Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Alan_b on February 01, 2018, 08:45:13 AM
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Spot the interloper.
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Yes, its my first ever "Trym seedling".
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It looks quite pretty but much like all the others.
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Alan, what are the others? G. plicatus anything?
Nice to have that happen. I’m waiting for a couple of seedlings to flower to see if earlier promise confirmed. Not holding my breath though.
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David, the surrounding snowdrops are (mostly) descendants or clones of ones that I was allowed to collect from my local churchyard in 2003 (although there is something else sandwiched in there too). Back in those days when I knew very little about snowdrops but I was attracted to these ones by their broad leaves but relatively short stature at flowering time. They proved to be vigorous and need lifting and dividing every 3 or 4 years to prevent overcrowding. They serve as my snowdrop pioneer; I plant them in new beds in the garden to see if they will grow; perhaps their roots carry some beneficial fungus, who knows? They seem to be mainly plicatus but they had the time and opportunity to incorporate some nivalis genes before I got them. They occasionally produce flowers with two receptacles fused together and extra petals but it's too infrequent to be noteworthy. They also need quite warm temperatures to open so mostly appear as drops. No name.
Ideally the seedling would have the vigour of its (presumed) mother but that remains to be seen. It seems to have lost the broad leaves that she has.
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I have some plicatus which I bought at a neighbor’s gate down the road about seven years ago. They were labelled as subsp. Byzantinus but the inner segment mark shows them to be subsp. plicatus. They are very vigorous
and I often move them to unpromising place where they always thrive.
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I’m hoping this photo is attached. These are in a half barrel in their third year with the other stuff.
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This morning's patrol in bright sunshine and enjoying the return of the master.
The very best virescent, in my view, Morgana is back. Ticks all the boxes of beauty, robustness in the garden and rapid bulking. All three of my clumps are increasing well. One bulb I lifted in the summer was the size of a snooker ball. I also understand that Andy Byfield will have some later in the year. Not to be missed.
A second virescent from Andy as a contrast, Andrea's Fault. Very different, particularly the deepness of the inner green. If this turns out to be as garden worthy and robust as Morgana this could, supplant it in my view.
Two key virescent drops for the collectors.
Another of Andy's this time a green tip, Goatee Green Tips. Lovely shape to this and very distinctive.
Finally, another of Andy's Whiter Than White. I love this drop, brilliant white with very deep green markings. Garden hardy and increases well.
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Since you mention him, a reminder that Andy Byfield will be giving a talk entitled "Into Colchis on the Trail of Wild Snowdrops" at the AGS event at Lilleshall this coming Saturday (3rd February). According to the AGS web site there are still a few tickets remaining for this event.
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Hi Folks,
Here is an 'ordinary' sandersii looking good in this morning's sunshine...
It is a better yellow than some of the 'premium' ones!
It'll need to be lifted this year, far too crowded!!
Tim DH
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You’re right on all counts Tim. I grow ‘Ray Cobb’, ‘Lowick’ and ordinary ‘sandersii’ and, to be honest...
They’re all fairly vigorous though.
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Since you mention him, a reminder that Andy Byfield will be giving a talk entitled "Into Colchis on the Trail of Wild Snowdrops" at the AGS event at Lilleshall this coming Saturday (3rd February). According to the AGS web site there are still a few tickets remaining for this event.
I’m planning to go to this. Just raided the ATM!
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The sun certainly enhances the yellows - here's Dryad Gold Sovereign basking. I wasn't basking at that temperature!
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It is a better yellow than some of the 'premium' ones!
Since you mention this, a reminder that David MacLennan will be giving a talk entitled "Holding a National Snowdrop Collection" at the AGS event at Lilleshall this coming Saturday (3rd February). I am reliably informed that one topic he will cover is the different colouration of different yellow snowdrops. Tickets still available.
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In contrast, under glass the yellows can look greener. Here's a seedling from Spindlestone Surprise x Wendy's Gold. I'll plant it out and see what it's like in the open.
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Snowdrops with eyes crop up in all sorts of crosses - this little chap flowered today.
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Does anyone know anything about Richard Nutt's Green-leaved hybrid (such as a snappier name) other than what is in The Book? It is apparently thought to be a hybrid between woronowii and rizehensis.
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I grow it and have chipped it. It’s vigorous and attractive. I got it from Colesborne. No other name as far as I know. Richard Nutt presumably knew what he was growing?
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Snowdrops with eyes crop up in all sorts of crosses....
But I'm still waiting for a snowdrop where the 'face' with eyes is on the outer petals and so clearly visible at all times. Perhaps you would like to take a stab at breeding that one, Anne?
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I've not started a special thread about it this year... but I'm still on the look out for truly large drops.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=14967.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=14967.0)
Fred's Giant received a few favourable mentions in years past, so I sourced it last year from a couple of suppliers.
One of them was the most miserable specimen I have ever received! That's one list I never need to read again!!
Here is a first flower on the other. The petals are only 33mm long, tho' it is nice & tall at 27cms. Hopefully it will excel next year.
Tim DH
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But I'm still waiting for a snowdrop where the 'face' with eyes is on the outer petals and so clearly visible at all times. Perhaps you would like to take a stab at breeding that one, Anne?
In the meantime, Alan, you might be content with 'Green Eyes', maybe, since the 2 eyes remain visible even when the drop is closed. I find it gives it a kind of ghostly look... ;o)
http://www.gapphotos.com/images/LargeWebPreview/0514/0514248.jpg (http://www.gapphotos.com/images/LargeWebPreview/0514/0514248.jpg)
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But I'm still waiting for a snowdrop where the 'face' with eyes is on the outer petals and so clearly visible at all times. Perhaps you would like to take a stab at breeding that one, Anne?
I'm trying!
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In the meantime, Alan, you might be content with 'Green Eyes', maybe, since the 2 eyes remain visible even when the drop is closed. I find it gives it a kind of ghostly look... ;o)
http://www.gapphotos.com/images/LargeWebPreview/0514/0514248.jpg (http://www.gapphotos.com/images/LargeWebPreview/0514/0514248.jpg)
I would be very content with' Green Eyes'; I was admiring it on several of the sales tables last Saturday. But I had bought a few snowdrops already so in the end I decided to leave that one for another time.
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I'm trying!
That's not far off, is it Anne. Not quite sure what to make of that facial expression.
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That's not far off, is it Anne. Not quite sure what to make of that facial expression.
Frankensteinish? :P
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Today I recieved a fine snowdrop - pot with Galanthus plicathus "from Yalta 1980".
A very clear flower and a healthy stronggrowing plant! Thank You, dear visitor!
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Galanthus artjuschenkoae (syn. Galanthus transcaucasicus).
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Galanthus 'One Drop or Two' (only one!)
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In the meantime, Alan, you might be content with 'Green Eyes', maybe, since the 2 eyes remain visible even when the drop is closed. I find it gives it a kind of ghostly look... ;o)
http://www.gapphotos.com/images/LargeWebPreview/0514/0514248.jpg (http://www.gapphotos.com/images/LargeWebPreview/0514/0514248.jpg)
Certainly I´d be content with ´Green Eyes´, as this selection features two of my favourite interests: snowdrops with "eyes" and snowdrops with green leaves. Indeed the eyes are very special, and the elegant shape of the flowers make it all the more desirable!
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Quite a long time ago now I found a snowdrop with green leaves; it was a nivalis so they weren't supposed to be that colour. This has given me a particular interest in snowdrops with unusual green leaves - and I like snowdrops with eyes too. So we like alike, Mariette.
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Hi - can anyone help me regarding a Galanthus I was given as an extra ebay purchase last year? The seller claims it is named “Holbear” but I am unable to find this in any book or as a Google search.
Cheers. Susan H
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I was very pleased to see this clump of Galanthus 'Fred's Giant'. There were three clumps by the side of the track leading into the wood beside the house. The bulbs were well down because my husband kept dumping grass mowings on them. When I knew the wood was going to be thinned I managed to dig up one clump and replant them. The soil on that side was moved when the contractor widened the track so thought the other two clumps were lost. The third one may yet reappear.[attachimg=1]
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Three of of my trym seedlings flowering for the first time and all so very different! With the weather as miserable as it is I had to bring them in so I could see them open and my favourite is the one on the left. It has a solid green inner and the outers are very rounded with the entire edge rolled upwards. The middle one is tiny with the inner petals at 6 mm and outers at just 7mm and after 5 hours of being inside refused to open so you dont get to see the inner mark ☹ On the right one...each of the outers had a different mark.
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Three of of my trym seedlings flowering for the first time and all so very different! With the weather as miserable as it is I had to bring them in so I could see them open and my favourite is the one on the left. It has a solid green inner and the outers are very rounded with the entire edge rolled upwards. The middle one is tiny with the inner petals at 6 mm and outers at just 7mm and after 5 hours of being inside refused to open so you dont get to see the inner mark ☹ On the right one...each of the outers had a different mark.
it's good fun growing your own seedlings isn't it? More people should try it - nothing like seeing that new flower for the first time!
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Oh yes! 😁 These particular ones were seeds collected from tryms of a natural cross so didn't know what I'd get! But I have my own crosses in the pipe line. Time will tell if they get close to what I'm after.
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After surprising snowfall during the night, I found some fine Winter - Snowdrop - Motives:
1. - snow covered all flowers
2. - after two hours sunshine the E. elwesiis stands up!
3. - snowdrops from Anglesey Abbey with good conditions to resist the snow
4. - Elwes snowdrops flowers direct out of snow!
5. - colours of comming spring!
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Another snowdrop from the MacLennan's display at the AGS event. The leaves look very distinctively furled and upright but do they stay this way or turn normal later?
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I don't recall ever coming across this one before. The leaves lie so flat you might imagine it was rizehensis cross, but no mention of that.
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One for Ingrid:
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And one for me because I saw it growing in-situ last year:
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I think the label went a bit wrong on this one, koenianus isn't it? I'm reliably informed that it's me that's wrong: "koenenianus" it is. I did not remember the name being that much of a mouthful. But look at those groovy leaves.
Edit: Sorry, shrunken to fit the SRGC image size restriction, you cannot see the grooves on the leaves in the version of the photo above. here we are:
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I believe the spelling in the pot is correct and is on the label in my pot.
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I spotted G.gracilis ‘Andreas Fault’ and was instantly captivated. Couldn’t find one to buy though. Matt Bishop had an ikariae selection called ‘Alexandrite’which was equally captivating but I’d spent my self imposed budget by then. Kept going back - there was only one - but resisted. Not sure if that’s good or bad!
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I spotted G.gracilis ‘Andreas Fault’ and was instantly captivated. Couldn’t find one to buy though.
It has only been publicly offered for sale once on Ebay a few years back for £511, it is still the second highest price for a non-yellow drop from memory.
It is lovely though.
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I believe the spelling in the pot is correct and is on the label in my pot.
Yes - Galanthus koenenianus Lobin, C.D.Brickell & A.P.Davis
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Definite green theme to this morning's patrol!
First Pearl Drops from Michael Broadhurst, a lovely drop that has clumped up rapidly and now makes a great display in the garden. Well worth relieving him and Ann of one if they have any available.
Next Verdigris, again a good clump plant with very distinctive markings.
Then Caryl Baron, being menaced by the 'weed' Philippe Andre Meyer in the background.
Selina Cords, diminutive and lovely.
Peardrop, I do like this variety, it has a crispness about the flower and markings.
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Peardrop - I'm undecided about 'drops with long claws - not my favourites, for the most part.
I do like the ( confusingly named !) Pearl Drops though - a most elegant flower.
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Recently acquired, the substantial Galanthus elwesii 'Marjorie Brown'.
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Some yellows
First, ‘Carolyn Elwes’. Then’Golden Promise’. Finally, ‘Belvedere Gold’.
Thanks for sorting them Maggi.
The order now is Belvedere Gold, Golden Promise then Carolyn Elwes.
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David, have you got these the right way round?
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Another snowdrop from the MacLennan's display at the AGS event. The leaves look very distinctively furled and upright but do they stay this way or turn normal later?
(Attachment Link)
This is interesting, as I´ve got two unidentfied snowdrops with very upright and furled leaves at flowering - time. Both came to me as G. elwesii, one I showed in January , # 110. The other popped up somewhat later. Once I read that G. woronowii has broader and longer leaves where populations grow nearer to the coast, whereas the leaves of G. woronowii growing in colder parts uphill tend to be smaller and narrower. I wonder , how narrow the leaves of the latter may be.
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Today I received Joe Sharman´s list. He offers G. plicatus ´Praying Mantis´, does anybody know this? Johan Mens selected ´Mantis´, which is a G. nivalis var. scharlockii, I think.
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David, have you got these the right way round?
They are in the order(I think) they were first posted before I turned them the right way up, Steve - Have I got it wrong ?
Some yellows
First, ‘Carolyn Elwes’. Then’Golden Promise’. Finally, ‘Belvedere Gold’.
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Thanks for sorting them Maggi.
The order now is Belvedere Gold, Golden Promise then Carolyn Elwes.
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Thanks David - sorry for getting confused! (It happens all the time !)
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Once I read that G. woronowii has broader and longer leaves where populations grow nearer to the coast, whereas the leaves of G. woronowii growing in colder parts uphill tend to be smaller and narrower. I wonder , how narrow the leaves of the latter may be.
But woronowii does not have a basal mark on the inner petals as those ones do. I think you need to grwo them on and see how they behave over a few years.
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I'd be interested in seeing Joe Sharman's list.... The most recent one on the Monksilver website seems to be 2016!
Tim DH
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But woronowii does not have a basal mark on the inner petals as those ones do. I think you need to grwo them on and see how they behave over a few years.
Of course You´re right, and that´s what I´m going to do. Your picture just reminded me of the fact, that the common forms of species , which are widespread in cultivation, often give a wrong impression of the possible variations. When I discovered these G. nivalis in 2 local woods, a well-known German collector stated that they must be hybrids with G. elwesii, whereas a British specialist judged them to be plain G. nivalis.
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In fairness to collectors and specialists, it is often quite difficult to make a good judgement from photographs, much easier if you have the plant in front of you. I have probably looked at over ten thousand examples of Galanthus nivalis for every one example Galanthus woronowii that I have seen. Basal marks on the inner petals of Galanthus nivalis (like those in your photograph) are rare in my area but not impossible to find. I have no idea if the same is true for woronowii because I haven't seen enough.
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Anybody ever encountered a virescent ipoc? This is about as green as I've seen! Hopefully we'll have it available next season. Currently sorting out proper registration.
Outer segments
Inner segments
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Outer segments on left (upper and lower faces), inner segments on right (upper and lower faces)
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My word Anne, you are determined to keep us in a state of excitement with these 'drops!
Very green and very shapely - I find myself surprised to say that with an ovary that shape I hope that bodes well for seed set!
Off now to lie down with some chocolate to recover my equilibrium!
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A very exciting development Anne, I'd like a poc with good green marks on the outers too if you can manage it!
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How much greener do you want, Brian?
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Very nice. I imagine they look fantastic in a clump. Erm... how much would a clump cost Anne?
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But I'm still waiting for a snowdrop where the 'face' with eyes is on the outer petals and so clearly visible at all times. Perhaps you would like to take a stab at breeding that one, Anne?
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How about this little beautie!!! 😁😁😁 is this what your after Alan?
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That's it, Shauney, well done! Now all you have to do it get Thompson and Morgan to pay you £10,000 for your stock and market it as 'the snowdrop with a face'. Maybe Ingrid can advise as marketing is her thing?
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Cute one, Shauney!
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How much greener do you want, Brian?
Sorry Anne that was unclear wasn't it, I should have said a nice full poc (like E A Bowles for example) with green marks on all tepals rather than completely green like your lovely one.
By the way I moved 'Dryad Gold Sovereign' on your recommendation and it has made all the difference, fantastic drop with super colour, much better than last year and really shows it's character, thank you.
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Ah - I'll get there in the end - poc/ipoc..... ::)
Maybe Maggi and Ian can have a go, I know they have some green tipped pocs?
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But I'm still waiting for a snowdrop where the 'face' with eyes is on the outer petals and so clearly visible at all times. Perhaps you would like to take a stab at breeding that one, Anne?
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How about this little beautie!!! 😁😁😁 is this what your after Alan?
Nice one, Shauney!
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Thanks Alan, Maggi and Anne. It is nice isn't it! There are three bulbs, the best was the one I posted earlier and the the other two have a mixture of either one eye, one dark with one light or two faint eyes. Some more photos. ( sorry about the quality but I had to really crop them to get them to a postable size! )
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Sorry once again about the quality.
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Named varieties in the garden.
1) S Arnott.
2) Helen Tomlinson.
3) Bungee.
Arrrh! Sorry pic size is too big.
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Hear from Olive Mason in this 'rare plant of the month' feature from the Hardy Plant Society by Lucy ...
https://plantheritage.wordpress.com/2018/02/06/rare-plant-of-the-month-february-2018/
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Hear from Olive Mason in this 'rare plant of the month' feature from the Hardy Plant Society by Lucy ...
...Pitman. She did not give her full name but it would be Lucy Pitman who wrote the feature.
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Sorry once again about the quality.
Hallo Shauny, Your new created snowdrop with the outher face is fantastic and will be go to a great future!
Here in germany is Carneval-Saison and for this I "created" a funny hybride "ICEBLUE SNOWDROP" (with a snowdrop flower and blue leaves from a delphinium flower! :-) )
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Thanks Harald-Alex. It's early days yet as it's the first time it's flowered and I'll have to wait until next year and hope it stays the same but if it does prove to be stable then I guess the next thing would to try and produce a flower with a face on both the inside and outside. ( Now that really would be something! ) 😁
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I guess the next thing would to try and produce a flower with a face on both the inside and outside. ( Now that really would be something! ) 😁
How about a smiley face on the outer and grumpy on the inner :) >:(
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How about a smiley face on the outer and grumpy on the inner :) >:(
No problem!!! Would anyone like a drop with a different expression on each petal while I'm at it? ☺☹😉😲😞😯
Choosing a name for it would be easy ( Emoji )
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An interesting nivalis find today. Shame that one of the outers wasn't quite perfect but still a nice find.
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We have winter with snow and frosts till - 10°C during the nights now, but the snowdrops resist this bad weather.
We hope for better weather next week.
Foto 1: - the Elwesii snowdrop flower are more white than the snow!
Foto 2: - the Anglesey Abbey snowdrops covered with the Union Jack!
Foto 3: - Godfrey Owen with the six flowerleaves.
Foto 4: - Diggory, the lampignon-snowdrop!
Foto 5: - a new seedling direct near the warm wall
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They are amazing at coping with low temperatures although snow does give significant insulation. Yesterday was -2C here (I know, but we’re not used to it!) and several snowdrops in the garden were horizontal - leaves and Flowers. Particularly seems to be a characteristic of plicatus which tend to show that feature in their leaves in any case - just an observation.
By the afternoon the greenhouse was too hot and the vents opened for the first time since November although obviously not the first time there had been daytime ventilation. Some of the snowdrops in pots went a bit flaccid. Had to rush about modifying environmental parameters!
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Brief period of sunshine for this morning's patrol amid the rain.
First up, one of Anne Wright's new Dryad Gold series, Dryad Gold Star. I love this variety, diminutive with with a long narrow ovary, a wonderful colour to the inner and slight ribbing on the outers. The leaves are low-lying. Planted amongst others in the Dryad Gold series the size difference is marked The series keeps exceeding my expectations for beauty and they are excellent garden plants.
Next Estonian Spirit Kaina one of the Estonian Spirit series, developed by Taavi Tuulik and obtained from Anne Wright. These varieties have a paler grey green look to them, similar to Ghost. My first thought, with the pale colouration, was that they might be were weak but I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly they are increasing.
Estonian Spirit 2009/CS9 one of the clones discovered in abandoned gardens and woods in Estonia. Again, increasing well and seems robust. Another great addition to the yellows. Also currently available from Anne on Ebay!
Next Chrome Yellow a new one for me and a very welcome addition to my yellows. Lovely clean yellow colour with a delightful shape. Obtained from the Thorps so it will undoubtedly bulk quickly.
Finally, Ecusson D'or' Simon Savage variation. This has clumped very quickly and has lasted well. Still flowering strongly after a number of weeks. For me this performs better in a pot under glass.
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I really like Ecusson D’or. I bought it last year and it didn’t thrive. When I checked in the summer there was no fungus but there were mites and lots of little bulbils. I cleaned it all up and soaked all the samples in a compound pesticide - it may have been Roseclear - and planted them all in a pot. I’m pleased to say that the main bulb has a flower and there are 7/8 smaller bulbs growing with it. So, hopefully, a success ful rescue.
Not so happy about another expensive yellow - Mother Goose. The first one I bought in 2016 and it flowered beautifully - a brilliant yellow orange so I bought another. This year both of them are green. I notice there is some talk about ‘changlings’ in some of the catalogues/websites. I’m not sure about this as a real phenomenon but could be wrong. I just want my Mother Geese to be brilliant yellow again. Any thoughts?
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I thought 'changelings' were supposed to be flowers that changed colour in the same season. This sort of changeling would seem to be the unwelcome kind that the fairies left!
Must have a look at my MG. She's been the right colour for 2 years so far.
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In the oldest place of my snowdropgarden many years G. nivalis and G. elwesii grow together. From the fertile seeds I find yearly new seedlings, select this plantlets and wait for the first flower.
Foto 1. - old snowdrop place with seedlings of G. nivalis, G. elwesii (and hybrids?)
Foto 2. - one of the seedling in flower
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David, I understand that the colour of yellow snowdrops is better when they are grown in soil that is on the acid side. If you're on a slightly alkaline soil it might be worth trying to acidify the area around them.
I also wonder if they might try to produce more chlorophyll, making then more green if they are growing in a shady location?
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Finally, a break in the winter weather in SE Massachusetts, US and the dwarf Hamamelis vernalis 'Quasimodo' is just starting to show as well as a few elwesii opening up today. This is G. e. 'Standing Tall'.
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What size is the " dwarf Hamamelis vernalis 'Quasimodo' ", Rick?
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Finally, a break in the winter weather in SE Massachusetts, US and the dwarf Hamamelis vernalis 'Quasimodo' is just starting to show as well as a few elwesii opening up today. This is G. e. 'Standing Tall'.
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Hallo Rick, wellcome back to the snowdrop saison after the strong winterweather in USA! :-)
I wish You many new snowdrop flowers day by day!
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What size is the " dwarf Hamamelis vernalis 'Quasimodo' ", Rick?
Hey Maggi,
'Quasimodo' is a new add to my garden and is only about 18" tall. I have read where it matures at three to four feet high and wide. Since woody plants keep growing, that may an estimate of size at 10 years. It is known to be quite fragrant.
We need more dwarf shrubs!
Rick
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David, I understand that the colour of yellow snowdrops is better when they are grown in soil that is on the acid side. If you're on a slightly alkaline soil it might be worth trying to acidify the area around them.
I also wonder if they might try to produce more chlorophyll, making then more green if they are growing in a shady location?
Thanks Matt - I can see where you’re coming from but my soil is good for yellows and I grow quite a few. The issue with Mother Goose is that it is unreliably yellow. I was talking to Joe Sharman about this today and he says there are many “changlings” - he prefers to call them ‘Chameleons’ - and that mine will revert to yellow next year. He says that some others revert to green permanently though. I think my concern is that I didn’t know any of this when I was sold the snowdrops and, tbh, I think we should be told these things when dealing with reputable sellers. It is a beautiful yellow though but only when it is!
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Hallo Rick, wellcome back to the snowdrop saison after the strong winterweather in USA! :-)
I wish You many new snowdrop flowers day by day!
Thank you, Harald. I hope there will be many more warmer days to follow this one!
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Thanks Matt - I can see where you’re coming from but my soil is good for yellows and I grow quite a few. The issue with Mother Goose is that it is unreliably yellow. I was talking to Joe Sharman about this today and he says there are many “changlings” - he prefers to call them ‘Chameleons’ - and that mine will revert to yellow next year. He says that some others revert to green permanently though. I think my concern is that I didn’t know any of this when I was sold the snowdrops and, tbh, I think we should be told these things when dealing with reputable sellers. It is a beautiful yellow though but only when it is!
I take your point, David - it seems there are too many cases when such information is not clearly stated - perhaps because " galanthophiles already know these things" - well, they don't! And they do deserve to be told how stable or otherwise a plant may be.
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And they do deserve to be told how stable or otherwise a plant may be.
Absolutely agree - sellers do often point out that Lady Elphinstone is notorious for being green some years but are less likely to mention it with the big money snowdrops...
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If you buy a "new" snowdrop it will most likely be expensive and it most likely won't have been grown in a garden for many years to establish its garden worthiness. If you have a run of luck with a particular plant its weak point may not emerge for some years. Joe Sharman gave a talk on yellow snowdrops yesterday and he ventured an opinion that all the double yellow nivalis snowdrops in circulation are 'Lady Elphinstone', re-discovered and given another name. Recent ones may be yet to misbehave and have a green year.
When you hear talk about "reversion" I think it is important to establish if this is something that happens to a bulb during its lifetime, or to a snowdrop that has been chipped or twin-scaled. it seems to be a phenomenon in chopping a snowdrop bulb into small pieces that not all the pieces always retain all the characteristics of the original bulb. Most snowdrop cultivars chip reliably in this respect but a few do not.
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Not so happy about another expensive yellow - Mother Goose. The first one I bought in 2016 and it flowered beautifully - a brilliant yellow orange so I bought another. This year both of them are green. I just want my Mother Geese to be brilliant yellow again. Any thoughts?
Hi David, I am sorry but not surprised to learn that my heads up to you about the unreliability of Mother Goose from last year has been confirmed. Both mine were yellow last year but have reverted to green this year. I have also checked with a couple of other experienced growers of yellows and they have the same issue.
Thanks Matt - I can see where you’re coming from but my soil is good for yellows and I grow quite a few.
I wouldn't worry about growing conditions, mine (Original 2014 and two smaller replacement bulbs planted 2016) have been grown under a variety of conditions, full sun, acid soil etc, as have others, and this has not impacted results. There has also been a notion that they might 'become more yellow over time'. Sadly, the facts dont support this. Your's, mine and others have started yellow and THEN reverted to green. In addition, when I notified North Green of my original problematic bulb from 2014, so confident were they in it's ability to 'become more yellow', they insisted I dig it up and return it.
I take your point, David - it seems there are too many cases when such information is not clearly stated - perhaps because " galanthophiles already know these things" - well, they don't! And they do deserve to be told how stable or otherwise a plant may be.
Both you, Maggs and Gail are correct, buyers should be given informed consent when making a purchase. I wrote to North Green in February 2016 to inform them that I would expect to see a warning of the possibility of instability in their future catalogues, so that buyers could decide if they wanted to spend a not insignificant sum on taking a risk. No such warning was included in the description of Mother Goose in either the 2017 or 2018 catalogues. I note that your second bulb was purchased in 2017 David and this would have alerted you. One reason why I will not use this supplier again
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I don't disagree with what everyone else has written but is "reversion" quite the right terminology to use? To me it implies a one-way change whereas the problem with 'Lady Elphinstone', 'Mother Goose' and others is that they don't perform reliably. There are quite a few green-tipped snowdrops that don't produce their green tips every year but I have never heard the term 'reversion' used in that context.
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Yes,Alan makes a good point. I just introduced the term “reversion” as a convenient shorthand way of expressing what had happened. Perhaps it’s temporary reversion. If this is a natural phenomenon, and just part of natural variation (after all, this is part of what is so brilliant about Galanthus), that’s fine and those who want it can buy it. But I’m not sure it’s what I want and, as everyone seems to agree, we need to know what we are buying.
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that’s fine and those who want it can buy it. But I’m not sure it’s what I want and, as everyone seems to agree, we need to know what we are buying.
Hi David, I can't get too hung up on the minutiae of diction, I am more a Heavenly Glory rather than a finger kind of girl! The issue as you say is informed consent. Like you, I don't want instability and would not of bought it if I had known.
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Ingrid, I really support your strong stance on this. I have purchased from North Green for three years now and generally been happy (although I have noticed, this morning, a very feeble ’Chatton’ - purchased last year - finally showing itself). I have to admit I will treat this supplier with caution now the reason being that you gave them an opportunity to be up front and they didn’t take it. It just makes me feel suspicious!
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Estonian Spirit Kaina one of the Estonian Spirit series, developed by Taavi Tuulik and obtained from Anne Wright.
Estonian Spirit 2009/CS9 one of the clones discovered in abandoned gardens and woods in Estonia.
Do you or Anne know if these are the same snowdrops which were found by Taavi Tuulik from Hiiumaa and sold by Sulev Savisaar in 2011 with only a plant number (Tuuliku 1,2,3 and so on)?
A friend of mine bought them then, and I got from her Tuuliku 2 and Tuuliku 9. :)
Estonian Spirit is much better name than just a number. :)
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Morning patrol in bright sunshine and a very virescent theme.
First up is Emerald Isle, a very under rated snowdrop in my view with a lovely colour. Some find it difficult, for me here, it is increasing well.
Next, my second clump of Andrea's Fault is flowering! I thought it was only going to increase this year, but it has thrown up a later flower. The more this proves itself to be a good do'er the more it will rival the King in my view!
Finally, the virescent King , in my view, today Morgana still flowering well, My satellite clumps are also about to flower. A joyful snowdrop this and hopefully Andy will have some available soon.
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Morning patrol in bright sunshine and a very virescent theme.
First up is Emerald Isle, a very under rated snowdrop in my view with a lovely colour. Some find it difficult, for me here, it is increasing well.
Next, my second clump of Andrea's Fault is flowering! I thought it was only going to increase this year, but it has thrown up a later flower. The more this proves itself to be a good do'er the more it will rival the King in my view!
Finally, the virescent King , in my view, today Morgana still flowering well, My satellite clumps are also about to flower. A joyful snowdrop this and hopefully Andy will have some available soon.
Hallo blonde Ingrid, with great interest I look for the rich collection of Your snowdropvarieties!
I am lucky, to find sometimes a new Snowdropflower. Today I fond an Elwesii findling with green eyes.(1)
And the poculiforme Anglesey Abbey this year shows the typical white form! (2)
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Some of my flowering plants
1. Lapwing
2. Primrose Warburg
3. Rosemary Burnham
4. Henry's white lady
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A plicatus seedling flowering for the first time with an interesting inner mark and ribbed outers
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That's a very unusual mark on the plicatus, Shauney. If the leaves looked like that I might think that the snowdrop had a virus but with the flower I really don't know what to make of it.
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That's a very unusual mark on the plicatus, Shauney. If the leaves looked like that I might think that the snowdrop had a virus but with the flower I really don't know what to make of it.
As you can see the leaves are showing no signs of anything abnormal so no idea what's going on! But I do like it 😊
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Galanthus elwesii 'Sickle'. Had to dig this up and put it in a pot as it was growing where our new oil tank is scheduled to be installed.
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If you buy a "new" snowdrop it will most likely be expensive and it most likely won't have been grown in a garden for many years to establish its garden worthiness.
That´s part of the problem, I suppose. If a new seedling or find pops up, it´s regularly chipped or twin-scaled before being tested. Therefore, the seller won´t be able to give any informations regarding its reliability. As long as customers are willing to pay high prices for "new" snowdrops, only idealists will test the qualities of their novelties before sharing them with friends or releasing them to the market.
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Do you or Anne know if these are the same snowdrops which were found by Taavi Tuulik from Hiiumaa and sold by Sulev Savisaar in 2011 with only a plant number (Tuuliku 1,2,3 and so on)?
A friend of mine bought them then, and I got from her Tuuliku 2 and Tuuliku 9. :)
Estonian Spirit is much better name than just a number. :)
Hi Leena, I only have Taavi's original numbers. If Sulev Savisaar gave them his own numbers, I have no way of knowing how they relate to the original numbering system. Tuuliku 2 and Tuuliku 9 might be the ones Taavi calls 2009/CS2 and 2009/CS9. I hope this helps.
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A couple of interesting finds from two different gardens.
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I like the twin. We’re there lots of each type or just odd ones?
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This morning's patrol, once again in bright sunshine.
First up an absolutely stunning new addition to the yellows, Golden Promise from Ian Christie. This one goes straight into the Tier 1 yellow category, despite Ian telling me it will improve!! A lovely yellow colour and a beautiful shape. I had heard great things about this snowdrop and they were under-called. A worthy addition to Ian's excellent range.
Next up Spetchley Yellow, new for me, a gift from a friend who sent me several bulbs, so the rapid clump is not my doing. It is a lovey yellow.
Sarah Dumont continues to add to the delightful yellow colour in the bed and is increasing well.
Next, Andy Byfield's Whiter Than White. This has a brilliant white coloration with wonderful dark green inner markings. It has bulked quickly in a pot and the ground showing it is an excellent plant under all conditions.
Finally, Hughes Emerald, still going strong and providing an amazing spectacle in the garden. It has bulked to the point that it will certainly need cutting out of the pot.
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The one in pics 1 and 2 was just one flowering bulb and pics 3 and 4 there were 3 bulbs but only one was flowering.
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The one in pics 1 and 2 was just one flowering bulb and pics 3 and 4 there were 3 bulbs but only one was flowering.
Sorry not to be clear. I meant 3/4. 1/2 looks like two scapes which have fused. I have an Agapanthus which does this reliably every year. Nature or nurture?
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Today after the frost I registred many new seedling under the left flower of an Elwesii snowdrop, this strain seems to be very fertile (Foto 1). What looks like gras near to the Eranthis, this are many fresh geminated galanthus seedlings.
In the next foto I compare my biggest Elwesii flowers with the normale of Galanthus nivalis (Foto 2)
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I like that flying flock of Hughes Emerald.
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Galanthus 'Desdamona' is bulking up nicely.
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I hate to be a stickler for detail but we established without a shadow of a doubt in January that the correct name is 'Emerald Hughes' and not 'Hughes Emerald'. See http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=15937.msg386247#msg386247 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=15937.msg386247#msg386247) . Glen Chantry had corrected their nomenclature in time for the first sale of this year.
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I hate to be a stickler for detail but we established without a shadow of a doubt in January that the correct name is 'Emerald Hughes' and not 'Hughes Emerald'. See http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=15937.msg386247#msg386247 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=15937.msg386247#msg386247) . Glen Chantry had corrected their nomenclature in time for the first sale of this year.
Not sure about that - Chris Sanham recorded the conversations he had with the NZ Nursery in 2006 to call it Hughes Emerald. Worth checking back on that, I think.
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Sorry not to be clear. I meant 3/4. 1/2 looks like two scapes which have fused. I have an Agapanthus which does this reliably every year. Nature or nurture?
No probs David. Your correct! In pics 1 and 2 the two scapes have fused together. The other one has just one scape. It would be nice if it proves to be stable but I'm not holding my breath! I found a post from March 2016 #182 which shows magnet doing the same thing. Presumably that plant only done it the once as I can't see anything about it from 2017.
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Quote from Matt Bishop : First ever listing by Johan Mens' on eBay of a member of the G. nivalis Belle Etoiles Group, 'Lange Wapper'. Follow the link below. DEFINITELY NOT TO BE MISSED.
https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Galanthus-nivalis-Lange-Wapper/183063512064?hash=item2a9f6f8400%3Ag%3Act4AAOSw%7Eo5aeECY (https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Galanthus-nivalis-Lange-Wapper/183063512064?hash=item2a9f6f8400%3Ag%3Act4AAOSw%7Eo5aeECY)
Johan Mens comments : Thanks Matt ! It has been trialled for years in rather poor soil and even there it was always 30+ cm High. So far my highest in the true Belles Etoiles section.
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That´s part of the problem, I suppose. If a new seedling or find pops up, it´s regularly chipped or twin-scaled before being tested. Therefore, the seller won´t be able to give any informations regarding its reliability. As long as customers are willing to pay high prices for "new" snowdrops, only idealists will test the qualities of their novelties before sharing them with friends or releasing them to the market.
Hi Mariette, if one wants to test plants , it can take a lot of years to do it well. I have quite some tested now, but many on a more sandy soil... when a range of them go to a goad loamy soil, some really transform and become substantially better. Or the type of green can get different, darker, more extended etc... Especially regarding to scharlockii : a good range of them need some adaptation to the new home. When settled, their performance will get to full potential.
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Not sure about that - Chris Sanham recorded the conversations he had with the NZ Nursery in 2006 to call it Hughes Emerald. Worth checking back on that, I think.
Freda Cox states that it is also known by Hughes Emerald in the UK. Good enough for me and I will continue to use Hughes Emerald.
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Hi Maggi, your posting just crossed my posting, that plant is an example. It has been performing thus on thin sandy soil, beeing robust there and really high; But I wonder now how it will look on much better soilconditions, like a good loamy soil, the same ... or even improved... the future will tell. It is the highest in the Belles Etoiles group for now. Thanks for the posting !!
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It does look well, Johan - and many people prefer the bigger, bolder snowdrops - good luck with the sale!
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It does look well, Johan - and many people prefer the bigger, bolder snowdrops - good luck with the sale!
Thanks, yes many people do go for the large ones, but there are many fine small flowered ones too.
I will have too look again how to post pictures over here (between the tags).
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(http://)small flowered but beautiful perfect poculiform
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same one
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(http://)small flowered but beautiful perfect poculiform
That's a nice looking plant! Does it perform well and have you named it yet?
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Freda Cox states that it is also known by Hughes Emerald in the UK. Good enough for me and I will continue to use Hughes Emerald.
Freda Cox is 100% correct. But the place where it came from called it 'Emerald Hughes' (after discovering that their first choice, 'Emerald', was already in use). If that's what they want it to be called, then I will respect their wishes.
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(http://)small flowered but beautiful perfect poculiform
That is very pretty! I really like the small-flowered plants, and a well-balanced whole plant is more important than just flower size.
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... First ever listing by Johan Mens' on eBay of a member of the G. nivalis Belle Etoiles Group, 'Lange Wapper'...
We first encountered 'Belle Etoiles' in 2007, I believe. I think the first hint is here http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=300.msg8064#msg8064 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=300.msg8064#msg8064) then Johan continues with further posts and a picture of the actual 'Belle Etoiles' shown a few pages later. I myself don't know for certain what "Belle Etoiles Group" constitutes; are they all poculiform and green-tipped?
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Tuuliku 2 and Tuuliku 9 might be the ones Taavi calls 2009/CS2 and 2009/CS9. I hope this helps.
It does, thank you so much Anne! :)
I will post pictures of them later in spring (after all the snow melts).
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a well-balanced whole plant is more important than just flower size.
I agree. Though I am more partial to bigger plants, I also like small ones when the flowers are in proportion to the leaves, and they can make a lovely small clump. I have one strain of G.nivalis which has very small flowers compared to the leaves, normal nivalis looks much better.
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That's a nice looking plant! Does it perform well and have you named it yet?
Thanks !, Yes it is a good grower, and baptized 'Parfetta'. You just have to like small flowered besides the large ones.
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That is very pretty! I really like the small-flowered plants, and a well-balanced whole plant is more important than just flower size.
Thanks, it is not a low growing plant, but pretty as is. And the flowers are true poculiform.
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We first encountered 'Belle Etoiles' in 2007, I believe. I think the first hint is here http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=300.msg8064#msg8064 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=300.msg8064#msg8064) then Johan continues with further posts and a picture of the actual 'Belle Etoiles' shown a few pages later. I myself don't know for certain what "Belle Etoiles Group" constitutes; are they all poculiform and green-tipped?
Belles Etoiles Group are all poculiform and green tipped as you say, yes. The one you mention is the first in the group named as 'Belles Etoiles' . Afterwards others were selected that then were grouped in a section: Belles Etoiles Group as proposed by Matt. Higher ones, bigger ones, larger tips, etc... Lange Wapper is the highest so far.
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The carpet of Galanthus in the garden is since one week again in full splendor. The warm month of January has speeded them up.
but I have a question. The clumps of Galanthus growing near the spruce trees seem to shrink every year (from left on the bedroom view pic). Could it be that the needles falling from the trees have made the soil too acidic ? And would it help then to sprinkle some lime on the soil. I don't think shade is an issue, I have many clumps prospering in deeper shaded areas of the garden, but there they do not grow under conifers. Your advise will be much appreciated.
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I can't answer about spruce trees, but I just have to say that I love that last picture where your cat is walking among snowdrops. :)
Animals find their way around plants, and don't walk on them.
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Oh! That's a cat? I thought it was a black panther!
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Oh! That's a cat? I thought it was a black panther!
If you look at my profile picture, the kitten on my shoulder, it's the same cat but about 7 year older now. He walks around the snowdrops but he also loves to do his need in freshly planted flower pots :-(
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A nice rounded shaped nivalis flower with lovely ribbed outers. It's hard to show these in the pics and they look much better in real life. ( Luckily the birds didn't eat all the flowers before I discovered it! )
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The carpet of Galanthus in the garden is since one week again in full splendor. The warm month of January has speeded them up.
but I have a question. The clumps of Galanthus growing near the spruce trees seem to shrink every year (from left on the bedroom view pic). Could it be that the needles falling from the trees have made the soil too acidic ? And would it help then to sprinkle some lime on the soil. I don't think shade is an issue, I have many clumps prospering in deeper shaded areas of the garden, but there they do not grow under conifers. Your advise will be much appreciated.
Do you feed your snowdrops? If not, competition for minerals could explain what is happening. The snowdrops are having to compete with quite thick grass as well as the trees. Also, the moisture regime could be affecting them. Perhaps the soil near the spruce is too dry in the summer? Just some ideas.
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That is very pretty! I really like the small-flowered plants, and a well-balanced whole plant is more important than just flower size.
Proportions are most important for me, be it small or large snowdrops. For instance, I like this one especially, due to it´s graceful habit.
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Do you feed your snowdrops? If not, competition for minerals could explain what is happening. The snowdrops are having to compete with quite thick grass as well as the trees. Also, the moisture regime could be affecting them. Perhaps the soil near the spruce is too dry in the summer? Just some ideas.
Francois,
I don't think acidity is an issue. Rather a complex shortage: sun, nutrients and water.
In lowland Central Europe, where I live, water shortage might be the central issue. We get only about 600 mm rain yearly and the soil is sandy. The spruces are effective water suckers year-round, they transpirate also in winter. Last but not least - their dense canopies prevent rain water and especially snow to penetrate down to the ground. I have two spruces in my garden and the soil below their canopies is constantly dry. Watering in early spring is difficult.
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...The clumps of Galanthus growing near the spruce trees seem to shrink every year ...
Snowdrops and evergreens never seem to mix well. Snowdrops don't mind a dry summer rest but when in leaf they need light and moisture. I imagine that under or near fir trees it is too dark and too dry for them to thrive when in leaf. They struggle to get enough energy to replenish themselves and will gradually die-out.
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So many nice snowdrops in this thread, I've seen them all.
Here it is still winter, very mild though. So far no true deep freezing, almost no snow, absolute minimum temp about -10 C; no winter at all I would say. Today sun, 0 C, no snow.
I have only the most common snowdrops in my garden and now they are in their early stage that I like most. Despite my broken leg I decided to visit the garden and do some poor quality pictures.
My first love is G. nivalis flore pleno. I like the fat flower at any stage, but most at the very beginning, when thick white bud shows up in between the leaves. It also starts blooming earlier and ends later than plain G. nivalis
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My second love is the plain nivalis. It is so elegant. Moreover, all my plants were "imported" from my neighbours for free.
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My third love is G. elwesii - a mixture from cheap trade. Not only big but also hardy and proliferating well. Somewhat too early for our climate - always shows buds before true winter arrives. Despite that - survived the worst winters without damage so far.
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Not love at all - G. woronowii - from local garden center. I do not like the green leaves and the flowers are not elegant enough. On the top - it is not hardy enough. I observe some damage almost every year. Not this year as we are not having true winter, yet.
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I also have a few named snowdrops - the old, cheaper ones. And G. plicatus - I'm not sure, I think it grows and blooms much later.
I like them all, but I am not a galanophile.
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'John Long'
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4750/38452388500_a6c5ec6753_z.jpg)
I bought a couple of bulbs from Matt Bishop three or four years ago and it has been a great addition.
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but I have a question. The clumps of Galanthus growing near the spruce trees seem to shrink every year (from left on the bedroom view pic). Could it be that the needles falling from the trees have made the soil too acidic ? And would it help then to sprinkle some lime on the soil. I don't think shade is an issue, I have many clumps prospering in deeper shaded areas of the garden, but there they do not grow under conifers. Your advise will be much appreciated.
As others have said, it is most likely lack of moisture in the growing season; Galanthus and most woodland spring ephemerals are partners of deciduous trees and not conifers for this reason (and light although I think moisture is the issue here). I'd relocate the snowdrops and perhaps try something like Cyclamen hederifolium, which may work better although I couldn't confirm that myself
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Not love at all - G. woronowii - from local garden center. I do not like the green leaves and the flowers are not elegant enough. On the top - it is not hardy enough. I observe some damage almost every year. Not this year as we are not having true winter, yet.
At least your woronowii look to have good sized flowers; there are some much smaller flowered clones about and these look much better
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Dryad Gold Sovereign continues to light up the garden after more than a month in flower. The flowers are much larger than Primrose Warburg - Sovereign on the right, PW on the left.
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Thank You for the comparison, Anne! This makes Your hybrid much more desirable!
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I think I’ve commented before on here about what a nice stable snowdrop vase you can lash together out of three 28ml Universal Jars.
By way of illustration, here is a selection of flowers on the way to my parents. They are photographed sat on the top deck of the 36 bus going over Harewood Bridge!
Tim DH
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Enhanced by the scenery!
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Anne, Dryad Gold Sovereign looks really good, congratulations!
Here it is still winter, very mild though. So far no true deep freezing, almost no snow, absolute minimum temp about -10 C; no winter at all I would say. Today sun, 0 C, no snow.
I was just wondering what winter is like in Poland, if it is cold, but lucky for you it isn't. Here it is snow and cold, no snowdrops yet, and most likely not for some time looking at the weather forecast.
Not love at all - G. woronowii - from local garden center. I do not like the green leaves and the flowers are not elegant enough. On the top - it is not hardy enough. I observe some damage almost every year. Not this year as we are not having true winter, yet.
This was interesting to read because also here G.woronowii is not the easiest snowdrop to grow. It is sold cheaply by supermarkets so many gardeners have tried it and even when the bulbs start to grow they are not vigorous and it seems that they are not as hardy as G.nivalis. I have one (sandy) bed where it grows well, but in other more moist woodland beds where G.pliatus does well, G.woronowii has disappeared.
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This was interesting to read because also here G.woronowii is not the easiest snowdrop to grow. It is sold cheaply by supermarkets so many gardeners have tried it and even when the bulbs start to grow they are not vigorous and it seems that they are not as hardy as G.nivalis. I have one (sandy) bed where it grows well, but in other more moist woodland beds where G.pliatus does well, G.woronowii has disappeared.
There are two ways my G. woronowii is tender:
1. They start growth much earlier than G. nivalis, always in autumn, and the above-surface growth is always cut by frost whenever it is strong enough and no snow. I do not know what is the borderline temp, certainly below -10 C. But this is not enough here. This is in contrary to G. elwesii, which is also an early grower, but is never affected.
2. The bulbs are not hardy enough, either. When we had the last truly severe winter (?? - 2012, close to -30 C and no snow) - most of the bulbs were lost despite my deep planting. It does produce seeds, however - so no final loss. Other snowdrops were not affected.
Otherwise - a good grower and increasing well here.
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I was lucky enough to be able to visit Turkey and Georgia last year. I saw huge swathes of woronowii growing in the grounds of the Batumi Botanic garden which is directly on the Black Sea coast only (maybe) 30m above see level. These had flowered some time before we got there. I also saw woronowii growing on mountain and hillside cliffs in Turkey that were only recently emerged from under snow and were in full flower. It would not surprise me if these two different woronowii populations showed quite different degrees of hardiness.
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I was lucky enough to be able to visit Turkey and Georgia last year. I saw huge swathes of woronowii growing in the grounds of the Batumi Botanic garden which is directly on the Black Sea coast only (maybe) 30m above see level. These had flowered some time before we got there. I also saw woronowii growing on mountain and hillside cliffs in Turkey that were only recently emerged from under snow and were in full flower. It would not surprise me if these two different woronowii populations showed quite different degrees of hardiness.
Did you see anything like this variation in the colour of the flowers?:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12824.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12824.0)
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Full sun for this morning's patrol!
First up Dryad Gold Ribbon. This lovely drop is still going strong. The Dryad Gold Series contain such a variety of yellows, they are a delight. Additional shoots alreadt emerging so it looks like another good grower from Anne, in line with the others.
Next, another of my favourite yellows, Elizabeth Harrison from Ian Christie. This has bulked very well for me. Last season I was able to pass some on and I expected a flowering hiatus as it recovered. Not at all, flowering well again.
Next Chrome Yellow which has been a great surprise. Bulking well, normal from a Thorps sourced plant. More yellow than I had expected.
Next Gestrichelt Pulk. a gift from a friend, 'King of the Green Tips' Neil Parker! Apart from the fact it is a very fine example of the green tipped drops and it bulks well, I have been able to find out nothing about it's origins.
Finally, Carolyn Elwes, a wonderful drop that is always a surprise. Last year there was a far greener core to the markings, this year more yellow.
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I've rotated 'Carolyn Elwes' for you, Ingrid
I know you tell me she often has this yellow foliage and grows and bulks up well - I remain unconvinced!
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Did you see anything like this variation in the colour of the flowers?:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12824.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12824.0)
In a word, no. All the ones I saw had the conventional woronowii markings. But far and away the largest population of woronowii I encountered had finished flowering before I got there.
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hmm, that's a shame. Would've been nice if there were a hidden cache of woronowii variety there in Georgia. :)
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It does, thank you so much Anne! :)
I will post pictures of them later in spring (after all the snow melts).
Hi Leena, update from Taavi, who saw our posts:
The plants in catalogue Sulev Savisaar 2011 (Tuulik 6 and 8) are not the clones you have. I can not find the clones Tuulik 2 and 9 in any Sulev's catalogue, so I do not know what exactly they are. Sulev uses his own numbering if I have not given the code.
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It would not surprise me if these two different woronowii populations showed quite different degrees of hardiness.
It could be that there are differences in hardiness! The ones which do well for me are quite late flowering, many times they are one of the latest snowdrops to flower in my garden, and they don't suffer from frost because of that. I think I remember someone here in Finland having said that her woronowii is earlier than mine.
Hi Leena, update from Taavi, who saw our posts:
The plants in catalogue Sulev Savisaar 2011 (Tuulik 6 and 8) are not the clones you have. I can not find the clones Tuulik 2 and 9 in any Sulev's catalogue, so I do not know what exactly they are. Sulev uses his own numbering if I have not given the code.
Thank you Anne and Taavi! :)
The ones Sulev sold are described here (https://sibullilled.ee/arhiiv/2011/) in his catalque from 2011, scroll down after the peonies. From no 87 on. They seem to be good snowdrops also here, of course when they originate from so close to Finland. :)
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Full sun for this morning's patrol!
Wonderful yellow snowdrops, I always look forward to you morning patrols, and especially that you also tell your experiences with them. :)
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It could be that there are differences in hardiness! The ones which do well for me are quite late flowering, many times they are one of the latest snowdrops to flower in my garden, and they don't suffer from frost because of that. I think I remember someone here in Finland having said that her woronowii is earlier than mine.
In my garden, where G. woronowii from different sources grow, flowering time differs 6-8 weeks, though they´re all in te same border and look all more or less the same. Those which started flowering early in January will be more vulnerable to frost than those which start into growth just now, of course.
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I brought this Galanthus from England last May. They were "in the green" plants and I planted them straight away, when I arrived at my home in Portugal. They went into a shady part of the garden, with good soil, still I amended the soil with more organic matter... They stayed in the ground for all the long and hot portuguese summer, they got good watering each week in Jully and August, the same amount as other plants recieved. I was really hopeful they would survive...and they did! BUT, they only rewarded me with 1 flower..and a lot of leaves..a bit mean ;D still, it was worth the effort. I assume they are Galanthus nivalis from a rather commum variety, but for me they are special.
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I brought this Galanthus from England last May. They were "in the green" plants and I planted them straight away, when I arrived at my home in Portugal. They went into a shady part of the garden, with good soil, still I amended the soil with more organic matter... They stayed in the ground for all the long and hot portuguese summer, they got good watering each week in Jully and August, the same amount as other plants recieved. I was really hopeful they would survive...and they did! BUT, they only rewarded me with 1 flower..and a lot of leaves..a bit mean ;D still, it was worth the effort. I assume they are Galanthus nivalis from a rather commum variety, but for me they are special.
Hallo Ielaba,
your snowdropflower is the first step to become a "galanthomane"! :-)
I got last week a paket with snowdrop-varieties in the green from "Harveys Garden Plants" and they came good here. So I got "John Grey" with big flowers and "South Hayes" with the special outhergreen flower. I think, they develop in my garden well and flower next year again! Greetings from Germany - Harald
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A lovely morning patrol in the bright sunshine again, a little cold though. A great day for clumps.
First, Morgana continues to be the star of the show, a wonderful garden plant, even my satellite clumps are increasing. The good news is that Andy Byfield tells me he will be offering a very small number soon. For lovers of beautiful snowdrops, virescents and good do'ers it is a must.
Next, Pearl Drops, an absolute stunner from Michael Broadhurst. Very distinctive inner with a real shine to the light green that certainly reflects the light and gives the pearl element of the name. If you see this one offered it is well worth adding to your collection.
Then Bankside a very vigorous grower for me, this looks like another one I will have to cut out of the pot in the dormant period. A great tussle between it and Hughes Emerald!
Finally, Flocon de Neige which started slow, but is now increasing
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An interest-in/obsession-with snowdrops is often referred to as "Galanthomania". This draws a parallel with the historical phenomenon of "Tulipomania" when the Dutch went a bit mad for tulips, leading to a tulip price bubble and subsequent market crash. Harald-Alex suggested a name for a sufferer from Galanthomania, an alternative that occurred to me might be "Galanthomaniac". I am Alan and I am a Galanthomaniac.
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picked up my bulbs from Monksilver Nursery yesterday at Nettetal:
Walrus
Blonde Inge (probably more light-greenish than yellow)
Wendy's Gold
Mrs Thompson (really like the size of this flower!)
Trumps, three for the price of one! (think I got this one from avon bulbs though)
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Trying G. krasnovii. Has anyone had any success with this?
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Trying G. krasnovii. Has anyone had any success with this?
Yes, I grow a number of them, both under glass and out in the garden, they grow well.
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I hope I can get them established. They get extra ‘attention’ (fuss).
Thanks for the edit Maggi.
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The very, very tiny but lovely Galanthus alpinus var. alpinus.
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The very, very tiny but lovely Galanthus alpinus var. alpinus.
I saw several populations of Galanthus alpinus in Turkey last year. The ones growing in an alpine meadow were quite small but we saw some larger ones amongst trees on a steep bank by the roadside. So although the ones you have are tiny and cute, that's probably not representative of the species as a whole.
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I saw several populations of Galanthus alpinus in Turkey last year. The ones growing in an alpine meadow were quite small but we saw some larger ones amongst trees on a steep bank by the roadside. So although the ones you have are tiny and cute, that's probably not representative of the species as a whole.
Quite. And to illustrate the point, here is Galanthus schaoricus, which I am told is a synonym of Galanthus alpinus var. alpinus. Much taller at flowering - flower not open due to dull wet day here.
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Found this lovely double today and it's absolutely huge! Measuring in at 60mm across.
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Always packed in some snow and no open flowers.
Some yellows
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Trumps at a sunnier place with less snow.
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Quite a few mentions and photos of Galanthus plicatus 'Sarah Dumont' in the forum - but can anyone tell me the history of this plant - where it originated, who the person Sarah Dumont might be etc..... ??
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Quite a few mentions and photos of Galanthus plicatus 'Sarah Dumont' in the forum - but can anyone tell me the history of this plant - where it originated, who the person Sarah Dumont might be etc..... ??
Answering my own question again! Found this on a Monksilver ad on Ebay ..."A yellow snowdrop named by Joe for a lady who worked for him for 20 years"
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Found this lovely double today and it's absolutely huge! Measuring in at 60mm across.
I don’t know much about doubles but this looks interesting Shauney.
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I saw several populations of Galanthus alpinus in Turkey last year. The ones growing in an alpine meadow were quite small but we saw some larger ones amongst trees on a steep bank by the roadside. So although the ones you have are tiny and cute, that's probably not representative of the species as a whole.
Mine are tiny too!
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Another tiddler - Galanthus angustifolius
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Some interesting ipoc seedlings in flower today, the first ones with flipped up edges to the outers, and a face with a nose as well as eyes!
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G. Phil Cornish - new to me, and a very nice plicatus from Taavi Tuulik with very long outer segments. Very elegant.
Also a more heavily green seedling, with a Phil Cornish lookalike.
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Olive Mason (at least I think it was her) was selling Trym seedling at £5 each on the Members' Sales Table at the HPS event. I only saw the last ones, which weren't as distinguished as the ones in Anne's photos. And I bought Galanthus 'Spotty Muldoon' from amongst the plants offered by Phil Cornish. That's one that possibly hasn't yet made the National Collections.
Later in the day I encountered a whole clump of 'Phil Cornish'.
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Some interesting ipoc seedlings in flower today, the first ones with flipped up edges to the outers, and a face with a nose as well as eyes!
Love the one with the nose 😁
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The MacLennans put on another display table at the HPS event. I was particularly impressed by a pot of 'Miss Adventure'. I don't think I had ever seen more than one at a time hitherto and I hadn't taken-in quite how weird it is.
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... and a face with a nose as well as eyes!
Could it be this fellow?
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I don’t know much about doubles but this looks interesting Shauney.
When I saw It I thought WOW! It stuck out like a sore thumb from all the other drops around. I can find a fair bit of info about flower size in single drops but i can't find much info on flower size for doubles! Does anyone know what the largest double is?
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Could it be this fellow?
(Attachment Link)
Alan that's exactly the first thing that I thought of 😊
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Still coming more: two findlings of this spring. First a elwesii nivalis hybrid, the second a elwesii.
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The G. elwesii looks really special with marks on tips and shoulders!
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Thank you for your answer Harald.
I see myself already as some sort of frustrated Galanthomane/Galantophile, but unfortunatly I live in a mediterranean country and I'm not completey sure if Galanthus can be happy in here. I belive that you should grow the right plant for the right place, even though I had some success with this first bulbs, I'm still a bit sceptic about whether it is hardy to zone 9 with hot summers. Let's see what future brings to this this first clump, only then I can dream about all those fancy and beautiful varieties you guys show in here. I loved "South Hayes", those flowers are perfect! <33
Thank you, Greetings from Lisbon!
Hallo Ielaba,
your snowdropflower is the first step to become a "galanthomane"! :-)
I got last week a paket with snowdrop-varieties in the green from "Harveys Garden Plants" and they came good here. So I got "John Grey" with big flowers and "South Hayes" with the special outhergreen flower. I think, they develop in my garden well and flower next year again! Greetings from Germany - Harald
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Gert,
My oh my...both are very nice. Congratulations! I should be so lucky.
Rick
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I live in a mediterranean country and I'm not completey sure if Galanthus can be happy in here.
There are snowdrop species that are native to Greece, including some of the Greek islands and to the coastal regions of Turkey. Some of these snowdrop species, like reginae-olgae and peshmenii, are barely hardy enough to grow in the UK and many people who grow them here use bulb frames to give additional protection. They may need a woodland setting but they are native to the Mediterranean and enjoy a Mediterranean climate. Does Lisbon actually have a Mediterranean climate?
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The G. elwesii looks really special with marks on tips and shoulders!
I agree. Green marks on the "shoulders" are much rarer than green marks on the tips.
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Thank you for your answer Harald.
I see myself already as some sort of frustrated Galanthomane/Galantophile, but unfortunatly I live in a mediterranean country and I'm not completey sure if Galanthus can be happy in here. I belive that you should grow the right plant for the right place, even though I had some success with this first bulbs, I'm still a bit sceptic about whether it is hardy to zone 9 with hot summers. Let's see what future brings to this this first clump, only then I can dream about all those fancy and beautiful varieties you guys show in here. I loved "South Hayes", those flowers are perfect! <33
Thank you, Greetings from Lisbon!
What about galanthus reginae-olgae or peshmenii? I'm no expert, but they seem to prefer somewhat warmer conditions.
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...I'd like a poc with good green marks on the outers too if you can manage it!
Perhaps this couple will do the job?
(https://up.picr.de/31888280by.jpg)
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And I bought Galanthus 'Spotty Muldoon' from amongst the plants offered by Phil Cornish.
(Attachment Link)
That is such a Phil Cornish name.
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Thank you for your answer Harald.
I see myself already as some sort of frustrated Galanthomane/Galantophile, but unfortunatly I live in a mediterranean country and I'm not completey sure if Galanthus can be happy in here. I belive that you should grow the right plant for the right place, even though I had some success with this first bulbs, I'm still a bit sceptic about whether it is hardy to zone 9 with hot summers. Let's see what future brings to this this first clump, only then I can dream about all those fancy and beautiful varieties you guys show in here. I loved "South Hayes", those flowers are perfect! <33
Thank you, Greetings from Lisbon!
Hallo Ielaba,
thank You for Your answer. I think, it is possible for You to cultivate snowdrops too. I send You the atlascard of the homelands of the wild galanthus varieties and there You see, that many of the galanthus live in Greece, Turkey, Krim, Syria, Iran in areas, where the temperatures higher as in UK or Germany. I think, the hot summer-temperatures are not a great probleme, when the snowdrop-bulbs are in the dry soil, covered with mulch or dry brown leaves for isolation. For instant: the Galanthus reginae-olgae from Greece flowers in october, when the soil will be wet after the first september-rains. They do not need wintertemperatures, to start growing!
When You compare the average month temperatures from Portugal and Greece, You find more similarties as to UK or Germany!
So I think, it is worth to start and try this interesting hobby!
(I myselve start an experiment to cultivate Lotos plants from river Nil, because gardener have found, that the leaves of this plants stop growth in Autumn and the plant survives in waterponds in more than 80 cm waterdeep icefree. In spring they start again to grow and flower next summer!)
Greetings from Germany Harald Alex
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Does anyone know anything about this plant? It came to me with an almost illegible label which I think said 'Double Bill'
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'Moses Basket' looks very inscrutable as it stubbornly refuses to leave its outer segments in a normal pose. I think I prefer it that way.
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I was asked how weatherproof the Estonian Spirit group are. Estonia has very hard winters (mild this year at -13C), and they are happy so far out on my raised bed, HS2, here in North Yorkshire.
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'Moses Basket' looks very inscrutable as it stubbornly refuses to leave its outer segments in a normal pose. I think I prefer it that way.
I´d prefer it that way, too! Looks like a friendly Asian.
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Does anyone know anything about this plant? It came to me with an almost illegible label which I think said 'Double Bill'
Anne, my records show that my Double Bill came from Jenny Homewood a year ago.
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'Moses Basket' looks very inscrutable as it stubbornly refuses to leave its outer segments in a normal pose. I think I prefer it that way.
Hallo Annew, this galanthus I found in my garden this year:
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Hallo Annew, this galanthus I found in my garden this year:
Poirot! ;D
cheers
fermi
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Jaime I can grow Galanthus reginae-olgae in South Australia where we have very hot dry conditions during summer and not that much rainfall. They are growing with other irises, arils, Albuca etc and get no supplementary watering.
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Morning patrol today, brief sunshine but cold with a poculiform theme.
First up Annielle from Ian Christie and Cyril Lafong, named for Cyril's wife. I love this snowdrop's beauty and poise and am becoming a real enthusiast for the Pocs.
Swan lake, looking absolutely lovely, another from the Ian Christie/Cyril Lafong stable! This drop caused the usual domestic, my AT rates this as the Number 1 Poc, I prefer Annielle. How I enjoyed the hour lecture on Kant's notions of beauty and the sublime!! :)
Next, the old favourite EA Bowles, a Michael Myers discovery. Large and imposing, a statement drop in the garden.
Then Seraph, one of my favourites, majestic looking and clumping very well. The fact that this variety was believed lost and did a Lazarus gives it a special appeal.
Next Angelique, looking lovely amongst the Cyclamen.
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Beautiful selection. I have Annielle and agree that it has superlative grace and poise- better than anything else I have.
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Gorgeous - I just love the pocs!
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Just some unnamed finds, Elwesii, Sharlocki, Nivalis
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Just some unnamed finds, Elwesii, Sharlocki, Nivalis
All good. Can you see the inner petals on the nivalis in warmer weather or is it always that tightly closed?
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Just some unnamed finds, Elwesii, Sharlocki, Nivalis
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That's an interesting nivalis you found there Gert and repeating what Alan said...does it open up or does it stay closed?
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It need some time and good weather to open. But it won't open far, because it is very tiny.
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Spotted this clump of green leaved nivalis today.
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Bit of sun today and I had some free time - enjoyed a coffee on my beloved swing seat (the one Ian Young told me we'd never use!) before the cold got to me. The snowdrops are looking pretty.
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They look good. Half of mine are nearly over.
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Still got lots to come David - life is different here in the N.E. of Scotland! For instance, a batch of nivalis in a trough of Sanguinaria canadensis are just showing colour, it'll be a little while before they even turn , never mind open.
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Maggi, I am worrying about you with all of those Snowdrops...more than you have ever let on...very nice. ;D
Rick
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I've dozens of the blasted things, Rick - they're pretty much all the same! ;D
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I've dozens of the blasted things, Rick - they're pretty much all the same! ;D
Love it....you and David King...I think he is the one who loves to say this. LOL.
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Gert, some really terrific drops! Keep 'em coming!
Here is one I am thrilled to grow. An elwesii poculiform originated by Cal Mateer that is putting on quite a show in the garden this week.
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That's a real beauty, Rick - I like pocs! G. elwesii are sometimes reluctant to grow out in our garden, though so we tend to keep those in pots.
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If it will grow in my care it will thrive in your garden! lol Rick
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I don't know what it is about our place that the elwesii don't like, but they never do well in the open garden. Very odd! They do look very happy for you!
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Ha ha...too much cossetting in your Scottish haven.
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I think it MAY be the summer wet!
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This is G. 'Godfrey Owen' basking in the sun this week following a terribly cold start to the winter here in S.E. Massachusetts, US. Rick
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Yes, summer wet is not so good for them. I am guessing both nivalis and plicatus are happy with you, Maggi.
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Gert, some really terrific drops! Keep 'em coming!
Here is one I am thrilled to grow. An elwesii poculiform originated by Cal Mateer that is putting on quite a show in the garden this week.
This is really an outstanding selection, Rick! Especially I like the dainty green marks, which make it look not as icy and sterile as other pocs.
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This is really an outstanding selection, Rick! Especially I like the dainty green marks, which make it look not as icy and sterile as other pocs.
Thank you, Mariette!
I think the faint green tip on the inners adds an element of beauty to this one as well....the rounded sepal edges are a bit distinctive to my eye as well. Rick
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Sheryl Jermyn has some news of Jim Jermyn........
BREAKING NEWS: Check out BBC Breakfast News on BBC1 tomorrow morning - Saturday 24 Feb - to see my Dad, Jim Jermyn, botanist / horticulturalist and Head Gardener / Property Manager at Branklyn Garden, do a piece on rare snowdrops!!!
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Sheryl Jermyn has some news of Jim Jermyn........
BREAKING NEWS: Check out BBC Breakfast News on BBC1 tomorrow morning - Saturday 24 Feb - to see my Dad, Jim Jermyn, botanist / horticulturalist and Head Gardener / Property Manager at Branklyn Garden, do a piece on rare snowdrops!!!
Lets hope that prices are not mentioned or we can look forward to another wave of Ebay fraudsters!
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A very pleasant surprise to see this one drop this morning. This our own Alan Brigg's green leaved nivalis 'Green Light' growing nicely in North America. Foul weather for photographs today is my excuse for this lackluster and unfocused image.
Thank you for making this possible, Alan!
Rick
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Hello all, the weather prognose of eastgermany for the next week say nightfrosts till -20 °C and I will see, how the snowdrops will survive!
Today I found the "Scharlockii" reacted in a special reaction: in the first frost of -7 °C the flowers nicked in the point with the two "Ears" and grow downwards, as if the want protect the flowers!
I will see, if the grow back to light after the winterperiod!
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a fine Elwesii Snowdrop like the "Fluke" of a whale:
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Bit of sun today and I had some free time - enjoyed a coffee on my beloved swing seat (the one Ian Young told me we'd never use!) before the cold got to me. The snowdrops are looking pretty.
So lovely views in the garden with snowdrops! There is nothing better than snowdrops in their full flower when other plants are only just coming. :)
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Every year my snowdrops get attacked by what I guess are mice and slugs. They wait until most flowers are in full glory, and then start munching their way through. Every morning, a clump slightly further up the garden, will be diminished like in this picture:
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I have never seen the culprits, but I guess it must be mice because the attack is so systematic. I have asked my helper to look out for them but to no avail...
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A clump of what I presume is 'Viridapice', I never bought it so no idea where it came from:
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and a detail of its flower
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Maybe the experts can confirm it is indeed 'Viridapice' ?
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Sheryl Jermyn has some news of Jim Jermyn........
BREAKING NEWS: Check out BBC Breakfast News on BBC1 tomorrow morning - Saturday 24 Feb - to see my Dad, Jim Jermyn, botanist / horticulturalist and Head Gardener / Property Manager at Branklyn Garden, do a piece on rare snowdrops!!!
Michael Myers was included :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-43174324/are-you-suffering-from-galanthomania (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-43174324/are-you-suffering-from-galanthomania)
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'Green Light' growing nicely in North America.
Growing superbly well, I would say. The green on the outer petals can be just a small dot, sometimes. You have the marks as large as they ever get.
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Dodo Norton looking good in the sunshine today.
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Ditto
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No name, no id, but glorious in the winter sun today..
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Brief flash of sunshine amidst the snow on a very cold morning patrol.
First up Greenkeeper from Anne Wright. I like this green tipped variety. it has good strong green colour. Both mine are increasing well, both in the ground and pot.
Next Praha, this one in my swaps/spares pot. Reported to be slow and difficult but not so for me. Delightful colour and diminutive, holds it's own despite it's size because of colour and shape.
Next Tante Anne from Andreas Händel, which he describes as ' the only double flowered G. nivalis with five outer petals and green markings on the outer sides". It is an odd looking drop but not unattractive.
Next, one of the freaks Green Maid! Not to my taste at all but catches the eye nevertheless.
Finally Lucy, bulking incredibly well and looking wonderful today, it has been flowering for an age.
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How pretty 'Lucy' is! Quite like 'Praha' too ..... I'll make no comment about 'Green Maid' !
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Nice selection. I like Lucy too. What are you doing about your pots in this cold weather? I’ve sunk my larger snowdrop pots in a trench in our polytunnel. The many smaller pots are in the heated greenhouse ...with the lemons! Seems weird. The garden drops will just have to cope. A bit concerned about the reginae-olgaes
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What do you think of this one? I thought it looked quite striking, went to consult my notes as to which named cultivar it was and found that it was actually a snowdrop I found as a single bulb in 2014. It has just got to the stage when you can appreciate it as a group; the first time in its existence.
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I'm quite taken with the pinched green and white tip. I don't think we have the concise terminology to convey this effect.
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Yes like it a lot. Looks a good one.
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Growing superbly well, I would say. The green on the outer petals can be just a small dot, sometimes. You have the marks as large as they ever get.
Thank you, Alan. I will show another with both flowers more opened up when we get a few rays of sun.
Also, on your 2014 foundling...that is quite a lovely bloom with an elegant long form and as you say the pinched apical mark on the outers simply accentuates its elegance to my eye. Is it nivalis? Lovely. Rick
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Is it nivalis?
14 years ago I chanced across a wood with a large population of Galanthus nivalis. Many nivalis populations in England are not very fertile and they rely mostly on natural division to bulk-up the stock then man, animals or nature to spread the bulbs around. But in this particular wood you see large quantities of seedlings and as a result the snowdrops growing there are much more diverse than is usual here. We got permission from the landowner to remove a few bulbs and I have been returning every year since to see what I can find. I have never yet found more than a few of any one type or a few different types of interest in any one year. Most things that I find and think might be promising come to nothing. But this one is looking good and it has increased quite rapidly.
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but I have a question. The clumps of Galanthus growing near the spruce trees seem to shrink every year (from left on the bedroom view pic). Could it be that the needles falling from the trees have made the soil too acidic ? And would it help then to sprinkle some lime on the soil. I don't think shade is an issue, I have many clumps prospering in deeper shaded areas of the garden, but there they do not grow under conifers. Your advise will be much appreciated.
Thank you all for you advise. I think water & nutrients are probably not the problem, the soil is a heavy clay soil which keeps it's moisture very well even when rain does not fall for a couple for months (happened last year) and since I use a mulchmower for the lawn the soil even accumulates nutrients. So that leaves me with the shade as major problem. There's also a rhododendron growing there, which makes it indeed a dark spot and the sherry tree at the right also grows bigger every year. I will cut off the lowest branches of the spruces to allow more light getting in from the South.
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I'm quite taken with the pinched green and white tip. I don't think we have the concise terminology to convey this effect.
Very nice find Alan, the term is goffering to indicate the pinched green part - often seen in what I always think of as Bohemian snowdrops.
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So that leaves me with the shade as major problem.
In one location I visit there is a big colony of Galanthus plicatus, self-set around some trees. One tree is deciduous and is surrounded by snowdrops right up to the trunk. The other tree is an evergreen yew and there are no snowdrops at all close to the trunk; nothing within a 1 m radius and little within 2 m. The contrast in growth habits is very striking.
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I like Alan's find :), it always special when it is your own find.
Also 'Praha' is so pretty. At first glance Lucy' looked quite "spotted", but it is different!
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here a short video from last weekend :
https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/bw/mannheim/mannheimer-luisenpark-schneegloeckchen-fieber/-/id=1582/did=21250278/nid=1582/1asd61r/index.html (https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/bw/mannheim/mannheimer-luisenpark-schneegloeckchen-fieber/-/id=1582/did=21250278/nid=1582/1asd61r/index.html)
Have fun
Hans
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Nice film, Hans - thanks for the link - good to see organiser Anne Repnow included.
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there are also some other well known collectors and sellers :) :) :)
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This is an outward facing plicatus that I found last year and which has repeated this year; taken 26 Feb:
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A fine byzantinus, with good inner markings on a substantial flower held on a good pedicel; taken 26 Feb:
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Hi Josh,
Is that the same byzantinus you commented on in 2015 & 2016 with 45mm petals? ( 'SL1'? )
If so, is it any bigger this year?
Would it be fair to say it doesn't bulk up quickly, or have you split it?
Tim DH
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Is that the same byzantinus you commented on in 2015 & 2016 with 45mm petals? ( 'SL1'? )
Hi Tim, no this is another from the same source population and I think from the same year (2015); so this one is not a good clumper although I like it. Outers might be nudging 40mm on this one (I have several around the 38-40mm mark, as size was one of the first things I selected for).
SL-15-1 is the one I found with 45 mm outers. One of two bulbs I potted separately may have hit 45mm this year but they have all been out of the ground (the main lot in an aquatic pot to boot so they need to get in the ground to regularly hit 45mm; ditto full height.
SL-15-1 is very distinctive, with long, narrow incurved outers and clumps well, so is a good drop - I'll post pictures.
Josh
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Tim, this is SL-15-1: first three are this year; fourth is when found in March 2015:
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Lovely shape to that snowdrop Josh, a great find, well done.
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Thanks Brian.
It is from a historic population that I am looking into as i think the population is likely to be noteworthy (appears to be a fragmented relict population from an old rockery long dismantled and may be linked to Crimean War although can't say yet whether snowdrops could be linked directly).
The variation is impressive (and what has led me to arrange permission and go back annually) and is well shown by this one, SL-15-21, which you had a direct hand in, as one of the first things I did in 2015 when I joined was seek advice on chipping, as I must have unwittingly damaged this one on collecting. I came to the forum to try and save what I could of a by then rapidly rotting bulb. You gave me advice, which I followed and this year, three chips flowered (two very small will take another year or likely two); one is double scaped already.
It is a big, currently balloon shaped, heavily textured flower. I recall on finding, it was on a very long scape held on an angle of possibly around 40-45 degrees and had big paddle shaped flowers on good claws held nicely (so claws must lengthen quite considerably like many of the population). Will be interesting to see how it develops.
Photos show larger, double scaped flower (outside photos) and smaller, currently single scaped bulb (indoors pictures).
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Josh, that is quite a lovely find and I am delighted along with you that you were able to get the three chips going again. I am interested in how you are piecing the history together to connect to drops brought back from the Crimean War ending in 1856. Fascinating connections with history.
Rick
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I think there may be a flaw in the 'Crimean War' theory. There are two forms of plicatus, var. plicatus which has a single apical mark and var. byzantinus which has two marks. The Turks call var. byzantinus "The Istanbul Snowdrop" because it grows in that area, bordering the south west coast of the Black Sea. Var. plicatus is the form found in Crimea, which is at the opposite end of the Black Sea, the north east and a long way distant. I have never seen either population in the wild so I don't know how true to type either is. However there is a large naturalised population of plicatus at Wandlebury Ring and they all have a single mark (var. plicatus) although in some instances it covers more than half of the inner petal.
Josh's very beautiful snowdrop manifestly has two marks so I think that means it did not come from Crimea.
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I am interested in how you are piecing the history together to connect to drops brought back from the Crimean War ending in 1856. Fascinating connections with history.
Rick
I am also interested in the military connection to distribution Rick, particularly the mapping of the various regiments that were involved and their home barracks locations.
For example, it is a mistake to concentrate solely on the Crimea itself. British and Allied Regiments were stationed in various areas around the region. Scutari for example had many allied units plus the hospital where Florence Nightingale was based, in the South West of the region of the Black Sea. Cavalry units would have covered much wider areas than their barracks as they practised tactics. There is still a lot of work required to map the spread of these little flowers.
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very interesting Alan - thanks for pointing that out and avoiding too much research in the wrong direction. The population is largely what one would call byzantinus in form but the variation includes a few single apical mark types as well as flowers that look as if gracilis might be in the genes.
If a population is long standing and has included more than one species at some point, then how the plants develop over time is something I suspect we don't know about sufficiently. Even in the wild, it does not always look to be clear what populations are composed of and DNA analysis should certainly help here (I initially wondered if byzantinus, with its thinner leaves to plicatus plicatus is actually a plicatus gracilis hybrid in historic origin although that was probably wild speculation!).
G.p. byzantinus is clearly a very variable (sub)species or form (again, please excuse lack of botanical knowledge) and what Tom Mitchell has documented illustrates this. I asked Tom a while ago if looking at the variation in this population might help pinpoint a single source population. That would likely be difficult to do, even presupposing a single source initial collection; however somewhere in the area east of the Bosphorus (or south near Bursa perhaps) would be likely and so I should have been able to use basic geography to rule out a Crimean connection as the main source!
I will try and investigate further in an event and see what more I can find: no full yellows yet but there are some that are definitely on the way to yellow and there is also a bit of a virescent hotspot there (mostly lightly or partly virescent) so it is worthy of looking into possible provenance, or history at least.
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I am also interested in the military connection to distribution Rick, particularly the mapping of the various regiments that were involved and their home barracks locations.
For example, it is a mistake to concentrate solely on the Crimea itself. British and Allied Regiments were stationed in various areas around the region. Scutari for example had many allied units plus the hospital where Florence Nightingale was based, in the South West of the region of the Black Sea. Cavalry units would have covered much wider areas than their barracks as they practised tactics. There is still a lot of work required to map the spread of these little flowers.
Very interesting, Ingrid. There are military connections to the area the byzantinus population is in, including family connections to the Crimean War (and possibly other military campaigns (my history knowledge is lacking here). More investigation needed!
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these are two stripe-y virescents from the population; first from last year, and second from this year's visit:
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I am pleased to have been of some help in rescuing the snowdrop Josh, that's what this forum is all about. Very pleasing that your first attempt at chipping was a success too - as I always say "It's not rocket science" but things can go wrong!
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... it is a mistake to concentrate solely on the Crimea itself. British and Allied Regiments were stationed in various areas around the region. Scutari for example had many allied units plus the hospital where Florence Nightingale was based, in the South West of the region of the Black Sea. Cavalry units would have covered much wider areas than their barracks as they practised tactics. There is still a lot of work required to map the spread of these little flowers.
That's a fascinating observation, Ingrid. I had no idea that Florence Nightingale was so far away from the front line - but then I'm no historian.
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Very interesting, Ingrid. There are military connections to the area the byzantinus population is in, including family connections to the Crimean War (and possibly other military campaigns (my history knowledge is lacking here). More investigation needed!
The psychology of soldiers is also of interest, Generally they are often scavengers and traders. The fact that there might be an absence of a British Regiment in an area, does not preclude the fact that they could be a source if another allied unit was based in the location. Trading was commonplace. There would also have been many garden staff present in many units. We know from the First World War that gardening was commonplace in the trenches, not just for food but also flowers.
It is also worth remembering not to concentrate too heavily on the battle sites, soldiers seldom stop under fire to collect plants. They are far more likely to do so when out of the front line, resting, being re-equipped, given replacement troops, or recovering in hospital. These areas can often be miles from the front lines.
It is fascinating though.
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Hi Josh,
Thanks for the details on SL-15-1
Having looked at the pictures I’m actually more interested in SL-15-21.. Although petals that shape are really hard to measure, what do you reckon its size is?
Tim DH
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I am pleased to have been of some help in rescuing the snowdrop Josh, that's what this forum is all about. Very pleasing that your first attempt at chipping was a success too - as I always say "It's not rocket science" but things can go wrong!
Thanks Brian - I am very glad the forum was there and you helped out when I needed it. I've only chopped two other bulbs, both that were diseased - one that didn't work - that was too far gone I suspect, and one of the striped virescents that I have five seedling sized shoots up this year.
I am going to chip some more of the byzantinus this year, as I have an idea of what grows well and what might be best to propagate (a good insurance measure too if they are not available elsewhere).
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Having looked at the pictures I’m actually more interested in SL-15-21.. Although petals that shape are really hard to measure, what do you reckon its size is?
Tim, I'll try to measure as it develops but it is the width as opposed to the length that is most striking currently (might be easier to measure as well!). Ill try tomorrow after work to measure both length and width.
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Thanks Josh and Ingrid for those historical footnotes...I am interested in learning more when you connect more dots, Josh! Thank you very much! Rick
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Thank you so much Alan. I've learn about reginae-olgae recently and I want to try those ones, specialy the winter flowering ones. it sound really promising for our climate. In Lisbon we have a Mediterranean climate, but with a strong altantic influence, with lots of rain in Sping and Autumn (in normal years at least), still the summer can be bone dry.
There are snowdrop species that are native to Greece, including some of the Greek islands and to the coastal regions of Turkey. Some of these snowdrop species, like reginae-olgae and peshmenii, are barely hardy enough to grow in the UK and many people who grow them here use bulb frames to give additional protection. They may need a woodland setting but they are native to the Mediterranean and enjoy a Mediterranean climate. Does Lisbon actually have a Mediterranean climate?
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Thank you Harald-Alex, for taking the time and show me the map with the species distribution, i apolozige for the late reply. It is very encouraging to see all those Galatnhtus growing wild in countries with hot Summers. It is specially promessing when you say they grow well if "covered with mulch or dry brown leaves for isolation", this way they would face drought much better, And i will try grow them in the spring garden, where they will be under deciduous trees. Indeed I should try and get reginae-olgae from the UK in the green, I'm really looking forward to grow this species, specially the winter flowering one. Thank you
Hallo Ielaba,
thank You for Your answer. I think, it is possible for You to cultivate snowdrops too. I send You the atlascard of the homelands of the wild galanthus varieties and there You see, that many of the galanthus live in Greece, Turkey, Krim, Syria, Iran in areas, where the temperatures higher as in UK or Germany. I think, the hot summer-temperatures are not a great probleme, when the snowdrop-bulbs are in the dry soil, covered with mulch or dry brown leaves for isolation. For instant: the Galanthus reginae-olgae from Greece flowers in october, when the soil will be wet after the first september-rains. They do not need wintertemperatures, to start growing!
When You compare the average month temperatures from Portugal and Greece, You find more similarties as to UK or Germany!
So I think, it is worth to start and try this interesting hobby!
(I myselve start an experiment to cultivate Lotos plants from river Nil, because gardener have found, that the leaves of this plants stop growth in Autumn and the plant survives in waterponds in more than 80 cm waterdeep icefree. In spring they start again to grow and flower next summer!)
Greetings from Germany Harald Alex
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Hi Pat, thank you for your answer and photo of Galanthus reginae-olgae, they look rally gorgeous, and in fact I might grow mine in a very similar climate to South Australia. It is very encoraging and reginae-olgae are the ones I will keep in mind for now, I have to get them in near future! ;D
Jaime I can grow Galanthus reginae-olgae in South Australia where we have very hot dry conditions during summer and not that much rainfall. They are growing with other irises, arils, Albuca etc and get no supplementary watering.
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A few plicatus finds from this February:
first is not particularly unusual except in being a plicatus plicatus type in a mainly byzantinus population
second has a nice shape with pointed tips to the outers
third is a very large face type (outers have reached 40mm)
fourth is a lovely light green virescent
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fourth is a lovely light green virescent
Some great finds, there Josh; it must be a fascinating population. Do I see stronger green marks at the base of the outers on that virescent one? Green shoulders are much rarer than green tips.
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second has a nice shape with pointed tips to the outers
They are all pretty, Josh - but this one with a bow tie for "eyes" is adorable!
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That´s true, but the shape of the first one makes it my faourite.
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I see what you mean - that first one is very elegant. I think it is often the overall shape like that which attracts us, isn't it, before we see any differences in marking etc. ?
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Well, I´m afraid I hopelessly fall for elegant snowdrops. After all, that´s most important for garden effect. Interesting details are very welcome, but, as I look at most of my snowdrops in the borders from a distance, it´s the overall impression that mainly counts for me.