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Bulbs => Ian Young's Bulb Log - Feedback Forum => Topic started by: Lesley Cox on February 20, 2008, 11:14:33 PM

Title: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 20, 2008, 11:14:33 PM
You're right Maggi, an ACE picture (and I don't mean expeditions to China) ;) We need Ian on theTourist Board I think.

The whole edition of the Log is excellent - as always - and I'm particularly pleased to see the pic of Cr. bif. alexandri because the bluest one looks just like mine, which I had originally as aerius, then was told it was bif. pulchricolor. Thomas has TOLD me it's bif. alexandri and I believe every word he says - yes really - but my other bif. alexandri is so different as are all those I've seen or seen in pics, like the one on the crocus thread recently. snowy white with almost black, cleanly marked patches on the outer petals, so Ian's one is re-assuring.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Maggi Young on February 20, 2008, 11:28:29 PM
I can't remember off hand what the source of the seed for the Crocus biflorus alexandri was, I will check tomorrow.... they show charming variation, don't they? 
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 21, 2008, 09:36:43 AM
Great log once more !  :D

I wonder, would Frit. pudica survive outdoors over here ??  ???
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Brian Ellis on February 21, 2008, 09:45:18 AM
I have to agree, a super bulb log.  Wednesdays see me trying the url to see when it is uploaded, I can get quite worried towards the afternoon ::)

By happy coincidence last night we had an interesting talk of Turkey by Robert Unwin of the RBGE, there were some super photos in his presentation of Fritillaria alburyana in its type locality - in late May I believe.  Such a pleasure to have a young man on the lecture circuit, third generation horticulturalist and enthusing about the plants.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Ian Y on February 21, 2008, 10:01:58 AM
Thanks for the encouragement - not that I need it when it comes to spreading the pleasure of bulbs.
First a confession: perhaps because of Jet Lag? a Senior moment? no just plain stupidity! I miss-named Crocus biflorus ssp nubigena as  ssp melantherus which is ofcourse the autumn flowering one with black anthers. Thanks to Thomas H. for keeping me on my toes.

Leslie I would welcome the chance to work for the NZ Tourist Board - I would love to be out there with plenty of time to spend taking photographs. When you are on your first trip and want to cram in as much as possible you do not always get the best pictures - I like to absorb the atmosphere for some time and then try and capture it.

Luc Frit pudic makes plenty of rice grains so it is easy to come by and well worth trying - let me know if you would like some rice in the summer.

Robert Unwin is a very enthusiastic and capable young plantsman and it is a delight to see him getting around and lecturing - we should all encourage the young.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 21, 2008, 06:43:15 PM
Luc asks whether F. pudica would survive outdoors in Belgium (sorry I haven't yet learned how to quote).
I grew F. pudica ( a small flowered form) outdoors here in the S of England for 7 or 8 years & it flowered regularly before eventually disappearing like all my outdoor frits. So, it's worth a try. A  superior form with larger flowers ('Richard Britten') lasted only 2 years.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 21, 2008, 06:50:25 PM
Thanks Ian - I'll keep the rice in mind when the moment comes  ;)

Gerry, thanks for the positive comment - I'll have to give them a try.  Any idea as to why you lost your outdoor Frits ?  Did you loose them all at the same time ?  ???
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 21, 2008, 07:01:39 PM
Luc - no,  they were lost over 4 or 5 years. Strangely the first to go was F. pyrenaica - supposedly a good garden plant. This was in a border with an enormous ivy which I think kept the ground dry in  summer but also provided a good home to snails. So, I removed it & the frit disappeared. Next to go was F. thunbergii (F. verticillata hort.) planted in the roots of a Magnolia. I cannot explain why this died out; it seemed to be thriving & increasing. Curiously, F. pudica lasted the longest.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 21, 2008, 07:04:28 PM
Well that's good news Gerry - enough to make me have a go at it ! ;)
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: annew on February 21, 2008, 07:34:51 PM
Gorgeous narcissi - Joan Stead is particularly interesting - do you know the parents that gave it the deep lobing? Your first form of asturiensis looks almost as if it has some cyclamineus blood in it, it's very elegant.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2008, 09:07:03 PM
Gerry, quoting a previous posting is very easy. Look at the top right hand corner of each post and you'll see a little square box with the word "Quote" beside it. Click the word and the "reply" box will appear with the quote at the top of it. From there, by highlighting and deleting if necessary, you can keep just those parts of the post which are relevant to what you want to say.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2008, 09:10:32 PM
Fritillaria pudica is quite hardy here, even in our beastly winter of 2006. And yes, masses of rice but I find these very slow - for ever  :'( - to grow on to flowering size. But I haven't fed them so I suppose I should do that before moaning about it. Removing the larger bulbs hasn't helped either, which it sometimes does, with prolific rice-makers.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2008, 09:16:02 PM
Also meant to ask about my single bulb from seed, of F. alburyana and what I can do to encourage it to split or increase by making even a single tiny little baby? In the Pratt and Jefferson-Brown book on page 81 (soft cover edition) it says ".... forming a rounded bulb with numerous bulblets." Surely that is not right? Mine has flowered the last 4 years from a seed sown in 2001, but no sniff of any increase.

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Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 21, 2008, 10:15:47 PM
Gerry, quoting a previous posting is very easy. Look at the top right hand corner of each post and you'll see a little square box with the word "Quote" beside it. Click the word and the "reply" box will appear with the quote at the top of it. From there, by highlighting and deleting if necessary, you can keep just those parts of the post which are relevant to what you want to say.

Thanks Leslie. Here goes.
May I suggest that you dispose of  the book on Frits by Pratt & Jefferson Brown. It is not the most reliable of sources.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 21, 2008, 10:18:52 PM
Oh Dear! My apologies Lesley (I have a cousin called Leslie in NZ)
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2008, 11:53:06 PM
See? It works! :D Don't worry about mis-spelling my name. You aren't the first - or the fiftieth - to do that. I answer to most things but just don't call me early in the morning. :D

If you want to change your post, go to "modify" in the top right corner of your own post. But you know that already.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2008, 11:58:04 PM
Re P and J-B, I do agree but what else is there, except the wildly out-of-date Christobel Beck, though hers is much more authoritative. Some time ago I started what I'm calling my "Frit File," a collection of every reference I can find including photos, from AGS Bulletins, SRGC Journals and anywhere they appear. I get entirely bogged down after a while and leave it for months before going back. Even now there are hundreds of pages and pics and I expect it will be buried with me, still unfinished.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: annew on February 22, 2008, 09:28:12 AM
I answer to most things but just don't call me early in the morning. :D

Last week I rang a friend on her mobile and a sleepy voice answered - it turned out she was in New Zealand and it was 5.30am there - ooops! Am now waiting for the phone bill to arrive..
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Ian Y on February 22, 2008, 10:29:55 AM
Lesley, Keep pollinating your F. alburyana every day even as the flower fades as you can get a seed set from a single plant - I did.

As for alburyana producing numerous bulblets - I wish. When it is growing well it will produce a single or very occasionally two small bulbs.
Any book that promotes Frits is good but I disagree with many points in Pratt & Jefferson Brown.

I have never managed to grow F pudica out side for any length of time but because of the generous production of rice grains I will keep trying and one day I may just hit the right spot - as for the weather.

Anne, I have no idea what the parentage of 'Joan Stead' may be butt would guess cantabricus and romieuxii must both be involved. I don't normally like split coronas but this one suits it and has a charm all of its own.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 22, 2008, 10:53:17 AM
Re P and J-B, I do agree but what else is there, except the wildly out-of-date Christobel Beck, though hers is much more authoritative.

Well, there is nothing as far as I am aware. I'm still hoping I'll live long enough to see Martyn Rix's  book - somewhat overdue now. Meanwhile, like you, I have compiled my own 'Frit File'.

I've just remembered. David King has a  chapter on N American frits in 'Bulbs of North America' (ed. Jane McGary, Timber Press, 2001). As far as I can judge, this is authoritative
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Tony Willis on February 22, 2008, 04:39:37 PM
In the wild alburyana produces masses of rice grains.They are scattered all over the ground where animals have been digging.Looking like little pearls. In cultivation mine just get smaller by the year until they are dead. Re disagreeing with P and J-B on many points is an understatment  but in this case certainly as far as the wild is concerned they are correct.
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Maggi Young on February 22, 2008, 04:51:28 PM
We can only speak about our experience with the F. alburyana in cultivation..... seeing it in the wild would be a wonderful thing.
 Odd though, that it does produce rice in the wild, while not in cultivation... given that this is usually a reaction to improve survival under stress, you'd think that it would be making rice grains as if there were no tomoorrow in our pots!
A thought:  Any chance of another species close by being responsible for this "casting of pearls"?
Title: Re: Bulb Log 20/2/08
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 22, 2008, 11:59:28 PM
Thanks for the advice Ian. I'll do that, religiously, when (if) it flowers next August.

Tony, your comments have reminded me of something that had quite slipped my (fragile) memory. Back in 1966 when F. alburyana was first discovered, I had a small share in the ACW expedition which colllected it. As part of my share, I received 8 ricegrain sized bulblets of this gorgeous frit. By the time customs (in those days) had had their wicked way with them, they were shrivelled and in any case had to turn their season around for the southern hemisphere, so in the event, none survived. But they were, indubitably, very small bulblets, collected from the type site, the type collection in fact. So yes, you - and P and J-B - are right there, and I apologise to them.
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