Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: johnw on December 31, 2010, 05:44:56 PM
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Let the season begin! ;D ;D ;D
johnw
Edit by Maggi: Though John made this post on the last day of 2010, I think it is more cheering to have these photos as the start of a new thread for 2011 :D
Galanthus Ding Dong DSCN0152.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Benton Magnet DSCN0160.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Bess DSCN0162.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Bess DSCN0163.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Fieldgate Prelude DSCN0156.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Hans Guck in die Luft DSCN0155.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Mrs. MacNamara DSCN0154.JPG.jpg
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Six more.
16c in the greenhouse today despite windows open. Far too warm.
johnw -
sunny +5c
Galanthus plicatus Green Peace DSCN0159.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Richard Ayres aberrant DSCN0167.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Richard Ayres DSCN0166.JPG.jpg
Galanthus rizehensis DSCN0153.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Silver Wells DSCN0161.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Sutton Courtenay DSCN0158.JPG.jpg
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And the last of them.
Roots! We like to see roots.
johnw
Galanthus elwesii green tips DSCN0164.JPG.jpg
Galanthus elwesii green tips roots DSCN0165.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Compton Court DSCN0157.JPG.jpg
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First leaves up in my pots of 2010 snowdrop chips. Over 100 pots X an average of say 20 chips per pot = where the hell am I going to grow them all? Quite a lot of leaves up in the 2010 seed pots too. Same story there. Maybe fewer pots but more seedlings to a pot, so same long-term quandary. Why do I do it?
Retire on the proceeds? ;D
johnw
Retire? What's that? I'll never be able to afford to retire. I'll be working till I drop (no pun intended).
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A lovely selection, John, and so very clean - a benefit of being grown under cover.
The aberrant 'Richard Ayres' has an interesting and attractive marking.
Paddy
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Retire? What's that? I'll never be able to afford to retire. I'll be working till I drop (no pun intended).
I retire the day before I die
Roland
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And the last of them.
Roots! We like to see roots.
johnw
Galanthus elwesii green tips DSCN0164.JPG.jpg
Galanthus elwesii green tips roots DSCN0165.JPG.jpg
Galanthus Compton Court DSCN0157.JPG.jpg
john your greentips is lovely very nice indeed
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What a treat to start off the New Year, cheers John
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Tidying dead stems in the garden today I see many snowdrops are pushing up fast. We've had the warmest week since before November. No need for a fleece. My Three Ships is finally showing a flower
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John, stop posting lovely snowdrop pictures at once! You have got me wondering what I may have starting to flower at home when I should be enjoying Madeira!
(p.s. thank you really ;D)
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John,
I was going to tease you yesterday and say all your snowdrops were blooming while you were away but it seems the thought strayed into your mind of its own accord.
Mark, by coincidence, G. 'Three Ships' is showing here also. Not enough sun to open the flowers but it will come, I hope. G. 'Peter Gatehouse' which came up in early November has only opened its flowers in the last week or so. The cold weather obviously suspended its development
Paddy
Galanthus 'Three Ships'
Galanthus 'Peter Gatehouse'
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My Peter Gatehouse has only just come up.
With lots of white starting to show I put slug pellets out yesterday to stop damage. Pity the -13 didnt wipe out slugs. They must have antifreeze in their blood
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John, I doubt you're missing anything much. All the snowdrops seem to be have been held right back by the cold. All I have is a few buds on Faringdon Double.
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It`s a good feeling, to see you galanthophile all here also in 2011 in best conditions.
It will becoming a good season, sorry, a good spring season and I hope a good autumn season too.
This is the good luck of the galanthophile.
We get two seasons in only one year.
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Hello JohnW.
There is a little mistake in your collection. Have a look to GREEN PEACE!?!
Thank you for the other drops. They give a lot of confidence.
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:-[ too long without snowdrops. I didnt notice it was wrong
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Hello JohnW.
There is a little mistake in your collection. Have a look to GREEN PEACE!?!
Thank you for the other drops. They give a lot of confidence.
Good eye Hagen but Brian noticed it first in a pm! Any idea what it might be?
Also the Fieldgate Prelude appears to be mis-labelled. I was making notes in the greenhouse yesterday when suddenly I noticed for the first time there was a problem. Whilst the markings are close - it's a grex - the leaves are entirely wrong. Here are the leaves. I will contact the source and see if they can offer a name. In the meantime any ideas on that one?
johnw
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Nothing wrong with your Fieldgate Prelude unless mine is wrong also
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthus%20fieldgate%20prelude.html (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthus%20fieldgate%20prelude.html)
or could yours be John Gray?
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/john-gray.html (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/john-gray.html)
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The time will soon be here for looking around garden centres to see if ther are any interesting Galanthus elwesii. I bought this one in January 2009 and it is increasing well.
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John, Fieldgate Prelude has narrow leaves like its parent, Mrs Macnamara. It also tends to split up into a lot of small bulbs when grown in a pot, which is what yours looks like it's doing - and when it does that the leaves of the many small offset bulbs are even more narrow and un-elwesii-like.
Just went to check mine, which are doing the same thing in pots, and the smaller offsets have leaves just like yours - not convolute but applanate-looking and very narrow.
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Checked the snowdrops this sunny morning and it is starting well.
New seedlings and the chips are producing a flower too!
A good start for 2011!
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New seedlings and the chips are producing a flower too!
Big Boy x Dutch Windmill Gerard?
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John, Fieldgate Prelude has narrow leaves like its parent, Mrs Macnamara. It also tends to split up into a lot of small bulbs when grown in a pot, which is what yours looks like it's doing - and when it does that the leaves of the many small offset bulbs are even more narrow and un-elwesii-like.
Just went to check mine, which are doing the same thing in pots, and the smaller offsets have leaves just like yours - not convolute but applanate-looking and very narrow.
Martin - Just re-read the Monograph which states the leaves are as Mrs. MacNamara 8.5 x 13.5cm!! :o. and an elwesii. It also says Fieldgate Prelude is an elwesii, at least in the index whilst in the text it merely says the grex is ex Mrs. MacNamara. Somewhat baffled.
johnw
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:-[ too long without snowdrops. I didnt notice it was wrong
Mark
I guess we're all just coming out of hibernation. I seem to be missing the obvious lately.
johnw
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John, Fieldgate Prelude has narrow leaves like its parent, Mrs Macnamara. It also tends to split up into a lot of small bulbs when grown in a pot, which is what yours looks like it's doing - and when it does that the leaves of the many small offset bulbs are even more narrow and un-elwesii-like.
Just went to check mine, which are doing the same thing in pots, and the smaller offsets have leaves just like yours - not convolute but applanate-looking and very narrow.
Thanks for that Martin, a most useful titbit of information, are there others that behave the same way? I must admit that my Fieldgate Prelude is in the ground so I had not noticed this tendency.
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The time will soon be here for looking around garden centres to see if ther are any interesting Galanthus elwesii. I bought this one in January 2009 and it is increasing well.
Melvyn,
That certainly looks a good snowdrops and the fact that it increases well is a very worthwhile feature also.
Good find. Paddy
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Mrs Mcnamara is definitely an elwesii though a slightly unusual one with its narrow leaves and inner mark that doesn't look very elwesii-like. That leaf width measurement must be a mistake. In the description Matt describes the leaves as narrow. It's also a known tetraploid with double the genetic material of a normal diploid plant, so seedlings will tend to look very much like the parent (since it contributes double the normal amount of genetic material to the cross) unless it crosses with another polyploid adding as much genetic material.
Mature bulbs of Fieldgate Prelude have similar narrow elwesii leaves to Mrs Mcnamara. The cross that produced them was most likely with another elwesii in Colin Mason's garden but it could have been with a plicatus or some other species which contributed less genetic material so that the seedlings showed no characteristics other than from the elwesii Mrs Mcnamara parent. But I'd guess it was Mrs Mcnamara x diploid elwesii.
Brian, I think most elwesii if they're very small bulbs will produce thin leaves that are only weakly convolute.
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Fieldgate Prelude was a selected grex from the Mrs Mcnamara seedlings in Colin's garden. The other seedlings selected out looked like Mrs Mcnamara. I've always wondered what happened to those seedlings. Did they ever in some way get into circulation as Mrs Mcnamara? In which case the Mrs Mcnamara being grown now may be a mix of the original clone and a grex from that cross. I keep meaning to ask Colin about that. I expect he'll say that's not likely, but I'd still be interested to know what happened to those look-alikes.
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Martin - Are there many other tetraploid Galanthus cultivars or species? It might be an interesting line in your work to try inducing polyploidism into some of the best ones. I wouldn't have an idea how to go about it with monocots but it is not terribly difficult in dicots these days. My guess is you would have to expose a sprouting seed to the chemical so the developing bulb was affected whereas in dicots oftentimes only the top of the plant is exposed to it leaving the roots diploid. Then always a good chance diploid cells will overtake the creation.
johnw - +4, a bit of drizzle
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John, there are no other known existing tetraploids. That's one of the major breeding problems. Only one know tetraploid and most known triploids are hybrid triploids and therefore have very, very low fertility.
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Nice find Melvyn. I had one a couple of years ago that looked similar and I had high hopes for - alas it didnīt appear in 2010. :'(
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Big Boy is right Brian ;D
Dutch Windmill not :-[
Dutch Windmill is a spike and its sterile.
Its Daglingworth ;)
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You can get more tetraploid snowdrops when you treat diploids with NO2 in a gascontainer with 5 atm during 8 to 10 hours. When you look at the pollen under a microscope 70 to 80 % has doubled. You can do the same with the less fertile triploids and end up with hexaploid pollen 50 to 60 %.
I have stopped with the experiments because it took to much time and i have a good choice from several very nice snowdrops to use as parents.
When you know that only 1 % of all the new seedlings is worth saving, i try to make the best combinations with using good growers and those who are immune for stago,botrytus, virus, etc
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Last year I collected seeds from a lot of elwesii that had been sprayed with
herbicide as they were emerging. They germinated just fine, and in about
five years I should know if any had their ploidy changed.
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Or there appear clones that are resistant against herbicide ;D
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Gerard - Haver you tried Surflan (10μM Oryzalin solution) to induce polyploidy? It's a pre-emergent herbicide and has been quite successful on perennials if the emerging seedling is immersed. I tried it on bamboo seedlings in 1999 in the hope of getting bigger Fargesias. They are still under 50cm tall.
I found a bunch of nicely variegated Acer rubrum seedlings one year and dug them up. They all quickly reverted to the type the following year. I found out later the area had been sprayed with Roundup.
johnw - +3c, a few snowflakes ocassionally.
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I haver never tried or going to try to use herbicide, because i am afraid that the concentration will be too high and with herbicide the DNA structure can be damaged too!
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I have a couple of elwesii that I'm starting to think (from seed raising results) may be hexaploids, so I'm starting to use them. It all takes so bloody long to see results though. If you find you're on the wrong track with certain crosses, it can be a lot of time wasted.
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I haver never tried or going to try to use herbicide, because i am afraid that the concentration will be too high and with herbicide the DNA structure can be damaged too!
Using the precise polyploiding mix rate for Surflan I had not a single loss of the fragile sprouting seedlings.
johnw
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I have a couple of elwesii that I'm starting to think (from seed raising results) may be hexaploids, so I'm starting to use them. It all takes so bloody long to see results though. If you find you're on the wrong track with certain crosses, it can be a lot of time wasted.
Martin
Not wasted time, results from such experiments - successful or not - always give valuable information. Keep at it.
johnw
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I keep it in mind John, but like Martin says it takes soo bloody long. And instead spending lots of time and money on these experiments you forget or neglect to breed the ones you think they could be a good combination!
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I think you can tell a polyploid by the size of the stomata which are
larger than those of a diploid. I don't know whether this would work
well with a monocot, though.
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Big Boy is right Brian ;D
Dutch Windmill not :-[
Dutch Windmill is a spike and its sterile.
Its Daglingworth ;)
Wow Big Boy and Daglingworth, what size will the result be I wonder! Keep us posted Gerard ;)
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Big Boy is right Brian ;D
Dutch Windmill not :-[
Dutch Windmill is a spike and its sterile.
Its Daglingworth ;)
Wow Big Boy and Daglingworth, what size will the result be I wonder! Keep us posted Gerard ;)
Big enough to be a better idea give up and grow Leucojums, I expect ;) ;D
PS: I've made this a new thread for January 2011.
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Apparently Hans Guck had his eyes closed (or was it a veil?) in my previous posting, here he is wide-eyed. Compton Court seems very late this year. Also a few others including the very tiny Magnet type 6384, rizehensis and very long distance shot of Wendy's Gold (why are blondes so difficult, especially that one from Norfolk?).
johnw - 0c and ground bare & frozen
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...(why are blondes so difficult, especially that one from Norfolk?).
Presumably because she is a nivalis sandersii, and I hope she is not too difficult as I have not seen her poke through the ground yet!
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...(why are blondes so difficult, especially that one from Norfolk?).
Presumably because she is a nivalis sandersii, and I hope she is not too difficult as I have not seen her poke through the ground yet!
Brian - She has gotten up out of the bed yet here either!
johnw
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I think you can tell a polyploid by the size of the stomata which are
larger than those of a diploid. I don't know whether this would work
well with a monocot, though.
To be 100% sure you have to let it check in a laboratory, very expensive per sample Diane!
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Big Boy is right Brian ;D
Dutch Windmill not :-[
Dutch Windmill is a spike and its sterile.
Its Daglingworth ;)
Wow Big Boy and Daglingworth, what size will the result be I wonder! Keep us posted Gerard ;)
Big enough to be a better idea give up and grow Leucojums, I expect ;) ;D
PS: I've made this a new thread for January 2011.
I do have Leucojum too but snowdrops are more fun ;D
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Big Boy is right Brian ;D
Dutch Windmill not :-[
Dutch Windmill is a spike and its sterile.
Its Daglingworth ;)
Wow Big Boy and Daglingworth, what size will the result be I wonder! Keep us posted Gerard ;)
That will be 2016 i think Brian ;D
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Just out of interest has anyone ever tried crossing Galanthus with Leucojum ? I am guessing if it were possible such plants would all ready exist somewhere .
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That will be 2016 i think Brian ;D
It's a good job we are patient gardeners and not those that appear on television wanting instant results ;D ;D
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That will be 2016 i think Brian ;D
It's a good job we are patient gardeners and not those that appear on television wanting instant results ;D ;D
What do you mean?
I want instant results. In fact, I want it yesterday.
Patience! Rubbish!
Paddy
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Just out of interest has anyone ever tried crossing Galanthus with Leucojum ? I am guessing if it were possible such plants would all ready exist somewhere .
I don't know the answer to this question but I know there have been remarkably few attempts made to breed snowdrops. Just compare and contrast with daffodils.
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Just out of interest has anyone ever tried crossing Galanthus with Leucojum ? I am guessing if it were possible such plants would all ready exist somewhere .
I don't know the answer to this question but I know there have been remarkably few attempts made to breed snowdrops. Just compare and contrast with daffodils.
perhaps i shall try. Im not sure if the plant if it were to work would be a thing of beauty :-\
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Very true Alan. Every March I go to Brian Duncan, the N Irish daffodil breeder who turned from standard daffs to miniatures, I see new must have beauties.
Two forum members and one lurker are breeding Galanthus. I'm trying to get a photo from the lurker to show what has been produced
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That will be 2016 i think Brian ;D
It's a good job we are patient gardeners and not those that appear on television wanting instant results ;D ;D
What do you mean?
I want instant results. In fact, I want it yesterday.
Patience! Rubbish!
Paddy
If i had the chance to obtain a Big Boy 5 years earlier, i could have given you a instant result ;D On the other hand i do have other results that i will post in 2016 Ok! ;D
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Just out of interest has anyone ever tried crossing Galanthus with Leucojum ? I am guessing if it were possible such plants would all ready exist somewhere .
I've tried a couple of times but no luck, and Joe Sharman once told me he'd tried a number of years in a row without success.
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Gerard,
I will wait with patience to see what you such patient people develop in the years to come. I will have to pleasure of enjoying your patient work.
Every success. Paddy
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I've tried a couple of times but no luck, and Joe Sharman once told me he'd tried a number of years in a row without success.
[/quote]
I did think it would have been attempted before or occured in someones garden. What species of Leucojum did you try may i ask ? I was thinking of trying with Leucojum vernum.
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I've tried a couple of times but no luck, and Joe Sharman once told me he'd tried a number of years in a row without success.
I did think it would have been attempted before or occured in someones garden. What species of Leucojum did you try may i ask ? I was thinking of trying with Leucojum vernum.
[/quote]
That's what Joe said he'd tried. I tried both vernum and aestivum.
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:-\ I guess i could try one of those dinky autumn flowering Leucojum (dont think they are Leucojum anymore ) Or just not try and hope the bees have better luck.
Thanks for the info Martin :)
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At this moment, Galanthus plicatus 'Colossus' is almost flowering.
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:-\ I guess i could try one of those dinky autumn flowering Leucojum (dont think they are Leucojum anymore ) Or just not try and hope the bees have better luck.
Thanks for the info Martin :)
A Zebra and a Lippizaner are both family but you cant use neither of them for breeding. The structure of the Leucojumpollen are not the same as the structure of the Galanthuspollen it just doesn't fit.There might be some result but these dont survive. A copple years ago we tried to breed with Fritillaria and Lilium to get growingtime, for the cutflowermarket from 12 weeks to 4 weeks. This would have saved a lot of energy and extra times of cutting flowers in the greenhouses. And i finally could have ordered that new Aston Martin ;D
We did end up with a few Liliarias or Frittiliums but they were to week. :'(
If we had read the Origin of species from Charles Darwin it would have saved us a lot of time ;D
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I think you need to set your sights a bit lower, Gerard. How many nurserymen do you know who drive Aston Martins? Well, apart from Ian Christie obviously. :)
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I am still driving my old Jensen interceptor mk2 from 1971 and Ian a Japanese 4wd. I think Joe Sharman must have somewhere in a shed a nice Ferrari by now ;D
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I did think it would have happened already if it were possible. I shall just try crossing snowdrops with snowdrops then ;D
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I think you need to set your sights a bit lower, Gerard. How many nurserymen do you know who drive Aston Martins? Well, apart from Ian Christie obviously. :)
As i remember Ian once had a Austin Martin not a Aston Martin!
And Ian and Ann are very kind and generous people, they would never spend that money on a car but give it to theire children!
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I am still driving my old Jensen interceptor mk2 from 1971 and Ian a Japanese 4wd. I think Joe Sharman must have somewhere in a shed a nice Ferrari by now ;D
Very nice car, Gerard. The Jensen Interceptor was my dream car as a teenager. 8)
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Oh yes its still a dreamcar Martin and i prefer it above a half British half Ford car if you know what i mean ;D
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I did think it would have happened already if it were possible....
I'm trying to remember the story origin of narcissus tete-a-tete, which I believe is currently sold in greater numbers than any other narcissus. I cannot recall the details, maybe someone else can help out, but I think this was the result of a cross which was thought to have a negligible chance of success. So please don't give up too readily.
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from daffseek http://daffseek.com/query/query-detail.php?value1=Tete-a-Tete&lastpage=1&which=hist1 (http://daffseek.com/query/query-detail.php?value1=Tete-a-Tete&lastpage=1&which=hist1)
Tete-a-Tete was named as a joke on Mr. Tait. Frank Waley, who was there when it was named, said it was named by Mr. Tait's friend. Mr. Tait bred early miniatures and bred two of his to produce this one. It was never meant to refer to one or two flowers per stem. The name is French for head to head.
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Thank's Mark, I didn't know that, but that's not the story I am struggling to remember. Also tete-a-tete was bred by Alec Gray and he does not seem to feature in your account?!?
Edit: Oh, here we are, courtesy of "Golden Harvest: The Story of Daffodil Growing in Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly" by Andrew Tompsett and available to read online here:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jHsuU4pjITQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=golden+harvest,+the+story+of+daffodil&source=bl&ots=_7KVYuU9W0&sig=bJfVD8qTt92USAM7ZMQEklv5e8I&hl=en&ei=c9smTerZCcXQhAeGw422Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
See page 57. But that's Mark's tale, not the one I half-remember about how tete-a-tete came to be bred.
Further edit: Here we are on page 58: "However not all successful daffodil breeders have taken a scientific approach. Luck can play a part. A case in point is that of the little-known variety 'Cyclataz', from which, as we have seen, came the three famous varieties 'Tete a Tete', Jumblie' and 'Quince'." At this point the Google preview ends so unless somebody owns this book and can relate the tale on page 59 then that is as far as we can go. So it must be 'Cyclataz' that my tale is about.
Sorry to wander off topic - the moral I was trying to draw is 'Luck can play a part' in bulb breeding.
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From Brian Duncan
There are 620 hectares of 'Tete- a -Tete' grown in Holland out of a total of about 1,700 hectares of daffodils ie. more than 1/3 of the total crop.
It was first raised by Alec gray in Cornwall from 'Cyclataz' open pollinated. Registered pre 1949. Unfortunately it has a peculiar chromosome count of 24 +1B which renders it sterile. Much work(so far unsuccessful) has been done to re-produce Tete a -Tete in other colours or even the same colour because the whole stocks in Holland are virused. I have been asked to do some crosses towards this end but it is not easy - especially as some of the potential Tazetta parents are not suitable for N. Ireland climate. it is the rate of increase that makes Tete-a Tete such a popular proposition in Holland apart from it's many uses as a garden plant and for pot sales throufg florists, window boxes and tubs.
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Fieldgate Prelude was a selected grex from the Mrs Mcnamara seedlings in Colin's garden. The other seedlings selected out looked like Mrs Mcnamara. I've always wondered what happened to those seedlings. Did they ever in some way get into circulation as Mrs Mcnamara? In which case the Mrs Mcnamara being grown now may be a mix of the original clone and a grex from that cross. I keep meaning to ask Colin about that. I expect he'll say that's not likely, but I'd still be interested to know what happened to those look-alikes.
Hi Folks, I keep hoping for a warm sunny day when my early snowdrops in the garden will obligingly lift their outers.
I give up, so here they are all looking nearly wonderful. I've put them here with this bit of discussion cos it seemed most relevant.
They are Fieldgate Prelude, Mrs Mcnamara, Orion, Donald Simm's Early and Three Ships.
We've had burst pipes, ugh, so I include the Ice House :( and the home of my hopefully hardy cyclamen :-\
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Sorry about the pipes Jo, hope there was not too much damage. A lovely clump of Three Ships, the others are well ahead of mine so I will be interested to see when I catch up with you. The best I can do is Faringdon double, a gift from another kind forumist, although Henham No 1 will soon be dropping.
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Jo, like you, I wish for some sunshine to open the snowdrops which are up and in flower but tightly closed.
Hope you can get your pipe situation sorted out and no damage afterwards.
I am, at present, waiting with a little excitement for G. 'Godfrey Owen' to open as this is the first time I have it in the garden.
Paddy
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Apart from the G. reginae-olgaes and G. peshmenii which we have out in the glasshouse, most of the snowies in the garden are sensibly keeping their heads below the parpet meantime.... but yesterday I spotted a few brave (or foolhardy) little white spears peeking out of the ground between an Acer trunk and a tree paeony. Cannot remember what they are..... well, they're snowdrops.... that's good enough, isn't it? ;)
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Very nice snowdrops Jo!
Does that Galanthus Orion have 4 outers? :o
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Thank you to everyone who suggested that I could afford an Aston Martin well the company was started by a Mr David Brown who made tractors in the 1960s onwards hence the Astons D.B.8 etc. should I say that the cars are just good tractors going to waste ;D I did own an old David Brown Tractor years ago.
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Thank you to everyone who suggested that I could afford an Aston Martin well the company was started by a Mr David Brown who made tractors in the 1960s onwards
... he did indeed make tractors as well as gear boxes for heavy vehicles and tanks and his factories were in Huddersfield.
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Jo - Thanks for the shot of Fieldgate Prelude which show more elwesii-like leaves on what I assume is the more mature part of the clump. Strange behaviour!
Hope your pipe disaster is resolved without too much damage.
johnw
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Very nice snowdrops Jo!
Does that Galanthus Orion have 4 outers? :o
Hi Gerard, no, just the three outers. I see what you mean though, but its another bud in the background.
Enough damage from water to keep me out of the garden for a few hours and keep local business in work with plumbing, plastering, carpeting etc. Be warned, extra environmentally, goody, goody loft insulation puts pipes at risk :o
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some more on Tete-a-tete from Brian
Mark,
I should have added that there about 1,200,000 bulbs of 'Tete-a-Tete' per hectare - in round figures a total annual output of almost 400 million bulbs or about 25 for every person who lives in Holland. At about 20 euro per 100 wholesale price that amounts to a value of 80 million euros per year. The grower probably only gets about 1/3 of that but ....
spare a thought for the raiser, the late Alec Gray - without royalties he got nothing!!
Brian
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I had a feeling I remembered 'Tete-a-Tete' being a triploid involving a species with an odd number of chromosomes, which explains its infertility and its vigour. Then I found this in a recent paper by Peter Brandham, narcissus genetics expert from Kew:
Explosion, Falconet and Hoopoe are sterile triploids with 2n = 24, and have N. tazetta
chromosomes in them (2n = 10 + 7 + 7), in common with the well-known Division 12 varieties
Jumblie, Quince and Tęte-ā-Tęte. Although sterile, they could be equally successful
commercially, with their combination of vigour and multiple-flowered habit
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So 'Tete-a-Tete' is the triploid result of an unlikely cross between a species with the normal chromosome count of n = 7 with a species with an abnormal (for the genus) count of n = 10. But still a cross within the same genus, whereas of course galanthus and leucojum are separate genera with greater barriers to successful breeding.
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Oops! Just accidentally wrote that galanthus and leucojum are separate species instead of genera. Quickly corrected!
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I see the RHS Yearbook on Daffodils, Snowdrops & Tulips is mentioned in The Plantsman as being ready to ship internationally. Who is looking after that this year? I seem to lose the address every year.
johnw
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I see the RHS Yearbook on Daffodils, Snowdrops & Tulips is mentioned in The Plantsman as being ready to ship internationally. Who is looking after that this year? I seem to lose the address every year.
johnw
Hi John
See my posting of 16th October 2010 at http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6017.msg169164#msg169164
Chris
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Thanks Chris.
johnw
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Thank you to everyone who suggested that I could afford an Aston Martin well the company was started by a Mr David Brown who made tractors in the 1960s onwards
... he did indeed make tractors as well as gear boxes for heavy vehicles and tanks and his factories were in Huddersfield.
My dad worked in their design office until 1955. He helped to design tank and tractor gear boxes. I think Aston Martin was bought by David Brown, not started by him. It was Lamborghini, another tractor builder, who branched out into building sports cars because he wasn't impressed with what was on offer at the showroom.
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Just in case anyone else is interested in Aston Martin history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin#Inter_war_years
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This is Galanthus transcaucasicus - sometimes autumn flowering.
The upper flower opened in December.
Gerd
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Just returned from three weeks in Madeira (for anyone interested in what Madeira is like over Xmas and New Year I did a little blog of my holiday with some photos here):
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6401.0
Have been busy since returning home late Friday but have found 30 mins spare today to wander around my garden with a camera. A few pics quickly taken of some things still in flower (there are lots of others either flowering or 'dropping' or thrusting upwards but these were the best pics I could manage in failing light).
1 - X-Files
2 -Sickle
3 - Donald Sims Early
4 - Three Ships
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Ah, good to have you back where you belong, John, among the snowdrops and a selection of lovely ones you have to show us too.
G. 'X-Files' did come into flower here but fell to the appetite of a hungry slug so I haven't seen it in the flesh yet.
'Three Ships' is in flower here but not open and 'Sickle' is not even above ground.
I presume your jungle has been further furnished from your visit to Madeira.
Paddy
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I was in a garden today, colder than mine, and was blown away by how many snowdrops were in flower. One would have thought we were not frozen during November and December
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Mark,
With the passing of the cold spell and warm, wet weather of the past few days, the snowdrops seem to be jumping out of the ground. We may soon catch up with our warm-weather friends.
Paddy
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I presume your jungle has been further furnished from your visit to Madeira.
I came back with zero plants and zero seeds this time :o - very unusual for me!
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Such self-control! Such restraint!
LOL Paddy
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John
Sickle, Donald Sims Early and Three Ships are among my acknowledged earlies, but X Files isn't - mine is some way from flowering. Is yours outside or in a greenhouse?
Steve
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All outside Steve (I don't have a greenhouse). X-Files is always an early one here.
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John,
The 'X-files' you sent to me in early December was planted outside and came into growth and flower surprisingly quickly. However, as I said above, a blasted slug ate the flower on me.
However, it looks like it will be an early flowering one here also.
Paddy
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John my xfiles(that you kindly sent me also) is still in tight bud :'(must have quicky relaxed into midlands time and will flower when hes ready ;D(is xfiles a he or a she?)but noticing the temp as i stepped out my door its quite warm here this morning so might bring it on a tad.
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My X Files is flowering too, and I'm normally later than most people Steve!
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Brian, how are you "normally later than most people"?
Never thought of you as a slow one.
Paddy
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The xfiles John very kindly gave me is over. It was in the poly tunnel, lovely plant. Bungee and Madaline are in the poly tunnle as well and will be opening up soon. Pics to follow ;D
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Well only three out here at the moment,but lots with their noses poking through
Only have Faringdon Double,Three Ships and Mrs McNamara in flower
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Brian, how are you "normally later than most people"?
Never thought of you as a slow one.
Paddy
How kind of you Paddy, the little grey cells are definitely getting slower! Every year I see what people have in flower and my snowdrops are just coming through, not even in bud. It's very frustrating, however, the upside is I am still enjoying them when other people have none to come out 8)
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I've just realised the little grey cells definitely are slow...I was thinking of starting the February thread :P
It has been such a nice day today, mild and dry, what more can you want. Here are a few of the snowdrops including G.Faringdon Double from AnneW, X Files from Kentgardener and two received from Wol and Sue this week (G.Gabriel and G.Howard Wheeler), most beautifully packed, in flower and totally unharmed, well done Wol, if only all suppliers provided plants like this ;)
I think I am getting into snowdrop 2011 mode ;D
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OK, Brian, nothing wrong with the little grey cells now. A lovely selection of snowdrops and very nicely photographed. What are you doing - new background, lighting set-up?
And, John Finch must have had the main stock of 'X-Files'. Half the country seems to have received bulbs from him. Many thanks, John, greatly appreciated.
Paddy
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X-Files is always an early one here.
Could it be that what you (and now several other forumists) have is "X-Files - John's early form"; some sort of distinct variety?
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And, John Finch must have had the main stock of 'X-Files'. Half the country seems to have received bulbs from him. Many thanks, John, greatly appreciated.
Paddy
;D
It just one of the ones that does really well here Paddy - Happy to pass on stuff that increases itself freely. 8)
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OK, Brian, nothing wrong with the little grey cells now. A lovely selection of snowdrops and very nicely photographed. What are you doing - new background, lighting set-up?
And, John Finch must have had the main stock of 'X-Files'. Half the country seems to have received bulbs from him. Many thanks, John, greatly appreciated.
Paddy
I'll come clean, photographed by David (rather than snapped by Brian) against blue card. As they were all in pots for one reason or another, it was easy to do indoors ;) And of course my thanks to the kind forumists who supplied the same.
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X-Files is always an early one here.
Could it be that what you (and now several other forumists) have is "X-Files - John's early form"; some sort of distinct variety?
It came from Phil Cornish in 2007 - as he found it I think it is the normal version and nothing out of the ordinary.
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It's synonym, 'Early Bird' might explain the early habit.
Paddy
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Then it looks like Steve is the odd one out with his late X-Files.
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Don't normally get involved but couldn't resist this patch of Three Ships.
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Don't normally get involved but couldn't resist this patch of Three Ships.
I don't think that is a patch, John.... nor yet a flotilla, more a whole navy! ;)
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Wow, John, what a fabulous drift of 'Three Ships'. Such a planting is the best way to see a snowdrop's true character. Paddy
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Don't normally get involved but couldn't resist this patch of Three Ships.
Wow :o :o :o :o
John, you certainly never do anything by halves ;)
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At long last we have had a spell of milder weather and the first of the snowdrops are opening here.
Castlegar
Colossus
Faringdon Double
Paddy
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And the others from today. Paddy
Galanthus elwesiis Hiemalis Group
Mrs. McNamara
Three Ships - will this expand to be as nice as John's some day?
Paddy
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Fine pictures Paddy.
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Don't normally get involved but couldn't resist this patch of Three Ships.
Wow :o :o :o :o
John, you certainly never do anything by halves ;)
I only started with one .and I have given many away over the years.I find it to be a very good dooer here
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I only started with one .and I have given many away over the years.I find it to be a very good dooer here
I started with one and lost it :'(
but now have another, thanks to a very generous forumist ;)
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Don't normally get involved but couldn't resist this patch of Three Ships.
Shiver me timbers! :o :o :o
johnw
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Three Ships..... nor yet a flotilla, more a whole navy! ;)
;D
Very nice John - it certainly likes your soil. 8)
Nice pictures Paddy - the season is definitely starting. ;D
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Don't normally get involved but couldn't resist this patch of Three Ships.
With a wonderful patch like that John, you should get involved far more often ;) Lovely to see it, thanks.
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Mark, last year you asked
Does anyone grow plicatus Enid Bromley? It's identical to plicatus Maidwell C.
I couldn't see an answer to your question, and would like to know if it is Maidwell C with a synonym or is something else entirely and may therefore act differently when grown in the same garden? It says in the monograph under Maidwell C that "the only other G.plicatus with an arched pedicel and diffuse inner segment is 'Percy Picton'" Whilst I realise there are many not in the book I wondered if anyone knew whether they were the same?
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The nearest I can get to a drift! At long last my snowdrops are beginning to bulk up into clumps, not a very good picture of the flower I am afraid, but that's not why I am pleased :). Galanthus 'Henham No 1' seems to be quite floriferous, as I hope you can see from the birdseye view nearly every bulb is making a second scape which helps to bulk the clump out.
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Some of those look to be producing 3 per bulb Brian. 8)
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Ashely & John, many thanks for your kind comments.
John (Gennard), you will have to post shots of your snowdrops; they certainly will be appreciated here.
Brian, I think this clump is at the stage when it will now explode in numbers. Starting with a single snowdrop, the increase is very slow in the early years but then the increase is very fast year on year. Someone gave the numerical progress in a recent post.
Of course, you then have the problem of where to accommodate them in the garden or what to plant with them to cover them over after flowering.
Paddy
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Starting with a single snowdrop, the increase is very slow in the early years but then the increase is very fast year on year. Someone gave the numerical progress in a recent post.
Of course, you then have the problem of where to accommodate them in the garden or what to plant with them to cover them over after flowering.
Paddy
Thanks for that Paddy, I look forward to having that problem :D I suppose it becomes exponential (is that the right expression...1 becomes 2, becomes 4,8,16 etc?
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Reminds me of the old 'grain of rice on the chessboard' story. Put one grain on the first square, 2 on the second, 4 on the third, 8 on the fourth, 16 grains on the fifth and keep doubling the number of grains to cover all the squares on the chess board. At the end of the 64 squares you would have 18 billion billion grains (18446744073709551615) - enough to cover the entire surface of India 2 metres deep. :o
Do that with your snowdrops Brian and you could make a killing on ebay. ;D
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Reminds me of the old 'grain of rice on the chessboard' story. Put one grain on the first square, 2 on the second, 4 on the third, 8 on the fourth, 16 grains on the fifth and keep doubling the number of grains to cover all the squares on the chess board. At the end of the 64 squares you would have 18 billion billion grains (18446744073709551615) - enough to cover the entire surface of India 2 metres deep. :o
My brain hurts now ;D
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Reminds me of the old 'grain of rice on the chessboard' story. Put one grain on the first square, 2 on the second, 4 on the third, 8 on the fourth, 16 grains on the fifth and keep doubling the number of grains to cover all the squares on the chess board. At the end of the 64 squares you would have 18 billion billion grains (18446744073709551615) - enough to cover the entire surface of India 2 metres deep. :o
My brain hurts now ;D
My brain always hurts ::)
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I'm told by powers that be that what little I have is becoming more addled with each passing day. I was going to buy her some flowers but changed my mind ::)
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Similarly, there is the story of bargaining at a horse fair where the vendor asked for a ha' penny for the first nail on the horse's hoof, a penny for the second, two pence, four pence, eight pence, a shilling and four pence, two shillings eight pence and that was the first hoof paid for with the doubling continuing for the other three hooves to give a frightful end price.
Pence and shillings: I really am showing my age!
Paddy
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Pence and shillings: I really am showing my age!
Paddy
Thought you had enough problems with Euros over there Paddy :P
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Pence and shillings: I really am showing my age!
At least you didn't start with farthings Paddy ;)
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Reminds me of the old 'grain of rice on the chessboard' story. Put one grain on the first square, 2 on the second, 4 on the third, 8 on the fourth, 16 grains on the fifth and keep doubling the number of grains to cover all the squares on the chess board. At the end of the 64 squares you would have 18 billion billion grains (18446744073709551615) - enough to cover the entire surface of India 2 metres deep. :o
Do that with your snowdrops Brian and you could make a killing on ebay. ;D
So if you buy a child a vigorous snowdrop on its first birthday and this snowdrop manages to double each year then by the time that child gets to age 65 they will have 18446744073709551615 snowdrops. Maybe that will pay for their pension or maybe by that time 18446744073709551615 euros will be the price of a cup of tea.
In "The Book" it says snowdrop division follows a Fibonacci series, although I looked up the original reference and this seemed to be based much more on conjecture than evidence. If so then you would only have a meagre 10610209857723 (10 million million) snowdrops after 64 years.
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Ah, but Alan you have left that dreadful variant out of the equation, I am told if you don't regularly look after your clumps then they get fewer rather than greater ???
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Brian, Maidwell C and Enid Bromley are above ground now. When they open I'll take some side by side photos
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Does anyone else grow plicatus Enid Bromley?
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then by the time that child gets to age 65 they will have 18446744073709551615 snowdrops.
Right. My financial advisor suggested something similar quite a few years ago and I'm still working. ;)
johnw - 0c ay 21:25, maybe sunny enough tomorrow for a few snowdrop shots.
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Does anyone else grow plicatus Enid Bromley?
Yes Mark - a small flowering clump.
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Steve, do you have a photo of your plant?
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Some more in those clear blue Norfolk skies ::)
G.'Kyre Park', does not do well for me and is on it's last chance (three strikes and you are out)
G.'Chequers' found in the late Jenny Robinson's garden, one of my chips now flowering
G.'Sutton Courtenay' a super gracilis hybrid
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Brian,
I don't grow and don't recall taking notice of 'Sutton Countenay' previously. It has an interestingly light mark on the basal section of the inner segments and also on the ovary; a nice combination.
'Kyre Park' and 'Chequers' both look very fine also.
The clear blue skies are such a contrast to today's weather here.
Paddy
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now those are photographs, well done
It's been a long time since I had Sutton Courtenay. I must get some this year
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Brian superb pics Sutton Courtenay is a gem were will i be able to get one from,Mark were will be going to get yours?Brian were did you get yours?
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Mine must have come from the Gala
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Brian superb pics Sutton Courtenay is a gem were will i be able to get one from,Mark were will be going to get yours?Brian were did you get yours?
It came from Drs Julian and Sarah Sutton at Desirable Plants, Davey.
David passes on his thanks for the comments on his photos.
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Re 'Sutton Courtenay' It has been pointed out to me that it is also currently available on Avon's list so not a difficult one to pick up this year :D
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Re 'Sutton Courtenay' It has been pointed out to me that it is also currently available on Avon's list so not a difficult one to pick up this year :D
Brian - Super shots and sensational snowdrops!
johnw - -1c. Cold tonight, rain tomorrow.
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Steve, do you have a photo of your plant?
Mark
Enid Bromley is about a week away from full flowering but when it does there will be about ten flowers so hopefully a decent picture to post.
Steve
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Re 'Sutton Courtenay' It has been pointed out to me that it is also currently available on Avon's list so not a difficult one to pick up this year :D
I have just looked back at Avon Bulbs' Catalogue and see that I had 'Sutton Courtney' marked for consideration but the photograph there does not show the flower as well as yours does. I didn't order it, opting instead for 'Alison Hilary', 'George Elwes' and 'Lapwing'.
There's always next year!
Paddy
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Yesterday was a particularly nice, warm, sunny day and several snowdrops opened. Some photographs with some repetition of previously posted snowdrops as I thought they looked better.
Paddy
Barnes: G. elw. montostictus Hiemalis Group 'Barnes'
Castlegar
Colossus
Faringdon Double
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A few more, Paddy
Godfrey Owen - first time flowering this one in the garden and I can see why people rated it so hightly.
Paradise Giant - a group catching the low rays of the winter sun
Pyramid - does anybody know its origins?
P.S. I forgot to mention that I brought a little posy of G. 'Paradise Giant' into the house and find they have a very pleasant scent, something I hadn't taken note of in the garden.
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Pyramid - guilty but I didnt grow it.
I was in Margaret Owen's garden some years ago working prior to lunch or open day putting out labels and bark. She pointed out the unnamed monostictus and asked my opinion. I liked it because the petals remained narrow without opening far. We were thinking of names and I said it looked like a pyramid
I hope this info is in the snowdrop book. I need my name in print forever ::)
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Many thanks, Mark. I had read some comments you made on this in previous years but hadn't come across such a full background to the name. It is a nice elegant snowdrop with the long and slim outer segments.
Paddy
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A few from today. A nasty day to photograph white with a bit of snow falling and snow on the ground.
Gerard Parker
George Elwes
Tubby Merlin
Whittallii (Foxgrove's big one) 2
elwesii Rosemary Burnham
Brian Spence Sutton Courtenay
johnw
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A lovely selection, John.
Nice to see 'George Elwes' and glad I have ordered it from Avon Bulbs. I think it will be a good one in the garden.
'Rosemary Burnham' is, of course, a delight and I hope to see it in flower this season as it has appeared above ground.
Good show, despite your snowy conditions. Paddy
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I think Brian Spence should be a tiny G. nivalis with a single mark.
yes - http://snowdropinfo.com/brian-spence.html (http://snowdropinfo.com/brian-spence.html)
could your's be Armine?http://snowdropinfo.com/galanthus%20armine.html (http://snowdropinfo.com/galanthus%20armine.html)
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"Posted on: Today at 08:51:46 PM Posted by: mark smyth
Insert Quote
I think Brian Spence should be a tiny G. nivalis with a single mark."
Paddy & Mark - Indeed. I think Brian Spence had a bit of make-up on and was trying to mascarade as Sutton Courtenay. Now corrected. And by the way compare mine with the marvellously grown same by Brian Ellis.
re: the Whittalli I believe Steve Owen photographed this same plant at the RHS Show some years ago and at the Foxgrove stand. Was there comment made back then? Here is my photo from the same event. ??? ??? ::)
johnw
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John,
I've had a look back at Brian's photograph of 'Sutton Courtenay' and the colour on the markings are a little different - due, I imagine, to the different lighting for the photographs. Brian's seems more an olive green on the basal section of the mark.
Lovely snowdrop. Paddy
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I dont know this one. The eyes must be joined with the sinus mark
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I dont know this one. The eyes must be joined with the sinus mark
Mark - The book I think said one of the original descriptions of Whittallii mentioned no eyes. Whatever it is it is huge and may be the biggest here and incredibly robust.
johnw
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It does look good.
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John,
I've had a look back at Brian's photograph of 'Sutton Courtenay' and the colour on the markings are a little different - due, I imagine, to the different lighting for the photographs. Brian's seems more an olive green on the basal section of the mark.
Lovely snowdrop. Paddy
Paddy - I wonder if I omitted the pinch of lime from my mix the upper marking & ovary would be yellower. I notice my Sandersii is quite disappointing this year, more lime than yellow.
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It does look good.
Here's Steve shot of the same Whittalli and actually it was last year.
johnw
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I might do a video list of snowdrops this year. Here's a trial
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXpcG8m1EzU[/youtube]
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Brownie points if you can name the two birds in the background.
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I might do a video list of snowdrops this year. Here's a trial
You would do posterity a great service if you zoomed out to give the viewer a look at the leaves. It is relatively easy to find pictures of the flowers of snowdrop cultivars but hard to find pictures of the whole plant.
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I never though of that. When the wind and rain stops I'll do another.
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I never though of that. When the wind and rain stops I'll do another.
Mark - I'm with Alanb, it would be super to have a library of "live" footages and I bet your site would be the first to do this with the cultivars and species of any Genus.
Also good to see the Ronald MacKenzie video - link just below the Three Ships video.
johnw - a chilly -4c at 21:53
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Brownie points if you can name the two birds in the background.
They look like 2 Wrens!
I do hear some siskins!
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I should have said the background sound ::)
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If I might make a suggestion.....for record/ID purposes, I would like photos of flowers, inside and out, leaves and taken with a ruler to show size and scale.
However lovely a photo may,if is it not accompanied buy full size details (and even if it were, it can be separated from those in time) it is not really useful in the long term. Pictures such as I suggest will forever be a more complete record of the plant.
Without such refinements most photos are just pretty pictures. In a world such as that of the Galanthophile, such details are the meat and drink of the whole obsession., as I see it. The on going doubts about so many tpyes might be clarified at least somewhat by careful photography. I'm not saying it is always ( ever? ;)) possible to ID a plant ( any plant) purely by a photograph but for sure it would be easier to avoid doubt when sometimes one has never seen the "real" plant in question and all one has to go on is a vague description and a photo that does not tell the whole story........ ::)
That being said, I do not decry the beautiful snowdrop shots that we see on the Forum, which are delightful, and really works of art.... my point is particularly about making a record of reference.
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I think my ears must be going - I could only hear the traffic!
I took the following photos at a relative's house on Friday. She bought them about 20 yrs ago from Pottertons, but has forgotten the name. They are obviously slow to increase, there being only a dozen or so after all that time. Any ideas as to identity? An elwesii of some kind, but can we get a cultivar?
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Brownie points if you can name the two birds in the background.
I think I heard blackbirds (winter sounds) or another thrush, and blue tits.
Was out today looking for my snowdrops but not much yet, soil still frozen.
However the spring snowflake is coming to life.
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Anne, I'm afraid I wouldn't venture beyond agreeing that it is an elwesii. Paddy
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If I might make a suggestion.....for record/ID purposes, I would like photos of flowers, inside and out, leaves and taken with a ruler to show size and scale.
However lovely a photo may,if is it not accompanied buy full size details (and even if it were, it can be separated from those in time) it is not really useful in the long term. Pictures such as I suggest will forever be a more complete record of the plant.
Without such refinements most photos are just pretty pictures. In a world such as that of the Galanthophile, such details are the meat and drink of the whole obsession., as I see it. The on going doubts about so many tpyes might be clarified at least somewhat by careful photography. I'm not saying it is always ( ever? ;)) possible to ID a plant ( any plant) purely by a photograph but for sure it would be easier to avoid doubt when sometimes one has never seen the "real" plant in question and all one has to go on is a vague description and a photo that does not tell the whole story........ ::)
That being said, I do not decry the beautiful snowdrop shots that we see on the Forum, which are delightful, and really works of art.... my point is particularly about making a record of reference.
Maggi,
I have no doubt that such an exercise and record would provide an invaluable resource but for the purposes of the forum it would be rather overdemanding. I believe that almost all photographs posted here are for interest sake only, for the sake of illustration and for the sake of sharing with others who share the interest in snowdrops. They are, generally, not intended for identification purposes though they, obviously, do help in that regard. It is obvious over the years that identification from a photograph is regularly very challenging for even the most knowledgeable of enthusiasts - and that's not quite the same as saying they all look the same!
What you suggest would be a big project for someone to undertake and then one wonders where it might be stored/published.
Paddy
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Yes Paddy, it would be a large indertaking.... I made the suggestion in the light of Mark's proposal that he might make videos this year. Mark does, of course, have a snowdrop website and such a project as I suggest should surely have a place there?
If someone were to embark upon such a project and it were to build into a sizeable work, then it might well be possible to establish on the SRGC Website a home for it, in the same way as Tony Goode's Crocus pages are now hosted here.
I was not thinking of the Forum in the first instance. I was saying that such detailed records would be valuable as a resource- which I think you agree to be the case?
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I think my ears must be going - I could only hear the traffic!
I took the following photos at a relative's house on Friday. She bought them about 20 yrs ago from Pottertons, but has forgotten the name. They are obviously slow to increase, there being only a dozen or so after all that time. Any ideas as to identity? An elwesii of some kind, but can we get a cultivar?
I don't recall Pottertons ever selling a named elwesii form, but they have regularly over the years listed elwesii. It was probably a mixed bunch of elwesii, from which (as of course is often the case) one bulb survived and multiplied into a clump.
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I don't recall Pottertons ever selling a named elwesii form, but they have regularly over the years listed elwesii. It was probably a mixed bunch of elwesii, from which (as of course is often the case) one bulb survived and multiplied into a clump.
Martin - That was my recollection too. I went back through their catalogues to 1985. I see in the Spring 1996 they listed elwesii 'Cassaba' (is this not now gracilis?) and a note from a phone conversation with Bob that year said he may be be able to supply Whitallii. Neither of which solve the mystery.
johnw
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Was doing a tidy up / prune back in the garden today and found another in flower that was previously hidden and I had not noticed before. (sorry the photo doesn't show the detail that would be useful but thought I would post it anyway).
Maidwell L
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Yes Paddy, it would be a large indertaking.... I made the suggestion in the light of Mark's proposal that he might make videos this year. Mark does, of course, have a snowdrop website and such a project as I suggest should surely have a place there?
If someone were to embark upon such a project and it were to build into a sizeable work, then it might well be possible to establish on the SRGC Website a home for it, in the same way as Tony Goode's Crocus pages are now hosted here.
I was not thinking of the Forum in the first instance. I was saying that such detailed records would be valuable as a resource- which I think you agree to be the case?
It would certainly be a magnificent resource - but, I'm not going to do it, well, maybe I'll do some of it. You see you have given me an idea to do something this year, what you suggest just for Irish snowdrops.
Paddy
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Good one, John.
Paddy
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Thank you, friends. Are there any elwesii clones in flower now that look similar? Though you are probably right that is an unnamed one. It is very early.
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Today a bit of sun here in Belgium and even 13°C. ! It was enough to open the flowers of Galanthus plicatus 'Colossus'.
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Are there any elwesii clones in flower now that look similar? Though you are probably right that is an unnamed one. It is very early.
It is early for a "regular" elwesii but late for an elwesii hiemelis group. Of course, it's not a hiemelis group because those are monostictus. Within a two mile radius of where I live I know one garden with elwesii in flower now and another area spread across several gardens with elwesii in flower now - and that is just what you can see passing by on the road. Elwesii flowering this early are not that hard to find.
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My first one of the season-Galanthus elwesii. A batch Arthur Nicholls sent to me a few years ago now. At the time Arthur sent me two groups, one that flowered early and one mid-season. This is from the early ones but I note that in 2008 I pictured this batch, fully open in November!
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A little group of Richard Ayres that has been steadily bulking up for me since I got the original bulbs from Anglesey Abbey. I undoubtedly have a few to spare if anyone is looking for one of these and would like to swap.
In the photograph, the white of the actual snowdrops has ended up over-exposed. Should I be routinely adjusting the exposure when photographing snowdrops in anticipation of this problem or will that just lead to everything else being under-exposed? I took the photograph yesterday but it was too wet to try again today.
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Choosing a slight under-exposure is always good when taking a photograph of snowdrops with a dark background, especially when there is some sun on the flowers.
Richard Ayres opened yesterday even on the continent... :)
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Alan,
Photographing snowdrops in strong sunlight makes overexposure likely. I use a spot-metering system which allows quite accurate exposure but I prefer to photograph them is light shade.
G. 'Richard Ayres' is up but not open here.
Paddy
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The continent had a warm time frame last weekend. There were a lot of G. elwesii in bloom, with one or two marks.
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no-name but pretty and early
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Very pretty, Hagen. Your garden is ahead of mine, but at last some sun today, even if frost still on the ground.
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Hagen,
Glad to hear that the sun has reached Germany and that your snowdrops are appearing.
Nice G. elwesii.
Paddy
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no-name but pretty and early
Agreed. 8)
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Paddy, John, JohnW, Martin, Brian, Alan and all the other galanthus friends.
Your early pics bring the essential light for the heart. So we are able to wait for the warming sun too ;).
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Your early pics bring the essential light for the heart. So we are able to wait for the warming sun too ;).
Lovely to hear that Hagan - it makes the taking and posting of the photographs that much more enjoyable. :)
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Hagen,
I suppose it is good that our seasons are different for then we can see more snowdrops - we post in our season and you post in yours and so we have snowdrops over a long time.
Paddy
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Alack and alas, signs of Stagonospora on one side of my clump of Ketton, so out they all come, washed in strong disinfectant followed by fungicide, some binned, apparently healthy plants into one lattice pot, dodgy ones into a separate one, soil disinfected, lattice pots replanted (well apart) - what a palaver, as my father used to say. Fingers crossed that the good ones stay that way and prosper next year.
Does anyone know where I can find G. Ron Ginns (maybe known as R Ginns)? (Not to be confused with the separate Ginns Imperati, which I have already).
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Alack and alas, signs of Stagonospora on one side of my clump of Ketton, so out they all come, washed in strong disinfectant followed by fungicide, some binned, apparently healthy plants into one lattice pot, dodgy ones into a separate one, soil disinfected, lattice pots replanted (well apart) - what a palaver, as my father used to say. Fingers crossed that the good ones stay that way and prosper next year.
Steve - Which fungicide did you use? Have you found it effective in the past?
johnw - -1c, low last night -10c (coldest to date), rain and +6c by morning.
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Alack and alas, signs of Stagonospora ....
I had a few elwesii hiemelis that had Stagonospora last year. I tried to clean them up and put them in an isolated pot. I thought I might have succeeded when the leaves appeared in December but with the onset of the milder weather the leaves started to rot just above the soil line. I dug them up and it's Stagonospora again (which also seems to destroy the roots or prevent them forming). So it's the bin for them now.
I think snowdrops can grow in colder weather than suits Stagonospora but the fungus must be loving the mild damp conditions of the past two weeks. Be vigilant. The only sign of infection last year was that the snowdrops stopped developing.
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Steve I'll count mine tomorrow.
Yesterday I sprayed all of mine that are above ground, have their leaves apart but are still in bud. Some were done last week. When the flowers are over I'll spray again. I use carbendazim.
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no-name but pretty and early
That's good enough for me. Glad you are enjoying the pictures Hagen, as John says it makes it worthwhile posting them. Thomas, Richard Ayres is out today here too.
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Where can carbendazim be purchased from Mark?
Is it something a 'gardener' can get or is it only for professional use?
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Steve I'll count mine tomorrow.
Yesterday I sprayed all of mine that are above ground, have their leaves apart but are still in bud. Some were done last week. When the flowers are over I'll spray again. I use carbendazim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbendazim
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Not sure about the UK but carbendazim could be bought under the name Bavistin in the Netherlands. It was available to gardeners but it is no longer allowed to be used I was told by the company I buy my pots, soil and other stuff from so they couldn't sell it anymore to me. This company mainly sells to the professional nurseries in and around the Aalsmeer area and I had to use Topsin-M (another systematic fungicide) as an alternative to combat Fusarium in Arisaema. In the UK generally the legislation is more strict than it is over here.
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Steve - Which fungicide did you use? Have you found it effective in the past?
johnw - -1c, low last night -10c (coldest to date), rain and +6c by morning.
John
Like Mark I use the carbendazim I bought in the days when it could be obtained, but its very strong stuff and I've just got some Citrox (see the Unwins website) to try using.
Steve
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There is a natural alternative its named SiO2 with the desinfectioncode. If someone is interested to try,it works and it costs very little and i can supply.
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There is a natural alternative its named SiO2 with the desinfectioncode.
Gerard, do you mean SiO2? This is silicon dioxide or "silica". It is also known as Quartz as a mineral or a glass. Sand typically has a high silica content also. I don't understand what you mean by "desinfectioncode".
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I've just got some Citrox (see the Unwins website) to try using.
Specifically http://www.unwins.co.uk/greenhouse-and-pot-disinfectant-citrox-pid1498.html
"Effective against a wide range of bacterial and fungal diseases Dilution can be used to wash bulbs, corms and tubers."
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Its too complicated too explane here on the forum, but in general its SiO2 powder in several forms with a extra element. We use it when we wash the Lilliebulbs for export, this year 100 Miljone. It activates the bulb and makes it resistant against fungicide, after testing the washingwater no elements of fungus of whatso ever were found!
I do use 4 forms for my snowdrops and no chemicals at all! And it works.
You know that we have to downsize on using chemicals every year because of the environment. And at this moment its only available for big companys, but i can arrange that it is available for us.
There is a form that you can use against insects and virus too, but i have not tried these yet!
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Gerard, I'd certainly be interested to try some of that. For the last few years I have had a few snowdrops succumb to Stagonospora. I haven't been able to do anything with the badly affected bulbs but nearby bulbs with traces of the mould can usually be saved by removing the affected parts. I would like to be able to do better (without having to resort to old stock of withdrawn fungicides).
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Its too complicated too explane here on the forum, but in general its SiO2 powder in several forms with a extra element. We use it when we wash the Lilliebulbs for export, this year 100 Miljone. It activates the bulb and makes it resistant against fungicide, after testing the washingwater no elements of fungus of whatso ever were found!
I do use 4 forms for my snowdrops and no chemicals at all! And it works.
You know that we have to downsize on using chemicals every year because of the environment. And at this moment its only available for big companys, but i can arrange that it is available for us.
There is a form that you can use against insects and virus too, but i have not tried these yet!
I would be very interested to try that Gerard, the anti- insect form too. I could get hold of carbendazim ,i do have my spraying license. I do prefer the organic way, if possible. I do use Round up on the gravel paths.
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I would be interested to try your potion too Gerard especially as it is not dangerous to the environment.
Mike
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Alan & Steve, 'Citrox' really does seem interesting too.........
'A powerful concentrated organic citrus extract disinfectant for cleaning greenhouses, pots, staging, tools, seed trays, bird feeders and bird baths. Will not harm plant material so may also be used to disinfect water for washing cuttings, bulbs and corms. Pleasant smelling, safe and effective. Full instructions with each pack.
Use all round the greenhouse, potting-shed and garden
Clean pots, seed trays, capillary matting, staging and tools
Effective against a wide range of bacterial and fungal diseases
Dilute Citrox can be used to wash bulbs, corms and tubers
Effective on pond accessories and bird tables
Special Note - Can be added to water butts to keep water sweet and free from disease (dilute 25ml to 100 litres of water)'
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Yes, I agree about Citrox and was motivated to order some in the large size obtainable here http://www.gardening-naturally.com/acatalog/Citrox.html . My reasoning was that it would be a useful "safe" disinfectant, even if it does nothing for snowdrops. My thanks to Steve Owen for bringing this product to my attention.
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Yes Thanks Steve :)
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It could be good for when buying discounted bulbs at the end of bulb time at garden centres. Very often they have some mould on their tunics
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We've had two days of beautiful sunshine and its brought on quite a few snowdrops. Trumps and David Baker are both fully out now, in pots. They have spent the winter in a sand plunge with no overhead protection.
Side by side I definately prefer Trumps by miles. David Baker is showing the aberrant outers that Atkinsii gets.
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I have worked it all out!
I can supply if someone is interested, with the doses used.
Insect + 1gr/ltr and when the insect are under control 1gr/10ltr this is for several insects flying and soilinsects.
Plant + 1gr/10ltr This vitalises the bulbs or rhizomes and the whole plant itself. Use about 4 times a year, 1x before planting, 1x first sprouts,1x after flowring, 1x full growth.
Desinfection 1gr/ltr to 1gr/10 ltr for the bulbs or rhizomes or whatso ever, you want to keep healthy during saving them, but can be used on the plants too and soiltreatment
Use 1x before planting, 1x during growingseason, 1x washing the bulbs. Reduces the growth of Fungus and neutralises the new fungus elements.
Compost + 1gr/10ltr Makes the compostizing proces easier and no more dirty smells when you move it! All the nutrients get better available for the plants.
If you still want to use chemicals try to do a test. Treat some plants with the SiO2 and some plants with the common chemicals and see the results.
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Mixing the SiO2 is of course with water! ;D
So 1gr/10 ltr water.
I am going to fill some zipbags with 20 gr each from the different forms and this will cost 2,50 euro each. Till 250 gr international shipping in a letterbox envelope with handling will cost 5 euro, but i dont know the actual 2011 shippingcosts.
20 grams will be enough for the average gardener i think. If you want more let me know!
The best results are when you make the solution 24hours before using!
I hope i have explained it enough, if there are still some questions please let me know!
kind regards,
Gerard
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I prefer the Trumps too Jo!
What a beauty!
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I prefer the Trumps too Jo!
What a beauty!
And I was going to say the opposite - that I prefer 'David Baker'. The outer segment on 'Trumps' around the green marks looks like it is malformed.
Paddy
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It makes sense that extremely fine-grained SiO2 (silica) would be effective against insects, as it apparently blocks their spiracles (suffocates them, essentially). This is the idea behind diatomaceous earth, which is largely just very fine-grained silica. I don't understand why it would be effective against viruses... ?
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It makes sense that extremely fine-grained SiO2 (silica) would be effective against insects, as it apparently blocks their spiracles (suffocates them, essentially). This is the idea behind diatomaceous earth, which is largely just very fine-grained silica. I don't understand why it would be effective against viruses... ?
I don't think Gerard was making claims about its effectiveness against viruses Lori, more on bacterial and fungal diseases. I would be interested to know what the coating is on the SiO2 though Gerard?
Jo, I have to agree with Paddy, I prefer David Baker, although it's a very close call because both are stunning.
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I don't think Gerard was making claims about its effectiveness against viruses Lori, more on bacterial and fungal diseases.
There is a form that you can use against insects and virus too, but i have not tried these yet!
I was referring to the second quote, above, which implies effectiveness against viruses.
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Ah I see ::)
Maybe he meant virus prevention rather than a cure?
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For what has been explained to me it activates the bulbs immunesystem against virus. Some people get the flue and some dont, why because of theire immunesystem.
We have seen plants that had been treated with it that were half virused and half healthy. In tulips the half of the flower was virused and the other half good.
Its not a coating it comes from inside after activation.
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Jo,
I love the elegant form of David Baker.
Still flowering since the snow has gone is this one, not as special as David Baker or Trumps but fowering early.
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Steve - Which fungicide did you use? Have you found it effective in the past?
johnw - -1c, low last night -10c (coldest to date), rain and +6c by morning.
John
Like Mark I use the carbendazim I bought in the days when it could be obtained, but its very strong stuff and I've just got some Citrox (see the Unwins website) to try using.
Steve
Thanks Steve. For the records carbendazim = Bavistin and the old North American benomyl=benlate. As mentioned several years ago Benomyl/Benlate quickly converts to carbendazim upon contact with water/soil.
I am tending a greenhouse locally and 25 big new Hippeastrums. They are badly infected with Stag though they passed Ag Canada from Holland. One would think the growers would finance research into this pernicious problem. I wash thoroughly before going near any snowdrop!
johnw
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I am going to fill some zipbags with 20 gr each from the different forms and this will cost 2,50 euro each.
Gerard - Tell me it's not a white powder! Customs may freak out, alot of Galanthophiles in jail in January!. :o :o :o
johnw
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We've had two days of beautiful sunshine and its brought on quite a few snowdrops. Trumps and David Baker are both fully out now, in pots. They have spent the winter in a sand plunge with no overhead protection.
Side by side I definately prefer Trumps by miles. David Baker is showing the aberrant outers that Atkinsii gets.
Lovely David Baker Jo!
I am thoroughly confused by Trumps / Trymlet /Trym and wish I could see them side by side. Here they don't often flare their outers when the camera is ready.
johnw - most of the snow gone after large rain overnight, cold coming. +3c
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I am thoroughly confused by Trumps / Trymlet /Trym and wish I could see them side by side.
I've been meaning to do just such a photo for the last few years John. I shall try to actually do one this year :D - unless someone else beats me to it (Some of the 'Trymalikes' are quite a long way from flowering here. I think there may be some Trimmer already in flower - I'll look over the weekend when I should see my garden in daylight again! :-\ Getting fed up with viewing it by torchlight after work each day. ::))
The photo may need to be lots of pictures chopped up and put side by side in photoshop as their flowering season is rather spread out.
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...not as special as David Baker or Trumps but flowering early.
A very welcome picture in January Renate.
I really like both David Baker and Trumps - but do like the fact the Trumps looks correct each year, whereas DB seems a bit unpredictable on whether or not it decides to have green markings.
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John its ivory! :P
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I like David Baker best too, thanks for posting the pics Jo. Hopefully I will have some to post soon, lots of promising snowdrop spears just at soil level. Gone back to hard frost again yesterday & this morning...........likely a another hard frost tonight.
Mike
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Like trumps,that is on my wanted list,along with a few more :) :) :)
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Yes, I agree about Citrox and was motivated to order some in the large size obtainable here http://www.gardening-naturally.com/acatalog/Citrox.html .
Ordered on Tuesday and arrived on Thursday. My only problem is that you need to dilute the concentrate 1 part to 150 parts water so if I don't want to make up a lot at a time I need a means of accurately measuring a small volume of liquid (e.g. 10 ml). I'm still scratching my head about how best to do this.
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I always think of a level teaspoon of liquid as being 5ml Alan. Thats what I do with medicines and it hasn't killed me yet. ;D
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Alan :
I use for measure always a Syringe :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syringe
They have mostly 5 ml ..but you can also measure 1 or 2 ml without problems
Hans
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I am thoroughly confused by Trumps / Trymlet /Trym and wish I could see them side by side
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Although the three above were taken by me in various gardens I cant guarantee they are correct. I'm confused by them also.
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Sort of chimes in with my earlier suggestion that there should just be a "Trym Group" into which Trym and the Trym-alikes are placed. I imagine at this stage you can generally tell them apart, but the number of Trym seedlings is just going to grow and grow.
Oh, just a thought but Trym is notably late-flowering; a feature that could distinguish it from an otherwise-identical snowdrop.
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I use for measure always a Syringe :
I had been toying with that idea before you made this post, Hans, but that confirms it. I will order some of the graduated type. Meanwhile, John's suggestion of a teaspoon should keep me going.
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I forgot about syringes - I have a 2ml one that I use for my Palm Booster in the Summer.
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I am thoroughly confused by Trumps / Trymlet /Trym and wish I could see them side by side
I totally agree Mark all very similar. I guess without seeing them growing side by side in the same garden then it will be very difficult to see the slight differences between the three. Trumps does seem a little more different from the other two mind, especially ovary size, shape and colour. But still very hard to tell apart and it must take a very keen eye to pick them out in an identity parade.
Going back to 5 mL syringe sizes, any parent of young children will have an abundance of them as they're quite commonly given out with infant medicines, just a thought for anyone wanting one.
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I can tell them apart Mark. ;) But then I have always been attracted to unusual looking things ;D and would struggle to identify a lot of the more usual snowdrops that you would know at a glance. ;)
I had hoped for a sunny day to take a picture of 'Trimmer' - but as I am stuck in an office all week (travelling to work in the dark and arriving home in the dark! ::) ) today was my only chance this week.
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I am thoroughly confused by Trumps / Trymlet /Trym and wish I could see them side by side
Glad you posted these photographs, Mark, as they show how distinct these snowdrops are.
John, love the double marks on 'Trymmer'.
Paddy
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Two more for those in the grips of winter.
Diggory & Tubby Merlin. The latter is incredibly vigorous and a favourite.
johnw
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Mark - Thanks for posting those. John/Paddy - your eyes are better than mine, I see the ovaries are different but doubt I would remember the shapes in the field. Trymlet seems a bit easier to identify. I guess as Alan says we may have to rely on flowering time but that could be difficult here where the season is so compressed.
To add oil to the fire - I just noticed the first flower in a pot of my Trym (impostor) seedlings o.p.. The Trym impostor came from a very reputable nursery as Trym and I sure it was a simple matter of looking at the label of a dormant bulb and just catching the Tr... This first is quite distinctive with a greenish yellow line up to the ovary and shows a bit of promise. Hopefully it will stabilize the markings in the second season so we can see what it is really up to. Note how closely the ovary resembles Trumps'. Hmmm....
Who be the father with such a large inner mark?
johnw - -4c and frozen sold here.
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Lovely shots, John.
Only showing snouts here.
Paddy
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Two more for those in the grips of winter.
Diggory & Tubby Merlin. The latter is incredibly vigorous and a favourite.
johnw
Lovely shot's John..especially the angle of the Diggory shot...
Like Paddy just nose's for those two... :)
Regards Warren
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No sign of my Merlins. John is there heat in your green house?
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Yes Mark there is heat, everything would be dead including the hardiest items without supplemental heat. The greenhouse is kept at +5c. Other snowdrops are in the coldframes with pots sunk in wood chips, they winter happily in there.
Presently it is -4c and yet it is too warm in the g'house, as there is a stiff wind blowing venting is impossible. I guess interior reflective shade cloth would be the solution but at least the floor will warm up a bit for the night. The low tonight will be -11c, Sunday and Monday highs of -8 to -10c with lows close to -14c, our first real arctic blast.
johnw
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John, your snowdrop looks a bit like 'South Hayes'.
Today I found that two pots in which I had put cut off tops from bulbs whilst chipping, which had formed bulbils, were showing leaves. This is the first confirmation I've had that these adventitious buds will produce bulbs.
Lastly, a bit of wishful thinking - it's obviously a narcissus!
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Anne I'd say you are correct about Johns snowdrop. I think there was chat last year about South Hayes losing the stripe due to ?over twinning
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Anne / Mark - It certainly looks like it could turn out to be a South Hayes look-alike and we certainly don't need any more look-alikes.
I won't get named unless it is very worthwhile and markedly different. At the moment it is only worth a second look.
Good to see you have a Trym-not too!
johnw
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G. nivalis ssp. imperati (ex Dr. Fischer 1984). A perky little fellow.
johnw
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G. nivalis ssp. imperati (ex Dr. Fischer 1984).
But not, presumably, the green-tipped one in the background.
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Latest update from John Grimshaw
http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/
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Would appreciate your help in identifying this snowdrop. The label says 'Faringdon Double' - but it isn't. All 3 plants in flower are identical.
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It looks like John Gray or one of the Fieldgates
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/john-gray.html (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/john-gray.html)
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Thanks Mark
Any other suggestions?
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One or two more from the last few days photographed by David, Acton Pigot No3 from Margaret Owens former garden, Fieldgate Prelude one of Colin Mason's seedlings from Mrs MacNamara, John Gray a lovely clean flower and North Star, a seedling from John Sales, who says:
"It is like a very early 'Lady Beatrix Stanley' but more star shaped. Not a tidy flower but extremely floriferous and increases rapidly" certainly it is very skew whiff!
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Latest update from John Grimshaw
http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/
Always worth a read - but this entry definitely so for Galanthophiles. 8)
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[quote author=Brian Ellis link=topic=6443.msg181159#msg181159 date= North Star, a seedling from John Sales, who says:
"It is like a very early 'Lady Beatrix Stanley' but more star shaped. Not a tidy flower but extremely floriferous and increases rapidly" certainly it is very skew whiff!
[/quote]
Why would you want to grow this when Lady Beatrix Stanley is so much better - and I find it a good doer :) ;D :)
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G. nivalis ssp. imperati (ex Dr. Fischer 1984).
But not, presumably, the green-tipped one in the background.
No Alan, that green-tipped one is several rows over. It's a green-tipped elwesii a friend found several years ago.
johnw
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Why would you want to grow this when Lady Beatrix Stanley is so much better - and I find it a good doer :) ;D :)
Well Art, its called learning by experience ;D
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I hope it was a gift. :)
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A nice collection there Brian. It is amazing what great contrast you have in some of the markings compared to here. This year the yellowish inners of some are decidedly green as I note in your Fieldgate Prelude and John Gray. I will try to take a shot of the latter for comparison.
Here are two 2009 shots of what was labelled as Fieldgate Prelude at Covertside. Any idea what it might possibly be? I'm sure Jo must have seen this one just at the edge of the wall by the patio at the rear of the house. You can see that the marking is broken up in the flower centre bottom.
johnw - -7c at 12:30.
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It is amazing what great contrast you have in some of the markings compared to here. This year the yellowish inners of some are decidedly green as I note in your Fieldgate Prelude and John Gray.
Here are two 2009 shots of what was labelled as Fieldgate Prelude at Covertside. Any idea what it might possibly be?
I think that it is probably Fieldgate Prelude! As we have seen with Sutton Courtenay earlier on this thread, the markings do differ slightly depending on growing conditions, and I would think probably maturity of the bulb, perhaps someone else has found this to be the case too?
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Any other suggestions?
My personal opinion is that you cannot "re-name" a snowdrop with a wrong or lost label unless the list of possible suspects is small and unambiguous. For example, I have a small plicate snowdrop in a pot with a lost label. Given the contents of the pots in that area I think it is probably Colossus. When it gets big enough to flower I will observe the flower and the flowering time and the eventual size of the leaves and if these all match with Colossus it will probably get labelled "Colossus ?". I can do this because I don't own anything else for which Colossus could easily be mistaken. I now write on the actual pots with a paint marker to prevent this sort of problem recurring.
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Thanks Alan
I think it is a very nice snowdrop with a good strong flower and potential to increase well. Whatever it is, I am very pleased to have it.
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Does anyone have any information about this name - how does it differ from the species? Sorry I couldn't get the flower to open ::)
Galanthus fosteri antepensis (ex Norman Stevens)
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This is a tiny species compared to the last one. The right hand flower has got damage on the tips, I think due to frost when it was emerging
Galanthus gracilis ex JJA
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Hi Diane here is the same plant with the flower open was taken about 2/3 weeks ago. Mine tried to open at the end of November so I took this to be an autumn flowering form as my other fosteri were barely showing at all :-\ Will have to ask Norman about it but the ssp name does sound a bit like a latinised location
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Hello Diane ,
this name ( G. fosteri v. antepensis ) is descriptet from N.Zeybek and E.Sauer
Please look in the Galanthus book from A.Davis ( page 159 )
This plants was found in the Gaziantep area .
I hope this helps a bit
Hans
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This was posted first in the Moan Moan Moan thread but I'm putting it here as well because if my Daily Mail Weekend Magazine article on snowdrops is stumbled across by any fellow snowdrop enthusiasts, and if the hacks on the magazine have done to it what they seem to want to do to it, then I'd like my snowdrop growing friends to know how it came to be the god-awful mess that it may unfortunately turn out to be:
Well that's the last time I'll write anything for the Daily Mail Weekend Magazine!
Sent my snowdrops feature in only to have some hack of an 'assistant editor' add on a rewritten (and factually incorrect) intro and ending to make it more in keeping with the Daily Mail style. I've since been told by someone else who's written for the Daily Mail that this is what they tend to do - take your copy and turn it into a flowery hack job.
My intro was this:
The current craze in horticultural circles for snowdrops, or galanthus to give them their botanical name, is sometimes compared to the madness of Tulip Mania in seventeenth century Holland, due to the incredibly high prices that bulbs of the newest and rarest varieties can sell for at auction.
I then went on to write, very topically, about the incredibly high prices snowdrops sell for at auction before writing generally about snowdrops, which to buy to start a collection, where to buy them, where to see them, how to grow them, etc. The bulk of my feature has been left as I wrote it and is I feel reasonably well written (since I've been writing for over 30 years, including for various gardening mags and half a dozen gardening books) apart from the stupid intro and ending tagged on. I re-wrote these to correct the inaccuracies and try to make it less rubbish, but god knows if they'll take any notice! Bear in mind this feature is to appear on 5th Feb when the snowdrop season is well underway, so the timing mistake was the first thing I corrected. Anyway, here is the intro they wanted to tag onto the top of the article:
By Martin Baxendale
With a little bit of luck, and if our gardens don't get buried under another thick layer of snow, we should soon be getting a glimpse of what some people call milk flowers. By that I mean snowdrops, nature's own white carpet, celebrated as a very early and - given the harsh weather - optimistic sign of spring. One minute the ground is hard and unyielding, or so it seems; the next, Galanthus (to give them their botanical name) are peeping through all over the place, later to be outshone by the equally ubiquitous yellow daffodil.
But we shouldn't take snowdrops for granted, as there is a current craze in horticultural circles for some of the newest and rarest varieties, and big money is being paid for single flowers. It is being compared to the madness of Tulip Mania in 17th century Holland, when just one bulb would sell for ten times a craftsman's yearly wage.
And this is the ending they wanted to tag on:
So when you see the first snowdrops of spring poking through this month, welcome them as something more than nature's first stirrings of the gardening year. Because for some people they are, after all, an investment in the future - in more ways than one.
Remember, this is to be published 5th Feb, and I told them when the snowdrop season starts, peaks and ends. The sound you can hear is me tearing my hair out.
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I thought snow was "nature's own white carpet". Hope they paid well.
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I dont like the Daily Mail >:( , my auntie does read the rag so i will ask her to look out for the article.
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Hope they paid well.
The only consolation Martin :-\
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Perhaps we should rename this thread 'Milk flowers January 2011'.
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I've always wanted to meet someone who admitted reading the Daily Mail, but my joy at discovering someone who actually WRITES for it knows no bounds...
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I have to say in my defence that I don't make a habit of writing for the Mail, Steve. In fact I've never written anything for them before. But they asked because someone on the Weekend mag had a copy of my novel, The Snowdrop Garden, and it was a chance to get a half-decent factually correct and reasonably knowledgeable story about snowdrops into a national newspaper's weekend magazine for once instead of the half-witted hack jobs that the nationals tend to publish about snowdrops (Always, always, always plant in the green, must, must, must be divided every three years, need wet soil, etc, bloody etc).
And yes, Rob, that's exactly what I thought - surely SNOW is nature's "own white carpet"!!! And where they got "milk flowers" from I have no idea - though I suspect it may have been Wikipedia! Really! I went to Wikipedia to have a look, as I wondered where they'd got their half-arsed info from and the first line about galanthus gives the literal meaning of the botanical name as milk flower, so what's the betting that's what they did? Plus that rambling mish-mash of an intro they came up with is just badly written. I mean BAD!!! Aaaargh!!!
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I completely re-wrote their rubbish bits for them, using correcting the incorrect bits as my cover, trying (vomit, vomit!) to keep a hint of their flowery house style but make it readable so it wouldn't make me look like a complete idiot. But who knows whether they'll just change it back? If they do, the editor will be getting a very angry and expletive-filled email from me. >:(
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Hello Diane ,
this name ( G. fosteri v. antepensis ) is descriptet from N.Zeybek and E.Sauer
Please look in the Galanthus book from A.Davis ( page 159 )
This plants was found in the Gaziantep area .
I hope this helps a bit
Hans
Diane and Hans
Interesting wiki states that "Gaziantep was originally called Aïntap (from Arabic عين تاب) but after some centuries the name shifted to Antep" which is in SE Turkey hence presumably its ssp name
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Martin, don't beat yourself up. We'll do that. ;D
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Thanks, Steve. ;D
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"Diane and Hans
Interesting wiki states that "Gaziantep was originally called Aïntap (from Arabic عين تاب) but after some centuries the name shifted to Antep" which is in SE Turkey hence presumably its ssp name"
Hello Ian ,
Thank you for this information .
One of the both authors ( N. Zeybek ) is from Turkey and so he use this older name
Hans
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Before some years I have bought from Joe Sharman a bulb of "Wendy's Gold" ...it grows OK ....but I have not a quick multiplication .
In one year was some seedpods on this plant and so I put this fruits near the motherplant in the soil - my hope was that maybe more yellow flowering plants came up ....in this year those seedlings have flowered - but to my big dissapoitment they looks all "normal" ... :'( :'( :'(
The same thing is happend for me with a other nice plicatus cultivar ( Warley Belles) ....all the seedlings looks normal ....
Have any other members similar expieriences ?
Hans
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Hans I have the same experience . Here is a Photo I posted a couple of years ago as Son of Wendy ::) Someone mentioned that if this were back crossed with Wendy it might produce Yellow children
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Joy Cozens really looking orange in bud
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looking good!
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Very nice,please post another picture when it is in flower
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Wow :o , thats much more orange than i thought it would be ;D
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Hans I have the same experience . Here is a Photo I posted a couple of years ago as Son of Wendy ::) Someone mentioned that if this were back crossed with Wendy it might produce Yellow children
Thank you Ian !
OK ....so we have to be patient ....
Hans
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Joy Cozens really looking orange in bud
I am afraid it has a water or frost disease :'(
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Edit - I was getting 'Joy Cozens' and 'Amberglow' mixed up. ::)
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Someone mentioned that if this were back crossed with Wendy it might produce Yellow children
I'd be worried they had liver disease. ::)
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Here is a Photo I posted a couple of years ago as Son of Wendy ::) Someone mentioned that if this were back crossed with Wendy it might produce Yellow children
All the anecdotes I have heard are that the son's and daughters of Wendy's Gold do not come out yellow. I did not do a lot of genetics at school but I'm pretty sure I'm right that if the yellow colouration were down to a single recessive gene then one if four of the progeny (if crossed with itself) should be yellow whereas if crossed with something else to produce a plant which was then crossed with itself, one in eight of that second generation should be yellow. I've never heard of anyone successfully breeding a yellow snowdrop from Wendy's Gold so either they are keeping it under their hat(s) or the odds are not that good.
On the other hand, other yellow snowdrops have arisen from the same population as Wendy's Gold (i.e. "Wandlebury Ring", "Bill Clark") so there must be something in the genes of that population that has the capability to produce yellows.
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Thank you Alan for your information !
I have also not so big hope but it is worth a try...
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Well,I am worried now.It is the first year I`m growing it and never saw it before.The bible say`s Joy Cozens is tinged orange in bud and fading when in flower.The plant looks allright to me now but we will see in time. ???
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Loes don't be worried, just show us how it develops.
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Somebody has bred yellows using Wendys Gold. I hope I'm correct but will contact that person to get permission to show the results
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Well,I am worried now.It is the first year I`m growing it and never saw it before.The bible say`s Joy Cozens is tinged orange in bud and fading when in flower.The plant looks allright to me now but we will see in time. ???
I'm sorry Loes if I have worried you - I am sure I must have remembered incorrectly - it was a few years ago that I had the conversation. It does look orange in your photograph. :)
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Somebody has bred yellows using Wendys Gold. I hope I'm correct but will contact that person to get permission to show the results
Even if they don't want to show the results, I would be very interested to know the yield and whether they think that the yellow colouration is controlled by a single recessive gene.
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I think maybe Mark is referring to me. I crossed Wendy's Gold with Lutescens and got about 60% yellows. The genetics must be a little bit more complicated than a single recessive gene in each to get that many. They are nice yellows but unless they prove particularly vigorous or have some other feature I haven't seen yet, they will not be worth naming. One of the clones is shown here, with Wendy on the right.
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I should have said - you will have a better chance of yellow seedlings if you cross 2 yellow parents of different varieties.
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Alan you are correct about yellow in genetics.
http://ringneckmutations.com/BlueBreedingPredictions.aspx (http://ringneckmutations.com/BlueBreedingPredictions.aspx) replace blue with yellow
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With birds there is a sex-linked yellow where the female is yellow dominant
Yes Anne it was you.
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I think maybe Mark is referring to me. I crossed Wendy's Gold with Lutescens and got about 60% yellows. The genetics must be a little bit more complicated than a single recessive gene in each to get that many. They are nice yellows but unless they prove particularly vigorous or have some other feature I haven't seen yet, they will not be worth naming. One of the clones is shown here, with Wendy on the right.
Annew, if you have too many of your yellow seedlings I am more than willing to grow some in my garden ;D :D
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my pot of galanthus 'Yvonne Hay' in flower today.
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Nice to see her Tony, way ahead of the clump in my garden, it's like having two bites of the cherry ;D
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If anyone knows whose Wendys Gold mother? We are one big step further!
Ifs possible you have more chance on yellow clones with Wendy's mother, she has proven to produce yellow ones.
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Anne, I'd be interested to know what the vernation of the leaves are in your yellow seedlings. E.g. are they all plicate like Wendy, or applanate like Lutescens, or in between, or a mix? And which parent do they generally speaking look most like? I'm looking for genetic clues here of course.
By the way, Mark's post:
With birds there is a sex-linked yellow where the female is yellow dominant. Yes Anne it was you.
Could be taken in all kinds of ways!
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my pot of galanthus 'Yvonne Hay' in flower today.
Lovely Tony
I thought you said it rained all day yesterday - it looks like the a blue sky behind Yvonne Hay. ;D
Mine (thanks) are not open yet it is not warm enough
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my pot of galanthus 'Yvonne Hay' in flower today.
Lovely Tony
I thought you said it rained all day yesterday - it looks like the a blue sky behind Yvonne Hay. ;D
Mine (thanks) are not open yet it is not warm enough
Ian it did rain all day yesterday and was dark.
That plant had looked ready to open for over a week with no result so action was needed.Clearly you do not use my technique of sitting the pot on the central heating boiler for an hour and then photographing it against a grey card!
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Joy Cozens beside Cedric`s Prolific
still looking good
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Martin, they are a mix - a 'swarm'. everything from pure applanate to fairly plicate.
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Anne, you may not think that any of your yellow crosses are worthy of cultivation but I think it is really impressive that you have succeeded. Presumably the next thing to do is to try to breed a yellow analogue of a virescent snowdrop or a yellow version of something like Trym?
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my pot of galanthus 'Yvonne Hay' in flower today.
Lovely Tony
I thought you said it rained all day yesterday - it looks like the a blue sky behind Yvonne Hay. ;D
Mine (thanks) are not open yet it is not warm enough
Ian it did rain all day yesterday and was dark.
That plant had looked ready to open for over a week with no result so action was needed.Clearly you do not use my technique of sitting the pot on the central heating boiler for an hour and then photographing it against a grey card!
;D
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Already on to it, but in that case the other parent is green, so it would probably take 2 generations.
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oops, posted this in the wrong thread, had to redo it!
Will the next "move" for you not to be making further crosses of yellows to make F3 etc crosses, Anne?
Thinking of how the F2 and further generations of Crocus x gothenburgensis are so much nicer than the original cross, it seems to me the the yellows might be improved by more crossing and back crossing...... Huh ( If one wanted to do such a thing...... :-\ :-\)
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Martin, they are a mix - a 'swarm'. everything from pure applanate to fairly plicate.
Right, well that probably rules out Wendy being polyploid. As you say, a yellow virescent - you can't actually say a yellow virescent, can you...flavescent? - would be a long slog, crossing a yellow and a virescent then back-crossing the seedlings with a yellow. Not sure of the chance sof success, but percentage wise must be low so a lot of seedlings needed.
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I like 'Yvonne Hay." She was one of several I bought last summer but didn't come up along with a couple of others.
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Thanks for that idea, Maggi. Contact me again in 20 yrs... ::)
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Thanks for that idea, Maggi. Contact me again in 20 yrs... ::)
Oh, I plan to do just that! :) (because just imagine what kind of narcissus you'll have bred by then, hee hee )
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Galanthus 'David Baker' in the garden today. Paddy
Galanthus 'David Baker'
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Very nice Paddy and a very 'arty' photo may I add.
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Oh, Sean, you're from the North-east; you can say it the Irish way: It's very arty-farty.
Paddy
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Less "arty" but a good clump of Galanthus 'Ophelia' just about to open its first flowers, if the mild conditions continue here - and a little sun would help.
Paddy
Galanthus 'Ophelia'
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Paddy
Super clump. Does it result from periodical digging up, separating and replanting as we are supposed to do, or have you just let it get on with it?
Steve
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Less "arty" but a good clump of Galanthus 'Ophelia' just about to open its first flowers, if the mild conditions continue here - and a little sun would help.
Paddy
Galanthus 'Ophelia'
That healthy clump look stunning Paddy.. :) Bet they will look even better if the sun manages to come out..!! ::)
Regards Warren
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Steve, Warren,
This clump started with three bulbs in 2001. They were moved to this position around 2004 and were divided again in 2008. It is obviously a vigorous bulb and has done very well. It will look better when the sun shines and when the flowers which are presently low to the ground grow up a bit to full out the clump.
Paddy
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Paddy - Can you tell us about the soil Ophelia in which has gone rampageous?
johnw
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John,
the soil in the garden is a heavy loam, about 40cm deep over clay. It is slightly acidic, wet in winter, though this area is not the wettest patch in the garden as there is a ditch beyond it which takes surface run-off and drainage from the land around us. It is quick to dry out in spring. This particular bed is particularly dry in summer as a line of ash trees are behind it and the roots extend underneath. Of course, the soil has been amended with generous amounts of garden-made compost and leaf-mould over the years.
Paddy
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Obviously perfect conditions for that snowdrop Paddy because it looks very content! :P
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three more out today,the first two from swaps with Ian and the third my own seed in 1992
Galanthus 'Yvonne'
Galanthus plicatus ssp byzantinus
Galanthus plicatus ssp plicatus
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Obviously the perfect scenario for most snowdrops Paddy.
Thanks
johnw
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Hooray, some sunshine at last, and a chance to get the camera out...
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and a few more....Harwood Twin is a bit dog-eared...
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Tony thats a lovely mark on your plicatus plicatus
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Steve,
That's a selection of very uncommon ones for me, very interesting.
Isn't 'Harwood Twin' an interesting one. Does it always have the two flowers?
Lovely shape to the flower and spathe of 'All Saints' and that's a lovely long flower on 'Britten's Kite', very elegant indeed.
Enjoyed them all.
Paddy
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Nice clump of Margaret Biddulph, Steve.
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The year I gave lectures at Harvey's I bought two Ivy Cottage Green Tips. Last year they lacked green tips. They are just through and the green tips are not there. Does anyone have it? Do they have green tips?
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three more out today,the first two from swaps with Ian and the third my own seed in 1992
Galanthus 'Yvonne'
Galanthus plicatus ssp byzantinus
Galanthus plicatus ssp plicatus
Nicely grown and photographed Tony
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I bought two Ivy Cottage Green Tips. Last year they lacked green tips. They are just through and the green tips are not there. Does anyone have it? Do they have green tips?
They have always had green tips here Mark - I'll see if I can find them later or tomorrow. (Hopefully I haven't put a paving stone on top of them like I did last year (http://"http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5090.msg141714#msg141714") when they had yellow tips for a while! ::) ;D)
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Paddy
Harwood Twin seems reliable at throwing two flowers from each scape.
Steve
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The year I gave lectures at Harvey's I bought two Ivy Cottage Green Tips. Last year they lacked green tips. They are just through and the green tips are not there. Does anyone have it? Do they have green tips?
Hi Mark,
yes, I have it too and it has green tips, however the markings are really small and I definitely had to get down low to see them.
If it warms up at all today I'll take a photo.
We've got the garden open tomorrow, the forecast is dry and cloudy and 2C so I don't think there will be a lot to see :'( :'( Only some of the late earlies :)
Even Atkinsii is tight shut although the flowers are all there and the overall effect is white theres not an inner to be seen
Luckily people are phoning to check and so we can tell them to wait till next Sunday and hopefully we won't be under a blanket of snow by then.
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As mine are still at soil level I'll get back to y'all when it opens
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This clump started with three bulbs in 2001.
Thank you Paddy! Now I have a hope to get the same clump from my 2 bulbs. :)
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Cold day here (well Bloody Freezing day if I am honest!) - but as I work most days and rarely see the garden in daylight recently ::) I have taken some photos, even though the flowers are not at their best while protecting their nether regions (as I was too :-X)
1 - a really rubbish photo - but I am very glad to see that the double header that Brian Ellis, David Quinton and I spotted while visiting the Greatorex woods with Richard Hobbs has proven stable for a third year. 8) (It looks better when it puffs out a bit in a couple of weeks).
2 - this year 'Three Ships' has managed to still have some nice looking flowers to make me happy at the end of January.
3 - I know we've seen it twice already this year - but Trimmer is definitely attracting my attention each time I get into the garden in the last couple of weeks.
4 - My first flower on JM6 (or JMDS-7B2-6 as it is also known ;D) - I've been waiting a few years for this after a postal blunder where the parcel took almost 2 months to reach me. A very sad looking mess was unwrapped but luckily there was a small solid bulb in the centre of the mess. A couple of patient years of feeding the leaves and I've been rewarded with a beautiful little flower. 8)
5 & 6 - Some years I look at 'Richard Ayres' and think - that is one lovely looking snowdrop. This is another one of those years for me. Beautiful. 8)
7 - My first Hellebore flower of the season.
yes, I have it too and it has green tips, however the markings are really small and I definitely had to get down low to see them.
Mark, Jo is absolutely right - I knew the green tips are there, and on all flowers, but you do need to look for them. :D
8 & 9 - Ivy Cottage Green Tips
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Been out with the camera for a bit, to cold to stay outside for long ( evil wind chill >:( ) two pics of Galanthus ex Emma Thick and one of a findling from a few years which normaly put up flowers 4x4 or 5x5 , this year has produced a fused scape. What it does next will be interesting ??? 8) ???
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I am very glad to see that the double header that Brian Ellis, David Quinton and I spotted while visiting the Greatorex woods with Richard Hobbs has proven stable for a third year.
I am keeping my fingers crossed John, I can't remember whether David had one or not?
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About 15 years ago I bought Galanthus caucasicus from Potterton & Martin. Now G. alpinus v. alpinus it is very late to surface and the noses have just appeared this week. It is always a worrisome snowdrop, never knowing if it has survived or not. Another in the same league is x allenii which the book says may be alpinus x woronowii. Is this one also a late riser? As I recall I fear it's dead every year but then it shows but I can't recall it exact surfacing time. I am hoping with alpinus in its background it is a late one but last year it flowered on 3 February and there's not a sign of it yet. G. lagodechianus is just surfacing in the last few days.
Meanwhile, Armine just finishing up and looking a bit tired, Headbourne just out.
johnw - a rotten cold and damp dark day. +.5c
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Allenii is always a late one for me.
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Not for me.
Its interesting how different snowdrop flower differs
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Allenii is always a late one for me.
I'll keep my fingers crossed Martin. Baxendale's Late is just up a cm., so living up to its name. nivalis Sibbertoft White just out and Tatiana very slow to get going - its nose has been sitting there for a month and while strong there's no action yet.
johnw
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My x allenii is only just through too John...and no sign of Baxendale's late.
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No sign of Baxendale's late here either
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My x allenii is only just through too John...and no sign of Baxendale's late.
Oh, oh I'd better do a little snooping and digging.
johnw - -1c
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Well this is the third time I have tried to post some pic ???
my files are 640 x480 and the total of my kb is under 500
Help anyone s
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Oops, as if by magic they have now appeared!!!!
Not sure how, I will have to practice more.
My knees have not defrosted since taking these so i'll wait awhile
cheryl.
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Well done Cheryl. Your first picture post - and lovely pictures too.
Ailwyn is such a perfect double. ex Emma Thick gets around doesn't she. ;) I've not noticed my Elfin yet - will have to go and have a look for it when the sun comes up. What is the last photo of?
Can I ask where you are based Cheryl?
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If it's any consolation, Cheryl, my attempts to upload photographs recently have required several tries. Half the time there's just a long wait followed by an eventual error message "The computer you are trying to reach has just popped out for a coffee", or something to that effect. That's a lovely photograph of 'Ailwyn'. How did you get the outers to open so wide? Mine are clamped tight shut in this cold weather.
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Very nice Cheryl, nice to see you on here. I too have difficulties sometimes, I think it is to do with the number of people online at the time accessing our popular forum - we clog it up!
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I'll have to have whisper with Emma also. What's it like inside?
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Cheryl, lovely images! I like the first and the second one most of all.
About 15 years ago I bought Galanthus caucasicus from Potterton & Martin. Now G. alpinus v. alpinus it is very late to surface and the noses have just appeared this week. It is always a worrisome snowdrop, never knowing if it has survived or not. Another in the same league is x allenii which the book says may be alpinus x woronowii. Is this one also a late riser? As I recall I fear it's dead every year but then it shows but I can't recall it exact surfacing time. I am hoping with alpinus in its background it is a late one but last year it flowered on 3 February and there's not a sign of it yet. G. lagodechianus is just surfacing in the last few days.
Sometimes I wonder when I read forum. Of course I understand my climate is very different from Europe and most of others. G. caucasicus is the earlies at my garden. It flowers usually when snow still cover most of garden area. It is very hardy and blooms well every year.
(http://cs1935.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/92164489/x_3215a832.jpg)
But this clone was taken from high altitude (about 1700m). I also get another clone from low altitude (400m) but I found it only last year. I would suppose it's better to grow the first one at cold climates and the second one at mild.
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Oops, as if by magic they have now appeared!!!!
Not sure how, I will have to practice more.
My knees have not defrosted since taking these so i'll wait awhile
cheryl.
Cheryl, I'm sure it's nothing you're doing. Our host server is so busy twe are having these problems with loading pictures lately. It took me three tries yesterday to load a link. Utterly infuriating but not a lot we can do, I'm afraid. Sorry! Thanks for your patience and perseverance.
By the way, it is each picture that can be up to 500 kb, not all of the ten possible.... of course, with the current difficulties that's kind of secondary.
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Well done Cheryl. Your first picture post - and lovely pictures too.
Ailwyn is such a perfect double. ex Emma Thick gets around doesn't she. ;) I've not noticed my Elfin yet - will have to go and have a look for it when the sun comes up. What is the last photo of?
Can I ask where you are based Cheryl?
Cheryl lives 5 miles away from me and is my cousin 8)
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4 - My first flower on JM6 (or JMDS-7B2-6 as it is also known ;D) - I've been waiting a few years for this after a postal blunder where the parcel took almost 2 months to reach me. A very sad looking mess was unwrapped but luckily there was a small solid bulb in the centre of the mess. A couple of patient years of feeding the leaves and I've been rewarded with a beautiful little flower. 8)
It certainly is a beauty John, what is the inside mark like? Your patience has it's own reward - in bundles. I will show my ignorance and ask who is JM?
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I have to laugh to myself at seeing all these Galanthus 'Trymmer'/'Trimmer' (depending on which year it was bought), mine is about an inch out of the ground so nowhere near flowering ::) A couple of photos, first a salutary lesson to myself, a snowdrop with a lost label. I always used to put a spare label in the bottom of the pot out of reach of all the blackbirds so I would know what was what if they had fun with the labels. I didn't with this one and now face trying to discover what it is by a long process of elimination - serves me right :-X Still it's a nice snowdrop :D
Second my first flowering of a gift from a Cottage Garden friend G.'Elmley Lovett' and lastly the first flowering of some twin-scaling (the Hatchet man strikes again Maggi) of 'Maidwell C' or should that be 'Enid Bromley'? The mark is not as clear as on the parent plant so may need to have a mature bulb to show the full effect. The jury is still out on the naming and it seems to depend on whether this was acquired from Margaret Owen before she lost the original clump or after the seedling form was discovered.
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I've not noticed my Elfin yet - will have to go and have a look for it when the sun comes up.
Just found my clump of 'Elfin' - or should I say SLUG FOOD! ::) Got there in the nick of time with the slug killer to hopefully see a few flowers to maturity this year! :-\
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David is doing a great job with these pix, Brian.
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Thankyou all for the warm welcome and encouragement re photos,
as emma says John I'm also in deepest Dorset.
Ailwyn had been in a frame and had been fully out for awhile.
I 'm sorry I dont Know who no 4 is John as it and many others were
rescued from a garden makeover, so if anyone can help I would be grateful.
I liked because of its wonderful big leaves it is also nicely marked inside.
I will try to post pics later. More frozen knees!!!
Thankyou maggie for explaining about the 500kb, I'm a bit dense when it comes
to the technical side of computer thingys. cheryl
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Getting confused here. Emma showed a shot of ex Emma Thick which I assume is a seedling of 'Emma Thick'. Lettuce begin showed us x Emma Thick which I assume is the hybrid 'Emma Thick'. I am confused? ???
Olga - As I grow many snowdrops in pots the order of flowering may well be different when they are plant outdoors. Then we might see an entirely different order of bloom depending on fast they come out of the deep dormancy caused by frozen ground. It would be a good project to compare order in milder Europe and the colder parts of the world.
johnw
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Brian - Your lost label looks a bit like Bushmills or am I daft? But then the ovary is not long enough ??? ??? ???
johnw - -3c
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Brian - Your lost label looks a bit like Bushmills or am I daft? But then the ovary is not long enough ??? ??? ???
johnw - -3c
No I don't have Bushmills John, the only Bushmills I know comes in a bottle ;D
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Just before I went to a meeting, which unfortunately meant sitting on the bypass for an hour and forty minutes because of an accident, I took this photo to show you how far behind my G.'Trimmer' is...at least there will be one flower ;)
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Two more today before it got too cold..
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Just before I went to a meeting, which unfortunately meant sitting on the bypass for an hour and forty minutes because of an accident, I took this photo to show you how far behind my G.'Trimmer' is...at least there will be one flower ;)
just noticed I hadn't put the photo on!
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Getting confused here. Emma showed a shot of ex Emma Thick which I assume is a seedling of 'Emma Thick'. Lettuce begin showed us x Emma Thick which I assume is the hybrid 'Emma Thick'. I am confused? ???
Emma can probably explain this better, but my understanding is that the snowdrop she found does not have a name of its own (it was not deemed quite worthy by the powers that be in the snowdrop world) so is simply referred to as "ex Emma Thick". Any other form of this name is simply an abbreviation. Despite it's lack of name I would be happy to grow this snowdrop in my collection if I got the chance.
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Cheryl,
Good to have you on the SRGC forum. Welcome!
Also, your "ex Emma Thick" is a very attractive snowdrop, very nicely marked and, although there may be others with similar marks, it is a good one to have.
It is no wonder John Weagle is confused over "ex" or "x" Emma Thick - after all he has been on the Bushmills.
This has brought on an urge to have an Irish coffee, with Bushmills, of course.
Paddy
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Just before I went to a meeting, which unfortunately meant sitting on the bypass for an hour and forty minutes because of an accident, I took this photo to show you how far behind my G.'Trimmer' is...at least there will be one flower ;)
Brian - You must be expecting a sizeable clump in the future with a Trimmer label that big!
Nice lot of Acton Pigot there Steve.
johnw
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If there is 'Trym,' and 'Trymmer' (or 'Trimmer') is there also a 'Trymmest?' (And what about 'Trimester?')
I ask because quite frankly, there's nothing else I can say in any of these Galanthus threads. Virtually nothing of what can be seen here on the Forum, except the commoner species, is available in New Zealand and not likely to be, unless Anthony D. successfully brings in his collection at some stage and builds it to a point where he may care to distribute a few. By that time I'll likely be in my grave. Some lovely pictures of lovely drops on previous pages but it seems I'll have to get my personal highs with Crocus. ::)
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Getting confused here. Emma showed a shot of ex Emma Thick which I assume is a seedling of 'Emma Thick'. Lettuce begin showed us x Emma Thick which I assume is the hybrid 'Emma Thick'. I am confused? ???
Olga - As I grow many snowdrops in pots the order of flowering may well be different when they are plant outdoors. Then we might see an entirely different order of bloom depending on fast they come out of the deep dormancy caused by frozen ground. It would be a good project to compare order in milder Europe and the colder parts of the world.
johnw
Apoligies for the confusion by leaving the e out of ex on my posting . As stated it was my third attempt finally posted at about 1.30 in the morning,
determined not to be beaten by a machine, I've been beaten by a typo instead. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I've been beaten by a typo instead. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join the club, Cheryl, we're all guilty of those!! :-[
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I've been beaten by a typo instead. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join the club, Cheryl, we're all guilty of those!! :-[
My favourite is when Brian gets called Brain. ;D
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I'll bet that's Brian's favourite too. ;D
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Bad lettuce >:( how dare you make a typo :P It should be Galanthus 'ex Emma Thick'
I was going to try and grow some seeds from it last year ,i had put pots of compost under the scapes and pegged them down onto the compost. All was well untill the dog discovered that flower pots were great chew toys :'(
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I've been beaten by a typo instead. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join the club, Cheryl, we're all guilty of those!! :-[
My favourite is when Brian gets called Brain. ;D
It's amazing how often I type it when touch typing ::)
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Alan and anyone else interested in small Narcissus a visit to Brian is amazing during March. Anne Wright has been. I've been going every March for about 5 years
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Brian - You must be expecting a sizeable clump in the future with a Trimmer label that big!
The width is 2cm so you can see how small my 'Trimmer' is!
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Mark
I promised you a pic of Enid Bromley. Yare tis.
Steve
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Very nice Steve, quite a broad ovary above what looks like very large outer petals.
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The ovary looks the same as Maidwell C but what about the inner mark?
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Mark
I promised you a pic of Enid Bromley. Yare tis.
Steve
Now that's interesting Steve, it looks to have quite a wide, short, claw whereas I would have said that of my 'Maidwell C' is longer and thinner. Which means that there is a difference between the two. Here for comparison an old pic of 'Maidwell C'.
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From your photographs, Steve and Brain(!), there certainly are differences between them. 'Enid Bromley' strikes me as a far fuller bloom, larger petals, wider, as Brian say, at the claw and generally clothing and covering the inner segments more completely than 'Maidwell C'.
Both are lovely flowers.
Paddy
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An odd happening in snowdrop life here.
In 2005 I bought one bulb of G. 'Beth Chatto' (Ģ12.50)from Beth Chatto's. When it arrived it had one mature bulb and one side bulb. Each year since 2005 it has produced one flower, something which disappointed me as I had hoped it would bulk up a little faster.
So, after five years with one flower per year, it is peeping above ground at the moment and it has six flowers. How odd but how welcome.
Paddy
Photograph from last year:
POST SCRIPTUM: FROM SUBSEQUENT DISCUSSION, BELOW, IT SEEMS CERTAIN THAT THE SNOWDROP IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS NOT 'BETH CHATTO' THOUGH IT WAS SOLD AS SUCH FROM THE BETH CHATTO GARDENS AND NURSERY. Paddy
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Paddy it's like my Armine. Never more than two bulbs
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Paddy
My Beth Chatto has ceased to be. I have no shoots, no flowers and no hope.
I will bestir myself to post a pic of the inner mark of Enid B as soon as daylight does what Beth Chatto refuses to do. :( :'( :o
Steve
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Mark,
Likewise, I have found 'Armine' slow enough to bulk up but it is coming on reasonably good.
Re 'Beth Chatto': it seems I now have three bulbs and each bulb has two flowers.
Paddy
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That's a pity, Steve. I like to have it for its association with the lady.
Paddy
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An odd happening in snowdrop life here.
In 2005 I bought one bulb of G. 'Beth Chatto' (Ģ12.50)from Beth Chatto's. When it arrived it had one mature bulb and one side bulb. Each year since 2005 it has produced one flower, something which disappointed me as I had hoped it would bulk up a little faster.
Paddy - I am glad you brought up the topic of G plicatus Beth Chatto. I have been a regular customer at Beth Chattos for over 15 years and try to get to her gardens at least every other year. I went to a snowdrop walk there last year and David Ward her head gardener talked about the Galanthus 'Beth Chatto'. He said they are not currently selling it as it has got totally confused with seedlings and he needs to sort through them to find the originals. I ordered G Beth Chatto this year (not from Beths) and am worried whether I will get the real thing or a rogue seedling. I am wondering whether to cancel the order.
Here is a link to a photo of Beth Chatto on Judys Snowdrops and it looks totally different to yours. I would like to know what the REAL Beth should look like but as you bought yours from BC I should hope it is correct? Jennie
http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plicatus/beth_chatto/beth_chatto.htm
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Jennie,
Certainly two completely different snowdrops. As I said, my snowdrop came from Beth Chatto's and I expect and hope that it is true to name.
Paddy
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I bought Beth Chatto from them a few years ago and got a bunch of mixed seedlings. Never bothered to complain. The photo on Janet's "Judy's Snowdrops" website doesn't match up with the description in the snowdrop book, and it also doesn't match yours too well either, Paddy. Beth Chatto is supposed to be a very rounded, "globular" flower. Yours seems to have quite long, narrow petals. There's a pic in the snowdrop book, of a rounded flower, but it doesn't show the inner mark. The description is "a basal triangle narrowly joined in the middle to an apical V with expanded rounded arm-ends". Yours seems to have two very widely separated marks.
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Here is a picture of G.'Beth Chatto' taken at Rod Leeds in 2006, it was this clump that caught my attention. I too had hoped to buy one, but was told by the people at Beth Chatto's that it had seeded and they would have to wait until it had flowered to select the correct ones...I still haven't got it, but it seems quite different to yours Paddy.
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Brian,
That's completely different to mine. It's a much fuller and more rounded flower. I think I may have received one of the seedlings. Such a pity and such a nuisance.
Paddy
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Sorry Paddy
I did not mean for you to be disenchanted with your snowdrop. I just wanted to get to the bottom of how the flower should look.
Maybe I should email Beth Chatto nursery and ask if they have a picture of the real thing.
Jennie
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Here's mine from last year and yes its a slow grower!
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Paddy, I wonder whether you have got Galanthus elwesii ex Beth Chatto which I seem to remember was on ebay last year rather than Galanthus plicatus 'Beth Chatto'?
Sorry just looked back and saw that you bought it from Beth Chatto Gardens. I would be inclined to have a word with them, they seem very good about such things.
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I think they were sending out various different seedlings as Beth Chatto for some time before they realized (presumably when someone complained). As I said earlier, I was sent mixed seedlings a few years ago (maybe 3 years ago). I didn't bother complaining as I was very busy and didn't realise this was a common occurrence with their stock - thought I'd just been unlucky. Janet's photo on 'Judy's Snowdrops' looks right for flower shape but you can't see the mark properly - it looks too thick in the middle but might look more right with the flower wider open. In the best photo I've seen of the true thing I recall the flower looked like a light-bulb when closed up - very globular.
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Brian/Jennie - Thanks for pointing out the discrepancies as it seems that mine is an elwesii. The plicatus Beth Chatto at Rod's is a beauty at that stage.
Yet another huge snow storm barreling toward us.
johnw
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Brian - Thanks for pointing out the discrepancies as it seems that mine is an elwesii.
I think we owe thanks to Jennie for alerting us ;)
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So at the conclusion of this thread, is there an accepted authoritative Beth Chatto (if so, growing where?) and is there an accepted authoritative image of it (again, which one?).
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Well, Steve, I can say, with some confidence, that the definitive 'Beth Chatto' does not reside in my garden and that my photograph above is not an accurate representation of said bulb.
Paddy
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Out of interest, here is a copy of an e-mail sent to the Beth Chatto Nursery this morning. If there is a response, I will post it here.
Paddy
username=Paddy Tobin
usermail=pmtobin@eircom.net
comment=http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6443.msg182771#msg182771
Please refer to the link above where there is a short discussion on Galanthus plicatus 'Beth Chatto'. You will read of my purchase of a bulb of same from you in 2005 and my delight that after five years of producing only one flower each year it is now showing six flower buds this spring. However, on posting a photograph from last year, other members of the Scottish Rock Garden Forum have pointed out that the bulb I grow is not true to description and is not, in fact, G. 'Beth Chatto' at all.
Can you rectify this for me, please?
Yours Sincerely, Paddy Tobin, Waterford, Ireland
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So at the conclusion of this thread, is there an accepted authoritative Beth Chatto (if so, growing where?) and is there an accepted authoritative image of it (again, which one?).
pp146/7 of the monograph is the answer Steve. I would think that respected growers like Rod Leeds and Janet Lecore, who have both been growing for some time, are more than likely to have the correct form, and I know that Janet would check on hers regularly to ensure so. We can only continue looking for it, I have seen it on lists, rarely, but am loathe to part with money unless I know the grower/seller is likely to have the true form....perhaps I am getting too cynical, but money doesn't grow on trees even though it seems like it with ebay prices ::) ::)
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Brian
I agree absolutely. Prices apart, we have got to have certainty that the label against a plant in the garden is accurate - after all, there are too many look-alike named varieties for us to say well, it looks like X" or I think it might be X".
Steve
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This 'Beth Chatto' picture on a normally reliable German website looks like something else again:
http://www.galanthus-online.de/kultivare-a-d/beth-chatto.html
Janet's looks quite globular, but the mark seems to be pretty thick in the middle while the book says the basal and apical marks should be narrowly joined. It's a pity the pic in the book is so small and doesn't show the mark.
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This 'Beth Chatto' picture on a normally reliable German website looks like something else again:
http://www.galanthus-online.de/kultivare-a-d/beth-chatto.html
Janet's looks quite globular, but the mark seems to be pretty thick in the middle while the book says the basal and apical marks should be narrowly joined. It's a pity the pic in the book is so small and doesn't show the mark.
The plot thickens! Just a thought, but in a snowdrop like Galanthus 'Deerslot', the best mark is normally only present on one side, would this apply to others Martin?
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This 'Beth Chatto' picture on a normally reliable German website looks like something else again:
http://www.galanthus-online.de/kultivare-a-d/beth-chatto.html
Janet's looks quite globular, but the mark seems to be pretty thick in the middle while the book says the basal and apical marks should be narrowly joined. It's a pity the pic in the book is so small and doesn't show the mark.
The plot thickens! Just a thought, but in a snowdrop like Galanthus 'Deerslot', the best mark is normally only present on one side, would this apply to others Martin?
None that I'm aware of, but then I'm far from being the best person to answer that. Hopefully, if the true plant is still around, there might be a better picture in the new book. I guess it might be worthwhile someone asking the people at the Beth Chatto Gardens if they have a photo of he real thing that shows details of the mark.
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I have just mailed Beth Chatto nursery and asked for a photo of the real snowdrop G plicatus Beth Chatto.
I had to mail anyway as I had a string cutter without a blade and a Veronicastrum which did not grow last year, so I included my request for the photo within the same email. I hope to get a reply and I will post the photograph if and when I get one.
The plot thickens. I thought I had a photo from last year as it was on display but on closer inspection I noted I had taken it of the wrong plant and it was G Armine which was next to it :)
Jennie
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I had to mail anyway as I had a string cutter without a blade and a Veronicastrum which did not grow last year ...
Good for you Jennie. All too often I shut up and put up having receiving diseased or misidentified bulbs (not from BC).
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I spoke to Joe tonight and he says
"Beth Chatto should have a perfect hour glass inner mark that is never two marks"