Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Travel / Places to Visit => Topic started by: Maggi Young on October 02, 2011, 06:10:26 PM

Title: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on October 02, 2011, 06:10:26 PM

[attachimg=1]
     Eastern landscape

[attachimg=2]
    Fritillaria armena in habitat

I am delighted to present to Forumists this information about a tour for 2012 that looks to be full of "eastern promise".
The photos accompanying this post are by Chris Gardner.

 [attachimg=3]
   Fritillaria aurea

Margaret and David Thorne (well known to members of the SRGC as stalwarts of the Borders Group and to those lucky folks who have travelled with the Thornes on the trips they have lead for various AGS tours) are organising a trip to Eastern Turkey, which will be led by botanical experts Professor Adil Güner,
his daughter Başak and son-in-law, Chris Gardner.

 [attachimg=4]
     Fritillaria persica Black Form

Experienced tour leaders Margaret and David have not yet visited this area themselves, so they have opted to organise this tour with Adil, Başak and Chris, so the "back-up" of botanical and local knowledge on the tour will be second to none.

 [attachimg=5]
     Iris sari

If you would love to explore the mountains of Turkey but are unsure of how to arrange such a trip yourself, why not join this SRGC trip to some of the country’s most biodiverse areas?  Turkey is a country of, it seems, almost endless variety in habitat and certainly an enormous range of plants, many endemic.  There are historical sites and wonderful birds to see as well, to name only a couple of "other" attractions!

We have been fortunate to see glimpses of this beautiful country through the pages of the Journal, from the International Rock Gardener and in this very Forum, where many of the plants have featured.....which will all have served to heighten enthusiasm to see these areas in real life. This tour presents a super opportunity to do just that.





More to follow!

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on October 02, 2011, 06:12:06 PM

 I repeat here the introductory piece to the tour from the recent Rock Garden Journal: attached as a pdf.

[attach=1]

 Margaret and David will be pleased to answer any questions you might have, either privately or by posting here.


 Email: craigurdAThotmail.com ( replacing the AT with @)

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on October 02, 2011, 06:17:30 PM

Further details of the Tour.....

SCOTTISH ROCK GARDEN CLUB
TURKISH MOUNTAINS TOUR 2012

Saturday 5th to 19th May 2012

Day 1   UK to Istanbul. o/n Istanbul
Day 2   Nezihat Gokyığıt Botanic Bahcesi & to Trabzon o/n Trabzon
Day 3   Zigana Pass o/n Bayburt
Day 4   Bayburt to Erzurum o/n Erzurum
Day 5   Palandoken Mountains o/n Erzurum
Day 6   Erzurum to Erzincan via Kop Pass o/n Ezincan
Day 7   Otlukbeli Mountains o/n Erzincan
Day 8   Erzincan to Kemaliye o/n Kemaliye
Day 9   Subatan Mountain o/n Kemaliye
Day 10   Kemaliye to Malatya o/n Malatya
Day 11   Doğanşehir Mountain o/n Malatya
Day 12   Kübbe Pass o/n Malatya
Day 13   Malatya to Karamanmaraş o/n Karamanmaraş
Day 14   Ahir Mountain o/n Karamanmaraş
Day 15   Return flights – Karamanmaraş to Istanbul & UK

Detailed Itinerary

Day 1      UK to Turkey

Upon arrival at Istanbul Ataturk airport we will transfer to a hotel in the Sultanahmet area of the city close to the famous Blue Mosque and take dinner nearby.

Day 2      Visit to Nezihat Gokyığıt Botanic Bahcesi & to Trabzon

In the morning we’ll transfer to the Nezihat Gokyığıt Botanic Bahcesi and be met by Prof Adil Guner and given a personal tour by him of the gardens.  Lunch will be in the garden allowing more time to look around in the afternoon before we drive to the airport for a late flight to Trabzon on the Black Sea coast in north-east Turkey where we’ll overnight. o/n Horon Hotel, Trabzon.

Day 3      Zigana & Kose Passes

After breakfast we drive south via Macka where there are good orchids such as Orchis stevenii and also Aristolochia pontica then up and over the 2600 metre Zigana Pass (snow permitting) with lots of Viola altaica, Gentiana verna subsp. pontica, hopefully still Cyclamen parviflorum, Trollius ranunculinus, Primula auriculata and Caltha polypetala.  Lower down the woods have Helleborus orientalis and Dactylorhiza flavescens.  We’ll descend and carry onto Gumushane and the Kose Pass for Tulipa armena, Muscari armeniacum, Thlaspi ochroleucum and possibly Fritillaria pinardii before arriving in Bayburt. o/n Abideş Hotel,  Bayburt (1 night)

 
Days 4 & 5   Erzurum area & Palandoken Mountains

From Bayburt we’ll drive east alongside the Coruh Nehri river before turning south for the Golyurt Pass and the Agziacik Pass and then down to Erzurum.  These are unknown passes for us so it will be an early chanced to explore and see what we find.  North of Erzurum the Coruh Valley runs for many miles around the town of Tortum there are many Iris taochia and other interesting steppe species such as Morina persica and Eremostachys laciniata.  There will be two nights in Erzurum a conservative eastern city.

There are other good passes in the Palandoken Mountains to the south with walking opportunities so we’ll have time here to find good populations of deep purple Iris reticulata, Scilla sibirica, Colchicum szovitsii close to the melting snow and masses of Primula elatior subsp. pallasii, Pulsatilla albana and Corydalis oppositifolia. o/n Palan Hotel, Erzurum (2 nights).  

Days 6 & 7   Erzincan area - Kop Pass & Kolcekmez Pass

On the way to Erzincan we’ll go via the Kop Pass, great for Crocus biflorus subsp. tauri (and if it’s an early year Fritillaria alburyana, but this really peaks in June).  On the way we will also see Tulipa armena and the amazing Tchihatchewia isatidea a localised endemic.  

The Erzincan area is comprised of mainly volcanic ash substrates of many colours and this encourages a great variety of other endemics such as Hesperis brachyscapa, Muscari massayanum and other great steppe plants such as Arnebia densiflora, Rindera lanata and Ricotia aucheri.  Kolcekmez Dag Pass to the north of the town is very good with higher limestone cliffs encrusted in Saxifraga kotschyi, alpine turf full of Pulsatilla albana, Crocus biflorus subsp. tauri, Aethionema spp and Draba bruniifolia.  Lower areas have hummocks of endemic Silene ruscifolia.  o/n Sembol Hotel, Ezincan (2 nights).

Days 8 & 9   Kemaliye - Subatan Mountain    

Kemaliye is perched above one branch of the immense lake formed behind the Keban Dam.  The journey the goes over the Sakultutan Pass with populations Muscari azureum, Muscari aucheri, Primula elatior and a few Fritillaria armena.  The rest of the journey is along a previously untraveled route through the northern Munzur Mountains where we’d hope to see Alkanna pseudotinctoria, Astragalus christianus and maybe Iris sari.  Erminium rauwolfii also occurs in this area.  Around Kemaliye are populations of Ophrys scolopax oestrifera and Dianthus orientalis and up on Subatan Mountain is colourful Onosma albo-roseum, wonderful drifts of Fritillaria armena, Muscari azureum, Ornithogalum oligophyllum and Hyacinthus orientalis.  Snow patches will have Eranthis cilicicus, Scilla sibirica and Colchicum szovtisii whilst Iris caucasica grows on the limestone rocks lower down.  There are good walking possibilities here. o/n Bozkurt Otel, Kemaliye (2 nights).

Days 10, 11 & 12   Malatya - Doğanşehir Mountain & Kübbe Pass

On the journey to Malatya are scrub oak woods with lots of Orchis punctulata and Cephalanthera kotschyana and a side road leads to a village where there are superb stands of Iris sari and a small population of Fritillaria imperialis (although this really is April flowering, but there may be a few for those who climb up), Astragalus christianus, Tulipa armena and Eremurus spectabilis.  

Around Malatya the Doğanşehir Mountains are superb with some great limestone and ideal for walking with crags full of stunning Fritillaria aurea, Erysimum thyrsoides, Solenanthus stamineus, unusual forms of Corydalis wendelboi, Scilla bifolia, Aubretia canescens, Anemone blanda, Myosotis alpestris and the amazing scarlet Phelypaea coccinea.  Lower down are populations of Orchis coriophora.  This is an area we haven’t fully explored and the higher areas beg a closer look.  

The Kübbe Pass has a new species of Bellevalia as yet unnamed and if we’re lucky a new juno iris (although these really peak a month earlier) as well as Lotus gebbelia.  Not so far away to the west is the low Karahan Pass with Asphodeline tenuior, Iberis attica, Moltkia caerulea and other steppic species. o/n Yeni Kent Otel, Malatya (3 nights).

Days 13 & 14   Karamanmaras & Ahır Dağı

Once again crossing the Karahan Pass (without stopping this time) we continue cross country before reaching  the excellent Püren Pass with many rocky valleys and slopes to explore and where there may be Fritillaria persica in flower growing on the coarse limestone screes.  Fritillaria hermonis occurs too higher up and may be in flower, but around late snow patches will again be Crocus biflorus tauri, Corydalis rutifolia and on the rocks in Scilla melaina.  Muscari anatolica occurs in small numbers.  

Ahır Dağı rises above the city and it is an excellent location for the wonderful Iris kirkwoodii.  To the west near Göksun is another pass where the woods should still have some Cyclamen pseudoibericum, Muscari armeniacum, Corydalis henrikii and probably Tulipa sylvestris.  Any high snows could have Fritillaria pinardii and both Fritllaria acmopetala and alfredae also occur in the oak woods on the way to and from along with Onosma albo-roseum and fantastic displays of Glaucium grandiflorum. o/n Saffron Hotel, Karamanmaraş (2 nights).

Day 15      Return to Scotland

Departure from Karamanmaraş for the flight to Istanbul and then onto London Heathrow.

 
Information

Price is          £1700 per person sharing
Single supplement is       £245 person
Deposit is          £300 per person
No flights are included in the price.

Focus
Flowers.

Leaders
Chris Gardner, Başak Gardner and Adil Güner.

Walking
Much of the tour is on roadside slopes, however during the day you might easily cover three or four miles, and on some days more. In some areas there will opportunity to walk more. Slopes are often quite steep and the ground rough underfoot.

Included in the price
All transport, meals and accommodation in Turkey. Services of your leaders. Please note: drinks, tips, and items of a personal nature including insurance, are not included.

Group Size
The minimum is 10 and the maximum is 20.

Accommodation
The hotels are listed in the itinerary. All these hotels are of a decent three star standard or better and all rooms on this tour have en suite facilities.

Climate
Generally warm and sunny. However cooler, rainy, weather is possible and at higher levels it can be quite chilly.

How to Book
Please fill in a Greentours Booking Form which you can download from www.greentours.co.uk or call Greentours on 01298 83563 and they’ll send you one. A detailed information pack will be dispatched twelve weeks prior to departure.

 
PLANT LIST

The list features the showiest species in particular bulbs and alpines.  There are of course many more taxa from other groups to be seen.
 

Adonis aestivalis
Aethionema caespitosum
Aethionema iberideum
Aethionema speciosum
Ajuga orientalis
Alkanna pseudotinctoria
Allium kharputense
Anchusa aucheri
Androsace villosa
Anemone blanda
Aquilegia olympica
Aristolochia bottae
Aristolochia maurorum
Aristolochia pontica
Arnebia densiflora
Arnebia pulchra
Arum conaphalloides
Asphodeline damascene
Asphodeline tenuior
Astragalus cephalotes
Astragalus christianus
Astragalus inserta
Astraglaus campylosemma
Aubretia canescens
(Bellevalia fominii)
Bellevalia pycnantha
Bellevalia sp (new sp Kubbe Pass)
Caltha polypetala
Campanula betulifolia
Cardamine uliginosa
Cenaurea virgata
Centranthus longifolia
Cephalanthera damasonium
Cephalanthera kotschyana
Cephalanthera longifolia
Cephalanthera rubra
Cerastium purpurascens
Cerasus hippophaeoides
Chesneya elegans
Cistus creitcus
Cistus salvifolius
Colchicum szovitzii
Consolida orientalis
Coronilla orientalis
Corydalis henrikii

Corydalis oppositifolia
Corydalis rutifolia
Corydalis wendelboi
Crocus biflorus tauri
Cyclamen parviflorum
Cyclamen psuedibericum
Dactylorhiza flavescens
Dactylorhiza osmanica
Dactylorhiza spp
Dactylorhiza urvilleana
Dactylrhoiza euxina
Dianthus orientalis
Draba bruniifolia
Draba polytricha
Epipactis veratrifolia
Eranthis cilicicus
Eremostachys laciniata
Eremostachys moluccelloides
Eremurus spectabilis
Erica arborea
(Erminium rauwolfii)
Erysimum thyrsoides
(Fritillaria alburyana)
Fritillaria armena
Fritillaria aurea
Fritillaria hermonis
Fritillaria imperialis
Fritillaria persica
Fritillaria pinardii
Gagea glacialis
Gentiana pyrenaica
Gentiana vernna subsp pontica
Geranium psilotstemon
Geropogon colorata
Gladiolus atroviolaceus
Gladiolus kotschyanus
Glaucium grandiflorum
Globularia trichosantha
Gundelia tournefortii
Helleborus orientalis
Hesperis breviscapa
Hesperis campicarpa
Hesperis cappadocica
Hesperis persica
Hyacinthus orientalis
Hypercoum pseudograndiflorum
Hypericum scabrum
Iberis attica
Iris caucasica
Iris kirkwoodii
Iris reticulata
Iris sari
(Iris sp - new sp Kubbe Pass)
Iris taochia
Isatis cappadocica
Lamium garganica
Legousia speculum-veneris
Linaria corifolia
Linum mucronatum
Linum tenuifolium
Listera ovata
Lotus gebelia
Matthiola longipetala
Micromeria elliptica
Moltkia caerulea
Morina persica
Muscari armeniaca
Muscari aucheri
Muscari azureum
Muscari caucasica
Muscari coeleste
Muscari comosum
Muscari massayanum
Myosotis alpestris
Neottia nidus-avis
Onobrychis argyrea
Onobrychis huetiana
Onosma albo-rosea
Onosma aucherianum
Onosma molle
Ophrys scolopax oestrifera
Orchis anatolica
Orchis collina
Orchis coriophora
Orchis provincialis
Orchis punctulata
Orchis satyroides
Orchis simia
Orchis spp
Orchis stevenii
Ornithogalum narbonense
Ornithogalum oliogophyllum
Ornithogalum umbellatum
(Paeonia mascula)
Papaver lateritum
Papaver rhoeas
Pedicualaris comosum
Pelargonium endlicherianum
Phelypaea coccinea/tournefortii
Primula algida
Primula auriculata
Primula elatior subsp pallasii
Primula veris
Pulsatilla albana
Ranunculus aucheri
Ranunculus kochii
Rhododendron luteum
Rhododendron ponticum
Rhynchocrys striata
Ricotia aucheri
Rindera lanata
Roemeria hybrida
Salvia bracteata
Salvia frigida
Salvia multicaulis
Salvia suffruticosa
Saxifraga cymbalaria
Saxifraga kotschyi
Scilla bifolia
Scilla melaina
Scilla sibirica
Scilla armena
Scutellaria oreintalis
Silene ruscifolia
Solenanthus stamineus
Steveniella satyroides
Stipa Arabica
Tchihatchewia isatidea
Thlaspi ochroleucum
Trollius ranunculinus
Tulipa armena
Tulipa sintinesii
Veronica caespitose
Veronica macrostachya subsp mardinensis
Veronica orientalis
Vicia noeana
Vincetoxicum canescens
Vincetoxicum fallosum
Viola altaica
Weidermannia orientalis

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on October 02, 2011, 06:35:49 PM

Başak is a renowned botanical artist and her Father, Professor Adil Güner (our Speaker at the  Late Bulb Day 2010) is the head of the Nezihat Gokyığıt Botanical Garden  (with its extraordinary bulb collection in the centre of the motorway system !)

Sandy's report on the event  http://www.srgc.org.uk/shows/latebulb/2010.pdf

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on October 02, 2011, 06:44:33 PM

[attach=1]
  Arnebia densiflora

Here is the Thornes' introductory letter for those interested in this exciting trip..........


To all members interested in the SRGC TURKISH MOUNTAINS TOUR 2012
Here are the full details of the Scottish Rock Garden Club’s visit to eastern Turkey from Saturday 5th May – Saturday 19th May 2012. We have planned the route to include many exciting mountainous areas where we are confident of finding a whole host of interesting plants, an indicative list of which is included as part of the information.
The Tour is being organised through Greentours, so the money you pay for the trip is fully protected by their ATOL licence. We and many of our friends have travelled with this company and we highly recommend them. You must also have your own travel insurance: either the policy offered by Greentours, or one offering at least as much cover which you have organised yourself.
The price of the trip is £1700 per person sharing which does not include any flights. In addition to your international flight to and from Istanbul, internal flights will cost approximately £200.
Once 10 members have paid their deposit to Greentours, they will be notified, and flights will be arranged to suit their particular requirements. Alternatively, participants may wish to arrange their own flights, but this should not be done until they have received confirmation that the minimum number of bookings has been received. Flight prices tend to increase, so the sooner you book your place on this trip, the lower the total cost of the flights is likely to be.
For SRGC members travelling from Scotland, there is a number of flight options which fit the itinerary. For example, travelling by British Airways from Glasgow to Istanbul return (via Heathrow) currently costs £327. We can recommend the Normandy Hotel in Glasgow which offers 1 night’s accommodation for 2 people, secure parking and airport transfers for £60, and would suggest this as a good place to start the trip.
Alternatively there are KLM flights from Edinburgh to Istanbul (outward via Amsterdam and return via Paris) for a similar price. London to Istanbul return by Turkish Airlines is currently £277.
Although we suggested in ‘The Rock Garden’ advertisement that participants must be fit and energetic to benefit fully from the trip, members who feel they might not fall into this category are also welcome. We will be able split into groups according to ability and provided everybody is realistic about their level of fitness, we will all have a great time and see a lot of very good plants.
We hope you will join us on this exciting new SRGC venture. Please send your bookings to Greentours, but do not hesitate to contact us, or them, if you have any queries.

With best wishes, David and Margaret

[attach=2]
 Muscari azureum close up

[attach=3]
 Muscari azureum

[attach=4]
  Onosma albo-roseum

[attach=5]
 
 Tchihatchewia isatidea

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on October 02, 2011, 06:53:00 PM

I know Margaret and David would be  pleased to answer any queries here, or you can contact them, or GreenTours, direct.

It would be super to have any remarks and photographs from Forumists familiar with the area posted here as well....... 8)

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Hoy on October 11, 2011, 08:46:04 PM

I would love to go! However I can't take a long holiday at that time of the year :'(

I visited Eastern Turkey in July a couple of years ago (Van - Iran border area) and had a fabulous time. A lot of interesting plants although the bulbs had finished at that time.
The people we met was very friendly and helpfull.

We visited some elevated places where the plants still were in full bloom. Here are a few:

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Arda Takan on November 06, 2011, 07:52:49 AM

That's the trip of my dreams! but it is very expensive =(

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: jomowi on November 06, 2011, 05:13:49 PM

I would love to go, but don't know if I can face up to the length of the flying time or organising my own flights.  Can thoroughly recommend Chris Gardner as a leader. Brian & I went on a few Greentours holidays where Chris was the leader.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: PeterT on November 11, 2011, 08:20:41 PM

Quote from: Arda Takan on November 06, 2011, 07:52:49 AM

That's the trip of my dreams! but it is very expensive =(

I wasn't sure where to put this so I have put it here.
I remember a lecture at the International Rock Garden Conference  earlier this year in Nottingham, by somebody who is involved in a project to start the local cultivation and  growing within Turkey, of Turkish bulbs for export. I have mislaid the relevant AGS bulletin, hence this post. I think the project might interest Arda, if anyone could furnish more details

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on November 11, 2011, 09:58:14 PM

Quote from: PeterT on November 11, 2011, 08:20:41 PM

Quote from: Arda Takan on November 06, 2011, 07:52:49 AM

That's the trip of my dreams! but it is very expensive =(

I wasn't sure where to put this so I have put it here.
I remember a lecture at the International Rock Garden Conference  earlier this year in Nottingham, by somebody who is involved in a project to start the local cultivation and  growing within Turkey, of Turkish bulbs for export. I have mislaid the relevant AGS bulletin, hence this post. I think the project might interest Arda, if anyone could furnish more details

Peter, I think that must have been in Michael Kammerlander's talk 'Iris Addiction' or else Brian Mathew's on 'Frontiersmen of the Past'.
I will check to see if I can find the reference you mean.....


 later edit: cannot find anything so far, neither can Ian recall anything of that offhand....  perhaps someone else has better recall and will know where to look?

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: PeterT on November 12, 2011, 07:39:45 AM

Thanks Maggie, It was not in Michael Ks juno talk or Brians talk on plantsmen, nor was it John Grimshaw.
I think it was someone who had just flown in from Turkey.
The speaker was very active in the project within Turkey. I tried a google search just now and came up with this:
http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/~spgp/Fall%202002/Indigenous%20propagation%20project%20of%20threatened%20Turkish%20bulbs-overview.pdf
I'm pretty sure this is the right project.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Margaret Thorne on November 27, 2011, 02:35:54 PM

Quote from: Maureen Wilson on November 06, 2011, 05:13:49 PM

I would love to go, but don't know if I can face up to the length of the flying time or organising my own flights.  Can thoroughly recommend Chris Gardner as a leader. Brian & I went on a few Greentours holidays where Chris was the leader.

You don't have to organise your own flights, Maureen, Greentours will do that for you. On the outward journey we have an overnight in Istanbul which breaks up the flights, but not on the way home.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Kees Jan on November 29, 2011, 09:46:46 PM

It looks like a great trip!

I visited the NE a couple of years ago in spring and returned to the east this autumn. Perhaps this is the place to share a rather sad story about habitat destruction. During my spring trip the highlight was perhaps a Saxifraga kotschyi population in full flower on a fantastic limestone outcrop just north of Kop Dag Pass... We spend hours there photograping all sorts of plants on the ridge, and fantastic fritillaries in a nearby scree, like the fritillary shown below, I suppose crasifolia ssp. crassifolia.

Imagine the shock returning there about 8 weeks ago finding no sign of this fantastic limestone rock outcrop whatsoever. Kop Dag Pass has been made a lot wider, a road the size of a runway for large passenger planes... In the process the complete limestone ridge MUST have been used for building material :-\ :'( :-\... All gone, including many saxifrages and other exciting plants. No sign of it whatsoever.... We even went back to check once again. Gone :o ::) :'(. I repeat, the complete outcrop, clearly visible on the right in the first picture is GONE!!! I will post some pics here..., as a tribute to what used to be a really fantastic location.

There is a lot of (road) building going on in eastern Turkey, Kop Dag Pass is not an exception. Don't be put off going there ofcourse, it's still fantastic, but it must be said there is much destruction going on. We did find S. kotschyi elsewhere in the Kopdag area, but not nearly in such a nice location. Another, and much worse example of destruction is de Coruh valley, one of the biodiversity hotspots of Turkey, where a cascade of 13 hydro electric reservoirs is being constructed....... ::) :-\ :'( Turkey has a policy of becoming less dependant on oil, but at least some of the hydro electric projects that are carried out are very controversial, not just because of damage to nature, sometimes whole communities are forced to move :( >:(.

Don't be put off to join this trip though, there are vast quantities of splendid nature to enjoy in this part of Turkey. My pics from the spring trip to the NE can be found in the following gallery on my website http://keesjan.smugmug.com/Botanical-trips/Asia/Northeastern-Turkey-May/

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Margaret Thorne on December 05, 2011, 12:41:47 PM

The vast majority of the Turkey is incredibly beautiful and ecologically rich, though as Kees found, in such a rapidly developing country there is always the danger of habitat loss even in relatively remote places.
This makes it all the more important for as many people as possible to visit Turkey (and other countries in a similar position) to study, photograph, document and enjoy what is there, and to share it with others through the Forum. Spring and autumn visits are particularly welcomed by local businesses as they extend the visitor season beyond the popular summer months, and consequently provide additional employment and an economic argument for conserving the natural environment.
There are still places left on this trip, so please fill in your Booking Form quickly if you do would like to join us.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: listera on December 06, 2011, 06:36:55 PM

Kees are you talking about the rocks that hosted B.rixii :o

I want to believe that there are other places supporting other populations...

Quote from: Kees Jan on November 29, 2011, 09:46:46 PM

It looks like a great trip!

I visited the NE a couple of years ago in spring and returned to the east this autumn. Perhaps this is the place to share a rather sad story about habitat destruction. During my spring trip the highlight was perhaps a Saxifraga kotschyi population in full flower on a fantastic limestone outcrop just north of Kop Dag Pass... We spend hours there photograping all sorts of plants on the ridge, and fantastic fritillaries in a nearby scree, like the fritillary shown below, I suppose crasifolia ssp. crassifolia.

Imagine the shock returning there about 8 weeks ago finding no sign of this fantastic limestone rock outcrop whatsoever. Kop Dag Pass has been made a lot wider, a road the size of a runway for large passenger planes... In the process the complete limestone ridge MUST have been used for building material :-\ :'( :-\... All gone, including many saxifrages and other exciting plants. No sign of it whatsoever.... We even went back to check once again. Gone :o ::) :'(. I repeat, the complete outcrop, clearly visible on the right in the first picture is GONE!!! I will post some pics here..., as a tribute to what used to be a really fantastic location.

There is a lot of (road) building going on in eastern Turkey, Kop Dag Pass is not an exception. Don't be put off going there ofcourse, it's still fantastic, but it must be said there is much destruction going on. We did find S. kotschyi elsewhere in the Kopdag area, but not nearly in such a nice location. Another, and much worse example of destruction is de Coruh valley, one of the biodiversity hotspots of Turkey, where a cascade of 13 hydro electric reservoirs is being constructed....... ::) :-\ :'( Turkey has a policy of becoming less dependant on oil, but at least some of the hydro electric projects that are carried out are very controversial, not just because of damage to nature, sometimes whole communities are forced to move :( >:(.

Don't be put off to join this trip though, there are vast quantities of splendid nature to enjoy in this part of Turkey. My pics from the spring trip to the NE can be found in the following gallery on my website http://keesjan.smugmug.com/Botanical-trips/Asia/Northeastern-Turkey-May/

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on December 06, 2011, 06:45:49 PM

Quote from: listera on December 06, 2011, 06:36:55 PM

Kees are you talking about the rocks that hosted B.rixii :o

I want to believe that there are other places supporting other populations...

Do you refer to Bellevalia rixii ?


http://www.vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/li/be/ri/index.htm

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Kees Jan on December 06, 2011, 08:09:52 PM

No, I think Bellevalia rixii is still safely growing on a scree near Kop Dag Pass :). I found it well away from the road, perhaps 2 km. Only few plants on a steep scree when I was there!!!

I think the main victim of the 'upgraded' road is a Saxifraga kotschyi population, although this species is found at some other locations a bit lower down on the Bayburt side of the pass. There are not very many limestone cliffs around Kop Dag, but there are VAST QUANTITIES of limestone scree. Sax. kotschyi seems to be restricted to rock faces though (not in scree), away from too much sun.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: listera on December 06, 2011, 08:54:21 PM

at last pain relieving news  :-\

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on December 14, 2011, 11:31:59 AM

Friends, there are still some places available on this tour : I think it would be advsiable to make your booking sooner  rather than later!

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Arda Takan on December 14, 2011, 03:10:54 PM

=(

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 20, 2012, 10:30:30 PM

Just returned from this fantastically floriferous foray across eastern Turkey. I am exhilerated and exhausted but as I have been downloading my images I thought I'd give you a taste of the trip. The journey took us from the wet forested area around Trabzon on the Black Sea coast, south to Erzurum and Erzincan, through steppe country to Malatya, finally ending in Kahramanmaras. This took us through a real mixture of geology and hence varied scenery. The mountain views were incredible and the plants  never failed us!

Meadows of Muscari aucheri and Bellavalia paradoxa
Springs with Primula elatior
Fritillaria alburyana
Iris reticulata (there are many irises to come.........)

I must say a big thank you to Chris Gardner who led us to the plants, ably abetted during the first part of the trip by Adil Guner and during the second part by Mehmet Koyuncu; also to Margaret and David Thorne, whose idea this trip was.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on May 20, 2012, 10:35:01 PM

Welcome home, David!
Four photos and I can already tell it was a good trip. Looking forward to seeing and learning more when you have the time.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 20, 2012, 10:35:56 PM

Just a few more pics.....

Rindera lanata
Hyacinthus orientalis ssp chionophylla
Onosma albo-rosea
Aubrieta canescens

There'll be more in a few days - off now to get some shut-eye before an early start for Chelsea tomorrow  ;D ;D

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: fermi de Sousa on May 21, 2012, 05:15:17 AM

Quote from: DaveM on May 20, 2012, 10:30:30 PM

.... as I have been downloading my images I thought I'd give you a taste of the trip.
....
....
...Iris reticulata (there are many irises to come.........)

Goodness!  :o perhaps I'm underwatering mine when they are in bloom! ::)
 ;D
Great pics, Dave,
cheers
fermi

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Brian Ellis on May 21, 2012, 09:28:42 AM

Lovely pictures so far David, looking forward to more on your return from Chelsea, thanks :)

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Claire Cockcroft on May 24, 2012, 04:25:35 PM

Great pictures, Dave.  Here are a few pictures showing the variation in Iris sari that we found in many more locations than expected.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 24, 2012, 08:42:42 PM

What a fabulous Iris that is. Hi Claire, glad to see that you got back OK and no horror stories on way back??

I'm still working through my photos. First a few pics of the people - I don't have many and am hoping that others will post some too.

Our leader, photographing Arum conaphalloides var. cordatum in the Subatan Mountains (above Kamaliye.

Adil Guner, among Muscari aucheri and Bellevalia paradoxa

The infamous Green Tours picnic - the gentleman on the left is Mehmet Koyancu from Ankara University and Allium expert who accompanied us during the second part of the tour.

Another picnic

A thorne among the Hellebores and cowslips (Margaret), Zigana pass

Ben Wilson genuflecting before a fine patch of Primula auriculata

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 24, 2012, 10:08:48 PM

We arrived late in the evening in Istanbul - a late meal and a night view of the Blue Mosque. We spent the next day at the Nezihat Gokyigit Botanic Bahcesi, a private garden and collection that is a new venture for Turkey and directed by Adil Guner. Built within the confines of an urban motorway intersection, this garden has rapidly become a veritable oasis in the middle of skyscaper-land. Though it is conceived as a Botanic garden and living collection, to most inhabitants of Istanbul it is seen as a desirable picnic place or a location in which to have your wedding photographs taken. So... no real difference from Kew or Edinburgh then?? Nevertheless the development is rapidly taking place both within the garden itself and the encroachment of the skyscrapers. Amazing place but difficult to get to!!

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 24, 2012, 10:15:55 PM

The garden features many of the plants of Turkey, attempting to replicate the many different habitats. There is also a developing collection of the bulbs. Some parts of the garden have been left for the native plants of the Istanbul area. But as you might expect from Adil's interest in Iris, the garden features many. Just a couple here - we will see more later in their natural habitats.

Unnamed iris
Iris schachtii
Iris sprengeri

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 24, 2012, 11:42:38 PM

Later that day we flew to Trabzon and the next day headed south into the mountains. The first pass - the Zigana at c. 2600 m brought a very familiar array of plants. Snow had almost melted from the turf slopes and literally thousands of Primula vulgaris were unveiled, including the occasional white form.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 24, 2012, 11:48:28 PM

Zigana Pass continued.

Primula veris
Viola altaica, both yellow and blue/purple forms
Cyclamen parviflorum - a somewhat uninspiring specie of this wonderful genus. Quite interesting to see how different is its habitat compared with many of the other species - it is truly an alpine turf plant, unlike most others
Daphne glomerata

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 24, 2012, 11:51:09 PM

Zigana Pass, continued

Gentiana verna ssp pontica

Pale form

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: fermi de Sousa on May 25, 2012, 12:30:33 AM

Quote from: DaveM on May 24, 2012, 10:15:55 PM

.... as you might expect from Adil's interest in Iris, the garden features many. Just a couple here - we will see more later in their natural habitats.

Unnamed iris
Iris schachtii
Iris sprengeri

Dave,
more wonderful pics and that unnamed iris is intriguing with its combination of colours! :o
Is it some sort of I.xiphium?
cheers
fermi

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Claire Cockcroft on May 25, 2012, 05:40:05 PM

Dave M staring down a field of Helleborus orientalis near Gumushane.

(No suitcase lost but a missed connection in Vancouver -- no surprise, given my luck on this trip. ;))

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 25, 2012, 09:11:22 PM

Thank you Claire. So not too bad then  ;D ;D

Fermi - I don't know about the Iris. I don't recall seeing a label and I certainly have no note as to what it is. It does look a bit like a xiphium hybrid. Sorry. As for the copious water in which the Iris reticulata is growing, I think you'll find a recurring theme as I recount more....... :D

Anyway, continuing with the Zigana Pass. In pine woodland on the south side glades were full  Helleborus orientalis, Primula veris, Anemone blanda, Cyclamen coum and the orchids Dactylorhiza romana (both white and red forms) and Orchis pallens.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 25, 2012, 09:17:35 PM

Crossing the Kose Pass on the way to Kayburt we saw our first tulip, Tulipa armena. Sadly the sun had deserted us and the tulips remained resolutely shut :(
Growing in rock crevices was Sempervivum armenum and scattered around was a frit, probably Fritillaria pinardii.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 25, 2012, 09:29:51 PM

The next day we headed to the Kop Dag. On the way up a damp area between converging streams was host to Caltha polypetala, Primula elatior, P. auriculata and the striking Corydalis oppositifolia. We were to see this last species on many subsequent occasions.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 25, 2012, 09:36:33 PM

A large part of the area around the Kop Pass is underlain by serpentinite. Here was host to populations of Crocus biflorus ssp. tauri and Colchicum szovitsii. Amongst these the "furry" flower buds of the beautiful dark blue form of Pulsatilla albana were just beginning to unfurl - we were to see this in full flower elsewhere later.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 25, 2012, 09:50:54 PM

A little further on from the crocus. again on serpentinite, we seached, unsuccessfully at first, for that most regal of fritillaries, F alburyana. Eventually finding it in some numbers, it clearly prefers stony yet moisture retentive sites. In some parts many of the flowers had been chewed. Though the flower colour seemed fairly constant there was variation in the shape of the flower from strongly campanulate to shallow and open. This was the first of two sites for this fritillaria.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Armin on May 25, 2012, 10:14:02 PM

Dave and Claire,
a real delight to follow your report with marvelous images.
Thanks for posting. More please ;)

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 26, 2012, 05:45:56 PM

A pleasure Armin.

A little out of Erzurum on the road to Cat were meadows with an incredible blue haze - literally thousands of pale blue Bellevalia forniculata. Not an inspiring species on its own, but in such numbers it was quite a sight. The meadow was 2 to 3 cm deep in water - a huge surprise but this is clearly what they need at this time of the year.

To the edge, alongside a small stream were more Caltha polypetala and Primula auriculata. At the base of a slope at the edge of the meadow was the remains of a snow bank. In the very damp 3-4 m wide zone adjacent to the melting edge of the snow grow Colchicum szovitsii, Iris reticulata and Scilla. Any Iris growing outside of this narrow band had already finished flowering. The iris is clearly exploiting the abundant supply of water as the snow melts in order to get its job done.

After plodging back through the water meadow a dry bank contained our first sighting of Iris caucasica. This is a common species in the area over a range of altitude.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 26, 2012, 06:21:43 PM

Another meadow in the same region had a different blue haze. Though the meadow was still damp it wasn't quite so wet as the last. A carpet with a lovely mix of the paler Muscari aucheri and the darker Bellevalia paradoxa.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 26, 2012, 06:28:50 PM

Just to the south of Erzurum lie the Palandoken mountains, where were the site of the 2011 student winter games. An area so well worth exploring.
On the ski slopes just above the hotels we found:
Scilla siberica ssp. armena
Pulsatilla albana

A little higher where snow was still in small banks:
Androsace intermedia
Thlaspi sintenisii

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 26, 2012, 10:27:15 PM

The high pass over the Palandoken mountains contains a wonderfully rich flora. Here the bedrock is a mixture of mafic (basalt and gabbro) and ultramafic (serpentinite) rocks.

Gentiana verna ssp pontica
Primula auriculata
Fritillaria armena - by one boulder there was a pile of the bulbs on the surface, just beginning to flower - must have been the food store of a rodent.
Fritillaria caucasica
Ranunculus kochii

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 26, 2012, 10:35:02 PM

More variation:

Draba bruniifolia
Potentilla geranioides
Tulipa armena
Iris reticulata
Iris caucasica
Colchicum szovitsii

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 26, 2012, 10:40:29 PM

And yet more Fritillaria alburyana

.......including a single white specimen

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: tonyg on May 26, 2012, 11:02:18 PM

Fantastic report, marvellous pictures as always.  In another life I will be there too!

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Armin on May 27, 2012, 09:34:29 PM

Marvelous, Dave.

Which temperatures did you have on the mountains?

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 31, 2012, 09:29:49 PM

Thanks Armin and Tony. Temperatures weren't too bad; I didn't have a thermometer but I guess 15 C or so in sunshine above 2100 m; much warmer in the valleys and in Erzincan. Very pleasant walking around most of the time. Distinctly warmer as we went south-west towards Karramanmaras.

The lower areas from Erzincan southward to Malatya is steppe country. Some typical plants were:

Glaucium grandiflorum
Tchihatchewia isatidea
Arnebia densiflora
Globularia trichosantha - though we did also find this also at higher altitudes in alpine tundra.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 31, 2012, 09:33:51 PM

A few more from the steppe.

Rindera lanata
Hesperis breviscapa
Stachys lavandulifolia
Iberis attica
Astragalus chistianus

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 31, 2012, 09:43:39 PM

Out of Erzincan is the limestone massif that is accessed by the Sipikor Pass. A long slog up steep grassy banks studded in places with some fine specimens of Pulsatilla albana led to some limestone cliffs with some large cusshions of Saxifraga kotschyi.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 31, 2012, 10:21:44 PM

Some bulbs from the steppe area between Erzincan and Malatya.

Muscari massayanum
Tulipa julia red and yellow forms
Gladiolus atroviolaceus
Orchis punctulata
Muscari azureum - but this only in wet areas on the Sakultutan Pass.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on May 31, 2012, 10:29:40 PM

And my final offering for tonight - the fabulous Iris sari. We saw this in a number of localities, from grassy roadside banks to limestone outcrops. Lovely variation in colours.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 01, 2012, 10:35:26 PM

A few more steppe plants

Aristolochia maurorum
Scutellaria orientalis
Eminium rauwolffii
Scutellaria salvifolius

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 01, 2012, 10:46:30 PM

The small town of Kamaliye is perched above one of the feeder rivers to the immense lake formed by the Keban Dam. The town is like few others I've seen in Turkey with its wooden houses and attracts mostly Turkish holiday makers - so the narrow mountain roads are a nightmare with huge coaches trundling along them. Above the town are the Subatan Mountains, a huge limestone massif.

Iris mesopotamica (=germanica?) in graveyard in Kamaliye

The rocky plateau on the top of the massif was host to tulips and Iris sari and Iris caucasica

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 01, 2012, 10:57:40 PM

The last of the melting snow banks provided abundant moisture for some bulbs. For a narrow zone of 3 to 5 metres from the edge of the melting snow where this overlies terra rossa, are species like Eranthis hyemalis and Iris reticulata. The lack of chlorophyll in some of the leaves testifies to the early rapid growth of many of these beneath the snow and subsequent exposure within the previous few days.

Just to the flanks of the snow banks in rocky places with abundant Hyancinthus orientalis ssp chionophyllus. This is a glorious plant and there were many tens of thousands.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:06:47 PM

The Doga mountains lie a few tens of kilometres to the south-west of Malatya. These are once again limestone mountains and are host to many bonny plants. Just a small selection...

Lamium garganicum ssp. nepetifolium
Anemone blanda, including a solitary double
Corydalis wendleboi

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:11:51 PM

and some more

Aubrieta canescens studding rock crevices
Fritillaria aurea - those we saw were much more robust than many that we see in cultivation.
Phelypaea coccinea - yes it really is that colour! It is parasitic, typically on Artemisia which can be seen to the left.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:19:50 PM

The Kubbe Pass lies to the east of Malatya. Here the substrate is basalt and serpentinite. The hill is studded with abundant Iris peshmeniana, a newly named juno species (Gerhard Pils shows this plant as Iris persica - which it most definitely isn't. We were really lucky to see this as it normally flowers in April - and there were abundant plants in seed, However, one enterprising member of the party headed for the hilltop and just below on the other side were only about five plants  still in flower. So lucky us!!

With the Iris is an interesting Bellevalia, name at present unknown.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:27:18 PM

From Malatya we drove west to Goksun and beyond in search of Muscari mcbeathianum. Several of us had seen and admired this species on the show bench. I understand that it is only known from one locality  in pine woodland - a lovely setting in which it occupies damp hollows. Sadly in the wild it turned out to be somewhat underwhelming (sorry Ron   :( :( ). The bicolour form is quite nice though.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:35:23 PM

The road from Goksun to Kahramanmaras and the end of our journey takes you over the Puren Pass, a massif limestone mountain. Here among the rocky cliffs are steep grassy slopes studded with Cedrus atlanticus. Among the rocks are some wonderful alpine species:

Some very large plants of Onosma alborosea
Fritillaria hermonis
and the black form of Fritillaria persica (the town of Adiyaman which gives its name to this form in cultivation is not too far away to the east. This is a much superior form to the pale colours I've previously seen in Iran.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:42:29 PM

Well, having arrived in Kahramanmaras we had one last call to make and what a visit it turned out to be. The limestone hills of the Ahir Dagi tower over the city, the pine forests of the lower slopes are littered with picnic spots for the citizens and the mountain is gradually being built over. Old cultivated terraces on the uppermost slopes are home to the fabulous onchocyclus iris Iris kirkwoodii. What a sight!! You can judge for yourselves...... 8) 8)

Edit : to show kirkwoodii  is  listed as   Iris kirkwoodiae Chaudhary

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:49:33 PM

and a final few......

In two weeks we had driven from the shores of the Black Sea in the north through the forests of northern Turkey and the steppe of the central part of Anatolia, almost to the Mediterranean. We saw the most amazing variety of plants - almost everything we expected to see - and some more. For example, we were lucky to see Iris peshmeniana as it is April flowering, but also, Frit alburyana because that is usually June flowering. We were definitely the winners. Well that's the end of my selection - maybe some of my fellow travellers will post some of their own....

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on June 02, 2012, 10:53:26 PM

David,  I have little doubt that others are viewing this report from you with the same delight as I feel.
The numbers viewing these pages already support that view! 
So many majestic plants that are truly a joy to behold.... even at secondhand!
The equivalent number of readers to the audience in dozensof talks....this is really spreading the word- thank you!

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: ashley on June 03, 2012, 09:53:29 AM

What a pleasure to see these wonderful plants in the wild, and their growing conditions.  It must have been a great trip.
Many thanks for sharing it with us Dave.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: ronm on June 03, 2012, 09:57:53 AM

Wonderful report Dave. Thank you.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Gerry Webster on June 03, 2012, 12:21:31 PM

Quote from: DaveM on June 02, 2012, 10:11:51 PM

and some more

Aubrieta canescens studding rock crevices
Fritillaria aurea - those we saw were much more robust than many that we see in cultivation.
Phelypaea coccinea - yes it really is that colour! It is parasitic, typically on Artemisia which can be seen to the left.

Dave -  Many thanks for a fascinating account with wonderful pictures.
The large form of F. aurea is (or was) in cultivation; it was collected several years ago by Vic Horton & Norman Stevens near Malatya (as HS2354).

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 03, 2012, 12:45:01 PM

Gerry, excellent news and thank you. This large form of Fritillaria aurea was quite stunning and deserves to be wider grown and better known.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Gerry Webster on June 03, 2012, 02:08:59 PM

Quote from: DaveM on June 03, 2012, 12:45:01 PM

Gerry, excellent news and thank you. This large form of Fritillaria aurea was quite stunning and deserves to be wider grown and better known.

Perhaps it's not widely grown because, as Norman states (his 1988 list), it is not as easy to grow as the common form.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Lvandelft on June 03, 2012, 10:31:26 PM

Great and wonderful report Dave! Thanks so much for showing these wonderful pictures!

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: ronm on June 03, 2012, 10:36:57 PM

Quote from: Gerry Webster on June 03, 2012, 02:08:59 PM

Perhaps it's not widely grown because, as Norman states (his 1988 list), it is not as easy to grow as the common form.

Is anyone able to trace their stock back a quarter of a century to this reference? It would be wonderful to know that such a lovely plant was still around. It must have been collected since? ( I hope only as seed though,  8)  ).

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Gerry Webster on June 04, 2012, 12:28:22 AM

It is possible that the large form of F. aurea was not widely distributed. Between 1987 & 1998 Norman only listed it three times: 1988, 1991 & 1992, each time remarking that it was difficult to grow. Over the same  period the front cover of his catalogue was adorned with a beautiful drawing of the form by Joanna Langhorne.
There is a photo  of the plant taken on Narhak Dag, Malatya by Norman in Fritillaria 16 (Spring, 2005)

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: ronm on June 04, 2012, 08:59:12 AM

Quote from: Gerry Webster on June 04, 2012, 12:28:22 AM

There is a photo  of the plant taken on Narhak Dag, Malatya by Norman in Fritillaria 16 (Spring, 2005)

Thanks for pointing this out Gerry. Just had another look, and took  the opportunity to read again the small written piece "Fritillaries in Turkey" that accompanied it. Always worth swatting up,  :)

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Gerry Webster on June 04, 2012, 10:01:11 AM

More on the large form of F. aurea. Seed derived from Norman's collection & a collection  by W.M.M Baron (2108) was listed by Jim Archibald in 1997, 2006 & 2007 under 491.805 It also appears in the posthumous list produced by Jenny in 2011. So, perhaps it achieved a wider distribution than I initially thought. Let's hope so.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on June 04, 2012, 11:29:37 AM

I think that Ron McBeath used to sell that form of Frit. aurea, too. I have a recollection of Jack Brownless "beating" me to the purchase of a pot at a Stirling show. :)
Now Norman Stevens gave the Stirling Show lecture one year, but I can't remember if he had plants for sale then and I'm confusing two incidents ...... can't even remember off hand what decade this was.  :-[ Will try to track it down!

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Tony Willis on June 04, 2012, 08:18:18 PM

Dave

I have waited until now to see all the pictures and it has been a fabulous report of a very successful trip.

thanks for showing the pictures it has been tremendous.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Arda Takan on June 07, 2012, 09:24:53 PM

Great trip and great photos. I hope I can see these plants with my own eyes one day.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: DaveM on June 09, 2012, 05:29:29 PM

Thank you all for your comments.

Arda - you really must go and see some of the very lovely flower vistas in your country - truly magical. I do hope you will manage to go one day......  ;D

Oron has posted some images of a lovely dark form of Onobrychis cornuta from the Israel - Syria border area. http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9179.msg249023#msg249023 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9179.msg249023#msg249023)

This species also occurs in Turkey and for comparison below are some pics of it from the Subatan Mountains, above Kamaliye.


edit by maggi to add link

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Arda Takan on June 28, 2012, 01:52:51 PM

Actually if trip were cheaper I could attend but it was way too expensive.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Margaret Thorne on February 06, 2013, 07:20:58 PM

Could any of these be anything other than Crocus biflorus subsp. tauri?
They were all photographed on 8th May 2012 during the SRGC trip to Turkey at Kop Pass between Bayburt and Erzurum. They seem more variable than ones we saw elsewhere on the trip and one of them is very dark on the tube and base of the flowers which does not fit the description for Crocus biflorus subsp. tauri.
Is it possible that this one could be Crocus aerius or something else?

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Margaret Thorne on February 08, 2013, 11:15:12 AM

These are the photographs of the crocuses we found further south in Turkey, on Subatan Mountain near Kemaliye and in the Doğanşehir Mountains near Malatya. They meet the descriptions of Crocus biflorus subsp tauri given on the herbarium specimens for which Ibrahim very helpfully provided the link in 2011 (Re: Late crocuses from Turkey, June 27), and in Brian Matthew’s book.
The latter says ‘C. biflorus subsp  tauri, like subsp pulchricolor, also has blue flowers lacking the very conspicuous dark veining which is such a prominent feature of C. aerius…..’.
This seems to point to some of the Kop Pass plants being something other than C. biflorus subsp tauri or has this subspecies subsequently been found to be more variable than originally described?
Unfortunately, I cannot see any basal rings on the bulb tunic, which is even more confusing. Can anyone help, please?

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 09, 2013, 05:44:45 AM

Quote from: Margaret Thorne on February 08, 2013, 11:15:12 AM

These are the photographs of the crocuses we found further south in Turkey, on Subatan Mountain near Kemaliye and in the Doğanşehir Mountains near Malatya.

Crocus yakarianus!

Description is something strange and features used to separate .... so-so. But I collected it, too and at that time nick-named "caelestis aff." although it is growing very far from caelestis localities. I think I wrote about this one on forum. Now it is named by Turkish botanists. In any case it is different from taurii and name regardless of something ...... description, must be accepted.
Janis

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 09, 2013, 05:54:57 AM

Quote from: Margaret Thorne on February 06, 2013, 07:20:58 PM

Could any of these be anything other than Crocus biflorus subsp. tauri?
They were all photographed on 8th May 2012 during the SRGC trip to Turkey at Kop Pass between Bayburt and Erzurum. They seem more variable than ones we saw elsewhere on the trip and one of them is very dark on the tube and base of the flowers which does not fit the description for Crocus biflorus subsp. tauri.
Is it possible that this one could be Crocus aerius or something else?

It is not aerius. I regard it as Crocus taurii. In attachment my pictures from Kop gec. Now "biflorus subsp." are regarded as species! It was confirmed by cytological researches.
Janis

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Margaret Thorne on February 09, 2013, 11:14:54 AM

Thanks for a really informative reply, Janis. I really appreciate it, as will the rest of the group.

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Margaret Thorne on February 11, 2013, 02:50:19 PM

Thanks to Maggi for some great posts before the trip, to Dave for such a fabulous photographic diary once we got back (with additions by Claire) and now to Janis for identifying the crocuses: see previous posts from 6th, 8th and 9th  February
 
John Birks very kindly confirmed that the Pedicularis we saw in the Doğanşehir Mountains on 15th May was Pedicularis  cadmea.


(Edit by maggi to show crocus query pix added here rather than in another thread)

Title: Re: SRGC Guided Tour to Eastern Turkey - May 2012
Post by: Claire Cockcroft on February 11, 2013, 06:09:16 PM

Thank you for the identification of Crocus yakarianus.  I took pictures of two crocus growing side by side in the same spot as Margaret took her photos in the Doğanşehir Mountains.  The first definitely resembles C. yakarianus, but the second isn't, is that right?