Narcissus April 2008

[Paul T]

Wonderful pics everyone.  I particularly like the triandrus and rupicola pics posted by a couple of you.  Lovely to see all these in our autumn, even if it is only on a computer!! 

[fermi de Sousa]

Aren't your Narcissus viridiflorus starting to emerge, Paul?
cheers
fermi

[Paul T]

Fermi,

I have one or two bulbs that have struggled for me.  Lyn, here in Canberra, has a large pot of them in full flower that are just wonderful.  I have taken my last struggling survivors and moved them into the shadiest corner of my Crocus garden where I hope they will do well with the Crocus banaticus and Anemone blanda etc that I have there and will keep watered during summer.  I'm just hoping that they aren't weak enough that they won't do OK.  I already have the seedling 'Autumn Colour' jonquil hybrids starting to flower a few weeks earlier than usual.  A second variety has opened in the last couple of days.  So I do have SOME Narcissus.  Wish I had N. viridiflorus flowering though..... maybe they'll recover enough for next year.  Fingers crossed!!

[Gerdk]

Fermi, Paul,
I am surprised that N. viridiflorus seems to be difficult under your conditions - although I have to confess that I am not very familiar with these (the conditions).
As far as I know N. viridiflorus likes a warm and dry summer rest - I am not sure that this species need regular watering during this periode.
Paul: can you tell me a little bit more of the ' Autumn Colour ' jonquil hybrids?

Gerd

[Paul T]

Gerd,

As far as I knew, N. viridiflorus prefers summer moisture and some shade, at least that is what I had always been told.  Lyn's definitely grow and flower brilliantly in her pot in some shade, which is why I am trying to mirror her area in my planting them into the shadier area of the crocus garden.  There it will get morning sun but be shaded from the hottest part of the day by the weeping Prunus.  There will be watering, but the garden is a sand and soil mix so the drainage should be excellent.  Unless they are very sensitive to summer watering there shouldn't be a problem hopefully with excess water.  The area will just be kept a bit moist, while the rest of the garden will not be hand watered at all over summer except by rain (and I can cover it if that gets excessive).  This just gives the viridiflorus no chance of dessicating, as I thought that they needed those conditions.  Have I done the wrong thing then?

I wrote a little on these a while back and then Fermi corrected me regarding the use of "jonquil" here in Australia.  Here in Aus we use the term jonquil to pretty much refer to any multi-flowered tazettas/jonquilla types ('Soliel D'or', 'Straw', 'Erlicheer', etc) which as Fermi pointed out isn't how others elsewhere refer to them.  The 'Autumn Color' (I should use his spelling as he was American) seed was from a guy in the States who was crossing all his earliest flowering multi-flowered varieties to try to extend the colour range.  I sowed seed in around 2000 or so, and have had some of them flowering now for 2 or 3 years.  The earliest of these is consistently starting in early May the last few years, but this summer has been very strange and a lot of things are flowering out of normal season, weeks early (or even months in the case of some of the spring Prunus already flowering now in autumn).  I posted a pic of this first of the 'Autumn Color' a couple of weeks ago. I now have a second one that has just opened. 

I can find my pics from last year of the various colours (I think last year we were up to around 7 different variants, but not sure I photographed all of them) if you're interested in seeing them.  They are significantly earlier than all the normal named multi-flowered varieties that I have come across.  Usually here they are starting up from around July, whilst these early flowered seedlings are starting from early May onwards.  So far the range from these seedlings is flowers starting in early May through to flowers starting in mid July for the latest.  I intend to isolate the various ones over time and have a separate clump of each around the garden to enjoy them as they flower at their various times.

As to colours.... I have the one I've posted a pic of already which opens a creamy colour with yellow cup, then fades to white with yellow cup (head looks nice with both coloured flowers on it), paler versions of 'Soliel D'Or', flowers similar to 'Straw' (i.e spidery white with yellow cup), nice rounded white flowers with orange cup (similar to Grande Monarch' but early instead of late), a lovely round dark yellow, almost apricot toning with orange cup.  I'd have to check the pics to remember the others if I photographed them.  Many of these are growing together in pots, so I do not have them separated out as yet.  I don't think that all the seedlings have yet flowered either, so there could be more interesting ones in there.  Hopefully with better health I will have time to isolate them when they're flowering, even if it means cutting the flowers off and dividing the bulb out of the pot while still at flowering time.

Sorry if I have now told you entirely TOO much about the 'Autumn Color' jonquils.  Do I need to give you some sort of jolt to wake you up now as you've fallen asleep half way through this long and boring description?   

Let me know whether you want to see pics, and if so maybe the moderators of this forum can tell me where they are best posted?  They are in most cases not currently in flower, so not really for here in the flowering now threads?  I'm open to suggestions Maggi!!? 

[Maggi Young]

Paul, just make a thread, 'Narcissus varieties' in Bulbs General   

[Paul T]

Maggi,

There, I knew you'd be watching!! 

[Maggi Young]

It's what I signed up for, Paul!!
 By the way, great news about your job at the Botanics 


I wish you success in it and hope that your health continues to improve by leaps and bounds 

[Gerdk]

Paul,
Thank you for your detailed reply - no danger to fall asleep when talking about daffodils. Also my brain had to work flat out - translating and minding the reversed seasons down under.
So I hope, I am right when I ' translate ' early May in late autumn?
If this doesn't bore you, please give me a lesson concerning your seasons.
Are ' Autumn color ' and the other seedlings real autumn flowering daffodils?
It puzzled me a little bit because you wrote ' he was crossing all his earliest flowering multi-flowered varieties ' - do you mean early autumn oder early spring?
Too I would be glad if you'll show the different colours of the seedlings.

To N. viridiflorus:
Erich Pasche, who cultivated this species perfectly at the Botanic Garden of Wuppertal grew them plunged in black ash (acting as a heat reservoir) and with
no drop of water during the resting periode. He has mesured temperatures around 60 ° C in this medium.
So it seems that N. viridiflorus at least is able to withstand very dry conditions.
I tried to cultivate my autumn flowering daffs the same way but it doesn't work as
well. Maybe some additional artificial heat is needed under my conditions, because my greenhouse doesn't collect much sun.
Of course I am not sure whether some water in summer is of  importance or not.

Gerd

[Lesley Cox]

My N. nevadensis is the same shape as Michael's but the corolla is a softer, paler yellow, not his bright strong shade. Mine are from seed sent years ago by Peter Erskine of AGS. So it varies?

Our dog adores ripe blackberries to the extent he gobbles them right off the arching stems and comes in the house with a bleeding nose and drooling pink saliva. I have to be careful when picking for the house that I don't get fruit with dried saliva on.

[annew]

I now have 3 clones in flower of various bulbocodium x triandrus, so I took a photo to compare them. Left to right: 'Solveig's Song', bulbocodium tenuifolius x triandrus (from Kath Dryden), and obesus x triandrus. The latter is more lemon in colour than the other 2. Solveig's Song seems to be the smallest, but it was the first year of flowering from twin scales, so maybe wasn't to its full stature. The obesus crosses have quite a range of sizes in the pan, the one in the photo is an average one.

[Lesley Cox]

These are very nice Anne and will tempt even the least likely of plant breeders (me) to twiddle my paint brushes and fingertips in the spring time.

[annew]

Speaking of which, ARE there any others out there doing their own daffodil hybrids? Please tell me I'm not the only one. I know Ian the Young does and has produced some lovely things.

[Martin Baxendale]

Speaking of which, ARE there any others out there doing their own daffodil hybrids? Please tell me I'm not the only one. I know Ian the Young does and has produced some lovely things.

I've done a few crosses, mostly with N. cyclamineus and other small species, but I seem to have problems growing on the seedlings - they don't seem to want to get to flowering size and gradually dwindle from what starts as a good potfull down to a few survivors which never get anything like big enough to flower. They seem much less easy than the snowdrop seedlings, being quite prone to rotting off as tiny seedlings (even cyclamineus crosses which you'd expect to be fairly moisture tolerant).

I for one would love to hear what your routine is for seed sowing and growing on, to see if I'm doing things wrong.

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Talking of hybrids, here's Narcissus 'Pixies sister'