 30cm here : http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/epimedium-fukujuji-,211,theme==0,page==1?noclear
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 09, 2010, 08:05:47 PM
Mark, Wim

1.The best thing for the rock garden seems to me E.x youngianum " Lilliputian". That picture, Mark with 5 seedlings. I agree with Wim, you should raise the best (left under) and sell it for many $ to us. I googled for availebility, but couldn't find in Europe one to sell.
2.Violet Nanum: She was difficult to me. I grew her in a trough, wouldn't grow and flower, like many E., I found out. (as well as in pots)
   She was also suffering from heat and sun, even during a small time. (We had this summer some days in July with real bad weather. 35C)
3.The same happened to Saturn and Bandit: burned. Round shaped light green foliage, can not be exposed to the sun. To bad, because I just saw the beauty on the photo.
9.Rhizomatosum and Sempervirens: cultivars I don't know. Seem small enough on the pictures.
Gerrit


I don't think 'Lilliputian' is available for sale anywhere in Europe. I bought it directly from Probst who introduced it.
'Freya' or 'Violet Nanum' is not the easiest, she despises direct sunlight and seems very susceptible to vine weevil.
I grow 'Saturn' in full shade too, actually most of my Epi's are in full shade except for E. warleyense which I've tried planting in full sun last year...I'll see what it does next year.
Almost forgot: E. diphyllum stays small too.

I don't grow or know E. sutchuense, so I don't know how this species behaves in cultivation.

E. rhizomatosum crawls all over the place, so this species is not very appropriate for a rock garden. E. sempervirens is okay, can go to 60 cm height though. I'm still looking for E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts', which is a real stunner.


Where did you get your 'Lilliputian' Wim?

Is someone had a several years experience with Epimedium myrianthum?
And with Epimedium baieali-guizhouense? I planted it in may, last year, it has not flowered for now.


The only "dwarf" cultivars that I grow are of Japanese origin, however, some reaching 30cm, planted since this year, I step back on them.


I don't think 'Lilliputian' is available for sale anywhere in Europe. I bought it directly from Probst who introduced it.

Don't grow E. myrianthum or E. baieali-guizhouense myself, so I can't help you there.

The Japanese cultivars are not easy to find in Europe. For the moment I grow the following (some small, some bigger):

E. ‘Akebono’
E. ‘Amanogawa’
E. ‘Beni Chidori’
E. ‘Beni-Kujaku’
E. ‘Hagoromo’
E. ‘Hakubai’
E. ‘Kaguya Hime’
E. ‘Shiho’
E. x youngianum ‘Azusa’
E. x youngianum ‘Tama Botan’



Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 10, 2010, 04:46:31 AM
Much to discuss, so please excuse the length of this post.

Gerrit:
1.  The grandiflorums such as the ones mentioned like Violet Nanum, Saturn, Bandit, and most other grandiflorums, and many youngianums, all suffer from high heat, sun, and drought.  This summer was a test year, July and August with most days 32-35 C, and record drought; it revealed which were drought resistant and which were not.  I learned a lot from this experience.  My overriding hybridization goal is to introduce drought-resistant genes into all hybrids I might create, the primary contributor being E. sempervirens (for proven drought resistance and for other reasons).

2.  E. davidii EMR - the EMR indicates the early Martyn Rix EMR 4125 introduction of E. davidii from Sichuan Province, China, into cultivation.  My hybrid was merely a spontaneous self-sown garden hybrid with E. brevicornu, it gets the small flower size and fuzzy stems and flower pedicels from brevicornu.  It is okay that you don't like it, I agree it is not a winner and certainly not worth introducing, but unlike other nondescript seedlings that I give away to local garden clubs, this one is distinct on account of the "boxy" or "chunky" flower shape, better flowering than EMR, and better clumping habit... so it might play into further hybridization efforts here, so I kept it.  In terms of E. davidii, the spring and summer of 2010 I did manually hybridize each and every flower on the superior E. davidii "Wolong Selections" over a long period and have 2 flats of seed sown. :D

Geoffrey
First of all, I noticed from your new avatar image, you're a young fellow... fantastic to see this level of interest in young people these days.  I started gardening when I was 8 or 9, and was serious by the time I was 16; it is so encouraging to see young people involved with such endeavors (Wim, you're included, and Gerrit, there is still hope for us sage and slightly older types ;D).

3.  I wish I bought E. chlorandrum from Garden Vision when they had it offered a couple years ago, the photo showed it is the real plant, as one would expect from Darrell.  It is such an elegant species, which would be useful for hybridization.

4.  Thanks to links to your French site, I have not seen it before.  'Koki' looks like a grandiflorum, I don't know it. 'Tanima No Yuka' seems like a youngianum, but most attractive in flower, and the web site's small link indicates it has sensational red fall leaf color.  'Suzuka' has the distinct pink and white flower color of E. grandiflorum 'Princess Susan', but in a youngianum plant, nice.

Wim
5.  E. diphyllum, along with most grandiflorums and youngianums, they're dwarf in flower, but I find that the 2nd flush of leaves on all of these far exceed initial flowering height, and also far exceed dimensions reported in catalogs.  Are my conditions exceptionally rich, I don't think so.  But given room and little competition, many of these get larger than described.  E. x youngianum 'Tama Botan' for example reaches 20" across by 24" tall (50 cm x 60 cm), the mass of second flush foliage so exuberant to easily smother nearby plants.  There are not many E. diphyllum varieties, and maybe they are not as exuberant as some grandiflorums and youngianums, but the second foliar flush needs to be considered.

6.  E. sutchuenense is like E. leptorrhizum, it is a spreader with long underground stolons, and not a clumper.  Garden Vision is one of the few nurseries that reports this difference, essential in knowing how to place one's plants in the garden.  Personally, I prefer clumping types rather than the "runners" as they are much easier to plant to coexist with neighbors.  The aggressively running types of Epimedium, can be crossed with clumping types (grandiflorums, youngianums, many others) to "tame" the aggressive spreading.

7.  I grow regular E. sempervirens, and 12 E. sempervirens cultivars.  All are very drought resistant, all have shiny evergreen leaves, most have poor flowers (or at least, not very colorful ones), most are low-ish and spreading clumps, only a couple like E.s. 'Mars' are upright growers.  They often get to 12-16" (30-40 cm) and with leaves much larger than grandiflorums and youngianums, yet tend to "depress" in summer, fall and winter.  I believe it is one of the prime species for hybridization.  And yes, 'Candy Hearts' is fantastic, mostly as a foliage plant, and slow growing clump, I love it; and hybrids with it are also fascinating and almost always very good.

8.  So far as E. myrianthum and E. baieali-guizhouense, and sagittatum for that matter, Darrell tells me there are dozens of similar allied species in China, a taxonomically difficult group.  This year when I visited the nursery, I photographed these three and other similar allied species, but in my opinion they are negligible for flowers, and only worth growing for foliage.  But since there are so many other fantastic evergreen eppies with great evergreen foliage AND flowers, why bother with them??

9.  Wim, your list of Japanese cultivars, I have all except 'Hakubai' and 'Shiho'... there are so many cultivars out there, mostly youngianum types, many are slight variations on a theme, all are lovely.  My favorite among those you list are 'Azusa', 'Hagoromo', and 'Amanogawa', the latter being a most distinctive plant quite unlike the others.  A recent trend I have noticed, is Japanese cultivars coming out everywhere that are only slight variations, when in fact, so much more could be done with epimediums.

Mark
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 10, 2010, 05:15:11 AM
In support of the previous post, here are some photos:

1    E. x youngianum 'Liliputian' - showing the foliage.  The cultivar is known for having some speckled foliage.  Notice the much larger grandiflorum neighbors flanking the plant on each side.

2    One of the few non-evergreen self-sown hybrids of E. x youngianum 'Liliputian' that showed up, this one is very small, although with leaves larger than E. grandiflorum 'Nanum' as seen on the right, the foliage on this hybrid has red speckling like 'Liliputian'.  The flowers are tiny light pink spurless things, probably crossed with a nearby pink E. diphyllum type.

3-5  E. x youngianum 'Hagoromo' - a most distinctive cultivar, short when flowering with elegant narrow pink and white flowers and red-burnished new foliage. Photo 4 shows the 2nd flush of foliage starting, and photo 5 shows fall color.

6-7  E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' - spring views of foliage and pale flowers.

8-9  E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' on the left, E. x youngianum 'Capella' on the right, at a couple points during the summer.

10   E. x youngianum 'Hanagaruma' - I mention this one because it is one of the finest youngianum types, and I feel that it has such good character; floriferous and well-presented flowers, neat down-turned small leaves that are crisply fringed and crimped. 
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 13, 2010, 04:02:20 PM
What do you all think of hybridizing with E. campanulatum.  It is a distinctive one to be sure, probably better as a specimen in the garden rather than in a pot, because of its splaying stems of little yellow spurless cups.  I rather like it.  I think it would look great planted on a berm or atop a wall, to get a better view of the thimble flowers.

It is highly fertile and makes a load of seed.  I did mark a couple stems with tape, and tried making crosses on those stems, and sowed the seed.  The attempt was more just to see what any hybrids from this might look like.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 13, 2010, 06:17:38 PM
hi Mark,
Nice avatar. Now I can see, how you create new hybrids. With Photoshop.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 13, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
What do you all think of hybridizing with E. campanulatum.  It is a distinctive one to be sure, probably better as a specimen in the garden rather than in a pot, because of its splaying stems of little yellow spurless cups.  I rather like it.  I think it would look great planted on a berm or atop a wall, to get a better view of the thimble flowers.

It is highly fertile and makes a load of seed.  I did mark a couple stems with tape, and tried making crosses on those stems, and sowed the seed.  The attempt was more just to see what any hybrids from this might look like.

Mark,

Don't grow it myself but I like that one. It's a clumper, isn't it?
Would be interesting to see hybrids with bigger flowers displayed in the way they are in E. campanulatum. With which other species/cultivars did you cross?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 13, 2010, 08:00:31 PM
Ok, thanks Wim, so I'll wait that 'Lilliputian' be available in Europe I think, if it is one day, or when I will be able to go at Darrell's nursery...

Mark, what patience you have to manually hybridize each flower of your davidii! Did you have many hybrids of it?
This year, I crossed (?) my three davidii's hybrids (#31, #39, #43), we'll see the result in two or three years...

Well, at 29yo, my students tell me that I'm already "old", they've their own references. But I see there is still a lot of young people who are actively interested in this stuff, botany (my hobby), horticulture, floras and ecosystems around the world, it is reassuring. I started seriously gardening when I was 18 with my first "real" garden, I have many friends who are botanists or nurserymen, it helps.

The Pépiničre des Avettes is a small nursery run by a charming young and dynamic woman (very pretty too ;), she's also beekeeper. ), Marion Basset, which works in collaboration with a botanist and photographer, Cedric Basset, head gardener of the Botanical Garden of Lyon. They often go on expedition in Asia (South America I believe in preparation),they came off a month's journey in Japan in June. They're really nice and interesting. Cedric has several sites including this one : http://www.asianflora.com/ and recently published a small book of asian flora.

Thank you for your opinion about Epimedium myrianthum and E.baieali-guizhouense, and so, yes, thankfully there are plenty of others! I think that Epimedium truncatum isn't very interesting either?

Your Epimedium campanulatum is lovely, I knew it, but have never seen it in real life, if in addition it is highly fertile, it interests me so much. It looks a bit like Epimedium ecalcaratum, no? In the same kind, another I'd like to see is Epimedium platypetalum.

Another question I ask myself is whether there is a gross difference between Epimedium brevicornu and Epimedium brevicornu f.rotundatum? Size of the plant?

And I would like to see Epimedium stellulatum 'Long Leaf Form'.

I had not seen your message Nicole! Salut! We've met, I think, on the forum on the SAJA on which you intervene, especially for the International Rock Gardener.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on December 13, 2010, 08:52:05 PM
Quote
on the forum on the SAJA

Nicole, Geoffrey, tell me, where can one see the SAJA Forum?
 I did not know it existed.... I cannot find it from the SAJJA website.... :-\
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Geo F-W on December 13, 2010, 10:51:42 PM
Hello Maggi,

Well, in fact, I jumped the gun, this is not the SAJA forum, it doesn't exist unfortunately, you're right.
I talk about a forum related to it because some contributors are members of the SAJA. Sorry for the mistake.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: fleurbleue on December 13, 2010, 11:27:32 PM
Hello Maggi,
Some SAJA members post on : http://plantes-passion.forumactif.fr/  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on December 14, 2010, 12:33:27 AM
Hi Nicole, yes, I know that pleasant forum for so many happy French growers  8)
I was hoping that SAJA had made some innovation... the Forums of the other plant societies are such fun...... ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 14, 2010, 01:06:34 AM
Mark, what patience you have to manually hybridize each flower of your davidii! Did you have many hybrids of it?
This year, I crossed (?) my three davidii's hybrids (#31, #39, #43), we'll see the result in two or three years...
For the first time in my adult life, after 32 years working, I found myself unemployed, so I finally got to experience an entire spring in all its glory.  After an hour or two in the morning checking job boards, sending out a resume or two, there wasn't much more I could do in that regard, so I would spend 1-2 hours each day hand hybridizing Epimedium :D.  E. davidii flowers sporadically over a long period, into summer, so almost every day was the fun challenge: "ok, what epimediums are blooming today that I can cross with davidii". :D
I sowed two flats of hybrid seed, maybe 200-300 seed, but we need to wait to see what sort of germination occurs.

Geoffrey, what did you cross your E. davidii with?

Thank you for your opinion about Epimedium myrianthum and E.baieali-guizhouense, and so, yes, thankfully there are plenty of others! I think that Epimedium truncatum isn't very interesting either?
E. truncatum is interesting for its foliage; it has smooth, glossy simple leaves; a rather unique look to the plant.  The flowers are held in clouds of minuscule white blue-budded flowers.  I would see this species as valuable for further hybridizing, although it would take several generations of hybrids to overcome the minute flower size.  I don't grow it, it is near the bottom on my list of desideratum.

Your Epimedium campanulatum is lovely, I knew it, but have never seen it in real life, if in addition it is highly fertile, it interests me so much. It looks a bit like Epimedium ecalcaratum, no? In the same kind, another I'd like to see is Epimedium platypetalum.
Those are the other two with similar spurless or near-spurless yellow thimble flowers.  I don't grow E. ecalcaratum, from photos I've seen, it grows more upright and has spiny-edged leaves.  I also don't know if it spreads or is a clumper.  I do grow E. platypetalum, but I have it in a terrible spot; too dry on a steep embankment, I didn't pay attention when I planted it, forgetting that it is a spreader with annual 8-12" (20-30 cm) rhizomes, so it spread itself into my Iris henryi.  When I finally dig up my large patch of Iris henryi to divide it, I will extricate the E. platypetalum and plant it where it can spread.  Garden Vision Nursery has large swathes of this epimedium planted and it is delightful.  E. campanulatum is a clumper, so better behaved in the garden and of more interest to me for hybridization.
E. ecalcaratum
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumecalcaratum/epimediumecalcaratum.html

Another question I ask myself is whether there is a gross difference between Epimedium brevicornu and Epimedium brevicornu f.rotundatum? Size of the plant?
I don't know the difference, I only have the type plant.  I consider it among the top 10 Epimedium species. In photos I have seen, I don't really see any obvious difference in f. rotundatum.  I'm assuming the forma is so named because of the foliage, but maybe it it for some other subtle characteristic.  On the JohnJearrard site, the form is referred to as a "smaller form of the species".  Do you grow E. brevicornu?
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumbrevicornurotundatum/epimediumbrevicornurotundatum.html

And I would like to see Epimedium stellulatum 'Long Leaf Form'.
E. stellulatum "Long Leaf Forms"
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumstellulatumlongleavedform/epimediumstellulatumlongleavedform.html
I just grow the regular form, and a very fine species it is.  The foliage is low growing and evergreen ( a wide low wide clumper), with strong veining, and cauline foliage on the spring flower stems that are on fire with red color.  Flowers over a very long time, clouds of small white stars.  The long leaf forms are supposed to have leaves the same size, just narrower and more spiny edged. It is reported as exceptionally hardy.  I wasn't in a rush to get the long leaf form, nor the cultivar 'Wudang Star', because in the garden scheme of things, they are more or less similar to the plamt I already had.  It took a while for the regular form to bulk up and finally make an impressive plant, so these two forms go back on my want list.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 14, 2010, 06:00:30 PM
Found my photos of Epimedium truncatum taken at Garden Vision Epimediums in May 2010; this one should give an idea about what this species looks like.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 14, 2010, 06:35:44 PM
Mark,
What a beautiful display.That proud Arisaema sikokianum surrounded by a cloud of yellow epimediumflowers. Breathtaking.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 16, 2010, 12:35:42 PM
Hello Mark,

With much interest I followed in these pages your efforts to realize better plants, for instance: "everblooming"E., or E. with bronze foliage.Could you explane to me the technique of handpollination? I have some questions which bother me: How to choose the right moment, How to avoid neighbour plants get involved. Is it possible to cover pollinated plants, Which of two must be pollinated or both. When harvesting (after 40 days?) I hope to make crosses with E.davidii dwarf form. How to choose the other parent? Just availability of blooming E. at the moment? and so on.

Gerrrit.

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 16, 2010, 07:55:30 PM
With much interest I followed in these pages your efforts to realize better plants, for instance: "everblooming"E., or E. with bronze foliage.Could you explane to me the technique of handpollination? I have some questions which bother me: How to choose the right moment, How to avoid neighbour plants get involved. Is it possible to cover pollinated plants, Which of two must be pollinated or both. When harvesting (after 40 days?) I hope to make crosses with E.davidii dwarf form. How to choose the other parent? Just availability of blooming E. at the moment? and so on.

Gerrrit.

First of all, anything I might say here is based on just my experience this year, as I had never tried hybridizing epimedium before,  That said, I did spend up to 2 hours every day throughout April, May, and June, and through July for late bloomers.  I leaned a lot. It remains to be seen how successful I might have been with this exercise.  I wish I had taken photos of the actual hand pollinating process, although the camera I use is not good with close-up photography.

How to choose the right moment:
On fully open flowers, on most species the anthers open to release pollen by late morning.  Some flowers take two days to fully open.  Touch a stamen to see if any yellow pollen (green in a few species) sticks to your fingertip, it's ready if it does stick.  Darrell Probst actually uses his finger, puts pollen on it, goes to the target parent, and presses the stigma against the pollen.  What I like to do, is pick some flowers with ripe pollen, then fold back the sepals and petals to reveal the stamens & anthers and pinch them together into a bundle, like a tiny paintbrush ready to swab the stigma on the flowers of the target plant.

How to avoid neighbour plants get involved:
I took no precautions to isolate plants, nor do I have a greenhouse for more controlled pollination/hybridization.  However, I give my "eppies" enough room to grow into their own clumps, and if one gets out into the garden by mid or late morning, you have a good chance of catching the flowers when pollen is ready and the stigmas are receptive, and those efforts will probably result in a high percentage of hand-made crosses versus bee-made crosses.

Is it possible to cover pollinated plants:
I suppose it would be possible to create some protective barriers with reemay or other suitable light weight material, to better guaranty no pollen contamination by bees, but for me, I couldn't be bothered.  Once a fresh stigma is dusted with pollen manually, it stands a pretty high chance that it will succeed.  And if I get a few surprises by bee pollination, I'm okay with the risk.

Which of two must be pollinated or both:
Good question, and it depends on what you are trying to achieve.  It also depends on what traits are strong or recessive, and much of that information will only be learned by trying it both ways.  Example, if pollen on E. x youngianum 'Liliputian' where put on a larger E. sempervirens cultivar, would the resulting plants show the very small plant size (I'm not sure, have not tried it that way yet), but I have seen first hand when 'Liliputian' is the seed parent, the small plant size comes through strongly.

How to choose the other parent? Just availability of blooming E. at the moment?
Another good question.  I have jotted down lots of notes, creating an informal plan of sorts, of characteristics I'd like to see in Epimedium, and set forth some personal hybridization objectives.  Part of it has to be pure experimentation, to see what the possibilities might be.  Part of what drives my goals is "what to avoid"... I think I'll scream is I see yet another white, pink, or rose Japanese hybrid youngianum type that looks just like 50 other youngianum types.  There is so much more that can be done.  So choose the pollen parent based on characteristics you would like to see realized in the offspring.  At peak Epimedium flowering season, you should have flower & pollen availability of most.  If I still have the opportunity time-wise to repeat the process this spring, I plan on saving pollen on some of the earliest types to pollinate some of the later types.

Later in the season, when only the few late blooming Epimedium are blooming, I will opportunistically go around and search out odd summer reblooms, such as E. grandiflorum 'Princess Susan' will often produce a few late blooms in June & July, to keep the process going.

This is the fun part of the gardening process, I can daydream endlessly about what the possibilities might be and what I want to try next.

And just for something pretty to look at, here's a photo of E. x youngianum 'Marchacos Sprite' at Garden Vision Epimediums, a lovely cultivar with neat dark-toned leaves.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 17, 2010, 12:05:17 PM
Thank you Mark for your long EPIstle. There is much to reflect of.

I think there will be some more questions according to your approach of hybridization. I will later contact you through this forum.
By the way, I think all these pages will become a kind of guide for epimedium beginners.

Gerrit.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 18, 2010, 05:26:18 AM
Here's another one to consider, such simple elegance, E. x setosum (E. diphyllum x sempervirens), what might hybrids be like?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 18, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
Hi Mark,

In your reply #238 you showed us 4  photos of mixed hybrids seedlings. Many being hybrids with E."Dark Beauty". With what did you crossed them? Are you satisfied with them? Did you get what you wanted, or are they coincidental been pollinated?
What I see is, that the original plant looks better than the hybrids. Or am I wrong? Is it true, that seedlings are often weaker than the mother plant, who was cloned mostly by dividing. I have seen in my garden so often plants getting weaker and weaker after sowing year after year, until they disappear.

Gerrit.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 18, 2010, 07:54:41 PM
What I see is, that the original plant looks better than the hybrids. Or am I wrong? Is it true, that seedlings are often weaker than the mother plant, who was cloned mostly by dividing. I have seen in my garden so often plants getting weaker and weaker after sowing year after year, until they disappear.
Gerrit.

Gerrit, sorry to answer in Mark's place but I know what you mean, that is most often the case with plants which are not growing in their optimal growing conditions...for example when trying to sow Meconopsis in Belgian/Dutch weather conditions  ;) or when sowing alpine plants on sealevel, the seedlings get weaker and weaker year after year. The causes for this are probably infections, bad growing conditions, absence of natural pollinators...

I've never heard of that problem with Epi's. Mark's hybrids are just smaller because they are younger then his E. 'Dark beauty'...I think.
You can get undesirable hybrids but that is something different all together.

Mark, correct me if I'm wrong please.
It would be interesting to hear if you have come across this problem with Epi's.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 18, 2010, 08:11:27 PM
Here's another one to consider, such simple elegance, E. x setosum (E. diphyllum x sempervirens), what might hybrids be like?

Very beautiful indeed, I don't grow this natural hybrid but it seems I should.  ;)

I think Probst sells one x setosum hybrid: E. 'Buttered Popcorn (E. x setosum x davidii).
And E. x sasakii is a natural occuring hybrid between sempervirens and x setosum, so that should be (E.diphyllum x sempervirens)x sempervirens. I grow two forms of this hybrid since last year. So, no pictures yet but if I remember I will post some in Spring.

Have you tried to make hybrids with E. x setosum yet?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 19, 2010, 01:46:04 AM
Gerrit, Wim answered correctly, Dark Beauty hybrids are just young 3-year seedlings. My original Dark Beauty is 12 years old.  I can fit about 120 seedlings under a Cornus kousa tree that you see in my reply #238, but in three years they fight for space. All were dug out and planted around in the garden where they have more space, not-so-special seedlings are given away to a local Garden Club sale. The whole bed was replanted this year with about 140 new 1-year & 2-year seedlings.

I have not heard of any problem with loss of vigor in Epi seedlings; I don't think Epi's have this problem.  In cases where Epi's struggle or show lack of vigor, it has typically been a culture problem (in my garden, being too dry can be a factor).

My 'Dark Beauty' hybrid seedlings were bee pollinated self-sown, found under the leaf canopy of my main plant, I label them indicating which plant they were found under, then planted out in a bed.  I get to guess what the pollen parent might be based on observed characteristics.  I was pleased to see that highly colorful leaf hybrids would appear, so the dark leaf coloring passes to the progeny, although none were nearly as dark as 'Dark Beauty'.  You'll see that the seedlings are all very pale flowered, most likely crossed with neighboring E. grandiflorum 'Larchmont', 'Pseudo-Larchmont', 'Queen Esta', and f. flavescens 'La Rocaille'. This spring, I did attempt hand hybridizing 'Dark Beauty', the pollen parents were a variety of distinctly different and deeper color Epi's (mostly yellow flowered types), as an exercise to see if I get hybrids with dark coffee foliage and other color flowers.

Wim, I had forgotten about E. 'Buttered Popcorn' being an E. x setosum x davidii hybrid (not a deliberate cross, but yet another spontaneous hybrid from Harold Epstein's garden).  I have 'Buttered Popcorn', and it flowered okay, probably needs another year to become established. The one called E. 'Sunshowers' is a wonderful and totally unique soft yellow and white flowered plant (I posted 3 photos of it in bloom earlier in this topic), here's a link:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg149483#msg149483

I did spend some time making crosses with E. x setosum, once again, mostly just as an experiment.  It makes lots of seed, and I see this plant having a lot of potential.  It also tends to be drought tolerant, due to sempervirens background.

I have three forms of E. x sasakii, I've shown photos before, but here they are together. Interesting little plants, small slow growing, with small pale flowers, not very showy but with interesting evergreen oval foliage that is often colored red.  The best one is Darrell's selection called 'Melody', which is semi-showy in flower.  I'm not planning on using these for hybridization.  I'm curious to know how they grow for you and what you think of them.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 19, 2010, 04:39:17 PM
I have three forms of E. x sasakii, I've shown photos before, but here they are together. Interesting little plants, small slow growing, with small pale flowers, not very showy but with interesting evergreen oval foliage that is often colored red.  The best one is Darrell's selection called 'Melody', which is semi-showy in flower.  I'm not planning on using these for hybridization.  I'm curious to know how they grow for you and what you think of them.

Mark, one of the forms I have is twice as heigh as a normal E. x sasakii. It was traded with a Japanese priest (not by me), so I don't think it is available anywhere "in the west".
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 19, 2010, 05:09:46 PM

Mark, one of the forms I have is twice as heigh as a normal E. x sasakii. It was traded with a Japanese priest (not by me), so I don't think it is available anywhere "in the west".

Wim, it doesn't surprise me there are more forms of this natural hybrid in Japan.  Do you have a photo of your plant?  What is your opinion of that plant?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 19, 2010, 05:34:03 PM

Mark, one of the forms I have is twice as heigh as a normal E. x sasakii. It was traded with a Japanese priest (not by me), so I don't think it is available anywhere "in the west".

Wim, it doesn't surprise me there are more forms of this natural hybrid in Japan.  Do you have a photo of your plant?  What is your opinion of that plant?

No pic, I'm sorry. I might be able to get a picture from the person I got it from...or else next year. This form seems to be a lot more vigorous than the normal form but like I said I only have them since last year and what I'm telling you comes from the experience of the person who gave it to me.
For the rest it has the same pale flowers and red young foliage as the average E. x sasakii.

I don't think it can bring something special into a cross that you can't get from another species or cultivar.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 21, 2010, 03:52:27 AM
Going through my older digital photos I came across the following two, both showing E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' in spring 2005, a year after planting them in 2004.  In the second photo, there is also E. x youngianum 'Capella'.  Notice the seed pods on 'Candy Hearts'.  I'm working on my top 12 Epimediums list, and 'Candy Hearts' is easily on that list.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 21, 2010, 08:53:15 AM
Yea, magnificent leaflets, but very tiny flowers. You must have at least 3 dozens of epimediums on you top 12 list Mark. (ha ha)
Naylor Creek Nursery has their 2011 catalog online. (amber queen and Stormcloud) With for me at least one dozen E. from my "wanted list". But "The pond" he.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 21, 2010, 02:59:15 PM
Yea, magnificent leaflets, but very tiny flowers. You must have at least 3 dozens of epimediums on you top 12 list Mark. (ha ha)
Naylor Creek Nursery has their 2011 catalog online. (amber queen and Stormcloud) With for me at least one dozen E. from my "wanted list". But "The pond" he.

Gerrit

Candy Hearts is basically for the foliage (and what it offers for hybridization); you're right, the flowers aren't much; I'm sure that can be overcome with hybridization... I have two flats of manually crossed hybrid seed waiting for germination  :D
Once established, flowering on Candy Hearts can be a bit better:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4769.0;attach=216357;image

Do you import from Naylor Creek?  Their prices seem lower than some other nurseries.  Have you seen Plant Delights Nursery epimedium listing?  Prices not so cheap, but some good things, and some of their own introductions.
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Plants/Genus/Epimedium
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on December 21, 2010, 04:28:33 PM
Yea, magnificent leaflets, but very tiny flowers. You must have at least 3 dozens of epimediums on you top 12 list Mark. (ha ha)
Naylor Creek Nursery has their 2011 catalog online. (amber queen and Stormcloud) With for me at least one dozen E. from my "wanted list". But "The pond" he.

Gerrit

Gerrit,

if you want 'Stormcloud'... Daniëlle had it for sale, don't know if she will have it for sale again next year

Have you seen Plant Delights Nursery epimedium listing?  Prices not so cheap, but some good things, and some of their own introductions.
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Plants/Genus/Epimedium

I like their 'Pink Parasol' especially...Mark, do you grow it?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 21, 2010, 05:54:14 PM
if you want 'Stormcloud'... Daniëlle had it for sale, don't know if she will have it for sale again next year
Quote


Well Wim, I have this Stormcloud for 2 years, but I remembered, Mark was looking after her as well as amber queen.



Do you import from Naylor Creek?  Their prices seem lower than some other nurseries.  Have you seen Plant Delights Nursery epimedium listing?  Prices not so cheap, but some good things, and some of their own introductions.
Quote



Mark, as I said, I wish I could import from Naylor Creek. Prices are very reasonable, even for Europeans. I contacted them. It was no problem for them to ship. But the shippingcosts are very high and the phyto &100. So I'll wait and see if those epies appear once here.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 21, 2010, 06:07:50 PM

Mark, as I said, I wish I could import from Naylor Creek. Prices are very reasonable, even for Europeans. I contacted them. It was no problem for them to ship. But the shipping costs are very high and the phyto &100. So I'll wait and see if those epies appear once here.

Gerrit

Oh, sorry, now I understand what you meant by "The pond" reference. ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 21, 2010, 06:10:32 PM

Have you seen Plant Delights Nursery epimedium listing?  Prices not so cheap, but some good things, and some of their own introductions.  http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Plants/Genus/Epimedium

I like their 'Pink Parasol' especially...Mark, do you grow it?

I don't grow Pink Parasol, looks like a pretty one.  There are several on the PDN list I want, 'Pink Parasol', 'Pink Elf', 'Spritzer', 'Yokihi', and 'Amber Queen'Epimedium acuminatum 'Guiding Light' looks interesting too.

I'm more interested in 'Pink Elf', intrigued by the hybrid example... although it looks to me E. pubescens is the seed parent and the putative E. leptorrhizum would be the pollen parent, opposite of how they list it. 
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Plants/Epimedium-Pink-Elf-PP-17228.html

This year was the first year I had a plant of E. pubescens "Shaanxi Forms" flower well, and I'm impressed. With 'Pink Elf' we see the flowers enlarged somewhat and with rich pink coloration in the cup... very nice.  The star-like ascending shape of the white sepals on E. pubescens gives an elegant look to the flowers.  Leaf color on pubescens stayed greener (light green) with some bright speckling and coloring, but not as hot and fiery orange-red as with new foliage on the similar E. stellulatum.  Other forms of E. pubescens are said to be hardy to Zone 6, but "Shaanxi Forms" is reported hardy to Zone 5, and it has been hardy and evergreen in my garden, a smaller lower growing plant than E. stellulatum.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on December 21, 2010, 06:58:04 PM

Yes, E.Yokihi, what a flowers! And what a parents!

By the way, what does mean PDN list? P from Probst? Perhaps a list from the numerous beautiful hybrids you have seen this spring at you visit there Mark?

Gerrit.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 21, 2010, 07:06:50 PM

By the way, what does mean PDN list? P from Probst? Perhaps a list from the numerous beautiful hybrids you have seen this spring at you visit there Mark?

Gerrit.

PDN is Plant Delights Nursery by Tony Avent.  I did show some Epi's from my visits to Garden Vision Epimedium in this topic, I can show more sometime.  Most the plants I show came from Garden Vision. :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 24, 2010, 04:21:19 PM
Warm Christmas colors on Epimedium lishihchenii and stellulatum on this sunny Christmas Eve, they look hot enough to melt snow :D

Merry Christmas Epimedium fans :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on December 24, 2010, 05:10:29 PM
Stunning colours, McMark.... very seasonal.... will they be looking that good for EPIphany?? :D ;) :)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on January 01, 2011, 01:26:29 PM
A happy new year for all Epimedium-lovers and of course all Non-lovers.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 03, 2011, 02:52:40 PM
Gerrit, I like the Epimedium scenario... did you fire off the rocket fireworks?  Yet another fantastic use of Epimediums, as fireworks launchpads ;D

I've been traveling for the past week, belated Happy New Year.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: manicbotanic on January 03, 2011, 10:34:23 PM
hi everyone.
does anybody know {or grow }epimedium the giant....
help i need it..heard it was about $500 though...ouch.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 03, 2011, 11:39:41 PM
hi everyone.
does anybody know {or grow }epimedium the giant....
help i need it..heard it was about $500 though...ouch.

Hello Shaun, there are a few people who grow it, in fact there are some good photos of it here in this topic. 
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4769.msg148231#msg148231

This was a new acquisition for me in 2009; I'm thrilled to have it, and there were a few flowers too.  It was introduced by Darrell Probst in Garden Vision Epimediuns in 2007, listed in the 2010 catalog under their "Rarities for Breeders and Collectors" section, for $300 US.  Here's a not-so-great photo of my plant flowering.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 04, 2011, 01:13:36 AM
We have seedlings of The Giant and The Giant x wushanense, both from Philip.  We have not had to raise the greenhouse roof or open the louvres just yet.

I will let Philip know he is being beckoned on this thread.

I hear you got a rattling today in New England Mark.  :o

johnw       - +1c and getting cold.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 04, 2011, 04:37:42 AM
We have seedlings of The Giant and The Giant x wushanense, both from Philip.  We have not had to raise the greenhouse roof or open the louvres just yet.

I will let Philip know he is being beckoned on this thread.

I hear you got a rattling today in New England Mark.  :o

johnw       - +1c and getting cold.

With the limited flowering on my division of "The Giant" I did use every flower for hybridization, and sowed what little seed I got.  We can compare notes in 3 years time to see what develops :D

John, I'm not sure what the "rattling" is that you refer to, was there an earthquake report of some significance someplace?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 04, 2011, 12:29:04 PM
I hear you got a rattling today in New England Mark.  :o
johnw       - +1c and getting cold.
John, I'm not sure what the "rattling" is that you refer to, was there an earthquake report of some significance someplace?
[/quote]

Yes Mark, there was a 3.9 earthquake in New England England yesterday. Did you sleep through it? ;)

johnw  -   -3c
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Mick McLoughlin on January 04, 2011, 12:54:21 PM
There was an eathquake in Northern England last night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12109625
Not felt in this far south though.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 04, 2011, 01:23:47 PM
Mick  - Only 3,000+ miles off!

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 04, 2011, 08:56:34 PM
Christchurch is still getting aftershocks of up to 4.9 and even Haiti is still moving, a full year after the mainevent.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: manicbotanic on January 04, 2011, 10:47:22 PM
thankyou mark..there the pics that made me first aware of it..looking at them again makes me want it more..am sure there must be few others in uk willing to split an order to garden vision..if not its empty suitcase and flight to hubbardston.. ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2011, 01:29:55 AM
More a lurker than a poster but I'm sitting at home with the flu and have little energy to do more than surf the web. Feeling a bit better today and with a nudge from John Weagle I'll post some pics from last spring. Note a few seedlings of Epimedium The Giant flowered the same year they germinated, I anxiously await the rest and to see how they perform as mature plants. Hopefully many will be crosses with the equally good Epimedium wushanense, which should never be confused with the plant marketed as E. wushanense Caramel. Philip


Epimedium the giant.JPG
Epimedium the Giant spray.JPG
Epimedium The Giant 1.0.JPG
Epimedium The Giant Hybrid1.JPG
Epimedium The Giant Hybrid 2.JPG
Epimedium The Giant hybrid 3.JPG
Epimedium brachyrhizum.JPG
Epimedium brachyrhizum1.JPG
Epimedium chlorandrum.JPG
Epimedium davidi or something close
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2011, 01:33:10 AM
More

Epimedium davidii.JPG
Epimedium dolichostemon.JPG
Epimedium epstenii.JPG
epimedium fangi.JPG
Epimedium fargesii.JPG
Epimedium Hotlips.JPG
Epimedium ogisui.JPG
Epimedium pauciflorum.JPG
Epimedium pink champange.JPG
Epimedium Skydiver.JPG
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Philip MacDougall on January 06, 2011, 01:38:53 AM
Epimedium wushanense. I've never been happy with my photos of this plant, they never seem to convey how good it is. I'll make another concerted effort this spring. Philip
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: johnw on January 06, 2011, 02:01:51 AM
Sitting in a hotel room in St. John's. Just had supper with Todd B. and Bodil L. and much plant talk.

My that E. chlorandrum is a beauty in new leaf.  Also the wushanense is spectacular.

Philip - I hope you don't have the Yin Yang Huo flu, it is said to be very nasty and said to cause delusions in height.

johnw - about -3c but wallflowers in bloom outside the door!
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 06, 2011, 02:31:07 AM
Philip, I nearly fell out of my chair looking at those scrumptious Epimediums.  I know that your are trialing some of Darrell Probst's plants, and it seems that they are doing extremely well for you.  The bounty of flowers on 'The Giant' is utterly ridiculous (and I mean that in a good way), all I can say is WOW!  I hope my new 2009 start of this plant reaches even half the proportions and floral bounty of your plant.

Interesting to see the hybrids... amazing that you had flowering in the first year from seed, it must make a world of difference having a greenhouse than not having one.  Are all three hybrids with E. wushanense, or are other species/cultivars possibly involved?  On the darker purplish one, I'd have to imagine some other parent is involved.

Regarding E. 'Hotlips', I recognize this as one from Diana Reeck of Collector's Nursery, although it is one I don't grow... very attractive!  Just googled and I find that E. 'Skydiver' is yet another one from Collector's Nursery... not familiar with that one, looks distinctive.  I would like to know more about the possible parentage of these two.

The foliage on your E. chlorandrum is spectacular, as is your E. wushananse plant... I like the buds in the 3rd shot.  I grow the one Darrell calls "Spiny-leaved Forms", which grow shorter and has more compact closely spaced white and yellow flowers; I think I like the taller more upright growing E. wushanense for white flowers that are much better displayed, although the foliage on the "Spiny-leafed Forms" is worth growing for the foliage alone.

Thanks for showing all these.  May you feel better and recover quickly from the flu, although you do realize that you are probably highly contagious and have certainly spread Chinese Epimedium Flu through the forum by now ;) ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Brian Ellis on January 06, 2011, 09:55:32 AM
Philip I am sitting here absolutely stagmogrified, that Epimedium 'The Giant' is something else :o  and the E. wushananse is most attractive too.  Thanks for stunning us ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 06, 2011, 11:10:11 AM
Philip, I'm sorry to hear you are suffering with the 'flu.... but I have to say that it is great for the rest of us, since it has given us the chance to get you posting here!
 Thanks... and get well (quite) soon!!  8) :-*
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on January 06, 2011, 01:36:04 PM
During this dark period we all can use an injection, which let us feel somewhat better, but on the other hand makes us long to the spring still so far away. Fine pictures Philip.



  May you feel better and recover quickly from the flu, although you do realize that you are probably highly contagious and have certainly spread Chinese Epimedium Flu through the forum by now ;) ;D
[/quote]

Good joke Mark, and true words Maggi

Gerrit
Title: Epimedium 2011
Post by: WimB on March 27, 2011, 12:57:47 PM
The first Epi in flower here this season:

Epimedium x youngianum 'Freckles'
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: WimB on March 27, 2011, 02:42:34 PM
And some more in flower today:

E. x versicolor 'Cherry Tart'
E. x warleyense
E. x warleyense 'Orangekönigin'
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: gerrit on March 31, 2011, 02:50:33 PM
On this day with Scotish mist, I took pictures from the first emerging E., #1 and #2 Epimedium davidii, dwarf form and, #3 and #4 her big sister Epimedium davidii, still without flowers, but with raindrops.

Gerrit.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: Hans J on April 02, 2011, 04:21:33 PM
Here also my first Epimedium have starting with flowers -a new one for me is "Fire Dragon"
After the book from Stearn is it a cross ( E.davidii x E.leptorrhizum )
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: ChrisB on April 04, 2011, 01:00:48 PM
Just bought this little beauty on Saturday at the Edinburgh Show:  E. Buckland Spider
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 04, 2011, 10:12:11 PM
You had quite an expensive day Chris? :D
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: fleurbleue on April 04, 2011, 11:43:39 PM
E. x versicolor 'Cherry Tart' is very nice Wim, I didn't know it  ;) I have bought E. x versicolor cupreum and E. Enchantress friday at St Jean de Beauregard plants fair
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: ChrisB on April 05, 2011, 09:55:59 AM
I sure did Lesley.  Pocket book has moths flying out now, nothing else.  But these nurseries have such wonderful plants, and the local group stall was very good too.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: WimB on April 05, 2011, 04:09:05 PM
Hans and Chris, both are very beautiful cultivars.

Nicole, I'll keep you in mind when I divide 'Cherry Tart'.  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: fleurbleue on April 05, 2011, 06:28:41 PM
 ;D ;D ;D Thank you Wim  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: ChrisB on April 05, 2011, 06:40:33 PM
Fire Dragon is lovely, I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for that one...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: WimB on May 04, 2011, 12:06:07 PM
Some more in flower in my garden:

Epimedium dolichostemon
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Yellow Princess'
Epimedium x youngianum 'Tama botan'
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: Guff on May 17, 2011, 01:08:20 AM
Anyone know the names of these?
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 22, 2011, 01:15:40 PM
May be I am too late but my Epimediums are blooming now.

E. macrosepalum
(http://cs4942.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/y_b8c92e25.jpg)

Epimedium leptorrhizum
(http://cs4942.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/y_6ae22e1a.jpg)

E. colchicum Baked Milk
(http://cs4942.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/y_85825e53.jpg)

Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 22, 2011, 04:21:51 PM
Wonderful pictures of those beautiful plants, Olga. I love the macrosepalum and the 'Baked Milk', I had never heard about that cultivar before.
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: Olga Bondareva on May 22, 2011, 04:26:25 PM
...the 'Baked Milk', I had never heard about that cultivar before.
It's of my selection. (http://forum.tvoysad.ru/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif) I found it 3 years ago at Black Sea coast. It grows very well and yesterday I found a small seedling near it. It's very interesting what it will be like...
Title: Re: Epimedium listing: including Epimedium 2010
Post by: WimB on May 23, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
...the 'Baked Milk', I had never heard about that cultivar before.
It's of my selection. (http://forum.tvoysad.ru/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif) I found it 3 years ago at Black Sea coast. It grows very well and yesterday I found a small seedling near it. It's very interesting what it will be like...

You made a very good selection, Olga. Lovely Plant! :)
When the seedling flowers, show us a picture...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: johnw on June 05, 2011, 06:42:35 PM
Epimedium volunteer in a pot of E. acuminatum.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: arisaema on July 04, 2011, 03:16:34 PM
Any suggestions on this species from Northern Vietnam? Stearn isn't much help, he doesn't list a single species from Vietnam, and the flower stalk is leafless.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: TheOnionMan on July 18, 2011, 03:12:07 AM
Any suggestions on this species from Northern Vietnam? Stearn isn't much help, he doesn't list a single species from Vietnam, and the flower stalk is leafless.

@Arisaema:
Fascinating!  I'm not sure what species it is, although I have studied these photos against the probable yellow-flowered species that I know about; the flowers look somewhat E. membranaceum, bright yellow, very shallow cup, arched spreading spurs, and most importantly, white-pink-spotted or tinged outer sepals.  It has foliage that looks like membranaceum as well.  But it is a short spray; E. membranaceum has very long willowy stems with lots of flowers.  E. davidii and E. flavum have flowers with much longer "boxier" cups; franchetii flowers look similar but are most often a rather pale sulphur yellow; I don't think it is lishihchenii... maybe it is indeed a new undescribed species?

John: nice E. acuminatum volunteer!

Guff:  I'm afraid it is simply too hard to ID Epimediums from just a single flower close-up, even as good as those close-ups are, one also needs to see the foliage and plant habit.  Even so, it might be only possible to narrow down the the field to a "youngianum hybrid", or a "grandiflorum hybrid" at best.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: johnw on August 27, 2011, 06:38:54 PM
First flowers on 'The Giant' x wushanense.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: fleurbleue on August 27, 2011, 06:39:58 PM
Nice one John  ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: TheOnionMan on August 27, 2011, 07:19:02 PM
I agree, good one John... just how giant is your plant?  My plant of "the giant" did not bloom this year :'(
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: johnw on August 27, 2011, 08:07:14 PM
I will try to take a better pic when the sun moves a bit.

Mark - The Giant is by no means giant yet, it hasn't been pampered and divisions are still in pots.

johnw
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: arisaema on August 27, 2011, 08:13:27 PM
@Arisaema:
Fascinating!  I'm not sure what species it is, although I have studied these photos against the probable yellow-flowered species that I know about; the flowers look somewhat E. membranaceum, bright yellow, very shallow cup, arched spreading spurs, and most importantly, white-pink-spotted or tinged outer sepals.  It has foliage that looks like membranaceum as well.  But it is a short spray; E. membranaceum has very long willowy stems with lots of flowers.  E. davidii and E. flavum have flowers with much longer "boxier" cups; franchetii flowers look similar but are most often a rather pale sulphur yellow; I don't think it is lishihchenii... maybe it is indeed a new undescribed species?

Sorry, only noticed your reply today. It might be E. membranaceum, the plants didn't flower this spring so I guess this may be a late and aberrant inflorescence? They have grown considerably so I'm hoping they'll all flower next spring. There's supposed to be a red-flowered species in addition to the yellow one, but they look almost identical in leaf...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2011
Post by: kiwi on October 12, 2011, 08:39:35 AM
Not the best shot, but one of my favourites for the new growth let alone a stunning flower - E leptorrhizum.
China - Guizhou and Sichuan provinces.
Cheers,
Doug.
Title: Epimedium 2012
Post by: Webster008 on April 08, 2012, 12:58:49 PM
First Epimediums starting to flower.

Epimedium Pink Constellation and Epimedium Fire Dragon
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: Webster008 on April 08, 2012, 01:02:07 PM

Messed up the photos :-\

Photo 1 and 4 E Fire Dragon
Photo 2 and 3 E Pink Constellation
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: shelagh on April 11, 2012, 02:46:22 PM
Nice photos Rick.  Epimediums are difficult to do justice to because the slightest breeze and they are away.  Hope there are lots more to come.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: Shadylanejewel on April 13, 2012, 06:23:15 AM
First in my garden are:

Epimedium 'Purple Prince'
Epimedium brachyrrhizum
Epeimedium rubrum
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: YT on April 17, 2012, 03:08:07 PM
Epimedium grandiflorum var. thunbergianum 'Joshu-zakura'

Selected from a natural habitat at Mt. Akagi in Gunma prefecture, Japan, by its clear pink flowers atop of green stems. E. g. var. thunbergianum usually have reddish stems except albino form.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: fleurbleue on April 17, 2012, 06:58:48 PM
So cute !  :D
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 18, 2012, 04:03:44 PM
Very nice, YT!

Some in flower here now:

Epimedium 'Perrine's White' (in the garden of a friend)
Epimedium epsteinii
Epimedium pauciflorum (for the leaves)
Epimedium 'Spine Tingler' (also for the leaves)
Epimedium x sasakii
Epimedium x warleyense 'Orangekönigin'
Epimedium x warleyense
and Epimedium x youngianum 'Freckles' (very nice leaves)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: johnw on April 18, 2012, 06:41:00 PM
A nice collection of Epimediums there Wim. Is Spine Tingler a wushanense hybrid?

johnw  +14c
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 19, 2012, 03:32:04 PM
A nice collection of Epimediums there Wim. Is Spine Tingler a wushanense hybrid?

johnw  +14c

Thanks, John!

Epimedium 'Spine Tingler' should be Epimedium species nova 'Spine Tingler'. It comes from Darrell Probst.
There's also Epimedium wushanense 'Spiny leaved forms'...I don't know if there's a relation between those two plants!

Maybe Mark can tell us more about these?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: EmmaCampanula on April 19, 2012, 07:53:21 PM
I like Epimedium very much and am glad that the first flowers appear.
Epimedium pubigerum
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: EmmaCampanula on April 19, 2012, 07:55:08 PM
And the tiny lovely Epimedium x youngianum 'niveum'.

Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 20, 2012, 01:00:17 PM
Emma, your epimedium portrait photos illustrate well what delicate beauties these plants are.

I'm a big fan of E. pubigerum, such a simple little flower but often producing a cloud of those tiny blooms.  Will post more about some current Epimedium bloomings soon.

Wim: as soon as the weekend arrives, I'll chime in with some Epimedium talk ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2012, 06:57:40 PM
Emma,

I love both of your white flowered Epi's...simply stunning

Three more in flower here today!

Epimedium dolichostemon
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Mugawa Gen Pan' 'Mukawa Genpei' (thanks for the correction, Tatsuo!)
and Epimedium x youngianum 'Merlin'
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: arisaema on April 21, 2012, 08:53:41 PM
Is Epimedium fargesii a runner or a clumper? I have Epimedium qingchengshanense (http://www.plantsystematics.com/qikan/manage/wenzhang/aps06138.pdf) in flower in the nursery, but I suspect that's a name that will end up in synonymy...
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: EmmaCampanula on April 21, 2012, 09:55:44 PM
Thank you Mark & Wim!
Wim, I like your 'Merlin' of course! But Epimedium dolichostemon is also very interesting, it looks so fragile. How tall does it grow?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 07:06:54 AM
Is Epimedium fargesii a runner or a clumper? I have Epimedium qingchengshanense (http://www.plantsystematics.com/qikan/manage/wenzhang/aps06138.pdf) in flower in the nursery, but I suspect that's a name that will end up in synonymy...

A clumper! E. qingchengshanense will probably be lumped together with E. fargesii indeed. Do you have a picture of the flower of E. qingchengshanense?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 07:09:56 AM
But Epimedium dolichostemon is also very interesting, it looks so fragile. How tall does it grow?

Emma,
it grows to maximum 30 cm (here it only gets 20-25 cm with the second flush of leaves!)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: arisaema on April 22, 2012, 11:39:42 AM
A clumper! E. qingchengshanense will probably be lumped together with E. fargesii indeed. Do you have a picture of the flower of E. qingchengshanense?

Crappy weather, so crappy pics... From Qingcheng Houshan, about 1500m altitude.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: arisaema on April 22, 2012, 11:52:27 AM
This one is supposedly from N Vietnam, anyone care to guess what it is?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: YT on April 22, 2012, 11:56:18 AM
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Mugawa Gen Pan' (I wonder what that name means: YT? Tetsuo?)

Wim, that must be E. grandiflorum var. thunbergianum '武川源平 = Mukawa (Mugawa) Genpei'.
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~yamakusa/ika-005.jpg
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 12:01:58 PM
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Mugawa Gen Pan' (I wonder what that name means: YT? Tetsuo?)

Wim, that must be E. grandiflorum var. thunbergianum '武川源平 = Mukawa (Mugawa) Genpei'.
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~yamakusa/ika-005.jpg

Thanks YT! I'll change the label! Does that name mean anything specific or is it just a description?
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 12:03:54 PM
A clumper! E. qingchengshanense will probably be lumped together with E. fargesii indeed. Do you have a picture of the flower of E. qingchengshanense?

Crappy weather, so crappy pics... From Qingcheng Houshan, about 1500m altitude.

Thanks Bjřrnar,

I would say that falls within the normal variation of E. fargesii. The flower might be a bit finer, but whatever it is, it looks nice!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: arisaema on April 22, 2012, 12:07:02 PM
I would say that falls within the normal variation of E. fargesii. The flower might be a bit finer, but whatever it is, it looks nice!

Yeah, that's what I thought too... Should have a fargesii from Jiuchongshan, Chengkou in flower next spring, will compare them then.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 12:14:54 PM
This one is supposedly from N Vietnam, anyone care to guess what it is?

Epimedium davidii
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: arisaema on April 22, 2012, 12:20:02 PM
This one is supposedly from N Vietnam, anyone care to guess what it is?

Epimedium davidii

Thanks, Wim! E. davidii was my first thought as well, but Vietnam is a loooong way down from Baoxing... Maybe the "red flowered" Vietnamese species will prove to be more interesting, I had hoped for flowers this spring, but have only had leaves so far.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 12:36:36 PM
This one is supposedly from N Vietnam, anyone care to guess what it is?

Epimedium davidii

Thanks, Wim! E. davidii was my first thought as well, but Vietnam is a loooong way down from Baoxing... Maybe the "red flowered" Vietnamese species will prove to be more interesting, I had hoped for flowers this spring, but have only had leaves so far.

Yes, but if I remember correctly E. davidii grows in Yunnan too (not only in Sichuan)...don't know where in Yunnan exactly, though!

I'm looking forward too seeing the red-flowered Vietnamese Epi's!!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 22, 2012, 03:05:11 PM
Regarding E. fargesii and E. qingchenganense, I grow both and have photos to compare.  Certainly qingchenganense looks similar to fargesii, but there are some differences too, although as others have expressed, perhaps not enough differences to ultrimately maintain species status. I hadn't even thought about calling into doubt its species status, as it just seemed a finer plant than fargesii, even though fargesii-like.

3 views of E. qingchenganense:
[attachthumb=1] [attachthumb=2]

[attachthumb=3]


Flower comparison, qingchenganense on the left, fargesii on the right.  Interstingly, the former has yellow pollen, whereas fargesii has green pollen.
[attachthumb=4] [attachthumb=5]


Foliage of E. fargesii picked today, evergreen foliage on left, new season foliage on the right. My impression has been that qingchenganense has smaller, more oval foliage, and less dramatically angular lobed as in fargesii, that fargesii has more narrow foliage.  But of course, such characteristics could easily fall within species variability.
[attachthumb=6]

Two views of both species taken today, on this cold drizzly day (was 78 F and sunny yesterday ;D).  On the left is E. qingchenganense (with grandiflorum 'Circe" behind), with qingchenganense emerging much later than fargesii, only showing new shoots a couple days ago, whereas E. fargesii has been in flower for about 2 weeks now.
[attachthumb=7] [attachthumb=8]


On NARGS Forum, Gerrit posted an excellent closeup photo of E. fargesii 'Pink Constellation', here are the links to compare:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=943.0;attach=30983;image
Topic link:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=943.msg16779#msg16779
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 22, 2012, 03:30:30 PM
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Mugawa Gen Pan' (I wonder what that name means: YT? Tetsuo?)

Wim, that must be E. grandiflorum var. thunbergianum '武川源平 = Mukawa (Mugawa) Genpei'.
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~yamakusa/ika-005.jpg

Thanks YT! I'll change the label! Does that name mean anything specific or is it just a description?

Aha, the dangers of name corruptions, worn-label-transcriptions, and citation misapplication turning into phantom cultivars ;)  Thankfully YT can help us track down such naming puzzles :D

Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: YT on April 22, 2012, 04:41:36 PM
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Mugawa Gen Pan' (I wonder what that name means: YT? Tetsuo?)
Wim, that must be E. grandiflorum var. thunbergianum '武川源平 = Mukawa (Mugawa) Genpei'.
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~yamakusa/ika-005.jpg
Thanks YT! I'll change the label! Does that name mean anything specific or is it just a description?

That's a good question. "Mukawa (Mugawa)" is a place name at north west of Kofu Basin, Yamanashi prefecture, Japan. Probably this bi-colour epimedium was found and collected there. "Genpei" is a colour combination for well contrasted red and white and the word came from two major samurai clans used their family colours about 800 years ago like as House of York and Lancaster.

Aha, the dangers of name corruptions, worn-label-transcriptions, and citation misapplication turning into phantom cultivars ;)  Thankfully YT can help us track down such naming puzzles :D

My pleasure, Mark :) Yes, such 'phantom cultivars' are big problems. This case is very lucky.
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 22, 2012, 05:06:26 PM
Thanks YT, fascinating to learn the history of these words and names.  Maybe you can comment on the following one.  I have uploaded 2 photos of Epimedium grandiflorum 'Bicolor Giant', introduced here in the USA by Darrell Probst, possible he is responsible for naming what was an unnamed variety. It is stated in the Garden Vision Epimediums nursery that this is "another giant red similar to 'Red Queen' and 'Orion', but with bi-colored bloom. Acquired from Gotumba Nursery, Japan in 1997 as a "pink grandiflorum".

Two photos of E. grandiflorum 'Bicolor Giant':
[attachthumb=1] [attachthumb=2]

To compare, here is E. grandiflorum 'Orion'.  Takes a few years to get established, but it is a beauty with high flower power.  It stands straight up, the tall stalks with leaves well above the flowers, with highly visible dense clusters of rich rose-red flowers.  Garden Vision Epimediums says about this one:  a giant "red" flowered Epimedium probably originating from central Honshu in Japan.  This cultivar was named by American nurseryman Dick Weaver.

[attachthumb=3] [attachthumb=4]


For comparison, here is a closeup flower view of E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen', probably the biggest of the grandiflorums, my plant over 36" (1 m) across x 30" tall, in full bloom now.

[attachthumb=5]
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 05:17:51 PM
Regarding E. fargesii and E. qingchenganense, I grow both and have photos to compare.  Certainly qingchenganense looks similar to fargesii, but there are some differences too, although as others have expressed, perhaps not enough differences to ultrimately maintain species status. I hadn't even thought about calling into doubt its species status, as it just seemed a finer plant than fargesii, even though fargesii-like.

Wonderful pictures, Mark. And there is a difference indeed....but I would give it a var. status instead of making it a complete new species

On NARGS Forum, Gerrit posted an excellent closeup photo of E. fargesii 'Pink Constellation', here are the links to compare:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=943.0;attach=30983;image
Topic link:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=943.msg16779#msg16779

Mikinori Ogisu's selection E. fargesii 'Pink Constellation' Og.93023 is a superb form!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 05:21:20 PM
That's a good question. "Mukawa (Mugawa)" is a place name at north west of Kofu Basin, Yamanashi prefecture, Japan. Probably this bi-colour epimedium was found and collected there. "Genpei" is a colour combination for well contrasted red and white and the word came from two major samurai clans used their family colours about 800 years ago like as House of York and Lancaster.

Thanks for the explanation, Tatsuo! Very interesting!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2012, 05:24:06 PM
Thanks YT, fascinating to learn the history of these words and names.  Maybe you can comment on the following one.  I have uploaded 2 photos of Epimedium grandiflorum 'Bicolor Giant', introduced here in the USA by Darrell Probst, possible he is responsible for naming what was an unnamed variety. It is stated in the Garden Vision Epimediums nursery that this is "another giant red similar to 'Red Queen' and 'Orion', but with bi-colored bloom. Acquired from Gotumba Nursery, Japan in 1997 as a "pink grandiflorum".

Two photos of E. grandiflorum 'Bicolor Giant':

To compare, here is E. grandiflorum 'Orion'.  Takes a few years to get established, but it is a beauty with high flower power.  It stands straight up, the tall stalks with leaves well above the flowers, with highly visible dense clusters of rich rose-red flowers.  Garden Vision Epimediums says about this one:  a giant "red" flowered Epimedium probably originating from central Honshu in Japan.  This cultivar was named by American nurseryman Dick Weaver.

For comparison, here is a closeup flower view of E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen', probably the biggest of the grandiflorums, my plant over 36" (1 m) across x 30" tall, in full bloom now.

All wonderful plants, Mark.

I've seen similar plants in Koen van Poucke's garden here in Belgium. Most of them were received from Japan without a name.

It will be very fun  ::) when different American and European breeders start naming these forms!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: Paul T on April 22, 2012, 11:40:41 PM
Mark,

Great pics.  Those dark grandiflorums are gorgeous!!
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 22, 2012, 11:43:50 PM
Thanks Paul, they're very photogenic "eppies". :D

For Emma, here are a couple views of small-flowered epimediums, namely a mature clump of Epimedium pubigerum and E. x setosum (hybrids between diphyllum and sempervirens).  Both have lots of flowers above the foliage that easily make up for their small size, and at least with E. pubigerum, it is among the most reliably evergreen species here.  Garden Vision Epimediums sells 4 different clones, I grow each of them, all are distinct and really good plants.

E. pubigerum - with clouds of little creamy flowers.
[attachthumb=1]

E. x setosum, which build low clumps of overlapping leaves, topped with charming white flowers.  Fall leaf color is excellent too.
[attachthumb=2]

E. pubigerum hybrid, with flowers more decidely yellow, the florets about twice the size (which isn't saying all that much).  I was pleased to discover first bloom on it a recently, a 2-year old seedling.
[attachthumb=3]
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: YT on May 03, 2012, 03:12:27 PM
Thanks YT, fascinating to learn the history of these words and names.  Maybe you can comment on the following one.  I have uploaded 2 photos of Epimedium grandiflorum 'Bicolor Giant', introduced here in the USA by Darrell Probst, possible he is responsible for naming what was an unnamed variety. It is stated in the Garden Vision Epimediums nursery that this is "another giant red similar to 'Red Queen' and 'Orion', but with bi-colored bloom. Acquired from Gotumba Nursery, Japan in 1997 as a "pink grandiflorum".

Two photos of E. grandiflorum 'Bicolor Giant':
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

To compare, here is E. grandiflorum 'Orion'.  Takes a few years to get established, but it is a beauty with high flower power.  It stands straight up, the tall stalks with leaves well above the flowers, with highly visible dense clusters of rich rose-red flowers.  Garden Vision Epimediums says about this one:  a giant "red" flowered Epimedium probably originating from central Honshu in Japan.  This cultivar was named by American nurseryman Dick Weaver.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)


For comparison, here is a closeup flower view of E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen', probably the biggest of the grandiflorums, my plant over 36" (1 m) across x 30" tall, in full bloom now.

(Attachment Link)

All wonderful plants, Mark.

I've seen similar plants in Koen van Poucke's garden here in Belgium. Most of them were received from Japan without a name.

It will be very fun  ::) when different American and European breeders start naming these forms!

Mark, sorry for my slow response. As Wim mentioned, your wonderful epimediums are perhaps propagated by seeds from named plants (so many good forms are selected from wild habitat) in Japan, and were given names at the American nursery. I'm only sure of "Gotumba Nursery" in your post is "Gotemba Nursery" ;)
Title: Re: Epimedium 2012
Post by: John Aipassa on June 29, 2012, 12:18:39 PM
Caught this little fellow with a fresh seed of Epimedium acuminatum "Night Mistress". How quick these ants are finding these seeds when it drops out of the pod.

It dragged the seed to its nest in the ground in my lawn. Will have to stop mowing when I see it germinating  ;D.
Title: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on March 27, 2015, 10:11:25 AM
I have gathered various Epimedium threads together here- to make a more cohesive record for the genus.
There are, of course, many other threads relating to specific Epimedium species, or queries - which you can find throughout  the forum - but here are the main Epimedium threads  for the last few years. 
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 28, 2015, 03:29:02 PM
Good idea to combine them, it was fun looking through them again.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on March 28, 2015, 03:43:14 PM
I thought they make a better resource together, McMark - more info on the genus that in some threads  ;)

Lots of other  small threads with individual queries or photos .... all there in the reach of the search facility, though.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: gerrit on June 20, 2015, 06:35:06 PM
Well, the last real post is from 2012.

I was thinking, the genus Epimedium needs some promotion.
As a belover of epimediums, i have collected more than a hundred species or cultivars. I selected 15 species, of which I think they are the best of the genus. A personal choice af course. My pictures will give you a personal view and may be controversial.
Please pay attention: Some photos will cause damage to your eyes. So, in that case, do not click the pic.

Number 15 is Epimedium x omeiense Stormcloud. The wild species, found on the mountain Omei, are unsurpassed.

[attachimg=1]




Next species: Epimedium dolichostemon, very showy, flowers like diving seagulls.


[attachimg=2]



Number 13: Epimedium grandiflorum 'Lilafee'.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: gerrit on June 20, 2015, 08:03:29 PM
Next 3.

Epimedium davidii. A very good choise. Vigorous and long flowering. Often a second time in summer.


[attachimg=1]


At 11, Koen van Poucke has made this very red one. Epimedium 'Red Maximum'.




[attachimg=2]



 
Number 10 Epimedium 'Amber Queen, everybody loves this one.


[attachimg=3]











Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: gerrit on June 21, 2015, 09:25:29 AM
No. 9 of my best 15, Epimedium x omeiense 'Akane'.


[attachimg=1]


On 8, Epimedium 'Spine Tingler'. with the very spiny long leaves. A stunning, very small plant, suitable for most rockgardens in the shade or on a north face of a hill


[attachimg=2]


The 7th best, the long flowering 3 tones Epimedium x 'Yokihi'.


[attachimg=3]


Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: gerrit on June 21, 2015, 09:48:29 AM
Next three,

6. Epimedium 'Queen Esta'.
5. Epimedium 'Dark Beauty'. Both controversial images, some like it, most people not.








 
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: gerrit on June 21, 2015, 10:01:42 AM
4 th position is for Epimedium wushanense 'Caramel'.


[attachimg=1]


3, the beautiful Epimedium fargesi 'Pink Constellation'.


[attachimg=2]


The second best, Epimedium wushanense 'Nova'. CC 014193, which means: Darell Probst collection number.


[attachimg=3]


Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: gerrit on June 21, 2015, 11:11:44 AM
The best one, in my eyes, Epimedium x 'Pink Champagne'. For many years only available in the US, but now it jumped over "the pond", Both, foliage and inflorescens, above the leaves, make it irresistible.



[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on September 15, 2015, 02:54:17 AM
Some bits on Epimedium seeds & germination. Last year I’ve been attentive and collected seeds of E. ‘Amber Queen’. E. lishihchenii and E. davidii ‘Wolong Dwarfs’.
Quite a rare moment to find the seeds just ready to roll out:
[attachimg=4]

I know the saying goes that they are self – incompatible, so I am expecting all of the seedlings will be hybrids. But this year, the only Epimedium in my garden was E.’Amber Queen’ and I collected more seeds. How about this? Could it be that the self-incompatibility may vary with the species? Or because ‘Amber Queen’ is a hybrid?

A few seedlings images:
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Some seeds were sown right away and few were kept dry and sowed in late September. Pots were kept in an unheated garage (but it gets quite cold, sometimes below 0˚C). Almost all fresh sown seeds started to germinate in February and were placed under lights; although very delicate at the beginning, once they form the first true leaf they grow quite vigorously.
I will post soon pictures of their beautiful parents  :)



Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on September 15, 2015, 09:18:15 PM
I'll try to do a better job with the images this time.
Epimedium lishihchenii, my favourite Chinese Epimedium.
[attach=1]
Epimedium davidii 'Wolong Dwarfs'
[attach=2]
Epimedium 'Amber Queen'
[attach=3]
Another one that had seeds - Epimedium stellulatum 'Long leaf form'
[attach=4]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: ChrisB on May 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
This epimedium is a volunteer, germinated itself in a pot of something else given to me long ago my the Smethursts.  Is it something different or a species perhaps, any info would be great.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 24, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
It looks very much like E. davidii Chris (scroll a bit up and you'll see an image I posted last year).
Images with the leaves would be useful, as well other info: height, evergreen?...to be sure on the ID.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: ChrisB on May 26, 2016, 04:33:07 PM
If it ever stops raining I'll go out and get pics of foliage, Gabriela.  It's only coming up now, flowers before foliage.  and I'll measure height, but it is a young plant from seed. Do they usually come true?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 27, 2016, 02:26:41 AM
I'll also take a picture with the young foliage; E. davidii is evergreen. My oldest davidii seedlings are two years old and no flowers; I don't know if it comes true. The foliage looks like but there were other Epimediums close by.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 28, 2016, 02:48:54 AM
One picture of today; even without flowers the foliage is very beautiful. The leaves are hairy on the back and this confirms the description from Stearn Epimedium monograph.
I wouldn't worry too much about the name though, they are all beautiful. It is very nice to scroll through the Epimedium thread  :) and there are other pictures with E. davidii.
(note: the one posted by Gerrrit as davidii shows an E. ecalcaratum)

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: ChrisB on May 28, 2016, 06:59:36 PM
Hi again Gabriela, you are quite right, it is E. davidii.  There were some for sale in the nursery t the Himalayan Garden I visited yesterday and the flowers were identical, so I think it must come true from seed.  My foliage is not quite out yet but I will check verso of the leaves for hairiness when they do.  Thanks for all your help!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: wooden shoe on June 15, 2016, 07:56:27 PM
I have seen a mouse, Apodemus sylvaticus, licking on the flowers. The flowers were not damaged, so it probably was only after the nectar. So mouses might even be pollinators for this family.
I never expected that.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on March 31, 2017, 07:23:07 PM
Epimedium 'Beni-Kujaku'
Epimedium 'Amanagowa'
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Purple Pixie'
Epimedium x versicolor 'Strawberry Blush'
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 06, 2017, 08:53:28 PM
Epimedium 'Hagoromo'
Epimedium davidii, spurless
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 06, 2017, 09:54:47 PM
Beautiful Epimediums Wim. I love them all, unfortunately not enough space/ shade to plant them all (if I would find to buy them first ;)

I have to challenge you on E. davidii - the plant you show is E. ecalcaratum. It may go around under the wrong name because it was already shown in this thread with the same/wrong name.
I answered last year to ChrisB about davidii - "(note: the one posted by Gerrrit as davidii shows an E. ecalcaratum)"
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on April 07, 2017, 02:33:16 PM
I cannot remember if we've mentioned this website before - but I've just been reminded about it by McMark.
Epimedium Info is a site run by Lars Ulsamer in Germany. Large gallery of photos of species and hybrids :
http://www.epimedium.info/ (http://www.epimedium.info/)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 07, 2017, 06:53:51 PM
I have to challenge you on E. davidii - the plant you show is E. ecalcaratum. It may go around under the wrong name because it was already shown in this thread with the same/wrong name.
I answered last year to ChrisB about davidii - "(note: the one posted by Gerrrit as davidii shows an E. ecalcaratum)"

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced. E. ecalcaratum has completely different shaped flowers and the leaves are different too. E. ecalcaratum has more campanulate flowers (especially when the flower ages, they open up more) This one stays box-shaped (like davidii). The shape of the leaf of ecalcaratum is more rounded than the one on this plant, and the veins in the leaves of ecalcaratum are more pronounced than the veins in my plant's leaves. And sometimes this plant does give spurred flowers in between the unspurred ones.

But...I have to agree that it does look like it is close to ecalcaratum too...so,

both ecalcaratum and davidii grow in the wild in Sichuan (I don't know if they grow in the same regions but they grow in the same conditions and in the same province) and I have to wonder, if they sometimes do hybridise....and if this might be a hybrid...my plant came from Gerrit, so maybe he can shed some more light on this. I don't know where his plant originated from. Maybe it is a garden hybrid?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 08, 2017, 01:09:35 AM
I cannot remember if we've mentioned this website before - but I've just been reminded about it by McMark.
Epimedium Info is a site run by Lars Ulsamer in Germany. Large gallery of photos of species and hybrids :
http://www.epimedium.info/ (http://www.epimedium.info/)

A good website, didn't browsed all species but unfortunately he also shows for E. davidii EMR 4125 - an E. ecalcaratum. It must be that someone in the region sold this plant wrongly labeled and then was 'propagated' like that to others.
I took few pictures from Stearn Epimediums Monography to clarify this - E. davidii EMR 4125


Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 08, 2017, 01:18:16 AM
I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced. E. ecalcaratum has completely different shaped flowers and the leaves are different too. E. ecalcaratum has more campanulate flowers (especially when the flower ages, they open up more) This one stays box-shaped (like davidii). The shape of the leaf of ecalcaratum is more rounded than the one on this plant, and the veins in the leaves of ecalcaratum are more pronounced than the veins in my plant's leaves. And sometimes this plant does give spurred flowers in between the unspurred ones.

But...I have to agree that it does look like it is close to ecalcaratum too...so,

both ecalcaratum and davidii grow in the wild in Sichuan (I don't know if they grow in the same regions but they grow in the same conditions and in the same province) and I have to wonder, if they sometimes do hybridise....and if this might be a hybrid...my plant came from Gerrit, so maybe he can shed some more light on this. I don't know where his plant originated from. Maybe it is a garden hybrid?

I'm not trying to convince you Wim, just presenting facts ;) I cannot grow many of these Epimediums but that hasn't stopped me to read a lot about them.
Here is as well from Stearn Monography - E. ecalcaratum picture with flowers showing variability in the wild
[attach=1]

The description
[attach=2]

Also, I don't know if many are aware about the UK National collection of Epimedium - hold by Roger and Linda Hammond in Brentwood, Essex. They also have good pictures showing variations on E. ecalcaratum (please excuse few misspellings).
http://www.epimedium-collection.com/ecalceratum.html (http://www.epimedium-collection.com/ecalceratum.html)




Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 08, 2017, 07:15:10 AM
A good website, didn't browsed all species but unfortunately he also shows for E. davidii EMR 4125 - an E. ecalcaratum. It must be that someone in the region sold this plant wrongly labeled and then was 'propagated' like that to others.
I took few pictures from Stearn Epimediums Monography to clarify this - E. davidii EMR 4125

That's right, EMR4125 does have spurs...the form he's showing is not correct.

I'm not trying to convince you Wim, just presenting facts ;) I cannot grow many of these Epimediums but that hasn't stopped me to read a lot about them.
.........Here is as well from Stearn Monography - E. ecalcaratum picture with flowers showing variability in the wild
The description....... Also, I don't know if many are aware about the UK National collection of Epimedium - hold by Roger and Linda Hammond in Brentwood, Essex. They also have good pictures showing variations on E. ecalcaratum (please excuse few misspellings).
http://www.epimedium-collection.com/ecalceratum.html (http://www.epimedium-collection.com/ecalceratum.html)

Why can't you grow a lot of them? Does it get to cold where you live? Which ones do well over there?

You are starting to convince me (by facts :-) ). Maybe you are right about it being ecalcaratum...I've mailed a few of the "the Epimedium powers that be" in Europe (LOL) to ask them what they think. I do know the collecttion of the Hammonds, they have a beautiful collection.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 08, 2017, 02:35:08 PM
Why can't you grow a lot of them? Does it get to cold where you live? Which ones do well over there?

I don't have a very large garden Wim, and not enough shady places in it, so I have to be selective. When I moved I gave away some of the deciduous and kept the Chinese sp./evergreens because that's what interesting me, not just the flowers. Together with Helleborus and few others these Epimediums are among few plants that retain nice foliage in the winter.
Cold wise I think all would be fine but it's also the summer heat to consider, which can be awful here, so they really need a part-shaded location in the garden.

I will try and buy a few more species, meanwhile I am growing from seeds as much as I can from stellulatum, acuminatum, lishihchenii, 'Amber Queen' and davidii.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 12, 2017, 09:18:52 AM
I don't have a very large garden Wim, and not enough shady places in it, so I have to be selective. When I moved I gave away some of the deciduous and kept the Chinese sp./evergreens because that's what interesting me, not just the flowers. Together with Helleborus and few others these Epimediums are among few plants that retain nice foliage in the winter.
Cold wise I think all would be fine but it's also the summer heat to consider, which can be awful here, so they really need a part-shaded location in the garden.

I will try and buy a few more species, meanwhile I am growing from seeds as much as I can from stellulatum, acuminatum, lishihchenii, 'Amber Queen' and davidii.

Ah, I see...summer heat is not to their like indeed, same over here! When you move to a smaller garden you need to be very picky about what you take with you, don't really know what I would choose...  :-\

Here's some answers re: the davidii, both from people who have seen them in the wild:

Koen Van Poucke: The origin is important, if it didn't originate from seed in the wild, it might be a hybrid which originated in a garden. In nature Epi's are very variable too. You'd need to key this one out based on the other characteristics (leaf,...) too.

Marc Libert (Botanical Garden university of Ghent): Some people (amongst whom Darrell Probst) want to treat E davidi and E ecalcaratum as one species. There are more intermediary forms with semi-developed spurs. There are some other rearrangements in Epimedium, btw, see here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4432230/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4432230/)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 13, 2017, 12:29:14 AM
Wim,
Everyone agrees on the variability of Epimedium species/populations in the wild, and Mikinori Ogisu showed just that with the plate of E. ecalcaratum flowers.
Yours may be a hybrid, hard to tell, in any case shouldn't be called 'davidii spurless' - adds to the confusion.

That's a good article, thanks for showing. The Chinese botanists no doubt have full access to the many and various Epimedium populations (that is if the habitats have not been destroyed yet) and to herbaria specimens.
In the coming years probably there will be more names revisions/new ones. Unfortunately people/plant nurseries are always reluctant to change labels, so…

Re - wanting to treat davidii and ecalcaratum as a one species, I am afraid they would need to come out with outstanding arguments for it - a  revision of the spurless Epimediums from Campanulatae group was published recently (2017).
http://phytokeys.pensoft.net/articles.php?id=11640 (http://phytokeys.pensoft.net/articles.php?id=11640)


Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 13, 2017, 10:04:02 AM
Yours may be a hybrid, hard to tell, in any case shouldn't be called 'davidii spurless' - adds to the confusion.

Agreed, but it shouldn't be named ecalcaratum either... a number/description or a cultivar name would be of better use, but I'll leave that to Gerrit, who is the one who received it as such.

That's a good article, thanks for showing. The Chinese botanists no doubt have full access to the many and various Epimedium populations (that is if the habitats have not been destroyed yet) and to herbaria specimens.
In the coming years probably there will be more names revisions/new ones. Unfortunately people/plant nurseries are always reluctant to change labels, so…

I'd love to see the variability of the Epimediums in the wild in real life too...maybe one day

Re - wanting to treat davidii and ecalcaratum as a one species, I am afraid they would need to come out with outstanding arguments for it

I know, something like mixed wild populations where forms of both grow together...but we'll see. For me both species are different (in the way they grow, in their leaves, in theri roots, in how easy they grow in my garden,...).

a  revision of the spurless Epimediums from Campanulatae group was published recently (2017).
http://phytokeys.pensoft.net/articles.php?id=11640 (http://phytokeys.pensoft.net/articles.php?id=11640)

Thanks for sharing, very interesting
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 14, 2017, 10:42:37 AM
Epimedium grandiflorum 'Spring Wedding'
and one of the biggest flowering wild species (just a shame the flowers hide under the leaves): Epimedium macrosepalum
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 14, 2017, 10:47:08 AM
Many rock gardeners find Epimediums too big for the rock garden (and a lot of them are) but this very small form (which originated with Don Jacobs of Eco Select nurseries in the US) is great for the rock garden, very slow clumper and not taller than 5 cm when in flower, while the 2nd flush of leaves only gets to 15 cm.

Epimedium x youngianum 'Lilliputian'

And since I like some more colour I've been trying different hybridisations with it for a couple of years...the first 2 were flowering this year (not taller than 8 cm when in flower, but with quite big flowers (1 - 1.5 cm))
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 14, 2017, 02:44:17 PM
Great hybrids Wim! - I like more the second one. I've seen 'Liliputan', it is incredible small. If you have access to buy 'Lemon Zest' is a great little one as well.

I am very impatient for my first hybrid seedling which is just about to flower: 'mama'  lishihchenii, father - unknown :D
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 14, 2017, 04:01:45 PM
Great hybrids Wim! - I like more the second one. I've seen 'Liliputan', it is incredible small. If you have access to buy 'Lemon Zest' is a great little one as well.

I am very impatient for my first hybrid seedling which is just about to flower: 'mama'  lishihchenii, father - unknown :D

Thanks, Gabriela...I do have Lemon Zest, which is a very beautiful hybrid with ecalcaratum genes, but over here it grows up to 35 - 40 cm....most grandiflorums and x youngianums stay smaller.

Looking forward to seeing your hybrids...I love the young leaves of lishichenii.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 14, 2017, 05:54:16 PM
Forgot this one: newly named from Epimedium nursery (Belgium)...named by Daniëlle Monbaliu for her husband.

Epimedium 'Guy De Pauw'
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: gerrit on April 15, 2017, 01:36:18 PM
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.735 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.735)

The discussion/confusion started above. post 742

I just have forgotten to add the words "forma spurless". My plant is a vigorous typical growing davidii. But with not normal spurs. I like it because of it's aberration. I have contacted Koen van Poucke, the grower of the plant. Koen is a renowed grower of Epimediums. His material is beyond any doubt. I have sent him a picture, but he could not tell me what happened. So...who knows? But it is not E. ecalcaratum. As far as i know, Koen never have sold E. ecalcaratum. I should have bought it.

I named my plant: Epimedium davidii f. spurless. However, when you look at the picture attached, you see short spurs almost, no spurs, 2 spurs, 3 spurs, but not the normal spurs of a davidii, true to the kind. So i think it is a well choosen name.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 15, 2017, 03:54:05 PM
Maybe in the end it really is EMR4125 and it could be a very variable clone. I guess to be sure the easiest would just be to contact Martyn Rix himself...I'll see if I can get into contact!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 15, 2017, 07:51:00 PM
Forgot this one: newly named from Epimedium nursery (Belgium)...named by Daniëlle Monbaliu for her husband.
Epimedium 'Guy De Pauw'

Gorgeous Epimedium; I especially love this kind of foliage.

http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.735 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.735)

The discussion/confusion started above. post 742
I just have forgotten to add the words "forma spurless". My plant is a vigourous typical growing davidii. But with no normal spurs. I like it because of it's aberration. I have contacted Koen van Poucke, the grower of the plant. Koen is a renowed grower of Epimediums. His material is beyond any doubt. I have sent him a picture, but he could not tell me what happened. So...who knows? But it is not E. ecalcaratum. As far as i know, Koen never have sold E. ecalcaratum. I should have bought it.

I named my plant: Epimedium davidii f. spurless. However, when you look at the picture attached, you see short spurs almost, no spurs, 2 spurs, 3 spurs, but not the normal spurs of a davidii, true to the kind. So i think it is a well choosen name.

Gerrit - Observations about a plant name don’t mean to doubt the respectability of a plant nursery/owner. Species can be introduced in cultivation under a ‘wrong’ name, mistakes happen, plus the natural variability is always a factor.

Now that you posted a better image of the Epimedium in question (whatever it may be, a species or hybrid ) anyone can see that it has a lot of spurred flowers –  personally I don’t understand but if you like to call it ‘spurless’ of course it is your choice.
I maintain the opinion that it adds to confusion regarding E. davidii as described to the present day.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 20, 2017, 02:20:12 PM
Hello fellow epi fans, been intending on weighing in here, but been immersed in home renovations. Just a quick summary, more later:

1.  I agree with Gabriela, I believe E. davidii EMR 4125 (which has strong incurved well-developed spurs) is confused in horticultural commerce with ecalcaratum. I saw such confusion recently with plants labels as platypetalum which were instead ecalcaratum.

2. I do not agree that ecalcaratum and davidii are one and the same.  Nor do I think it is prudent to label a plant that has the traits of ecalcaratum (variably shaped to absent vestigial spurs) as E. davidii "forma spurless", this is inviting more confusion.

3. I will ask Darrell on his thoughts on this.

4. I will show a 2nd gen davidii hybrid that starts going nearly spurless and looking "ecalcaratum-esque".

5. Wim, I'd like to discuss your Liliputian results (looking good, but would like to see whole plant) :)

6.  Darrell stopped by and showed me a mystery Epimedium (yet another Chen Yi one) that is essentially a rhizomatous davidii look-alike with very narrow floral parts (long very slender spurs) with very long stolons, which he believes is probably an Epimedium sp. nova.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 20, 2017, 07:38:29 PM
Many rock gardeners find Epimediums too big for the rock garden (and a lot of them are) but this very small form (which originated with Don Jacobs of Eco Select nurseries in the US) is great for the rock garden, very slow clumper and not taller than 5 cm when in flower, while the 2nd flush of leaves only gets to 15 cm.

Epimedium x youngianum 'Lilliputian'

And since I like some more colour I've been trying different hybridisations with it for a couple of years...the first 2 were flowering this year (not taller than 8 cm when in flower, but with quite big flowers (1 - 1.5 cm))

Wim, I'm most interested in seeing whole plant views of your Alpha & Beta offspring from Liliputian, to see the plant habit and relative size of flowers to the plant.

As you know, I've been working with 'Liliputian' to breed for smaller epimediums. In the long run, I've only made a few selections because I find some traits to be variable year to year, looking for more reliable performers. My best selection so far stands out because of the following: extra compact small size, tiny leaflets, profuse flowers like a miniaturized pink grandiflorum sitting above the foliage. Probably will be tough to propagate as the rhizomes seems congested.

This is from 2010 seed on Liliputian (both OP and some hand pollination), selected in 2014 for further eval.

The last photo is at early flowering, my pointed finger for scale comparison with tiny leaflets.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 20, 2017, 07:51:55 PM
I don't yet have an official name for this yet, I just call it "mini pink grandi" referring to the small size and similarity to flower shape to grandiflorum. Here are two more views.  In the foreground middle is Hosta 'Sukey Sue', an unregistered hybrid from 40 years ago, my one and only, named for my wife... it's given enough bare ground for the leaves to fill, with smaller epimedium planted at the periphery. The "mini pink grandi' sure stands out.

In the second image, on the left is my very slow growing, extra spiny-leaved dwarf E. stellulatum hybrid (OP stellulatum seed), Darrell suggested that it might be a cross with wushananse "Spiny leaved form" or my guess of ilicifolium.  Mini pink grandi is in the background on the right.

Both will receive proper names.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 20, 2017, 08:42:28 PM
Back to davidii hybrids:

1. start with these two E. davidii EMR hybrids, on the right is one that looks like classic davidii, but is much better flowering (more prolific) than the EMR form. One the left is a typical result of davidii hybrids, vey small yellow and red or yellow and pink flowers, this one has pinkish-red sepals.

2. same two davidii hybrids in a previous year, the flower difference can be seen better here.

3. two hybrids that resulted from growing OP seed of the small-flowered yellow and pink davidii hybrid.  Wow, look at what shows up, on the left is a very nice davidii type hybrid but with enlarges white sepals (on the left), but on the right is what looks like E. campanulatum (however that species doesn't have spurs, not even rudimentary ones), but it has vestigial spurs, and not a full set of spur "bumps", sometimes just 1 vestigial spur. Looks more akin to ecalcaratum (although it's a species I do not have, I do have campanulatum).

4.  closer view of the 2nd gen davidii hybrid that's starting to look like ecalcaratum  :D

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2017, 08:04:52 AM
Hello fellow epi fans, been intending on weighing in here, but been immersed in home renovations. Just a quick summary, more later:

1.  I agree with Gabriela, I believe E. davidii EMR 4125 (which has strong incurved well-developed spurs) is confused in horticultural commerce with ecalcaratum. I saw such confusion recently with plants labels as platypetalum which were instead ecalcaratum.

It is possible that some people confuse EMR4125 with ecalcaratum but I cannot agree that this plant (which Gerrit and I have) is ecalcaratum. If anything, I would lean more to it being a hybrid (possibly with ecalcaratum genes or....) but it grows like davidii and some flowers have fully formed spurs like davidii (never seen an ecalcaratum with fully developed spurs). Like you said, the switch could very easily happen....a seedling next to EMR4125 being divided and added to a bacth of plants ready for sale is just what it takes. In leaf it would be impossible to see the difference between EMR4125 and this "spurless" form.

I can understand the confusion with platypetalum though...even the original description from 1991 of ecalcaratum states: "Proximum E. platypetalo K. Meyer, sed foliolis 3 vel 5, ovatis vel anguste ovatis, basi obliquis; foliis caulinis 2 vel 3, oppositis vel alternis differt" (Resembles E. platypetalum K Meyer, except that it has 3 to 5 basal leaves, which are ovate to narrowly ovate, with an assymetrical base; 2 to 3 cauline leaves, opposite or alternating.)

2. I do not agree that ecalcaratum and davidii are one and the same.  Nor do I think it is prudent to label a plant that has the traits of ecalcaratum (variably shaped to absent vestigial spurs) as E. davidii "forma spurless", this is inviting more confusion.

I would not say that ecalcaratum and davidii are the same either, it's just what Mark told me and I wonder what Darrell does really say about that. I have to agree that it is not a good idea to label this one as daviddi, spurless form, though! But it would be just as unprudent to call it ecalcarartum. I would go for a cultivarname. As you see in the description it says vestigial spurs, I've never seen ecalcaratum with fully developed spurs. The original description doesn't even mention spurs.

3. I will ask Darrell on his thoughts on this.

Please do!

4. I will show a 2nd gen davidii hybrid that starts going nearly spurless and looking "ecalcaratum-esque".

Cool!

5. Wim, I'd like to discuss your Liliputian results (looking good, but would like to see whole plant) :)

Will do, just let me make some pics today!

6.  Darrell stopped by and showed me a mystery Epimedium (yet another Chen Yi one) that is essentially a rhizomatous davidii look-alike with very narrow floral parts (long very slender spurs) with very long stolons, which he believes is probably an Epimedium sp. nova.

Interesting, I guess China's still full of undiscovered species...I'd love to go and have a look at a few in the wild in a couple of years!

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2017, 08:18:03 AM
Wim, I'm most interested in seeing whole plant views of your Alpha & Beta offspring from Liliputian, to see the plant habit and relative size of flowers to the plant.

As you know, I've been working with 'Liliputian' to breed for smaller epimediums. In the long run, I've only made a few selections because I find some traits to be variable year to year, looking for more reliable performers. My best selection so far stands out because of the following: extra compact small size, tiny leaflets, profuse flowers like a miniaturized pink grandiflorum sitting above the foliage. Probably will be tough to propagate as the rhizomes seems congested.

This is from 2010 seed on Liliputian (both OP and some hand pollination), selected in 2014 for further eval.

The last photo is at early flowering, my pointed finger for scale comparison with tiny leaflets.

I'll take some pics today, without the flowers, since they stopped flowering already. And since it is only their first year flowering, they won't be representative for the following years yet!

I find Lilliputian itself not to be very reliable either (some years it doesn't even flower over here). My selections are all hand pollinated and some seem to be very small too (but haven't flowered yet). I intend to cross them back with Lilliputian as pollen parent. I don't intend to name the ones I showed because I want to select only the best and I want "Big flowers, small plant, flowering well above the leaves, nice coloured, small leaves and very low second flush." Some of my plants seem to be developing a more open root-structure (unlike youngianum which is very congested and often hard to divide).

Your mini pink grandi is wonderfull, very floriferous and really tiny, just how I like it, like a small pink cloud in the garden.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2017, 08:20:40 AM
Back to davidii hybrids:

1. start with these two E. davidii EMR hybrids, on the right is one that looks like classic davidii, but is much better flowering (more prolific) than the EMR form. One the left is a typical result of davidii hybrids, vey small yellow and red or yellow and pink flowers, this one has pinkish-red sepals.

2. same two davidii hybrids in a previous year, the flower difference can be seen better here.

3. two hybrids that resulted from growing OP seed of the small-flowered yellow and pink davidii hybrid.  Wow, look at what shows up, on the left is a very nice davidii type hybrid but with enlarges white sepals (on the left), but on the right is what looks like E. campanulatum (however that species doesn't have spurs, not even rudimentary ones), but it has vestigial spurs, and not a full set of spur "bumps", sometimes just 1 vestigial spur. Looks more akin to ecalcaratum (although it's a species I do not have, I do have campanulatum).

4.  closer view of the 2nd gen davidii hybrid that's starting to look like ecalcaratum  :D

Nice hybrids, Mark! Love the one with white sepals especially!...I guess some of them hybridized with campanulatum.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
Let's have a look....

Alpha is a cross between Lilliputian as seed parent and E. grandiflorum 'Mizuhomaru' as pollen parent. 8 cm in tall in flower but 16 cm tall after the second flush. The only things I like are the flower colour and the colour of the young leaves. It grows too tall and flowers under the leaves, which is a big no-no for me. Will see what it does next year though.

Forgot to add, that the flowers, when just opening are a lot paler, they go darker as the flower gets older (after +/- 2 days)...see pic of young flowers attached.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2017, 03:35:09 PM
Beta is completely different, a cross between Lilliputian as seed parent and E. epsteinii as pollen parent, it's 2nd flush stays a lot lower, only 8 cm. It did flower above the leaves, I like the flower colour but I really dislike the pale (unhealthy looking) young leaves. My epsteinii (an Epi I once bought as Epimedium sp. from Chen Yi years ago) has such pale leaves too.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2017, 04:00:04 PM
Two other examples, which haven't flowered yet...2nd flush 9 cm tall, cross with lilliputian as seed-parent and E. grandiflorum 'Akagi Sakura' as pollen parent (gamma).
And one which is very similar to lilliputian, a cross with grandiflorum 'Mukawa Genpei' (delta)...not bigger than 3 cm...that's what Lilliputian does too (see picture). My Lilliputian comes with strings attached this year ;-) Last year it didn't want to flower, this year it has 9 flower stalks...

Saw two new ones with Daniëlle yesterday with which I'd like to try a cross, both from Graham Gough and quite small: Epimedium grandiflorum 'White Winkie' (very small for a grandiflorum and very floriferous) and Epimedium 'Prince Shrimp', very nice form too...
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 21, 2017, 11:19:44 PM
Let's have a look....

Alpha is a cross between Lilliputian as seed parent and E. grandiflorum 'Mizuhomaru' as pollen parent. 8 cm in tall in flower but 16 cm tall after the second flush. The only things I like are the flower colour and the colour of the young leaves. It grows too tall and flowers under the leaves, which is a big no-no for me. Will see what it does next year though.

Forgot to add, that the flowers, when just opening are a lot paler, they go darker as the flower gets older (after +/- 2 days)...see pic of young flowers attached.

Thanks Wim for the commentary on your crosses, you have clear hybridization objectives, and honest assessment of the resulting hybrid characteristics, both pros and cons.  How unusual that Alpha starts out light color then deepens with age, one would think it behaves the other way around. That's a cool trait.  I would not have occurred to me to use grandiflorum 'Mizuhomura', but perhaps to exploit the uniquely incurved spurs on that interesting cultivar. It's fascinating to see that your Alpha has indeed inherited the tightly incurved spurs. Too bad the flowers are nestled among the leaves.

By the way, I only added Mizuhomaru a couple years ago, but have a hybrid from several years previous that has strongly incurved spurs, not sure where the characteristic came from, I attach 3 photos.

Your Beta has really good flower form and color (influence of epsteinii is apparent), but I see what you're saying about the yellowish foliage color. Epimedium epsteinii does not have the will to flourish here, it barely survives, wish I knew how to please it, I'm thinking it might not be the most hardy of species.

I like that you're putting equal weight in your evaluation process on flowers and foliage, the foliage aspect is so important, your Gamma & Delta show this, thanks for showing the foliage. I do not know either of the grandiflorum cultivars you used, looked up 'Mukawa Genpei' and see that it has that strong pink-white contrast like 'Princess Susan' (I attribute the pollen parent in my liliputian "mini pink grandi" to 'Princess Susan', I use it a lot because it tends to rebloom and I like the flower colors).  I've not heard of 'White Winkie' and 'Prince Shrimp', will look them up. Unfortunate name choice with "White Winkie', google winky or winkies to see what I mean :-;

Three photos of a hybrid I selected in 2013 as at least pretty enough to get planted out in my garden, then I re-selected it in 2015 for it's floriferous character and the strong incurved spurs, then in 2016 decided it was good enough to name, because it is so dang floriferous.  Has nothing to do with Liliputian, just a side note from your mention of Mizuhomaru.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 21, 2017, 11:25:47 PM
And now for something completely different, this is from OP seed of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace'. It has these uniquely puckered oval leaves, dark chocolate color in spring, but still stands out when all green in summer because of the unique leaf shape and "leaf build". I made this selection last year, 2016, it will remain under evaluation for another couple years, and I may use it for further hybridization for better flowering. I have nicknamed it 'Chocolate Morsels'.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 21, 2017, 11:55:39 PM
When I initially started working with 'Liliputian', I single out some seedlings and planted them out to see how they express themselves growth-wise over several years.

1.  One in particular was outrageously floriferous, but it doesn't flower as prolifically every year, thus not to be named.

2.  Image #2 shows an area planted with selected Liliputian progeny, notice the dark color leaves on one of them, and the ultra floriferous one compared to others.

3.  Image #3 shows one that I like (but not to be named), with bronzed foliage in good leaf build, and perky white flowers well above the foliage, reminds me of youngianum 'Azusa' in general disposition.

4.  Epimedium x youngianum 'Liliputian'
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 22, 2017, 02:08:44 AM
Aha, I found my earlier photos when I first realized the "mini pink grandiflorum" was something rather different, I include two photos that really show the scale difference, the epimedium plants on either side have normal sized leaves.  From 2014.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2017, 09:08:49 PM
Thanks Wim for the commentary on your crosses, you have clear hybridization objectives, and honest assessment of the resulting hybrid characteristics, both pros and cons.  How unusual that Alpha starts out light color then deepens with age, one would think it behaves the other way around. That's a cool trait.  I would not have occurred to me to use grandiflorum 'Mizuhomura', but perhaps to exploit the uniquely incurved spurs on that interesting cultivar. It's fascinating to see that your Alpha has indeed inherited the tightly incurved spurs. Too bad the flowers are nestled among the leaves.

Yes, the change of colour in this way is interesting, like you said, one would expect it to be the other way round. It did retain some of the incurved spurs but not as distinct as in Mizuhomaru.
As for my objectives...I'll probably have the plant I really want in a few decades (maybe just in time for my retirement, LOL) and by that time someone else will probably have hybridized the perfect new cultivars. Oh well, it's great fun to do anyway!

By the way, I only added Mizuhomaru a couple years ago, but have a hybrid from several years previous that has strongly incurved spurs, not sure where the characteristic came from, I attach 3 photos.

That's a smart looking hybrid, very floriferous but a bit paler than Mizuhomaru and they spurs are a tad less incurved. I'd name that one! I've always wondered about the Japanese name of Mizuhomaru though...if I recall correctly, it could mean either 'Water Flame' (when Mizu Homaru) or 'Rice Circle' (when Mizuho Maru). Maybe one of our Japanese friends can shed some light on this?

Your Beta has really good flower form and color (influence of epsteinii is apparent), but I see what you're saying about the yellowish foliage color. Epimedium epsteinii does not have the will to flourish here, it barely survives, wish I knew how to please it, I'm thinking it might not be the most hardy of species.

E. epsteinii does quite well over here (but our winters aren't as harsh as yours), it does need some watering in summer though. I love the flowers (good size, good colour) and the height of the plant but it flowers among the too pale leaves and it makes a very loose clump.

I like that you're putting equal weight in your evaluation process on flowers and foliage, the foliage aspect is so important, your Gamma & Delta show this, thanks for showing the foliage. I do not know either of the grandiflorum cultivars you used, looked up 'Mukawa Genpei' and see that it has that strong pink-white contrast like 'Princess Susan' (I attribute the pollen parent in my liliputian "mini pink grandi" to 'Princess Susan', I use it a lot because it tends to rebloom and I like the flower colors).  I've not heard of 'White Winkie' and 'Prince Shrimp', will look them up. Unfortunate name choice with "White Winkie', google winky or winkies to see what I mean :-;

For me the foliage should be more important (it's what you see for 9/12 or 8/12 of the year, whereas you see the flowers for 1/12 of the year). Pics of Mukawa Genpei and Akagi (S)(Z)akura attached.
As for White Winkie and Prince Shrimp, you won't find them on the net yet, since they are brand new. I'll try to take some pics of them next week. I googled winky and I LOLed a bit, especially since the first link on the Belgian (Dutch/Flemish speaking) google was to a children's nursery in The Netherlands called "Winkies"...I guess they didn't look up the English meaning of the word....or they did  :-\ . 'White Winkie" was named by a native speaker though, but I guess it's Graham's (dare I say British ;D ) kind of humour...he named the other one 'Prince Shrimp' in response to Epimedium 'King Prawn' (by Julian Sutton from Desirable Plants)

Three photos of a hybrid I selected in 2013 as at least pretty enough to get planted out in my garden, then I re-selected it in 2015 for it's floriferous character and the strong incurved spurs, then in 2016 decided it was good enough to name, because it is so dang floriferous.  Has nothing to do with Liliputian, just a side note from your mention of Mizuhomaru.

Perfect, like I said above... the colour reminds me of Rose Quartz or Morganite
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2017, 09:16:11 PM
And now for something completely different, this is from OP seed of E. grandiflorum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace'. It has these uniquely puckered oval leaves, dark chocolate color in spring, but still stands out when all green in summer because of the unique leaf shape and "leaf build". I made this selection last year, 2016, it will remain under evaluation for another couple years, and I may use it for further hybridization for better flowering. I have nicknamed it 'Chocolate Morsels'.

That one I like, the contrast between the flowers and the leaves is great. And the leaves on themselves are great too, they have that rounded shield shape going. I don't grow chocolate lace and have never seen it in real life, but I looked it up and those leaves are yummy! But I like yours even more, the brown covers the leaves completely. I'd cross with your plant to get those dark leaves combined with darker yellow flowers; to create a chocolate and banana split.  ;D Love the nickname, btw.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2017, 09:22:06 PM
When I initially started working with 'Liliputian', I single out some seedlings and planted them out to see how they express themselves growth-wise over several years.

1.  One in particular was outrageously floriferous, but it doesn't flower as prolifically every year, thus not to be named.

2.  Image #2 shows an area planted with selected Liliputian progeny, notice the dark color leaves on one of them, and the ultra floriferous one compared to others.

3.  Image #3 shows one that I like (but not to be named), with bronzed foliage in good leaf build, and perky white flowers well above the foliage, reminds me of youngianum 'Azusa' in general disposition.

4.  Epimedium x youngianum 'Liliputian'

That very floriferous one is a noticeable aprovement, as is the bronze foliaged form (it does resemble Azusa a bit in the way it grows, indeed. Except for the whitish veins of course.)

I wouldn't name any of the three either...even though the improved floriferous form would tempt me a lot, but those two are very worthy of more hybridizing-work.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 22, 2017, 09:24:03 PM
Aha, I found my earlier photos when I first realized the "mini pink grandiflorum" was something rather different, I include two photos that really show the scale difference, the epimedium plants on either side have normal sized leaves.  From 2014.

I love this Pink Pygmy, name that one and export it to Europe  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 24, 2017, 02:33:51 AM
Mark - your hybrids are all very beautiful  :) I am partial to the little plants in general.
I am trying to increase my evergreens Epimediums but not doing any controlled crosses, just for fun and because they are so easy to grow from seeds.

My first to flower is a hybrid from OP E. davidii 'Wolong Dwarf' - not fully open but I don't have patience, very spidery and about 15 cm tall.
[attach=1]

It goes through a tremendous transformation from the flower buds - fully open flowers
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2017, 04:51:29 AM
Mark - your hybrids are all very beautiful  :) I am partial to the little plants in general.
I am trying to increase my evergreens Epimediums but not doing any controlled crosses, just for fun and because they are so easy to grow from seeds.

Thanks Gabriela, I like that you're growing Epimedium from seed "just for fun and because they are so easy to grow from seed"; exactly so!  Once one puts together a decent collection of species and cultivars, the fun is to make your own garden-worthy hybrids at little or no cost, for one's own enjoyment. Weed out the Frankenstein epimedium hybrids that have all the worst traits combined; in my 2017 season just starting now, I have a number of franken-eppies to get rid of, but occasionally one gets lucky with something special.

Your hybrid of E. davidii "Wolong Dwarfs" looks intriguing, I totally understand your excitement and anticipation of seeing first time bloom on new plants. My davidii "Wolong Dwarf" suffered terribly with drought several years ago, I moved it to try to save it, but summer of 2016 was a record-breaking drought and now in spring 2017 I see no signs of life from the small piece that I managed to keep going.  Show us your hybrid again at full bloom, whole plant included :-)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2017, 05:02:14 AM
I love this Pink Pygmy, name that one and export it to Europe  ;)  ;D

Thx, I will get this in the hands of a nursery person, so that it will eventually become available. Still thinking of a name.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2017, 05:26:55 AM
Re: 'Mizuhomaru" possible translation meaning, 'Rice Circle' (when Mizuho Maru) vs. 'Water Flame' (when Mizu Homaru), translation as 'Rice Circle' sounds the better bet, because the strongly incurved spurs create a circle.

You (Wim) wrote "E. epsteinii does quite well over here (but our winters aren't as harsh as yours), it does need some
watering in summer though."
That makes sense to me now, I had a good looking plant in 2010 & spring 2011, but the summer of 2011 was one of the worst droughts in 20 years, only one small piece survived, which persists to this day, but does not want to grow.

You (Wim) wrote "Pics of Mukawa Genpei and Akagi (S)(Z)akura attached."
Thanks: 'Akagi Zakura' looks really special, such deep & intense flower color. Seems that in Europe lots more access to Japanese cultivars than in the USA.

You (Wim) wrote "I don't grow chocolate lace and have never seen it in real life, but I looked it up and those leaves are yummy!"
The leaf show is indeed good, but like many Epimedium, it's short lived in spring. The flowers on E. grandiforum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace" are essentially hidden by the expanding foliage.  In my "Chocolate Morsels" nicknamed hybrid, at least some of the flowers are at equal height with the leaves, but still room for much improvement.  I post a few photos of Darrell Probst's Chocolate Lace':

Note: its been so long since active on the forum, forgotten how to add multiple open/close quotations of previous replies.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 24, 2017, 09:24:21 AM
Mark - your hybrids are all very beautiful  :) I am partial to the little plants in general.
I am trying to increase my evergreens Epimediums but not doing any controlled crosses, just for fun and because they are so easy to grow from seeds.

My first to flower is a hybrid from OP E. davidii 'Wolong Dwarf' - not fully open but I don't have patience, very spidery and about 15 cm tall.

It goes through a tremendous transformation from the flower buds - fully open flowers

Nice selection, Gabriela. Would be great to cross it with Lilliputian (since it's only 15 cm tall). I don't grow 'Wolong Dwarf' either, that one would be great for crossing too, I think.

Good of you to show the flowerbuds, they can be very beautiful too and yours is great.

My davidii "Wolong Dwarf" suffered terribly with drought several years ago, I moved it to try to save it, but summer of 2016 was a record-breaking drought and now in spring 2017 I see no signs of life from the small piece that I managed to keep going.

I read this form was found in a very wet environment, I can imagine it doesn't appreciate your dry summers, Mark!  :-\
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on April 24, 2017, 09:34:45 AM
Re: 'Mizuhomaru" possible translation meaning, 'Rice Circle' (when Mizuho Maru) vs. 'Water Flame' (when Mizu Homaru), translation as 'Rice Circle' sounds the better bet, because the strongly incurved spurs create a circle.

I'll ask one of my Japanese friends

That makes sense to me now, I had a good looking plant in 2010 & spring 2011, but the summer of 2011 was one of the worst droughts in 20 years, only one small piece survived, which persists to this day, but does not want to grow.

I almost killed it in the first year I had it growing here bc I didn't water it, now it's in a corner of the garden which gets watered every other day. Just noticed that it isn't as floriferous this year, I need to divide and replant the plant I think!

Thanks: 'Akagi Zakura' looks really special, such deep & intense flower color. Seems that in Europe lots more access to Japanese cultivars than in the USA.

A.Z. is a wild selection from Akagi mountain in Japan. It's a very intense pink/salmon coloured one. A few of our European plant addicts visit Japan regularly and do import quite a bit.

The leaf show is indeed good, but like many Epimedium, it's short lived in spring. The flowers on E. grandiforum f. flavescens 'Chocolate Lace" are essentially hidden by the expanding foliage.  In my "Chocolate Morsels" nicknamed hybrid, at least some of the flowers are at equal height with the leaves, but still room for much improvement.  I post a few photos of Darrell Probst's Chocolate Lace'

Thanks for the pics. I love the leaves (even though they loose their colour quickly) but I like your morsels better. Some more hybridising work with that one!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2017, 09:32:40 PM
I almost killed it in the first year I had it growing here bc I didn't water it, now it's in a corner of the garden which gets watered every other day. Just noticed that it isn't as floriferous this year, I need to divide and replant the plant I think!

Yes, I think dryness/drought is the problem here, although it's not every year, but 2011 and 2016 were record breaking for drought; I estimate I lost about two dozen plants from last year's extreme drought and my pitiful attempts to keep them alive with hand watering.

A.Z. is a wild selection from Akagi mountain in Japan. It's a very intense pink/salmon coloured one. A few of our European plant addicts visit Japan regularly and do import quite a bit.

Good to know about A.Z., the rich color is most appealing, would indeed be a good one for hybridizing with.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2017, 09:47:39 PM
Today it was a beautiful warm sunny day, and epimedium are popping open all over. I spent a good part of the day attending to the garden and all thing Epimedium, before the predicted 2" (5cm) of rain the next two days. There were enough flowers out to do some hybridizing, although the options are a bit restrictive due to limited varieties being in flower yet.  The most exciting part of course is seeing first bloom on seedlings, have some of those odd Frankenstein type hybrids, but then a couple very nice surprise. 

I've often used stellulatum and its hybrids as seed parent. Saw this one today for the first time, looks like classic stellulatum in basic flower shape but it's a nice pink color.

The second is a buff-orange color on a pinnatum ss. colchicum seedling, it flowered last year but I had forgotten about it. Will single it out and see how it does in time.  Not earth shattering but a little different color. Had a heck of a time trying to get an in-focus photo.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 24, 2017, 09:54:34 PM
Getting first bloom on a batch of OP Epimedium ilicifolium, most are just in bud yet, but one had opened two flowers, surprised me as the bloom is nothing like ilicifolium, although they all have very prickly spiny leaf edges but seedlings with varying width leaves, almost none of them with leaves as narrow as ilicifolium.  The foliage in the first pic is last year's foliage which is fairly battered and winter-burned, I did not shear off the old foliage on these younger plants.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 25, 2017, 08:03:09 PM
Wow! I would love a pink stellulatum type Epimedium.
I have few young seedlings of OP stellulatum but non-flowering. I will probably get few of those what you call Frankestein hybrids :)) from OP of E. 'Amber Queen', they should start flowering soon (well, I can keep them just for the foliage - the advantage of the evergreens).
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 01, 2017, 09:27:26 AM
It's not every day, you can see yourself in flower  ;D Epimedium 'Wim Boens' (rhizomatosum x davidii). Was named 7 years ago by Daniëlle Monabaliou from "Epimedium nursery" in Belgium. Grows like and has roots like rhizomatosum but flowers like davidii.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on May 01, 2017, 01:06:42 PM
How lovely to see "you" looking so very well, Wim!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 01, 2017, 07:19:06 PM
A new selection by Koen Van Poucke...a very small but very floriferous plant with clouds of small white/yellow flowers, which can lighten up a corner of the shadegarden.

Epimedium 'Moonlight'
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 01, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
It's not every day, you can see yourself in flower  ;D Epimedium 'Wim Boens' (rhizomatosum x davidii). Was named 7 years ago by Daniëlle Monabaliou from "Epimedium nursery" in Belgium. Grows like and has roots like rhizomatosum but flowers like davidii.

Looking good Wim  8)

Here is my second davidii hybrid flowering. I don't know if someone will call it 'Gabriela' at some point :D It is very compact and the foliage is super nicely coloured, will see how long the colouration lasts.
[attachimg=1]

It was a bit unclear for me what was happening because in the fall I planted all 3 davidii seedlings in one place (no space for more pots). This is Hd1 which flowered first.
[attachimg=2]

This image explains it all (at the left Primula frondosa gives a hint about their size).
[attachimg=3]


Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 02, 2017, 10:31:51 AM
Here is my second davidii hybrid flowering. I don't know if someone will call it 'Gabriela' at some point :D It is very compact and the foliage is super nicely coloured, will see how long the colouration lasts.
It was a bit unclear for me what was happening because in the fall I planted all 3 davidii seedlings in one place (no space for more pots). This is Hd1 which flowered first.
This image explains it all (at the left Primula frondosa gives a hint about their size).

Nice hybrid, Gabriela...I do love the leaf colour!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 09, 2017, 03:29:45 AM
Been quiet on these pages.

Wim, I need to one day get your namesake Epimedium, have to have Wim Boens in my collection :)
Epimedium 'Moonlight' is very cute, love the yellow split cup and white sepals, rather unique. Someone needs to start some sort of name registry for Epimedium, otherwise duplicate names are bound to happen.

Gabriela, excellent foliage color on your davidii hybrid, making a bright show in the garden.

Well, spring finally took off here and Epimedium season is exploding, taking TOO MANY photos to even begin posting. Reviewing first bloom on young plants is exciting, and as weather permits I've been hybridizing for hours every day.  Recently did my annual Garden Vision Epimedium purchase, pickup, and display garden meander, Karen Perkins display gardens with innumerable groupings of Epimedium and other woodland plants looked like pure magic, at peak color and sheer loveliness, even in the rain.

Two of my Epimedium hybrids were dropped off with Karen, and based on size of plants and likely number of divisions, might be available for purchase spring 2018.

Revisiting my "pink mini-grandi", it's looking better than ever this year, uploaded here are 3 recent photos. Wim, been thinking about low growing Epimedium; do you grow 'Fire Dragon' (davidii x leptorrhizum) or 'Yachimata Hime'?  'Fire Dragon' now in its 3rd year is not very tall, maybe 4"-5", same with Yachimata Hime, the tiny leaflets on it stippled and very attractive.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 10, 2017, 07:18:19 PM
Wim, I need to one day get your namesake Epimedium, have to have Wim Boens in my collection :)

LOL, I can always send you one, just give the word. :)

Someone needs to start some sort of name registry for Epimedium, otherwise duplicate names are bound to happen.

Well, you'd need a website, a database program and a couple of people with access to add the new names (and some more data)....I volunteer to add names, maybe the Onion Man (who seems not so Allium-minded anymore, maybe "The Horny Goats Weed Man" would be better ;D ;D ) can make a program LOL

Two of my Epimedium hybrids were dropped off with Karen, and based on size of plants and likely number of divisions, might be available for purchase spring 2018.

Then they'll arrive here, accross the big pond in 2020 probably...for astronomical prices probably...oh well...patience.

Revisiting my "pink mini-grandi", it's looking better than ever this year, uploaded here are 3 recent photos. Wim, been thinking about low growing Epimedium; do you grow 'Fire Dragon' (davidii x leptorrhizum) or 'Yachimata Hime'?  'Fire Dragon' now in its 3rd year is not very tall, maybe 4"-5", same with Yachimata Hime, the tiny leaflets on it stippled and very attractive.

Your 'Pink Imp' does look GREAT, 10 for me please  ;)

I do know Fire Dragon, but I never really paid it much mind, it does grow to be 20/25 cm where I've seen it...it would be great for crossing indeed (if not for size, at least for flower colour), need to get one of those...I think Daniëlle has this one! I didn't know 'Yachimata Hime' (named for the Japanese Kami (goddess) of the crossroads, who protects travellers), but those stippled leaves do seem yummy...
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 16, 2017, 03:01:19 AM
...the Onion Man (who seems not so Allium-minded anymore, maybe "The Horny Goats Weed Man" would be better ;D ;D )

Haha, the "Horny Goats Weed Man", now there's a moniker to be proud of. But you're right, my long term enthusiasm for Allium has waned in favor of the amazing genetic plasticity of Epimedium. Maybe I should simplify my new moniker to merely "The Horny Gardener"? Oops, that's probably too short a name.

Your 'Pink Imp' does look GREAT, 10 for me please  ;)

Clever way of suggesting a name ;) As we've been discussing back and forth on Facebook, I'm still working on a name. The reason I'm taking a long time to decide is, I'm hoping to begin a series of similar selections, tuffet-shaped plants with tiny leaflets and flowers on top, but in various colors, so the "series" name has to be considered as well.

I do know Fire Dragon, but I never really paid it much mind, it does grow to be 20/25 cm where I've seen it...it would be great for crossing indeed (if not for size, at least for flower colour), need to get one of those...I think Daniëlle has this one! I didn't know 'Yachimata Hime' (named for the Japanese Kami (goddess) of the crossroads, who protects travellers), but those stippled leaves do seem yummy...

I measured plant sizes: Fire Dragon is 5"-6" here (in flower), my "mini-grandi" is 6"-7" in flower, and Yachimata Hime is 5"-6" in flower but leaves only 2"-3" high.  The extra tiny speckled leaflets on Yachimata Hime are indeed "yummy", I'm liking this little one a lot. I don't know it's ultimate size, I had rescued it from too dry a spot and replanted in this very good spot where it's been these last 2 years, perhaps it'll get a bit bigger.  I thought little of it when I first saw it, now I believe it to be rather special. Some recent photos of 'Yachimata Hime'. By the way, each flower has been manually pollinated, as far as possible under less-than-controlled situation.

I'm also really liking Fire Dragon, particularly how long lasting the flowers are, and how they are produced in cluster-knobs, rather than in more evenly spaces sprays. I will use a separate post to show 'Fire Dragon' plant and flowers.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 16, 2017, 03:22:44 AM
Some views of Epimedium 'Fire Dragon' (davidii x leptorrhizum) by Robin White
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 16, 2017, 03:27:37 AM
This view shows 3 epimedium planted together:  Epimedium 'Yachimata Hime (white), McMark's "pink mini grandi", and 'Fire Dragon' (pink and yellow), gives a sense of relative size to each other.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 16, 2017, 06:57:56 PM
This view shows 3 epimedium planted together:  Epimedium 'Yachimata Hime (white), McMark's "pink mini grandi", and 'Fire Dragon' (pink and yellow), gives a sense of relative size to each other.

All very nice, it shows again how lovely your 'pink mini grandi' is!
Here E. 'Tama-no-Genpei' is just starting, I just got back a division from a friend who hosted some of my plants and I am thrilled to see it flowering.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Rick R. on May 16, 2017, 10:35:13 PM
Like most epimediums, Yachimata Hime handles neglect quite well in my garden.
[attach=1]
(By the way, Mark, that is an Allium sacculiferum from your seed in the background.  Thanks so much!)

I bought "Fire Dragon" from a local nursery many years ago.  I was so taken by it that when it died unexpectedly after 6 years, I bought another mail order.  When it came, I realized what I originally had was not Fire Dragon at all.  It seems distinctive enough that someone might recognize it.  The flower sprays grow about 18 inches.  Any ideas?
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 17, 2017, 07:35:52 AM
Haha, the "Horny Goats Weed Man", now there's a moniker to be proud of. But you're right, my long term enthusiasm for Allium has waned in favor of the amazing genetic plasticity of Epimedium. Maybe I should simplify my new moniker to merely "The Horny Gardener"? Oops, that's probably too short a name.

I think that's been done already, and I know a lot of horny gardener's  ;D  :P

Clever way of suggesting a name ;) As we've been discussing back and forth on Facebook, I'm still working on a name. The reason I'm taking a long time to decide is, I'm hoping to begin a series of similar selections, tuffet-shaped plants with tiny leaflets and flowers on top, but in various colors, so the "series" name has to be considered as well.

So, something like 'Pink Imp', 'Yellow Gnome', 'Purple Sprite',.... or, since you're living in MA: 'Pink Nikommo', 'Yellow Moshup', 'Purple Pukwudgie',...

I measured plant sizes: Fire Dragon is 5"-6" here (in flower), my "mini-grandi" is 6"-7" in flower, and Yachimata Hime is 5"-6" in flower but leaves only 2"-3" high.  The extra tiny speckled leaflets on Yachimata Hime are indeed "yummy", I'm liking this little one a lot. I don't know it's ultimate size, I had rescued it from too dry a spot and replanted in this very good spot where it's been these last 2 years, perhaps it'll get a bit bigger.  I thought little of it when I first saw it, now I believe it to be rather special. Some recent photos of 'Yachimata Hime'. By the way, each flower has been manually pollinated, as far as possible under less-than-controlled situation.

Y-H looks interesting to cross with indeed.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Jon Evans on May 19, 2017, 11:32:14 AM
Rick
Your Epimedium which isn't Fire Dragon looks a lot like Robin White's Amber Queen, though there are similar amber coloured cultivars out there.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Rick R. on May 19, 2017, 03:08:00 PM
A strong candidate, Jon.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 22, 2017, 12:04:19 PM
With the help of two SRGC formnists, the Epimedium webshop of Daniëlle Monbaliu (Epimedium nursery in Belgium) is now online....mailorder to the entire EU: http://www.epimediumshop.be/en/35-epimedium (http://www.epimediumshop.be/en/35-epimedium)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on May 22, 2017, 12:44:40 PM
With the help of two SRGC forumists, the Epimedium webshop of Daniëlle Monbaliu (Epimedium nursery in Belgium) is now online....mailorder to the entire EU: http://www.epimediumshop.be/en/35-epimedium (http://www.epimediumshop.be/en/35-epimedium)

That's good to know!   Seems to have lots of  the set-up/ example  text on a lot of pages still?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 22, 2017, 02:38:43 PM
That's good to know!   Seems to have lots of  the set-up/ example  text on a lot of pages still?

Yes, it's a work in progress....but the catalogue is up-to-date!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 22, 2017, 07:38:12 PM
Epimedium 'Rik', named for Belgian Master-Plantsman Hendrik (Rik) Van Bogaert.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 27, 2017, 01:56:40 AM
Heya all, slow traffic here, I guess everyone is too busy in the garden (myself included).

Gabriela, fine photos of grandiflorum 'Tama no Genpei', love the elegant curve of the spurs on this one.

Rick, sorry that I've been neglecting the forums, glad to see you are having luck with Yachimata Hime, looking very good there with a fine Allium in the background ;) .

The orange one (the "not" Fire Dragon) is surely Amber Queen, a very popular cultivar.  I had two plants, placed on each side at the start of a garden path, but after its third year both died over winter...strange.  Have not replaced it yet.  There is another orange one named 'Bieke', but I don't think your plant is that.

Wim, we've been discussing in other social fora, but wanted to say, you're the Master of Names, some very interesting suggestions.  The 'Rik' hybrid has very deep color and saturation, I LIKE IT, would like to see what the plant looks like as a whole.

Our season has gone very quickly here, mostly cool and moist, but rudely interrupted with a 3-day heat wave with temps near mid-90s F (34C) which rather quickly advanced the season and put an end to lots of flowering. The later season ones are blooming now that cool wet weather is back. I'm really liking the results of Epimedium elongatum hybrids (both OP and manual crosses done several years ago). They have a general theme of much reduced flowers (although some are large flowered too), flowers held in tall spikes above the highly bronzed foliage (although gone green after the heat), with clouds of ascending yellow stars and amplified red sepals. Showing a few photos of a selected one that's making a solid plant in the garden, has many-flowered boxy spikes of little red & yellow ascending stars.  I'd like to name at least one of these out of dozens being trialed.  There are some that have tiny flowers that are extra hairy-webby, but I like the one below the best.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Rick R. on May 28, 2017, 12:30:42 PM
Thanks, Mark!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 28, 2017, 05:24:31 PM
Mark - very nice flower sprays on the OP elongatum!

You described very well the weather from southern Ontario :)
E. acuminatum flowered just at the time of a cold snap/heavy rains and it seems my hopes for seeds are gone. Would have been nice to get few others than yellow flowered hybrids.

On the other hand, the little hybrid I've shown produces seeds (I've seen a bumble bee going back and forth to lischichenii ). Also the only OP E. lischichenii I have and flowered has seeds and I will continue with it - the flowers are nothing spectacular but the leaves are extremely long and had a very nice mottling in the spring.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 28, 2017, 06:48:52 PM
Wim, we've been discussing in other social fora, but wanted to say, you're the Master of Names, some very interesting suggestions.  The 'Rik' hybrid has very deep color and saturation, I LIKE IT, would like to see what the plant looks like as a whole.

I'll post a pic as soon as I find the time...

Anyone here knows what the letters "CPC" stand for in certain Epimedium collections? Brachyrrhizum, davidii and epsteinii at least have been collected by the people who use that collection prefix.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on May 28, 2017, 07:15:30 PM
 According to the RHS list, Wim,  linked here:
http://www.srgc.net/foru/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919)
CPC  would  be 
Cobblewood Plant Collection

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 29, 2017, 05:22:15 AM
According to the RHS list, Wim,  linked here:
http://www.srgc.net/foru/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919 (http://www.srgc.net/foru/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919)
CPC  would  be 
Cobblewood Plant Collection

e.g. Darrell Probst
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 29, 2017, 09:08:32 AM
According to the RHS list, Wim,  linked here:
http://www.srgc.net/foru/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919 (http://www.srgc.net/foru/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919)
CPC  would  be 
Cobblewood Plant Collection

Thanks Maggi!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 29, 2017, 09:08:59 AM
e.g. Darrell Probst

So CPC evolved to Cc. over the years?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 29, 2017, 02:51:20 PM
According to the RHS list, Wim,  linked here:
http://www.srgc.net/foru/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919 (http://www.srgc.net/foru/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919)
CPC  would  be 
Cobblewood Plant Collection

Maggi, the link did not work for me, I spotted an unusual part of the link, "foru" vs "forum", guessed that maybe that's the reason, and sure enough then the link worked.  See if this version works:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5050.msg137919#msg137919)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 29, 2017, 02:59:09 PM
So CPC evolved to Cc. over the years?

Possibly so, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 29, 2017, 03:16:42 PM
Mark - very nice flower sprays on the OP elongatum!

On the other hand, the little hybrid I've shown produces seeds (I've seen a bumble bee going back and forth to lischichenii ). Also the only OP E. lischichenii I have and flowered has seeds and I will continue with it - the flowers are nothing spectacular but the leaves are extremely long and had a very nice mottling in the spring.

The leaves on your lishihchenii hybrid almost look like ilicifolium, long and slender, rather elegant. I was left with a bunch of lishihchenii self-sown seedlings when my main plant died after the drought of 2011, resulting in odd hybrids falling into two catagories of flowering. Some have sprays of flowers that look very similar to versicolor 'Sulphureum' (that species was growing right next to lishihchenii), and others have the more typical big arching spider flowers. All have the same big broad bullate (deep-vein textured) leaves that get very leathery and shiny. Darrell saw one of these those that resemble versicolor 'Sulphureum' and was taken aback, he too suggested it looked like 'Sulphureum' flowers. One of these has extra large foliage and very long sprays of bloom that sprawl around, it's a "FrankenEpimedium".  :P  Photos showing the two basic type hybrids and winter foliage.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 30, 2017, 09:35:35 AM
This is Rik in a pot.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 30, 2017, 06:24:00 PM
The leaves on your lishihchenii hybrid almost look like ilicifolium, long and slender, rather elegant. I was left with a bunch of lishihchenii self-sown seedlings when my main plant died after the drought of 2011, resulting in odd hybrids falling into two catagories of flowering. Some have sprays of flowers that look very similar to versicolor 'Sulphureum' (that species was growing right next to lishihchenii), and others have the more typical big arching spider flowers. All have the same big broad bullate (deep-vein textured) leaves that get very leathery and shiny. Darrell saw one of these those that resemble versicolor 'Sulphureum' and was taken aback, he too suggested it looked like 'Sulphureum' flowers. One of these has extra large foliage and very long sprays of bloom that sprawl around, it's a "FrankenEpimedium".  :P  Photos showing the two basic type hybrids and winter foliage.

That's very interesting to see the versicolor flowers on top of lishihchenii foliage; I maintain the opinion that the evergreen foliage makes them worth anyway (not to be named of course) and not in your case - you have too many beautiful ones.

My theory is that my OP lishihchenii shows genes from the wushanense - via E. Amber Queen. I always had them growing close by; they still are.
The flowers are not bad as well but as I said not spectacular. It also flowered very early, well in advance of both parents.
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 30, 2017, 08:13:33 PM
That's very interesting to see the versicolor flowers on top of lishihchenii foliage; I maintain the opinion that the evergreen foliage makes them worth anyway (not to be named of course) and not in your case - you have too many beautiful ones.

My theory is that my OP lishihchenii shows genes from the wushanense - via E. Amber Queen. I always had them growing close by; they still are.
The flowers are not bad as well but as I said not spectacular. It also flowered very early, well in advance of both parents.
(Attachment Link)

Attractive flowers on that "lish", as you say, many of these hybrids are fun things to keep and grow in the garden, not necessarily something to be named.

Follow-up on Epimedium 'Yachimata Hime', photo of the colorful 2nd flush of foliage. There's still one flower left, I dabbed pollen on it  ;D
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 30, 2017, 08:35:29 PM
I'm making new beds with lots of yellow species hybrids (ilicifolium, membranaceum, elongatum, and some davidii). This one is a membranaceum hybrid in bloom now, growing lower and wider than typical species, flowers about 1/2 size but very numerous. We'll see how far into the season it'll continue to bloom.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 31, 2017, 02:24:12 AM
This is Rik in a pot.

Ah Wim, I didn't see your photo of 'Rik' when I last posted, now that's different, what pudgy lantern-like flowers!  I like it!  Would be nice if it had more flowers, but it's definitely a standout for color and flower shape.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: WimB on May 31, 2017, 12:34:03 PM
Ah Wim, I didn't see your photo of 'Rik' when I last posted, now that's different, what pudgy lantern-like flowers!  I like it!  Would be nice if it had more flowers, but it's definitely a standout for color and flower shape.

It is very floriferous, Mark, but I only got mine this year, he was crammed in a way too small pot and is out of shape for this year, I'll show you next year.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 31, 2017, 03:52:28 PM
So much to process, many new epimedium to evaluate. I'm very pleased with the diversity of ilicifolium hybrids, they show lots of potential. 

The first two photos show a young plant dug out of a seedling patch (thereby it's been selected to plant out in the garden for further evaluation); has wide-open yellow "mouth" and incurved yellowish-to-white spurs and wide white sepals.

The next two photos show an upright growing sort, getting those flowers well above the foliage, again a white and yellow affair.  It has the more typical low-and-wide yellow spider type flowers, but with larger ascending white sepals.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: searchandmore on June 23, 2017, 11:37:15 AM
Epimedium are one of my favouritre perennial plants for their perfect ability to live in woodland/ shaded areas of the garden :)

http://www.ladybrooknursery.com/2017/04/epimediums-perfect-perennial-woodland-shade-garden/ (http://www.ladybrooknursery.com/2017/04/epimediums-perfect-perennial-woodland-shade-garden/)

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: David Nicholson on June 24, 2017, 07:38:26 PM
As a wholesale nursery it would seem you are of only limited interest to us? Still, if you are at least interested in advertising with us I will send you a copy of my "Notes for Advertisers" .
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on February 05, 2018, 03:01:29 PM
Two  sets of examples of  Epimediums from Olga Bondareva  from 2016 -  pictures that are works of art in themselves....

[attachimg=1]

1. Mislabled hybrid
2. E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum'
3. 'Beni-chidori'
4. E. alpinum
5. 3 forms of E. colchicum
6. 'Yokihi'
7. E. x yongianum 'Niveum'
8. E. pauciflorum
9. E. leptorrhizum
10. 'Enchantress'
11. E. pubescens
12. E. koreanum
13. E. x warleyense 'Orangekonigin'
14. E. chlorandrum
15. 'Pink Elf'
16. 'Amber Queen'
17. E. x rubrum
18. E. x cantabrigiense
19. 'Pink Champagne'
20. E. stellulatum
21. 'Rubinkrone'
22. E. brachyrrhizum
23. E. acuminatum
24. E. x perralchicum 'Frohnleiten'


[attachimg=2]

1. 'Red Maximum'
2. E. diphyllum dwarf white
3. E. flavum
4. 'Akane'
5. E. pubigerum
6. 'William Stearn'
7. E. macrosepalum
8. 'Korin'
9. 'Azusa'
10. 2 forms of E. colchicum'
11. E. lishihchenii
12. E. dolichostemon
13. E. 'Queen Esta'
14. E. setosum
15. E. x versicolor 'Cupreum'
16. 'Domino'
17. Lable is destroyed (Somewhat like 'Mugo Van Pen')
18. 'Stormcloude'
19. E. x rubrum 'Sweetheart'
Ranzania japonica is the  odd one out - lurking in the middle!

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Heinz Meyer on February 17, 2018, 05:35:11 AM
A nice overview of the different flowers of Epimedium, Maggy.
Here I also have a page about various epimedias.

http://epimedium.info/en/index.html (http://epimedium.info/en/index.html)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Carolyn on February 17, 2018, 09:32:47 AM
A nice overview of the different flowers of Epimedium, Maggy.
Here I also have a page about various epimedias.

http://epimedium.info/en/index.html (http://epimedium.info/en/index.html)
Super website - just had a quick look.  Lots of useful info and photos. Heinz, thank you for this!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on February 20, 2018, 08:58:31 PM
A nice overview of the different flowers of Epimedium, Maggy.
Here I also have a page about various epimedias.

http://epimedium.info/en/index.html (http://epimedium.info/en/index.html)

You have a beautiful Epimedium website Heinz. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on February 21, 2018, 05:06:33 PM
Video of a lecture by Olga Bondareva on Epimedium - and some companion plants

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ALO8zKCJL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ALO8zKCJL4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ALO8zKCJL4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ALO8zKCJL4)

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Heinz Meyer on February 23, 2018, 06:07:33 PM
You have a beautiful Epimedium website Heinz. Congratulations.

Many thanks Gabriela, but it is not my website
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on February 23, 2018, 06:35:21 PM


http://epimedium.info/en/index.html (http://epimedium.info/en/index.html)
  It is the website of  Lars Ulsamer
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on February 23, 2018, 09:19:58 PM
Ah, thanks Maggi :)
And Heinz, thanks for bringing it to attention.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Jacek on February 23, 2018, 11:09:59 PM
epimedium.info - very interesting.

Also very nice lecture of Olga Bondareva - I was not aware I understand Russian so well (we had obligatory Russian at school).

In case of evergreen epimediums - is it harmful to cut their leaves in November??
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on February 24, 2018, 04:54:26 PM

In case of evergreen epimediums - is it harmful to cut their leaves in November??

It wouldn't be harmful Jacek, but why do it? That's the main appeal of the evergreen species, at least for me - their foliage which keeps well throughout the winter, in most cases.
This year after extended periods of extreme cold without snow the foliage is completely destroyed in Ontario, same goes for hellebores, but it's not always the case.
I only cut the foliage in early spring before the flower stems start to elongate.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Jacek on February 24, 2018, 07:15:44 PM
It wouldn't be harmful Jacek, but why do it?

Well, why? Good question.

I do not have many epimediums, they grow mainly in my mind now. I lost quite a few during harsh winter a few years ago - they were newly planted. Moreover, I planted some in places that are too bad - too dark, too dry, just too bad.

So I can find two reasons for my silly question:

1. I have some epimediums growing together with early bulbs, so I would like to cut the leaves of epimediums early. Sometimes early means late (IE, in autumn).

2.I have an idee fixe of surface composting. And I do: first, I called a piece of my garden "a forest". There are old trees there and the bottom is covered with dense growth of Convallaria majalis, die this was a starting point 12 years ago when I moved here. This became both my compost "flat heap" and a woodland garden. For 12 years I have spread all leaves, small wood branches etc over this area - each year 20-25 cm fresh material - not chopped like Ian does. Plants have to cope with these strange conditions and only some do. So, after this long introduction - where are the epimediums?? They are not there, they would lose the competition with convallaria. I just wonder - if I had another new garden, without convallaria, would epimediums play its role? Would they survive covering each year with 20 cm of leaves? Including walnut leaves? This would destroy their leaves in November.

As you see, all those beautiful epimediums grow happily, but only in my mind now. Thank you for your answer.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Carolyn on February 24, 2018, 07:48:52 PM
I seem to remember a nurseryman telling me that some of the epimediums should NOT have their leaves cut off. I can't recall which ones he was referring to. Does anyone here know about this?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 24, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
I seem to remember a nurseryman telling me that some of the epimediums should NOT have their leaves cut off. I can't recall which ones he was referring to. Does anyone here know about this?

In my climate in New England (Massachusetts), with major difference between growing season and real hard winters with frozen ground for months, with or without snowcover (in 2015 we had 4 meters of snow in Jan-Feb), foliage on evergreen Epimedium isn't doing that much and can be cut off in autumn or winter without detriment to the perennating roots/rhizomes. For evergreen Epimediums, I typically do leave the foliage on, and see how they look in late winter/early spring, if all beaten up the foliage is sheared off. This year the evergreen ones are looking okay so far, a relatively mild Feb, and some of the more reliable evergreen ones (such as pubigerum, pinnatum ssp. colchicum, wushanense, ilicifolum) look like they might only need a judicious bit of leaf clean-up.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Jacek on February 24, 2018, 11:22:10 PM
Thank you for info.

4 meters of snow - I understand you ordered winter cover for your tender roses  ;)

We are much dryer, we never see a lot of snow on our lowlands.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on February 25, 2018, 01:28:01 AM
In my climate in New England (Massachusetts), with major difference between growing season and real hard winters with frozen ground for months, with or without snowcover (in 2015 we had 4 meters of snow in Jan-Feb), foliage on evergreen Epimedium isn't doing that much and can be cut off in autumn or winter without detriment to the perennating roots/rhizomes. For evergreen Epimediums, I typically do leave the foliage on, and see how they look in late winter/early spring, if all beaten up the foliage is sheared off. This year the evergreen ones are looking okay so far, a relatively mild Feb, and some of the more reliable evergreen ones (such as pubigerum, pinnatum ssp. colchicum, wushanense, ilicifolum) look like they might only need a judicious bit of leaf clean-up.

I do the same here; today I actually did some gardening for the first time this season! and I removed the foliage on stellulatum and lischichenii. I couldn't stand to see it so bad looking.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on February 25, 2018, 01:34:26 AM
Well, why? Good question.

I do not have many epimediums, they grow mainly in my mind now. I lost quite a few during harsh winter a few years ago - they were newly planted. Moreover, I planted some in places that are too bad - too dark, too dry, just too bad.

So I can find two reasons for my silly question:

1. I have some epimediums growing together with early bulbs, so I would like to cut the leaves of epimediums early. Sometimes early means late (IE, in autumn).

2.I have an idee fixe of surface composting. And I do: first, I called a piece of my garden "a forest". There are old trees there and the bottom is covered with dense growth of Convallaria majalis, die this was a starting point 12 years ago when I moved here. This became both my compost "flat heap" and a woodland garden. For 12 years I have spread all leaves, small wood branches etc over this area - each year 20-25 cm fresh material - not chopped like Ian does. Plants have to cope with these strange conditions and only some do. So, after this long introduction - where are the epimediums?? They are not there, they would lose the competition with convallaria. I just wonder - if I had another new garden, without convallaria, would epimediums play its role? Would they survive covering each year with 20 cm of leaves? Including walnut leaves? This would destroy their leaves in November.

As you see, all those beautiful epimediums grow happily, but only in my mind now. Thank you for your answer.

Jacek - you should have started with this first... I don't think the conditions you described are suited for the evergreens Epimedium spp. and not only because of the foliage.
But you could try a couple of the deciduous ones, or hybrids; they are more resistant to drought/ competition and their foliage would not pose a problem. Plus they are not as expensive as the evergreens so you won't feel bad if it doesn't work :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on February 28, 2018, 08:56:22 AM
In my garden wild hares eat evergreen Epimedium leaves in most winters. They even dig them from the snow if they are covered with snow. Epimediums don't seem to mind this, but these are the most common ones (E.x rubrum and 'Sulphureum').
This picture is from early January when there wasn't yet so much snow as right now. Hares ate the leaves but left the stems.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on February 28, 2018, 08:57:47 AM
One of the prettiest Epimedium I have, 'Arctic Wings'. This is deciduous.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Jacek on February 28, 2018, 02:47:33 PM
Leena, I don't invite hares to my garden so they don't come. ;D

Leena and Gabriela, thank you for suggestions, I will try.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 28, 2018, 07:59:02 PM
One of the prettiest Epimedium I have, 'Arctic Wings'. This is deciduous.

Leena, your lovely plant is Epimedium diphyllum, see these links to compare:
http://www.epimediums.com/e-diphyllum/ (http://www.epimediums.com/e-diphyllum/)

Arctic Wings' is a cross between latisepalum and ogisui, two evergreen species
https://www.plantdelights.com/products/epimedium-arctic-wings (https://www.plantdelights.com/products/epimedium-arctic-wings)

in the link below, scroll down to near the bottom
http://epimedium.info/en/a.html (http://epimedium.info/en/a.html)

http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumarcticwings/species.html (http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumarcticwings/species.html)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 03, 2018, 12:10:10 PM
Leena, your lovely plant is Epimedium diphyllum

Thank you! :) I hadn't even thought it was something else than what it was bought as, and I don't know enough about Epimediums. :-[
This plant has been hardy here over some very cold winters and also increased in size, so it is a good plant.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 05, 2018, 02:39:24 AM
Thank you! :) I hadn't even thought it was something else than what it was bought as, and I don't know enough about Epimediums. :-[
This plant has been hardy here over some very cold winters and also increased in size, so it is a good plant.

You're welcome Leena. I'm very fond of the small deciduous Epimedium, their delicate appearance belies their tough constitution and hardiness.

You might be interested in these two spontaneous hybrids that showed up in my garden, each is 3 year old. First two show a very small growing plant with TINY white florets and palest peach-yellow cups + 2nd flush of mottled evergreen foliage, I have no idea what it crossed with.  The second pair is more interesting, a small plant with clean white diphyllum flowers double-triple normal size, and mostly facing upwards. In the last photo with my hand holding a stem (to hold it still while strong winds blow), my thumbnail is 1.5cm across, the flowers are bigger than that. Fun little happenings in the Epimedium garden.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 05, 2018, 12:59:16 PM
Those are very nice looking plants,and a lovely foliage also.  :) I will have to try to see next summer if there are seeds in my E.diphyllum. After getting over feeling bad about having gotten a wrong plant, I am now pleased to have it, because it is such a nice plant anyway, and being species it might produce seeds. :)
I have to take pictures of my Epimediums this year and post them here to see if I have other plants with wrong names! Epimediums are not easy to buy in Finland (except a couple of the most common ones).
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 07, 2018, 12:50:54 AM
Leena, Epimediums are self-infertile, they need more than one clone of the same species, or any other Epimedium species or cultivar in close proximity, for seed to occur. In other words, if you get seed, the seedlings will be hybrids. Only way to get more of the true plant, species or cultivar, is to vegetatively divide the plant.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Véronique Macrelle on March 07, 2018, 06:26:29 AM
Mark,

your small spontaneous seedling with white flowers is remarkable!


last year, I was given 8 species of Epimedium. I'm watching them right now to watch for signs of new growth.
are they as easy to cultivate as hybrids?

Hybrids are never self-fertile either?


 I have this one without name, which comes from the garden of my mother, that could someone determine it?

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 07, 2018, 10:55:24 AM
Leena, Epimediums are self-infertile, they need more than one clone of the same species, or any other Epimedium species or cultivar in close proximity, for seed to occur. In other words, if you get seed, the seedlings will be hybrids.

Thank you again! :)
I have this Epimedium growing close to E.diphyllum. I have bought it as Epimedium 'Tama-No-Genpei', but looking now at the pictures in the internet I suspect this is also something else. What do you think?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 07, 2018, 11:09:41 AM
I have this one without name, which comes from the garden of my mother, that could someone determine it?

A guess, could it be Epimedium x rubrum?
Here is flower of my plant. It is very tough and easily available.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 07, 2018, 11:40:55 PM
Mark,

your small spontaneous seedling with white flowers is remarkable!

last year, I was given 8 species of Epimedium. I'm watching them right now to watch for signs of new growth.
are they as easy to cultivate as hybrids?

Hybrids are never self-fertile either?

 I have this one without name, which comes from the garden of my mother, that could someone determine it?

Veronique, I'm glad you like the white-flowered seedling, it might be a good stepping stone for further hybridizing due to its upward facing flowers and larger than normal flower size.

Most Epimedium species I've tried seem happy in the garden, although I've run into a few that seem reluctant to grow, such as hunanense and epsteinii, and a few that didn't survive our winters, but the majority are excellent garden plants.

I'm not sure about your question, if hybrids are never self-fertile, I will need to experiment to find out the answer. Interesting enough, some hybrids are sterile and do not make seed.

I agree with Leena that your plant looks like E. x rubrum.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 08, 2018, 12:01:51 AM
Thank you again! :)
I have this Epimedium growing close to E.diphyllum. I have bought it as Epimedium 'Tama-No-Genpei', but looking now at the pictures in the internet I suspect this is also something else. What do you think?

Leena, it looks like a diphyllum type hybrid, you are correct that it's not E. grandiflorum 'Tama No Genpei', here's a link to that cultivar on Garden Vision Epimediums web site.
http://www.epimediums.com/wp-content/uploads/catablog/fullsize/E.%20grand.%20Tama%20No%20Genpei2.jpg (http://www.epimediums.com/wp-content/uploads/catablog/fullsize/E.%20grand.%20Tama%20No%20Genpei2.jpg)

I have a hybrid of that cultivar, which has been released to Garden Vision, it's name is 'Mark's Star', a nickname that Wim Boens called my plant when I showed it here, an ultimately the name stuck. It might be available autumn 2018, but if not then definitely by spring 2019.

Some photos:
1.  E. grandiflorum 'Tama No Genpei' in my garden, ignore the Asarum canadense foliage in the foreground, that overly rambunctious ginger has been removed.

2 - 3  Epimedium 'Mark's Star' - has more of a clean white center, short and very floriferous, long slightly arched spurs that give the flowers a star-like appearance when viewed from above.

4.  Second leaf flush on E. 'Mark's Star', attractive red-banded heart-shape leaflets.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Véronique Macrelle on March 08, 2018, 06:00:46 AM
thank you both for having determined my Epimedium. it is always better to have a plant with a name. E. rubrum looks exactly.

since they do not self-pollinate, I now understand why it's so hard to find wild species! in addition, I imagine that it is always the same clones that we find in culture ...

and I am a little disappointed to know that I would not have seeds on mine.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 08, 2018, 10:14:11 AM
The real 'Tama No Genpei' looks really nice, and 'Mark's Star' is amazing, so much flowers! Congratulations!
I have now at least three Epimediums which are not what they were supposed to be when I bought them. I don't know if this is common or if I have just had bad luck:(
I haven't seen E.diphyllum for sale at least in Finland, is it typical that more expensive cultivars are replaced with it?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: kris on March 08, 2018, 05:40:49 PM
Mark E. grandiflorum 'Tama No Genpei is excellent! I hope I can grow it in Saskatoon since  some grandiflorum  hybrids are hardy here. The most hardy and easy one is  Epi x rubrum. Last year I lost all mine except this one.
Kris
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 10, 2018, 06:52:42 PM
I have now at least three Epimediums which are not what they were supposed to be when I bought them. I don't know if this is common or if I have just had bad luck:(
I haven't seen E.diphyllum for sale at least in Finland, is it typical that more expensive cultivars are replaced with it?

Leena - in our side of the world, many Epimediums are confused in the trades as well. It may be because when not in flower it is very hard, or better said almost impossible to distinguish between various species, not to mention hybrids.

The one you showed a picture looks like Epimedium x sasaki, sometimes written as E. 'Sasaki'.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 10, 2018, 06:56:41 PM
Mark - your seedling from E. Tama no Genpei, which is a beautiful cv. in itself, is really great!
I especially like the addition of the red banding of the second flush, reminds of E. Cherry Hearts.

I've read through the last posts here and re the hybrids being fertile I can say that Epimedium Amber Queen seems to be.
Short story long, about 3 years ago when I moved gardens, I had it for a while by itself in a pot and it formed seeds.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 11, 2018, 12:45:51 AM
Veronique: you mentioned getting 8 species of Epimedium last year. If they're planted in the garden in proximity to each other, and flowering at the same time with bees working the flowers, you should indeed get some seed.

Leena: hard to comment on your experience of misnamed Epimedium in Finland, other than what Gabriela mentioned, that misnamed plants can happen anywhere. Perhaps because Epimedium are so uncommon in the plant trade in Finland, as compared with let's say England and France, that Finish nursery people are less familiar with the genus to spot misidentified ones.

Kris: what is your Zone in Saskatoon? I would think that a reasonable number of Epimedium could be hardy for you, I would start by testing some of the following if they're available:  pubigerum, pinnatum ssp. colchicum, warleyense, versicolor 'Sulphureum', these are all tough as nails. On other varieties, not sure if your plants get enough moisture in summer & autumn, I have lost a good number of Epimedium here due to severe summer drought (201 & 2016), where plants enter winter in a weakened state then don't survive the winter.

Gabriela: I had 'Amber Queen' for two years, here they did not make viable seed that I recall. Both plants died over winter heading into the third year, I don't know why.  When you say your plants "formed seed", did it form visible seed pods, and if so, were the pods empty or have viable green seeds inside that look like a tiny lima bean?  I ask because sterile hybrids still go through the motion of producing pods, but they will be empty inside or have vestigial remnant start of non-viable seed.  I have to re-order this plant, both for the beautiful flower color and now to verify about the seeds.  :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 11, 2018, 12:55:28 AM
I have released a new Epimedium that's been submitted to Garden Vision Epimediums for production, it is named 'Short Story' (brachyrrhizum x grandiflorum).  This plant has abundant silvery pink flowers produced higher up and more visible in the plant, beautiful presentation among bronzed new growth. Once foliage expands the leaves go green with soft red mottling, makes a graceful well-shaped dome. After flowering the 2nd flush of foliage does not disappoint, it's strongly mottled bright red. Foliage lasts late into autumn season but ultimately it is deciduous. Both Epimedium 'Short Story' and 'Mark's Star' will be available spring 2019 (possibility limited availability autumn 2018).
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Véronique Macrelle on March 11, 2018, 07:15:39 AM

oh yes Mark, it's really very successful! remarkable !


I have spaced my different species, because I was hoping unhybridized seeds for list exchanges list but I understand that I must give up, unless I double my collection.

have you ever seen the giant epimedium, 150+ cm tall ?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on March 11, 2018, 11:55:47 AM
Congrats on these new intros, McMark - very fetching indeed.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 11, 2018, 03:11:51 PM
Thank you Veronique & Maggi :-)

Veronique: If your Epimedium plants set seed and you collect it, all such seed will be hybrids, not possible to collect unhybridized seed for seed exchanges.  To increase epimediums true-to-name, they need to be increased by vegetative division. Also, Epimedium seed is ephemeral, must be sown fresh (in the green), it cannot be allowed to dry.

I have "The Giant" epimedium, it only seems to attain great stature in a greenhouse, grown outside it's no taller than 60cm.
Two photos show Epimedium "The Giant":
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 11, 2018, 08:06:48 PM

Gabriela: I had 'Amber Queen' for two years, here they did not make viable seed that I recall. Both plants died over winter heading into the third year, I don't know why.  When you say your plants "formed seed", did it form visible seed pods, and if so, were the pods empty or have viable green seeds inside that look like a tiny lima bean?  I ask because sterile hybrids still go through the motion of producing pods, but they will be empty inside or have vestigial remnant start of non-viable seed.  I have to re-order this plant, both for the beautiful flower color and now to verify about the seeds.  :)

My Amber Queen produces lots of seeds reliable Mark - you can have them next year, I'm serious. I will stop sowing it, have enough seedlings from it already.
I also sown the ones produces when growing alone, I should have first flowering this year, so we will see...

 Short Story is very beautiful, congratulations!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: kris on March 11, 2018, 09:37:12 PM
Quote
Kris: what is your Zone in Saskatoon? I would think that a reasonable number of Epimedium could be hardy for you, I would start by testing some of the following if they're available:  pubigerum, pinnatum ssp. colchicum, warleyense, versicolor 'Sulphureum', these are all tough as nails. On other varieties, not sure if your plants get enough moisture in summer & autumn, I have lost a good number of Epimedium here due to severe summer drought (201 & 2016), where plants enter winter in a weakened state then don't survive the winter.


Thanks Mark. Free spirit nursery sells some of them.I will try one or two this year.
Saskatoon is zone 3A. Last year was also an unusual one since lots of other plants also died.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: kris on March 11, 2018, 09:38:57 PM
Frazers thimble farm is another one selling lot of Epimediums. I will try that too.
Kris
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 12, 2018, 01:20:41 PM
Leena - in our side of the world, many Epimediums are confused in the trades as well. It may be because when not in flower it is very hard, or better said almost impossible to distinguish between various species, not to mention hybrids.
The one you showed a picture looks like Epimedium x sasaki, sometimes written as E. 'Sasaki'.

Gabriela, the flowers look a lot like 'Sasaki', but I think my plant is deciduous, I will confirm it when the snow melts down.

Yes, it seems many Epimediums are mixed up in trade. My false 'Arctic Wings' was bought from Netherlands, and I once bought 'Ellen Willmott' from Germany and it turned out to be E.alpinum, both false plants were from big well known nurseries.

Mark, your 'Short Story' is wonderful. So much flowers!! :)

About seeds from 'Amber Queen'. I got them from Gabriela  :), and they germinated well, but unfortunately mice to to them and ate all but one seedling. :( However, I got seeds also from a friend here in Finland from her 'Amber Queen' and also they have germinated well, and it looks like there is great variation between plants and their leaves. It will be interesting to see how they look like when they flower.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 12, 2018, 09:01:55 PM
Leena, thank you regarding 'Short Story', I'm very pleased with it. It was the only plant out of a batch of brachyrrhizum seedlings that was worthy, most all were for the dust bin, but this one was a champ.

Regarding 'Sasaki', not actually a cultivar, it's a latinized group name for natural hybrids in Japan between Epimedium setosum x sempervirens, and written Epimedium x sasakii.

What is called E. x setosum, it also a latinized group name for natural hybrids in Japan of E. diphyllum x sempervirens. 
Therefore it follows that:

x sasakii =  (setosum x sempervirens)
x sasakii = ([diphyllum x sempervirens]) x sempervirens

That's interesting about 'Amber Queen' seed, I must buy one or two replacement plants to get that nice orange color back into my Epimedium garden.

Last year I had first bloom on a batch of E. ilicifolium crosses (some open-pollinated + some manual crosses), got one that looks like it crossed with stellulatum, resulting in blooms with white inner sepals and an orange cup and spurs.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 18, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Leena - sorry you lost the seedlings from Amber Queen, there will be more seeds this year if needed ;)
Maybe we'll be able to also switch colours this season with seeds from Epimedium acuminatum :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 19, 2018, 01:32:25 PM
 :) :)
I will take pictures of how my other seedlings look later in the summer.
I also lost some Erythronium sibiricum seedlings at the same time,  seedlings were close to each other, but later I caught that hungry  mouse so there was no more damage.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 24, 2018, 09:35:43 PM
:) :)
I will take pictures of how my other seedlings look later in the summer.
I also lost some Erythronium sibiricum seedlings at the same time,  seedlings were close to each other, but later I caught that hungry  mouse so there was no more damage.

I've been trying to find this photo with an Amber Queen seedling flowering Leena and took me a while! Talking about having the folders organized  ::)
Regardless the flowers, which are nothing interesting, the foliage is beautiful, especially when grown with a lot of sun - the red flush might be a trait transmitted from E. wushanense.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 25, 2018, 07:03:56 PM
Gabriela, striking foliage on your seed-grown plant, I grow some epimediums just for the foliage, looks like a "keeper" to me.  :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 26, 2018, 11:03:08 AM
Gabriela, that is a wonderful foliage! Something to look forward to in seedlings. :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 29, 2018, 08:39:44 PM
Gabriela, striking foliage on your seed-grown plant, I grow some epimediums just for the foliage, looks like a "keeper" to me.  :)

Thanks; this one stays with me. I gave away a couple last year also with this kind of foliage. Most of Amber Queen seedlings were the same.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 29, 2018, 08:42:37 PM
Gabriela, that is a wonderful foliage! Something to look forward to in seedlings. :)

Thanks Leena, I have no merit, it is nature's work :)
I look fwd to see your seedlings. Depending on what Amber Queen crossed with in your friend's garden they will be different.
Mine that flowered were almost surely crossed with E. lischichenii.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 31, 2018, 09:01:18 PM
Opening the cold frames in early spring is a very exciting time; the Epimedium seedlings especially make me dream about how the new hybrids are going to look like :)
The second generation from OP E. lishihchenii; mother plant in the second image.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 15, 2018, 08:08:49 PM
Gabriela, exciting to see one's epimedium seedlings germinate, and mother lishihchenii is no slouch there, gorgeous foliage and nice flowers too.

Yesterday I noticed first epimedium germination, much later than normal because of our dismal cold spring, today breaks a record for this date (April 15) with daytime high temps at 29F, 3 degrees below freezing point, with a constant 20mph frigid wind.

I will try to remember to show some self-sown lishihchenii x versicolor 'Neosulphureum' hybrids, not all hybrids are meant to be, I call theme Frankenepimediums.  First I'm going to post something else.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 15, 2018, 08:14:24 PM
In 2010 I selected a seedling from youngianum 'Lilliputian' x manual crosses + some OP (open pollinated). The first photo shows a 4-year old plant, compare the tiny leaf and plant size to the "regular size" epimediums flanking it on either side. Second shows shows a profile view of this miniature. The next 3 photos jump a few years forward to see how the plant is filling out.  The motive behind making crosses with Lilliputian, is to expand the range of small rock-garden-sized epimedium.

Following this post will be another 5 images to show more detail.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 15, 2018, 08:25:52 PM
Continuing with my Lilliputian hybrid, jumping forward several years, and this is what I was hoping for, a very tiny leaf form epimedium that grows into a compact tuffet, with bright pink flowers sitting on top like icing on a cake. Flowers resemble E. grandiflorum form with longish spurs, all in miniature. No name yet, it will be introduced, I refer to it as my "mini grandi", working on a name now.

1. my "mini grandi" in the center, my one and only hybrid Hosta 'Sukey Sue', white E. 'Yachimata Hime' on the left, yellow and pink 'Fire Dragon' on the right (hybrid by Robin White), and my "dwarf spiny" (stellulatum hybrid) lower right.

2. "mini grandi" with hand for scale, to show how tiny the leaves are, flowers sit on top of the foliage  like icing on a cake.

3. top view showing the round tuffet-like plant shape

4. another angle showing the same four Epimediums, a better view of both 'Fire Dragon' and in lower left flowers and new foliage on my "dwarf spiny".

5. 'Yachimata Hime', a relatively recent dwarf white, a charming plant with flowers held a few inches above the banded and mottled little leaflets.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on April 15, 2018, 08:32:40 PM
Your "Baby Grand" does make a good shape, McMark.  Very neat.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Véronique Macrelle on April 16, 2018, 05:27:36 AM
oh yes ! a very nice selection
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 17, 2018, 12:56:17 AM
More mini Epimediums are in need for sure; the mini-grand is very compact, maybe 'Pink Frosting' as a name? :)

I know about the Frankenepimediums, I think you showed some before. I stay away of versicolor, and in general I keep with the evergreens. At least I get good foliage ;)
For the future I have a vision of an Epimedium with purple/yellow flowers, I may try to hand pollinate acuminatum with lischichenii this year if possible. All is possible with a bit of luck!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on April 17, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Mark, I love your Minigrandi!
Gabriela, your E.lischichenii has a great foliage. :)

I stay away of versicolor

Silly question, why not versicolor? Is it too big or does not flower well?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 17, 2018, 06:28:49 PM
Silly question, why not versicolor? Is it too big or does not flower well?

I didn't explain the reason Leena. E. x versicolor has nice varieties, and this time I wrote it correctly - it's a hybrid and knowing the parents I don't see it as giving good combinations, flower wise, with the Epimediums I have. It may be just my imagination at work  ::) but in general I think best to use strait species in combinations.

So, this is the reason; when I'll decide to stop sowing Epimedium seeds then for sure I will added to my garden; it's so very useful for dry areas under trees.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 17, 2018, 09:08:34 PM
Most E. x versicolor cultivars (grandiflorum x pinnatum ssp. colchicum) are sterile. I must verify this fact this year, particularly with versicolor 'Neosulphureum'. I have wondered about something, if an Epimedium is sterile and makes no viable seed, is the pollen also sterile, I've never heard a definitive response to this question.

I mentioned previously about my Frankenepimedium hybrids of lishihchenii with what I'm sure is pollen parent versicolor 'Neosulphureum', the seedlings were found around a dead lishihchenii plant (died over winter one year after being weakened by terrible drought summer of 2011). Some seedlings look similar to lishihchenii, and other are a dead-ringer for lishihchenii for foliage but with flowers like 'Neosulphureum' jammed on the plant.  I will show a few photos in a future post.

I do love E. x versicolor cultivars, not only are the flowers attractive and of unusual color in some of them, the spring foliage is outstanding, so is the autumn foliage, particularly with versicolor 'Versicolor' and 'Cupreum'.

The newest versicolor entries are Darrell Probst's 'Strawberry Blush' & 'Cherry Tart', a few photos:

1. Epimedium x versicolor 'Cherry Tart', a very bright looking plant. Not as vigorous as 'Strawberry Blush' and I lost 'Cherry Tart' to drought. I have since bought a replacement.

2-5  E. x versicolor 'Strawberry Blush', a vigorous plant that spreads, rich bronze spring foliage, broad overlapping sepals of palest yellow when viewed from above, underneath the sepals are faintly washed in pink stripes, has bright yellow "cup" and short deeper pink spurs.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Rick R. on April 17, 2018, 11:29:18 PM
I couldn't say about Epimedium, but there are lots of examples of Lilium hybrids that are sterile (not seed producing) but have fertile pollen, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 17, 2018, 11:44:10 PM
I couldn't say about Epimedium, but there are lots of examples of Lilium hybrids that are sterile (not seed producing) but have fertile pollen, and vice versa.

Thanks Rick, good to know that in theory it's possible, and verifiable examples exist in other genera. It would be interesting to do controlled experiments to validate the proposition with Epimedium.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 20, 2018, 09:42:47 PM
Thanks Rick, good to know that in theory it's possible, and verifiable examples exist in other genera. It would be interesting to do controlled experiments to validate the proposition with Epimedium.

You are the best person to do these experiments Mark. It would be good to know indeed if some have fertile pollen.

Regarding E. x versicolor, they are all indeed very beautiful. I had the chance to see D. Probst's 'Cherry Tart' and 'Strawberry Blush' in 'real life' quite a few years ago. I guess they are not that new...
The oldest E. x versicolor cv. 'Versicolor' and 'Cupreum' would be worth pictures shown as well. I regret I don't have any.
I find 'Cupreum' to be especially outstanding; I hope they will continued to be propagated.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 21, 2018, 12:27:43 AM
You are the best person to do these experiments Mark. It would be good to know indeed if some have fertile pollen.

Regarding E. x versicolor, they are all indeed very beautiful. I had the chance to see D. Probst's 'Cherry Tart' and 'Strawberry Blush' in 'real life' quite a few years ago. I guess they are not that new...
The oldest E. x versicolor cv. 'Versicolor' and 'Cupreum' would be worth pictures shown as well. I regret I don't have any.
I find 'Cupreum' to be especially outstanding; I hope they will continued to be propagated.

Gabriela, I have good photos of all the versicolor cultivars, I will post some.  I will also show a seedling I selected last year that was E. sempervirens 'Violet Queen' x pinnatum ssp. colchicum, it looks similar to versicolor 'Cupreum' (although I strictly speaking isn't the same cross as versicolor),  but much larger coppery pink flowers, very interesting. 

I probably should have called 'Cherry Tart' and 'Strawberry Blush' "new-ish" (1999 & 2004 respectively), compared to the mid 1800s for the much older cultivars.

I'm thinking I should be able to carry out some testing, build a small open wood frame, put window screen netting on it to keep bees out, and keep some potted control epimediums inside (all the same variety), then do crosses on each caged plant with pollen from an assigned sterile variety.  If seed even gets produced, that would indicate the efficacy of the pollen from a specific sterile plant.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 21, 2018, 03:42:17 PM


I'm thinking I should be able to carry out some testing, build a small open wood frame, put window screen netting on it to keep bees out, and keep some potted control epimediums inside (all the same variety), then do crosses on each caged plant with pollen from an assigned sterile variety.  If seed even gets produced, that would indicate the efficacy of the pollen from a specific sterile plant.
It sounds like a very good plan!

I have a question about hand pollination if you don't mind - I mentioned I got fixated to cross E. lischichenii with E. acuminatum, and I would like to use the lischi as mother plant because it sets
good seeds, plus acuminatum is a smaller plant.
Thing is I cannot figure out how to proceed with the isolation of the lischi flowers; the inflorescences are long and heavy with the flowers; it doesn't seem I could use the organza bags I use for collecting seeds.

Could you advise please how to go about this? This is how my lischi looks, I understand there may be various clones out there.
[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Carolyn on April 21, 2018, 03:57:05 PM
Gabriela,
Perhaps you could enclose the flower heads in a piece of light weight horticultural fleece, tied round the stem with soft twine?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 21, 2018, 04:08:22 PM
Gabriela,
Perhaps you could enclose the flower heads in a piece of light weight horticultural fleece, tied round the stem with soft twine?

Thanks Carolyn, the organza bags are even lighter than the light fleece and they came in bigger sizes as well.
Now that I keep looking at the picture it crossed my mind that I could cut the flower stems in half - is not that I can pollinate that many flowers anyway. Problem is I might need the last flowers from the top, lischi flowers a bit in advance of acuminatum.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 22, 2018, 02:41:23 AM
Some thoughts about hybridizing techniques, I'm casual with the approach

1. Depends on whether one wants to make 100% controlled crosses, or merely make a high enough percentage of successful crosses.

2. I find mid-to-late morning best time, pollen is opening but the bees haven't made much impact yet. I pick the flowers off plants I want as pollen parent, pinch back the sepals and petals to leave the stamens sticking out like a paint brush, and apply pollen on the seed parent flowers. Judging from my results, this works just fine, no bagging required unless I want to do a more scientific approach (such as my suggested experiment with pollen on sterile plants)

3. Gabriela, for your plant like your big beautiful lishihchenii, where you don't want to cross each and every flower, what I do is select a particular flowering stem, tag it with a piece of tape and only make crosses on that one flower stem, or two selected stems whatever the case may be.

4. I try to be consistent and as each new flower opens each day, keep up with the task and make crosses, easier now that I'm retired.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 22, 2018, 02:16:48 PM
Thank you very much Mark!

I need to try and control the crosses as much as possible because I don't have the space to raise too many seedlings to see the results.

I'll have to see how the flowering goes this year. I may have to use acuminatum as a mother plant, lischi would provide more pollen flowers for sure. They both have extruding anthers so the task is not very difficult in this regard.
These are the only Epi seeds that I am interested in this season so I'll be concentrating on the task :)
I'll keep you posted and thanks again.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Rick R. on April 23, 2018, 02:44:57 AM
With some (many, most?) genera, a cross of A x B versus B x A usually yield different results.  With Lilium, the pollen donor tends to contribute more of the floral characteristics, while the pod parent tends to contribute more to the progeny's overall plant structure.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 24, 2018, 01:13:14 AM
With some (many, most?) genera, a cross of A x B versus B x A usually yield different results.  With Lilium, the pollen donor tends to contribute more of the floral characteristics, while the pod parent tends to contribute more to the progeny's overall plant structure.

That's a good point Rick. For sure the 'Epimedium man' :D  can go into more specifics about this.

I'm looking more after flower colours combinations; in any case I'll try to cross both ways.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on April 28, 2018, 05:53:38 PM
Lovely hybrid shown by Wim Boens -

"Epimedium 3, x youngianum 'Lilliputian' as seedparent and epsteinii as pollenparent, not as small (15 cm) as Lilliputian but very floriferous and a good clumper... will be named for my mother."

[attachimg=1]


What a charming compliment to Wim's Mother.  8)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on April 29, 2018, 02:23:23 PM
And what a beautiful 'mini epsteinii'. Congrats!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2018, 04:50:28 PM
Wim's 'Lilliputian' x epsteinii is a great looking plant, what a bold and beautiful cross it is.  The large epsteinii-like flowers over trim deciduous foliage on a compact plant is outstanding.  Wim & I were comparing notes on his several Lilliputian crosses, and mine, then on Facebook, and finally here, social media at work :) . Wim tells me this cross is closer to epsteinii size; in my opinion it breaks new ground and has all of the best attributes one could hope in this unique cross, congratulations once again Wim!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2018, 04:54:48 PM
With some (many, most?) genera, a cross of A x B versus B x A usually yield different results.  With Lilium, the pollen donor tends to contribute more of the floral characteristics, while the pod parent tends to contribute more to the progeny's overall plant structure.

Thanks for your insight on this topic Rick, most interesting.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 29, 2018, 07:56:51 PM
A "stepping stone" or "milestone" plant is this rather unassuming cross with 'Lilliputian' and sempervirens 'Vega', selected in 2012.  I ended up with a sempervirens-like semi-evergreen plant, with no second flush, it's the lowest epimedium I have, ultimately even lower than 'Lilliputian'. In autumn foliage turns blood red (last photo, Nov 14, 2014), similar coloring as sempervirens 'Vega'. It has typical little white flowers.  This plant should increase chance of more dwarf progeny. 

Seed from last year's manual crosses have germinated, and today while dodging rain showers I crossed all flowers with other interesting varieties (pretty much, whatever is available, not much in flower yet).  In the plastic flat are pollen parent possibilities, the four large yellow flowers are from lishihchenii hybrids (2 different ones, the yellow flower on the right has a bit more of a pronounced brown rim). Experimenting with getting more interesting flower colors and forms on a stable dwarf plant.

In the autumn foliage view, the few green leaves on the right edge are "Lilliputian" leaflets, about the same size as with the red autumn color dwarf sempervirens leaflets.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on May 13, 2018, 09:07:36 PM
Photo compilations  of epimedium  from Olga Bondareva - I thought I may have posted these before - but.... :-\

[attachimg=1]

1. Mislabled hybrid
2. E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum'
3. 'Beni-chidori'
4. E. alpinum
5. 3 forms of E. colchicum
6. 'Yokihi'
7. E. x yongianum 'Niveum'
8. E. pauciflorum
9. E. leptorrhizum
10. 'Enchantress'
11. E. pubescens
12. E. koreanum
13. E. x warleyense 'Orangekonigin'
14. E. chlorandrum
15. 'Pink Elf'
16. 'Amber Queen'
17. E. x rubrum
18. E. x cantabrigiense
19. 'Pink Champagne'
20. E. stellulatum
21. 'Rubinkrone'
22. E. brachyrrhizum
23. E. acuminatum
24. E. x perralchicum 'Frohnleiten'


[attachimg=2]

1. 'Red Maximum'
2. E. diphyllum dwarf white
3. E. flavum
4. 'Akane'
5. E. pubigerum
6. 'William Stearn'
7. E. macrosepalum
8. 'Korin'
9. 'Azusa'
10. 2 forms of E. colchicum'
11. E. lishihchenii
12. E. dolichostemon
13. E. 'Queen Esta'
14. E. setosum
15. E. x versicolor 'Cupreum'
16. 'Domino'
17. Lable is destroyed (Somewhat like 'Mugo Van Pen')
18. 'Stormcloude'
19. E. x rubrum 'Sweetheart'
Ranzania japonica as a naval.


 Oh my word - I did post them before!  http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.msg387577#msg387577 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.msg387577#msg387577)
 ::) 
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 14, 2018, 12:53:50 AM
Maggi, always worth a repeat viewing of these fine Epimedium flower montages, so well done, and they have value as an ID verification tool as well.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Véronique Macrelle on May 14, 2018, 08:24:38 AM
what a pretty picture of flowers of epimedium!

far from this expertise in Epimedium, I have my young foot of Epimedium menbranaceum which gratifies me of its first flowering.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on June 02, 2018, 07:35:32 AM
I got seeds also from a friend here in Finland from her 'Amber Queen' and also they have germinated well, and it looks like there is great variation between plants and their leaves. It will be interesting to see how they look like when they flower.

First of my ex 'Amber Queen' is flowering now. The other seedlings don't flower yet this year and they are smaller, this is a taller plant.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on June 03, 2018, 07:32:43 PM
what a pretty picture of flowers of epimedium!

far from this expertise in Epimedium, I have my young foot of Epimedium menbranaceum which gratifies me of its first flowering.

I'm partial to the spidery flowered Epimedium Véronique, this one is no exception :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on June 03, 2018, 07:35:00 PM
First of my ex 'Amber Queen' is flowering now. The other seedlings don't flower yet this year and they are smaller, this is a taller plant.

That's very nice Leena! It retained the amber cup from the 'Amber Queen', and I like the creamy/white flowers. Mine are all yellow and there are plenty of yellow flowered cv.
The foliage is also beautiful, your friend must have some long leaf, evergreen species around.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 12, 2019, 05:58:12 PM
I recently took pictures with the Epimedium seedlings resulted from the cross I mentioned in this thread last year.
Many thanks to Mark for advice on hybridising and to Rick for the idea to cross pollinate both ways.

I collected and shared with friends seeds from other Epimediums but for myself I concentrated only in this cross pollinations and sown just the obtained seeds.
I may not have been 100% successful but in any case it is exciting to look at these beautiful seedlings.

Epimedium lishihchenii x acuminatum
[attachimg=1]

Epimedium acuminatum x lischihchenii (I obtained far more seeds than ever from acuminatum, so pollination helped for sure)
[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on March 13, 2019, 08:25:46 AM
Gabriela, all seeds that I got from you have germinated well and are growing inside under lamps. The first ones started to show germination already in January in my root cellar. I took one pot inside then, the rest in the beginning of February when they were really going to germinate even in +2C. All are doing well. :) :) Thank you! I haven't pricked them out yet, because there isn't room inside, but I will do it in April when it is warm enough in the green house.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on March 13, 2019, 11:18:59 PM
Glad to hear about this Leena :)
They are so lovely to grow inside under lights, not fussy whatsoever! I also prick them out late from lack of space but they do fine.

Even outside I don't want to deal with many little pots so what I do is plant all seedlings of one variety together in a large rectangular container (used for window/balcony flowers). They grow well like this for 2 years.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on May 09, 2019, 07:40:14 AM
We have had quite cold early May this year, the past week it has been below zero in my garden almost every night. Coldest has been -5 in two nights and mostly -2-3C. I didn't think to protect Epimediums, and now noticed that their flower stems have suffered from cold and most of the flowers are gone. :( In the first picture is what I think frost damage. Next year I will remember that they are not so hardy.
Only one of my ex 'Amber Queen' seedlings flowers survived, and it is quite pretty.
'Orange Königin' and Epimedium x rubrum hasn't been affected by cold, they are flowering ok in spite of cold nights.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 12, 2019, 02:18:25 PM
We have had quite cold early May this year, the past week it has been below zero in my garden almost every night. Coldest has been -5 in two nights and mostly -2-3C. I didn't think to protect Epimediums, and now noticed that their flower stems have suffered from cold and most of the flowers are gone. :( In the first picture is what I think frost damage. Next year I will remember that they are not so hardy.
Only one of my ex 'Amber Queen' seedlings flowers survived, and it is quite pretty.
'Orange Königin' and Epimedium x rubrum hasn't been affected by cold, they are flowering ok in spite of cold nights.

Sorry to hear about this Leena  :'( It is disappointing not to see how the flowers look; but the one remaining is very pretty :)
The new growth, leaves and flowers stems are indeed very susceptible to below zero temp. and -5C is indeed a bit too much. It also depends in what stage they are, you've seen how 'thin' the new leaves are when emerging.

This is one reason I prefer a 'normal' spring, which starts slowly without pushing everything in growth.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: hamparstum on May 12, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
Thanks to climatic change it would seem that erratic spring or fall temperatures are going to be the normal... :'(
Hopefully I will still try Epimedium as a shade garden plant. It is thus very useful to see these particular last posts because it reminds me of the type of spring care they will need. One day I'll manage to get fresh seeds from you Gabriela. The necessary timing is at present too complex but one never has to lose hope in that respect.
Arturo
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 13, 2019, 07:56:51 PM
Thanks to climatic change it would seem that erratic spring or fall temperatures are going to be the normal... :'(
Hopefully I will still try Epimedium as a shade garden plant. It is thus very useful to see these particular last posts because it reminds me of the type of spring care they will need. One day I'll manage to get fresh seeds from you Gabriela. The necessary timing is at present too complex but one never has to lose hope in that respect.
Arturo

Hi Arturo, yes Epimediums are most beautiful shade plants with a specific charm.
If you are really interested and not fussy about the species I could send you few seeds (if any are set). You'll just have to remind me around mid June about it because
this year I am not looking to collect seeds for myself. I have too many seedlings on the roll already; neither I have the slight intention to ever sell seeds (for many reasons).
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on May 25, 2019, 08:36:37 AM
Right now is flowering E.versicolor 'Sulphureum' on the right, but what is the Epimedium on the left? I have gotten it in a plant swap with no name. It flowers later than 'Orange Königin'.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 28, 2019, 01:03:47 AM
It could be a seedling from an E. x warleyense clone Leena.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on May 28, 2019, 06:59:48 PM
Thanks Gabriela.  :)
It is a bit smaller than 'Orange Königin', but very nice and is spreading so it is doing well. :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 20, 2019, 04:45:28 PM
It could be a seedling from an E. x warleyense clone Leena.

In my experience, E. x warleyense is sterile (makes no seed).

Been sowing lots of Epimedium seed as they ripen, here's a flat of 'Ninja Stars' x manual crosses (mostly with acuminatum 'Night Mistress')
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: shelagh on June 20, 2019, 05:12:32 PM
I just spotted this posting and I can't believe it goes back to 2009 and I was posting on it then. I must be older than I think :D
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Véronique Macrelle on November 16, 2019, 11:46:20 AM
thank you Mark McDonough for this picture of seedling, I had never seen one;  ... it germinates easily?
they are very curious, these seedlings ...


Could you tell me at what time it is best to divide? or rather pick up shards around, to multiply an Epimedium (E. Orange Koninghii, it spreads well and I want little bits for the fairs to give  to my association).

is it possible now?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 03, 2020, 02:44:43 AM
thank you Mark McDonough for this picture of seedling, I had never seen one;  ... it germinates easily?
they are very curious, these seedlings ...

Could you tell me at what time it is best to divide? or rather pick up shards around, to multiply an Epimedium (E. Orange Koninghii, it spreads well and I want little bits for the fairs to give  to my association).

is it possible now?

Hello Veronique, I haven't been on forums for quite a number of weeks, sorry for late response to your inquiry.  Yes, Epimedium seed germinates easily, but one must follow some basic rules.  Seed is ephemeral, it must be sown soon after harvest and not allowed to dry out.  I sow seed within 2-3 days of harvest, storing the seed for those few days in plastic sandwich bags to keep them fresh. I sow on pressed fiber flats, cover the seed thinly, add a thin layer of spruce needles or composted bark much, then cover the flats with wire to protect against chipmunks and squirrels, the flats rest on the ground or layer of bark mulch, positioned in filtered shade. During hot and dry summer weather I sprinkle the flats every few days. They remain in contact with the ground all winter long, then typically germinate readily in spring.  Young seedlings are easy to handle and transplant readily. 

So far as best time to divide Epimedium, always best in spring when they are just emerging.  Late spring is okay too, but a bit tricky to untangle the stems and foliage, but I end up doing lots of division in late spring before hot weather arrives.

4 photos:
1. freshly germinated Epimedium seedlings, April 01, 2016
2. spring seedlings, May 09, 2011
3. hybrid seedlings in summer, July 01, 2012 - I try to get them planted by end of summer
4. individual seedlings separated out, being planted out later than I like, on Oct 19, 2016
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Véronique Macrelle on January 03, 2020, 07:17:11 AM
thank you Mark, it's very interesting

to get seed pods, do you pollinate manually or let the insects do it?

I know you have to cross 2 clones ... I can cross for example E. warleyense Orange Konigin with a wild E. warleyense? or any other species?
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on January 05, 2020, 11:38:14 PM
Véronique - if you go back on this thread at page 61 you will find the answer to your questions. It is always worth checking back.   http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.msg391670#msg391670 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3374.msg391670#msg391670)
Two years ago I also asked Mark how to do the controlled pollination.

You can let the insects do their job or follow Mark's advice.
What you cross is up to you, I think best to have in mind what traits you would like the hybrids to have.

Here's one happy result of insect pollination; a hybrid I showed before here but only gave it a name last year.
Epimedium 'New Horizons' showing the new foliage in May.
[attachimg=1]


Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on April 27, 2020, 04:32:00 PM
Mala Janes in Northumberland  wonders  if  we  can get  an ID  for this  Epimedium ....  perhaps HansJ or   McMark will see this and  give  an opinion?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: ChrisB on May 04, 2020, 06:35:46 PM
It’s a lovely one, and sadly I don’t grow it.  Will be watching for it’s name ...
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on May 05, 2020, 11:19:24 AM
Hans J. thinks it   is  likely  to  be Epimedium youngianum 'Roseum'
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on May 17, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
Last spring I lost many Epimedium flowers to late frosts, and even though this year I covered them with double fleece, I think some of the stems in bud are damaged.  :( Some are still coming up so I don't know for sure yet how many are damaged.
The coldest last week has been -3C with many nights -1C, so I am surprised how easily they get frost damage! Maybe ones which are later flowering (from Asiatic species) would be better in my climate (which ones would be later flowering?)
These are all my seedlings from 'Amber Queen', but one of them has showed good hardiness already last year, and this year it is also fine while many of it's siblings got damaged. Here it is this morning. :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 18, 2020, 08:33:25 PM
Last spring I lost many Epimedium flowers to late frosts, and even though this year I covered them with double fleece, I think some of the stems in bud are damaged.  :( Some are still coming up so I don't know for sure yet how many are damaged.
The coldest last week has been -3C with many nights -1C, so I am surprised how easily they get frost damage! Maybe ones which are later flowering (from Asiatic species) would be better in my climate (which ones would be later flowering?)
These are all my seedlings from 'Amber Queen', but one of them has showed good hardiness already last year, and this year it is also fine while many of it's siblings got damaged. Here it is this morning. :)

Sorry to hear Leena. I also have quite a few with damaged flower stems after few nights with -4C, even covered (but I used a very light fleece). Chinese species are the most sensitive and what I noticed is that the ones receiving too much sun in early spring are of course the worst damaged because they start growing too early. So, if you have the possibility to plant them under evergreen trees it would be better. (I already moved my E. acuminatum in a more shaded area)

The hybrids also did better, as a proof of hybrid vigor and maybe better adaptation to the local climate. From all hybrids there was one flowering in June last year and it is a promising trait. It is in tight bud right now, so it was not a chance happening.

I like the pink shade of your 'Amber Queen' hybrid :) I also have few hybrids flowering first time, a particular spider looking, cream colored I like.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on May 19, 2020, 06:06:47 PM
what I noticed is that the ones receiving too much sun in early spring are of course the worst damaged because they start growing too early. So, if you have the possibility to plant them under evergreen trees it would be better. (I already moved my E. acuminatum in a more shaded area)

Thanks Gabriela, I will have to think a place for the most tender ones. Not all buds are lost, I saw today some coming up. :)
Mine grow in quite shady place under an apple tree, which protects them a bit.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on May 21, 2020, 12:40:14 PM
Great photo by  Olga  Bondareva  of the  epimediums  in flower  in her  Russian garden yesterday.....

[attachimg=1]

1. Mislabled hybrid
2. E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum'
3. 'Beni-chidori'
4. E. alpinum
5. 3 forms of E. colchicum
6. 'Yokihi'
7. E. x youngianum 'Niveum'
8. E. pauciflorum
9. E. leptorrhizum
10. 'Enchantress'
11. E. pubescens
12. E. koreanum
13. E. x warleyense 'Orangekonigin'
14. E. chlorandrum
15. 'Pink Elf'
16. 'Amber Queen'
17. E. x rubrum
18. E. x cantabrigiense
19. 'Pink Champagne'
20. E. stellulatum
21. 'Rubinkrone'
22. E. brachyrrhizum
23. E. acuminatum
24. E. x perralchicum 'Frohnleiten'
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on May 27, 2020, 09:58:10 PM
Always nice collages with Epimedium flowers from Olga.

Thanks Gabriela, I will have to think a place for the most tender ones. Not all buds are lost, I saw today some coming up. :)
Mine grow in quite shady place under an apple tree, which protects them a bit.

I also noticed that some of mine are putting up new flower stems Leena, particularly acuminatum. I didn't think it would happen.
Because of the heat wave, the hybrid I mention to flower in June it is blooming. It cannot be blamed, with temp. above 30C!
There is more pink into the brown than the picture shows; I've started to think of a name :)
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on May 28, 2020, 07:03:00 PM
That is a very pretty Epimedium! :)
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on June 11, 2020, 06:47:55 AM
I have gotten this first plant as Epimedium x cantabrigiense. It is a bit smaller than E.alpinum, but flowers are very similar. It seems to be very drough tolerant like E.alpinum. It flowered in May.
The second picture is of a plant flowering now. There are two similar seedlings, both grown from 'Amber Queen' seeds. A friend from whom I got the seeds had also Epimedium platypetalum and I have been thinking that it must be a father to these seedlings. Flowers are small, and they haven't suffered from frosts because they come up later.

Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Gabriela on June 13, 2020, 02:23:29 AM
I have gotten this first plant as Epimedium x cantabrigiense. It is a bit smaller than E.alpinum, but flowers are very similar. It seems to be very drough tolerant like E.alpinum. It flowered in May.
The second picture is of a plant flowering now. There are two similar seedlings, both grown from 'Amber Queen' seeds. A friend from whom I got the seeds had also Epimedium platypetalum and I have been thinking that it must be a father to these seedlings. Flowers are small, and they haven't suffered from frosts because they come up later.

Any late flowering Epimedium sounds great Leena! I never saw E. platypetalum in real but have to say that your picture looks like the real species, considering the Epimedium monograph of Stern.
Maybe your friend also gather seeds from it without realizing? I know the saying with Epimedium being self incompatible but don't believe it entirely. Maybe some are but not all. One year I had Amber Queen setting seeds without no other Epimedium in sight and one young seedling that flowered recently is the clear image of E. lischichenii.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on June 13, 2020, 07:37:38 PM
Any late flowering Epimedium sounds great Leena! I never saw E. platypetalum in real but have to say that your picture looks like the real species, considering the Epimedium monograph of Stern.
Maybe your friend also gather seeds from it without realizing?

I have been thinking the same!  It looks like E.platypetalum in the book.
Unfortunately I have lost touch of the person from whom I got the seeds, so I can't ask her. All I know is that she said she collected the seeds from 'Amber Queen' and I also have a list of Epimediums she had at the time who can be the father.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Maggi Young on May 20, 2021, 06:23:10 PM
I thought this was posted in this thread  some  years ago, but  I couldn't  find  it  with the  list!   find  it! So here  we go  again !!  photos from Olga Bondareva

[attachimg=1]

1. Mislabled hybrid
2. E. x versicolor 'Sulphureum'
3. 'Beni-chidori'
4. E. alpinum
5. 3 forms of E. colchicum
6. 'Yokihi'
7. E. x yongianum 'Niveum'
8. E. pauciflorum
9. E. leptorrhizum
10. 'Enchantress'
11. E. pubescens
12. E. koreanum
13. E. x warleyense 'Orangekonigin'
14. E. chlorandrum
15. 'Pink Elf'
16. 'Amber Queen'
17. E. x rubrum
18. E. x cantabrigiense
19. 'Pink Champagne'
20. E. stellulatum
21. 'Rubinkrone'
22. E. brachyrrhizum
23. E. acuminatum
24. E. x perralchicum 'Frohnleiten'

[attachimg=2]

1. 'Red Maximum'
2. E. diphyllum dwarf white
3. E. flavum
4. 'Akane'
5. E. pubigerum
6. 'William Stearn'
7. E. macrosepalum
8. 'Korin'
9. 'Azusa'
10. 2 forms of E. colchicum'
11. E. lishihchenii
12. E. dolichostemon
13. E. 'Queen Esta'
14. E. setosum
15. E. x versicolor 'Cupreum'
16. 'Domino'
17. Lable is destroyed (Somewhat like 'Mugo Van Pen')
18. 'Stormcloude'
19. E. x rubrum 'Sweetheart'
Ranzania japonica as a navel.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: shelagh on May 22, 2021, 12:43:12 PM
FABULOUS.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on May 23, 2021, 08:23:37 AM
Thank you Maggi!

This Epimedium is one I have grown from seeds, and I like it a lot. It's foliage stayed good all winter and spring (which is unusual here), and I didn't even cut it down in early May when I saw flower stems starting to develop, because I thought that the foliage would protect them from frosty nights. I didn't protect them in any way so maybe the foliage did it, or they are hardy, because it is now flowering. The new foliage is nice colour, but the flowers are below it. Still, this is now one of my favourites!
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here
Post by: Leena on June 30, 2021, 07:40:13 AM
This spring there were many seed grown Epimediums flowering, I will post pictures of them later in the autumn when there is more time, but now I have to show this one.
All others have finished flowering, but this one still has flowers. It is ex 'Amber Queen' from Gabriela's seeds and seems to be a very long flowering kind:).
It grows in a difficult place to photograph, in the back of the bed, so I have to move more to the front so that flowers are easier to admire.
Title: Re: Epimedium - various threads gathered together here