We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button

Author Topic: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops  (Read 14361 times)

brianw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2015, 10:04:47 PM »
Now there is a thought. Tying together halves of 2 different genera ;-)
How closely related would they have to be to fuse together? Family fruit trees work; sort of.
Edge of Chiltern hills, 25 miles west of London, England

Susan Band

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 842
  • Country: 00
    • Pitcairn Alpines
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2015, 07:40:47 AM »
I have had a search and there is one mention of grafting hyacinth. This must be what I did. I had an unusual childhood  ;) I also remember splitting stems of carnations and putting them in different coloured dyes to get multicored flowers
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 07:52:03 AM by Susan Band »
Susan Band, Pitcairn Alpines, ,PERTH. Scotland


Susan's website:
http://www.pitcairnalpines.co.uk

Susan Band

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 842
  • Country: 00
    • Pitcairn Alpines
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2015, 07:51:11 AM »
'Darwin says in his book on Animals and Plants, under Domestication, Vol. 1st, page 474; that, 'the author of Des Jacinthes impressed me with the belief not only of his extensive knowledge, but of his truthfulness. He says that bulbs of blue and red hyacinths may be cut in two, and they will grow together and throw up a united stem (and this I have myself seen), with flowers of the two colors on opposite sides. But the remarkable point is, that flowers are sometimes produced with the two colors blended together'
Will have to wait til next year to try. Susan
Susan Band, Pitcairn Alpines, ,PERTH. Scotland


Susan's website:
http://www.pitcairnalpines.co.uk

Brian Ellis

  • Brian the Britisher
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5205
  • Country: england
  • 'Dropoholic
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2015, 08:29:41 AM »
Thank you all for this most interesting discussion, it makes a wonderful change from eBay prices etc 8)
Brian Ellis, Brooke, Norfolk UK. altitude 30m Mintemp -8C

Tim Harberd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2015, 08:35:42 AM »
I'd be VERY surprised if Darwin used the spelling ''colors''  !!

Tim DH

steve owen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
  • Country: 00
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2015, 03:47:59 PM »
Read this thread for the first time - very interesting.
Can I throw one other thought in?  I have found that snowdrops immersed in fungicide or disinfectant (or both) when dormant, experience a marked check to their growth in the following growing season, then regain their normal vigour the season after. So there's a physiological effect on the bulb. Might the fungicide which is normally used during the chipping/twinscaling processes be also having some sort of physiological effect on the chips leading to instability in marking?
NCPPG National Collection Holder for Galanthus
Beds/Bucks border

mark smyth

  • Hopeless Galanthophile
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15254
  • Country: gb
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2015, 03:49:40 PM »
The fungicide will be killing bad and beneficial fungi
Antrim, Northern Ireland Z8
www.snowdropinfo.com / www.marksgardenplants.com / www.saveourswifts.co.uk

When the swifts arrive empty the green house

All photos taken with a Canon 900T and 230

annew

  • Daff as a brush
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5397
  • Country: england
    • Dryad Nursery: Bulbs and Botanic Cards
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2015, 04:18:24 PM »
Interesting, Steve. Do you give your bulbs this treatment routinely, or just if they seem to need it?
MINIONS! I need more minions!
Anne Wright, Dryad Nursery, Yorkshire, England

www.dryad-home.co.uk

steve owen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
  • Country: 00
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2015, 08:26:14 PM »
Anne
I was speculating about the possible effect of the routine fungiciding we are told bv the experts  is an integral part of the chipping and twinscaling process. I presume their advice comes from the bitter experience of trying to chip/twinscale and seeing the chips in their bags going mouldy.

Regarding dormant bulbs, its a matter of proportion. If I have taken up a lattice pot of plants that whilst growing looked perfectly healthy, they will get knocked out and, if the tunics look good,  given a quick rinse of organic disinfectant such as Citrox and repotted.  If on the other hand its a single bulb of a rare and expensive variety and its got Stag big-time, I would peel the bulb layers back to what looks like clean tissue (if necessary going back to the central core of the bulb), then steeping it overnight in Armillatox or Jeyes. I replant in a high-grit mixture.

There is no doubt the bulbs hate this treatment and it severely checks their growth. But I find it usually saves the bulb.
NCPPG National Collection Holder for Galanthus
Beds/Bucks border

annew

  • Daff as a brush
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5397
  • Country: england
    • Dryad Nursery: Bulbs and Botanic Cards
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2015, 06:51:53 AM »
Steve, do you not think it might be a combination of a) the bulb being sick to start with and b) the fact that it has been severely mechanically damaged that might be responsible for the set-back you noticed, rather than the chemical treatment?
MINIONS! I need more minions!
Anne Wright, Dryad Nursery, Yorkshire, England

www.dryad-home.co.uk

Alan_b

  • 'finder of the light'
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
  • Country: england
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2015, 08:11:17 AM »
I experimented with Citrox on bulbs moved in the green a few years ago.  Although this is supposed to be a plant-safe disinfectant, bulbs soaked for any length of time would go-over a few weeks after exposure.  I thought it might be harming the ability of the roots to continue to take-up water but that is just conjecture.  Bulbs of a decent size recovered after a year or two. 
Almost in Scotland.

steve owen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
  • Country: 00
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2015, 06:58:00 PM »
Steve, do you not think it might be a combination of a) the bulb being sick to start with and b) the fact that it has been severely mechanically damaged that might be responsible for the set-back you noticed, rather than the chemical treatment?

It might. The set-back occurs to bulbs not needing to be stripped back as well as the radically-treated. I haven't carried out any sort of scientific measurement. In any case I don't understand the physiological changes to the bulb that Stag is inflicting beyond the obvious (because it's so visual) physical degradation of the bulb.

I hope it is due in part to the chemical treatment, because if the bulb is capable of absorbing whatever antidote to Stag is present in the anti-fungicide steep, then it it makes it more likely that it can similarly absorb a Provado drench that will give narcissus fly and swift moth larvae a severe tummyache.  "He which hath no stomach to this bulb let him depart; his passport shall be made, And crowns for convoy put into his purse;". 8)
NCPPG National Collection Holder for Galanthus
Beds/Bucks border

Chad

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2019, 09:53:51 PM »
Anne,

Did the South Hayes revert to normal with time?

Or was the variation 'fixed'?

Chad
Inland Cornwall

annew

  • Daff as a brush
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5397
  • Country: england
    • Dryad Nursery: Bulbs and Botanic Cards
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2019, 09:38:41 AM »
In that case, the reversion has been permanent.
MINIONS! I need more minions!
Anne Wright, Dryad Nursery, Yorkshire, England

www.dryad-home.co.uk

Chad

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Chipping-induced instability in snowdrops
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2019, 10:22:01 PM »
Many thanks and commiserations Anne.

Chad
Inland Cornwall

 


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal