Crocuses in Eastern Turkey, autumn 2011

[Kees Jan]

Here I will upload a selection of Crocus pics from eastern Turkey, which I visited two times this autumn. First some pics from Nemrut Dag National Park near Malatya, a facinating place. Could anyone tell me the name of the plant with silver leaves? It may be Tanacetum densum ssp. amanum, but I'm not sure.

The local people cut branches of Quercus in this area, probably for firewood. They make nest like structures on the ground and in Quercus trees, probably to store and dry the branches.

Next are Mithridates and Herakles, who presumably is welcoming Mithridates into the afterlife (Arsemia, Nemrut Dağı Milli Parkı)

The first crocus photographed during my 2nd trip this autumn was on Kubbe Gecidi. It seems to be Crocus cancellatus (first 2 crocus pics). Initially we thought this was Cr. pallasii which is apparently reported from the Kubbe Gecidi, but it all seems cancellatus to me, possibly in its subspecies damascenus. Another Crocus found on this site was Cr. kotschyanus, presumably in its subspecies kotschyanus, although this particular specimen (last crocus picture) seems to be very similar to ssp. cappadocicus.

[art600]

On the Kubbe Gecidi we found kotschyanus ssp.cappadocius

[Kees Jan]

Thanks Arthur. That may well be correct. Here is another picture, perhaps slightly less typical of ssp. cappadocicus? I think Kubbe Gecidi must be not very far from the 'border' between ssp. kotschyanus and ssp. cappadocicus.

[Janis Ruksans]

Here I will upload a selection of Crocus pics from eastern Turkey, which I visited two times this autumn. First some pics from Nemrut Dag National Park near Malatya, a facinating place. Could anyone tell me the name of the plant with silver leaves? It may be Tanacetum densum ssp. amanum, but I'm not sure.

The local people cut branches of Quercus in this area, probably for firewood. They make nest like structures on the ground and in Quercus trees, probably to store and dry the branches.

Next are Mithridates and Herakles, who presumably is welcoming Mithridates into the afterlife (Arsemia, Nemrut Dağı Milli Parkı)

The first crocus photographed during my 2nd trip this autumn was on Kubbe Gecidi. It seems to be Crocus cancellatus (first 2 crocus pics). Initially we thought this was Cr. pallasii which is apparently reported from the Kubbe Gecidi, but it all seems cancellatus to me, possibly in its subspecies damascenus. Another Crocus found on this site was Cr. kotschyanus, presumably in its subspecies kotschyanus, although this particular specimens (last crocus picture) seems to be very similar to ssp. cappadocicus.

I was on Kubbe gec three times but allways in spring or early summer. There I found three crocus species - spring biflorus, very nice, may be even new, and two autumnals - pallasii and cancellatus. I didn't see there kotschyanus, but it isn't easy to found them without flowers. By flower it looks as cappadocicus, but for identificaton you must to check position of corm in soil. In type subspecies it is lying upright (horizontally), in cappadocicus - on side (vertically).
Janis

[Kees Jan]

Hi Janis,

We looked at 2 kotschyanus corms to check the orientation. One was on its side and the other one was normal (horizontal)! According to Flora of Turkey in ssp. kotschyanus it could be either normal or vertical if I remember correctly. I have the impression that the kotschyanus at this site was quite a bit larger than in a kotschyanus cappadocius population that I visited the next day, more like ssp. kotschyanus as I have seen further west. Perhaps the Kubbe Gecidi population is somewhat intermediate between the two subspecies?

[Janis Ruksans]

Hi Kees Jan,
All my  cappadocicus are from Ziyaretpesi gec and surroundings. There corms are distinctly lying on side. I don't know how far extend cappadocicus area. May be Kubbe gec. is place where both subsp. diverge and grow together. Type subsp. bulbs distinctly are positioned upright.  On side lies corms of subsp. hakkariensis and suworovianus (now raised in range to species level). Did you see some Crocuses closer to Nemrut-dag? Never found there any Crocus leaves on roadsides after Kubbe gec. Last time when I was there in spring there were too much snow and we turned back. Other trips were in early summer. Did you used Hotel on Waterfall? There is fantastic owner - speeking only kurdish but serving phantastic trout and hotel is very good and cheap.

On Gulek bog. you can find together C. reticulatus (yellow anthers) and hittiticus (black anthers). In direction to South there are only hittiticus, in dirrection to North - only retiuculatus. I never catched there blooming time of this early crocus and so I judge only by corms collected in leaves. So not so easy to judge about proportion. Next spring hope to visit this locality again although there are great hydroprojects realised changing and destroying habitats and populations now.

Janis

[Kees Jan]

I did not see any crocuses closer to Nemrut Dag. We stayed in a cafetaria at Arsemeia in Nemrut Dag NP because we were very late. A very large 'room' with windows on all sides, about 10 by 30m, obviously used for bus groups during the tourist season. We approached Nemrut Dag from the south. On the next day we drove north through the mountains west of Nemrut Dag (small road) to Kubbe Gecidi, but did not see any crocuses until we were about two km from Kubbe Gecidi.

[Lesley Cox]

Kees, I think you are right about the silver plant, Tanecetum densum amanum. Used to be Chrysanthemum haradjanii.

A most interesting group of companions you've chosen to view your crocuses with.

[I.S.]

   Kees I am realy enjoyed your trip and with lots of nice pictures! Which is still too far to do for me. I admired the karduchorum small flowers with long styles
   You didn't write the locations of the plants! on your web but I saw also few pictures of pallasii turcicus for surely!
   Thanks for all these wonderfull photos.....

[Kees Jan]

Yes, we also photographed pallasii turcicus Ibrahim. I'm still busy adding the plant names to my pictures so it will take a week or two before my photo gallery 'Eastern Turkey October 2011' is complete. In the mean time I will upload a selection of the highlights from both trips here!

[Kees Jan]

Thanks for the name Lesley. Companions on Nemrut Dag were particularly old if I may say so, the statues on Nemrut Dag date back to before Christ...

Here are some more Crocuses. First Crocus kotschyanus ssp. cappadocicus, photographed at Ziyaret Gecidi. The third picture is also kotschyanus, but it looks different form kotschyanus cappadocicus from Ziyaret and the colour is wrong for (kotschyanus)suworowianus. This was photographed much further north at dusk, so not a good picture, but in retrospect a very interesting population.

Also photographed further north (Bogrudelik Gecidi) are what I suppose must be Crocus pallasii ssp. pallasii (pics 4 and 5) and Crocus cancellatus, possibly in its subspecies damascenus (pictures 6 and 7). I sometimes struggle to separate those two species though when the styles are not quite typical...

[Kees Jan]

I was on Kubbe gec three times but allways in spring or early summer. There I found three crocus species - spring biflorus, very nice, may be even new, and two autumnals - pallasii and cancellatus. I didn't see there kotschyanus, but it isn't easy to found them without flowers. By flower it looks as cappadocicus, but for identificaton you must to check position of corm in soil. In type subspecies it is lying upright (horizontally), in cappadocicus - on side (vertically).
Janis

Janis, my 9th picture from Kubbe Gecidi was a particular good plant. Is it a pallasii form or cancellatus?

[Janis Ruksans]

I was on Kubbe gec three times but allways in spring or early summer. There I found three crocus species - spring biflorus, very nice, may be even new, and two autumnals - pallasii and cancellatus. I didn't see there kotschyanus, but it isn't easy to found them without flowers. By flower it looks as cappadocicus, but for identificaton you must to check position of corm in soil. In type subspecies it is lying upright (horizontally), in cappadocicus - on side (vertically).
Janis

Janis, my 9th picture from Kubbe Gecidi was a particular good plant. Is it a pallasii form or cancellatus?

It certainly looks as cancellatus.
Janis

[Kees Jan]

Here are a few others photographed during the 2nd half of September, which is a good time to go to NE Turkey for Crocus. I was quite surprised to learn they flower so early , but given the altitude of the mountains it is perhaps not so surprising after all since autumn arrives early high in the mountains, compared to low altitude Mediterranean locations for instance.

First Crocus kotschyanus ssp. suworowianus, now regarded as a species in its own right, C. suworowianus, photographed on Cam Pass. The second picture is the local endemic Cr. karduchorum, photographed south of Lake Van in a trouble area . Finally suworowianus again, this time in a different form , photographed near Zigana Pass...

[I.S.]

  Kees,
  This is a best form of C. suworowianus which I have seen before. But unfortunately this crocus doesn't like my rainy and short winther climate, while in the wild it stay in almost half of the year under snow! I have severel forms of this crocus from different locations since four years but never seen any sng of flowers