Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Saxifraga => Topic started by: David Sellars on February 02, 2018, 01:06:41 AM
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Temperatures in this part of the world have been above freezing for all of January and although there has been endless rain and very little sun the Saxes are starting to flower. Saxifraga Franz Liszt is growing in a vertical tufa crevice under a rock overhang. This keeps the flowers dry.
Saxifraga Frederik Chopin and Saxifraga Radvan Horny are growing in a plunge bed in the Alpine Shed.
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Nice pictures David, I start with just a few flower buds in the open greenhouse.
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very nice plants, Jan and David. I can't grow them like you. Either weather or my mistake they don't look as healthy as yours.
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Kabschia Saxifrages should do well in Saskatoon, Kris. They are very cold hardy but cannot tolerate heat. Kabschias must be kept cool and moist in the summer and I have found that the best location for potted Saxifrages is on the north side of the house in complete shade most of the day but open to the sky. Shade cloth can be unsatisfactory because it traps the heat.
The best potting mix for Saxifrages has been debated over the years. Many in the UK use a mix with John Innes compost which is not available in Canada. A few years ago I visited Phil Pearson who ran a Saxifrage nursery near Seattle with Steve Doonan. The mix they originally developed had very little peat in the mix and Phil has since moved on to just using pumice.
A potting mix only with pumice is too loose for my taste as it all falls apart when a plant is repotted, plus you need a lot of pumice! I now use a mix that is about 50% coarse sand (that also contains rock dust), 25% pumice and 25% limestone chips. This mix is very free-draining but still clumps together when moist. Saxifrages love this mix and quickly grow long, healthy, well-aerated roots to the bottom of the pot. The absence of any organic matter does not seem to be a problem and in fact I believe is an advantage as it is impossible to over-water. I suspect that Saxifrage pots with soil or peat in the mix can easily get too warm in the summer. The gritty mix with no peat can be kept well-watered to keep the roots cool.
The rock dust provides mineral nutrients and very little additional fertilizing is necessary. For the potted Saxifrages I follow the fertilizing practice of Wisley Gardens with dilute high potash fertilizer just twice a year, in the fall and after flowering. It is quite possible that the pumice and limestone chips could be replaced with granite grit. But now that I am happy with my mix I have no incentive to try something different!
The following photos show how well this potting mix works. I made a cutting of Saxifraga Květy Coventry in September 2016 and potted it on in February 2017. At that time the cutting had formed only tiny roots. A year later (February 2018) growth has been vigorous and the roots are emerging from the bottom of a 90 mm deep pot. The white roots are recent root growth.
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Thank you very much for the fantastic explanations... David. I have a few saxifraga, but all outdoor in combination with various sempervivum. I'll get some more copies, though. Your comments on the substrate are therefore very helpful.
Thomas
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Good explanation David. Agree with you about the soil mixes.
With me is a part of the tuf rocks on the north side. 90% of the saxes are doing fine. Photo 1.
Another tuf rock is with me until 4 o'clock in the full sun. In case of hot weather, cool off every day with water bristles. Above 30 degrees, I put umbrellas. photo 2.
No saxifraga loss in the last 3 years. Fingers crossed.
How I made this tuf rock see here. https://tinyurl.com/the-tuf-rock (https://tinyurl.com/the-tuf-rock)
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Great to see your garden beds Jan. Your Saxifrages are doing very well. You are right that planting on the north side of rocks is key keeping the plants out of full sun at mid-day. I love your umbrellas in the summer! Adrian Young at Waterperry Gardens uses a slatted roof for shade but that has to be a permanent installation.
Here is another year and a half old cutting doing well in a 90 mm deep pot. Saxifraga Torrisholme Rose.
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David thank you for the detailed answer to my post. I got about 10 of them mostly kabschias and I usually grow them in the garden. But for the cuttings I will follow your advice. Most of my plants are planted in tufa rocks or in a vertical wall. They are OK but not very floriferous.
I have two pictures of my plants taken last year attached here.
1.Saxifrage sp ( I lost the name)
2.Saxifraga oppositifolia
both of them grow in tufa.
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David can you please tell me where you buy the limestone chips and when is the best time to grow cuttings. This year I want to increase my plants from cutting. My concern is if the saxifrage roots do I have enough time to put in the ground?
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The local feed stores are remarkably useful sources for different types of grit. I think it is something to do with turkeys. You may have a Buckerfields in Saskatoon or equivalent feed store. Below is a photo of the limestone grit bag with a sprinkling of the limestone grit on top. I use #2 granite grit for mulch in the pots. They used to manufacture it in BC (we have lots of granite) but the feed stores here now carry a product imported from Minnesota! If Donald Trump is reading this score 1 for NAFTA.
The best time for cuttings is September/October as long as they are not allowed to freeze over winter. I use a 50:50 mix of sand and vermiculite and no bottom heat. They root well over winter and can be potted up in February. The second best time for cuttings is early spring, right now in this part of the world. They root in 8-12 weeks but are still too small to plant out unless you want to plant directly into tufa. I pot them up in small pots and keep them until the following spring for planting out.
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Kris, your Saxifraga oppositifolia is a good size and has nice flowers. Sorry to hear that some of your Saxes are not very floriferous. One issue is that some Kabschia Saxifrages are not very floriferous anyway, particularly in the garden. I have been very disappointed with Allendale Angel which sounds nice but has very few flowers. In our garden some of the most floriferous are Allendale Charm, Winifred, Franz Liszt, Marianna and the early flowering Winton.
Winton is already out in the garden and contrasts nicely with Saxifraga Kathleen. Another good early plant is Saxifraga Jan Neruda seen below growing in tufa.
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Thanks David.
Your saxifrage jan neruda is very beautiful.
I think I will try my cuttings in September and try to grow them in the basement of the house . In Saskatoon it is impossible to grow them outside in winter. When I tried my cuttings I used pure sand and with rooting harmone. The cuttings rooted but not very robust.
I will try your method this time.
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Lots of flowering happening here. Saxifraga Moulin Rouge in the plunge bed. Saxifraga Joy Bishop, Bohunka and Allendale Charm in larger pots.
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David really nice saxifrage with beautiful flowers. Why are you growing them in pots. Is it because you have a green house or may be you start them indoor and plant outside later.
Saskatoon is not easy for many plants. The harsh weather and fluctuating temperature in the spring kill lot of plants. Every year in spring I grieve to see many special plants perished in winter. But soon to see new shoots appear makes me forget all the distress.
Kris
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Kris, I grow Saxifrages in pots as well as in the open garden. They flower so early that it is nice to be able to enjoy them under cover. Plus the flowers last longer as they are protected from rain. We have a Garden Room off the house that we use to display plants in flower.
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Winter has come back and we had snow today. Saxes in the tufa cliff are looking a bit bedraggled.
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The plunge bed Saxes are still very happy.
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David you have an ideal place to grow these gems. It is nice to have flowers during the winter time and saxifrage is perfect.
Yes sax needs less room and they are beautiful in flower.
Thanks for showing the plants
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David, you have a lovely collection.
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Rare mineral discovered in plants for first time
Date:
March 5, 2018
Source:
University of Cambridge
Summary:
A rare mineral that holds enticing potential as a new material for industrial and medical applications has been discovered on alpine plants.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180305101631.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180305101631.htm)
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I wonder how many Saxifrages it takes to build a bridge?
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Thanks for the link Maggi. With all the vaterite I now know I have in the garden as part of the Porphyrion Saxifrages I will have to watch out for big Pharma thieves. Here are some more hybrids from the Porphyrion Section in flower today: Saxifraga Cumulus, Thor Heyerdahl, Emil Holub, Tysoe Sunrise and Bohemian Karst.
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David, I am having a difficult time finding limestone here. Feed stores have food and salts in with their limestone grit. I have located a quarry in Shasta county called Mountain Gate Quarry: What do you recommend for the two choices of limestone?
1. 1/4" crushed chips with no fines- pure limestone
2. 1/2" crushed chips with fines and dust
I can't locate the bag of TexM.. anywhere. I recognize your climate is much different that mine in East Bay Area which is close to the Central Valley. I have the rock different sizes for top dressings, have round pellets of dolomite. I am currently putting in Tufa Boulders, but, would like to try plunge pots and your mix. Tufa plants are surviving but at a glacier pace. Thank you. Cecile
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David, I am having a difficult time finding limestone here. Feed stores have food and salts in with their limestone grit. I have located a quarry in Shasta county called Mountain Gate Quarry: What do you recommend for the two choices of limestone?
1. 1/4" crushed chips with no fines- pure limestone
2. 1/2" crushed chips with fines and dust
I can't locate the bag of TexM.. anywhere. I recognize your climate is much different that mine in East Bay Area which is close to the Central Valley. I have the rock different sizes for top dressings, have round pellets of dolomite. I am currently putting in Tufa Boulders, but, would like to try plunge pots and your mix. Tufa plants are surviving but at a glacier pace. Thank you. Cecile
Cecile. I would probably chose the 1/4 inch chips as 1/2 inch is really too big. You could hammer a few to create some rock dust in the mix.
In your part of California, the biggest issue will be keeping the Saxes cool in the summer. The potting mix has very little water holding capacity but it has the advantage that you can't over-water. So keep them well-watered and shaded (but preferably not overhead shading)
Saxifrages grow very slowly in tufa but, as they say in your part of the world, that's a feature not a bug. They stay nice and tight and some make excellent buns. It is very satisfactory to grow solid buns as hard as the surrounding rock.
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Got this as "Saxifraga oppositifolia alba (Blush)", presumably due to the pink buds which then open white
Paul
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That's a really nice plant Paul. I have never seen a white form of Saxifraga oppositifolia.
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David, I was so excited to see your post that included your recipe for a Saxifraga potting mixture. But, let me tell you what a saga trying to find the right limestone. My husband, John, graduated from Colorado School of Mines, told me no limestone will be found near west coast. I couldn't find your kind called Tex... Limestone quarries in Ohio have seven or eight different grades (sizes) of limestone, but, only $20/ton, but won't won't ship smaller amounts. Finally found an orchid supplier in Vermont with smaller zip lock bags of right size and sharp edges. Hurray! They will never will look like yours, but, maybe, I can get them to move to blooms, from barely making it.
So this weekend, once rain stops, will be repotting my two large planters, where they struggle and see what happens. Thank you again so much for sharing your expertise. Also, thanks again for your posting of walks. We have taken the ones in the Dolomites, and look forward to more. John's legs are getting worse, but, the hiking poles and lots of Neurontin gets us there.
Cecile Shepard
Wish I knew how to post pictures. I read instructions, but, seemed way too complicated. Anybody have a 1,2, 3 step recipe for success.
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Cecile, there are new gadgets in the forum for photos- if you post them in the text of messages they are automatically resized for you....
About posting photos - I know the ease of loading pix to facebook is very tempting - along with all those "like" ticks - but the SRGC Forum has undergone some changes recently and if using the (attachimg=1) code - with the square brackets (rather than the ones I've used to allow you to see without confusing the system with code) it is possible to attach larger photo sizes which will be automatically resized to the page and open in the text box.
These are the square brackets [ ]
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That's a really nice plant Paul. I have never seen a white form of Saxifraga oppositifolia.
Thanks David. White forms are available from nurseries over here. The one I pictured ('Blush'), as well as pink buds has the flowers just ever so slightly pink though this is hard to detect and photograph. I have another plant simply labelled 'alba' which is pure white in both bud and flower - Pictured below - a young plant just starting its second year in tufa.
Paul
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The tuf rock as he looks now. With mostly saxifragas
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Happy plants, Jan! It makes a most attractive feature.
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Some photos of Saxifraga plants at the Prague RGC (KSP) early Spring show in this thread :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=16179.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=16179.0) :)
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Very nice display Jan. I like that you have achieved good flowering all at the same time.
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A trio of Saxifraga ‘Coolock Kate’
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Part of the saxifrage Alpine house today
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Saxifraga ‘Allendale Jinn’
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Great to see these Saxes looking so fantastic. Once more weather here is of the sort that makes an alpine house an absolute treasure!
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Sue: Your Saxes look amazing! Outside I have a much much smaller Coolock Kate planted into an overhanging tufa block a few years ago and it hasn't grown much. The Tysoe Burgundy was recently planted in tufa. Marianna and Your Smile are in crevices between tufa blocks.
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David they are absolutely beautiful. When you grow into the tufa rock do you make a hole and insert the plant or grow in between two rocks. Do you fertilize them?
The reason I am asking is here it takes awful lot of time to bulk up saxes.
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Kris: I do both - drill holes into the tufa and grow in the crevices between the rocks. Some growers drill small holes and some prefer large holes. What works best for me are holes sized for small plants, 1-2 years old. I drill holes ⅝ inch (16mm) in diameter and to the depth of the roots, typically about 1.5 inches (38mm). I have found that it is critical to make sure the plant is well seated into the hole and I press rock chips around the rosette to keep it in place. I do not use fertilizer for saxes in the open garden. They do quite well with the available mineral nutrients. I have built a number of tufa beds and my latest bed is designed specifically for kabschia saxifrages with lots of overhangs and plants protected from the full glare of the sun in summer. Here is what it looks like today:
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Thanks David. Once the saxes fill the rocks will look fantastic.
Kris
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Sax. 'Hanicka' in the crevice garden. I love the leaf color and red stems on the flowers. The flowers are huge in comparison
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Here's a closer view that shows the Saxes in the tufa better:
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Sue...your collection is very impressive and beautiful. My admiration.
David... your wall of tuff stone is great. Very well designed and structured.
Inspired by your pictures, I became aware that I still have far too little Saxifraga...yesterday I was on a small plant market for alpine plants. So I immediately bought some small young plants.
Who can resist the fascination of the world of Saxifraga? Nobody...when they see your pictures.
Thomas
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Saxifraga 'Sissi'
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I particularly like these three newcomers... ;D
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Saxifraga x poluanglica
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Saxifraga "Allendale charm" has suffered a bit in the winter but produced 1 flower
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Lots of other plants are also showing green shoots. Since they have been planted in october on the new crevice garden I am very pleased.
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Saxifraga x poluniniana
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Saxifraga cinerea
Saxifraga 'Redpoll'
Saxifraga 'Quarry Wood'
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Saxifraga 'Donnington Pixie' is a new hybrid from Duncan Bennett which is flowering for me for the first time
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'Donnington Pixie' is a neat cultivar enjoying that tufa, Paul.
A saxy trough here today .....
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Saxifraga 'Bohemia'
An unnamed Saxifrage bought from Brian Burroughs at an SRGC show many many years ago
Saxifraga georgei
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A couple of Saxes from the garden today:-
Saxifraga 'Jaromir'
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Saxifraga 'Southside Seedling Group'
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Today...Saxifraga longifolia
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Saxifraga longifolia today, six years after first planting.
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Help please Maggie, my sax longifolia have rotated.
My pleasure, Mike!
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Saxifraga stolonifera 'Cuscutiformis'
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David, all your saxes are wonderful but that Sax. Jaromir is fantastic. What great color!
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Thanks Anne, I haven't a clue where I got Jaromir from. If you haven't already got one you would love Cuscutiformis. I divided my plant earlier in the year and I now have four plants and stacks of little rooted offsets that form on the ends of long red stolons, a good value-for-money plant.
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David, I'll be on the lookout for it although the only saxes that can grow here are the "silvers". I have lots of those and they seem to handle heat and drought reasonably well. Your garden must be wonderful.
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Aberconwy nursery in Wales sell 'Jaromir' Anne, but that's not much use to you I know. But for anyone over here who have been tempted, that's where to head. I grow it in a tufa bed and it does very well and seems easy to please....(famous last words?).
Paul
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My collection of Saxifraga fortunei cultivars really struggled this Summer and I'm not expecting a lot of them this year but this one S. f. 'Rubrifolium' in a different and more shady place has done quite well.
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My collection of Saxifraga fortunei cultivars really struggled this Summer and I'm not expecting a lot of them this year but this one S. f. 'Rubrifolium' in a different and more shady place has done quite well.
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That's nice, David. Early, too - none of mine are in flower yet. I keep one or two late flowerers in pots - like Cotton Crochet. It began to look unhealthy last week and of course the vine weevils have been busy. They just love these saxes. I have put the remains of the plant in fresh compost in the propagator, in the hope of fresh roots.
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As I said earlier I wasn't expecting many of my fortunei cultivars to flower this year so these are a nice surprise.
Saxifraga fortunei 'Gokka'
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S. f. 'Shiranami'
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S. f. 'Gelbes Monster'
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As with most of the Western coastal areas of the UK we are in a very wet spell at present but just a brief pause this morning, before another storm front sweeps in this afternoon, to take a few pictures. Some of these are beginning to look a bit ragged but given the hot Summer I'm pleased that they have flowered this year.
Saxifraga fortunei 'Black Ruby'
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Saxifraga fortunei 'Conwy Snow'
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....and another couple.
Saxifraga fortunei 'Pink Haze'
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Saxifraga fortunei 'Rokujo'
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What beautiful plants, perfectly grown, thank you for showing. I am sorry but my hot garden does not allow
a succesful cultivation or these beauties.
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Thank you Rudi.
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Zdenek Zvolanek writes:
"Great Czech Saxifraga breeder František Holenka passed quietly into blooming heaven. He made a deep hole into the rock gardening world in 1975 with his Saxifraga x ´Karel Čapek´and his all life score is 101 pretty Saxifraga Porophyllum cultivars. Glory, Glory + Hallelujah"
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Saxifraga 'Karel Capek'
And from Adrian Young : "I met František only a couple of times, but was friendly with his Saxifraga, he was a great hybridiser, he will not be forgotten. Some of his Saxifraga, he raised 85 new gems."
-and a few photos of František's cultivars from Adrian ....
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Saxifraga' Bohdalec'
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Saxifraga 'Golden Prague'
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Saxifraga 'Olsany'
Sad news indeed, condolences to his friends and family
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golden prague is one of my most reliable sax
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Far too early!
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I see what you mean regarding the Shows you can reach, Sue - but what a delight to see those plants looking so healthy and well-grown in your greenhouse!
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I could forgive it? ;D
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The first sax in flower in the garden, Klondike.
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The first sax in flower in the garden, Klondike.
Wonderful to look at... Hoy. With me the Saxifraga stand in the starting holes. Personally I like the situation shortly before the opening of the blossoms particularly well...here are two examples from today.
Greetings
Thomas