Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Steve Garvie on April 04, 2020, 09:31:06 AM
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The first two to open here are both pot-grown plants kept under cold glass over the Winter.
Paeonia clusii -first time flowering from seed sown in January 2016.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49730883958_0af700c306_o_d.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49731433161_e4b4f539bc_o_d.jpg)
Paeonia mascula -I bought this from Aberconwy as “ mascula ssp russoi Reverchonii“ but others have suggested it is not this form. Either way it is a nice plant. The flowers open darker and then mature to a paler pink colour.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49730885743_0df480f083_o_d.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49730885283_e0b7872f2c_o_d.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49731433751_2dd7fbbd4b_o_d.jpg)
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what's the size of the container? I grow mine in 6L pots 30cm high.
mascula ssp. russoi is simply Paeonia corsica, reverchonii was given for plants colledted in Sardinia, Mt Limbardo.
Sardinian plants have very dark leaves with copper highlights, which is not the case on your photo.
Does your plant has hairiness below the leaves?
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Hi Yann, thanks for your comments.
No my mascula has no hairs under the leaves.
The P. clusii is in a 10L pot.
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Fantastic plants Steve - the foliage on that clusii looks so healthy. You've done well to get it to flower from a 2016 sowing.
My plant from AGS seed as P. mascula ssp russoi sown in 2013 is going to have its first flowering soon (she says, touching wood hastily!). The undersides of its leaves are amazing - feel just like cotton wool. Currently vying with obovata alba to be my first peony in flower.
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mascula ssp. russoi is simply Paeonia corsica, reverchonii was given for plants colledted in Sardinia, Mt Limbardo.
Simple when you follow Hong & Wang 2006, but not so simple with the lastest studies as they say that there is no P. corsica in Sardinia.
The lastest paper on this group in the western mediterranean Islands is Taxonomic discrimination of the Paeonia mascula group in the Tyrrhenian Islands by seed image analysis (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338501794_Taxonomic_discrimination_of_the_Paeonia_mascula_group_in_the_Tyrrhenian_Islands_by_seed_image_analysis) by Marco Sarigu, Marco Porceddu, Eric Schmitt, Ignazio Camarda & Gianluigi Bacchetta. The same technics of seeds analysis has also been used for Fritillaria in Greece (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335961408_Seed_morphology_in_the_genus_Fritillaria_Liliaceae_from_Greece_and_its_taxonomic_significance).
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I just used flora gallica and flora d'italia to compare description.
Plants form Sardinia have long hairs under leaves not the case of corsican ones[attachimg=1]
An interesting publication: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255966260_The_genus_Paeonia_L_in_Italy_Taxonomic_survey_and_revision (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255966260_The_genus_Paeonia_L_in_Italy_Taxonomic_survey_and_revision)
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I just used flora gallica and flora d'italia to compare description.
Plants form Sardinia have long hairs under leaves not the case of corsican ones (Attachment Link)
An interesting publication: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255966260_The_genus_Paeonia_L_in_Italy_Taxonomic_survey_and_revision (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255966260_The_genus_Paeonia_L_in_Italy_Taxonomic_survey_and_revision)
Sorry Yann, maybe I misunderstood you. It would be easier, at least for me, to speak and understand french but I think that very few other members would understand ;D
From you first post, I understood that it was simply P. corsica (which don't grow in Sardinia)
I also just wanted to say that "you" can not simply apply a synonymy to a paeonia coming from a nursery with an old name and without knowing from which country it comes from, specially with a Paeonia of the mascula complex from mediterranean island. There has been so many names, so many descriptions, that it can't be simple ;).
About hairs under leaves, from Flora gallica, both P. corsica and P. morisii have or don't have hairs under leave, this is not a caracter to differentiate these two species.
Below, a table and a key from Camarda (2019) "Paeonia sandrae (Paeoniaceae) species nova of Sardinia and relationship with peonies of Corsica and Sicily" (because it can also be Paeonia sandrae if Steve's plant originally came from Sardinia !)
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Paeonia obovata alba, my first of the season. It hasn't really increased since last year and I shall have to be more disciplined about removing some of the self-sown Nigella (love-in-a-mist) which are out-competing a lot of plants...
[attachimg=1]
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Paeonia obovata alba, my first of the season. It hasn't really increased since last year and I shall have to be more disciplined about removing some of the self-sown Nigella (love-in-a-mist) which are out-competing a lot of plants...
Loving your photos, Gail, thank you. I'm astonished at you having this paeony so early - even with a mild season ours are a long way off!
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It opened on 14/4 last year so a bit earlier this year - we have greater need of cheering up...
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Sorry Yann, maybe I misunderstood you. It would be easier, at least for me, to speak and understand french but I think that very few other members would understand ;D
From you first post, I understood that it was simply P. corsica (which don't grow in Sardinia)
I also just wanted to say that "you" can not simply apply a synonymy to a paeonia coming from a nursery with an old name and without knowing from which country it comes from, specially with a Paeonia of the mascula complex from mediterranean island. There has been so many names, so many descriptions, that it can't be simple ;).
About hairs under leaves, from Flora gallica, both P. corsica and P. morisii have or don't have hairs under leave, this is not a caracter to differentiate these two species.
Below, a table and a key from Camarda (2019) "Paeonia sandrae (Paeoniaceae) species nova of Sardinia and relationship with peonies of Corsica and Sicily" (because it can also be Paeonia sandrae if Steve's plant originally came from Sardinia !)
I can't agree more, mascula complex is full of synomyms. I've downloaded the Camarda publication and will take a look tomorrow (another species!).
Gonna ask Tim Lever if its stock was raised from Archibald seeds, which this case will be Corsica as orign. Investigations continue :)
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Nice pic, Gail!
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Paeonia kavachensis sown 02/2015 giving its first flowers
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Gorgeous flower and fabulous photos!
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The P. mascula ssp russoi opened yesterday;
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as did P. tenuifolia;
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The last one is stunning, Gail!
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Paeonia cambessedesii
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49769274042_f5f7cbed8e_o_d.jpg)
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What a delicate and yet robust beauty, Steve!
Mine is still in bud, some trees are sulking (red and white) Purple one got only one flower and this is the 2nd year it has flowered. It took 7 years to smile!
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For the past couple of weeks the weather has been lovely but very windy and a couple of days ago this had been flattened. So out came some props and they saved it. This is a plant that never flowered in my back garden and two years ago I moved into the front garden and got my first flower last year. It seems to like it now.
Paeonia mlokosewitschii.
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In shade Paeonia obovata is at its best, it was sown 7 years ago.
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In shade Paeonia obovata is at its best.
That is true, in sun it goes over very quickly, and also the white colour shines in shade. :)
David, congratulations for finding a good place for your mlokosewitchii.
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Paeonia ostii:
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Another obovata, for the story the seeds are from North Korea and brought back by a friend who spent several weeks there.
He was able to buy on 2 markets almost one hundred of white packets with korean name on it. With my smartphone i translated more or less the name. Among these packets paid less than 1.3€ (!!) several rare Polygonatum i'll show later.
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first flowering of Paeonia mlokosevitschii in my garden (transplanted for years) it is beautiful but a little pink, then white the next day.
I would like to have this so delicate pale yellow hue .. maybe my 2 successful sowing in a few years ..
Paeonia tenuifolia: I find that it suffers a little from this very hot spring: for the first time the flowers tilt to turn their backs on the sun, and they have a darker color.
how do you do yann to advise them in pots and make them bloom? I can't make them grow in pots (too hot, maybe?)
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Véronique i grow my paeonies for 3 years in 3L pots, then 1 year in 5-6L pots depending on my stock.
The pots holes are 1cm-1.5cm holes to let the roots sink into the ground. I dig 7 cm into the ground and fill with crushed pine barks, grit,clay and a few compost. The 2 first year i don't move the pot at all because rootlets are near the bottom of the pots.
I can check the third spring is the root are in good state after the winter.
My stock are is in deep shade and during summer months when i'm away (yeah in a normal life :'( ) an automatic watering system inject water in the bed not the pots. This way it refresh the roots and excess water is drained away in the pine barks. The slow decomposition of the 5-8mm bark bring minerals.
When plants are mature the roots are 25-30cm deep in the soil, i just push slowly the pot to not damage the roots and voilà ready to be planted in the garden.
I saw in Spain many P. broteroi seedlings growing under pines in needles and barks, that gave me idea to reproduce what i saw.
Never lost a paeonie during our warm summers.
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This is a cross that I made many years ago:
P.coriacea x P.lactiflora 'White Wings'
Since I was not sure that P.coriacea could survive the winter here I had the idea to pollinate them with P.lactiflora pollen (so that at least the offspring survive)
Crossing was successful ... but P.coriacea was in the plant sky the next year
The plant here has survived all winter so far without problems ... but does not make seeds ...
You can see that the foliage of P.coriacea has been inherited (shape and color)
Also on the carpells ...
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2004 grown from w.c. seeds( SPIN Expedtion Italy ) :
Paeonia officinalis var. italica ex Gran Sasso
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P. mlokosewitschii (spellcheck suggests micro switch!)
This clear lemon form was a gift from a kind neighbour as I left mine in Suffolk.
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Very nice yellow, Gail. :)
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Some Paeonia species from last week
1. Paeonia japonica
2.+3. P. rockii
4.+5. Paeonia officinalis ex Monte Baldo/(Italy
Gerd
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The pink and white rockii are simply stunning. I must try to see if I can get one! Always want one.
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Received as ruprechtiana - but I have some doubts. What do you say?
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Paeonia tenuifolia ssp. lithophila
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First and only flower of Paeonia wendelboi
Gerd
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Some Paeonias:
Paeonia arietina alba was a gift of the late plantsman Ron Beeston,
generous and unforgetable
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White P.arietina is beautiful and P.officinalis from Lake Garda has such pretty petals, unusual. :)
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your officinalis seems to have a virus, does the bottom leaves look healthy?
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P tenuifolia 'Rosea'
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and the Sir Peter Smithers tree peony 'Lydia Foote'
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your officinalis seems to have a virus, does the bottom leaves look healthy?
Thank you Yann, I must look when I get to our Garden next time
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Thank you Yann, I must look when I get to our Garden next time
Yann,
I am wondering why you think the paeony has a virus - is it the Lake Garda one? Is it the patterning on the outer edge of the petals?
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my herbaceous peonies are still too young this year to flower .. still wait
pretty yellow Paeonia wendenboi
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Thank you Véronique!
Gerd
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Yann,
I am wondering why you think the paeony has a virus - is it the Lake Garda one? Is it the patterning on the outer edge of the petals?
Yes, i've seen thousands officinalis in Monte Baldo, Garda but no one with such pattern.
The Alfalfa mosaic virus can attack first roots, then only the flowers and the next year the leaves.
It's known to affect the petal's edges but may be i'm wrong and gonna send your photo to an expert in vegetal diseases.
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Paeonia tenuifolia ssp. lithophila.
Finally some clear days and flowers are fully open.
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White P.arietina is beautiful and P.officinalis from Lake Garda has such pretty petals, unusual. :)
Thank you Leena
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First two seedlings from an open pollinated ‘Nosegay’. Sown 2016. The darker flower looks a bit like ‘Pageant’ which sometimes overlaps in flowering, so maybe that’s where the pollen came from.
Tim DH
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Seedling No.3 is a surprise, Cerise Pink. …. Nothing like Mum or any of the nearby potential Dad’s!!
Tim DH
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A single bloom this year.
Paeonia emodi
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A Paeonia lactiflora I have had in the garden for many years but have never been able to take a reasonable picture.
[attachimg=1]
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David:
I find that taking pictures on a overcast day with these brightly colored flowers seems to give a better result.
The reds are just too vivid for the cameras to pick up in bright light.
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Thanks Arnold. We haven't had an overcast day for some weeks now, remarkable! ;D
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The legendary Paeonia mlokosewitchii - a good yellow form of "Molly The Witch" from Mosswood Nursery - was severely traumitized a few years ago when Ken had to lift it a few inches to be at ground level in its newly raised & top-dressed bed. It was touch and go for 3 years but now seems happy as a clam., its best show yet. john
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John:
Perfect example of bright blooms in the sun and shade.
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The legendary Paeonia mlokosewitchii - a good yellow form of "Molly The Witch" from Mosswood Nursery - was severely traumitized a few years ago when Ken had to lift it a few inches to be at ground level in its newly raised & top-dressed bed. It was touch and go for 3 years but now seems happy as a clam., its best show yet. john
Nice plant John. The one peony I tried many times and failed!!!
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The legendary Paeonia mlokosewitchii - a good yellow form of "Molly The Witch" from Mosswood Nursery - was severely traumitized a few years ago when Ken had to lift it a few inches to be at ground level in its newly raised & top-dressed bed. It was touch and go for 3 years but now seems happy as a clam., its best show yet. john
Very nice John. I find hard to capture the colour, mine looks a bit more lighter in pictures.
Due to the heat wave of last week many peonies were short flowering here. I didn't even have the chance to take a decent picture with P. japonica. P. mlokosewitschii and P. rockii are still blooming. I am very fond of their spring foliage and fruits but having flowers is a big bonus. Most of them were generous gifts from friends.
P. tenuifolia, was the first to flower earlier and lasted quite a bit
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P. mlokosewitschii
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P. mascula
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P. anomala - first time flowering
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P. rockii
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Paeonia x Itoh Bartzella
Hybridizer, year introduced: Roger Anderson, 1986.
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A couple of un-named Paeonia
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P. lactiflora 'Jan van Leeuwen' action shot ;D
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Peony season has started also here. :)
First to open was P.mairei (now over), then P.japonica (and P.obovata) which is still flowering.
Third picture is of a plant grown from seed ex, P.caucasica. It is a small plant and it has now flowered twice, and is always the earliest of P.daurica -group.
Fourth picture is a plant bought as P.officinalis ssp officinalis, but I have been told it is not true. Anyway it is a good plant with large flowers.
In the last picture there are plants grown from seeds as P.veitchii, they might also be hybrids, but they are fertile and very pretty small peonies.
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Paeonia x smouthii yesterday in the first picture, very similar is Paeonia x hybrida in the second. It is a naturally occuring cross between P.tenuifolia and P.anomala. The peony flowering with one flower behind it is P.mollis.
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Leena,
P. x smouthii is really beautiful, I haven't seen it before. Do you grow your paeonies in shade?
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It is a hybrid P.tenuifolia x P.lactiflora, much taller plant than P.tenuifolia and seems to be easy to please. It grows in full sun.
In shade or part shade I have P.mairei, P.obovata, P.japonica, some P.anomala, and P.daurica types. In full sun are P.officinalis types, and P.lactifloras. Quadruple hybrids are some in sun and some in part shade, mostly they don't require so much sun as lactifloras to flower.
Peonies and irises are such big plants and take all the sunny places in my garden, and most of the garden is semishade or shade. So even though I love peonies, I don't have enough room for them and there are much more places for shade plants. :)
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Thanks for the info, Leena. I have 5 or 6 plants of P. emodi in part shade and only one (the one in the sunnier spot) has several flowers this year. I am wondering whether to move the others to a sunnier place, or maybe just feed them? (I don't usually....)
I have grown several P obovata in shade but found it did not flower well. The one I have in full sun produces lots of flowers, but they don't last long in the sunshine, especially this year, as the spring has been so sunny. I moved some to a sunnier position last winter, so I will see next year if that helps.
I have 4 plants of P. tenuifolia which I grew from seeds from the seedex. They have flowered well this year and the foliage gets better and more finely divided each year. Such a good plant.
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Paeonia x smouthii yesterday in the first picture, very similar is Paeonia x hybrida in the second. It is a naturally occuring cross between P.tenuifolia and P.anomala. The peony flowering with one flower behind it is P.mollis.
Beautiful and interesting to hear about P. x smouthii - always something new to learn! I understand it is also a bit fragrant, a trait from lactiflora.
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Gabriela - fantastic collection. I'm so taken with P. mascula!
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I have 5 or 6 plants of P. emodi in part shade and only one (the one in the sunnier spot) has several flowers this year. I am wondering whether to move the others to a sunnier place, or maybe just feed them? (I don't usually....)
I don't have big P.emodi, so I can't say what you should do, but I once had 'Early Windflower' and it grew better in a sunny place. It then died one winter.
My P.obovata flower well in semishade, but like all single early ones, not for long. :(
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Early peonies go over so fast. They are wonderful though when in flower. :)
Here is another picture of P.x smouthii, it already over now.
The second picture is from my P.wittmanniana, or what I have gotten as such. It is not mlokosewitchii.
It's flowers are very very nice pale yellow, but the colour doesn't show in pictures. Very vigorous and good peony, which also has seeds.
The last peony is a one I have grown from my own open pollinated seeds of P.obovata ssp willmottiae, and obviously bees have been doing their work and I think this is cross with P.anomala which flowered at the same time and also it looks like intermediate between the two. I have five of these sister seedlings, all flowered already last year and are similar, and not one of them produced seeds so they are sterile hybrids. Flowers are big, about size of my palm.
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The last peony is a one I have grown from my own open pollinated seeds of P.obovata ssp willmottiae, and obviously bees have been doing their work and I think this is cross with P.anomala which flowered at the same time and also it looks like intermediate between the two. I have five of these sister seedlings, all flowered already last year and are similar, and not one of them produced seeds so they are sterile hybrids. Flowers are big, about size of my palm.
That's fascinating, any chance you could show a picture of a leaf? Any fragrance? It looks an awful lot like P. mairei, which, coincidentally, is native to the area of China where obovata and anomala meet.
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That's fascinating, any chance you could show a picture of a leaf? Any fragrance? It looks an awful lot like P. mairei, which, coincidentally, is native to the area of China where obovata and anomala meet.
Now that you mentioned it, the leaves do look like P.mairei. :) P.mairei is shorter plant, and flowers here two weeks before either P.obovata ssp willmottie or P.anomala. P.mairei is the first peony to flower here in spring.
I took pictures of the leaves. P.mairei leaves have thicker texture than leaves in my hybrid, and leaflets are slightly wider. P.mairei leaves have no hairs in the underside but my hybrid has some short hairs (like P.obovata ssp willmottiae). In my hybrids most plants have shiny leaves but one hasn't. The flowers have very faint fragrance, but it is nice. :)
Flowers of my hybrids open more pink, and they fade during flowering.
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Early peonies go over so fast. They are wonderful though when in flower. :)
Here is another picture of P.x smouthii, it already over now.
The second picture is from my P.wittmanniana, or what I have gotten as such. It is not mlokosewitchii.
It's flowers are very very nice pale yellow, but the colour doesn't show in pictures. Very vigorous and good peony, which also has seeds.
The last peony is a one I have grown from my own open pollinated seeds of P.obovata ssp willmottiae, and obviously bees have been doing their work and I think this is cross with P.anomala which flowered at the same time and also it looks like intermediate between the two. I have five of these sister seedlings, all flowered already last year and are similar, and not one of them produced seeds so they are sterile hybrids. Flowers are big, about size of my palm.
All beautiful Leena. The hybrid is gorgeous!
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Now that you mentioned it, the leaves do look like P.mairei. :) P.mairei is shorter plant, and flowers here two weeks before either P.obovata ssp willmottie or P.anomala. P.mairei is the first peony to flower here in spring.
Yes, it was the first to flower in my garden too, long before the other two. Thank you for the pictures, it really is stunning! You got me wanting to dig into seeing if there are any genetic studies on the relationship between the three, it's been too long since I looked at a peony paper.
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Thanks Gabriela. :)
You got me wanting to dig into seeing if there are any genetic studies on the relationship between the three, it's been too long since I looked at a peony paper.
I should look into the papers, too. :) It is very interesting how the leaves look like P.mairei leaves.
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Peony season got ahead of me this year, and I missed getting a photo of the first to bloom (Paeonia mloksewitschii). Molly was followed by rockii, and I am over the moon happy that the second seedling bloomed this year, and turned out to be a classic white, in contrast to the bright pink form that had its debut last year. They both are growing very well. It has been very windy and hot lately, so everything is going over quickly. The last blooms of 'Jan van Leeuwen' are beginning to shatter today.
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Paeonia cambessedesii in the rock garden
cheers
fermi
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Paeonia cambessedesii in the rock garden
cheers
fermi
That's a great plant, fermi!
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That's a great plant, fermi!
It's one I grew from seed in 1997 (I think). It's touch and go growing here because a hard frost can kill the buds but it flowers most years.
Here are pics of its neighbour Paeonia mascula russoi which flower a week earlier
cheers
fermi
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"Itoh" peonies are all the rage this year - they are a range of hybrids between herbaceous and tree peonies. They die down to some small branch like structures just above ground level so I suppose that they are technically "sub-shrubs".
We visited our friend Stephen Ryan who runs "Dicksonia Rare Plants Nursery" on Mt Macedon in July and bought one from him called "Pastel Splendour" which is flowering now (still in its pot!)
cheers
fermi