We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button

Author Topic: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE  (Read 6035 times)

Hkind

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • Hannelotte's Garden
Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« on: December 05, 2006, 07:41:15 PM »
I suppose there are others who grow this gentian from the SSSe collection. Since birds always are stealing my labels, I cannot give you the selection number.

I have searched Ho Ting-nong's gentian monography carefully and cannot find any species like this. As things are, I haven't even been able to  find the right section. Sometimes I have been wondering whether it is a gentian at all or might be some other Gentianaceae. 

Are there any suggestions?

Hannelotte

Hannelotte in Sweden

Hannelotte's Garden website:
http://www.abc.se/~m8449/

Hkind

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • Hannelotte's Garden
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2006, 07:49:15 PM »
Sorry, I have problems with up-loading the images. I'll try once more, but am not sure at all that I'll have success.
 :-\ Hannelotte
Hannelotte in Sweden

Hannelotte's Garden website:
http://www.abc.se/~m8449/

Maggi Young

  • Forum Dogsbody
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44719
  • Country: scotland
  • "There's often a clue"
    • International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2006, 08:01:09 PM »
Thank you for the pictures, Hannelotte... not that I am able to help you! Sorry!
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

ichristie

  • Former President
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1224
  • Country: scotland
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2006, 08:00:07 AM »
Hi Hannelotte, I have looked at your Gentian Picture several times and have not been able to find anything either that looks like it, perhaps it is NOT a gentian? looks interesting so lets hope it will set seed. We did collect several NEW plants on the SSSE trip and I would love to go back again, I will ask Santa for a big fat cheque to pay for the trip, cheers Ian.
Ian ...the Christie kind...
from Kirriemuir

Hkind

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • Hannelotte's Garden
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2006, 10:38:00 AM »
Thanks Ian! If my relation to St Claus were better, I would try to convince him that you need the check, since we all would like the seed!

This gentian reminds me of Crawfurdia - but it is none of the species treated in the Flora of China.

Here is one more SSSE-gentian, which I cannot place. Could it be a peculiar form of G farreri??

Hannelotte
Hannelotte in Sweden

Hannelotte's Garden website:
http://www.abc.se/~m8449/

David Shaw

  • SRGC Publications Manager
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1228
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2006, 12:47:01 PM »
Do any of the Campanulas have leaves like the ones in Hannelotte's first pictures?
I like the blue one, unusually rounded petals?
Congratulations on propogating them so nicely, Hannelotte
David Shaw, Forres, Moray, Scotland

Hkind

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • Hannelotte's Garden
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2006, 02:54:18 PM »
Thank you, David! Sowing of gentians, I think, is among the easiest things to do and the climate in the middle of Sweden seems to be ideal for growing chinese gentians. - I don't think it is a Campanula. There are all the signs for Gentianaceae.

Since I have shown you two of the SSSE gentians, maybe I could show you one more? This is - without any doubt - Gentiana veitchiorum. But it is especially beautiful since the plicae are as large as the corolla lobes. That makes the flower looking like a star, don't you think? A german friend proposed a week ago, that he should propagate it in vitro to get a real big stock. Iam not sure, I want that.

Another good thing with the G veitchiorum from SSSE - both this one and others - is that they are much tougher than any G veitchiorum I have grown before. Try to bribe Santa to give Ian his check, so he can go out and collect more seed like that!

Hannelotte
Hannelotte in Sweden

Hannelotte's Garden website:
http://www.abc.se/~m8449/

ichristie

  • Former President
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1224
  • Country: scotland
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 06:58:37 PM »
Hi Hannelotte, your first Gentian picture is G. farreri which are very mixed in every shade possible. The Gentian you show as G. veitchiorum is in fact G. nialamensis which is a close relative of G. veitchiorum, we got that wrong when we sent out the seed so please can everyone change the name. Ian the Christie kind.
Ian ...the Christie kind...
from Kirriemuir

Hkind

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • Hannelotte's Garden
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2006, 07:41:11 PM »
Hi Ian,

Thank you for your comments! Could you please tell me, which reasons there were for your identification?

I have compared the botanical descriptions of the two taxa and looked at my photos and I must say, that I feel quite confused.  The differences between the two species are few and although my plant with the star formed flowers doesn't have a papillate stem, I still believe that it is a G veitchiorum (pic 1).

But I raised also another plant of the SSSE collection (sorry, no collection number left), which has a well developed basal  rosette, but doesn't really look like G veitchiorum and could of course not  be G ornata (pic 2).  The form of the corolla differs and so does the color.  The calyx is not entirely green - according to Ho Ting-nong's monograph the calyx tube  of G nyalamensis is usually  purple (not mentioned in the on-line version of Flora of China). Could it be that I got both species from your collection?

Sorry to bother you again!

Hannelotte in Sweden

Hannelotte's Garden website:
http://www.abc.se/~m8449/

ichristie

  • Former President
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1224
  • Country: scotland
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2006, 06:53:16 PM »
Hi Hannelotte, yes we are also confused by the G. nyalamensis which did vary from area to area across from Wolong to Quinghi with the flower petals and plicea almost the same length in some cases and flowers a good open trumpet with others petals were much more pointed and longer, I am assured by some learned experts that all of what we saw were G. nialamensis. We do not have to believe them and I am sure it is a MUST that I can go back again sometime for another look. cheers Ian.C.
Ian ...the Christie kind...
from Kirriemuir

Hkind

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • Hannelotte's Garden
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2006, 07:51:36 PM »
Thank you, Ian! I suppose I must accept the learnde men's identification, but I really would like to see a DNA-analysis of the whole Kudoa section! There is so much overlapping and often so small differences between species. 

 :P
Hannelotte
Hannelotte in Sweden

Hannelotte's Garden website:
http://www.abc.se/~m8449/

Jozef Lemmens

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: be
    • Alpines, the Gems of the Mountains
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 09:48:52 PM »
Does anyone know who the participants were of the SSSE expedition? I am wondering whether any of them took a photo of Androsace SSSE-125.

Jozef
Jozef Lemmens - Belgium   Androsace World   -  Alpines, the Gems of the Mountains

ichristie

  • Former President
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1224
  • Country: scotland
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2007, 10:15:47 AM »
Hi, sorry for delay, the memebers of the SSSE were as follows Ron Mcbeath at Lamberton, Jens Nielson from Glendoick Lars Danialson from Sweden and me Ian Christie Kirriemuir, I would ask Ron via his web site link on main site about your Androsace, cheers Ian the Christie kind
Ian ...the Christie kind...
from Kirriemuir

Alpinejan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Country: nl
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 04:20:21 PM »
Ians (Christie kind ) and Sjefs ( Lemmens kind )'
Questions are selfsolving sometimes, death of a plant narrows far reaching interests in name + culture. I've lost interest for SSSE androsace spec. nrs 104 and 160.
But being a friend to a good friend of mine, I'll keep asking if an ID is possible. (???)
Greeting you all,Jan

Jozef Lemmens

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: be
    • Alpines, the Gems of the Mountains
Re: Identification of Gentiana sp SSSE
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 08:17:28 PM »
Jan,

Both species (SSSE-104 and SSSE-160) are monocarpic species. SSSE-104 was collected at the West side of the Gonggan Len Pass (Sichuan). Iíve never seen or had SSSE-160. Maybe you have a picture. If so, I will try to identify. I can tell you that SSSE-104 is Androsace integra. This one was collected near the Min River below Songpan.
Monocarpic species die after flowering. I hope you collected seeds.

Tony L.,

I hope you read this here, SSSE-239 is probably a hybrid between A. mariae and stenophylla. I am not sure about this identification, because this one goes to the limits of my knowledge.

And SSSE-126 is A. brachystegia (without any doubt).

Jozef
Jozef Lemmens - Belgium   Androsace World   -  Alpines, the Gems of the Mountains

 


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal