Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: kentish_lass on January 22, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
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Hello everyone
This post has nothing to do with the conference but I could not work out how to start a new subject.
I am in a state of panic after going into the garden today with my checklist to see which snowdrops are in flower. Firstly, none are in flower yet - not even the early season ones. I garden in Kent on quite heavy soil (dare I even say clay). I have been growing snowdrops for years but only the common varieties - many bought from Washfield Nursery many years ago. Two years ago I decided to get more adventurous and ordered many from Beth Chatto and a few on ebay (at realistic prices). Last year I went bananas and spent a small fortune on some very desirable and very expensive snowdrops. I carefully worked our heavy soil adding grit, sand and leaf mould and planted each bulb on a bed on sand and grit. Most are showing through now BUT I cannot see any sign of the following:- Trymlet, Diggory, Trumps, Boyd's Double, Heffalump, Marjorie Brown and I am sure there will be more. There is absolutely NO SIGN of them above ground.
My question is - am I panicking too soon? Have they probably rotted. Are they difficult cultivars? Surely everyone starts with one bulb at some point - they just seem so vulnerable as a single bulb and it is most of the singles that are missing. I feel very anxious and am wondering if maybe my soil is not suitable for snowdrops. I hasten to add that I have many many cultivars that seem to be thriving but it is the expensive treasures I invested in that seem to be missing. Any help/reassurance/guidance would be very much appreciated.
Jennie in Kent
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Jennie, I'll move this to its own thread.... very easy to start a new thread... at the top right hand side of each main section page there is a "New Topic" button ... that's in the main areas, not every page.... click it and off you go!
Since I have precisely nine snowdrops with their flowers properly turned down at the moment in my garden up here in Aberdeen (... and by that I mean nine individual blooms, not nine types of 'drop!) I wouldn't be too worried at this stage of the year.... but we have Kentish members who will be better able to tell you what is happening in their gardens.... :D
I do hope there is no need for stress at this point.... :-\
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yes you're panicking. No sign of my Majorie Browns or Heffalumps. Some of my early flowerers are only just in flower
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I would have a very gentle poke around to see if there are any signs of life.
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Jennie,
I think you are worrying too soon. Wait a while and best wishes. Paddy
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I suspect all snowdrop growers suffer some attrition, whether or not they like to talk about it. That said, surely the fact that your early season snowdrops are not yet in flower is a good sign. It means your garden was hard-hit by the cold weather and everything is delayed.
For various reasons, most of my snowdrops are currently in pots. Of my primary set of 74 pots, 11 still are showing no signs of life at all and not all the bulbs have appeared in the others. But today two more pots produced shoots and there were also shoots (much delayed) from Green Light in its garden location whereas the ones I have in pots are almost in flower. So I'm sure it is too early to despair. Also, in the current colder weather we are experiencing, I believe snowdrops will out-perform their diseases and predators so no need to act in haste.
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Thankyou everyone for your speedy replies. I may sleep tonight now ;) I dare not poke around too much yet as the bulbs are quite near each other. I will give them another week.....and then start panicking.
In Kent we have had rain for so long now that I cannot remember a dry day. I still have Narcissus & Tulips to plant as the snow came down just as they arrived and it has rained most days since the snow melted. I have more snowdrops arriving soon as well. Would it be best if I potted them until the ground dries out & would they be best in the net polytunnel or outside in the rain?
thanks again - I hope to post some photos at a later date :)
Jennie
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I still have Narcissus & Tulips to plant as the snow came down just as they arrived and it has rained most days since the snow melted.
This is very late to get bulbs planted. They should have been in the ground in September. Bulbs dehydrate and when planted moulds can get them
I have more snowdrops arriving soon as well. Would it be best if I potted them until the ground dries out & would they be best in the net polytunnel or outside in the rain?
In the ground
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I know its late Mark and I am very concerned about them. I asked for a late delivery for middle of November to give me time to prepare the ground.....and then it snowed. They are hanging in net sacks in my potting shed with good air circulation but I have noticed some have got mould on them. I just do not know what to do with them. Will they root if I plant them now? I have to do something with them. Our ground is so muddy and wet.
Sorry for deviating as I know this is a snowdrop forum but I know you are all knowledgable on bulbs in general.
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but it is the expensive treasures I invested in that seem to be missing.
Jennie - How many times have I said that this year? We all lose bulbs and over here they are all very expensive by the time they arrive. If you've had a blast of winter I am sure they will poke up later. Ones away from the house here are frozen stiff now and will not surface until late February or more likely late March. Ones close to the house are showing flower buds between the leaves, the ground is bare and hard as rock, we are to go to -14c for the next few nights. Then 35cm of snow on Thursday which means the ground will stay frozen for months. Still I bet those buds will sruvive just fine. Galanthus are tough.
Yours are probably making a good solid root system before they surface.
Fingers crossed.
BTW a few friends have planted Narcissus and Tulips as late as March and sometimes they do well but flower later. Our very cool wet springs probably assist rooting.
johnw
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Last year my local garden centre was selling crates of 500 tulip bulbs for £10 in late October. I managed to give away about 100 but that still left 400 to plant. I was still planting tulips in January and the ones I planted last flowered first!
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Jennie, if your ground is wet and waterlogged and you don't feel it's suitable for planting when the new snowdrops arrive - in the green obviously - then I would pot them up until the soil drains and is more suitable for planting. Nothing will benefit from being shoved into cold waterlogged soil at this time of year.
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Hi Jennie,
I would concur with Martin, planting in pots is much better than planting in soggy wet soil when your snowdrops arrive (also a good tip if the ground is frozen). I would also suggest you plant your Narcissus in pots also if you can't get them in the ground soon although you may have losses now.
Your Tulips should still be OK as Alan says these can take a later planting more than other spring bulbs can.
I must add that I'm no expert and just speaking from my experience. I like you are rather new to the world of Galanthus (other than the common ones) and it can be a rather addictive and exspensive pass time but very rewarding all the same.
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Yes, Jennie... I'd think it would be a good solution to get all your bulbs planted in pots as soon as you can in this weather... no point at all in trying to force the poor things into soggy clay to get frozen again anytime!
We've got frozen potting compost here at the minute but I would hope you might be able to get some from the garden centre to get the dry bulbs potted now.... they'll keep in the potting then till the weather is better and they can be hardened off.
Give them a spoonfull of bone meal mixed through the potting compost to give them a wee treat when they grow.... I'm sure they'll be fine. Bulbs are survival experts!
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Sorry Jennie, re your other query, once you've potted the new snowdrops they'd be best somewhere sheltered, so the net polytunnel would be a good idea at least until they've had a couple of weeks to settle in.
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There is a really good article on growing snowdrops by Chris Sanham in the Daffodil, Snowdrop and Tulip Yearbook 2008-2009, good not least because he starts out by saying there is no agreed perfect formula for growing snowdrops.
I have been successfully growing at least some snowdrops in pots since 2004. It all started when my precious single bulb of Wendy's Gold managed only the tiniest of tiny shoots, late in the season. The reason why is shown below. I figured (correctly, it seems) that the bulb might be safer in a pot. I use a John Innes compost or similar, sometimes with some sand mixed-in, and big 3 litre pots for maybe 3 to 5 snowdrops at most. I have been known to feed the pots with Tomorite, but never frequently or consistently. In summer the pots get dumped in a shady location, say underneath a hedge, and completely neglected. If a snowdrop remains potted long-term I will change the soil every three years or so but this is mostly to thin-out the snowdrops rather than from the certain knowledge that this is necessary. Surprisingly the snowdrops have done quite well under this regime. The main threat seems to be squirrels trying to bury chestnuts in the pots in autumn and disturbing the contents. I have taken to labelling the actual pots with a silver paint marker pen because labels in the pots are too easily lost.
That's about the sum total of my wisdom on growing snowdrops but what I do know is they can be grown in pots. The snowdrop below survived and prospered.
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Hi Jennie
I've just been out into my Kentish garden and had a look for the ones you mention (my small garden has a wall all the way around it and I am in the centre of a town). Trymlet is only just above the soil (1cm), Diggory hates my garden - I have tried it twice and it just goes into decline and this year I am down to one tiny leaf, Trumps is about 3 inches high with flowers heading skyward, Marjorie Brown same as Trumps, Heffalump is only just above ground (1.5cm).
I am sure some of yours will be showing soon.
p.s. if you fancy visiting one day please PM me :)
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Sandy Leven, who has a large collection of snowdrops, grows them all in pots. Anyone who has seen the display he brings to the Early Bulb Day at Dunblane can attest that those plants are growing well!
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Hello Jennie, I think it has just about all been said. I've planted tulips in January before now and they have been fine ;) One thing to remember is, that if the worst comes to the worst and you have lost something, don't throw the pot contents away, check for remnants of a bulb which will, in time probably make a new bulb and give you the snowdrop you wanted. All is not last, as Maggie said they are survivors. Last year I was really annoyed to find that a rabbit/squirrel/something had scooped out the contents of a lattice pot in the ground and eaten the bits of the bulb and shoot that it could get to. The remnants were put in pure silver sand and it seems to have survived, although flowering will be a couple of years away. Good Luck, don't panic, that's what happens all the time to all of us :-\
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This, I think, is my Trumps (although I'm not yet certain because there is another cultivar still to emerge in the same pot). It came by kind courtesy of KentGardener last year, so not yet well-established. It's about an inch (2.5 cm) out of the ground and surfaced around 14th January.
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Had another check on the snowdrops today - no change! John - I am concerned now that you say your Trumps is almost flowering and mine is not showing at all. I was so pleased to manage to get Trumps from North Green as the rest of my order was sold out. I just got Trumps and Primrose Warburg - which is thankfully showing through the ground. I took photos of Trumps from every angle when it arrived and will be very sad if it is gone. I think if I lose all the bulbs (amounting to over £200) I will be reluctant to invest in an expensive cultivar again. Apart from this year as my orders have already gone through!
However John, you say your garden is quite small and walled which would make it more sheltered than mine. Hopefully yours is ahead of mine. I would love to visit your garden when the snowdrops are in full bloom as Gillingham is not too far from me as long as I use my Satnav. I am not sure of the term PM? ::)
Alan - that is very interesting how you grow your snowdrops in pots especially using John Innes which is a heavy soil. I had a bad experience growing my snowdrops in pots about 10 years ago. I ordered some lovely cultivars and potted them up - they flowered beautifully. I left them outside all summer and when I finally found a place to plant them I discovered most of them had rotted away. Among them was Sandersii, Three Ships, nivalis Virescens, Walrus etc etc. I was still busy designing my garden so decided NOT to buy any more bulbs until I could put them straight into the ground. Now here I am potting them again - for different reasons though.
I
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Me again
When I think back to some of the bulbs that have not shown yet - Boyd's Double, Diggory and Heffalump were very small bulbs and I was nervous about planting them at the time. Another that was very small was Wasp....and that has not shown yet either. I am hoping it is not my very heavy soil which is less than ideal. However, I planted Hunton Giant in a hurry adding no grit and not much care and that is coming up nice and strong. It does not make sense.
We do have a small wooded area which we only use for walking the little dogs. I am wondering if the snowdrops would be better up there. We tried to establish some nivalis years ago and had to plant them with a kango as it was so root bound!! They are in dire need of splitting now but I dread the job. I wonder if I could make some raised beds around the trees using logs as edging. Does anyone have any idea how deep the beds would need to be? There is the problem of wildlife digging them up in the woods though. Problems, problems.
Has anyone seen G. E A Bowles on ebay? It is up to £180 with a day to go :o
Jennie
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Jennie... what kind of little dogs? :) .......http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6476.90
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Hi Maggi
We have Milly a Chi-poo (toy poodle mum x long haired Chihuahua dad) - she is pure white with curly fur and is adorable. She suffered spine damage out of the blue last year and lost use of her back legs. She is on all fours now but walks badly so walking is her therapy. We also have a short haired Chihuahua - Lola - got as a friend for Milly ;) Then we took on my uncles smooth haired Pomeranian when he died, did not really want a male dog with two females but so far so good. We also have Tansy who is a fourteen year old King Charles Spaniel (flat faced variety) but she does not walk much ;) I take it you like little dogs?
Jennie
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John, ... I am not sure of the term PM? ::)
Stands for Personal Message. If you click on the contributors name you will see their personal profile. Under Additional Information at the bottom, click on "Send this member a personal message"
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Jennie, I love all dogs!! Please post some photos in the thread I gave the link for... there are a lot of animal lovers on the Forum.
To follow up on Alan's meassage about the Personal Message.... I'll send you one now..... soon you should see a number in brackets e.g. (1) beside the My Messages icon in the list at the top of each page, under your details, fifth from the left.
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Jennie my Trumps in the ground has only just come through and Heffalump this week so all is, hopefully, not lost.
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Brian can i ask if your blewberry tart is up the is no sign so far of the bulb you gave me last year,also Hayden i got from Paul Christian doesn't want to show its face either but like everybody has said there's plenty of time yet.
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Davey my Haydns arent up
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Brian can i ask if your blewberry tart is up the is no sign so far of the bulb you gave me last year,also Hayden i got from Paul Christian doesn't want to show its face either but like everybody has said there's plenty of time yet.
If it's any conselation my Hadyn and Handel from Paul Christian are not showing either. My Blewberry Tart which I planted last August is also not showing through, but after the weather we've had I'm not too worried yet.
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Cheers for that lads i can breathe a sigh of relief.
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Thanks for the explanation of PM - I thought it would be something very obvious :)
My, this snowdrop collecting is like an expensive game of Russian roullette. As you will all know the more common nivalis 'Viridapice' simply thrives on heavier soils and mine multiplies like crazy. Does anyone know of any other cultivars that love heavy soil as well? Maybe that is the direction I should be heading. My soil is very heavy but I do improve it constantly, but when it rains for long periods I can imagine the little bulbs could suffer. What more can I do to help them? More grit and more sand when planting?
thanks Jennie
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Brian can i ask if your blewberry tart is up
Hi Davey
Only just out of the soil here - and I mean 'only just'.
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If it's not been said before... try growing in pots and put them in a greenhouse.
I live in East Sussex in an area with terrible clay. In fact, they used to make bricks here.
The local pub used to be called the Brickmakers Arms.
I keep 95% of my varieties in pots. I overwinter them in a greenhouse. It keeps the worst of the frost off them and they don't get too wet.
And I get to look at them close up without getting my knees wet!
I'll contemplate planting out permanently some of the more expensive ones when I've built sufficient quantities of stock.
One last thing, in parts of the garden I got a man with a digger to remove the top 18 inches of clay.
Otherwise, it breaks your heart to have to use a crowbar to plant some poor wee delicate item.
Regards, Malcolm.
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Brian can i ask if your blewberry tart is up the is no sign so far of the bulb you gave me last year.
Sorry Davey just seen your question, mine are only just showing so panic not!
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Jennie
You've had a lot of good advice already on this thread,which I won't repeat.
There is no doubt that growing snowdrops takes strong nerve. Some flourish whilst others (often expensively-bought) sulk and disappear. The flourishers and sulkers vary from garden to garden and soil-type to soil-type. My sulker is another's flourisher. I have learned that, if I really want to grow a sulker, I am going to have to buy again, experiment with different garden situations and maybe coddle a bulb in a pot for a while, as some Forumists have suggested. My bank manager would pale to discover how often I have grimly acquired replacement bulbs in this situation.
A half way house worth considering is to plant a newly-acquired bulb in an aquatic-type lattice pot, amidst well-drained compost and plant the pot plus bulb in the ground with decent prepared drainage (i.e. grit or sand) underneath, as Chris Sanham advocates.
Whilst most of my snowdrop varieties are now showing (but a minority of these have yet to flower), I have about seventy varieties still to appear, so don't think all is lost yet. I know that some of my absentees will appear, and I know from experience that some will have given up. I have embarked on a long-term programme to exhume all varieties, divide, fungicide, and replant in lattice pots. It will take forever but I am pretty sure it will reduce the annual loss rate to a minimum and probably also result in healthier clumps. I also know that late appearance often means ill-health; such bulbs become candidates foe early exhumation, inspection, fungiciding and replanting.
Finally, when acquiring bulbs, trust no-one. Wash every acquisition in fungicide, and plant it away from others until at least a growing season has convinced you that you have a healthy plant. When I started I didn't observe this golden rule and boy have I learned the hard way.
Good luck!
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Finally, when acquiring bulbs, trust no-one....
I think this is very good advice but it sounds a bit negative. It's not that the snowdrop world is full of unscrupulous individuals, just fallible human beings. The commercial grower may be too busy to subject all their snowdrop to scrupulous inspection. The amateur may not recognise some of the signs of disease (for example, I don't think one would necessarily spot a bulb with a mild and possibly treatable case of Stagonospora curtisii until one has learned what a more-severe case looks like). So putting new bulbs into quarantine for a while is a sensible precaution, just to ensure that if any problems arise then the potential for them to spread is minimised.
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I've red this theme with a big interest and wonder. I grow snowdrops in open garden in heavy soil. Everywhere I saw them in nature they grow in the same soil covered with leaf mulch. Of course I am far from Kent and have only a few rare kinds. But I've newer known I have to fungicide their bulbs and cover them. :-\ I planted them and they grew.
Late appearance could mean you had cold winter and soil was frosted. It's normal and it's good for some species and bad for others. Don't panic just wait. :)
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Hi Olga
The snowdrops that grow naturally in Russia, the UK, or wherever, do so because either they have a strong constitution or a long familiarity with the growing conditions (soil, climate) or both. Some of the exotic new snowdrop varieties don't have a strong constitution, nor that familiarity with the growing conditions. Consequently they need a lot of care to keep them flourishing or even alive. There is a parallel here with rose varieties, where over a period of time exotic varieties have died out as they have been supplanted with roses of stronger constitution against, for example, black spot. The current feverish development of new galanthus cultivars does not square with the truism familiar to all old-time gardeners; is a plant strong, reliable, will it last? The original Snowdrops monograph was first published in 2001, and ten years later many of the varieties listed never appear - anywhere. Indeed, I was told last week by the galanthophile who discovered them that six of the varieties listed in Snowdrops have died out from his garden, and probably elsewhere too. If a plant is so difficult that it cannot be readily propagated and distributed in ten years, what does that tell us about the plant's robustness, hardiness and the likelihood of it persisting into a reliable garden plant?
Steve
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Good news!! Trumps & Trymlet are through :) That has restored my faith no end. Those were the two I was the most upset about losing. I do not have much faith in Diggory or Heffalump ....but we will see.
Thanks so much for all your help and advice. I think I will try to learn the art of nurturing expensive ones in pots until they bulk up. Funny enough I have a group of nivalis singles which i dug up last year and soaked in fungicide as I think they had stagonospora. I put them in a pot with no care and put them outside away from all snowdrops - today I noticed they are poking through good and strong!! I need to get brave and not pamper them so much.
I am so HAPPY about my two snowdrops today - I could have kissed the ground :)
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The original Snowdrops monograph was first published in 2001, and ten years later many of the varieties listed never appear - anywhere. Indeed, I was told last week by the galanthophile who discovered them that six of the varieties listed in Snowdrops have died out from his garden, and probably elsewhere too. If a plant is so difficult that it cannot be readily propagated and distributed in ten years, what does that tell us about the plant's robustness, hardiness and the likelihood of it persisting into a reliable garden plant?
Two suggestions (although wandering off the original topic)
- Snowdrops should not be included in the next edition of the "Snowdrops ..." monograph unless a reasonable supposition can be made that there are more than 100 in existence (which, I think, would currently exclude my own discovery, "Green Light").
- There should be a missing, presumed dead section (which might even result in some of the entries being rediscovered).
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Jennie,
Good to hear the long-awaited snowdrops have put in an appearance. Like you, I have been anxiously awaiting the appearance of a plicatus snowdrop with green tips on the outer segments and also a poculiform elwesii. Both have appeared. Joy!
The comments made by Steve and Alan, and so often by Martin, that a snowdrop should have a good constitution, be likely to grow in most gardens are very valid.
Paddy
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Well said Alan.
My nivalis Mini Me is back up but since finding it in 2006 it has only increased to two bulbs. It won't appear in Alan's book either. Maybe it should be twinned this year.
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Alan,
your 'Green Light' is on ebay!
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Two suggestions (although wandering off the original topic)
- Snowdrops should not be included in the next edition of the "Snowdrops ..." monograph unless a reasonable supposition can be made that there are more than 100 in existence (which, I think, would currently exclude my own discovery, "Green Light").
- There should be a missing, presumed dead section (which might even result in some of the entries being rediscovered).
Alan, I noticed that Mrohowes is selling your snowdrop on e-bay but he has no picture with it.
Would it be possible for you or anyone else who has it to post an image on here, would be much appreciated.
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Well here is what a pot of Green Light looked like earlier today, although the photograph was taken as a record of development rather than to show it off to best effect. You can see the green tip on the outer of the flower that has dropped and the colour of the leaves. Having both these features on the same snowdrop makes it unique.
Hmm the description says:
"The first green-tipped, green-leaved snowdrop, an amazing combination." - Well you may or may not be amazed but I think it's the only one of its kind.
"The amount of green tipping can vary from season to season." - True, there is always some green tipping but the one in the photograph is about as strong as it gets.
"Medium vigour and mid-season. Discovered in the Cambridge area a few years ago." - I'm pretty sure that pot started with a single bulb in 2009 so at the moment that one's in vigour-overdrive! It is also on the early side of typical nivalis snowdrops.
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Fantastic :P
Thanks Alan!
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Steve,
I understand what you are talking about. The same things I can say about auriculas. Species plants are much sturdier than cultivars.
No snowdrops are native to Moscow area. But some species we grow are of wide ecological amplitude and tolerate to our climate and weather.
And I also agree with you and Alan. No reasons to hurry with listing new cultivars.
Jennie, my congratulations! :) ‘Snowdrop joy in Kent’. :D