Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: jamouatt on February 12, 2008, 06:24:27 PM
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Came across these in a Cambridgeshire wood and was wondering if they were Galanthus plicatus 'Wandlebury Ring' ?
They were so beautiful in the sunshine, fair took my breath away. It has started me emptying my piggy-bank on a yellow Galanthus collection.
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Looks more like Wendy's Gold. This is Wandlebury Ring - sorry for the poor quality
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I had not noticed that that group was different to the larger clump next to it which from your photo looks like yours.
Much appreciated.
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All mixed up now having just looked at a photo of Galanthus plicatus 'Bill Clarke' where the inner colouring is half height like my first posting save for the colour, 'Bill Clarke' being much more yellow. It was this half height inner coulour which I thought you were pointing out as the difference. Is there a reference work where one can look up the characteristics of the Galanthus yellows?
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I am curious about the location of the wood where you found your yellow snowdrop (although it might not be a good idea to reveal it in a public forum such as this). Were there many other Galanthus plicatus growing in your wood? A wood full of plicatus would be quite a remarkable thing in itself, for the UK. I live in Cambridgeshire and have never come across one. Plicatus are quite common around churchyards, although not nearly so common as nivalis. If you found an isolated clump of yellow snowdrops, this would probably indicate human intervention, for whatever reason.
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Here are the three for comparison
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Mark, for the benefit of the 'mildly' interested amongst us would you please point out the differences between them. To me the pictures 2 and 3 look exactly the same and only dif :-[fer from 1 in the length of the petal mark (and that could be an optical illusion) :-[
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I would say you are correct - all different but similar. From experience when Bill is performing well he can have almost a good free range egg yolk mark
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Ok you say all similar but different-but how would I tell Wendlebury Ring and Wendy apart if I wanted to buy one of them? I'm not winding you up I'm serious, I want to learn more.
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Easy, one is two a penny and the other is hen's teeth
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Mmmmm. I like Wandlebury Ring. Guess it''ll have to go on my ever-increasing wants list? ::)
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Anthony I'm top of a waiting list, I hope, so you can be top of mine
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Easy, one is two a penny and the other is hen's teeth
What, no other difference? Surely there must be or how would the expert know if he was paying top whack but getting the cheaper plant/ ???
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I think the difference between the Wandlebury yellows hits on one of the difficult issues with snowdrop nomenclature. All three are from the same area and presumably similar genetic stock. Each is distinct but the differences are not large, at least not to the untrained eye. Perhaps more will turn up in due course? Perhaps they too will be named? But that is going down a road that leads to thousands upon thousands of named snowdrops.
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Easy, one is two a penny and the other is hen's teeth
What, no other difference? Surely there must be or how would the expert know if he was paying top whack but getting the cheaper plant/ ???
David - your basic question is very reasonable & you are clearly touching on one of the great difficulties in the snowdrop world - it seems that, increasingly, the differences between various snowdrops are very subtle! Hopefully, Mark can go a little further than basing the difference on price.
But you also, indirectly, touch on another issue - provenance! Whatever the subtleties, being able to trace your particular snowdrop back to the original stock of that name is both very important and of great value. I always try to discover as much as I can about the origins of the snowdrops that I buy/exchange - if I can acquire the snowdrop from the breeder/finder of the snowdrop, all well and good, but if not, then I am looking for some evidence that 'it is what it says on the label'!
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Yes and no. To my eyes from Mark's three photos there are distinct differences in the size and shape of the coloured area of the inner petals. This makes me now think that my first photo is Bill Clarke as it is only half height. As to the colour differences that is another unknown to me. Does the colour change from year to year, the accuracy of the colours as vieved on photos and online etc?
Mark't shot of Galanthus plicatus 'Wandlebury Ring' shows a distinct V shape back to back (point part to point part).
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Mmmmm. I like Wandlebury Ring. Guess it''ll have to go on my ever-increasing wants list? ::)
Anthony - it could be a long wait - this snowdrop seems to be rather weak in constitution and, as a consequence, rather prone to succumbing to stagonospora curtisii etc. I am trying to help a friend whose 'Wandlebury Ring' went down with stagno - in order to twin scale, we had to cut away virtually all of the layers of the bulb, but managed to get a reasonable number of chips which, thus far, are doing well - it will be interesting to see whether twin scaling has the effect of re-invigorating this snowdrop, in much the same way as has happened with g. elwesii 'Carolyn Elwes'.
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David I have seen this snowdrop in only 3 gardens including one over here. While Wendy fetches around £15, and more on Ebay, I expect Wandlebury Ring to be up for auction when released or at least be around £40 to £50 from a supplier. I have no actual idea on costs those quoted are guesses. The one over here was a gift and those in England were flowering groups from twinscaled gifts. I'm sure the big boys are bulking it.
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Thanks Chris and Alan for your replies, can I pick up with you both on a couple of points please?
Alan, in your reply you refer to '.......the differences are not large, at least to the untrained eye......'. You are obviously an experienced Snowdrop grower but how would you go about explaining to the novice just what the differences are between Wandlebury Ring and Wendy's Gold firstly because I would like to know, but secondly, and more importantly, today's novice has to be tomorrow's expert.
Chris, you say '.......... looking for some evidence that it is what it says on the label....' Again, you are an experienced grower, I am a novice, so how do you tell me what to look for, or, are all of us, really, just second guessing?
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David I have seen this snowdrop in only 3 gardens including one over here. While Wendy fetches around £15, and more on Ebay, I expect Wandlebury Ring to be up for auction when released or at least be around £40 to £50 from a supplier. I have no actual idea on costs those quoted are guesses. The one over here was a gift and those in England were flowering groups from twinscaled gifts. I'm sure the big boys are bulking it.
Mark, with respect you haven't answered my question. If Wandlebury Ring was to come on EBay at £50 and you bought it, grew it on and flowered it, the day would come when you would compare it to Wendy's Gold. How will YOU know that you haven't wasted your money and bought Wendy's Gold at over the odds. Sorry to go on but I really do want to know.
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I wouldnt buy it from Ebay because that is where someone will sell Wendy as Wandlebury. I would only buy it from a supplier like the Snowdrop Company, Monksilver or off Avon's special list.
Out of interest do you own the snowdrop book?
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Chris, you say '.......... looking for some evidence that it is what it says on the label....' Again, you are an experienced grower, I am a novice, so how do you tell me what to look for, or, are all of us, really, just second guessing?
David - I think that the point I was trying to make was to try to buy from reliable sources, do not be afraid to ask questions to try and authenticate the snowdrop, before you pay out your money, obviously have a good look at the snowdrop before you buy it and compare it to known published sources e.g. 'Snowdrops' book, RHS Daffodils, Tulips & Snowdrops Yearbook etc.
A lot of comment has been made on the forum about the, at times, extraordinary prices being paid on ebay for snowdrops - I have no problem with someone spending their own money however they choose to do so, but I do worry that many of them are buying absolutely blind - the saving grace, at the moment, is that most of the sellers on ebay seem to be genuine snowdrop people and go to some lengths to ensure that what they sell 'is what it says on the label' - I hope that this will last, but fear that it will not.
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I wouldnt buy it from Ebay because that is where someone will sell Wendy as Wandlebury. I would only buy it from a supplier like the Snowdrop Company, Monksilver or off Avon's special list.
Out of interest do you own the snowdrop book?
No Mark, I don't have the book and I don't think I shall ever grow enough varieties of 'Snowies' to make it worthwhile. So you would trust the supplier to get it right, but what if his supplier had got it wrong-then we all in the soup? ::)
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Matt says
Wendy mid '70s - mark and elongated V covering 2/3rds of the inner petal with two short raised arms
Bill '87- mark 2/5ths of the inner petal and a solid circular blotch except for the notch
Wandlebury '91 - mark 2/5th of the inner petal and an oval shape except for the notch. Taller than Wendy
Wendy has the largest mark
Wandlebury is a selected crossing between Wendy and other yellow snowdrops. Responds well to twinscaling
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David,
There had been an increased naming of snowdrop which have very little difference to others already in circulation. It has to be remembered that for a great many people snowdrops are a collecting hobby and while there are people who want to collect there will be people who will make 'new' snowdrops available for them to collect - at a price.
We recently had mention of the amazingly high price of that newly available snowdrop, Ecusson d'Or (this was a guess at the spelling, I'm afraid). It is indeed amazing that someone paid so much but at the other end of this arrangement was a seller rubbing his/her hands together in glee. But, I suppose it was their money to spend as they wish. Too much for my pocket though.
I think it better to spend some time looking through the snowdrop book and choosing those snowdrops which appeal to you. I imagine that the majority of those you choose will turn out to be tried and trusted cultivars and probably in existence for many years and so available at more reasonable prices.
There will always be snowdrops for which you will be willing to pay more - those which are distinctly different, have a connection with a person or place which has some significance to you. Many a snowdrop which is not particularly distinct can be treasured because of its connections.
Paddy
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Easy, one is two a penny and the other is hen's teeth
What, no other difference? Surely there must be or how would the expert know if he was paying top whack but getting the cheaper plant/ ???
The three flowers pictured are very different in the size and shape of the yellow mark. The two Ws have full marks, but Wandlebury's is forked at the top. This of course may not be a diagnostic feature but it is certainly one that I spotted, and that's without my specs on! 8)
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Mentioning 'Ecusson', rumour in England says I bought it on Ebay
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I think that rumour has just spread a little further Mark, but your secret's safe with me. ;)
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Alan, in your reply you refer to '.......the differences are not large, at least to the untrained eye......'. You are obviously an experienced Snowdrop grower but how would you go about explaining to the novice just what the differences are between Wandlebury Ring and Wendy's Gold firstly because I would like to know, but secondly, and more importantly, today's novice has to be tomorrow's expert.
David, flattering though it is, it is quite wrong to think I am an experienced grower. I have only been growing snowdrops for a few years and have made more mistakes and had more bad 'luck' than many. Snowdrops planted in some areas of my garden just do not reappear and I have yet to work out why. A few years ago I constructed a raised bed devoted to snowdrops and this has been very successful so far, but who knows if this will last? I have been mildly adept or lucky at finding new snowdrops and this has helped to keep me going.
I have Wendy's Gold and, after a very very shaky start, this is doing quite well for me. I don't see the other two as being hugely different so would not spend large sums of money to acquire them. It would be nice to have a similar yellow with a fuller mark on the inners, but that is the only area where I see room for improvement.
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I personally think Bill Clark is a better flower
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rumour in England says I bought it
You'll be pleased to know the rumour has not reached East Anglia, what's more you are far too canny to spend that much on Ecusson D'Or when you are saving up to go to Turkey ;)
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Anyway Mark, I thought you'd bought one from Monksilver?
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A lot of comment has been made on the forum about the, at times, extraordinary prices being paid on ebay for snowdrops - I have no problem with someone spending their own money however they choose to do so, but I do worry that many of them are buying absolutely blind - the saving grace, at the moment, is that most of the sellers on ebay seem to be genuine snowdrop people and go to some lengths to ensure that what they sell 'is what it says on the label' - I hope that this will last, but fear that it will not.
Unfortunately it has already happended to me :-[ I purchased three Wendy's Gold off an ebay seller early in 2007. She was an unkown for snowdrops - but had a very high feedback rating for hundreds of other things. She gave a great history in the description about her grade 2 listed house and the established garden - which made me think that it was going to be the real thing even though she hadn't herself purchased it. The photo was definately Wendys Gold.
When the parcel arrived it was 2 plain nivalis with one daughter bulb!!! It took me many emails and eventually a letter threatening to involve the family solicitor before I got a partial refund. It was a horrible expereince in which I was accused of 'trying to steal these desireable and rare bulbs from her' - it will be a very long time before I buy a plant from ebay again.
I am sure there are many honest people on ebay but from my personal experience I would rather swap with other growers known to me or buy from the reputable sources.
John
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Anyway Mark, I thought you'd bought one from Monksilver?
Wasn't it 3 from Monksilver?! ;D ;D ;D
John
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John have you got Wendy's Gold?
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John have you got Wendy's Gold?
Hi mark
yes thanks, I had it already - but thought I would make a quick clump with a 'bargain' from ebay. The 'Wendys nivalis' are now in a border at my mums house (with a small label next to them that has 'galanthus ebay bitch' written on it!)
cheers
John
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If anybody is looking for a Wendy's Gold, I have three flowering bulbs in a pot that are surplus to my needs. I would be happy to swap any of these for other snowdrops. They are all offsets from a single original bulb bought from Monksilver Nurseries. Send me a Personal Message if you are interested.
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Galanthomania? ;)
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/white-gold-britains-new-love-for-snowdrops-780191.html
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is it me or do so many yellow cultivars look so similar?
rob
ah! a man after my own heart. ;D
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But we celebrate the differences ::)
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But we celebrate the differences ::)
:P
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At least two people have offered them to you Rob so what's the problem?
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Rob whats with you!!!! Stop going on about (insert a choice word) Wendy's Gold. I've offered it twice and now Alan Briggs is offering it to you.
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With me becomes " Wandlebury Ring " about 20 cm high and is very grown. If this is with You also in such a way. ???
Günter
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Günter, I have not seen 'Wandlebury Ring' but I am surprised that a yellow form would be so tall as 20cm..... to my mind, the yellows are usually weaker, smaller types. With 20cms height, yours must be a good strong grower?
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Günter, I have not seen 'Wandlebury Ring' but I am surprised that a yellow form would be so tall as 20cm..... to my mind, the yellows are usually weaker, smaller types. With 20cms height, yours must be a good strong grower?
Ich habe 2 und beide werden so hoch.
Günter
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Very good.
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Günter, I have not seen 'Wandlebury Ring' but I am surprised that a yellow form would be so tall as 20cm..... to my mind, the yellows are usually weaker, smaller types. With 20cms height, yours must be a good strong grower?
Ich habe 2 und beide werden so hoch.
Günter
It's a very long time since I learned German at school but I think the reply from Günter translates as:
"I have 2 and both are that tall"
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I have made my first venture into the yellows with a G. sandersii......I doubt it will ever be as tall as the stately 'Wandlebury Ring' though I hope it will enjoy life here in Aberdeen. A friend has offered me a 'Wendy's Gold' which I have gratefully accepted. This a moment of weakness, perhaps.... I have been offered it before and turned it down..... :-[ :-[ It seems my future may be bright and.... yellow! ::)
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I hope you didnt buy the Sandersii! Ask before you buy
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Yes, I did, Mark... I know you have made generous offers of snowies to me before... I am not ungrateful, really... just saw them in front of me and thought that young nurseryman has wife and children to feed!
Besides, I also know that the world and his wife chase you for bulbs.... I try not to do that..... much ! ::)
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Günter, I have not seen 'Wandlebury Ring' but I am surprised that a yellow form would be so tall as 20cm..... to my mind, the yellows are usually weaker, smaller types. With 20cms height, yours must be a good strong grower?
Ich habe 2 und beide werden so hoch.
Günter
It's a very long time since I learned German at school but I think the reply from Günter translates as:
"I have 2 and both are that tall"
genau richtig übersetzt :D :D
Günter
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Does it need a friend to spend the long summer days and nights with?
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Does it need a friend to spend the long summer days and nights with?
Alan's translation or my new sandersii? :D
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Your snowdrop
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Ah! Well, in that case, yes, it would :-* :-*
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I had the privilege of meeting Bill Clark today. Despite the spelling in the snowdrop book, he confirmed that his surname is spelt without an "e". So the snowdrop that is supposed to be named after him (shown earlier) should correcly be called "Bill Clark".
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I see the snowdrop book is also on Ebay.
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No guesses who is bidding ;)
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Several choices on AbeBooks for £40.... seems reasonable ::)..for second edition
One in Australia for first editon is aa bit steep at nearly £68 :o
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or did you mean this snowdrop book......by Guy Smith....
[attach=1]
"For centuries its dark shape had loomed beside a waterfall in Switzerland, the home of the evil Reichenbach family. The last of their race had been a Nazi torturer, murdered by one of his victims. Now the big house lies empty, but evil forces still surround it - and countless human skeletons are buried in the grounds. When Al Pennant, a wealthy antiques-dealer, buys the deserted mansion, his family finds it full of nameless terrors, echoing the screams of tortured victims. So Al decides to ship it back to America piece by piece, hoping thus to dispel its dark influences. But strange visitations and putrefying spectres continue to plague the living inhabitants with terror and madness and always the smell of rotting flesh. For this place belongs to the devil's henchman and a single blood-soaked snowdrop is the symbol of his sway."
Tumm..tarrumpummm....pummmm !!
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Not me just referring to Rob
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Also Pickabook.co.uk is listing Snowdrops for £35.55 delivered.
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Is that the new edition? Is it worth getting it if you already have the first edition?
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Is that the new edition? Is it worth getting it if you already have the first edition?
Apparently the only change to the second edition is an altered index which lists snowdrop varieties differently so you don't have to know which species they're a form of (or if they're a hybrid) to find them. Apart from that, exactly the same as the first edition.
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Thanks Martin.
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Also Pickabook.co.uk is listing Snowdrops for £35.55 delivered.
Never used this firm...do you, jamouat, or anybody else have experience of their service?
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I used them last year Maggi with no problems. I have Snowdrops on order with them; it is a special order item.
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Jusr checked my account at Pickabooks and it is showing estimated dispatch date of 4th March.
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jamouatt, thanks for this... I like to have a personal report before jumping in to a new site!
"jamouatt".... can't go on calling you this, so, meantime, I will rename you "Jammy Donut" 8) ;)
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ID required.
I found this today growing up through a rhododendron and I think that it might be Wendy's gold as I did have it a few years ago but lost it. I am including a pic of the leaf.
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Looks like 'Wendy's Gold' to me. Amazing how a snowdrop can sometimes come back from just a scrap of a bulb when you think you've lost it all - often the remains of a bulb won't put up any leaves but make a new bulb on its basal plate (just like chipping) which comes up a year later then (when you aren't watching for it because you thought the whole thing was lost) it it builds up back to a flowering size bulb again.
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Amazing how a snowdrop can sometimes come back from just a scrap of a bulb when you think you've lost it all - often the remains of a bulb won't put up any leaves but make a new bulb on its basal plate (just like chipping) which comes up a year later then (when you aren't watching for it because you thought the whole thing was lost) it it builds up back to a flowering size bulb again.
This remarkable ability to survive is just one of the things that most intrigues me about bulbs.... extraordinary will to live in those lumpy things... who'd have thought it??!
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Just had email from Pickabook to say that they have dispatched "Snowdrops".
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Michael,
OK, I give up.... on your ID pic of the Wendy's Gold at the end of the last page.... the second pic is entitled Galanthus and Hepatica leaves...... Other than the Gal, I can only see Rhododendron leaves in the picture? or are there new versions of Hepaticas that are a little different to my experiences? ;D
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Michael,
OK, I give up.... on your ID pic of the Wendy's Gold at the end of the last page.... the second pic is entitled Galanthus and Hepatica leaves...... Other than the Gal, I can only see Rhododendron leaves in the picture? or are there new versions of Hepaticas that are a little different to my experiences? ;D
I'm seeing them too Paul.
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I wondered about that, too, but I think I came to a reasonable answer... though we'll see what the man himself says... I believe "Galanthus and Hepatica" leaves are simply the name for the file where Michael has these pix stored..... 8) ??? ::)
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You got it in one Maggi, that is the file name. Remember I am using Vista and some of the programmes are not compatible,so sometimes things do not work out as intended.
I would have to load each picture under a new file name,and I don't have the time to do that.
Cheers.
Michael.
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no time! A photo can be named twice. Once you save an edited image immediately resave again under a different name
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Thanks Mark, I am beginning to think that this forum is more interested in finding fault than a genuine interest in plants. Some of our none English speaking members often make mistakes which I fully understand, and would never consider correcting. They are
doing their best under the circumstances which is exactly what I am doing.
I will have to seriously consider if I should continue to partake in this forum.
Just got word that my brother is dead, so goodbye.
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Michael,
So sorry to hear of your brother's death. My sympathies are with you on this sad occasion.
Regarding the forum: yes indeed, there are times when some (No, not you Maggi if you are reading this) take on the role of correcting other people's postings, naming of plants etc but please don't let this put you off. It is not something that is a general practice and the vast majority of members are simply the best in the world and certainly welcome your contributions and continued participation. And anyway, you do need to show these Brits and mainlanders how to grow plants properly.
Paddy
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there are times when some take on the role of correcting other people's naming of plants etc but please don't let this put you off.
This is precisely why I enjoy this site so much. Such comments force me to scramble to the books and photos to research a possibly mis-named plant in my collection.
Condolences Michael and I do hope you will return.
johnw
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My fondest regards to Michael and the others in his family at this sorrowful time.