Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: mark smyth on January 25, 2007, 10:43:48 PM
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I'm maybe jumping the gun a wee bit to create a new page. As someone said the last one is 14 pages
I'll kick it off with two yellows. plicatus 'Bill Clarke' and an un-named nivalis Sandersii Group
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Every garden should have the tall, scented lovely shaped 'S. Arnott'. No snobbery in my garden.
Also a new all green inner elwesii so far un-named. Currently no more than 3 inches
And two forms of elwesii 'Fred's Giant'
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Thanks for the new page, Mark. I've got two of these ones!
Your short elwesii is neat. The shorter ones are prone to getting very dirty from mudsplashes in bad weather if there isn't a good mulch on the ground, though.
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Which ones? 'Fred's'
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We have some Fred's Giant and Sam Arnott. I have a few other named ones, but since I can't tell any of them apart, I don't worry too much about who they are! Every now and I recognise a name you white fever sufferers are tossing about and think, I remember buying/ being given one of those, wonder where it is? Some of them do have labels stuck down deep beside them, but I can never find those when I look!
I got some lovely "wild" ones many years ago from a sheep-keeping-lady-doctor in Wales, they are known as the Welsh snowies. very few of our snowies are much above ground yet.
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This is the tiny elwesii again with measurements in inches and cm.
Also included is a lovely elwesii I named at the first snowdrop lunch I was invited to. For the perfectionists I got it wrong when I called it 'Pyramid' as three petals can only make a three sided shape. It takes a warm day to see it at it's best. If I have time tomorrow I'll pick one for some windowsil treatment
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Are they a delicate lilac shade, or was it the light (am I showing my ignorance of things snowdrop!) :-\
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nah, just poor light but there are some 'pink' and 'orange' tinted snowdrops about.
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I'm planning a trip to East Lambrook next month (I know you are "strutting you stuff" there sometime next month-and it's sold out!!) and I haven't been before. Will there be Cyclamen, Crocus etc as well as Snowdrops?
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Okay, so if a pyramid has four triangular sides what is a three-sided one called ?
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tryamid but googled it just now and see mention of a three sided pyramid
There should be Cyclamen down there but note sure about Crocus
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Are you doing a Crossword or is this a geometrical exercise? By the way it's raining here.
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David, Mark said "For the perfectionists I got it wrong when I called it 'Pyramid' as three petals can only make a three sided shape", so that's what started this.
By the way, don't believe this waffle about pink tinged, etc, it's all done with smoke and mirrors.
I can't tell you if it's raining here, it's nearly too blooming dark to see.
PS, unless I get a new dog, I don't DO exercise!
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I think we're talking Tetrahedron, if we're talking Pyramids, as building, but we've still got a puzzle for a good name for a 3-part flower, white or otherwise. And Trillium is already taken.
What is a Tetrahedron? I hear you ask:
[attach=1]
"A tetrahedron is a three-dimensional figure with four equilateral triangles. If you lift up three triangles (1), you get the tetrahedron in top view (2). Generally it is shown in perspective (3).
If you look at the word tetrahedron (tetrahedron means "with four planes"), you could call every pyramid with a triangle as the base a tetrahedron."
......so there!
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Mark,
The flower points of my Galanthus nivalis Sandersii Group are 2 cm tall.
I am pleased therefore about your photos. Thanks
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That's enough geometry. ;D
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lastly for today and maybe a couple of weeks. Off tomorrow but have to do two bat surveys, one on Sunday, 3 days in Scotland, home for one and a survey to do, Somerset for three days, back at work for four days, back to England to get a dose of the fever, back to work for four days and away to Scotland ...
This is very small Galanthus woronowii
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That's enough geometry. ;D
Hear, hear - this is a galanthus thread!!
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Mark,
Is the small size of the G. elwesii and G. woronowii due to the situation or conditions in which they grow? I had a G. 'Sophie North' which 'dwarfed' like this previously but reverted to normal stature after division and replanting in more favourable conditions. I would be interested in hearing of your experience with this phenomenon.
Enjoy your travels.
Paddy
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Paddy they are naturally short. The elwesii is supposed to be late. It was last year but definitely not this year. 'Curly' just poking through today.
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Be calm, Gentlemen... it was a WHITE pyramid!
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I was in Homebase today. They have 100s of pots of G. woronowii labelled as G. nivalis.
Someone was interested in elwesii 'Marjory Brown'. These are here leaves
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Marjory has such wonderful leaves, don't you think, Maggie?
Padddy
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Funny you should say that, Paddy, I was just thinking that very thought. :-\
I can report that I found a couple of different snowdrops out in the garden today. One was tall and thin the other was medium and fat. I love them both.
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Here is Galanthus fosteri flowering now, having been left outside in a pot.
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Here is Galanthus fosteri flowering now, having been left outside in a pot.
Nice form Anthony - here in the south, I grow my fosterii out in the garden - have had limited success in previous years but this year they have flowered well - must be because of the milder weather that we have had.
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The best fosteri I have seen are all growing outside. That's where mine will be in a few weeks
Here is an oddity. G. reginae-olgae 'Miss Adventure' where the spathe has become petaloid
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A few more snowdrops. If only it had been sunny today
G. rizehensis
G. 'Clare Blakeway-Phillips'
G. 'Alison Hilary'
G. affinis nivalis
G. nivalis 'Angelique'
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Is there somewhere in the old forum that Mark explains his set-up for taking such clear close-ups? I was going to post a picture, compared it to Mark's, and decided I had better take another one.
How can I search the old forum? I tried searching to find some pictures that I posted last year, but the search function on this new forum only works with new posts. I went to the old forum and couldn't see a search button, so just scrolled through the months until I found my pictures. If one wanted to find information and didn't know when (or whether) it had been posted, it would be a very long slog to find it.
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Hi Diane - I still find the old forum invaluable and search it often - the search is a button at the top of the page on the old forum.
You should post your picture anyway - Mark has had a lot of practice as he takes many thousands (and thousands) of pictures.
I look forward to seeing your photograph.
regards
John
[attach=1]
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Is there somewhere in the old forum that Mark explains his set-up for taking such clear close-ups? I was going to post a picture, compared it to Mark's, and decided I had better take another one.
How can I search the old forum? I tried searching to find some pictures that I posted last year, but the search function on this new forum only works with new posts. I went to the old forum and couldn't see a search button, so just scrolled through the months until I found my pictures. If one wanted to find information and didn't know when (or whether) it had been posted, it would be a very long slog to find it.
Hi Diane,
John has answered your second point. On you first point, and Lord knows I'm no expert as some of my recent posts will amply illustrate, Mark's undoubted expertise and experience have a lot to do with the quality of his photographs. Equally the type of camera and its facility for close up work have a lot to do with it. I am going to treat myself to a book "The A-Z of Creative Digital Photography" by Lee Frost. It will probably help me, it might help you too.
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hello all just back from an evening meal with ZZ
no real secrets but I can tell you there are many rubbish shots taken too. I nearly always take photos of Galanthus and Crocus with a plain background. Ian Y showed us last year in one of his bulb logs. The card I use is a very pale grey almost white. The camera doesnt 'see it'. My camera when set on macro can go in as close as 2cm. I dont use the macro like this. I set the camera on macro and then zoom in with the camera's telephoto function. That keeps me about 5 inches / 13 cm away from the subject. All are hand held. I usually take 3 shots. The camera is set on it's second highest setting. This allows me to crop the subject. Below are the original image reduced to 600 pixels wide and the same original cropped and saved to 600 pixels wide
I'll answer any other queries from the Young's tomorrow. Have to go pack. I knew I shouldnt have gone out
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It's good that people have faith in my photography skills. The upper photo is G. 'Atkinsii' form 'Lyn'. A big brute compared to 'Atkinsii'. I'll take a comparison shot on Thursday
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Ah yes, your last photos look familiar, Mark. The camera ignores the white flowers and decides that anything else in view is what it should focus on - the neighbour's garage, background ferns, anything but the snowdrops.
And you have suggested a good way to keep back far enough not to throw a camera (or photographer) shadow on the subject - I will experiment using "macro" plus "zoom" and background grey card.
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Diane,
If I may comment of taking photographs: I presume you are using a digital camera. In such a case the camera will do the focusing automatically, though this is not completely trustworthy as you will see from Mark's postings above the camera sometimes cannot 'see' a particular colour, for example the white of the snowdrop and in that case it will insist on focusing on something in the background. Or conversely, as Mark does, you can provide a background which the camera cannot 'see' and this forces it to focus on the flower.
Personally, I prefer to take the photographs in the garden but this has the problem of wind causing movement and consequently there is a difficulty in focusing again. Taking the flowers in situ is more natural I think but I see the advantages of taking them indoors or at least in shelter. If snowdrops are brought inside they will open after a while in the heat and this will allow a better photograph. In the garden it is often necessary to visit a flower over several days to capture it at its best. There will also be no wind indoors and so the flowers will stay steady and make it easier to focus. This indoor photography seems to have gained popularity for illustration purposes in particular and, I suppose, does show the flower without the distraction of the background if that is what you want.
Mark points out the practice of cropping your original photograph to select a closer view of the subject. As the specifications of cameras are constantly improving you will be able to crop without any loss of clarity or definition to the image.
Another benefit of the digital camera is that taking multiple images leads to no extra cost. I generally take many photographs of a flower and then when I view them on the computer later I discard most of them, keeping only those which are good enough. It is much easier to get into the habit of taking multiple photographs and discarding the unwanted ones later rather than having to return to the subject the next day perhaps. Some cameras allow 'bracketing' which means that the camera will save three images for each photograph taken, one at what it calculates to be the correct exposure, one underexposed and one overexposed. Regularly enough the underexposed image will be the one which best captures a white or yellow flower as these reflect light particularly strongle and can come out with a glare in normal settings.
The best thing about the digital camera is that your mistakes don't cost you anything. At one time I did a lot of B & W photography, processing and printing my own. In this situation one took care over a photograph, assessed the lighting and composition with great care so as not to be wasting film. Nowadays, especially with a good sized memory card, one can take as many photographs of a subject as one wishes and feel sure that at least one of them will be of good quality.
Keep trying and trying, take more and more photographs and you will become more accustomed to your camera and the results will improve.
Have fun, say cheese, Paddy
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There is a 3 day 'Sneeuwklokjesfeest' (Snowdrop Festival) being held at De Boschhoeve, Arnhem, Holland from 1st - 3rd March 2007 & full details can be found at http://www.boschhoeve.nl/
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Hello Maggi
What I am itching to know is if Mark brought his vase of snowdrops, and if so what did you score ;D
Mark I saw lots of elwesii labelled as nivalis in a garden centre (I stopped for lunch), picking over them I found one with four petals. Is this common or likely to be stable? Enjoy East Lambrook, I hear from one of my friends that you will be speaking there too.
Brian
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Let me scratch that itch for you, Brian! Mark did indeed bring his snowdrop. In spite of airport security giving him some close questioning he was able to convince them that the very small amount of water keeping the cut blooms fresh was unlikely to be acid, since the flowers were sitting happily in it and not frazzling, so he, and the flowers arrived safely. All the flowers were ones he showed us in his super talk so we were invited to identify them, having just seen the photos. Frankly, I hadn't a clue, but they were all lovely! Others present knew more than I, of course. It was a great evening, full of flowers and homour, surely the best method to ensure the retention of information that I know of!
Will get photo of Mark's fancy flower display gadget before he goes home. I now have a very select flower display of my own in an old ink pot- Mark gave me the blooms! And, John Finch, there is a WASP!
Much smaller than I expected and, in truth, not one I'd covet!! Sorry! It has a dainty charm but there was a bigger, chubby one I liked better. I'll have to go and check what its name is! It is "Ketton"
More later!
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Frankly, I hadn't a clue, but they were all lovely!
Oh but you are a showing your true colours Maggi, not SAGA at all ;)
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There you are Maggi, going all chubby on us again.
Paddy
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Careful Maggi, you'll get hooked :o
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Paddy, with a figure like mine, how am I to hide the truth!! Not for nothing am I the fat lady who sings!
Brian, fear not, I am a woman of strong Scots character;though as yon Irishman who lived in England said, "I can resist anything but temptation" :o
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Hi Maggi
I am glad that you are have having a fun time whilst Mark is visiting (and hope you have recovered from your obvious pleasure at his breathing down your neck on the first night!…)
I have never actually seen a Galanthus ‘wasp’ in the flesh but have been won over by the wonderful description in ‘the book’ which is as follows:
“From a distance the shape of the flowers suggests something winged, moving freely in the breeze, even swarming over the tight clump….” “…that bear markings that really do suggest a striped thorax. Not a classic beauty, but a classic snowdrop.”
Luckily a very kind member of this forum has offered to give me bulb if his have increased sufficiently this year. Another plus for taking part in the SRGC forum.
With my best wishes
John
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I have never actually seen a Galanthus ‘wasp’ in the flesh but have been won over by the wonderful description in ‘the book’ which is as follows:
“From a distance the shape of the flowers suggests something winged, moving freely in the breeze, even swarming over the tight clump….” “…that bear markings that really do suggest a striped thorax. Not a classic beauty, but a classic snowdrop.”
Hi John - don't lose your faith - Maggi just does not know what she is missing - this is one of those snowdrops that looks fantastic in a clump!
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there was a bigger, chubby one I liked better. I'll have to go and check what its name is! It is "Ketton"
Far be it for me to suggest any national bias, but are you sure that it was 'Ketton', rather than 'Edinburgh Ketton' ;)
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Chris - I am afraid that I think north of the border may have won on this one - I have heard more than once that Edinburgh Ketton is the better of the two ...
John
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Crikey, Chris S., you have me there. Mark told me there are two forms of Ketton, as you say, but I think it is Ketton rather than one associated with the city of my birth. If the chap is about, he'll let us know which it is.
Chris wrote "this is one of those snowdrops that looks fantastic in a clump!"
It may very well do so, all I can say is that you would need a clump to look good, since they are so small and skinny that ONE would be barely visible from any distance !!
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I've checked the photos on Mark's website, it is 'Ketton' rather than the Edinburgh version... I'll not be able to get back into the city, now :-\ oops! Sorry, Embra!
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I'll not be able to get back into the city, now :-\ oops!Sorry, Embra!
maybe I can square things by sending you an 'Edinburgh Ketton' which, as John intimated, some think is the better snowdrop anyway?
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A kind offer, Chris, but I'll risk the wrath of Embra, just enjoy my little posy of cut snowdrops from Mark and stick with the very few named sorts I have and just enjoy the wonderful old species! Thanks anyway! :-*
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here is a pink tinged snowdrop and a very fine group of elwesii 'Fred's Giant'
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Brian :"I saw lots of elwesii labelled as nivalis in a garden centre (I stopped for lunch), picking over them I found one with four petals. Is this common or likely to be stable?"
It seems it is not likely to be stable, same for the green tips Mark and Ian found at the garden centre (see BulbLog) Didn't stop them buying them ,though!
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Green tips may be a result of stress in garden centre bulbs. Ian and I saw an elwesii with a petal coming out of an ovary. What I was hoping to find was one with yellow markings or ovary. If I remember I'll ask the experts at this weekend's snowdrop event at East Lambrook Manor. I'll be giving the same lecture there but dropping one section
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Mark says "What I was hoping to find was one with yellow markings or ovary."
Ian, bless him, was looking for nice fat flowers or ones with cute expressions!
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Mark have you a pic of Galanthus Sophie North?
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Hello, Michael, nice to hear from you. I am sure that Mark will have photos of G. Sophie North on his website http://www.snowdropinfo.com/
In fact he does, here is the page to see a close-up: http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-sophie-north.html
From the SRGC site, here is a picture of Sophie North being shown at the Stirling Show by Graeme Butler and photographed by Sandy Leven;
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Here's a pic from Mark of G. Sophie North, taken from the Old Forum pages.http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/8/11.html
This was posted on 3rd February 2005
[attach=1]
See also this page for Anne Chambers' print of G. 'Sophie North' from her lovely waterclour painting.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/shows/latebulb/report.html
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someone else will have to post a good photo of 'Sophie'. I'm just in from surveying and wont have another day off in my own garden for a whopping 22 days :'(
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someone else will have to post a good photo of 'Sophie'. I'm just in from surveying and wont have another day off in my own garden for a whopping 22 days
Mark,I did, already! One is yours!
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yeah but no but ... thats a shot from my old camera days. Quel surprise! I found one
Just for Micheal .. welcome back
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Thank's Maggi and Mark.
Cheers.
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Harking back to the discussion on photographing snowdrops. I have a collection of 3-ring binders with covers of various earthy shades. They are sturdy enough to stand up on their own to act as a background. I'll try them all, but today I used a green one.
I have been experimenting with Mark's suggestion of combining "macro" and "zoom" so that one doesn't need to get too close to the flower where often the camera throws its shadow over the picture, but can stay back a little bit. It didn't work for me as using the zoom meant that the flash came on, which is not a good idea that close to a white flower. So I just got as close to the flower as needed.
Here is one of my poculiform elwesii.
Next I will experiment with manual focus.
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wow that is good. Can you post a larger image about 600 pixels wide?
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Hi Diane
thank you for the picture - I would definitely say that you have got the hand of this photographing plants lark.
(and a rather handsome looking poculiform Elwesii too)
I am looking forward to your next images being posted.
with my kind regards
John
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Hi All
I wonder if anyone can help with some suggestions. I am off to visit Colesbourne this Saturday (Dr John Grimshaw's snowdrops) - I notice that the garden doesn't open until 13.00.
Can anyone suggest if there is anywhere else 'snowdropy' to visit in the morning? Any ideas would be most welcome, be it RHS, National Trust, private garden?
We shall be driving from Kent - M25 - M4 - turn off for Cheltenham.
with many thanks for your help.
regards
John
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Unfortunately, I have been away from the forum for a little while - missed yesterday as I was snowdrop visiting; will tell more about that in a moment.
Must comment on a few of the postings of Wednesday and Thursday, so many of which I found very interesting. Here in no particular order.
Great to see Michael Campbell posting here. Welcome Michael. I have some of your narcissus growing in the garden, purchased from you at a Dublin show several years ago. Have you still got your own log going?
Congratulations to Mark - your talk and visit must have been something special to have Maggi interested in snowdrops, even if it is only the chubby ones yet.
Delighted to see G. 'Sophie North' being posted. It is one of my very favourite snowdrops and because of its association rather than any inherent beauty. As a school teacher it always brings back to mind the terrible events of Dunblane and although this may seem a morbid connection for a snowdrop to some, I think it is a beautiful way to remember Sophie North and the other children who lost their lives on that occasion. Certainly in my garden it will always keep their memories alive.
Delighted to see Diane's photograph as it shows she certainly has started on the road of excellent photography. Diane you describe your photography as experementing and this is how it continues forever, I think. Your photographs will give us a new connection with N.W. America.
Pink shades on snowdrops. Mark, I think we are just being hopeful. Several snowdrops show this feature. Is it the stamens 'shining' through the petals? I don't imagine we are yet going down the line of narcissus breeding and really I hope we don't.
Yesterday I visited Altamont Gardens in Tullow, Co. Carlow. This was formerly the garden of Mrs. Corona North who passed away several years ago and left the garden to the state. It is now being run by the Office of Public Works (similiar to the National Trust but a government body). The head gardener is a Paul Cutler who trained at Wisley. Paul has a particular interest in snowdrops and has been putting a collection of snowdrops together and I am delighted to say he has been helped by the generosity of gardeners around the country. He has organised a Snowdrop Week for the past few years and they have proved to be extremely popular, attracting increasingly bigger numbers each year. The Snowdrop Week begins on this Sunday. The setting for snowdrops here is excellent as it is an old garden with mature trees and great plantings of interesting rhododendrons which Corona North's father planted.
Two snowdrops which particularly caught my attention, sorry no photographs at the moment, were G. 'Drummond Giant' which originated locally some years ago and is a good growing elwesii cultivar, does very well in the gardenl, clumping up with ease. The second was another elwesii(not perfectly sure of this) cultivar which is one of the best snowdrops I have seen in ages. It is immediately eye-catching, very strong wide foliage and very tall and upright. I hasn't been officially named as yet. Previously was labelled as 'JR' or 'Jim Reynolds' because of a reported association with Jim who gardens in Co. Meath but on further enquiry it seems that Jim had never heard of it. It is now being labelled as 'Skyward' though this is not yet officially published. Paul wishes to grow this snowdrop on for a few years to be sure it remains constant in its appearance. It is going well for the past few years now and will be most desirable when available.
While on the above subject: I believe this is an excellent project and would urge any of you who has a few snowdrops to spare to contact Paul to see if they would be of benefit to the collection. Unfortunately he is not on e-mail but can be written to at Paul Cutler, Altamont Gardens, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland. And as a disclaimer - I have no beneficial interest in the gardens other than being delighted to see a collection being put together and being properly documented, verified and well maintained. I am delighted that I have been able to donate a few cultivars from my own garden over the past few years.
So now that I am back, you can see that I am as long-winded as ever.
Looking forward to John's report from Colesbourne.
Paddy
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President Ian has shown these photos on the old Forum, so I'm reposting them here, to be handy!
Fred' Giant clump
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Fred's Giant closer
[attach=2]
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Here is a comparison for those interested in minutae - Galanthus 'Merlin' and 'Tubby Merlin', I've had both from reputable sources, so which do you think is which? (I know which I got them as).
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Also, here is my Sophie North, a favourite of mine and like Paddy, I always think of the children every time I see it. Below, another favourite for the shape and compactness, G. gracilis.
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AND FINALLY! I bought this as plicatus 'Warham', any thoughts anyone?
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Merlin and Tubby Merlin:
Well Anne, the first is the more tubby ( works for me!) so I assume that you were sold the tubby one as Merlin and the slimmer one as Tubby Merlin, sod's law and commerce being what it is!
Your G. gracilis is so simply but neatly and cleanly marked, isn't it?
As to 'Warham' I wouldn't know it if I saw it, so I'm no help there, as ever!
I am sure that all over the world, the lost children of Dunblane are fondly remembered in the lovely Galanthus 'Sophie North'. We have many Members in Dunblane and some had children at that school when the murders were committed. It was a terrible day of shock and fear for so many and it is the nearest I come to praying when I wish that such a thing never happens again. It already has done, of course, in various places in the world: what a waste.
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At least your 'Warham' (? ) IS plicatus! Mark has taught me that two plicate edges shows a G. plicatus, while only one side folded indicates a hybrid. Oh, dear, I'm learning things about snowies! EEK!
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Go and lie down in a darkened room, Maggi, till it wears off.
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I've tried that for ten minutes, Anne, I'm dreaming of hellebores!
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Oh, dear, I'm learning things about snowies! EEK!
I think Anne is right - best to go and lie down till it wears off ::) ::) ::)
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I've tried that for ten minutes, Anne, I'm dreaming of hellebores!
Maggi - sounds like the white fever may be passing, but best to give it another 10 minutes, just to be sure ;)
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President Ian has shown these photos on the old Forum, so I'm reposting them here, to be handy!
Fred' Giant clump
(Attachment Link)
Fred's Giant closer
(Attachment Link)
Hi Maggi - thanks very much for re-posting these pics of 'Fred's Giant' (which look just like the one's that I have got, which are not particularly big and do not really live up to the descriptive 'Giant') - I am looking forward to the further pics from President Ian, when he has had the chance to get the camera out, both to see any differences in the inner segment marks & also the stature of the plant.
I will have a chance next week to look at 'Fred's Giant' in the garden of Michael Baron - my memory is of a much bigger plant, but perhaps the memory plays tricks -either that or I need to find out what Michael feeds it on ;)
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Here is one of my poculiform elwesii.
Hi Diane - great snowdrop and one to be treasured - do you have a picture that shows the leaves as well?
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Anne, I'm not sure if you're just setting forumists a test or genuinely not certain which is which, but the top pic is Merlin and the second one Tubby Merlin (I'm sure you knew that!).
Tubby Merlin's a seedling found in his Cotswold garden by the late E.B. Anderson, and it was actually my mum who inspired the name on a visit in, I think, the sixties. E.B. Anderson showed her the flower and asked what she thought, to which she replied 'It looks like a tubby little Merlin' (because it was much shorter than the real Merlin). And that's what it ended up being called. I don't think the tubby bit was meant in the same as chubby or fat, but in reference to its shorter stature.
Dunno about the Warham. There's a lot of "Warhams" around. Mine came from Colin Mason and is the commonly accepted version (for what that's worth!). Where did you get yours? Broadleigh?
Okay, that's my five minutes spare time today used up! Back tothe word processor - I'm on a very tight deadline. Haven't even been out in the garden today, despite the nice weather. Maybe tomorrow.
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Martin wrote
I don't think the tubby bit was meant in the same as chubby or fat, but in reference to its shorter stature.
Martin, I mean no disrespect to your dear Mother, but if that is what she meant,"but in reference to its shorter stature" she perhaps meant to say the word "stubby" !! ;) Or perhaps the famous Mr Anderson was a little deaf? One can be short, one can be stubby, but if one is tubby, there is certainly chubbiness involved. I know about these things, trust me.
Shows how inconsistent these namings are, since Merlin is much tubbier than Tubby Merlin, as I supposed. You galanthophiles.... I don't know ::) ???
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Martin's ID confirms my labels, thank goodness. The 'Warham' was bought at a local group plant sale.
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What - nearly a whole page of Snowdrop posts since the last picture .. what do you galanthophiles find to talk about? After all, small white and green flowers, seen one seen ........ :-X OK OK Keep your hair on (Mark, if you are reading this that doesn't apply to you - hope the clippers have brought things back under control ;D) - I like them too
Here are a few of mine - you'll have seen them all before I am sure ;)
Galanthus 'Magnet'
Galanthus rizehensis
Galanthus woronowii
Galanthus fosteri - reputedly shy to flower. Mine are under glass and do divide up fast but they also make a nice show of flowers - at least they do when I seerate the bigger ones and grow them together! I'll try and post again when they are fully open.
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Martin, I mean no disrespect to your dear Mother, but if that is what she meant,"but in reference to its shorter stature" she perhaps meant to say the word "stubby" !! ;)
Quite right, Maggi, and she may well have meant something more like that. It was just a throw-away comment on my Mum's part, not something thought out or intended to become a name, and she was surprised when it started being passed around with that name. Indeed, snowdrops are often named on an impulse because someone in a group looking at it comes up with a quick quip or offhand observation that's jumped on and used as a name (snowdrop parties sometimes involve a drink or two!).
I found time just now to look at my snowdrop seed pots with a torch. My first foray into the garden all day!
Very, very, very slow germination - almost nothing showing, which is a first for this time of year. Except for the autumn snowdrops, the reginae-olgae seedlings and crosses, all up as normal. I wonder if the shortage of cold weather this winter means the snowdrop seeds haven't had enough cold spells to stimulate germination? I guess that wouldn't worry the autumn reginae-olgae types, which (as in the adult bulbs) are probably more stimulated by cool and wet rather than sharp cold?
Whatever, I may have to resort to putting them in the fridge (if my wife will let me!) Otherwise I'll have very little to show this year for all my pollination last year. :-[
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Speak nicely, Martin, to the lovely Ivi, who might make a Valentine gift to you of a little fridge which you may use for chilling/storing all sorts of stuff. Ian has one, in the shed! The fridge was very cheap because it had been scratched and a little dented in the shop... BIG reduction ;D
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Anne, your Warham's a very nice-looking plicatus. It doesn't look a million miles away from what mine look like, except that it's quite early - mine are only just coming up and are always pretty late. I'll try to find time to post a pic when they're flowering, for comparison.
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Good idea Maggi...I need more space for my cold beers too! Mmmm, now I fancy a break from work and an ice-cold bottle of Prague's finest Staropramen (the name means 'old well' because the water to make the beer is taken from a very deep old well in Prague Old Town). And if I polish off the New York baked cheese cake on the bottom shelf I could just fit in a tray of pots pending my Valentine's gift. :)
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Just spent all morning trawling around local garden centres snowie-hunting. Some had none at all >:(, but a couple had some elwesii (one even labelled as such), though only just flowering, and nothing very interesting. :'(
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Absolutely glorious weather today, so I took some pics of snowdrops in the garden.
They are: Galanthus nivalis 'Anglesey Abbey'; G. plicatus 'Castle Green'; G. 'Dionysus'; G. elwesii 'Fred's Giant'; G. 'Little Ben'; G. nivalis 'Magnet'; G. nivalis 'Sandersii' and G. nivalis 'Hololeucus'.
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Hi Anthony
lovely pictures - thank you.
I wonder if you may have time to edit your post to include the names of the flowers that you have shown as text. When someone uses the search facility within the forum they do not find words that are only included as part of the image names. The search only looks at the actual typed text within a post.
Just thinking of the future and making the SRGC forum as useful and searchable for others as possible.
cheers
John
Well said, John. A useful point. Please take note , everyone! M
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Tony, your Gal. woronowii doesn't look right for the species. Wrong leaf (should be wide and convolute) and wrong kind of mark (should be flat-topped). Looks like a green-leaved G. nivalis variant. Nice though! Is the G. rizehensis the triploid Prof. Baytop form? Look pretty robust, so I'm guessing maybe it is.
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Anthony, very nice, healthy-looking clump of 'Sandersii'.
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Martin, that clump was bought as a pot of four at a garden centre some years back.
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My Little Ben just starting to flower. This was bought over 30 years ago as Mighty Atom now apparently not. Whatever it is it is my favourite snowdrop for attitude in this clump its grows to only 4 to 5 inches that's 100 to 125mm and has long pedicels with huge flowers which almost touch the ground the longest petals are around 39mm
The next Imperati Ginns and Magnet always a good doer
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Now, I DO have G. Ginn's imperati, (I use the name this way round, since that's how I got it) and it is a real joy. Lovely form to the flowers and a truly delicious scent, one os the nicest scented snowies, I think. It's not out here in Aberden yet.
sorry, this should read 'Ginns' Imperati'
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I don't want to appear picky, but the apostrophe comes as in: Ginns' Imperati. Named after a Mr Ginns.
My apology, Anne : Ginns' Imperati, it is.
Or even G. nivalis subsp. imperati 'Ginns' it seems! M
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I am somewhat puzzled to read, in an archived article from the Telegraph, this description of Ginns' Imperati: "Similar to 'S. Arnott' but with an even stronger scent of bitter almonds".
This is not how I think of this scent at all. Admittedly, I must wait a week or two to get my nose to my own flowers, but I would never have described the scent in this way. I'm either wrong (again) or I must start to be more careful about which nuts I eat. We knew someone who died after tucking into a large bag of mixed almonds, brought back from holiday abroad., not noticing that some tasted odd...... not a good way to go.
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I am somewhat puzzled to read, in an archived article from the Telegraph, this description of Ginns' Imperati: "Similar to 'S. Arnott' but with an even stronger scent of bitter almonds".
This is not how I think of this scent at all.
I quite agree with you Maggi, it always reminds me of runny honey.
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hey I'm home. So much done in three days.
Tony G and Ian Mc your Magnets may be wrong. I see no signs of a long pedicel. Anthony's is spot on.
Tony your woronowii dont seem to have the right leaves. At that stage one should be wrapped around the other.
Anne your gracilis leaves are way too big. They could be a gracilis hybrid
Sorry for being so negative on my return
but on the plus side I'm laiden with gifts and purchases
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Anne 'Tubby Merlin' has an olive ovary and usually produces twin scapes. Below is 'Merlin' and 'Tubby Merlin' - well as I have them
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Hi Mark, thanks for your comments. This is the same pot of gracilis last year, do you still think they're a hybrid? I grew them from seed.
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I believe they are hybrids. The leaves seem to be too wide
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Mark, re. Anne's Gal. gracilis, I've seen plenty of true wild-origin gracilis with quite wide leaves. Matt Bishop and Aaron Davis both give the leaf width as up to 1.2cm and exceptionally to as much as 2.2 and 2.6cm. The twisting leaf also looks right.
As for 'Magnet', in the early stages of flowering the pedicel is still wrapped in the spathe, as in any snowdrop, later emerging fully. So when first open, the flowers are held more upright on what looks like a shorter pedicel. Once fully out of the spathe, snowdrop pedicels also continue to grow and lengthen a little (hence the past diagnostic confusion over Arnott and Brenda Troyle supposedly having different pedicel lengths - they don't; both can have short and long pedicels in a single clump, depending on the age of the individual flowers). So Tony's and Ian's 'Magnets' may well develop longer dangly pedicels later. The marks look okay.
Hope you enjoyed East Lambrook and the talk went well. I'm too busy to even get out and look at any snowdrops.
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Looking at the Magnet pics again, Ian's seem already to be developing a quite long arching pedicel. Tony's may well do so with more time. Let us know, Tony.
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well slapped on the wrists by Martin :-[
Lecture at East Lambrook Manor went down very well. I highly recommend the event. When in the area try and attend the snowdrop days at Colesbourne and Garden House too.
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Sorry Mark, didn't mean to slap wrists, just put in my ha-pennyworth. Maybe I came across a bit curt 'cos I'm so grumpy about having to work all day instead of go out and spend time with the snowdrops (especiallly the last couple of glorious sunny days here, when I was shackled to my desk most of the time). :(
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Telephone line trouble and difficulty in accessing the site when the line was repaired have kept me from my daily visit to the forum but, on the good side, the return is a great pleasure when there are so many photographs to see at once. It really is a brilliant facility, this forum, giving such access to a tremendous range of snowdrops and experiences. Many thanks to Tony, Anthony, Ian, Anne and Mark for the wonderful photographs.
As commented earlier Mark, it does seem that 'Merlin' and 'Tubby Merlin' seem to have been misnamed as 'Merlin' does seem to be the more bulky snowdrop. Glad to hear your travels and talks went so well. Well done! No doubt you have also returned home with a new selection of snowdrops to add to the collection. Anything especially interesting?
Anthony, your clump of 'Sandersii' seems to be in robust good health. I have very little experience with this snowdrop, growing it for only the past two years. While it is growing well I always watch it with hope rather than confidence as the snowdrop book describes is as one which is not the easiest to grow.
Martin, I recall postings about the double spathed 'Magnet' last year which prompted me to get on my knees and examine my clump here and I found one with a double spathe. I lifted the bulb and planted it elsewhere to keep an eye on it. It is significantly behind the others in coming to flower and I am not sure how it is going to perform this year. Will comment when I can.
The most fabulous weather here this weekend; Friday to Sunday were days when I worked in the garden in a T-shirt and even so clad perspired heavily - well then, I was 'working' and not simply admiring the snowdrops!
And, by the way, does Maggi seem to be becoming more and more involved and interested in snowdrops? What a turn about for the books. She may even convert to Irish whiskey next now that she is beginning to appreciate the good things of life!
Paddy
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Quick question: Has anyone experience of growing snowdrops in a wetter part of the garden. One part especially of my garden becomes particularly wet in winter. The snowdrops growing there are both late and the bulbs quite small when I lifted them. Comments welcome.
Paddy
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When collecting some Potash from the local garden centre the other day I remembered the posting of Nivalis (well not really) Elwesii found in local garden centres in Scotland. The company that does these must have very long arms indeed and an endless supply of Elwesii and possibly others -The labels are the same. I also have a green leaved one coming up. I spent a few enjoyable minutes soting through these and found this one which I thought interesting
Chris S you mentioned Freds Giant from Ian C and Micheal Barron and whether these would be different. I have both and at present the most impressive is Ian's, but maybe they will turn out to be the same.
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The only part of my garden that could be wetter than where my snowdrops are is called "the pond".
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quite interesting Ian but time will tell
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So, Anthony, you are developing a new strain of waterdrops?
Paddy
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When reading about Snowdrops I often see the term "Greatorex"-could someone tell who or what this is please?
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David Heyrick Greatorex was a breeder of snowdrops crossing double nivalis with G plicatus. All are named after females in Shakespears plays
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As supplied to me
'Titania'
'Dionysus'
'Ophelia'
'Jacquenetta'
'Cordelia'
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Thanks for that Mark.
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I think 'Ophelia' is my favourite, although I only have 'Dionysus'. My wife thinks 'Grumpy' would suit me better. Fortunately no chance of that one!
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Thanks for the pictures Mark - that has thrown doubt on my 2 - I think I shall re-label them as just 'Greatorex doubles'.
John
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No, Anthony. If you want a Grumpy you will have to make do with a rhododendron. My nephew made a collection of all the 7 Dwarfs when he was about 12. It was a good start - he has a degree in Landscape Architecture now.
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Anthony if you really need elwesii 'Grumpy' I can look for it at the Gala this weekend
John there was discussion of wood chips/bark at East Lambrook Manor. They arent good for snowdrops especially those made from conifers
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Seems like Diane's family are making a good job of raising their children to grow the right things! I would like to point out that Rhododenron 'Grumpy' is a neat growing Yakushimanum hybrid which is very hardy and not at all variable!!
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Last night was the coldest we have had of the winter, very heavy frost, frozen ponds, dangerous roads etc. Snowdrops are lying flat on the ground and look as though they will never recoved. Of course, this has happened each of the past few mornings and they have recovered perfectly well.
The past weekend had excellent weather and here are some snowdrop photographs taken then. Apologies that they are being posted piecemeal but the connection I am on at the moment will not handle any more.
Paddy
Blaris
Brenda Troyle
Cedric's Prolific
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Drummond Giant
Ginn's Imperati
Paddy
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Back at home, tummy filled, coffee quaffed and just before I go out to a local garden club meeting, hope that I can post the rest of the weekend's snowdrop photographs.
James Backhouse
John Grey
Ketton
Limetree
Lyn
Magnet
Merlin
Paddy
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Last few.
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Finally, can anybody hazard a guess at the identity of this snowdrop. I was given it some time ago and have lost/forgotten the name.
Paddy
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-6C for us this morning. My snowdrops and Narcissus never lifted their stems all day
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Nice pictures Paddy. I particularly liked the one of Wendy's Gold against a clear blue sky.
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whats the leaf type? Great looking patch of Arnotts. You must have divided them in the last year or two
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Mark,
Yes, all my snowdrops were flat on the ground this morning but these photographs are from last weekend when the weather was delicious.
I divided the S. Arnott two years ago. That clump is from an ititial purchase of three bulbs in 2001, I think. Fabulous increase really.
Paddy
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Forgot Mark, I will examine the foliage, of the unknown snowdrop, more closely, photographs etc and repost tomorrow, weather permitting. Too late tonight, going out now.
Paddy
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David,
Wendy's Gold is a beautiful snowdrop. The yellow against the blue sky is good. Paddy
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Paddy, isn't it the same as all the above except for the yellow ones? ;D
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Mark and John,
I have to disagree with the opinion that snowdrops are adverse to bark.I have a collection of about 150 with large drifts of Magnet,Arnott,Brenda Troyle,Viridipicis,Atkinsii and all of the Greatorex hybs.I started collecting 35yrs.ago before the mania took over and gave up once I realised that all I was collecting were 'NAMES' with a few exceptions.However,back to the bark.I have been using composted wood/bark for many years and in vast quantities.I rotovate it into the soil as well as an annual mulch and I apply a good 2" as a mulch and the snowdrops seem to love it as they increase at a fair rate.I garden on a very heavy neutral clay and bark has been very beneficial to all of my planting.I thoroughly reccomend it but make sure that it is composted.My picture shows my last delivery.
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This snowdrop is my pride and joy of the moment. I found it two years ago but it failed to flower last year; it's an elwesii, by the way.
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I think the key word that, if missing, will seal the doom of most snow drops. The word is "composted". Composted bark is an excellent resource. It's the (play)bark mulch that's the killer.
That's a strange pedicel on "John Gray" Paddy, and I have "James Backhouse" but it doesn't seem to have the long petals yours has.
Nice elwesii Alan, if it is constant, and welcome to the forum.
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Thank you for the welcome (although I posted a little on the old forum).
My green elwesii is no less green than it was two years ago. I found it in a different location, by a lamp post, actually. So I have every reason to hope it will remain constant. On the other hand, none of the offsets has yet managed to flower. Am I counting my chickens too soon?
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Hi Alan
thanks for the picture of the Green Elwesii - it is a lovely looking plant - when you want to trial it in other gardens you have a willing volunteer here!... ;D
John - thanks for your thoughts on the use of bark. I have been top dressing with it for the 5 years that I have lived here. It is actually just the non composted bark that I have used (decorative mulch). For the last 2 or 3 years I have been growing snowdrops and they seem reasonably happy - but I have heard from so many people that bark is bad for them - hence my original post/question on the subject. It is good to hear of your use of composted bark and I shall look out for that in the spring when it is time to replenish my mulch.
regards
John
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The was a question posed a few days ago about where to visit in the vicinity of Colesbourne http://www.snowdrop.org.uk/ (http://www.snowdrop.org.uk/).
You could take a look at Painswick Rococo Garden http://www.rococogarden.co.uk/ (http://www.rococogarden.co.uk/). I recall mass plantings of a 'wrong' snowdrop - atkinsii maybe.
Also nearby is Rodmarton Manor http://www.rodmarton-manor.co.uk/ (http://www.rodmarton-manor.co.uk/) which is well worth a visit. "The garden will be open for snowdrops on 11th, 15th and 18th February from 1.30pm."
Edit: Oh. I have just discoverd there is a whole page on Colesbourne (and also that my reply is too late to be apposite). Maybe a moderator can move this reply to the appropriate page?
Not to worry, the post you make is relevant here. I am confident that those reading the Colesbourne page will read this too! Cheers,
M
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Alan you need to get the green elwesii twinscaled. It's too good to let die. I know someone who will do it for you. She does many every year.
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Fortunately, my green elwesii is not the only one. When I asked permission of the garden owner to take it from the verge of her garden, we looked round and found another one growing elsewhere. The garden has many naturalised elwesii and some nivalis and plicatus also. Since this initial discovery I found one more and I understand several others have turned up. For some reason they seem to manifest as dispersed singles rather than in a clump.
I would like to wait until I have at least two flowering bulbs before I consider getting one twin-scaled.
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Anne,
How could you try to spoil my fun so cruelly. Hurt, it's the only word for it. Heartbroken, to hear the poor snowdrops spoken/written of in such disparaging terms. I'm overwhelmed by this blow. Reeeeeling, I am. How could you? AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!
Anthony,
You had me worried with your comment on 'John Gray' and I looked in the snowdrop book, read very carefully, studied the photographs etc and could find nothing in the photograph to alarm me. The pedicle seems to me to be to description though the angle of the spathe to the pedicle in this photograph is, perhaps, a little odd. However, there is a simple explanation for this: the hand of the photographer giving a little twist on the stem lower down so as to face the flower in a more suitable way for the photograph. What did you notice?
Re 'James Backhouse', I find there is a certain range of variation between the flowers in the clump and this one was chosed for the photograph because it seemed the most photogenic! The illustration in the snowdrop book, page 227, shows two rather 'demented' flowers. The one on the left is particularly odd but the one on the right is closer to the one I photographed. I would describe mine as one of the better examples of 'James Backhouse' - and I am sometimes even more full of it than this!
Alan,
The green elwesii is just a beauty. No wonder it is your pride and joy. Well spotted. May it grow in health and in number and may you enjoy it as much always.
Paddy
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I'll take a pic of my John Gray.
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Do you mean the pedicle is strange because the scape is upright? I have never seen a good 'John Gray' as they always fall over. Best grown in a trough says David Bromley
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Aye, Mark, 'John Gray' is inclined to flop about a bit; it's a fairly tall plant or perhaps he was fond of the wee drop. I haven't found it falling over to the extent of lying on the ground fortunately but with this unfortunate habit in mind I planted mine is a very sheltered spot so as, at least, not to have the wind adding to its bad habits and this has proved reasonably successful.
Paddy
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Isaw Maggis's posting about mixed pot of 'UK' snowdrops at the garden centre and found some in our local one bearing the same label. There was just one pot in any sort of health, perhaps beecause they are all growing in peat compost and had been allowed to dry out. I bought the good one and waspleased with the variation. No two were the same.
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Not at all surprised that you are pleased with this batch, John. Lots of variation for just a few quid, if the prices down there are same as here. £2.48 per pot, I :D think
Surround them with barbed wire and everyone will think you're a millionaire!
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I was robbed!!! Had to shell out £2.99 for mine. :'(
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Crikey, Jof, you'll really need that barbed wire ,then :P
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cheap at half the price - they are charging 5.99 a pot at a garden centre in Kent!
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Had to take the weans to my parents' in Doune as Stirling schools had inservice training yesterday and today. Saw this unusual nivalis 'Viridapicis' in their lawn so took its pic in the gloom when I picked them up again (no snow dropping here in central Scotland yet). I just think it is a freak occurance and probably won't be repeated?
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Very odd, Anthony. I saw a similar thing, with unusually long bracts and pedicels somewhere else recently. Should have mentioned it at the time, can't recall where it was now. Probably in the forum.
Just found it on Sunday 11th ! It's in post #163 of Paddy's, on page 9 of this thread. it is G. n. 'Warei', it seems.
It is most pronounced in your photos, makes the stem look strange. Also the bracts ( is that right, the things like rabbit ears behind the flower) are very divided. Sharlockii does that to an extent, doesn't it, so that is only a bit odd then!
I can't cope with this, I'm off to look atthe crocus again!
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Don't ya just love 'em?
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Maggi for a self pronounced galanthophobe you seem to know an awful lot about them !!!! :-\
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Anthony, it will be repeated, it is scharlockii.
The dutch wholesalers often sell scharlockii as viridapici
Some growers do grow them mixed and you find all sorts of things like warei etc,...
all lenghts of ears
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Does that mean the whole clump is Scharlockii? I started off with a small pot several years ago and have divided them up several times. Some even come up with no green on the outer petals, but that is the only one to look like that above. As the pot was from one clump I have assumed that I have one clone and any variation is purely environmental. My original clump came from the SRGC stand at the Early Bulb Display.
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Maggi for a self pronounced galanthophobe you seem to know an awful lot about them !!!!
Ian McE , the answer is simple, as aged Father (old soldier with medals and assorted "decorations") says, Know your enemy!
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Here is a clump of Galanthus Atkinsii, which I have had for many years and is now all over the garden. It is a very substantial, tall snowdrop which stands up really well to the bracing winds that Blackpool is famous for.
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I'm hoping that this is Galanthus Viridapice.
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Maggi I did not know Your father was a thousand year old general from China ???
Just kidding :)
"Know your enemy" is from Tzun Tsus classic "Art of war". The spelling of his name varies a lot.
A very nice piece of work that is still vallid today as You know.
Surprice Your enemy is also part of his saying and that You truely did. Well I am not Your enemy nor a galanthofil/phobe just a bit indifferent to them so far.
Joakim
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Joakim, father is 93 year old major from Scotland, who, like all clever men, has learned a great deal from history, or at least some very fine quotes!
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Franz looks like Viradapice to me. That is of course if mine is the true one.
Maggi who was it said that what we learn from history is that we never learn
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Don't know who said it first, Ian, but it's true for most of us, isn't it?
Here's the chap, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770-1831)
[attach=1]
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All I can say is history is a thing of the past.
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A shackle to the past or a handrail to the future!!!!!!!!!! 8)
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Franz,
While I could not claim authority and will remain subject to correction, I think your galanthus may be G. Sharlockii. I say this because to the split spathe which is held upright above the flower - the 'rabbit ears' effect often used to describe 'Sharlockii'.
Paddy
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Two snowdrops from the garden today - the good Irish snowdrop G. 'Straffan' and G. 'Selborne Greentip' which unfortunately is in dreadful condition. It is the only flower of it that I have and while I have waited patiently day by day for it to open for the camera, I find that when it eventually the outer petals had been significantly damaged by the recent heavy frosts we have had here. So, with my excuses made in advance, here they are.
Paddy
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Paddy just goes to show there's not much difference between them or as Maggi might say "it's just another green and white one" but we still love em ;D
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just home from a very exciting Galanthus Gala weekend of events and private invites. 6 inches of snow on Saturady and not a drop today with double figure temperatures.
I have to say a big hello to the lurkers who came forward and said hello to me.
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We went to one garden to see the collection of rare Galanthus aquaticus. Suggestions of cultivar names are needed
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Could they be pollinated by mosquito larvae? Or perhaps water striders?
A possible Cv name could be "Mortgagee"
cheers
fermi
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This strange snowdrop was on display at the Galanthus Gala: I think it belonged to Phil Cornish. It had a distinct orange tinge to it - by contrast with the normal white snowdrop to the right.
As an aside, I met Mark at the Gala and I must say that the little photograph that accompanies his posts does not quite do him justice.
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thanks Alan. £10 in the post when I get your address.
So that makes two of us - Maggi last week and now me. I'm with the Young's and all the bulb growers this weekend so I'll get a new photo. The one to the left is from either last year or 2005. A Dutch guy and John Massey said I looked like the King himself - Elvis!
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Paddy you are right it is Galanthus nivalis Scharlockii. It shows a pair of miniature, elongated donkey’s ears. Thank you.
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Here is one that I believe is very coveted at present. Though this poor flowere has been flattened under the snow. Perhaps I should have cleaned it up first but it was throwing it down with rain and I was too lazy. From a friend and local expert's garden G South Hayes
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Ian, that's the ultimate prize.
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Here is a rather nice snowdrop I found today. You will see, I hope, that it is pure white on the outside ('scuse fingers). The only colouration is on the inside of the inner petals and then only near the base.
I don't know much about white snowdrops. The inner petals are their usual shape and size so I presume it is not 'poculiform'. Is it likely to come back the same next year or could this be a one-off? There were several other white snowdrops growing in the vicinity of this one.
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Alan can you take a photo of the white in the normal position? It looks great so look after it.
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What's this?
Did Ian Mc just show some enthusiasm for snowdrops?
Then again, G. 'South Hayes' is a very good one.
Alan, that's a nice one!
Paddy
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Ian McE:Perhaps I should have cleaned it up first
Indeed you should, Ian. How would you like to have your picture plastered all over the world wide web with a dirty face?
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Paddy I do love the white things honest guv, but what I don't really understand is why!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It may be something to do with fact that I am impatient and can't wait for the next lot of lovelys in March April and May
Here is my favourite again Little Ben or Mighty Atom I now have 2 different opinions from quite knowlegeable galanthophiles - they do say with 2 experts that I should have got 3 opinions and I am beginning to think that this might apply to snowdrops. The one thing is certain that if I think a thing is good or has style or class its good for me so who cares.
Here is an example of the same plant growing in different locations in my garden. Who would dream that they were the same. One is 4/5 inches high with oversized flowers the other twice the height but probably smaller flowers. By the way the largest flower (and I like em big) are 38mm petals and are getting bigger by the day
Franz showed his Viridapice the other day and Paddy you probably quite rightly identified this as Scharlokii. Here again my Viradapice does have some split spathes as shown below. If Snowdrops were Crocuses we would be more likely to get a definitive answers but the area of galanthophilia the differences are often so small
By the way I'm not sure about South Hayes but I suppose it is must have
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Maggi that's why I'm wearing a cap it saves on soap
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I sneaked, again!, home about a hour ago because it's a lovely day here. All flowers that open and close, in the garden and glass house, are wide open. I'll have to get the pollinating brush out.
For those experiementing with Galanthus: G. 'Trym's markings are dominant especiually when crossed with G. gracilis
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Ian,
These snowdrops just take you under your control so that you will ensure the survival of the species. It's a clever evolutionary development on their part.
I wondered about the 'Mighty Atom' and its different appearances from different growing conditions. A similar occurence happened here but due to a different reason. Early last summer I put a good mulch of garden compost on one bed which had several clumps of snowdrops. Naturally enough this meant they were then buried deeper than they had been originally and so when they came into growth and flower this year they seemed much lower to the ground than previously.
Re identification, I'm afraid I wouldn't dream of putting myself forward as an expert. It was just that 'Sharlockii' strikes me as distinctive, well, as distinctive as any of these little things can be.
Paddy
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'Fraid I'm not a galanthophile....... in that I am not a collector of white things with a few green spots....... ;D ;D ;D ;D
So dare I tread into this thread, having nailed my colours to the mast? However, it's been such a lovely day here in East Linton that I took a walk up to Smeaton where the snaw dreeps were just bonny. Sorry folk, nothing fancy, just plain old nivalis, but a gloriously uplifting sight after such dreadful weather lately.
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Dave wonderful sight Nivalis is always beautiful. It's a good job you are not a Galanthophile as most will be different there would be the opportunity another couple of thousand variations to name ;D
Paddy the taller Mighty Atom / little Ben is under evergreens and gets less moisture and the soil is less good so I'm still confused.
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David surely there must be another species added in there somewhere such as G. plicatus which is quite common in Scotland. When I was in Scotland last year we found 100s of poculiforms and semi poculiforms
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No problem there Ian, cos I'm a lumper. But I think with the population at Smeaton the hardened galanthophile would be hard put to find anything remotely distinct. No doubles/semi doubles, no yellow bits, just a simple splash of green ;D A few years ago, I showed this site to Matt Bishop, who said this was one of the least variable populations he'd seen!!!! But then again, there's no stopping some galanthophiles. :D :D :D :D
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I don't believe it, but you're welcome to come and look, Mark. There's a challenge for you. :) The location should be good for at least another week or so........
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Dave unfortunately my travelling during snowdrop time 2007 ends this weekend. I'll have been out of N Ireland for 12 days.
Some people have said they would rather see snowdrops photographed without a background. This doesnt really help for ID purposes. I got home early enough to take photos during the last hour of day light. Feel free to comment on background or no background
'David Shackleton'
elwesii short form unnamed
'Little John'
nivalis ex Lac de Balcere
plicatus 'Wendy's Gold'
unknown - lost label
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Dave,
No matter how fancy the various snaw dreep cultivars we seek out and collect none can surpass the sight of a large planting of the common snowdrop.
Wonderful sight!
Many thanks.
Mark,
Lovely photographs. Re background or lack thereof: Personally I prefer the background of the garden as long, of course, as the gable end of the garage or other such like doesn't intrude. The use of a plain colour background has its uses also. As you say, it is very beneficial when close scrutiny of the flower is desired or when the illustration is for identification purposes. I suppose my photographs are simply for my own pleasure and not for illustration purposes.
'David Shackleton' is an excellent snowdrop, always a good performer.
As my youngest is named John, 'Little John' has interest for that reason alone but is a good snowdrop in its own right also.
G. nivalis ex Lac de Balcere is a fine bulky nivalis - unusually big and well flaired outer segments for G. nivalis; a good one.
Paddy
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none can surpass the sight of a large planting of the common snowdrop. says Paddy.
The glory of a mass of flowers like these in a snowdrop wood is truly charming. I believe that it is the fact that we can see such drifts of snowies at an otherwise dismal time of year that is their real charm. The fact that lots of fun can be had by the fanatics in seeking rarities has rather overshadowed the real delight of these flowers, performing like theatrical stars in their
natural(-ised) setting. By the time our woods are full of bluebells, there are so many other plants to take our attention, and bluebells, bless 'em, though lovely, are just too keen to colonise the world.
All this is true for those in the UK or Ireland, of course, were we with Rafa or Ibrahim then we might be less inclined to be so snowie blinded!!
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Paddy do you have/want 'Little John'?
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I agree, agree, agree Maggi
BUT...please, 'enthusiasts' not 'fanatics'.
Paddy
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Mark,
Many thanks for your kind offer, greatly appreciated.
Yes, 'Little John' was one I just had to have, son's namesake and all that. I suppose we collect snowdrops for less valid reasons!
Paddy
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Two ordinary snowdrops from the garden, photographed yesterday and one special one for Anne Wright, one I hope you like Anne.
G. 'Limetree'
G. X Allenii
G. 'S. Arnott' striped: this flower is from a patch of G. 'S. Arnott' which is growing in the garden. I thought it looked interesting.
And, oh yes, Mark, you will note the use of the background card. It was miserable outside yesterday, torrential rain, so I picked and photographed indoors - which, unfortunately, explains the grainy nature of the phogograph, high ISO.
Paddy
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Another shot of my foundling pure white snowdrop - with some ordinary ones in the background. The leaves are actually quite curious; only a few mm wide but strongly curved inwards forming a vertical tube so only the undersides are exposed to daylight. I take it the plant is a nivalis elwesii cross as both grow in close proximity.
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Gosh, that 'S. Arnott' is something special Paddy.
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Paddy there's a fine line between an enthusiast and being OBSESSIVE!!!!!!!!
Are you sure which side of the line many Galanthophiles fall ;D
All I know is that I hope I can stay on the right side of the line but here's another to keep you going- Primrose Warburg one bulb last year and seven this. Nothing else has done so well?
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;) Paddy!
elwesii 'Pyramid' was mentioned a while back. Here it is again with nivalis 'Eccuson d'Or'
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That is a good return for 'Primrose Warburg'
Lastly from me is a stable 4 petalled plicatus ex Robin Hall's garden
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Even I can appresiate the pictures and see that they are different and with a 4 petald one it is even easier :)
Thanks for posting and do not let the galantophobes get You to much down but then You seem to give as good as You take ;)
Not that many doubles. Is that due to them being fewer or not as interesting to the people here with white fever?
I like the double nivalis since it really make the plant look white and almost shines when it is in woodland compared with the normal one.
Joakim
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Aw shucks. All these snowdrops I don't have. :( I put in a bid for South Hayes last year, much against my better judgement, and other people's advice (a fool and his money....my granddad would be turning in his grave), and have no idea how far off the mark I was!?
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I went to the RHS show in London yesterday and admired the all-snowdrop display mounted by Foxgrove Nurseries. They had a pot of Galanthus South Hayes (below) although the markings don't seem to be as strong as on the photo posted by Ian McEnery on page 12. I do rather covet this snowdrop - I think because it is so strikingly different. I presume that if I ever saw it on sale I would not be able to afford it but I hope one day I will be able to do a swap. I think it is a good idea to be generous with the snowdrops you possess because if one day your prized clump goes to meet its maker there is some chance the friend you gave one to will still have some and be able to return the favour.
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Alan,
Couldn't agree with you more. There is a saying attributed to Lady Moore, wife of Sir Frederick Moore, former Curator of the Botanic Gardens, Glasnevin, Dublin which goes, 'The best way to keep a plant is to give it away.' The meaning is just as you have said: in the case of loss in your own garden, there will be a source of a replacement available to you.
Paddy
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Ian,
That 'Primrose Warburg' is just beautiful. A great clump, indeed.
'Gold Shield' is completely new to me Mark, a very nice one indeed. 'Pyramid' is very light and elegant, holds itself very nicely.
Paddy
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yes they are looking poor. I heard at the Gala that 'South Hayes' loses the green streak if twin scaled too much.
Anthony did you bid for North Green's snowdrops? They went for stupid money last year. It was discussed at the post Gala dinner. A few of each were available last year. One person paid over £100 each for each one listed. The next came in around £80 each. This bidding only proves to suppliers that people are willing to pay big money and that is why this year many snowdrops are over £35/£40 each. 'Trym' sold on Ebay last week for over £60. That's £35 over what it normally goes for.
Paddy I dont know how to spell ecouson d'or so called it gold shield for my own reference
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I give up Paddy, is it real? If not you are better at the CAD stuff than I am!
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Alan you are right this plant is nothing like the plant I saw. There were many bulbs in this clump but the whole thing was a bit dishevelled due to very bad weather (heavy snowfollowed by rain) so I sought out a flower that looked half decent but the makings I saw were almost as if it had been painted on heavily with green gloss paint on all flowers. Mark maybe right about excessive propagation or it maybe something else
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This South Hayes flower, is it meant to look a bit like Trym, or not?
Paddy, that streaky creature looks like it needs a tonic.
Ian, i am surpirsed that the ( yes, Lovely) Primrose Warburg is increasing so well. I believed that the yellows tended to be rather weak of constitution. Nice to See this one is doing so well for you. Fine, upstanding flower, a fitting remembrance of that lady.
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Just pinched this photo from the RHS website ( from a London show in 2003) ; this shows G. South Hayes and says " the outer tepals turn outwards, like a lampshade, and are streaked with green"
[attach=1]
Looks more like Ian's than Alan's one from London Show, doesn't it? Do we need the REAL South Hayes to stand up? And WHY do I care??
Here, for comparison, is Ian McE's South Hayes
[attachthumb=2]
The one from the London show from Alan has a more ordinary snowie shape, never mind the markings.
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Yep Maggi no one more surprised than me. I'm more likely to kill em - now I have bragged about this one it is sure to get some awful disease. What I didn't show was Wendy's Gold which I only had one bulb and a few offsets where the main bulb has rotted. As the outside of the bulb had a hole in it and the inside was rotten I'm not sure whether it was botrytis or a critter. Would welcome any views from our experts.
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Hi Anne,
Yes, the 'S. Arnott' striped is real but...as with the ladies - augmented.
I was doing a little experiment with the kids in school to show how plants take up food: white carnations standing in variously coloured glasses of water; the flowers take up the coloured water and the petals change to that colour. So, a few 'S. Arnott' were added to the pot and ... there you have it.
(By the way, a carnation with its stem carefully split up the centre and each half in a different colour dye give a very interesting bi-coloured flower - an interesting snowdrop on the way, blue and red, perhaps?)
I'm sure I could advertise the striped 'S. Arnott' for sale, with the usual proviso that it takes a while to settle down to its usual colouration after being moved and I could have my fortune made before the ruse was discovered. By then I would be in the Bahamas or some such sunny refuge.
Ian's 'Primrose Warburg' is really good. As Maggi said, the yellows especially the Sandersii group is reputed to be weak in cultivation. This makes Ian's all the more admirable.
Aren't the prices quoted from the snowdrop gala by Mark above outrageous. Those who pay such prices are the truly obsessed, as Ian says. They would certainly be beyond what I would be willing to pay for any snowdrop, though, if it were jewel encrusted white gold, I might consider it.
Paddy
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if it were jewel encrusted white gold, I might consider it.
And what a lovely gift that would make for Mary, who started off your snowie collection in the first place!
PS I do not condone the brutalising of innocent flowers for your class lessons. Goodness me, you'l be dissecting frogs next :P
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Maggi the shape could change as the flower develops and as I had not seen this before I only have this experience of the plant. I did however remark that I thought it had the shape of Trym at the time.
What I can say is the garden where I saw this has over 500 different named cultivars and is owned by one the cognoscenti it seems likely that this one is the real thing. The question is, is it lovely or a novelty? Answers on a postcard please
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Paddy, do you think I could get away with "doctoring" a few flowers to take to Dunblane, or might too many folk be reading this? Could really set a cat among the pigeons, though, eh? !!
Ian, there's changing shape and there's changing shape !! I think yours looks more kosher. Not that i have the faintest skill in such matters! It has always been one of my mottoes that lack of knowledge need not stop one expressing an opinion!!
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Ian,
As the outside of the bulb had a hole in it and the inside was rotten I'm not sure whether it was botrytis or a critter.
remember my MAIN motto, "there's often a clue".... if there's a hole I would guess you've had a hungry slug in there.
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Maggi,
I should have had this special snowdrop mounted on a ring and ready to present for Valentine's Day.
Paddy
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Might I suggest a pendant, rather than a ring, easier to wear ALL the time!
[attach=1]
It's never too late, Paddy!
[attach=2]
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I think it's well known that if a Narcissus fly grub eats the inside of a large bulb there is enough of the plate left for it to produce daughter bulbs but I wouldnt have thought they would flower in one year. It is possible they were already well advanced within the larger bulb. I once had a badly damaged 'St Anne's' sold to me mail order that had lots of smaller bulbs within
If people are willing to spend silly money those producing bulbs will increase their prices. Now if everyone could get together to agree not to buy any mail order bulbs for one year!!
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Mark now what a good idea perhaps we could all do some swapping which would make it very much cheaper and enjoyable
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DO NOT DISPAIR, Ian.
The two pictures below show my Wendy's Gold on 20th February 2004 (a year after I bought a single flowering bulb) and in January of 2007. In 2004 it produced barely a shoot but there were at least signs of life - nature's twin-scaling. In 2007 it is back to full health and I have three more small offsets growing elsewhere.
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Impressive recovery, Alan. Good to see the extent of the damage but that find there is still life inside!
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I found similar results to Ian while investigating a tray of potted snowdrops that hadn't showed this week. Alongside the empty bulb in many pots was a fat greyish grub about 10-12mm long - presumably the Narcissus fly larva/pupa. The motto is to bin any compost from affected pots unless you are very good at picking through to find the beasties.
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sounds like the Narciisus fly grub. I heard last weekend that SuSCon Green is supposed to help kill the grubs while travelling towards the bulbs. The grub has to pupate before emerging in late May as an adult
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Mark, SuScon Green isn't readily available to gardeners.
When we get chewed bulbs, mostly in the garden, there is usually a slug or two, or a large snail, in close proximity.. If we are sorting any compost from pots that have vineweevils, for example, we spread it out on a large aluminium bakers' tray and lay it somewhere for a while to let the Robins and the Blackbirds have a pick through it for beasties: they are more thorough cleaners than we are!
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yes slugs do damage bulbs but I think that hole was caused by damage and/or rot
Hello Andy! A member for a month now yet nothing said
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I have replanted the bulb after it underwent major surgery and it does have a shoot but unfortunately there were no signs of root so not a lot of hope. Still I have 3 healthy bits and this hopefully will eventually form a clump. Thats gardening (and pilgrims progress)
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Hello to everybody.
I would like to post my few pics too wild grown from region Istanbul/TR. just the last one is garden grown.
if there are some miss name please you can corrrect. I have tryed to find by myself.
regards...
Galanthus nivalis
last, Galanthus plicatus byzantinus
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the last one isnt a plicatus but may be G. elwesii elwesii but looks more like fosteri
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hello Mark , i don't think the leaves look very fosteri....
It was great to meet you at the Gala! you're one of the great Galanthophiles, ssp. very friendly galanthophiles :)
Best wishes,
Wim
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Here my plant of G Plicatus Percy Piction. Long pedicels like Magnet but bigger
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Mark here at the Young's again!
Wim thanks for the comment. I think I'll stick with elwesii
So I'm a great friendly Galanthophile :)
See, turn your back for two seconds and these gallumphing galanthophiles are sneaking in ! M
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Back to South Hayes, I discovered I had some before and after pictures myself. These are of the Foxgrove Nurseries display of Galanthus South Hayes in 2003 and 2007. Apologies that my camera tends to focus on the background but I think you can still see the difference and it does seem to be losing its markings, as Mark suggested. Can twin-scaling really have a bad effect like this or have they simply made a mistake by propagating from an inferior specimen whilst selling the good ones?
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Hi Mark.
If the last one is not plicatus so It is a foreign sipecies for my region but another regions have that by name elwesii with wery large and short leaves.
I think this plants like very much my area. It is very easy to see them under the woods.
This region there are four sipecies known in the wild.
Galanthus gracilis
Galanthus nivalis ssp. nivalis
Galanthus nivalis ssp. cilicicus
Galanthus plicatus ssp. byzantinus
I had some nice samples. I would like to know correct name. If you can give some hints..
Thank you in advance...
Here are some photos without name..
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tough question without the leaves but here goes
The first may be plicatus byzantinus
The third looks like gracilis
The fifth show plication on the leaves