Specific Families and Genera > Pleione and Orchidaceae

GREX names

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SteveC2:
I can’t help thinking that you are coming at this from a very different angle to most orchid growers, especially the “serious” ones.  I have found that AGS showers are far less religious about “correct” names and labelling than orchid shows.  God forbid you use capitals in the wrong place at an Orchid show.   You talk about “rules” but orchid growers have very strict rules about naming, which are no less valid than others and part of the problem is that with increasing popularity of orchids, particularly cypripediums, people not familiar with the rules are buying plants. Using words like cheating seems very unfair to me as the system has been in place since the 19th century. The grex name is a really useful piece of information, which is available for most orchid crosses as they are man made. It lets you know the parentage and with cypripedium, for instance, I know to avoid any grew with montanum in the breeding as they do not like our hot summers.Cultivar names are also given to some plants, as with many Pleione, and I have problems when people stop using the grex.  You think it is a new hybrid but instead it is just a trade name. At least I can look it up on the RHS list.   Cultivar names are a far bigger mystery to me, often given to random finds, with no knowledge of parents, to plants not really any different to other cultivars, and then people start selling seedlings, not divisions of plants. 

ptallbo:
Yes getting into this as normal gardener that want to know what I am growing in my garden. Buying something named Henric in my world will be the same plants and the same looking plant if I buy another Henric 3 years later. In this case with Henric it might be a slightly problem since it is not sure you will find a plant that looks the same as the one you have since they are sold as seedlings from that grex. It is this point that I am meaning that if you as a grower refuse to add gx/grex to the name, as the rules are saying,  it is cheating the buyers since they are buying a Henric with a specific look and might get something looking different. Only using the Henric together with gx/grex makes it clear it can be differences in the plant. Using Henric should be new plants from cloning or divisions. As a normal buyer you are not supposed to know where to look to find out if it is a grex or so. Comment from the grower saying that it looks bad in the catalogs and that people do not understand what grex is, sounds like following rules are not that important.

aldo:
I think you are confusing the grex name (or, also, the species name) with the clonal name. Also for tomatoes, if you want an Ivory Egg, you don't have to buy a Solanum lycopersicum (or Lycopersicon esculentum), species name, but a Solanum lycopersicum 'Ivory Egg', clonal name

ptallbo:
Yes but in this case if you buy a Henric today and another tomorrow it might not be the same looking plant. So no I am not confused, only confused how a well known grower just do not care about naming it by the rules. If I want to buy a plant named Henric then I assume that all plants I buy will be looking the same, not getting one with pink flowers and the other with light pink flowers. I am not new into growing plants .....

GordonT:
There are several reasons why a particular grex can produce plants with widely differing traits. For instance, Cypripedium Ulla Silkens is a primary hybrid between Cypripedium reginae,and Cypripedium flavum. All plants from any cross between these two species are Cyp. Ulla Silkens.  Since alba forms of both species exist, these could be used to make the same cross. The resulting seedlings from this cross will look very different from a seedling of the same cross which used dark colour forms of Cypripedium reginae and Cypripedium flavum. The first cross (using alba plants) is likely to be pure white, or very pale yellow, while the cross using dark coloured varieties will probably have plenty of rose pink in the lip. Both plants are still Cypripedium Ulla Silkens.

What ought to happen,is that specific colour forms of a hybrid needs a clonal name as well... so you might eventually be able to purchase plants of Cyp.Ulla Silkens 'Ghost', or Cyp. Ulla Silkens 'Ruby Toes' (these are fictional clonal names made up by me, for the sake of argument). You would then know full well what they will eventually look like in your garden. I think the catch with Cypripediums is that in vitro propagation of clonal varieties from explants is a relatively new process.

I was a bit disappointed to see that a particular clone of Cypripedium Sebastian is being sold without its grex name as well, instead being listed as Cyp 'Frosch's Mountain King' when by standard practice, it ought to appear as Cyp Sebastian 'Frosch's Mountain King'

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