All it will mean is it will go underground
Could ANYONE enlighten me as to why this isn't the most shriekingly hot topic on the Forum? Could anyone enlighten me as to why I wouldn't be right to believe that this will mark the end of the SRGC seed exchange?
Marcus
Could ANYONE enlighten me as to why this isn't the most shriekingly hot topic on the Forum? Could anyone enlighten me as to why I wouldn't be right to believe that this will mark the end of the SRGC seed exchange?
If anyone has the time read the latest blog post from Noel Kingsbury and his piece in the Telegraph and you will get a fairly dismal picture as to where all this is going.
I've had another reply. This time from the Eastern Counties MEP, Stuart Agnew . Great support from him. Anyone else had a reply?
Therefore, niche market material shouldSurely that would stop someone like me from selling a new cultivar which I may have developed?
only be made available on the market by professional operators employing a small
number of persons and with a small annual turnover.
I can envisage a day when all plants will be locked up in botanical gardens in the interests of biosecurity and commerce ... While we may be permitted to go and look at examples of them we will have to pay for the privilege
Joni Mitchell predicted this in the 60s:Taking account of inflation, that's now $8.87
They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
Then they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see them
On second thoughts keep on at your MEP. DEFRA are already onside and working with stakeholders to get these regs amended. :)
I've sent the letter to all those named.Similarly to all Irish MEPs, as a member of The Irish Garden Plant Society.
On second thoughts keep on at your MEP. DEFRA are already onside and working with stakeholders to get these regs amended. :)And in any case if you wrote to DEFRA you would get a reply drafted by a (very junior) official, even if signed by a Minister. I have experience in this area!
If the UK refused to accept the proposed regulation change does that mean it can no longer export into the rest of the EU horticultural market? If that was the case would it have any further bearing on the internal domestic trade? Maybe not?
Cheers, Marcus
At the risk again of ruffling feathers, I, like David, would like to hear what other non-British EU members think about this issue. Surely living in the EU hasn't put everyone entirely to sleep?
Can one then live inside the EU? ;D
It would appear a bit of a cop out to urge members to get behind this whilst not being involved itself. Just a thought ....
It would appear a bit of a cop out to urge members to get behind this whilst not being involved itself. Just a thought ....
A civil disobedience project of mass postings to the EC of selfies "in the act of criminality" involving poking one's tongue out ;D?
I would not be surprised if this comes to pass, that it is the Organisers of an event where plants are sold 'illegally' who are prosecuted not the individual plant seller.
Death knell to the Members plant stalls at shows!
There's a village near here that holds an annual plant sale in aid of the village hall. It is well supported by the villagers and well attended not only by the locals but by gardeners from miles around owing to the plants that are on offer. I missed out on a Fuchsia boliviana by but three steps (it's like the January sales when the doors open) for £2 - if they can't sell such rarities then ultimately it will be the community that misses out.
If one takes this legislation to its logical conclusion, all that will be left for people to grow will be F1 hybrid seed strains, and vegetatively propagated cultivars which are covered by plant breeders rights (as these will be the only seeds and plants that breeders will be able to get a return on, to cover the cultivars registration process).If the letter of the law is followed then yes.
If things go on like this, gardeners will become the second largest class of criminals (after motorists). Its already too easy to break the law, in the EU anyway, with restrictions on pesticides for example. When I was studying at Hadlow College a fellow student suggested using dilute washing-up liquid in a spay for aphids; she was told that this would be illegal as washing-up liquid is not an approved pesticide. Armillatox was developed as a fungicide for Honey Fungus (the clue is in the name), but it is now illegal to use it for that in the EU. I could go on.....The idiocy of the EU summed up really. So whilst I cannot legally use a drop of washing-up liquid to sort the whitefly out, I can (in fact I'm probably encouraged) if I want chuck the washing up water over the beds instead of using fresh water from the tap.
All extremism should be opposed by reasonable people. Especially the kind of self-serving extremism that comes from big expensive bureaucracies. They will chip away at your personal liberties until there is nothing left. And all because they feel insecure about their employment. This is happening because of the passivity of the average citizen.
Discussing this with someone on Friday night, I was told that as far as he knew, the British government have stated that they will refuse to implement this legislation if it comes to pass. Cannot find any official announcement to this end though.
There has been opposition to the proposed new seed regulations of the EU in many countries. See for example:
http://www.seed-sovereignty.org/EN/ (http://www.seed-sovereignty.org/EN/)
But there are many more, a lot written in the language of the country itself.
I think many people do not realize what the possible implications of the proposed new legislation can be for ornamental gardening.
The Dutch parliament approved a motion against the new seed regulation in May 2013.
"The European Commission's proposal for plant reproductive material law was voted down by the European Parliament on 10 March, amid concerns that it would give the Commission too much power and leave EU countries without any leeway to tailor the new rules to their needs.
Following the Commission’s refusal to withdraw its draft text and table an improved one, Parliament closed the first reading.
The Commission's draft text was rejected by 650 votes to 15." Matthew Appleby Tuesday, 11 March 2014
If the Council supports Parliament's rejection, then the legislation process will end.
Alternatively, the Council could amend the original Commission's proposal. If it does so, then Parliament could either reject the Council's amendments at the second reading - and thus kill the legislative proposal for good - or it could start negotiations with the Council on the final wording of the new seed legislation.
http://www.hortweek.com/news/1284636/Proposed-plant-reproductive-material-laws-voted-down-European-Parliament/ (http://www.hortweek.com/news/1284636/Proposed-plant-reproductive-material-laws-voted-down-European-Parliament/)
A quality that seems sadly lacking amongst the EU 'powers that be'
Common sense must prevail...............................................................
A quality that seems sadly lacking amongst the EU 'powers that be'
Strange; they've never had trouble reading Marcus' writing before (as Lesley can attest).
I attach a photo (which you can clearly read the labels) of the very "unreadable" packets sent to me. There was a list (all on the MAF list) enclosed with the seeds. Perhaps if they could actually employ someone who could read it would help! >:(
I see that the EU is set to ban Rhododendron ponticum (now Rhododendron x superponticum I believe), making it a criminal offence to own the species or any cultivar derived from it. I wonder what proportion of the plants in Scotland's West Coast gardens will have to be grubbed up and burnt if this goes through.
This is the sort of crap I have to deal with. Just received a letter from the "Ministry for Primary Industries" about a "Mail Item Held" saying the following items sent to you.......do not meet the requirements of the Biosecurity Act 1993 and has been held by the... [MPI]"
Item description: "19 sachets of seeds for sowing with unreadable scientific name. whole parcel".
I attach a photo (which you can clearly read the labels) of the very "unreadable" packets sent to me. There was a list (all on the MAF list) enclosed with the seeds. Perhaps if they could actually employ someone who could read it would help! >:(
The latest elsewhere on the Forum is that the EU have dropped these proposals, at least for the time being.
Hi Guys, and the best Season's Greetings!
Concur with the previous lily boys but the Bellingham and Bullwood hybrids can throw identical plants.
Which leads me to an area that NO ONE will want to go to BUT the Lilium" Lancon"situation is a prime example of the sort of thing the EU bureaucrats, who want to "protect" consumer interests by regulating description and ensuring the correct product is in the market, would be rubbing their hands over. Right up their alley - thanks drongo marketing morons!! A case of money trumping commonsense.
Maggi, maybe this issue can placed on/ at the Regulatory Threats to Plant Movements, etc. thread? This is one of the practices which MUST stop if the arguments for commonsense are to be listened to. Seems innocent enough to us but it is a form of dumping which destroys trust and credibility and plays right into the Commissions hands.
Maggi, on second thoughts maybe my comments can be moved there and a reference may from there to here for illustration?
Apologies on breaking the flow but it needs to said somewhere.
Cheers, Marcus
This rave may probably not mean a thing to southerners but maybe a few will be savvy to whats at stake.
Let alone three quarters of Yorkshire privately owned woodlands, including the Forestry Commission's. Are they going to set up a special branch of the forces, Rhodocop?Love the Rhodocop joke by the way!
Regards
Corrado
Love the Rhodocop joke by the way!
Regarding the PRM legislation, there has been no announcement since the official withdrawal of the proposal in December 2014 (see http://www.hortweek.com/plant-reproductive-material-legislation-european-commissions-withdrawals-list-2015/ornamentals/article/1326823 (http://www.hortweek.com/plant-reproductive-material-legislation-european-commissions-withdrawals-list-2015/ornamentals/article/1326823)).
While this may seem as a victory, it remains worrying as the Commission might decide at any point to put it back on the table.
To reply to your "liaising with other horticultural organisations " question, the UK working group (RHS, DEFRA, NFU, Plant Heritage, HDC, BGA etc) which was set up to study the proposal, try to understand its consequences, and write amendments is still very much alive, and ready to react if...
Nagoya, mentioned in Michael Wickenden's piece is a completely different issue (global legislation, on access and use of genetic material).
The Nagoya protocol is officially in place since October 2014, however every country has to work on its own ways of implementing it. This has to be done by October 2015, but I believe that for the UK DEFRA and Kew are still working on it. For now, nobody really knows what it entails, how or whether it will be enforced at all, by whom, etc...which is the reason why the RHS has not yet issued a statement. Even gardens are only just starting to think about it - there's a PlantNetwork meeting soon on that topic (http://plantnetwork.org/news/booking-opens-nagoya-protocol-day-kew/ (http://plantnetwork.org/news/booking-opens-nagoya-protocol-day-kew/)).
For those who are interested (it's a bit dense - policy paper), here's an early report on Nagoya and how it could affect various sectors: http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=10324_WC1016_FinalreporttoDefra.pdf (http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=10324_WC1016_FinalreporttoDefra.pdf)
the activities and interests of many SRGC members - valuable research, accessions and conservation work - fall between the 'Horticulture' and 'Botanic Garden' categories which the process doesn't seem to acknowledge.I work for Plant Heritage, so I am well aware of that :-\
"The REAL threat to plant biodiversity is habitat destruction, over-exploitation of the environment and state indifference "
I agree - I cannot see how anyone can think that habitat destruction is not the biggest threat: we can see , for instance, from sadly too many instances shown in this forum of, for example, the illegal building of homes and entire villages in Spain, on land which is supposedly "protected" - with all done with impunity. No prior arrangement for preservation by removal etc , no comeback on the transgressors......
The EU has withdraw its proposed legislation regarding plant propergation material. http://www.euroseeds.org/commission-withdraws-proposal-new-eu-seed-law (http://www.euroseeds.org/commission-withdraws-proposal-new-eu-seed-law)
Common sense prevails at last
Hello John, I think some of the problem with "green compost" i.e. collected garden waste, is that it includes woody material which is not broken down fine enough or composted for the required length of time. If it were I think it would be equally as good as other materials. I once suggested that there are two materials that people want to be rid of, sewage and straw. Most straw is now chopped by an attachment on the combined harvester and ploughed into the soil. This is because there are less dairy herds so less winter bedding is required. Ploughing straw into the soil also encourages slugs and slug pellets need to be spread on the fields. I was told that human sewage could not be used in Horticulture because it contains heavy metals. I wonder where the heavy metals came from before they got into the sewage? Composting sewage and straw would make a horticulture medium and recycle two problems in one go. We used to use animal waste to grow edible plants and still do. Human sewage is also "piped" into fields to grow crops. It is piped because people complained of the smell.
Rather him than me Ian, that reminds me of a certain Tory minister who had his daughter eat a beef burger in front of the camera's to prove beef was ok.
The right honorable John Selwyn Gummer MP!
He is now in the House of Lords ....so perhaps he did develop a form of Prion disease.
Oh right, I remember it happening, did he eat his?
RHS Nagoya Protocol Statement
The Royal Horticultural Society is committed to following national laws where plants are collected and supports the conservation and ethical principles enshrined in the Nagoya Protocol.
However, we are also acutely aware of and share the concerns raised by other industry sectors on understanding what the practical implications and impact of the Nagoya Protocol legislation will be on the horticultural sector’s activities and businesses.
Hi Forumists,
Some might be interested in what Tom Mitchell has to say about CBD and in and ex situ conservation,.
Cheers, Marcus
http://www.revolution-snowdrops.co.uk/galanthus-trojanus/ (http://www.revolution-snowdrops.co.uk/galanthus-trojanus/)
PS And for those who have doubts about seed banks, ex situ plant zoos or re-establishment of species and habitats, then maybe have a look at this lecture by Timothy Walker, former director of Oxford Botanic Gardens.
https://vimeo.com/141396973