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Author Topic: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus  (Read 2783 times)

gote

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Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« on: February 10, 2010, 07:15:49 PM »
Re Crocus hadriaticus loss.
The surviving corms look smaller. Could they be less fat? Often plants that are growing too well are more sensitive to frost - something I have learnt the hard way.  
Göte
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 07:28:27 PM by Maggi Young »
Göte Svanholm
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Ian Y

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2010, 07:39:06 PM »
You raise a very good point Gote.

I learnt very early on in my bulb growing journey that fat bulbs were not that healthy and were much more susceptible to frosts etc. It is especially true for bulbs that are over fed on nitrogen - not something I am guilty of.

I do not think that these corms were over fat just about the right size for a mature corm.

On the other hand it was the smaller ones that have survived so it could be possible.

When you think of where some of these crocus come from they will not be used to such extremely low temperatures especially as they are growing in the ground which will moderate the extremes.

Growing them in plastic pots just standing on a bed of sand does not provide the same level of insulation.

If that is all the losses I have suffered due to the freezing I will consider myself very lucky.
Ian Young, Aberdeen North East Scotland   - 
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Gerry Webster

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2010, 08:29:31 PM »
The relation between the size of a bulb & its ability to survive adverse environmental conditions is an interesting topic. Although I have never made systematic observations, I have the impression that seedling bulbs, i.e., small bulbs, can survive conditions in cultivation that would be fatal, or at least detrimental, to more mature specimens. And presumably this must be true in the wild where seedlings cannot be very deep in the soil during the early part of their lives. The corms of C. hadriaticus, like other crocus of the saffron group, can get quite large. And these survive very well under the  winter conditions which are 'normal', at least in the S of the UK.     
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mark smyth

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2010, 10:16:35 PM »
I have bulbs with yellow tips also. These are mainly my 4 pots of chrysanthus Sunspot that started flowering pre the cold snap
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Lesley Cox

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 07:47:12 PM »
So very sad to see the frost damaged foliage of crocuses which have been healthy for years and especially so when a whole species is destroyed, such as cambessedesii Ian. I hope you can source some new corms or seeds.

Mark surely not ALL your lovely 'Sunspot' corms?

Would any of these have been better off planted out in the open garden?
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

Lesley Cox

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 07:49:31 PM »
Ian, have you thought about WHY that particular fritillaria should have such different seeds from the rest of its genus? and I keep wondering why F. davidii has such different leaves. Such differences, quite major really, are often enough for the botanists and taxonomists to put them into a new genus. :(
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

annew

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 10:24:37 PM »
Just what I was thinking, Lesley.
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mark smyth

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 05:41:27 PM »
All my C. vallicola are dead  :'( They have rotted where their necks meet the corm. All roots are also dead.
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tonyg

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 06:06:51 PM »
More by luck than judgement I have kept mine very dry since it turned cold.  Some losses in seed pots, just as Mark describes but so far so good here.  Not out of the woods just yet though.

Lesley Cox

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 07:53:19 PM »
All my C. vallicola are dead  :'( They have rotted where their necks meet the corm. All roots are also dead.

Oh Mark, that is really tragic. I hope you can replace them from somewhere.

My own vallicola, (one from Potterton and Martin in 1993, always flowering but never seeding and half a dozen grown from Jan Jilek seed 6 years ago), all flower well now and I had some seed this year, no doubt from the cross pollination. I'd send it but it is sown already. I planted out the corms in the garden a few days ago.

I know it's easy for me to say, living in a climate where we never have the winters experienced in the Northern Hemisphere, but I am a firm believer in planting out as much as possible. The large planting area (ground instead of pot) ensures a more constant temperature and also drains away excess water but provides that little bit of damp that pots can't, except with daily vigilence.
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

Ian Y

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 01:27:11 PM »
Ian, have you thought about WHY that particular fritillaria should have such different seeds from the rest of its genus? and I keep wondering why F. davidii has such different leaves. Such differences, quite major really, are often enough for the botanists and taxonomists to put them into a new genus. :(

I would agree entirely Lesley.

I think there is a good case for the plants we know as Fritillaria could be divided into a number of different genera. These Japanese ones with the strange seeds for one, F. davidii that you mention, a number of the Asian ones plus the N. American ones could all be split off in my view.
Or the other way is to lump them all back into the Lilies which would then have to include sink Nomocharis...........

Lets not go there - common sense please taxonomists.
 ;) ;)

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Lesley Cox

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2010, 07:33:42 PM »

Lets not go there - common sense please taxonomists.
 ;) ;)

Have to second that for a quite different reason. We had Narcissus on our "permitted list" with every species allowed at one time but then Blanchard or someone started splitting and making new species so MAF decided there were all these new ones which would have to be assessed. Can't get in many species now.
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2010, 06:19:47 PM »
Ian - you mention feeding your bulbs with potash after the bulbs have flowered so as to build them up for the next year.  I'm growing some Cyclamen hederifolium which I started from seed last September and they have been growing under lights in my basement.  They are coming along very well and I want to try to increase the size of the corm by applying some potash.  Based on your experience when would you do this?

My experience with growing Cyclamen is that they will continue to grow well as long as I can keep the soil moist.  In the past I found that once they first went dormant I had a hard time getting them to the point where they would leaf out again.  I'm attributing this to the fact that I think the corm wasn't large enough to remain viable for any real length of time - I let them dry out too much and didn't start watering them again soon enough.  By applying the potash I am expecting to get a larger corm which will remain viable through the summer until they can start growing themselves with the start of cooler weather in the fall.  Does this make sense?
Rob Stuart - Ottawa, Ontario Canada - z5

Ian Y

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Re: Bulb log 6/2010 Dead crocus
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2010, 07:19:07 PM »
Rob

Under the conditions you describe I would start feeding potassium now. You could use a liquid type tomato feed, see this weeks bulb log 9, that would also supply a small amount of nitrogen to help with the initial leaf growth - once you think the leaves are fully formed then switch to potassium which should beef up your corms.

It is important never to let young cyclamen dry out completely until they are big enough to withstand a dormancy and even then many cyclamen like a bit of moisture deep down to keep their roots ticking over.
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