Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops

[Cariad]

I have found this discussion very useful as someone new to chipping. About five years ago I bought 'Modern Art' which was 'right' in the first year and since then has lost the green markings on the outers. I decided to chip to see if I could make it revert. Lo and behold I now have Modern Art with green markings while the original clump remains stubbornly white. Can anyone throw light on why this might be?

Barry

[annew]

Ha! I like it! Presumably the same process that made it lose the marks in the first place - I might try it with a reverted ipoc.

[Stefan B.]

  I am very disappointed

Galanthus South Hayes

[Alan_b]

The thing that worries me is the assumption that either the bulbs resulting from chipping are true clones of their parent or they are so different as to be immediately identifiable as such and thus can be weeded out.  Of course the chipper must be scrupulous to flower each chipped bulb so it can be verified and that manifestly doesn't always happen.  But what if the bulb has been changed but only in a small way so the result is a bulb that is not quite as yellow or not quite as well-marked?   

[Gail]

There is a tendency to blame any instability on the chipping but I suspect some cultivars are naturally (genetically?) prone to instability whether they have been chipped or not. My 'South Hayes' (first picture) behaved perfectly normally for the first five years after purchase, then for the last 3 years has been increasingly abnormal. The first time I had a couple of abnormal flowers I assumed that they were seedling bulbs that had accidentally got in the clump so I split and isolated/labelled bulbs as normal or otherwise. This year I do not have a single normal 'South Hayes' - most of them are flowering like the one on the right in the second picture but one is virtually all white with just a small splash of green on one petal. I do not know whether my initial bulb had been chipped or not before I purchased it but you would think that if instability was actually caused by the chipping process you would see the effect in the first year or two. The plants look healthy with no streaking on the leaves that would make me suspicious that this was a viral-induced change.
 

[Alan_b]

I have a number of snowdrops that I have found and grown-on for approaching 10 years.  These have never been chipped by me and always come true to type.  But I have given-away bulbs for chipping and last week I went to see the results in one collection.  In the case of two of my nivalis ipocs the pot of chips contained one or two normal bulbs that showed no trace of the character of the original.  But the rest, the majority, looked as expected.  I also saw an example of a nivalis poc where the same thing had happened, another one that I had grown myself for years although I was not the source of the chipped bulb in that instance.  I am sure that the person who did the chipping is scrupulously careful so these (minority case) reversions must surely have been caused by the chipping process.  I know for certain that it does not happen naturally, or possibly only happens with such a small probability that I have never yet observed it.  So, to the best of my knowledge, there is no inherent instability. 

If there are other factors that can cause a snowdrop to 'revert' than I have never yet observed this on any snowdrop I have grown-on.  But I have had one snowdrop, produced by chipping and in looks akin to 'South Hayes', that always struggled to "do its thing".  I bet if you could get hold of a 'South Hayes' that was a direct, never chipped, clone of the original bulb then you would have no problems, Gail.     

[annew]

Funnily enough, the few bulbs of South Hayes I still have ( though seemingly infected with virus - pinching together of leaf edges -  and so kept away from others) have always flowered absolutely true, despite being chipped.
Fascinating, isn't it?

[Alan_b]

I only met the notion that pinching together of the leaf edges is indicative of a virus a few weeks ago when I visited Avon Bulbs.  How long has this been known, Anne? 

[Anthony Hawkins]

pinching together of leaf edges

1/ Could you post a picture to show this phenomenon, please.
2/ What distamce separation do you think is neccessary?

[annew]

I only met the notion that pinching together of the leaf edges is indicative of a virus a few weeks ago when I visited Avon Bulbs.  How long has this been known, Anne?

It was pointed out to me a couple of years ago. I've had it from 2 sources and they have the same pinch, but I have seen others in photos which don't.
As for distance - as far as you can get. Should bin them really.

[annew]

This is what it looks like. They look fine at first as the leaves emerge, then the pinch appears as the leaves expand.

[Shauney]

1/ Could you post a picture to show this phenomenon, please.
2/ What distamce separation do you think is neccessary?

This is a pic of some of my South Hayes!  I've never chipped my bulbs but have no idea if they had been prior to me obtaining them. Mine are all from the same stock but not all bulbs do it every year and strangely I've noticed that they're more prone to pinching on mature bulbs. Other than the leaves pinching, the plants look healthy, flower and increase well! It has never happened to any other of my drops even though they have come into contact with S H. So must be isolated to just this variety which would mean it's most likely genetic and no need to issolate. It was probably something that happened during being chipped and was passed on before it was picked up!
A real shame as it's such a lovely plant.

[annew]

Mine look the same, Shauney. I certainly can't sell them like that.

[Maggi Young]

Mine look the same, Shauney. I certainly can't sell them like that.

That demonstrates the integrity we have come to expect  from you, Anne.

[partisangardener]

The epigentic explanation would explain most of your puzzling results.
What causes epigentic methylation in the genome (what is expressed of the genome) is all kind of stress (trauma).  We do stress them a lot. Twinscaling, the transplanting in the green, lack of water and what not.
This may influence the whole plant or only a few cells, like a cutting knife or a fungus attack, or virus.

But it may happen or not. It can’t be yet fully determined. Most of the outcome is certainly not visibly expressed.
Some do not grow to well, get smaller, more draught tolerant and so on. This might fade away through environment conditions or even stabilized. That’s what epigenetic expression is good for

These types which revert to their sought type under ideal conditions means the change to the wrong type was a stop of expressing the mutated genome, this part of the genome was not expressed because of methylation. This may fade after some time.

There is the other way round. The cherished form is caused by methylation of part of the genome. When it reverts it is unlikely that we find the special place for methylation again.
We even won’t find out why it happened the first place. But maybe some will do the same trick again, because the multifaceted dice of epigentic fell again to the exact side. It is more likely than a mutation, so there is hope.

But science goes on and we will find a way to understand and edit what we will. But then everything will be a piece of art.
This is probably nothing for the near future.