Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Karaba on January 29, 2021, 01:50:52 PM
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Hyacinthoides flahaultiana
or at least, this is how I received (bought) it. It is so closed to Hyacinthoides mauritanica from northern Morocco (see Yann's picture from 2020) that I now have some doubt. At the moment, pedicel is shorter than bracts and this is more a caracter from H. mauritanica. In a other point of view, H. mauritanica from southern Portugal looks very different with the leaves protrate or lying on the ground and is in flower in mars-april-may with a very corymbiform inflorescence. It's very confusing and I understand why there was so many confusion between the two !
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Hyacinthoides arisitidis
This one has so lighting blue !
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Bought as
Scilla ingridae ssp. taurica, I'm afraid that it is just a Scilla siberica. It seems however more tiny (only 1 or 2 flower by scape) and earlier than other siberica. Any comments ?
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Bought as Scilla ingridae ssp. taurica, I'm afraid that it is just a Scilla siberica. It seems however more tiny (only 1 or 2 flower by scape) and earlier than other siberica. Any comments ?
siberica very few doubt.
Scilla morisii, i grow them under sunny greenhouse location, in the wild it grows under shade among rocks.
Scilla messaniaca, from mister Vickery seeds, sow 6 years ago
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Hyacinthoides arisitidis
This one has so lighting blue !
:P
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Thanks Yann for confirming Scilla siberica, tant pis !
Scilla nana is starting to clump and is nice this year, better when not eaten by slugs...
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nice..
but 6 years for flowered ?
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Scilla armena didn’t mind freezing and is starting to bloom.
Scilla nana looks lovely.
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Scilla armena didn’t mind freezing and is starting to bloom.
This one is still missing...
Scilla morisii also start blooming here, and also Scilla albanica (thanks Yann)
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Looking at Yann's picture of Scilla messaniaca, it seems that one of the two Scilla messenica/albanica need to be re-identified or there is a tiny difference that i didn't catch !
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Indeed, the differences between the two species are very slight. Both are sometimes in the new (ugly) genus Schnarfia
(from Barina et al. Taxonomy of Scilla albanica Turrill (Asparagaceae))
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A lost-label scilla from Turkey. Any suggestions?
(https://up.picr.de/40624192vs.jpg)
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Not easy with this only picture (even with differents ones, it's not easy !) but it could be Scilla (Othocallis) ingridae
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Thank You, Yvain! I´m well aware of the difficulties concerning scilla, and I´m no specialist at all! What strikes me is that the flowers have a rather flat form, the inner side being lighter coloured than the outer. Stronger bulbs produce 1 stalk with 2 flowers and a shorter stalk with 1 from a pair of leaves. Perhaps these additional pics are helpful?
(https://up.picr.de/40634089ls.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/40634087up.jpg)
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nice..
but 6 years for flowered ?
Yes
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Thank You, Yvain! I´m well aware of the difficulties concerning scilla, and I´m no specialist at all! What strikes me is that the flowers have a rather flat form, the inner side being lighter coloured than the outer. Stronger bulbs produce 1 stalk with 2 flowers and a shorter stalk with 1 from a pair of leaves. Perhaps these additional pics are helpful?
I can't be sure but it fits Scilla ingridae. Have a look here https://www.turkiyebitkileri.com/en/photo-gallery/view-album/833.html to compare the different species of turkish Scilla.
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Yes, it may well be Scilla ingridae. I think I´ll have to wait for seeds to develop to be more sure.
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Some more Scilla :)
Scilla mesopotamica (with its long style)
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[attachimg=2]
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Scilla sardensis
Looking for how identifiy 'Chionodoxa', I found that each of the 4 turkish 'Chionodoxa' species were locally endemic and known only from the type location. Quite strange to know that while it is so easy to cultivate !
[attachimg=1]
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This one was found in a place where Scilla and Chionodoxa are naturalized. I wonder if it may be a white Scilla/Chionodoxa sardensis?
(https://up.picr.de/40669818ls.jpg)
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Scilloideae, Hyacinthaceae - so many little blue and white bulbs- often so muddling to distinguish - here are some super photos from Frankie Wulleman in West Flanders - in several batches....
From the internet: Scilla section Chionodoxa, known as glory-of-the-snow, is a small group of bulbous perennial flowering plants in the family Asparagaceae, subfamily Scilloideae. Formerly treated as the separate genus Chionodoxa, they are now included in Scilla as a section. The section is endemic to the eastern Mediterranean, specifically Crete, Cyprus and Turkey. The blue, white or pink flowers appear early in the year making them valuable garden ornamentals.
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Chionodoxa forbesii 'The Giant'
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Chionodoxa sardensis
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Chionodoxa sardensis
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Chionodoxa sardensis
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Chionodoxa sardensis
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next....
more shots of the charming Chionodoxa sardensis
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more.... I'm including these Muscari here too!
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Muscari adilii
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Muscari azureum 'alba'
[attachimg=3]
Muscari azureum
[attachimg=4]
Muscari chalcedonicum
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Muscari chalcedonicum
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and.... more muscari sneaking in!
[attachimg=1]
Muscari neglectum
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Muscari species with Narcissus assoanus subsp. magnicoronatus MV2018FW
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Scilla bifolia close
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Scilla bifolia
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Scilla bifolia, dark flowers
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more...
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Scilla bifolia subsp tauricum
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Scilla melaina close
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Scilla melaina
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Scilla mischtschenskoana
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Scilla rosenii
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last two ..... Thanks, Frankie!!
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Scilla rosenii
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Scilla silicica
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Helen Knowles of Tinnisburn Plants (https://tinnisburn.co.uk ) writes on Facebook : " I am very lucky to be the current custodian of the National Collection of Scilla (Chionodoxa) and they are at their glorious best at the moment. Sadly, due to Covid restrictions, I haven‘t been able to hold open weekends to allow visitors to see them but it’s a definite for next year!"
Helen posted these photos:
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Helen also writes that she doesn't have any for sale ...." at the moment but I’m trying to get good photos of them all this spring and when I re-pot them later in the summer I’ll sort out some for sale as some of them have bulked up really well."
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Well what a stunning collection of Scilla and Chionodoxa* Frankie! Thanks for sharing. I really think Chionodoxa are one of the most underrated garden bulbs, they can make a beautiful show in a garden. They take me back to my undergraduate days at Oxford, there were always thousands of C. sardensis in the Parks at this time of year, making a sea of blue.
Are you sure about the identity of the S. bifolia? The first one looks a bit verna like to me** and the second one like a Chionodoxa. Whatever they are, they're very nice!
* I know they have been merged but they'll always be Chionodoxa to me.
** Just took a look at my bifolia in the garden and one of them has this shape of inflorescence - oops.
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What a lovely thread. I just love these blues, thank you for posting and thank you for that peek at the National Collection.
A couple flowering here;
x Chionoscilla allenii 'Fra Angelico'
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Chionodoxa forbesii 'Aegius'
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Thank also from me, what superb blue flowers all. Scillas and Chionodoxa are so good because mice or voles don't eat them. At least not here they haven't.
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Chionodoxa sardensis.
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...and seedlings!
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Lost the label of this one but to judge by photos above it could be forbesii? Anyway it's looking glorious in the rockery at the moment.
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Scilla bifolia. I'm trying to get this one going in the garden including in grass areas.
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...and seedlings!
Funny here no seedlings at all.
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Chionodoxa luciliae 'Alba'
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Chionodoxa luciliae 'Alba'
(Attachment Link)
I love that pristine white flowers
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a couple of Chionodoxa/ Scilla. Can't get used to the new names.
This one came as a stowaway in a clump of Galanthus from a friend.
[attachimg=1]
This came from the Cruickshank Botanic Garden when I worked there. We had several species and I'm sure they crossed so I'm not sure which this is. The big white centre suggests cretica but it is a bigger flower. There were even a number of x chionoscilla in one patch. Not sure what they are called now :-\
[attachimg=2]
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This genius is great, flowers are renewed for several 2-3 weeks.
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Self sown Chionodoxas in our town place. The clumps are all slightly different. It would be meaningless to assign names to them they are obviously a hybrid swarm. The Scilla bifolia is also self sown but in our country place. It does spread but very thinly and it does not vary. Both pictures from first week of A[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]pril but not this year.
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Hyacinthoides vicentina (thx Yvain)
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Scilla leepii, escaped seeds from the greenhouse i guess by ants. many other leaves appeared around.
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I love the fourth photo of Tristan!
Gote's self-sown chionodoxas are awesome too
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This hyacinthoides was given to me as H. non-scripta ´Ruth McConell´. It´s certainly a hybrid, and I´m not sure about the spelling of the family name - there are various versions of it. Does anybody know?
(https://up.picr.de/40944952bx.jpg)
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Hyacinthoides vicentina (thx Yvain)
Northern France is definitively warmer than southern ! Mine (outside) are still not blooming.
Just 2 precisions :
- the true name is vincentina from cape Saint Vincent in Portugal. The name has been further mispelled but there was no mistake in the original description
- the statut of this taxon is still a bit controversy but it is between a variety and a subspecies : H. mauritanica subsp. vincentina or var. vincentina . I still dont know what to think about your H. mauritanica from around Tanger which is so early. Chouard (1932) still differentiate the 2 species (mauritanicus and vincentinus), Ortiz et al. (1999) stated vincentina as a subspecies and finally Grundman et al. (with Ortiz) lumped everything under H. mauritanica. Finally, Fennane et al. (2014) think that the presence of H. mauritanica in Morocco is doubtful ! I really don't know why... A thing that intrigue me : Shousboe distinguished H. italica from its new H. mauritanica, the former blooming in december (as your H. mauritanica) the latter in march. Still unclear to me, specially because I never went around Tanger, your H. mauritanica still didn't bloom and I'm not sure of my H. flahaultiana ...
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This hyacinthoides was given to me as H. non-scripta ´Ruth McConell´. It´s certainly a hybrid, and I´m not sure about the spelling of the family name - there are various versions of it. Does anybody know?
I don't think it is a hybrid Mariette. It looks like one of the aberrant forms of the English bluebell (sorry about the common name, that is what we call them here! Hyacinthoides non-scripta is correct according to Kew.). These strange forms turn up from time to time in the wild. Maybe 25 years ago ? I used to subscribe to a newsletter from a guy who was interested in these genetic mutants of native plants, I think he had quite a collection of them. Unfortunately I can't remember his name and google isn't being very helpful. I did find that Avon Bulbs list a blue and a white one;
https://www.avonbulbs.co.uk/autumn-planted-bulbs/hyacinthoides/hyacinthoides-non-scripta-var-alba-form-of-bracteate
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Roland Janssen - "bulborum" is very interested in these "odd" bluebells - he's not around the forum much these days- being a convert to Facebook, but perhaps it's worth contacting him ? bulborum@gmail.com
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Thank You, Gail and Maggi! The picture was taken when the plant just started to flower, but now the flowers are definitely bell-shaped. Together with the broad leaves and the flowers being arranged around the stalk, it´s most likely a hybrid. Incidently, I´m living close to the very few spots in Germany where Hyacinthoides non-scripta grow wild, and visit these woods every year. Occasionally it´s difficult to tell a hybrid from the true species, but most special forms collected in Britain, like ´Amy Doncaster´and ´Green Lashes´, are hybrids, though often labeled as Hyacinthoides non-scripta. My personal preference is for the true species, as pictured in this bracteate form. :)
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Just a common or garden Dutch hyacinth, but I like how it goes a bit wilder looking when it is out in the garden for a few years. The perfume is great too.
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Hyacinthoides italica (I think?).
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The grape hyacinths are still looking good in the rockery.
Muscari 'Valerie Finnis' has self-seeded generously. As you can see the seedlings are very variable, with some reverting to the typical blue colour.
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There are some nice intermediates too...
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Muscari ambrosiacum is also out.
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Self sown Chionodoxas in our town place. The clumps are all slightly different. It would be meaningless to assign names to them they are obviously a hybrid swarm. The Scilla bifolia is also self sown but in our country place. It does spread but very thinly and it does not vary. Both pictures from first week of A (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) pril but not this year.
Whenever we stay in Sweden the second half of April, I admire the swarms of selfsown scilla and chionodoxa! It may well be worth selecting one or the other for floriferousness like the one You show. In my part of Germany such places are very rare and only recently I discovered a cemetery where , among few others, Scilla syn. Chionodoxa grows and produced this lovely hybrid.
(https://up.picr.de/40828769eu.jpg)
Tristan, I think Your lost label one may be Scilla syn. Chionodoxa siehei, which used to be called forbesii, now occasionally forbesii hort. Scilla forbesii was discovered to be a different plant and rather rare.
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Tristan, I think Your lost label one may be Scilla syn. Chionodoxa siehei, which used to be called forbesii, now occasionally forbesii hort. Scilla forbesii was discovered to be a different plant and rather rare.
Thanks Mariette. The nomenclature of Chionodoxa is very confusing!
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Indeed! There are some German botanists working in the north and east of our country where scilla are often naturalised. From those experts I got some information about nomenclature, otherwise I´d be at a loss, I´m afraid.
Your Muscari ´Valerie Finnis´+ seedlings look beautiful! I must try that one again, obviously in a drier spot than where I planted it first.
Hyacinthoides ´Ruth McConell´, now with wide-spread bells, showing its hybrid origin.
(https://up.picr.de/41026455dq.jpg)
´Amy Doncaster´was given to me as a hybrid - it´s well available in GB, I think.
(https://up.picr.de/41026456ku.jpg)
Another bracteate selection from Britain is ´Green Lashes´with very odd flowers.
(https://up.picr.de/41026459wu.jpg)
Nearer.
(https://up.picr.de/41026460fo.jpg)
In this case, at least, the narrow leaves suggest tha it may be pure Hyacinthoides non-scripta.
(https://up.picr.de/41026458ug.jpg)
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Your Muscari ´Valerie Finnis´+ seedlings look beautiful! I must try that one again, obviously in a drier spot than where I planted it first.
Drop me a pm if you want some seed of these Mariette. There is always plenty!
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Over the years, I have been working on getting this patch of Scilla to get bigger and bigger. What I'm wondering is, do they produce offsets or grow from seeds? Guess these are either, Puschkinia or Mischtschenkoana.
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Same Scilla patch, picture is from 2012
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That’s a really nice field Guff, wouldn’t it do both seeding and produce offsets? Not having much experience in bulbs, just two years but with both puschkinia and mischtschenkoana, I can say that the first one flowers later ( Tulipa season) whereas Scilla Mischtschenkoana is really early (Galanthus/Crocus season). I like them both.
I’m curious if growing conditions changes the colours of Pusckinia, this sprimg I had a very pale one and one with a really dark blue stripe. They’ll be next to eachother next spring, I’ll see.
But first, autumn is coming with Prospero Autumnale.
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Akke, thanks for the info. I'm thinking these are Pusckinia then.
[attachimg=1]
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Hi Guff
Considering flower season?!It looks like Puschkinia(my ‘dark one’), do you have a picture with flower and leaf? I don’t think the flower siza is very different but leaves are much wider in Mischtschenkoana. My Misch are a lighter shade of blue, but I’ll see what happens in another place next spring.
If you’re sure it’s Puschkinia, you might like to try Mischtschenkoana as well as it flowers pleasantly early.
Good luck
Akke
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The RHS once did a trial of "Hyacinthaceae: Little blue bulbs". Of Chionodoxa, the trial report said:
"Some botanists consider that Chionodoxa cannot be separated as a genus from Scilla. However, it is useful for communication purposes to continue to use the name Chionodoxa for these eight species as they are instantly recognisable as a group; they all have flowers with an obvious perianth tube (which Scilla has not) and wide, flattened filaments forming a central cone around the ovary and style."
In other words, Chionodoxa have a small "cup" or corona in the middle of the flower, just like a dafffodil but smaller. This is clearly seen in your picture, so yes this is a Chionodoxa.
The trial report can be downloaded for free (along with various other trial reports) from: https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/trials-awards/plant-trials/growerguides (https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/trials-awards/plant-trials/growerguides)
Paul
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Dates of the pictures, they flower around the same time as Erythronium, here.
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I liked to read about the ‘little blue bulbs’, I like them.
No Erythronium yet, but there should be ‘Dens-canis’ coming spring. Timing sounds right though and it looks exactly like what I bought as Puschkinia. Once again, I think you’ll like Scilla Mischtschenkoana as well, pity I’m not allowed to send you seeds.
Akke
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I have been working on a patch of Scilla Siberica Alba also. Not sure if I took any pictures this year, will come Spring 2022. I had collected all the seeds that I could and started a new bed.
This picture is from 2012
[attachimg=1]
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Looks good. As I have pots and pans, there’s no room for patches here, just a few Siberica and S. Alba. There is a really beautiful patch of Siberica for me to enjoy nearby, your patch looks much more crowded though.
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Scilla vicentina (syn Hyacinthoides mauritanica ssp. vincentina) from a couple of weeks ago,
cheers
fermi
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What is the correct ID for these volunteers from early spring? Are they forbesii or luciliae?
(They were later moved to more appropriate location in the yard)
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The big clump after transplanting in late spring.