Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 03, 2010, 10:39:53 AM

Title: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 03, 2010, 10:39:53 AM
About time we started up a 2010 thread for these gems.

Flowering for me today despite -6°C outside :

1) Narcissus "Craigton Clanger" - quite well known around here ....  ;D
2) Narcissus cantabricus monophyllus
3) Narcissus zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on January 03, 2010, 11:01:47 AM
About time we started up a 2010 thread for these gems.
Flowering for me today despite -6°C outside :
1) Narcissus "Craigton Clanger" - quite well known around here ....  ;D
2) Narcissus cantabricus monophyllus
3) Narcissus zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus

Always a joy Luc ,that's for sure. I like the first one , because the color looks a bit softer.
Here a bit more inland ,only romieuxii is flowering ,but the buds in the others are coming.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on January 03, 2010, 12:47:03 PM
All beautiful Luc 8)

N. romieuxii is the only one flowering here but now collapses every night & perks up again each day as Ian showed in his Bulblog.  N. cantabricus that flowered last September has seed pods almost ripe, while N. asturiensis & my few other early pseudonarcissus types are slow this season.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 03, 2010, 12:53:31 PM
About time we started up a 2010 thread for these gems.

Flowering for me today despite -6°C outside :

1) Narcissus "Craigton Clanger" - quite well known around here ....  ;D
2) Narcissus cantabricus monophyllus
3) Narcissus zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus
Very nice Luc.  The N.  zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus which you kindly sent me is in flower but for some reason is slightly misshapen. So no pic. Yours looks superb.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on January 03, 2010, 03:16:15 PM

Flowering for me today despite -6°C outside :


I guess you mean flowering inside despite -6°C outside ?

Is that nice hybrid man-made ?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 03, 2010, 05:05:46 PM
The N.  zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus you sent me (thank you!!) are looking healthy, but the bud got stuck emerging from the spathe, and so is also mis-shapen. I should have helped it when I saw the problem. I will look forward to the next one - yours is beautiful.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 03, 2010, 06:00:22 PM

Is that nice hybrid man-made ?

Luc - N.  zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus is a natural hybrid collected by Mike Salmon & Mark Fillan in the Zaian Mts., Morocco
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 03, 2010, 06:45:13 PM
Thanks for helping out Gerry  :D  :D!

Sorry to hear yours and Anne's didn't form perfect flowers.
They may not have liked crossing the channel..  :-\
I hope they do better for you next year  !

And yes LucS - they were flowering inside and the -6°C was definitely outside... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Stone Rider on January 03, 2010, 11:08:37 PM
I have this note and photo from Fritz Kummert

I think that we can show one happy senior rock gardener
with new alpine house and a crevice bed. As seen in other thread
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4656.msg126294#msg126294

Austrian plantsman Fritz Kummert just today send me interesting information about really small Narcissus together with a cute photograph. My Czech bulletin Skalnicky will share the pleasure with SRGC Forum and we will wish Stefi and Fritz
long lasting happiness.



"Narcissus cantabricus DC. ssp. monophyllus

  After information from Spanish Narcissus specialists there are more than one species involved in what is called Narcissus cantabricus. The naming of this species was from the beginning an error, de Candolle’s herbarium-sheet was labelled to hail from “Cantabria”, but no white hoop-petticoat grows in this region!

  Flora Europaea ignores the subspecies monophyllus, which is found at the Puerto de la Virgen and around the Santuario de la Virgen in the Sierra de los Filabres. It is a plant of crystalline rocks; a typical companion plant is Cistus albidus. The soils in which subspecies monophyllus occur is typical very shallow and stony. We saw it on two occasions in full flower: 2000 end of February and 2009 end of March. The small spherical bulbs lie not very deep in the ground and possess in most cases only one thread-like leaf. The sight of thousands and thousands of these glistening white flowers is breath taking!

  After my experience this small narcissus cannot be grown in the open ground, it is a plant for the alpine-house. Propagation takes place by division of the bulbs, which is slowly with some clones, or through seeding. Seed-set in the alpine-house is good after artificial pollination. It lasts at least three years from sowing to the first flower!"
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 04, 2010, 11:50:03 PM
Hello,
These are some pictures from my friend Angel Sánchez of Narcissus albicans acctually blooming in the wild, although it was described perfectly, it was  considered many time as N. cantabricus and many other names, also considered hybrids.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 04, 2010, 11:59:46 PM
Rafa, will you thank Angel for sharing these photos with us, please?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 05, 2010, 12:29:59 PM
of course Maggy! he is a very nice person and generous..
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 05, 2010, 01:46:06 PM
Thank you and Angel, Rafa. These are very interesting. No wonder such confusion - they are very variable.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 05, 2010, 01:59:27 PM
Nothing beats flowering in the wild does it ??
Thanks for showing Rafa (and Angel of course !)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 05, 2010, 02:13:10 PM
Many thanks Rafa & Angel. It would be interesting to have some information on  the specific differences between N. albicans & N cantabricus.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 05, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
There are several bioecological  and morphological differences.

Narcissus albicans, blooms in late December to late January, is very variable species concerning the flower color that it could be almost white, cream, or even sulfure color, but diferent from graellsii's greenish/cyan tone. It prefers open stony places with full sun, and it seems there are more distribution by seeds than by vegetative bulb division. It's an species well distributed through central and south Spain.
Morphologically the bulbs have dark brown tunics, not black. Size 9/14 x 8/10mm and polyphyllum 2 to 4 leaves per bulb. The flowers has a longer tube with a closed angle in the corone, not so open and drastic like in N. cantabricus.

Narcissus x litigiosus is the hybrid with N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus.

Narcissus cantabricus is more central northen plant in Spain and it is neccessary to revised all the localities to know the real distribution of both species. Pollen studies from N. cantabricus collected in Morocco also reveled they were N. albicans.
N. cantabricus has smaller bulbls than N. albicans with black tunics, and it is always monophyllus. Several bulbs could be contained in the same tunic, but each bulb has one leaf. The flower color is invariabily white, homogenean. Also it blooms one moth later than N. albicans in shady places, or many part of the day in full shade.

Narcissus x matritensis is the hybrid between N. cantabricus and N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus.

We think there is no blooming coincicende between both species also due the ecologycal difference, but is necessary more studies.

 



Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 05, 2010, 09:25:50 PM
This is very useful, Rafa. Thank you.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 05, 2010, 09:57:53 PM
Also these are names considered synonims of N. albicans:

N. graellsii var. granatensis
N. nivalis var. granatensis
N. x litigiosus var. granatensis
N. blancoi
N. cantabricus subsp. luteolentus
N. x neocarpetanus nothovar. romanensis
N. x magni-antonii
N. cantabricus x N. tenuifolius
N. x barrae


Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 05, 2010, 10:12:20 PM
Many thanks Rafa - that is fascinating & very useful.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ian Y on January 06, 2010, 01:59:25 PM
Rafa these posts on Narcissus albicans are fascinating and helpful.

Is this work based on morphology or DNA work?

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 06, 2010, 05:40:19 PM
Ian, there is a cariology study in two localities, DNA count 2n= 2x= 14 diploid.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 06, 2010, 10:37:48 PM
Ian, there is a cariology study in two localities, DNA count 2n= 2x= 14 diploid.
Sorry, Rafa, I do not understand..... I have never heard this term "cariology" and my dictionary says it is concerned with the study of dental caries!  :-\ :-X
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Casalima on January 06, 2010, 10:52:12 PM
Karyology?? (study of sets of chromosomes)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 06, 2010, 10:57:34 PM
oh sorry! thanks to the proffesional ladyTranslator  ;) it is Karyology
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 06, 2010, 10:58:39 PM
Yes, what Rafa is referring to is an analysis of the karyotype of the species - the number & appearance of the chromosomes.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 06, 2010, 11:02:56 PM
AHA! thank you, everyone..... I  have a tendency to be something of a  "literalist"  ;D when reading... did not see that wood for the trees! :-[
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 09, 2010, 09:19:42 PM
I was at Wisley over the holidays and snapped these shots of N. cantabricus in the alpine house.  Unfortunately, my camera went dead right after!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 09, 2010, 09:32:45 PM
Thank goodness you captured those beauties at least Jamie  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 09, 2010, 11:06:02 PM
'Knock-'em-dead' beautiful, then!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 14, 2010, 01:15:46 PM
Please can someone explain how some plants, such as Narcissus Cedric Morris, can have fertile pollen but they will not set seed? Is it not the same process producing both the male and female gametes?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 14, 2010, 01:43:35 PM
Anne - are they self-sterile (like Crocus cartwrightianus)? Have you tried pollinating with another species?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ian Y on January 14, 2010, 02:10:17 PM
Quote
lease can someone explain how some plants, such as Narcissus Cedric Morris, can have fertile pollen but they will not set seed? Is it not the same process producing both the male and female gametes?

Anne I suspect that 'Cedric Morris' is a triploid. To cross or self fertilise half the chromosomes need to come from each parent and  dividing three by two does not give a whole number.
If a plant was to mutate again and say double its chromosomes to six then you will have a fertile plant.
I have tried using the pollen onto some other Narcissus without any success but there are not many in the same section in flower just now - I should save some pollen in the fridge.
How ever not being fertile means the flowers stay fresh for longer than any other Narcissus I know.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 14, 2010, 03:30:07 PM
The pollen is fertile - that's what puzzles me. I guess someone will say unreduced gametes if it is indeed a triploid. I've tried pollinating with all sorts, and it will not set seed. Daffnet also says it has fertile pollen only.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 14, 2010, 05:50:08 PM
Although of no obvious help with Anne’s problem, it seems that  ‘Cedric Morris' is tetraploid.

In a recent study involving measurements of the amount  of nuclear DNA in Narcissus, it was found that  ‘Cedric Morris’ - here regarded as N. asturiensis subsp. villarvildensis  -   had 48 pg of DNA per nucleus. In comparison, 7 samples of N. asturiensis subsp. asturiensis were found to have an average of  24.2 pg per nucleus.

The investigation can be found here: ‘The systematic value of nuclear DNA content for all species of Narcissus L. (Amaryllidaceae)’ by B. J. M. Zonneveld.  In Plant Syst. Evol. (2008) 275:109–132]
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 14, 2010, 09:05:08 PM
Ooops I've got that article, but haven't read it yet. If tetraploid, then it should be fertile both ways, shouldn't it?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on January 14, 2010, 09:05:41 PM
Please can someone explain how some plants, such as Narcissus Cedric Morris, can have fertile pollen but they will not set seed? Is it not the same process producing both the male and female gametes?

Anne, it's to do with the numbers - the odds of fertilisation. A triploid could set seed, but the chances are far lower than the chances of its pollen being successful in pollinating another plant.

If, for example, because of triploidy, a plant's gametes only had a fertility rate of one in a thousand, and if the average number of ovules in the seed pod was say 30 then there's little chance of any of those 30 ovules being fertile. And even if one was fertile and was pollinated, one or two fertilised seeds in one pod might not be enough to prevent the pod aborting. But if you take some pollen from the same plant, with hundreds of thousands of pollen grains, and put the pollen onto another (non-triploid, fertile) plant or plants, then out of those hundreds of thousands of pollen grains, even one in a thousand of them will add up to a lot of fertile pollen grains capable of pollinating a fertile ovule on another plant and producing seed.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 14, 2010, 10:28:54 PM
Ooops I've got that article, but haven't read it yet. If tetraploid, then it should be fertile both ways, shouldn't it?
Yes, I think so.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on January 14, 2010, 10:40:16 PM
Ooops I've got that article, but haven't read it yet. If tetraploid, then it should be fertile both ways, shouldn't it?

Like Ian, I've never managed to get seed from Cedric Morris, but I have managed to pollinate cyclamineus with it, so I too thought it must be a triploid. If it was a tetraploid, then it should set seed freely if crossed with a fertile narcissus with which it's compatible, like cyclamineus.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: rob krejzl on January 14, 2010, 10:48:13 PM
Some lines of tetraploid lilies (particularly LA's) produce small amounts of haploid gametes as well as 2N ones. If that is the case with Cedric Morris it might explain these observations.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 15, 2010, 11:13:59 AM
In Zonnenfelds work, he is not telling us the actual karyotype, rather the measured DNA.  If Cedric Morris has twice the amount of DNA, this doesn't necessarily mean that it is a balanced tetraploid.  It may be an alloploid with non-balanced chromosome sets.  This would make it difficult to have a perfect meiosis and most of the gametes would have incompatable chromosomes and thus be infertile.  A small percentage may be fertile and, as there is considerably more pollen than egg gametes, the chances are that we could use the pollen, while setting seed may be close to impossible.

This is just a thought, as I don't know the karyotype.  Cedric Morris may be a wild hybrid.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 15, 2010, 03:22:14 PM
Jamie - I'm afraid I was rather careless in my reading of Zonneveld. He doesn't describe Cedric Morris as tetraploid but as having a "tetraploid amount of DNA" - not quite the same thing. I find your argument persuasive.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 15, 2010, 10:01:16 PM
Thank you everyone. I think I understand. More thought required.  ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 21, 2010, 07:50:25 PM
This is a lovely narcissus, new to me - Narcissus romieuxii JCA805 Treble Chance.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 21, 2010, 08:14:52 PM
It's not only lovely but very long lasting. The first flowers here opened on 22nd Nov & the pot still looks good. A superb plant & a tribute to Bob Potterton. Incidentally Anne, you managed to capture the colour much better than I did.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on January 21, 2010, 08:35:44 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 22, 2010, 09:53:59 AM
A very good clone indeed !!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 22, 2010, 10:18:32 AM
Really pretty Anne - does it smell?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 22, 2010, 10:41:17 PM
Mmm, I don't know. I'll have a sniff tomorrow.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 23, 2010, 03:01:20 PM
No.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Alex on January 23, 2010, 03:19:32 PM
Cantabricus petunioides is starting to get going - should be a lot of flowers this year...
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 24, 2010, 09:45:41 AM
Beautiful, Alex. You must show us it later as well when they are all out.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 24, 2010, 10:13:14 AM
How long do they go on flowering for Alex?  Your Cantabricus petunioides looks lovely from every angle, even seeing the stamens through the flower from above :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 24, 2010, 10:37:39 AM
I had no idea that N. cantabricus could have such a long bloom period!  Is this typical or a clonal trait?  Seems we need to be doing some more breeding with this plant.  Hmmm.  I love learning something new.

For the record, I received seed of N. viridiflorus from the States and they are sprouting like grass!  Apparently, they are weed-like in certain areas of California.  Here's hoping they take to our Summers in Cologne.  Protected from rain on a south balcony, of course.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on January 26, 2010, 05:34:28 PM
Flowering in my bulb house currently
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 26, 2010, 06:53:46 PM
Beautiful, Arthur - whiter than white!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 26, 2010, 08:08:31 PM
Absolutely gorgeous, Arthur, almost ethereal  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: dominique on January 26, 2010, 10:41:34 PM
Nice pics all. Thank you. Here, Narcissus romieuxii, rifanus and Joy Bishop (thanks Anne), cantabricus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: dominique on January 26, 2010, 10:45:53 PM
and two forms of Narcissus bulbocodium. The first with medium size flowers sent me from seeds of Spain in 2006 and N.b. praecox with very large flowers. You can note the difference. If somebody can identify the first ssp, thank for help
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 27, 2010, 08:13:23 AM
Great display Dominique !
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 27, 2010, 09:09:07 AM
A beautiful collection Dominique.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 27, 2010, 10:11:29 AM
 ::) wondering if my N bulbocodium (from tonyg last year) will flower outside this year...tantalising leaves showing  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on January 27, 2010, 06:30:49 PM
Flowering now in the cold glasshouse : N. tazetta ssp tazetta
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 27, 2010, 09:27:03 PM
Lovely, Luc,  I can smell them from over the border.  Do they ever get frosted or do you maintain temps always above 0°C?

Jamie
Cologne
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on January 28, 2010, 01:00:23 AM
Flowering now in the cold glasshouse : N. tazetta ssp tazetta

Very nice - I look forward to seeing mine flower  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on January 28, 2010, 09:12:31 AM
Lovely, Luc,  I can smell them from over the border.  Do they ever get frosted or do you maintain temps always above 0°C?

Jamie
Cologne

Both got temperatures of -5/-6 in the cold greenhouse (no freezing wind !) this winter.
I covered them a few days when the temperatures went down to -8/-9 °C
(we live only 20km from the sea).
I believe they can withstand -8/-9 °C without harm.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on January 28, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Luc very nice they are a lovely bulb. Mine got down to -5c and seem okay.I have had them for several years and they have not been harmed in the past having been frozen.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on January 28, 2010, 12:19:13 PM
Luc very nice they are a lovely bulb. Mine got down to -5c and seem okay.I have had them for several years and they have not been harmed in the past having been frozen.

Icy winds are a danger for frost-damage.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 28, 2010, 07:19:59 PM
Luc,

thanks for the info.  I had tried some paperwhites in the garden, but they didn't handle more than a few degrees below 0°C, then perished.  I was hoping the tazettas may be a bit more hardy in a protected area.  Of course, this Winter was not typical and lots of things may have given up the ghost, just as last Winter.  I do have a cold house that, like yours, gets frozen, but is protected and I can apply a bit of heat.  I think I'll try some tazettas just to see.

jamie
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on January 28, 2010, 07:32:06 PM
Jamie, I know it's only a tazetta hybrid, but this one does well for us here in Bulgaria. It is under snow just now, but is usually up early enough to have the leaves and flower stems frosted- sometimes down to -9C. This is a pic of it last year.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 28, 2010, 07:40:55 PM
Simon,

if it can handle your weather, it will certainly handle mine!  OK, it's settled.  I gotta get some for the new rockery.  Thanks for the input.

jamie
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on January 28, 2010, 07:47:07 PM
It's worth a go, Jamie. These were just from a UK garden centre. In the Uk they came up before Christmas and looked miserable. Here they are up later and fare much better.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Hans A. on January 29, 2010, 09:57:12 AM
Some (native) Narcissus tazetta  I found on the way to work  ;)-  it grows here next to periodical small streams - Unfortunately a fence avoided to take some better closeup pictures. 
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on January 29, 2010, 10:51:17 AM
Hans,
Great view - it seems spring isn't far away!

Here just the opposite.

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 30, 2010, 03:25:07 PM
Little casting today. Gerd :o, it seems you have to wait some weeks to see N. cantabricus in bloom this year.... :-\
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on January 30, 2010, 05:18:00 PM
Rafa

What temperatures are you having?  All the Narcissus look fine growing outside.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Miriam on January 30, 2010, 06:00:57 PM
Very nice picture near the beautiful stream, Hans.

Wonderful display Rafa! Narcissus romieuxii is my favorite one.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 30, 2010, 06:06:29 PM
It would grow very well in your climate, I will send you some bulbs  ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 30, 2010, 06:15:31 PM
Arthur, in my village temperatures usually down under 0 in winter. Last week at -5º C. I keep most of Narcissi in a green house. In the nature Narcissus cantabricus (15 minutes far from home) is currently blooming. N. albicans bloomed on 27th of december in Toledo and Badajoz, with temperatures also under 0.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Miriam on January 30, 2010, 06:19:07 PM
Seeds would be also enough  ;) :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Alex on January 30, 2010, 06:47:15 PM
Narcissus cantabricus petunioides today - more flowers yet to open...
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 30, 2010, 07:14:04 PM
beatiful selection!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on January 30, 2010, 07:44:00 PM
It is a beauty! Also, Rafa's photograph of a lovely form of N. romieuxii is very fine.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 30, 2010, 11:35:51 PM
Promises of things to come - Gerd you and I snowbound will just have to be patient  ;D - great photos of Narcissus everyone
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on January 31, 2010, 03:42:30 PM
Narcissus JCA805Y atlas gold.

A few Narcissus mesatlanticus  x camoro hybs.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 31, 2010, 04:38:35 PM
Beautiful collection Michael!
Sorry if I insist, but I love this hybrid Narcissus x matritensis
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Hristo on January 31, 2010, 04:41:30 PM
Michael, super detailed photographs of a fabulous collection!
Did you have any losses from the cold snap or was all well?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on January 31, 2010, 04:55:09 PM
Quote
Michael, super detailed photographs of a fabulous collection!
Did you have any losses from the cold snap or was all well?

All the bulbs are OK, but lost a lot of tender shrubs in the garden. I have the greenhouses  heated to 4C so everything inside was nice and cosy.

The seed in the pots that were out in the frost are all germinating like grass, must check again, maybe it is grass :)  
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Hristo on January 31, 2010, 05:02:04 PM
I empathise, lost a few of my orchid species to the -22c snap of last week, here's hoping for more moderate condiitions in our gardens!!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 31, 2010, 05:20:15 PM

Sorry if I insist, but I love this hybrid Narcissus x matritensis


 An exquisite flower, Rafa..... but I am confused ( again! :-[ )

Previously I knew N.munozii-garmandiae  as a naturally occurring hybrid between N.triandrus and N.cantabricus.....  then this was  changed to   N. x susannae for plants of this cross ( in either direction) ....
.... then I have a note of this update in 2008...:

..... × susannae Fernández Casas, Exsicc. Distrib. 3: 13 (1980) (Narcissus) (parentage: N. cantabricus de Candolle [as subsp. monophyllus] × N. triandrus Linnaeus [as subsp. pallidulus] = N. × litigiosus

...then recently you gave us names (in connection with a discussion of N. albicans...

where you said....listed N. × litigiosus and said Narcissus x litigiosus is the hybrid with N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus.

Narcissus x matritensis is the hybrid between N. cantabricus and N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus.........


All this is making me very muddled! If, like me, you are confused, read Rafa's post here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4631.msg127140#msg127140   ...it helps a bit!!



Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on January 31, 2010, 05:38:41 PM
yes, sorry, it confused me too....

The problem was many authors described same hybrids based in 3 different parents (N. albicans, N. cantabricus and N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus).

Narcissus x litigiosus (N. albicans x N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus) this is the older name. But this hybrid has been named under many names, like N. x sussanae, etc due the confusion between N. albicans and N. cantabricus,

Narcissus x matritensis (N. cantabricus x N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus) described in Madrid.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 31, 2010, 05:50:12 PM

Regardless of what we call these enchanting hybrids, I hope we can all agree that they are sublimely beautiful  .... I think among the most beautiful of all narcissus  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on January 31, 2010, 06:11:25 PM
Maggi,

I have to agree wholeheartedly with you.  They have a pristine grace that simply enchants and lighten the spirits.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on January 31, 2010, 06:26:24 PM
Sorry if I insist, but I love this hybrid Narcissus x matritensis

So do I. Absolutely beautiful.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 31, 2010, 07:46:59 PM
Superb Narcissus Rafa and Michael !! Gorgeous plants !

Here's Narcissus bulbocodium mesatlanticus in the garden.
First picture taken last week - second one (in my absence  8), whilst having a great time in Birmingham) on Saturday Jan. 30st  ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on January 31, 2010, 10:39:07 PM
Marvelous narcissi pictures from everybody.

Luc,
the second picture looks like a jingle bell in the snow -
Don't you know christmas time is already over  ;D

Excellent. I would keep this image for your next christmas greeting card!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on January 31, 2010, 10:53:38 PM
Quote
Excellent. I would keep this image for your next christmas greeting card!

 That is a good idea... would be perfect .  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 01, 2010, 05:31:41 PM
Narcissus romieuxii ‘Deep Yellow Form’

A selection made by Fred Hunt. This form retains its colour well - the flower is 3 weeks old - but I find it rather less easy to grow than other forms of N. romieuxii.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 01, 2010, 07:44:19 PM
Nice one Gerry.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 01, 2010, 08:29:12 PM
A very good yellow Gerry !

Here's a yellow one from me :

N. bulbococium genuinus x N. albidus ssp albidus

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 01, 2010, 10:30:21 PM
Thanks David & Luc.

Luc - that's a very attractive plant. Where do you get all these unusual hybrids?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 02, 2010, 10:02:23 AM
Lovely Luc. Does it bulk up excessively :P :P
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 02, 2010, 10:04:53 AM
I'm afraid not David - It's in his third season now since I obtained it and I think I will have 2 bulbs at repotting time..  :-\
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 02, 2010, 12:34:04 PM
Didn't think it would :(
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on February 02, 2010, 05:47:50 PM
Lovely Luc. Does it bulk up excessively :P :P

You have to repeat the cross and grow it up from seeds to obtain a potful.
A picture of the pot where LucG got his bulbs from :
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Hristo on February 02, 2010, 05:49:56 PM
Gery, Luc lovely clear yellows in them there flowers. The frames with our bulbocodiums are once again under snow! :'( so great to see yours!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 03, 2010, 09:42:30 AM
Luc S - that's an impressive potful. Very nice.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 03, 2010, 09:39:39 PM
Is that a pot of different clones, Luc? There is a lot of variation between the flowers. Very nice to see.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on February 05, 2010, 08:37:34 AM
Is that a pot of different clones, Luc? There is a lot of variation between the flowers. Very nice to see.

What you see is the result of a sowing of wild collected seed.
With W.C. seed you always have to expect a fair amount of variation - very much the same as in nature.
I can always select one particular bulb and give it a clonal name, but I prefer the variation.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 05, 2010, 12:05:51 PM
A few of mine pictured today.

The first one, Narcissus romieuxii 'Prolific', I bought from the sales table at our local AGS meeting earlier in the week. This is a form I had not heard of before and I hope it is true to it's name ;D

The second a N. romieuxii form.

 
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 05, 2010, 12:41:56 PM
Looks very good David !  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on February 05, 2010, 01:22:04 PM
Quote
Narcissus romieuxii 'Prolific'

Good luck with your new Narcissus David the photos show great promise :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 05, 2010, 02:07:36 PM
A few of mine pictured today.
The first one, Narcissus romieuxii 'Prolific', I bought from the sales table at our local AGS meeting earlier in the week. This is a form I had not heard of before and I hope it is true to it's name ;D
David - according to Rannveig Wallis' list for Summer 2000 'Prolific' was selected & named by Kath Dryden. It is claimed that the  name is appropriate. Looks very attractive.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 05, 2010, 07:47:09 PM
Thanks all.

Gerry, thanks for that it's great to have a plant originally named by Kath, a lady I never met but had the greatest posssible respect for.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on February 05, 2010, 08:05:13 PM
Quote
according to Rannveig Wallis' list for Summer 2000 'Prolific' was selected & named by Kath Dryden

I have a nice potfull of Narcissus romieuxii 'Prolific and have no idea where I got it from. I thought the name was not genuine so I never bothered to take a pic of it. Glad to see that it is is a valid name as it is indeed prolific.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 05, 2010, 08:57:17 PM
I haven't seen a flower that reflexed before. It's very unusual.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on February 05, 2010, 09:50:15 PM
Anne,  I agree with you.
"Prolific" looks a bit like a satellite dish.
David, very pretty anyway. :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 06, 2010, 10:01:21 AM
I haven't seen a flower that reflexed before. It's very unusual.

Wondered about that myself Anne, but it was the only pot on the stand and I didn't want to miss it. Maybe the run of very dull and wet weather here caused the problem? I'll keep an eye on it next year.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 07, 2010, 06:53:22 PM
Maybe the run of very dull and wet weather here caused the problem?
Problem? What problem? ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 08, 2010, 02:03:08 PM
I had never seen one so "rolled back" before and assumed it was perhaps a cultivation problem!

Here's one of Brian Duncan's raising- Narcissus bulbocodium (Moroccan form) x N. bulbocodium var. nivalis

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Oron Peri on February 12, 2010, 02:41:08 PM
Thanks to a great Spanish forumist, N. dubius in bloom actually. ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on February 12, 2010, 02:47:39 PM
Thanks Oron
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 12, 2010, 04:17:35 PM
Beautiful Oron
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Oron Peri on February 12, 2010, 04:21:59 PM
Thanks guys,
actually i didn't do much, just gave it a little bit of water.... ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Alex on February 13, 2010, 12:39:10 PM
Here's what I got as Narcissus cantabricus petunioides some years ago from David Sampson of Oakdene...it bulks up pretty well, and has been shared amongst a few forum members.

Alex
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 13, 2010, 07:15:38 PM
Very nice indeed Alex.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 13, 2010, 08:10:29 PM
It's fabulous. Mine aren't out yet.  :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 14, 2010, 04:34:44 PM
Wonderful pot Alex !!  :o
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on February 14, 2010, 08:07:39 PM
Nice potful of white petticoats 8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ian mcenery on February 15, 2010, 12:15:16 AM
Here's what I got as Narcissus cantabricus petunioides some years ago from David Sampson of Oakdene...it bulks up pretty well, and has been shared amongst a few forum members.

Alex

Nice show Alex  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on February 15, 2010, 09:44:40 AM
A gorgeous crowd of Narcissus cantabricus petunioides, very uplifting Alex  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on February 15, 2010, 12:20:38 PM
Here's another of Brian Duncan's "babies" a seedling bulbocodium and Brian's notes that accompanied the bulbs said "may have some hedreanthus blood in it"

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on February 15, 2010, 12:28:51 PM
10 weeks ago I photographed Cedric Morris. Last week they started to wither.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on February 15, 2010, 08:30:59 PM
A bit later this year & also from Brian Duncan: Narcissus asturiensis SP47

Can anyone tell me more about this collection number?

Apparently this is a seedling from material collected in the Picos de Europa near San Isidro, but open pollinated and with NN. minor and lagoi nearby.  I'll call it just N. asturiensis ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 17, 2010, 03:30:16 PM
Narcissus romieuxii ‘Atlas Gold’

A selection from JCA805 made by Pottertons in 1993.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on February 17, 2010, 04:18:22 PM
A real beauty Gerry.  I got it just last year & like it very much.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 17, 2010, 04:54:57 PM
Yes Ashley, the new flowers are lovely & I too like it very much. Unfortunately, it does tend to fade to a paler colour.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on February 17, 2010, 09:13:21 PM
Ashley I thinkthis plant could be the greenish lineage from Sierra de Estella, Portugal.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on February 18, 2010, 09:58:29 AM
Thanks Rafa.  I look forward to comparing it with the collection you donated to the exchange in 2008.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on February 18, 2010, 11:05:08 AM
Some Narcissus flowering in my bulb house.

I would appreciate confirmation of the names - or corrections  :)

Narcissus mesatlanticus SF 151
Narcissus bulbocodium vulgaris  WALLIS M84-26
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 20, 2010, 10:21:09 PM
I wouldn't like to stick my neck out there, Art.
The scent in the bulb house in the sun today was wonderful - mostly from narcissus and crocus.
Narcissus 'Joy Bishop', N. 'Yellow Pet', and N. bulbocodium paucinervis contributed their part.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 21, 2010, 09:54:01 AM
Very nice Anne. I've never heard of 'Yellow Pet' - do you know anything about it?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 21, 2010, 10:08:04 AM
I got Yellow Pet from Kath Dryden some time ago. I just looked it up on Daffseek:
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Yellow%20Pet&lastpage=1&which=hist1
I don't know that my photo looks awfully like theirs! I'll send one to Ray Cobb, who named it, and ask him.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 21, 2010, 11:14:01 AM
Thanks Anne. Yes, your plants do look somewhat different to those on Daffseek. But then they look different to each other(age of flower?). At least one of the Daffseek plants resembles a plant I received as the elusive  'Julia Jane'.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 21, 2010, 11:43:02 AM
These are the same plants last year.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 21, 2010, 07:14:44 PM
Wonderful little series Anne !!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Herminarik on February 21, 2010, 08:39:37 PM
Hallo,
The bed with Narcisssus x `Nylon` from our garden. The plants were 6 weeks under the old windows covered with cca 30 cm of snow. This weekend we took away the windows and we stayed amazing on the flowering plants of Narcissus.
Igor
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on February 21, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
They are very brave! They also look very natural. Are the leaves grass or all narcissus leaves?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Herminarik on February 22, 2010, 07:14:41 PM
Good evening,
that’s right the leaves on the picture seem like grass. We grow this cultivar in the open area in the bed with peat and there is actually any grass. But I have to say we have the problems with the other kind of the weed - this peaty soil are appropriate for Stellaria media here. Igor
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on February 25, 2010, 01:14:24 PM
Flowering now, from a bulb which seems to be growing out from under a rock, some sort of Narcissus romieuxii.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 01, 2010, 07:54:56 PM
A couple of mine from the greenhouse today.

The first is Narcissus romieuxii ssp. mesatlanticus x bulbocodium forma 'Tockwith Anne'-- one of Anne Wright's raising and surely warrenting a shorter name. The labels longer than the plant ;D

The second a little Narcissus asturiensis.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 01, 2010, 10:23:37 PM
Narcissus cyclamineus-from seed
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on March 01, 2010, 10:26:50 PM
Beautiful Michael.  How long did it take?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 01, 2010, 10:38:44 PM
Five years.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 01, 2010, 10:44:20 PM
good to have the patience. Are they open pollinated or did you dabble with a brush?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 01, 2010, 10:49:01 PM
Mark,I always dabble. :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 02, 2010, 10:10:23 AM
Nice clump Michael !!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on March 02, 2010, 05:46:42 PM
Here are

1. Narcissus hedraeanthus Sierra de Cazorla form
2.+3.  Narcissus hedraeanthus form from Desfiladero de Despeñaperros
4.+5. Narcissus bulbocodium ex Tizi n'Tichka pass, Morocco

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 02, 2010, 06:03:57 PM
Very nice Gerd. The form of Narcissus hedraeanthus from Sierra de Cazorla is especially attractive.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 02, 2010, 06:48:44 PM
Looking very good indeed, Gerd  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 02, 2010, 08:00:07 PM
I am now a N. hedraeanthus fan Gerd !  8)
Beautiful !!  :o :o
The raindrops add to the charm !
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on March 02, 2010, 08:43:28 PM
All very fine Gerd.  How different the hedraeanthus forms are!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 02, 2010, 09:08:04 PM
Gerd,
marvelous wee Narcissus! They are even more astonishing when to see them "life" ;) :D
Thanks for showing.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 03, 2010, 09:25:38 AM
Gerd, your tiny Narcissus haven't forgotten their wild roots and are absolutely charming, what pleasure to see them flowering  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on March 03, 2010, 05:43:06 PM
This is a recovery Narcissus, which is slowly bulking up under Asphodelus acaulis. Could it be N.bulbocodium X romieuxii?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on March 03, 2010, 05:48:30 PM
Of all the bulbs planted in the garden, Narcissus seem to be the ones affected by the severe weather.

I bought a lot of Narcissus at the Discussion Weekend, and they are only just emerging from the soil.

Is this a common experience?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 03, 2010, 05:58:13 PM
My February gold are only just showing noses now, this time last year they had finished flowering.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 03, 2010, 06:07:01 PM
 Only some of my narcissus bulbs from the Discussion Weekend, from the Conoisseur Collection, are  just showing above the soil...... they may be displaying a good deal of common sense, after the weather we've had! 
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on March 07, 2010, 08:34:26 PM
Now in flower a subspecies of N. romieuxii from Marocco with rather small pale flowers :
Narcissus romieuxii ssp. pallidus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on March 07, 2010, 08:48:58 PM
Another narcissus just starting its flowering: the Spanish Narcissus (hispanicus ssp.) perez-chiscanoi.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 07, 2010, 10:25:04 PM
LucS,
nice narcissus species you have.
The Spanish Narcissus (hispanicus ssp.) perez-chiscanoi is very lovely.
Does it grow and flower in the greenhouse or outside?

And do you had any infestations with Narcissus fly on N. perez-chiscanoi, yet?
I'm asking because my N. hispanicus var. hispanicus "Maximus" in the garden is very susceptible for Narcissus fly while many other species and cultivars are much less or rarely infested.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 08, 2010, 08:34:58 AM
The Narcissus are looking very nice indeed Mr S !!
Do they smell as fine as they look ??
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on March 08, 2010, 08:56:39 AM
LucS,
Indeed a fine stunted form of romieuxii!
I guess the trumpet is cultivated inside?

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on March 08, 2010, 12:14:17 PM
LucS,
nice narcissus species you have.
The Spanish Narcissus (hispanicus ssp.) perez-chiscanoi is very lovely.
Does it grow and flower in the greenhouse or outside?

And do you had any infestations with Narcissus fly on N. perez-chiscanoi, yet?
I'm asking because my N. hispanicus var. hispanicus "Maximus" in the garden is very susceptible for Narcissus fly while many other species and cultivars are much less or rarely infested.
The plants are cultivated in pot in an unheated greenhouse to provide the necessary dry rest during summer.
I had no problems with the Narcissus fly with these plants so far, bur I had problems with other pots in the past. Now I apply a granulated product (against soil insects) in the topsoil of the pots as soon as the temperatures exceed 10°C .
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 08, 2010, 05:31:24 PM
I see, thanks Luc the second ;D

I'll need to think over the best strategy against Narcissus fly in the garden.
Any good ideas?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Casalima on March 09, 2010, 12:23:23 PM
One of my very small north Portuguese Narcissus bulbocodium.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 09, 2010, 07:55:00 PM
Very pretty Chloe. The prominent green stripes on the tube made me look in Blanchard to see if I could identify it and I think it is possibly Narcissus bulbocodium ssp bulbocodium var. citrinus. But a real expert will put me right!!

Here's my N. bulbocodium var. nivalis which I think also keys out in Blanchard.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Casalima on March 09, 2010, 08:26:13 PM
Yours is also very handsome, David!

I have a Blanchard, but I can't find it!! Must be under a mountain of books/papers somewhere  :-\
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on March 09, 2010, 09:03:45 PM
Today in flower : Narcissus citrinus subsp. belinensis
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 10, 2010, 12:24:14 AM
Quote
author=David Nicholson link=topic=4766.msg140780#msg140780 date=1268164500
Here's my N. bulbocodium var. nivalis which I think also keys out in Blanchard.

David - the exserted anthers on your plant do not seem to be consistent with Blanchard's description ("anthers level with margin of corona"), though they do seem to be consistent with  Maire's description as quoted by Blanchard ("stamens usually exserted"). Both descriptions refer to N. African plants.
These bulbocodiums are a nightmare.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 10, 2010, 09:38:41 AM
Gerry, thanks for that. It really is a struggle to ID most of the small Daffs perhaps it's time for a new monograph-any takers out there?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on March 10, 2010, 10:20:25 AM
Gerry, thanks for that. It really is a struggle to ID most of the small Daffs perhaps it's time for a new monograph-any takers out there?

David,
Great nivalis or whatever it will be!
I do hope very much the potential writer of a new monograph will be a 'lumper'.

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 10, 2010, 11:28:02 AM
David,
Great nivalis or whatever it will be!
I do hope very much the potential writer of a new monograph will be a 'lumper'.
Gerd
I agree completely Gerd. I think we have to accept that this is an extremely variable group of plants & that whereas the recognition of 4 or 5 distinct species may be justified, the division into subspecies let alone varieties is meaningless.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: WimB on March 10, 2010, 02:53:04 PM
Flowering here outside:

Narcissus romieuxii
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 10, 2010, 06:57:04 PM
Lumpers 3. Splitters 0. ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Casalima on March 10, 2010, 07:18:04 PM
Lumpers 3. Splitters 0. ;D
You're certainly not referring to snowdrops, are you, David?  :D :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 10, 2010, 07:39:51 PM
Not likely Chloe, there might be cricket scores involved there. ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 12, 2010, 04:35:51 PM
Here are Narcissus 'Mite' from the greenhouse and, at long last N. 'February Gold' from the garden.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on March 13, 2010, 03:11:34 PM
David, fine plants - maybe 'February Gold' becames now 'March Gold'!  ;)

Here are some newer pics from Narcissus hedraeanthus (shown here March 2nd)
plus a darker (and later) form of the same species from the Sierra de Alcaraz.
The last species is Narcissus cantabricus from Segovia - with special thanks to the donor!

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 13, 2010, 06:36:06 PM
David, 'Mite' has an interesting flower. :)

Gerd, wunderful wee narcissus clumps. 8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 13, 2010, 07:02:03 PM
Superb Gerd. The difference between the forms of N. hedraeanthus is remarkable.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 13, 2010, 08:04:02 PM
David, fine plants - maybe 'February Gold' becames now 'March Gold'!  ;)

Here are some newer pics from Narcissus hedraeanthus (shown here March 2nd)
plus a darker (and later) form of the same species from the Sierra de Alcaraz.
The last species is Narcissus cantabricus from Segovia - with special thanks to the donor!

Gerd


Beautiful N. hedraeanthus Gerd and the little cantabricus is gorgeous. My 'February Silver' could well be 'April Silver' unless it gets a move on.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 13, 2010, 08:06:46 PM
David, 'Mite' has an interesting flower. :)
/quote]

Armin, does that mean you are doubtful? This is one I bought as Narcissus assoanus and when it flowered for the first time last year the general view was that it was N. 'Mite'.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 13, 2010, 08:14:52 PM
No David! I'm not doubtful at all.
I find the flower form of 'Mite' more attractive then N. cyclamineus, therefore interesting.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 13, 2010, 08:24:44 PM
No David! I'm not doubtful at all.
I find the flower form of 'Mite' more attractive then N. cyclamineus, therefore interesting.

Breathes huge sigh of relief ;D  It really is a lovely shape.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on March 14, 2010, 06:49:08 AM
Thank you alltogether for kind remarks!

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on March 14, 2010, 07:44:54 AM
I also really like Mite, you guys are making me check me narcissus beds to see if any thing popping up, today I can report the the first bulbododiums are indeed popping up. I have had a pot full up since Xmas but these are young seedlings-about2-3 years.
I also had a look at my bulbocodiums seedlings that were sown last year, they were up for 9 months and are quite a surprising size, infact some have split to 2 and 3 smaller bulbs-is this normal?
Keep up the great pics, I am so envious. Who would think that I would envy people that are still in Winter/spring when we still have mid 20 here most days  ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on March 14, 2010, 01:30:13 PM
Today, I have a form of Narcissus tazetta in flower with a soft yellow (?)corolla  in stead of the usual white.
The flowers are on a stem not more than 15cm high.
Narcissus tazetta ssp. grandicrenatus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 14, 2010, 02:44:37 PM
Wow that's gorgeous Luc  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mark Griffiths on March 14, 2010, 03:16:20 PM
For some reason for decades (different locations) the only Narcissus I had any luck with was N. romieuxii rifanus which I had from bulbs and seed. Not sure the original of this one, I think it was from seed so I am quite prepared to be told it is something else.



 
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 14, 2010, 07:33:07 PM
Today, I have a form of Narcissus tazetta in flower with a soft yellow (?)corolla  in stead of the usual white.
The flowers are on a stem not more than 15cm high.
Narcissus tazetta ssp. grandicrenatus

David's confused (yet again!) Lovely flowers LucS but.......? I looked it up in the Kew Check List and didn't find it! Looked it up in the RHS Botanical Classification List and didn't find it! Then found it here after Googling http://www.rhs.org.uk/RHSWebsite/files/78/78c20a53-f093-4946-86a6-ebd964646409.pdf and it seems Narcissus tazetta ssp. grandicrenatus is a synonym for N. tazetta ssp. italicus..... or have things moved on again? ;D

 
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 14, 2010, 08:15:36 PM
I think it's my night for being confused. At the beginning of the month I posted some pics of my Narcissus asturiensis (here they are again). What is confusing me is that when I compare mine with a pic George Young posted of a N. asturiensis exhibited at Blackpool Show (see the thread Blackpool Show 13 March 2010 and reply 36 in particular  http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5144.msg141838#msg141838  ) they don't particularly look like mine! No one commented when I first posted them but when I took them to our local AGS Group meeting one or two members thought they were a little large for N. asturiensis. I did look at Blanchard and took a few measurements and my plant appeared to fall within the measurements Blanchard gave for the species. Any comments please?

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 14, 2010, 08:30:08 PM
Narcissus cyclamineus

This form is from Susan Band (Pitcairn Alpines).
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 14, 2010, 09:04:52 PM
David, the form shown from Blackpool does look very different.... it is very different.... but these plants,like so many other types, are hugely variable..... fret not Lad, you get bigg ones and little ones and thin ones and fat ones..... some my have a smidgeon of hybrid blood, some may just be chunky.... but they all vary!

Gerry, very cute little cyclamineus fron Susan ........another species that is almost endlessly variable, bless it!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 14, 2010, 09:12:00 PM
Very nice Gerry.

Maggi, you bring calm to my tortured soul ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 14, 2010, 09:25:09 PM
Thank goodness for that, David, I was worried I'd have to come down there and throw a bucket of cold water over you to calm you down!  Well, either that or share the Prozac.... !! :P
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 15, 2010, 11:40:48 AM
Hi everyone - I'm back from my daffodil hunting trip on the AGS tour! Been busy watering/ photographing and pollinating my own plants since returning, but will subject you to my holiday photos when I've sorted them.
Meanwhile, here's a starter. (Scale Bear is 10cm high sitting down).
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 15, 2010, 11:50:28 AM
Welcome home, Anne..... your smile in the photo tells us everything- you had a great time, we can see!

An exciting start with these asturiensis.....good idea to have "scale bear" .... lets us know the size and IDs the photos as being yours at the same time.... along the lines of Stellan's  "travel giraffe" :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 15, 2010, 12:40:10 PM
So glad you enjoyed your trip Anne and can't wait to see your photos  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on March 15, 2010, 01:54:49 PM
David's confused (yet again!) Lovely flowers LucS but.......? I looked it up in the Kew Check List and didn't find it! Looked it up in the RHS Botanical Classification List and didn't find it! Then found it here after Googling http://www.rhs.org.uk/RHSWebsite/files/78/78c20a53-f093-4946-86a6-ebd964646409.pdf and it seems Narcissus tazetta ssp. grandicrenatus is a synonym for N. tazetta ssp. italicus..... or have things moved on again? ;D
David,
I have a pot of N. tazetta ssp italicus in the same sandbed and they look different to me.
The total hight for ssp. grandicrenatus is much lower and the flowering time is always earlier (ssp. italicus will flower in a few weeks I guess). I agree that the flowercolor in both ssp. is similar.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 15, 2010, 04:34:52 PM
My narcisus are now starting to flower,the first two

Narcissus cantabricus ssp petuniodes  received from Alex
Narcissus hedreanthus first time flowering after many years of growing
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 15, 2010, 04:46:28 PM
Tony - the N. hedraeanthus is very attractive. I presume this was from seed?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 15, 2010, 05:14:26 PM
Tony - the N. hedraeanthus is very attractive. I presume this was from seed?

Yes collected on a hot and dry trip in 1999. I went with somebody who knew the site otherwise it would have been impossible to find.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 15, 2010, 05:38:15 PM
Narcissus calcicola

From AGS seed. The scent is wonderful.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Roma on March 15, 2010, 09:48:05 PM
My Narcissus bulbocodium nivalis are like David's with a very long style and exserted anthers.
The first is from AGS seed sown in 2004 and the second from SRGC seed 2007
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 15, 2010, 09:53:48 PM
Narcissus calcicola

From AGS seed. The scent is wonderful.


Lovely to see Gerry, can imagine the scent in sunny Brighton  8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 15, 2010, 10:00:14 PM
Anne you look soooo cold! :o I would have packed T-shirts, shorts and flip-flops ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 16, 2010, 06:05:10 PM
Ha! If Barry had pointed the camera to one side, you would see a lot of Portuguese people who had gone up to the snowline especially to have snowball fights!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on March 17, 2010, 09:11:21 AM
Flowering here in the garden now is Narcissus romiuexii Flat Corona form
and in a frame Narcissus bulbocodium x romieuxii
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on March 17, 2010, 09:15:06 AM
Hi everyone - I'm back from my daffodil hunting trip on the AGS tour! Been busy watering/ photographing and pollinating my own plants since returning, but will subject you to my holiday photos when I've sorted them.
Meanwhile, here's a starter. (Scale Bear is 10cm high sitting down).

Anne,
Great start - I can hardly wait to have a look at the other species!

Gerd

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 17, 2010, 10:11:33 AM
Narcissus bulbocodium x romieuxii

A very nice clump Simon !!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on March 17, 2010, 10:13:43 AM
Thanks, Luc- it will be kicked out into the garden this year  ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 17, 2010, 06:57:06 PM
It is good to see your romieuxii outside, Simon. Here they would be eaten by slugs or battered by rain.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 17, 2010, 07:47:17 PM
Narcissus 'Topolino' from the garden a couple of days ago and in flower around the time it bloomed last year.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on March 17, 2010, 10:02:44 PM
At this time of year it's too cold for slugs and the snails are still in hibernation!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 18, 2010, 09:00:29 AM
Yes, Simon, I was wondering when they would appear - probably just as everything starts to green up  :o
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on March 18, 2010, 10:28:51 AM
The latest Bulb Log has prompted me to post some of the Narcissus in my bulbhouse.  No names but they give me great pleasure
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 18, 2010, 11:43:39 AM
It's a pleasure to see your success too Art - lots of beauties there  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 18, 2010, 11:53:31 AM
Art very nice,I look forward to seeing them on Monday.

Three of mine in flower

Narcissus longispathus
Narcissus bulbocodium
Narcissus cantabricus ssp monphyllus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on March 18, 2010, 01:38:02 PM
Tony

Seeing your cantabricus ssp. monophyllus and Ian's cantabricus in the Bulb Log reminds me I must get more - most of my Narcissus are yellow.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 18, 2010, 02:17:55 PM
Arthur surely your first two above are a lovely white?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on March 18, 2010, 04:20:57 PM
Arthur surely your first two above are a lovely white?

No - they are a very pale yellow.  :(
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 18, 2010, 08:35:04 PM
Arthur surely your first two above are a lovely white?

No - they are a very pale yellow.  :(
No, no, Art, they're cream   8) Or, if you are feeling very desginer-ish.... "winter white"  ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 19, 2010, 11:04:55 PM
They're very nice whatever they are! The cantab monophyllus is a beauty too.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 20, 2010, 04:03:31 PM
Narcissus alpestris from Mike Salmon many years ago

Narcissus alpestris ms 842
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on March 20, 2010, 04:12:49 PM
Tony - re: alpestris

This has to be the best of them all.

johnw
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 20, 2010, 06:13:09 PM
I simply love this Narcissus - so pure, so demure  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 20, 2010, 06:37:48 PM
Nice collection Art.

Tony your N. alpestris is a beauty.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 20, 2010, 07:32:35 PM
I agree - N. alpestris is a beauty, Willi.

I had once cv. N. moschatus but I lost it - I believe due narcissus fly.

Can somebody of the narcissus experts explain me the difference between N. alpestris and N. moschatus, please?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on March 20, 2010, 07:46:27 PM
Armin,

according to the chromosome weighing work of Ben Zonneveld,  they are one and the same.  Actually, they are N. pseudonarcissus ssp moschatus.  After reading and studying his paper, I agree with this analysis.  You can find a PDF on the ADS site. Here is a direct link.

http://www.daffodilusa.org/pdfs/systematicvalueofnucleardna.pdf
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 20, 2010, 08:05:31 PM
Thank you Jamie.
I'll study.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 20, 2010, 11:04:38 PM
An interesting paper which I have to say I struggle to understand but if I am correct then Narcissus serotinus occurs in N.Africa and Portugal with  miniatus in between? A strange anomaly, and no specimens from Turkey have been considered.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 20, 2010, 11:49:44 PM
Armin,

according to the chromosome weighing work of Ben Zonneveld,  they are one and the same.  Actually, they are N. pseudonarcissus ssp moschatus.  After reading and studying his paper, I agree with this analysis.  You can find a PDF on the ADS site. Here is a direct link.

http://www.daffodilusa.org/pdfs/systematicvalueofnucleardna.pdf
John Blanchard follows Pugsley &  Fernandes in  regarding N. moschatus & N. alpestris as distinct species on the basis of relatively  small morphological differences. Apparently N. moschatus is not known as a wild plant & at least some forms  appear to be sterile.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 21, 2010, 10:25:47 AM
I grew this plant from AGS seed in 2002. The resulting 2 seedlings were very different - one like the first picture and the other like the second. Number two is completely sterile, and  although the flower is rather big and blousy for such a short stem, it has a certain baroque appeal for me. What I'd like to know is - has anybody any ideas what it is? Do you think it may be eugenae crossed with some other species and if so what? The seed list doesn't specify whether the seed was wild collected or not. Maybe someone reading this was the seed donor?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 21, 2010, 10:28:42 AM
Wow Anne the second is stunning but looks nothing like my N eugenae but then mine could be wrong
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ian Y on March 21, 2010, 11:13:47 AM
That is a very interesting Narcissus Anne, looks like it could have some hoop-peticoat genes in its make up.


Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on March 21, 2010, 12:31:56 PM
An interesting paper which I have to say I struggle to understand but if I am correct then Narcissus serotinus occurs in N.Africa and Portugal with  miniatus in between? A strange anomaly, and no specimens from Turkey have been considered.



Tony,

the missing Turkish plants is a bit of a hole in the work, but, apparently none were available to analyse.  More the pity, as there may be distinct species/ssp. from this area.

The main difference between N. serotinus andN. miniatus is the ploidy, with the later being an ancient hybrid of N. elegans x serotinus.Although the N. serotinusspecimens used for the study came from North Africa and Portugal, the distribution of the species is much wider.  The biggest obstacle in my eyes, is that there is not enough collected material with provenance to truly map out full distribution of the species.  I've read of reports of N. serotinus from the entire Mediterranian down through Italy, while N. miniatus seems to be found only on the Iberian penensula.  Again, these reports are NOT accompanied by a genetic analysis, so we are back to square one.

What I particularly like about Zonneveld's paper, is that it reduces plants to their genetic affinities (genotypes), rather than their phaenotypes.  Botanically speaking, there are too many taxon described simply based on minor visual differences.  All good and well for the gardener who wants to see these minor differences, but, in the gene pool, they are less than drops in the bucket and do not merit the rank of species or subspecies.  As named varieties, preferably with some provenence, they certainly have their place, especially for the serious gardener.

In what I've studied under the microscope, which is certainly an amateur work, especially when compared to those with proper facilities, I am always amazed at how easy it is to find differences.  The difficult part is seeing the links that actually define definitions such as species.  If we were to simply concentrate on differences, every living thing could be considered a seperate, autart 'species', which would refute the entire system.  Of course, we come back to that fav question; 'what is a species'.

With the Narcissi, we are dealing with a group of plants that have been appreciated by man for many thousands of years, which complicates the matter even further.  How much of the current distribution is artificial? How many of these plants represent hybrids?  We may never know.  And, I must ask myself, how important is this knowledge?  many pictures are much more beautiful when they are not yet complete.

I'm as curious as the next person, though......
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on March 21, 2010, 12:45:45 PM
I grew this plant from AGS seed in 2002. The resulting 2 seedlings were very different - one like the first picture and the other like the second. Number two is completely sterile, and  although the flower is rather big and blousy for such a short stem, it has a certain baroque appeal for me. What I'd like to know is - has anybody any ideas what it is? Do you think it may be eugenae crossed with some other species and if so what? The seed list doesn't specify whether the seed was wild collected or not. Maybe someone reading this was the seed donor?

Anne,

the second one certainly looks to be a hybrid and, as you mentioned sterility, I would say the case is closed.  Now, what was the other parent?  One of the bulbocodium group would make sense, especially as they often have aberant chromosome numbers.  Only N. hedraeanthus  would seem unlikely to me, as it typically has 14 chromosomes and one would expect some fertility in the offspring.

Hopefully someone will report in as the donor.  In any case, a wonderful flower.  I hope you decide to propagate it!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 21, 2010, 02:55:30 PM

.....What I particularly like about Zonneveld's paper, is that it reduces plants to their genetic affinities (genotypes), rather than their phaenotypes.  Botanically speaking, there are too many taxon described simply based on minor visual differences.  All good and well for the gardener who wants to see these minor differences, but, in the gene pool, they are less than drops in the bucket and do not merit the rank of species or subspecies.  As named varieties, preferably with some provenence, they certainly have their place, especially for the serious gardener.
Well, Zonneveld did not analyse genotypes or characterise DNA. What he did was to measure the amount of DNA -"the nuclear DNA content" - in a large number of species. While this is interesting, its taxonomic significance is far from clear.

In what I've studied under the microscope, which is certainly an amateur work, especially when compared to those with proper facilities, I am always amazed at how easy it is to find differences.  The difficult part is seeing the links that actually define definitions such as species.  If we were to simply concentrate on differences, every living thing could be considered a seperate, autart 'species', which would refute the entire system.  Of course, we come back to that fav question; 'what is a species'.
Classical Linnaean taxonomy is not based on simple "differences" but on differences with respect to the 'essential' features which form the basis of the definitions of classes (species, genera etc). The problem comes with trying to identify these 'essential' features. In some cases this is possible in others difficult or impossible. In the latter case the logical structure of the Linnaean system inevitably leads to each individual being its own species. A 'biological/evolutionary' attempt to replace the Linnaean system raises different, but equally difficult problems.
As you say, we return to the question. "what is a species?"     
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on March 21, 2010, 03:31:17 PM

.....What I particularly like about Zonneveld's paper, is that it reduces plants to their genetic affinities (genotypes), rather than their phaenotypes.  Botanically speaking, there are too many taxon described simply based on minor visual differences.  All good and well for the gardener who wants to see these minor differences, but, in the gene pool, they are less than drops in the bucket and do not merit the rank of species or subspecies.  As named varieties, preferably with some provenence, they certainly have their place, especially for the serious gardener.
Well, Zonneveld did not analyse genotypes or characterise DNA. What he did was to measure the amount of DNA -"the nuclear DNA content" - in a large number of species. While this is interesting, its taxonomic significance is far from clear.

In what I've studied under the microscope, which is certainly an amateur work, especially when compared to those with proper facilities, I am always amazed at how easy it is to find differences.  The difficult part is seeing the links that actually define definitions such as species.  If we were to simply concentrate on differences, every living thing could be considered a seperate, autart 'species', which would refute the entire system.  Of course, we come back to that fav question; 'what is a species'.
Classical Linnaean taxonomy is not based on simple "differences" but on differences with respect to the 'essential' features which form the basis of the definitions of classes (species, genera etc). The problem comes with trying to identify these 'essential' features. In some cases this is possible in others difficult or impossible. In the latter case the logical structure of the Linnaean system inevitably leads to each individual being its own species. A 'biological/evolutionary' attempt to replace the Linnaean system raises different, but equally difficult problems.
As you say, we return to the question. "what is a species?"     

Gerry,

you're right, I shouldn't have refered to this as a genotype analysis, although, even using as simple a method as weighing the DNA content, remaining within a genus would allow for highly accurate comparisons, simply based upon DNA content.  Were this not the case, it would be a fruitless effort.  However, to say this does not characterize the DNA is dismissing the significace of such work, as it certainly does reflect qualities of the genome that must be present at any given DNA content.  If this is not the case, we need to completely rethink the genus!  To get the full picture, this is only the beginning.  A full chromosome analysis would be necessary.  I would think the greatest hinderance is, as always, the finanaces involved.

I must admit, I am not a fan of classic Linnean taxonomy.  It was developed in a time when science and religion were much too closely entwined.  It attempts to supperimpose rules that evolution knows little about.  I am a fan of reticulate evolution, which answers more questions by allowing more possibilities, but makes taxonomy even more difficult.  Still, we have a long way to go.  Even trying to categorize via genetic markers seems problematic, but, as with measuring DNA content, there must be a pattern.

again, how much do we need to know?  Fiascos, such as CITES, are based on completey untenable definitions of species and have managed to place more creatures on the verge of extinction that any other effort by man.  A complete disgrace, IMO.  But we don't ned to go there.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on March 21, 2010, 04:41:10 PM
A few narcissus species now in flower, all in the same large group of N. asturiensis relatives.
  Narcissus hispanicus var bujei
  Narcissus bicolor
  Narcissus radinganorum
  Narcissus pallidiflorus 
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 21, 2010, 05:55:30 PM
Narcissus obesus

From Monocot seed ex a Mike Salmon collection (MS451), W. Portugal.

The plant lives up to its name. The plant is  120mm tall while the flowers are 57mm.long with a corona of 34mm diam.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 21, 2010, 05:57:53 PM
Very nice LucS. I particularly like Narcissus hispanicus var bujei
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on March 21, 2010, 06:02:52 PM
Fine plants all.  That obesus has beautiful form & colour Gerry.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 21, 2010, 06:34:55 PM
They are all good ones - how tall are yours, LucS?
From the sublime to the ridiculous, I am fighting a running battle with large bumblebees in my bulb houses. Yes, I KNOW bees are our friends, but I'm hoping to have plants to show at Hexham, and no sooner do they open than the little ******s are drilling holes through the coronas to steal the nectar/pollen. It's driving me crazy! My latest ploy to thwart them (short of standing guard 24hrs a day) is a hairnet propped onto labels, but they are still getting through. Also the daffs push a bud through then open the flower on the other side. AAAArgh!!! >:( >:( >:( :'(
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 21, 2010, 07:06:21 PM
I had a bad bee today also who couldnt be a$$ed going in to a trumpet. She bit a hole at the base so I swatted her
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 21, 2010, 07:06:48 PM
Only joking  ;D

This is my N. pallidiflorus praecox
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 21, 2010, 07:13:09 PM
Anne I saw your Jim Lad at the NI Daffodil show today but you weren't the supplier. Are others allowed to twin it and sell it?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 21, 2010, 08:11:45 PM
Jamie and Gerry thanks for your replies/comments,I have found them most interesting.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 21, 2010, 08:29:58 PM
Anne I saw your Jim Lad at the NI Daffodil show today but you weren't the supplier. Are others allowed to twin it and sell it?
Sure - I'm just glad to see it appearing more. I wonder who supplied it then?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 22, 2010, 08:17:09 PM
Here are some I photographed today - firstly a lovely hybrid that Dave Toole sent me 3 years ago and flowering for the first time. Well worth the wait, I must ask him about its history.
(Maggi please tell me again how to insert the pix in the text? I will write it down somewhere I can't lose it this time, I promise.)
Next a pan of seedlings of N rupicola marvieri x rupicola watieri with lots of variation.
Next our very first daffodil, N rupicola, still a favourite and deliciously scented.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on March 22, 2010, 08:41:56 PM
Lovely, Anne.  I'm smitten by these rupicola hybrids.

Here are the first two in the garden, Snipe and Small Talk.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 22, 2010, 09:01:59 PM
Very nice Anne. N. rupicola (the species) is a beautiful plant - the perfect miniature daff.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 22, 2010, 09:19:29 PM
Super narcissus images.

Gerry, Jamie,
thanks for your comments on the moschatus vs. alpestris and your opinions on the DNA matter.
Complicated and partial controverse but some light in the dark tunnel in my amateur view.
Certainly the DNA report is a great work!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on March 22, 2010, 09:23:53 PM
Quote
N rupicola, still a favourite and deliciously scented.

Wow! A perfect miniature, the shape is absolutely gorgeous Anne  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on March 24, 2010, 01:45:49 PM
Beautiful plants, I would like to post some pictures, but It seems there is any problem with my account...
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 24, 2010, 02:57:54 PM
PM me with details of what your problem seems to be , Rafa..... I can see no reason why you cannot post photos, as you have in the past..... ???
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: tonyg on March 24, 2010, 06:26:41 PM
I grew this plant from AGS seed in 2002. The resulting 2 seedlings were very different - one like the first picture and the other like the second. Number two is completely sterile, and  although the flower is rather big and blousy for such a short stem, it has a certain baroque appeal for me. What I'd like to know is - has anybody any ideas what it is? Do you think it may be eugenae crossed with some other species and if so what? The seed list doesn't specify whether the seed was wild collected or not. Maybe someone reading this was the seed donor?
Anne - re the large pale N eugeniae.  I have something very similar, possible from the same source.  There are two forms in my pot, one almost identical to yours the other a much darker yellow, close to 'standard daff' but large flowered like the pale one.  I don't have the knowledge to tell you what it is though :(
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 24, 2010, 10:40:51 PM
I thought you were about to enlighten me there Tony.  ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on March 25, 2010, 04:54:55 AM
Stunning daffs, Anne - especially the marvieri-rupicula hybrids!

I add some pics from yesterday here

1.+2.  N. hedraeanthus x triandrus  (x cazorlanus) - wild occuring hybrid
3. N. hedraeanthus - a selection which opens with a hint of yellow and then turned to white
4. Narcissus x susannae (N. cantabricus x N. triandrus)

Gerd

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 25, 2010, 09:47:36 AM
Stunning Gerd, the white hedreanthus is beautiful.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 25, 2010, 01:40:14 PM
Stunning Gerd, the white hedreanthus is beautiful.

I can only agree with the above, Gerd !! Smashing !!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on March 25, 2010, 02:46:34 PM
I am trying to post some pictures in other  computer.

These are the parents

 Narcissus albicans
 N. bulbocodium
 N. cantabricus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on March 25, 2010, 02:50:17 PM
ok I see, it was a problem with my compute....

And the hybrids
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on March 25, 2010, 02:53:07 PM
and other hybrids and rare plants....


incurvicervicus
matritensis
lusus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 25, 2010, 02:54:14 PM
Hurrah!
[attach=1]
I  will not be the only person who is pleased to have your photos once more, Rafa! Thank you!!  8) :-*
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 25, 2010, 03:04:48 PM
Me too! Can you give the parentage of the hybrids, please Rafa? That last one is a very strange one!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 25, 2010, 03:06:35 PM
Welcome back Rafa !!!  ;D :D ;)

h3 of the hybrids is my clear favourite !!

Gracias !
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 25, 2010, 03:12:30 PM
Some astonishing photos, Rafa.
N. cantabricus x N. albicans is so beautiful with the cream pollen  :o 8)


 All are wonderful.... though ....lusus... is perhaps too strange a whim of nature , but interesting, none the less!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 25, 2010, 04:02:06 PM
Some astonishing photos, Rafa.
N. cantabricus x N. albicans is so beautiful with the cream pollen  :o 8)
Yes indeed!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 25, 2010, 04:32:00 PM
Some gorgeous Daffs over the last few days folks.

I particularly like Narcissus x susannae that Gers showed, and having seen Ian's pot full in the last Bulb Log that is certainly on my wants list.

Loved all of the hybrids Rafa and though Lusus had a lot of charm.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 25, 2010, 05:19:44 PM
I add some pics from yesterday here
1.+2.  N. hedraeanthus x triandrus  (x cazorlanus) - wild occuring hybrid
3. N. hedraeanthus - a selection which opens with a hint of yellow and then turned to white
4. Narcissus x susannae (N. cantabricus x N. triandrus)
Gerd

Gerd, super narcissus :o :o :o
the N. hedraeanthus x triandrus  (x cazorlanus) is wunderful 8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 25, 2010, 05:29:00 PM
Gerd and Rafa brilliant plants! Many I would give a good home to.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on March 25, 2010, 05:52:25 PM
The Lusus Narcissus is stunning, Rafa. Was it a one-off or an established population?
Can anyone confirm if this Narcissus fits with straight N.cyclamineus?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on March 25, 2010, 06:10:15 PM
Rafa,
amazing and stunning narcissus  :o 8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 25, 2010, 07:31:45 PM
Some of mine from the greenhouse today taken in the only dry half hour of the day, which co-incided with lunch being ready (and delayed) causing Mrs N. much displeasure ::)

The first three are all Brian Duncan's raising with two pics of each:-

Narcissus bulbocodium ex 02-143
N. citrinus Landes x golden obesus type (I think is how Brian worded it when I got the bulbs)
N. bulbocodium SEL 2847
N. assoanus
and the last two from Tony Willis
N. fernandesii var. cordubensis (have I got that right?)
N. hispanicus ssp. longispathus

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Hristo on March 25, 2010, 07:42:03 PM
Super thread all, great to see so much variety, David, love your Narcissus portraits.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 25, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Thank you Chris.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 25, 2010, 08:08:12 PM
Can anyone confirm if this Narcissus fits with straight N.cyclamineus?
I wonder. The flower looks right - similar to mine. But Blanchard describes the leaves as "spreading" which is the case with my plant. However, my plant is the only form I've seen & I don't know how much the species varies in this respect.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 25, 2010, 08:21:06 PM
We have cyclamineus in many forms from seed, mostly.... if the rain stops tomorrow I'll go investigate them!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 25, 2010, 08:33:24 PM
Emperor's Waltz, Norwester, Mitzy, Charles Warren x cyclamineus, Camborne, pallidiflorus
Fairy Gold, Mite, Candlepower, Candlepower x cyclamineus, lagoi O.P.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 25, 2010, 08:35:41 PM
the others


narcisus fairy gold
narcissus mite
narcissus candlepower
narcissus candlepower x cyclamineus.
Narcissus lagoi o.p.
Narcissus lagoi o.p.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on March 25, 2010, 10:34:52 PM
wow not bad guys, very interesting collections.

Annew I don't know dna count of both hybrids, I am currently studing this population and I will make an article.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 25, 2010, 10:53:53 PM
We await with interest, Rafa. David and Mark - very nice portraits! Norwester and Mitzy very nice.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 26, 2010, 09:19:10 AM
Wonderful show David and Mark !    :D :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: mark smyth on March 26, 2010, 10:36:40 AM
Narcissus hispanicus ssp longispathus - I have only seen this at Brian Duncan's. Very nice! Yellow N. bulbocodiums baffle me as much as single mark snowdrops.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 26, 2010, 07:11:51 PM
..................Yellow N. bulbocodiums baffle me as much as single mark snowdrops.

You're not alone mate ???

By the way you have some nice Daffs there.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 26, 2010, 09:44:25 PM
Narcissus Mite
Narcissus assoanus
Narcissus Rupicola
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Brian Duncan on March 28, 2010, 12:08:47 AM
Here's another of Brian Duncan's "babies" a seedling bulbocodium and Brian's notes that accompanied the bulbs said "may have some hedreanthus blood in it"

David,
It looks like the n. hedraeanthus pollen didn't take or had little influence. Sorry about that.
Brian
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: LucS on March 28, 2010, 08:31:36 AM
A late tazetta with us : Narcissus cupularis (syn. Narcissus tazetta ssp aureus) from AGS seedex.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on March 28, 2010, 08:59:28 AM
Rafa, that lusus is amazing.

Also lovely Mitzy and Mite, those miniature cyclamineus hybrids are definately my fav narcissus, of course along with the hoops.
Great pics guys, keep them coming.
My first hoops are starting to come up now, here in Dunners
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: FrazerHenderson on March 28, 2010, 05:47:20 PM
1&2 N.cyclamineus showing at RBGE Alpine garden today.

and from the RCHS show today:

3. "Itzim"
4. "x minicycla"
5. "Little Beauty"
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Darren on March 29, 2010, 08:19:10 PM
I've used this clump of N cyclamineus as a parent of hybrids. Obviously a seed has escaped into the now mostly dead (thanks to this winter) Rhododendron keiskei 'Yaku Fairy'.

The other parent is probably asturiensis, jacetanus or one of their hybrids with cyclamineus backcrossed.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: tonyg on March 29, 2010, 08:28:09 PM
One (sadly just the one) hybrid as a result of my crossing N cantabricus and N triandrus three years ago.
They are both in flower again today (just) so I'll try for a few more.
N x susannae.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on March 29, 2010, 10:53:40 PM
Very nice, Tony. Darren's cyclamineus seem to be beaming proudly at their offspring!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Brian Duncan on March 29, 2010, 11:45:12 PM
Gerry, thanks for that. It really is a struggle to ID most of the small Daffs perhaps it's time for a new monograph-any takers out there?
David,
Glad you raised this point. It's long past the time for a new Monograph - the RHS  is initiating an attempt to get such underway. The basic plans have been laid and already encouraging and very supportive consultations have taken place with Spanish botanists. It must be an international effort so there is much still to be done by way of consultation and co-operation with interested bodies. Funding will be the biggest problem in the current economic climate but this is being addressed. Amateur Societies will be asked to lend support in principle (and also some financial if possible) as this will aid the case being presented to potential funding sources. The Northern Ireland Daffodil Group has already committed a sum of £3,000 - a mere drip in the bucket, but as a very small society they are at least linking money to their keen support for the project.
Brian
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on March 30, 2010, 02:02:41 AM
a seed has escaped into the now mostly dead (thanks to this winter) Rhododendron keiskei 'Yaku Fairy'.

Darren    - I hope you don't mind if I respond to the above statement.  'Yaku Fairy' is rock hardy here in coastal Nova Scotia and has never in 30 or more years been winter-damaged. The same can be said for all other keiskeis with one exception, that being the very tall form which is tender.  My suspicion is if the soil is damp or wet enough for N. cyclamineus it might be too moist for YF.  It loves a high peat bed, even a scree, here in full sun.  A quick move might be in order.

Best

johnw  
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Darren on March 30, 2010, 08:16:56 AM
I don't mind at all John - thank you. It is in a raised peat bed in full sun, but might have been very wet at the root in winter due to our exceptionally wet november, also after 6 years the soil may be getting compacted. The reason I thought it was the cold was that the surviving portion is on the southwest side (sheltered from the cold northeast winds we got in Jan & feb). I will move it I think.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on March 30, 2010, 09:43:29 AM
Gerry, thanks for that. It really is a struggle to ID most of the small Daffs perhaps it's time for a new monograph-any takers out there?
David,
Glad you raised this point. It's long past the time for a new Monograph - the RHS  is initiating an attempt to get such underway. The basic plans have been laid and already encouraging and very supportive consultations have taken place with Spanish botanists. It must be an international effort so there is much still to be done by way of consultation and co-operation with interested bodies. Funding will be the biggest problem in the current economic climate but this is being addressed. Amateur Societies will be asked to lend support in principle (and also some financial if possible) as this will aid the case being presented to potential funding sources. The Northern Ireland Daffodil Group has already committed a sum of £3,000 - a mere drip in the bucket, but as a very small society they are at least linking money to their keen support for the project.
Brian

Thank you for that Brian and I hope fund raising efforts are successful.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on March 30, 2010, 10:21:02 AM
Gerry, thanks for that. It really is a struggle to ID most of the small Daffs perhaps it's time for a new monograph-any takers out there?
David,
Glad you raised this point. It's long past the time for a new Monograph - the RHS  is initiating an attempt to get such underway. The basic plans have been laid and already encouraging and very supportive consultations have taken place with Spanish botanists. It must be an international effort so there is much still to be done by way of consultation and co-operation with interested bodies. Funding will be the biggest problem in the current economic climate but this is being addressed. Amateur Societies will be asked to lend support in principle (and also some financial if possible) as this will aid the case being presented to potential funding sources. The Northern Ireland Daffodil Group has already committed a sum of £3,000 - a mere drip in the bucket, but as a very small society they are at least linking money to their keen support for the project.
Brian
An enterprising & welcome  project, though these are hardly the best of times in which to begin. I wish it every success.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on March 30, 2010, 01:40:01 PM
I don't mind at all John - thank you. It is in a raised peat bed in full sun, but might have been very wet at the root in winter due to our exceptionally wet november, also after 6 years the soil may be getting compacted. The reason I thought it was the cold was that the surviving portion is on the southwest side (sheltered from the cold northeast winds we got in Jan & feb). I will move it I think.

Darren

You may be correct, perhaps there was root loss from the compaction on the side of the plant that got cold/wind zapped.   I think it is one of the best Rhododendron species.

johnw   
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on March 30, 2010, 03:12:27 PM
I realise it is a diversion from Narcissus but I have two plants of Yaku Fairy and one is pristine and the other has been destroyed this winter by the weather.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ray on March 31, 2010, 09:34:01 AM
Flowering for me now N viridiflora,seems to be a lot earlier than usual. bye Ray
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on March 31, 2010, 09:44:26 AM
Flowering for me now N viridiflora,seems to be a lot earlier than usual. bye Ray
Does it flower every year for you then Ray?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ray on March 31, 2010, 10:22:15 AM
Hi Gail,this species flowers every year for me,but doesn't multiply very quickly or set seed for me bye Ray
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 31, 2010, 11:10:49 AM
Ray that is stunning my seed has just germinated so cross fingers i might one day get to see such a lovely thing.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Otto Fauser on March 31, 2010, 01:26:48 PM
Ray , for me Narc. viridiflorus never starts flowering before the middle of May , it increases quite nicely  -the hotter the summer ,the more prolific the flowering .

       Otto.

         
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on March 31, 2010, 07:21:55 PM
Otto, have you seen the Ferdie you sent us pictured in the show report here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5200.msg143555#msg143555

 And Mitimoto is in this week's Bulb Log, here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Mar311270042859BULB_LOG_13.pdf


  Thanks, Otto!!  :-*
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on April 01, 2010, 03:45:00 PM
a number of narcissus out at the moment.
Narcisus nobilis
Narcissus rupicola
Narcissus cordubensis
Narcissus bulbocodium ssp citrinus
Narcissus cantabricus ssp monophyllus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 01, 2010, 04:33:29 PM
A lovely selection Tony. Thanks for showing.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on April 02, 2010, 03:23:33 PM
Noticing that some of my narcissus had yellowing leaves an examination today has shown that all the tazetta and serotinus are dead, killed by the cold.

This may leave space for new plants but it is very disappointing as I have had some of them since 1986.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 02, 2010, 03:47:06 PM
Narcissus rupicola subsp. watieri
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on April 02, 2010, 04:02:48 PM
ooooo!  Such a pristine beauty.  :P  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 02, 2010, 04:42:37 PM
Gasp! It's glorious  :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on April 02, 2010, 09:09:29 PM
Quote
Gasp! It's glorious

This one isn't.

Lesley,this one is especially for you. ;D

Narcissus capex plenus.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 02, 2010, 09:19:44 PM
Thanks Michael. It's nice to know what to avoid!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on April 02, 2010, 09:51:16 PM
These two are more easy on the eye.

Narcissus bulbocodium.
Narcissus obesus X triandrus. Thanks Ann.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mark Griffiths on April 02, 2010, 09:51:34 PM
Yikes! It looks like some CGI alien.

I'm sure someone must love it.

(that's for the capex)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Otto Fauser on April 03, 2010, 12:01:14 PM
Otto, have you seen the Ferdie you sent us pictured in the show report here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5200.msg143555#msg143555

 And Mitimoto is in this week's Bulb Log, here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Mar311270042859BULB_LOG_13.pdf


  Thanks, Otto!!  :-*
Maggi , I'm delighted to hear that the Australian bred daffodils have already adjusted to the northern hemisphere rhythm and made it onto the showbenches .

          Happy Easter to you both ,
                    Otto.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on April 03, 2010, 07:16:00 PM
Narcissus alpestris from Cerler which is more creamy coloured than those from Casteljon de Sos (although they are variable).  It was once described as being a different species but they have all now been sunk into Narcissus pseudonarcissus ssp moschatus, until the next revision.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on April 04, 2010, 04:57:53 AM
Hi Michael, I think that capex is interesting and not ugly at all.
It sure would make the other narcissus near it look even better though  :P
Nice triandus cross;
Here in Dunedin I have all my hoops starting to pop through the surface, all but citrinus and nivalis.
I hope the weather there in Scotland has settled down a bit, still getting days in mid twenties here mind you then also days like to today-low teens
Keep the pics coming, anyone have Tinkerbell, I was given some this year and would like to see some pics so I can start salivating now, thanks
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 04, 2010, 04:39:22 PM
Narcissus bulbocodium var. tenuifolius

This name is not accepted by RBG Kew who regard it as a synonym of N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium.

This little plant is very floriferous.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 04, 2010, 06:04:40 PM
Lovely to see such a little beauty when it's nought degrees and a grey day in the Alps, thanks Gerry!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Sinchets on April 04, 2010, 08:46:51 PM
Flowering here now in the xeric garden is N.cordubensis (?)
Also flowering- but not quite here- are some Daffs we saw in an old rubbish tip in the lowlands. I am not sure if they are anything special, but they are different from the ones normally seen in gadens here.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ArnoldT on April 06, 2010, 05:05:52 PM
This was here when I moved into the house.

Any ideas?

Arnold
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on April 07, 2010, 04:59:38 PM
Flowering now - Narcissus 'Tracey' which will eventually reflex & fade to white.

johnw
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 07, 2010, 05:44:06 PM
Really lovely John...so elegant with that long trumpet  :)
It looks quite tall - is it?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on April 07, 2010, 08:00:42 PM
Really lovely John...so elegant with that long trumpet  :)
It looks quite tall - is it?

Robin  - It's not very tall, about 20 cm. max.

It is elegant, I just wish it didn't go through the yellow stage!

john
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on April 08, 2010, 03:51:02 AM
Flowering for me now N viridiflora,seems to be a lot earlier than usual. bye Ray
Ray,
our Narcissus viridiflorus only started on April 2nd,
[attachthumb=1]

and are now in full bloom,
[attachthumb=2]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on April 09, 2010, 09:43:09 AM
Fabulous, Fermi - they look like they're in a howling gale!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Roma on April 10, 2010, 08:39:12 PM
Flowering now from SRGC Seed Ex. , sown in January 2007. 
Narcissus rupicola ssp marvieri x watieri
Does this look correct?  I have watieri flowering just now but do not have any yellow rupicola to compare.  Must remedy that soon!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 10, 2010, 09:37:21 PM
Roma - looks probable to me. It seems to have the large corona characteristic of N. marvieri while the yellow is somewhat paler than my N. rupicola - not open yet. It is very attractive.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on April 10, 2010, 10:30:21 PM
It looks just right, Roma.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on April 13, 2010, 01:09:10 AM
A daffodil in flower here and which is very common on the French shore of Nova Scotia.  Locals say it has been grown in that area for more than 100-150  years.  I guess it is Narcissus 'Van Sion' (aka 'Telemonius Plenus') but would appreciate any counter offers.  It shows no sign of decreasing in vigour after all those years.  Lesley must be having 50 fits.  I am no fan but have to admire a daffodil that spreads so rapidly without problems; I have to admit I don't mind it in its green phases.

johnw
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Regelian on April 13, 2010, 07:50:56 AM
John,

that is 'Van Sion' (telemonius plenus).  It is quite strange, as the flowers are inconsistent.  Some more filled than others and often with a different filled arrangement.  I have a small patch of them, which I consider my historic curiosity. 

jamie
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: olegKon on April 14, 2010, 04:51:59 PM
The first narcissus flowering here is always N.asturiensis
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Roma on April 14, 2010, 10:05:30 PM
One of my favourite daffs flowering in the frame.
Narcissus 'Jenny'
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 15, 2010, 09:25:30 AM
You have just reminded me about this lovely creamy Narcissus, Roma, is it easily available?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on April 15, 2010, 06:02:23 PM
some species in flower at the moment

Narcissus cordubensis
Narcissus abscissus
Narcissus pallidiflorus
Narcissus alpestris two forms
Narcissus poeticus
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 15, 2010, 08:59:34 PM
Narcissus assoanus

The sparse flowering suggests this did not receive a sufficient bake last summer.

This is the last of the Narcissus species to flower here. The first was a form of N. romieuxii on Oct 26th. Not  bad for a single genus.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on April 16, 2010, 12:09:19 AM
A fine series Tony.  That alpestris is exceptional I think.

Well at least your assoanus flower trumps my foliage Gerry ;D

'Zit' 'Xit' is almost the last here & a favourite of mine, although usually I prefer species over hybrids.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on April 16, 2010, 03:14:14 AM
Tony - Again N. alpestris is a knockout.

Ashley - Zit is as well.  Is it available yet?

johnw
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 16, 2010, 09:54:36 AM
Ashley & John - shouldn't 'Zit' be 'Xit'?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on April 16, 2010, 10:04:35 AM
I agree Gerry it should be "Xit". Lovely show folks it's hard to tell if my Narcissus have come to the end of their run or if they are are simply suffering from lack of attention over the last couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on April 16, 2010, 12:07:33 PM
Ashley & John - shouldn't 'Zit' be 'Xit'?

Yes of course 'Xit' is; thanks Gerry.
Senior moment :-[
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on April 16, 2010, 01:10:43 PM
I'm enjoying all your beautiful narcissi, everyone. Here are a few from me:
N. pallidiflorus only flowers for me planted out in a cool position in the garden. It doesn't seem to like being in a pot.

[attachthumb=1]
narcissus pallidiflorus

A couple of late flowering hybrids, triandrus x obesus and triandrus x watieri.
[attachthumb=2]
obesus x triandrus

[attachthumb=3]
triandrus x watieri

This is a bit tall at 25cm for a pot, although it is a bit drawn - maybe better outside - pallidiflorus x watieri

[attachthumb=4]
pallidiflorus x watieri

[attachthumb=5]
pallidiflorus x watieri
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on April 16, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
Well that didn't go according to plan - the info under each photo has disappeared. Help!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 16, 2010, 02:54:07 PM
Ashley & John - shouldn't 'Zit' be 'Xit'?
Yes of course 'Xit' is; thanks Gerry.
Senior moment :-[

Ashley - I've been thinking for a long time about acquiring 'Xit' - it looks very attractive -  but was put off when I read somewhere that the plant grows disproportionately  tall for the size of the flowers. What is your opinion & what is the height of your plants?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on April 16, 2010, 03:09:51 PM
Well I deserved to be made eat my words Anne ;) ;D   Your hybrids are wonderful, all of them.

Gerry, yes 'Xit' is tall (30-35 cm with me) but not disproportionately so I think since the flowers are a good size (c. 3.5-4 cm diameter).  The green eye also gives it elegance in my opinion.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on April 16, 2010, 08:26:37 PM
Xit's sister 'Segovia', with a yellow cup, grows to 12" in a pot under glass, but only 7" outside where it is nicely in scale with the flowers.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on April 17, 2010, 09:06:28 AM


I'm enjoying all your beautiful narcissi, everyone. Here are a few from me:
N. pallidiflorus only flowers for me planted out in a cool position in the garden. It doesn't seem to like being in a pot.

(Attachment Link)
narcissus pallidiflorus

A couple of late flowering hybrids, triandrus x obesus and triandrus x watieri.
(Attachment Link)
obesus x triandrus

(Attachment Link)
triandrus x watieri

This is a bit tall at 25cm for a pot, although it is a bit drawn - maybe better outside - pallidiflorus x watieri

(Attachment Link)
pallidiflorus x watieri

(Attachment Link)
pallidiflorus x watieri



Anne,
These are hybrids of exceptional beauty  - especially the combination watieri x triandrus!

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 17, 2010, 11:30:55 AM
Anne, I love your N.pallidiflorus x watieri -the texture is shown off so well in your photos  :)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 17, 2010, 06:20:01 PM
I've had such difficulty trying to photograph Narcissus as a part of the image always seems to flare.  Today I tried a different setting and these are two small Narcissus just opening - Minnow smelling wonderful   :D

N. tazetta Minnow
N. cyclamineus Jack snipe
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on April 18, 2010, 09:45:14 PM
Those are lovely - especially against the blue sky, so natural.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Michael J Campbell on April 18, 2010, 10:11:25 PM
Narcissus chiva 7yy
Narcissus rikki 7wy
Narcissus flomay 7w-wwp
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 19, 2010, 09:17:23 AM
Those are lovely - especially against the blue sky, so natural.

Thanks for your encouragement Anne - N. cyclamineus Jack snipe are slowly spreading down the ridge of the bank with mountains and sky in background
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on April 19, 2010, 12:07:07 PM
Narcissus 'Segovia' is a really sweet little thing, one flower on my bulbs has decided to be semi-double.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: olegKon on April 20, 2010, 01:57:03 PM
I got some bulbs of Narcissus romieuxii and tried them outside. It successfully survived winter under snow and now the first one is flowering with two more to follow. As I'm new to this type of narcissi, could pundits confirm the name. Shall I keep it completely dry in summer?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 20, 2010, 02:00:59 PM
Narcissus 'Segovia' is a really sweet little thing, one flower on my bulbs has decided to be semi-double.


Gail, what a perfect way to show these gorgeous little N. 'Sergovia' in a cute basket on the wall - the double in CU is dreamy - are those strawberry leaves  ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on April 20, 2010, 02:14:29 PM
Gail, what a perfect way to show these gorgeous little N. 'Sergovia' in a cute basket on the wall - the double in CU is dreamy - are those strawberry leaves  ::)
Yes, strawberry 'Marshmallow' - very good flavour but as the basket is close to the front door the strawberries don't last long!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 20, 2010, 02:23:01 PM
 ;D :P
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on April 20, 2010, 02:47:38 PM
I got some bulbs of Narcissus romieuxii and tried them outside. It successfully survived winter under snow and now the first one is flowering with two more to follow. As I'm new to this type of narcissi, could pundits confirm the name. Shall I keep it completely dry in summer?
Certainly this little cutie is N. romieuxii, Oleg.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 20, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
I got some bulbs of Narcissus romieuxii and tried them outside. It successfully survived winter under snow and now the first one is flowering with two more to follow. As I'm new to this type of narcissi, could pundits confirm the name. Shall I keep it completely dry in summer?
Certainly this little cutie is N. romieuxii, Oleg.
Oleg - I agree with Maggi.  I keep my plants completely dry & warm during the summer.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: olegKon on April 20, 2010, 08:16:11 PM
Thanks, Maggi and Gerry. Have you ever tried it outside?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on April 20, 2010, 08:44:00 PM
Thanks, Maggi and Gerry. Have you ever tried it outside?

Oleg - no, never; difficult to keep dry in summer.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: olegKon on April 21, 2010, 04:19:41 PM
Thank you for answering, Gerry. So I'll do the same as with many frits, digging them up to store in dry warm sand for summer.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on April 22, 2010, 11:07:12 AM
Looks like the first to flower for me this year will be cantabricus, all ready a few nice buds showing-pretty sure this is quite early for her in Dunedin.
We have had some pretty good weather lately and there are rumours of water restrictions, as mentioned previously though thats how the hoops like to have spent the Summer-quite dry. I have them in the garden here.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on April 28, 2010, 09:07:33 PM
A fairly random selection of my daffodils;

'Canaliculatus'
Chiva
Sir Winston Churchill
Rugulosus Flore Pleno
Fruit Cup
Thalia
Pipit
Phantom
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on April 29, 2010, 01:26:42 AM
A fairly random selection of my daffodils;

'Canaliculatus'
Chiva
Sir Winston Churchill
Rugulosus Flore Pleno
Fruit Cup
Thalia
Pipit
Phantom

Hi Gail,
that's a great flowering on N. canaliculatus! What's your secret?

"Pipit" is one of my faves, too!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on April 29, 2010, 07:03:11 AM

Hi Gail,
that's a great flowering on N. canaliculatus! What's your secret?

"Pipit" is one of my faves, too!
cheers
fermi
No secret - I planted two clumps out, one has totally disappeared, the pictured bulbs have been there nearly 10 years without increasing.  It's sunny and dry where they are.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on April 30, 2010, 02:26:40 PM
Caught in the evening sun a new group of Narcissus Jack Snipe looking paper thin
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on May 05, 2010, 12:22:58 PM
Narcissus poeticus opening now.

Has anyone ever been to the Valley of the Narcissi in the Ukraine? Sounds rather wonderful....
http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/index2.php?param=pgs20051/104
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Anthony Darby on May 05, 2010, 10:59:56 PM
Here is Narcissus 'Bilbo' flowering now and as it was on 30/4.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ArnoldT on May 06, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
Narcissus poeticus flowering today in New Jersey.

Arnold
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on May 08, 2010, 08:27:00 AM
Hi, update from Dunedin, NZ. Cantabricus flowering and romieuxii, monophyllus, taffeta, clusii and Julia Jane all have buds.
Weather is fine for next few days so I expect a bit more progress as well with seedlings, I can not believe how big some of my second year bulbocod seedlings are.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on May 08, 2010, 10:19:52 AM
You have a lot to look forward to there, by the sounds of it, Kees!
It is very saytisfying how soon well grown narcissus babies will fatten up... well done on your young bulbos!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: goatshed on May 13, 2010, 12:12:41 PM
Having just come back from a short trip round the Alps & Provence, I thought I'd share this field of wild daffs. We came across a valley in the Auvergne with just miles and miles of wild narcissi. Lovely to look at, but can't be much fun for the farmers.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on May 13, 2010, 02:04:32 PM
Beautiful Gill, thanks for posting
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on May 13, 2010, 04:25:32 PM
Beautiful Gill. On the back of John Blanchard's book Narcissus there is a photo of an enormous population of  N. pseudonarcissus in the Auvergne. I wonder if you found the same population?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: goatshed on May 13, 2010, 04:40:31 PM
Possibly, though there seems to be a vast area where they are common, so there may well be other valleys like that. They do seem to like it wet, and there's a large amount of rainfall there :) It's wet here too, but I only have a solitary one growing near the barn.

Edited to confirm - we went back to a different area of the Auvergne yesterday, and every valley seems to be the same - full of daffodils. Spring is very late there, we stopped for a picnic in the car and it snowed. No orchids though except for o.mascula :( some lovely deep purple violas on the mountainsides though (no photos - too cold!).
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: FrazerHenderson on May 18, 2010, 10:39:18 PM
Here are a few shots of the sturdiest narcissus available, which I recently found at the Southport Botanic Gardens.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on May 19, 2010, 05:07:29 AM
Here are a few shots of the sturdiest narcissus available, which I recently found at the Southport Botanic Gardens.
Frazer,
it looks like it has an iron constitution...not to mention a sturdy gait!
 ;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on May 20, 2010, 08:06:54 AM
Hi, update from Dunedin, NZ. Cantabricus flowering and romieuxii, monophyllus, taffeta, clusii and Julia Jane all have buds.


Like Kees, our first daff of the "winter/spring" types is a hoop - possibly "Nylon"
[attachthumb=1]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on May 24, 2010, 10:38:43 AM
Very nice Fermi, I have Taffeta out now.
My cantabricus clusii have increased from 6 flowers last season to 14 and counting this year, will like quite nice when flowering-I will try to remember to post a pic, also have 40 seedlings of clusii as well. Its unusual as my cantabricus foliosus appear to have simply divided into non flowering sized bulbs in the same conditions.
I really like the hoops, keep posting pics people.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on May 25, 2010, 11:40:08 AM
I have lots of open pollinated seeds from my pots of assorted seedlings of N. rupicola marvieri x watieri (see pic below of variation). The results from these seeds are likely to give a nice variety of small daffodils with short cups in different combination of white through to yellow. Would anyone like to have some fun with them?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on May 27, 2010, 09:15:29 AM
The weather here has been, well awful for the last week and now snow hit the hill areas.
I have not been able to get out to photograph the latest hoops that are out, I will when I can and post a pic.
I just hope the continuous rain does not ruin the blooms.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on May 28, 2010, 10:55:00 AM
The weather is not supposed to clear for a while so I brought in some of the flowering hoops, took some pics. They are not the best but I hope it makes others post what they have flowering in the southern hemisphere at present.
Anyway here are a pic of Taffeta and cantabricus clusii.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on June 06, 2010, 10:49:01 AM
Well here are some more pics, updated from last time.
And my little apprentice enjoying helping his dad.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on June 06, 2010, 10:58:23 AM
Grand daffs and a really cute apprentice, Kees. So much fun to see him lending a hand....but keeping going with the biscuit at the same time... a boy after my own heart!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on June 06, 2010, 11:10:28 AM
Great to see your budding apprentice Kees and good to see he can multi task - your pot of daffs is 8) really lovely too
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on June 06, 2010, 07:13:22 PM
Lovely Kees, both of 'em ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on June 06, 2010, 08:38:20 PM
Awww..Cute  ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: bulborum on June 11, 2010, 11:43:48 PM
I found some last year pictures I forgot to send in
Narcissus pallidiflorus RGB and
Narcissus pallidiflorus flore pleno RGB

Roland
Title: Narcissus in the Southern Hemisphere 2010
Post by: Paul T on June 17, 2010, 08:43:51 AM
A couple of the N. bulbocodium types that we have in flower here at the moment....

Narcissus cantabricus ssp cantabricus and an old one that I have had for years which I am not sure of the name of.  Always the first to flower for me every year when it flowers.  Could be 'Nylon' I guess, but no idea for sure either way. 

Narcissus romieuxii var Rifanus JWB 89-23 (I think I got the name right this year, I had it incorrectly spelled last year but hope I have it right this time?) is in full flower right now, and I also have Narcissus 'Fyno' in flower now as well (I can post a pic if wanted).

I hope this doesn't upset people by my posting Southern Hemisphere stuff in the main Narcissus topic.  I think I recall it being a problem at times in the past, but I wasn't sure it was worthwhile starting a new topic or not?  If wanted to, moderators can feel free to split this off into a new topic if they'd like.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on June 17, 2010, 08:46:16 AM
And some of my "Autumn Colour Strain" jonquilla/tazetta type seedlings that I post every year.  Some have been in flower for weeks now, while others are just opening.  Very cool to always have them early each year, regardless of the season.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: bulborum on June 17, 2010, 09:31:39 AM
Nice white N.bulbocodium Paul

good to see in summer here some daffs
it looks if the winter is far away
If you have some spare seeds later
you can make me happy

Roland
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on June 17, 2010, 10:19:50 AM
Keep the pics coming Paul, I love to see your hoops.
Wonder when mini daffs will post a pic  :P  ;D

Hopefully in a week or so I will have some more hoops out to show, we have had frosts the last few days and of course the nice sunny, but freezing, days that the frosts bring sure bring on the hoops.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on June 17, 2010, 10:28:28 PM
Very nice daffs, Paul. Good to get my daff fix while mine are resting. Your autumn colour strain is very pretty. Did you breed them yourself?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on June 17, 2010, 11:32:10 PM
Anne,

No, they were seed from a guy in America who was crossing all his earliest autumn flowering types.  So far there have been at least 7 different colour variants.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on June 18, 2010, 08:02:57 AM
Great show Paul !!!
(Nice to have you back, by the way !  8))
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on June 21, 2010, 11:05:24 AM
Well I thought I would do some pics and post.
Thank you Lesley for the Atlas Gold last year, they have really multiplied in a year, I have 10 buds in one pot and 8 currently in the other, I just hope that citrinus has done the same, these two are among my favourite of the hoops-along with the perfectly formed Taffetta and the cantabricus whites.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on June 21, 2010, 08:09:10 PM
Lovely to see all the SH Daffs.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on June 26, 2010, 08:48:52 AM
Just for an update from my last post.
My Atlas Gold now have 10 and 14 buds in the two pots, this seems a fantastic increase from the 4 flowers in each last year. Not quite sure why as I simply had them in the garden and they did not have a dry summer which is what they are supposed to like. I might seperate them after they seed and experiment with keeping some completely dry and others in the weather.
All my narcissus have popped their heads up now except for Gambas and Bell song, even the poeticus are up-seems to be a strange season with many of the hoops a month ahead of where they were last year and yet the Wee gems and Gambas have been very slow.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on June 29, 2010, 03:42:02 PM
Very nice, Kees.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 08, 2010, 10:04:51 AM
Still frosty in the mornings here.
Narcissus "Tarlatan"
[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on July 09, 2010, 08:41:21 AM
Very nice Fermi, lovely clump.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on July 10, 2010, 09:38:16 AM
The Atlas Gold look a bit better now so an updated pic, and my first ever cyclamineus bud-seems quite early for this one and I note that my other cyclamineus bulbs have not even started to show above the ground yet.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 12, 2010, 01:57:45 AM
Kees,
nice potful of "Atlas Gold"!
My earliest "yellow" hoop is "Galligaskins" which was raised by Glenbrook Bulb Farm in Tassie>
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on July 12, 2010, 07:21:53 AM
That is a very nice specimen, not sure if its here in NZ.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on July 13, 2010, 01:35:51 PM
Fermi,

Both of those have started opening here as well, although for yellow varieties... "Twenty Fiver" was first, and then some seedling romieuxii that I got from a friend years ago.  They're great form, and I love them dearly, even with no names on them.  ;D

Great pics too, Kees. 8)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 14, 2010, 01:38:48 AM
That is a very nice specimen, not sure if its here in NZ.
Hi Kees,
Marcus Harvey may be able to supply it - have a talk to Lesley.
This is what I have as "Jessamy"
[attachthumb=1]

And what I received as Narcissus bulbocodium var. graellsii
[attachthumb=2]

Yes, Paul, ALL N. romieuxii seedlings seem to be worth growing ;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on July 15, 2010, 01:40:32 AM
Fermi,

Nice!  I've not seen 'Jessamy' before, but the graellsii is very different to what I grow as that.  Mine has very small flowers (something I love about it), which are very neat and clean.  I'm sure I've posted pics of it here before.  Not in flower here yet, as it is fairly late for me generally.  Where does 'Jessamy' originate from?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 15, 2010, 04:36:50 AM
Fermi,

Nice!  I've not seen 'Jessamy' before, but the graellsii is very different to what I grow as that.  Mine has very small flowers (something I love about it), which are very neat and clean.  I'm sure I've posted pics of it here before.  Not in flower here yet, as it is fairly late for me generally.  Where does 'Jessamy' originate from?
Paul,
I got "Jessamy" from Will Ashburner before he became the proprietor of Hancocks Daffodils as he was a member of our local AGS group. It was raised by Douglas Blanchard from N. romieuxii x N. cantabricus var. foliosus about 60 years ago! There should be a few spare - if you remind me at the right time!
I can't be sure where I got N.b.graellsiii but I've been unsure of its identity as James Wells says it should be late (as yours is) while this always flowers early here.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on July 15, 2010, 06:13:35 AM
N pachybolbus flowering on June 14 this year.I meant to try to put its pollen onto papyraceus this year, but that will have to wait another season.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on July 15, 2010, 07:40:28 AM
Fermi.
Don't be to disappointed that it may not be graelsii, it still looks very nice and very small, might be a cross with one of the cantabricus group which causes it to emerge early. Also just think no one else may have that particular flower and get to appreciate it like you can first hand.
I have had a good take with my hoop seedlings, can not wait the 3 years or so for the first flowers to see any variation-all were cross pollinated. However saying that none of my 80 citrinus seeds have germinated yet-or atleast no seedlings have popped above the gravel, hope they do I love that plant. It is a later plant so I still have my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on July 15, 2010, 11:06:07 AM
Fermi,

Yes please on the Jessamy.  I have plenty to send you a graellsii of mine in return too..... so you can do a direct comparison of them.  Yours does look to be quite small as well, doesn't it?  I think the tiny ones can be quite fascinating, even if you do have to look a little closer to see them.  ;D  the graellsii and 'Twenty Fiver' are the only two I have that I would class as small varieties, or at least significantly smaller anyway.  'Galligaskins' is smaller than many of them, but not as small as those two.

Oh yeah.... thank you for the parcel that arrived today of seed etc.... it was a bit of a surprise as I wasn't expecting anything.... or was I and I'd forgotten?  :-[

Paul,

The little pachybulbus has been flowering here for weeks to.  Great little plant, although you can miss the flowers if you aren't looking for them.  I imagine they'll be quite impressive in a large clump, but the couple of stems that I have definitely don't exactly make a huge statement.  ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on July 19, 2010, 08:12:36 AM
Paul T--I don't really know why I give space to N pachybolbus.

Anyway, here are two quite nice seedlings flowering now, both siblings from N. bulbocodium var. conspicuus X mitimoto.
01-441#1
01-441#2

regards Paul R
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: bulborum on July 19, 2010, 08:18:58 AM
Nice ones Paul
very good shape for the 01-441#1

Roland
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on July 19, 2010, 08:40:36 AM
Thank you Roland.
#2 is more like the typical conspicuus, but #1 also fits in within the range of conspicuus.Very happy with these two seedlings and have brought them in under cover for pollination.
Mitimoto is itself 50% conspicuus and was bred by the Squire o' Glenbrook.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on July 19, 2010, 01:06:01 PM
Paul,

Both very nice shapes, particularly #1.  I don't know conspicuus.  Do you have a photo?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on July 19, 2010, 07:09:41 PM
Yes number 1 is very nice!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: ashley on July 19, 2010, 09:09:00 PM
Thanks all.  Great to see these lovely SH daffs while enduring 'summer' here ;D

Fine hybrids Paul, especially the first one I think. Do its corolla segments remain green on the outside as the flower matures?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on July 22, 2010, 10:33:03 AM
Thanks for your comments Paul, Anne and Ashley.
Paul T. I don't have any pictures of conspicuus, nor do I have any named hybrid bulbicodiums or species, except Olumbo.I left them all behind when I moved  :'(, only bringing my own seedlings.James Wells has some good pictures in his book of some of the forms of conspicuus.
Ashley, I've waited a few days to get another picture of 01 441 #1 showing how the colour ages in the sepals-a quite nice bi-colour.From the back, there is still a green stripe visible.The other picture is the 3rd seedling from the cross, the sepals are wider and the corona is less wavey.
01 441#3
01 441#1 on left, #3 on right.
Regards Paul R
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on July 22, 2010, 10:40:02 AM
Paul,

Both of them really are stunners.

As to named varieties..... if you are wanting some at the end of the season let me know.  Many of those already posted by Fermi I grow, plus a heap more which hopefully I'll post pics of from time to time as I get the time (and the light) to photograph them.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on July 22, 2010, 02:31:37 PM
For those who don't know the parent, Mitimoto, I thought it would be useful to show a pic. You can see the mouth of the corona is constricted compared to Paul's seedlings.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on July 23, 2010, 08:41:49 AM
Thanks Anne for posting the picture of Rod Barwick's (Glenbrook Bulb Farm) ''Mitimoto''.This seedling of his is a show winner world wide and it looks as though it will go on to be an excellent breeder also.
BTW Anne, I just checked out your web site, great pictures and some choice offerings.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on July 23, 2010, 07:10:06 PM
Lovely set of seedlings there Paul R.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Ragged Robin on July 24, 2010, 02:27:46 PM
I agree, there is plenty of plant alchemy happening in your 'Handkerchief' garden Paul R
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on July 24, 2010, 10:52:32 PM
Shame we can't swap, Paul  :(. But I also have a pan of seedlings from Mitimoto selfed, so having seen your lovelies, I'll be interested to see the results when they flower.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on July 25, 2010, 10:55:17 AM
Lots of buds showing now, hope to have a good blooming season-in both respects of the word :P
Here is a view of the outside of the glasshouse, and some of the seedlings.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on July 25, 2010, 11:13:58 AM
 :)
Hi
Like Paul T our season has been in progress for some time now but much more is starting to flower now. We have had our best rainfall in 15 years and a very warm autumn so our daffodils are very confused. N. cypri and N. pachybolbus are both flowering many weeks ahead of normal. Unusual flowering patterns also means unusual hybridising opportunities for us.
Mondieu is an excellent giant bulbocodium. While we have had some cold days in July, yesterday and today were both sunny and with no frost.
Graham
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on July 25, 2010, 11:22:25 AM
 :)Hi
A few more photos.
Graham
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on July 25, 2010, 11:25:53 AM
 ;D
Hi
This is our early flowering giant bulbocodium hybrid that is about the same size as Mondieu.
Graham
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on July 25, 2010, 07:19:03 PM
N. jacetanus is a favourite of mine - such a perfect little daffodil.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on July 27, 2010, 10:08:55 AM
Great to see you pics Graham, I have been waiting for these.
Cant wait to see your cyclamineus hybrids, if I can get my finances sorted I might be able to purchase something in the future from you if Lesley or other kiwis are making a purchase.
I note you have said a w-w seedling quite clearly looks like the w-y, I take it this fades out white like snipe.
Keep posting, my first ever cyclamineus opened last night-seems early and will keep pollen to cross with other minatures, will try to pollinate tinkerbell, dovewings and maybe even golden snipe if possible.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on July 27, 2010, 04:13:00 PM
Graham, I join with Anne, N. jacetanus is lovely.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on July 30, 2010, 08:51:56 AM
Thanks for your comments David, Robbin and Anne.
These are some of my seedlings that I'm breeding with at the moment to get colour.
Sdl 01 379A#1 is a strongly coloured W-0, which I'm using in my programme for miniature  Div 6 W-R and W-O. It is just 55mm--5mm too big.I may have the first seedlings flowering from 379A#1 later this year. :)
Sdls 01 370#1 and 01 371#1 are intermediate size and both are seedlings from Jetfire x Nanty and Mite.Both are very smooth with broad overlapping petals.Also a picture of some miniature seedlings showing red/orange to some extent in their trumpet.
Best of luck with your Mitimoto seedlings Anne, it's a damn good flower.
Paul R
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on July 30, 2010, 08:59:39 AM
And a few other seedlings struttin' their stuff :)
Paul R
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on July 30, 2010, 10:37:12 AM
Nice babies, Paul..... especially like the W-O , that has a strong "personality" to my eye.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on August 01, 2010, 12:02:03 PM
I like the look of the one at the back of the pot of seedlings too. And I'm always a sucker for the strongly reflexed cyclamineus types like the bicolour in your last group.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 02, 2010, 01:01:46 AM
Some nice seedlings coming along, Paul.
A couple of "species" in the garden:
Narcissus x intermedius
[attachthumb=1]

Narcissus cordubensis
[attachthumb=2]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on August 08, 2010, 09:31:36 AM
Things are really starting move with the daffodils, buds about to open everywhere.
This is the only one that has actually opened. A pseudonarcisuus, is this whats called the Lent Lady?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 08, 2010, 10:51:12 AM
 ;D
Hi
Our cyclamineus hybrids are starting to flower in large numbers now. A lot of the dry program seedlings are flowering much earlier than normal. We have an N. assoanus flowering some 6 weeks early and an early form of NTT is about to flower some 4 weeks early.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 08, 2010, 10:55:26 AM
 ;D
Hi
Some species that are flowering.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 08, 2010, 10:59:04 AM
 ;D
Hi
More species.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on August 09, 2010, 09:49:50 AM
Graham those cyclamineus hybrids have me salivating, I am thoroughly enjoying your hard work. Fantastic.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 09, 2010, 09:59:00 AM
 ;D
Hi
Kees we have been doing our hybridising for a long while and in large quantities so the chances of getting good ones is much higher. Having said that if you choose parents carefully you can achieve the same success doing a lot fewer crosses. Out of the flowers posted one of the more interesting is the small intermediate 1Y-Y. It has good petal coverage and is quite short yet sturdy. Ideal for pot cultivation. Paul, those 6Y-R seedlings look good. It is an area where we need to do more work. We have flowered an excellent 6Y-O but I think it may have gone to daffodil heaven. Very unusual since we don't lose much once we get them to flowering size.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 09, 2010, 10:01:41 AM
 ;D
Hi
A few more photos.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 09, 2010, 10:08:27 AM
 ::)
Hi
Oops!! Looks like I missed posting the intermediate 1Y-Y. It grows in the pot of intermediates.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 13, 2010, 05:13:25 AM
I've posted some pics of our daffs in the Southern Hemisphere Thread:http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5839.30 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5839.30)
 See replies 27 and 32.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 31, 2010, 11:21:05 AM
 ;D
Hi
Not as many photos as in previous years. We have moved house - the move was only 50 metres but it is the same as moving several miles. Anyway we are now fully ensconsed in our new house.
Some things have flowered very early but some things have been slowed up by a late cold snap.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 31, 2010, 11:26:59 AM
 ;D
Hi
I have spent the day hybridising and taking photos so you will get to see some interesting seedlings. However this lot of photos is of species. I have been using the N. cordubensis with lots of petal coverage to do some sterile hybrid crosses. I don't tend to do many sterile crosses but with lots of miniatures it will interesting to see what we get from crossing N. cordubensis with some of our fertile miniature hybrids.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 31, 2010, 11:30:57 AM
 ;D
Hi
First lot of photos of hybrids.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 31, 2010, 11:35:37 AM
 ;D
Hi
Our second lot of photos of hybrids. The micro mini is a stunning little flower.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on August 31, 2010, 11:56:34 AM
 ;D
Hi
This set of photos includes our 6A-A flower. It is probably just a little too big for miniature even though it its stem is miniature height. It would be worth more as a miniature but since it is fertile so it can be used to breed with our miniature. It has the desirable characteristic of multiplying rapidly.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 02, 2010, 08:30:13 AM
Out at the moment
Phalerope
Twinkle Boy (2 fls on the stem) - from Bill Dijk
Emperor's Waltz
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 02, 2010, 09:06:18 AM
Very nice, I have a lot more out to-will have to post some pics
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on September 06, 2010, 10:03:42 AM
Some nice seedlings there Graham.
Haven't done much hybridising this year--been pretty crook with a virus.
Paul R
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 06, 2010, 10:13:03 AM
Quote
been pretty crook with a virus.

I hope you are feeling much better now, Paul?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on September 06, 2010, 10:50:47 AM
 ;D
Hi
Sorry to hear you have been unwell Paul. Hope you get well soon. Hopefully my photos will give you a bit of a lift.
I don't think I have done as much hybridising either but it is due to having been away on 1 weekend and having lost about 4 days of hybridising through wet and windy conditions.
Some very good miniatures among this lot including a significant breakthrough split cup miniature.
A few of these are the product of someone with too much NTT pollen and too much time on their hands.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on September 06, 2010, 10:55:05 AM
 ;D
Hi
Some more photos.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on September 06, 2010, 10:14:03 PM
Where have I been to miss all these lovelies? Some very very nice flowers shown. I love the micromini and the white with the reflex and frilly trumpet. I'll ask the ignorant question - what's 6A-A? Apricot? The flower with the gold-rimmed trumpet is very special.
Phalarope is a beautifully full flower.
Great to see these while I'm temporarily stopped from my repotting. I can look forward to spring!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 07, 2010, 09:31:48 AM
Very nice Graham. Was going to say I didn't like any of them but only because they are not mine.
Fantastic work there
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Armin on September 07, 2010, 01:16:35 PM
Graham,

lovely mini-daffs :o
Even you wrote you are pity with the periant (and it is not your breeding target) I like your nice apricot pink trumpet!
It still shows the wild daffodil character with periants like a windmill!
Before you throw it into the bin I would give it a new home ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 09, 2010, 08:19:11 AM
Latest lot of minis to open
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: t00lie on September 09, 2010, 09:44:34 AM
You must have a neat tidy garden ,(and mind  :) ), Ross to remember the name of your Narcissus whereas i keep on moving plants around and in reality have no idea what i have ---  :-[

example  --- Unknown Narcissus currently flowering .....
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 09, 2010, 10:01:01 AM
A couple more of Glenbrook's "breeders": "Staten Island x Swagger"
[attachthumb=1]

"Jingle x Swagger"
[attachthumb=2]

And "Trena"
[attachthumb=3]

"Noss Mayo"
[attachthumb=4]

"Sighing"
[attachthumb=5]

Just a bit wet recently to get out to get more pics! Maybe on the weekend!
cheers
fermi


Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 09, 2010, 10:04:30 AM
You must have a neat tidy garden ,(and mind  :) ), Ross to remember the name of your Narcissus whereas i keep on moving plants around and in reality have no idea what i have ---  :-[

example  --- Unknown Narcissus currently flowering .....

Unnamed and unlabeled plants drive me nuts
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: vanozzi on September 09, 2010, 10:07:52 AM
Thanks Maggie and Graham.I guess I'm on the mend as I just renewed my membership :)
What a bugger Graham to have too much N. triandrus triandrus pollen !  I've had none to work with in the last 3 years and I'm rather fond of its' hybrids.This is one of my best seedlings, a 5W-P.There are still a few of its' siblings yet to flower.
Also,here is Rod Barwick's 13-93 that I use in my miniature Y-R programme, --targeting miniature divs 1,2 and 6 and one day, maybe 5.
Paul R
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: t00lie on September 09, 2010, 10:14:06 AM

Unnamed and unlabeled plants drive me nuts
[/quote]

Never !! visit our garden here then  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 09, 2010, 10:15:42 AM

Unnamed and unlabeled plants drive me nuts

Never !! visit our garden here then  ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]

LOL :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 09, 2010, 10:44:02 AM
Thanks Maggie and Graham.I guess I'm on the mend as I just renewed my membership :)


Haha! Well, that IS a good sign!!  :-*

Quote
......... to have too much N. triandrus triandrus pollen !
Well, not a problem we have around here, either.... more's the pity  :'(
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on September 09, 2010, 03:06:09 PM
Just keeping it alive is quite a challenge for me. :-[
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 09, 2010, 04:34:00 PM
Just keeping it alive is quite a challenge for me. :-[
A challenge I have failed to meet several times. I've now given up.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 09, 2010, 07:44:26 PM
"Noss Mayo"
(Attachment Link)


Fermi, is 'Noss Mayo' an Oz bred variety? Noss Mayo is a coastal village not far away from me, some pictures at:-
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGLL_en-GBGB353GB353&q=noss+mayo&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=1SmJTKf0GaSI4gbc1ZDSBA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=5&ved=0CD4QsAQwBA
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 09, 2010, 08:35:45 PM
I'd have thought 'Noss Mayo' was a "foreign" name until you mentioned your nearby village, David!
It seems the daff is as English as the name....
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Noss%20Mayo&lastpage=1&
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 09, 2010, 09:29:49 PM
Thanks Maggi, didn't think about checking on Daffseek (it's an age thing!!) ;D

"Noss" is from Old English 'noess' with a dipthong on the oe, meaning headland and the Mayo bit is Old French from the personal name 'Mathew', Matheu's estate on the headland. A chap called Matheu held the manor in the 13C.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 09, 2010, 09:53:55 PM
Thanks Maggi, didn't think about checking on Daffseek (it's an age thing!!) ;D
Well, David, I have a nose for these things you know..... ::) ::)

"Noss" is from Old English 'noess' with a dipthong on the oe, meaning headland and the Mayo bit is Old French from the personal name 'Mathew', Matheu's estate on the headland. A chap called Matheu held the manor in the 13C.

Such fun- today's old English history lesson... this forum really broadens one's mind.  :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 09, 2010, 09:58:27 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 10, 2010, 10:12:30 PM
My fridge is starting to fill up with blooms for the daff show
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: daveyp1970 on September 10, 2010, 10:30:46 PM
good luck Ross
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 11, 2010, 09:09:20 AM
Hope to see some ribbons on your exhibits Ross.
Also hope to catch up at some stage on Saturday
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 11, 2010, 09:33:58 AM
Thanks.  I don't exhibit at the alpine show but will be exhibiting in the South Island National Daffodil show in Te Anau weekend of the 26th
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 13, 2010, 07:34:39 AM
It's peak Daff season here! I took a few pics in Otto's garden on Saturday,
This is a self-sown seedling which he has named "Vivienne"
[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

A nice patch of Narcissus "Douglas Banks"
[attachthumb=3]

A Kiera Bulbs introduction, "Second Fiddle"
[attachthumb=4]

I think Otto said this is "Mitzi"
[attachthumb=5]

Unless it was this one, otherwise it's "Snipe"!
[attachthumb=6]

At the FCHS Spring Show there were a few nice mini-daffs,
[attachthumb=7]

[attachthumb=8]

As well as a range of "Standards"
[attachthumb=9]

such as this poeticus "St Agnes"
[attachthumb=10]

cheers
fermi





Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 13, 2010, 07:51:36 AM
A few from our garden this morning,
Narcissus nevadensis
[attachthumb=1]

"Camp Hill"
[attachthumb=2]

Narcissus obesus
[attachthumb=3]

"Velocity"
[attachthumb=4]

cheers
fermi


Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 13, 2010, 11:03:47 AM
Very nice Fermi.
That first one looks more like snipe, my mitzy has finished flowering here but look to have 2 fat seed pods-crossed it back to cyclamineus. I will keep my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on September 13, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
Thanks for showing these Fermi. Vivienne and Camp Hill look especially nice.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: johnw on September 13, 2010, 08:03:40 PM
Can anyone recall if the bulb of N. poeticus 'Actaea' differs from other Narcissus bulbs? We got a shipment of bulbs today and the 'Actaea' are packed in N. 'Aflame' boxes complete with 'Aflame' labels.  I see no difference in the bulb shapes.

johnw
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: t00lie on September 14, 2010, 02:42:17 AM
Narcissus hybrid
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 14, 2010, 09:24:43 AM
Narcissus "Minnow"
[attachthumb=1]

Narcissus "Bell Song"
[attachthumb=9]

Narcissus "Sighing"
[attachthumb=2]

Narcissus "Sundial"
[attachthumb=3]

[attachthumb=4]

Narcissus "Cindy Lau"
[attachthumb=8]

Narcissus "Angel's Whisper": there appear to be 2 types in this pot! A mix-up or a variation in age?
Type 1 is more "typical" of what we have as "A.W"
[attachthumb=5]

Type 2
[attachthumb=6][attachthumb=7]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 14, 2010, 09:46:22 AM
Bellsong is a vigorous wee beast.  I might have to do a major cull this summer
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 14, 2010, 09:54:49 AM
Bellsong is a vigorous wee beast.  I might have to do a major cull this summer

 Seeing Fermi's picture and reading Ross' comment leaves me in a state of confusion... am I happy that such a gorgeous little narcissus does so well, or jealous that I don't have it doing that in MY garden?  :-\
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: galahad on September 14, 2010, 10:20:49 AM
Bellsong is a vigorous wee beast.  I might have to do a major cull this summer

 Seeing Fermi's picture and reading Ross' comment leaves me in a state of confusion... am I happy that such a gorgeous little narcissus does so well, or jealous that I don't have it doing that in MY garden?  :-\

I am sure there is absolutely nothing in your garden that does the same for you and not for me.  nope absolutely nothing.  No Siree  ::)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: arillady on September 14, 2010, 11:39:21 AM
I don't usually like big double daffodils but this one - 'Wilf Carter' is particularly lovely and has a great perfume - plus it is doing well here so that is a plus too - I have a feeling it is an oldie.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gail on September 14, 2010, 12:01:19 PM
I have a feeling it is an oldie.

Dates from 1960 Pat.  See http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Wilf%20Carter&lastpage=1&
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: arillady on September 15, 2010, 01:55:55 AM
Thanks Gail - have saved the link to my favourites bar.
Uhm not as old as I thought but 50 years is kind of old now.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 16, 2010, 04:39:29 AM
Uhm not as old as I thought but 50 years is kind of old now.
Speak for yourself! :o
 ;D ;D ;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 16, 2010, 09:19:28 AM
Narcissus "Angel's Whisper": there appear to be 2 types in this pot! A mix-up or a variation in age?
Type 1 is more "typical" of what we have as "A.W"
To answer my own question, Type 2 was newly opened and developed to look the same as type 1!

This is Narcissus jacquemondii from Marcus Harvey
[attachthumb=1]

I've also posted more daffs on the Southern hemisphere Thread as has Bill D.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 19, 2010, 08:30:23 AM
Here are some of my daffs to flower in the last couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 19, 2010, 08:35:19 AM
And a few more, should have said that Tinkerbell fades much the same way as Dovewings, snipe etc.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Mini-daffs on September 22, 2010, 12:00:12 PM
 ;D
Hi
A few more photos. The miniature 6W-P is very nice.
Kind regards
Graham
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 22, 2010, 02:28:06 PM
;D
Hi
The miniature 6W-P is very nice.
Graham

Very elegant.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 23, 2010, 03:26:06 AM
Some nice stuff as always, Graham.

Here are a few from the garden this morning,
Narcissus "Pippit"
[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

"Arish Mell"
[attachthumb=3]

[attachthumb=4]

"Hawera"
[attachthumb=5]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 23, 2010, 09:43:54 AM
Graham that white pink is fantastic, I want it  ;)
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Paul T on September 25, 2010, 12:18:03 PM
Graham,

That white-pink mini is a cracker.  So many nice ones of yours (and everyone else's for that matter) in this topic.  Very frustrating that I was in Victoria for the Hort show and didn't get to see your wonderful daffs this year.  Now I have to wait a whole 'nother year to see them.  :'(

Thanks for posting, everyone.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 27, 2010, 08:55:37 AM
A few more from our garden,
the double Narcissus poeticus (you can see one at the back which appears to have reverted to a single form!)
[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

"Fairy Chimes"
[attachthumb=3]

"Puppet"
[attachthumb=4]

"Cherie"
[attachthumb=5]

[attachthumb=6]


"Indian Maid" (nothing to do with the Commonwealth Games!)
[attachthumb=7]


cheers
fermi


Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 27, 2010, 08:57:58 AM
A couple more:
"Jack Snipe"
[attachthumb=1]

"Dovekie"
[attachthumb=2]

[attachthumb=3]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on September 28, 2010, 08:34:41 PM
Really nice, Fermi. I can smell the poeticus from here. :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on September 30, 2010, 07:31:40 AM
Fermi that Cherie looks lovely
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 30, 2010, 08:30:04 AM
Really nice, Fermi. I can smell the poeticus from here. :D
Thanks, Anne,
is this one grown over there?

Fermi that Cherie looks lovely

Kees,
It's one of the taller jonquilla hybrids and has slowly built up to a nice clump. A taller, less exuberant version of "Belle Song"  ;D

Here's the first flower on "Kenellis" a bulbocodium hybrid raised by Alec Gray,
[attachthumb=1]

And "Hillview Triquill" from Marcus Harvey at Hillview Rare Plants,
[attachthumb=2]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Alessandro.marinello on October 03, 2010, 11:22:00 AM
Hello to all
I have this Narcissus in flower, could be N. serotinus?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on October 03, 2010, 08:17:27 PM
Alessandro,
Yes it is - and if you follow the latest records you can name it Narcissus miniatus.

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: arillady on October 04, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
Allessandro that is a lovely species.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on October 06, 2010, 09:04:27 PM
Fermi, yes it is - I planted a dozen last year and not one came up! I must try again.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on November 04, 2010, 02:46:33 PM
They are on their way folks!

Couple of pics taken at our AGS Local Group meeting last night-Narcissus cantabricus foliosus

This example was grown by Geoff Stewart from bulbs he got from Mike Quest. Mike, who is a regular "lurker" on our ramblings, (and one of these days I'll get him posting!!) had three pots in full flower on the sale table. Meanwhile my bulbs, also obtained from Mike, don't show a single bud yet :(

Both Mike and Geoff only brought their pots under galss when they were in full bud.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on November 04, 2010, 03:50:09 PM
Crikey! That's amazing.... as the rest of the UK turned the clocks back an hour these Guys  seems to have fast-forwarded several weeks! ;D ;D
These flowers are so wonderful.... still a shame that more folks do not grow them.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on November 04, 2010, 03:52:47 PM
That sure is early !!
Thanks for giving us hope David !  :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 04, 2010, 06:14:11 PM
Crikey! That's amazing.... as the rest of the UK turned the clocks back an hour these Guys  seems to have fast-forwarded several weeks! ;D ;D
These flowers are so wonderful.... still a shame that more folks do not grow them.
N. cantabricus foliosus is just coming into flower here too - more-or-less the same time as last year.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on November 06, 2010, 04:31:06 PM
Hello all,

Last year my friend David, sent me these pictures and I am not sure if it is natural plant or a garden hybrid. It is a little N. tazetta growig between phragmites fields... is quite similar to N. canaliculatus...
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerdk on November 10, 2010, 01:52:36 PM
Hi Rafa,
This seems to be a small tazetta - the size might be influenced by the surrounding strong growing herbs!
Nice little daffodil!

Gerd
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Rafa on November 10, 2010, 08:43:35 PM
Thank you Gerd, I will study quite better this population, I think it could be something natural.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Kees Green on November 14, 2010, 06:15:29 AM
Cant wait to see all the bulbocodium/cantabricus daffs from the Northern Hemisphere.
The cicadas are starting to sing here and when the finish I will have my first foliosus flowering, the years should go so quickly now
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on November 15, 2010, 07:21:03 PM
My first of the new season.Narcissus romiexii ssp. romieuxiivar. mesatlanticus with loads more buds to come.

John Blanchard doesn't seem to feel that this is sufficiently distinct from var. romieuxii to perpetuate it's name.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 16, 2010, 08:44:42 PM
Narcissus cantabricus subsp. cantabricus var. foliosus

This is the name used by Blanchard. The name accepted by RBG Kew is N. cantabricus subsp. cantabricus - curious since the plant seems morphologically distinct; it has a pedicel.

Edit: looking at the photo,  I wonder whether this is a hybrid since the style is yellow. According to Blanchard the style should be white.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on November 16, 2010, 09:52:44 PM
Could somebody give me a name for the two Narcissus.  Birds removed the labels last year and I would like to put a name if possible.  

Photos taken on Saturday, and are in pairs.

Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: tonyg on November 17, 2010, 10:26:01 PM
Could somebody give me a name for the two Narcissus.  Birds removed the labels last year and I would like to put a name if possible.  
Photos taken on Saturday, and are in pairs.
Art - they are narcissus ::)

but these white/cream/pale yellow winter flowering plants are fiendishly difficult to name accurately.  I would bung them into N cantabricus foliosus (agg).  Do you know if they were of wild origin or from cultiavted stock/seed?  If the latter the possibility of hybridity enters :P as gerry has alluded to re his plant in recent post.  Then there is Davids' N romieuxii romieuxii 'mesatlanticus' ... I have a N 'mesatlanticus' - bulbocodium type, late winter flowers bright yellow

yours confused as ever TG
PS you knew all this already I bet!
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 17, 2010, 10:49:58 PM
Could somebody give me a name for the two Narcissus.  Birds removed the labels last year and I would like to put a name if possible.  
Photos taken on Saturday, and are in pairs.
Art - they are narcissus ::)

but these white/cream/pale yellow winter flowering plants are fiendishly difficult to name accurately.  I would bung them into N cantabricus foliosus (agg).  Do you know if they were of wild origin or from cultiavted stock/seed?  If the latter the possibility of hybridity enters :P as gerry has alluded to re his plant in recent post.  Then there is Davids' N romieuxii romieuxii 'mesatlanticus' ... I have a N 'mesatlanticus' - bulbocodium type, late winter flowers bright yellow

yours confused as ever TG
PS you knew all this already I bet!

I am inclined to say they are virtually impossible to name accurately.
I  would put them under N. romieuxii (but not with any degree of confidence).
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on November 18, 2010, 09:55:43 AM
I agree Gerry.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: annew on November 18, 2010, 06:02:08 PM
I would go with Tony as cantabricus types, as they seem to have white styles as noted by Maggi above.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 18, 2010, 08:18:32 PM
On a closer look the second pair certainly seem to have white styles which points to N. cantabricus (or a cantabricus hybrid), though, since I can't see a pedicel in the photo, not N. cantabricus foliosus. In the first pair, the style looks yellowish on my screen so, who knows?
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on November 19, 2010, 04:31:57 PM
Narcissus 'camoro' a present from Arthur flowering for the first time for me.
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on November 19, 2010, 04:34:29 PM
Lovely, Tony.     It's called 'Camoro' though ..... :D

 Bred by Henry Taylor and called after its parentage.... CAntabricus -MOnophyllus-ROmieuxii =Camoro
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on November 19, 2010, 04:44:16 PM
Maggi

that may be so but you know that advert that says 'it does what it says on the tin' well I have its label in my hand (the one from the nursery it was purchased from) and it says Camora I had never heard of it and had copied the label but you are of course correct as always and I will modify my post
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on November 19, 2010, 05:10:54 PM
Nice work Tony - yours seem to be a week or so earlier than mine  :D
Title: Re: Narcissus 2010
Post by: art600 on November 20, 2010, 03:39:15 PM
I would go with Tony as cantabricus types, as they seem to have white styles as noted by Maggi above.

After a week, there is a marked difference in the two pots, with one only 3cm. high snd the other aprrox. 12cm.high.  Both are enjoying the same conditions in the bulb house.

Does this help to further identify?
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