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Tony Goode (Agoode)
Recent Member
Username: Agoode
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 11:15 pm: |    |
I have germinated several lots of colchicum seed and flowered most of these ... eventually - they are slow! However I rarely get more than 20% germination and even that may be over 2 seasons. The one exception has been my own seed of Colchicum speciosum which gave very good germination. I recollect that fresh seed is sticky, perhaps it has a germination inhibitor which is washed off if the seed is sown fresh but locked in to older dry seed? |
Thomas Huber (Hubi1)
New member
Username: Hubi1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 7:36 am: | |
Hello Tony!
This sticky mass is no germination inhibitor, it makes the seed sticking on the hoofs of cows, sheeps and other animals, that take them far away from the mother-plant. The glue is activated if it gets wet.
I'm not sure, but maybe it smells sweet, so that the ants take them away too.
So long
Thomas
|
Carl Garnham (Cgarnham)
Member
Username: Cgarnham
Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 8:58 am: | |
I don't think the possibility of a dual, or even multi-function coating is out of the question but I also doubt that there has been any work done on colchicum seed coatings to determine the truth.
Does anyone growing good numbers of cochicum ever see any significant number of self-sown seedlings? With many seeds that are slow/difficult from dry seed, self-sowns are common - corydalis are an excellent example. If self-sowns are rare and Ian struggles when he has access to so much home-produced seed, then there must be something at work other than the usual requirement for low temeprature cycling or inhibitors being triggered by drying as in trilliums and hepaticas for instance.
What do people think about the possible need for a period at high temperature, say in the 30'sC? Is it a reasonable generalisation that colchicum seed would generally get baked in habitat before germination?
I have a very few seedlings but they are from '03-'04 Society seed so are far too small to be certain of identity. |
Mark Smyth (Mark__n_ireland)
Senior Member ( posting super hero)
Username: Mark__n_ireland
Post Number: 266
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 10:10 am: | |
Margaret Glynn has large numbers of Colchicums under trees but the number of flowers isnt increasing.
I'll try and remember to ask her tomorrow about seedlings just in case I'm wrong. |
Carol Shaw (Carol)
Advanced Member
Username: Carol
Post Number: 95
Registered: 2-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 1:27 pm: | |
in the Pyrenees some of the colchicums would get baked but others, which are in deep woodland, would not; both grow plentifully so perhaps fresh seed is the solution |
J.Ian Young (Iyoung)
Moderator
Username: Iyoung
Post Number: 143
Registered: 2-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 6:32 pm: | |
Wow, thanks to you all for these interesting responses to the problem with colchicum seed.
Colchicum are without any doubt the bulbous group that we have had the poorest success rate with from seed. I have sown the seed fresh, sometimes even green, sown it deep in the pot as well as the more normal surface sowing. I have stored it in the freezer for various periods none of these variations has made the least bit of difference to the poor germination. I have pots of Colchicum seed that were sown up to 10 years ago and when I examined the seed it seemed perfectly sound with no signs of rot - usually infertile seed goes soft and rots after a few years of exposure.
I do not think that the sticky coat is a chemical germination inhibitor, although it could form a barrier preventing moisture from penetrating the seed. It is a very interesting point about how well they germinate in the wild. I have often asked people who show slides of them in the wild this question but none so far have made this observation and been able to give me an answer.
A prolonged hot period for the seed could on first thoughts be a possibility, as we do not get that heat in Aberdeen, but I know others in hotter climates have the same problem.
Tony got a good germination from fresh seed so there is hope that we will crack it.
It just does not make any kind of evolutionary sense for a plant to produce seed that is so reluctant to germinate. |
Carl Garnham (Cgarnham)
Member
Username: Cgarnham
Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 9:57 am: | |
If colchicum (or any plant) had ended-up in an evolutionary cul-de-sac in that germination of seed was a rare event, that is not neccessarily, ultimately a bad or disasterous thing. It could be that colchicum have for a very long while been in a very stable ecological niche with little loss of plants over many years and, so long as plants are individually long-lived, this is not a problem. Where it would be a problem is in the face of change, both because reproduction was slow and also because genetic exchange is minimal. This has happened to cheetahs - all animals are almost genetically identical - the population is believed to have been reduced to a very few individual animals several thousand years ago. The very low genetic base is believed to be one of the major reasons that the species seems very slow or unable to adapt to changes in modern Africa.
There are also quite a few other possibilities - how about fire? Both temperature and the chemicals released are possibilities.
How are commercial stocks increased? Presumably vegetatively? Scooping and/or scoring???? Having said that, there are good numbers of hybrids and cultivars in cultivation that can only have ever originated as seedlings................ |
Anthony Darby (Adarby)
Senior Member ( posting super hero)
Username: Adarby
Post Number: 165
Registered: 6-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 12:38 pm: | |
Interesting to note that colchicine is a chemical extracted from colchicums and used to produce fertile polyploid plants from sterile hybrids. It causes spindle failure during mitosis which results in vegetative cells having a double set of chromosomes. They can then pair up during gamete formation. |
Anthony Darby (Adarby)
Senior Member ( posting super hero)
Username: Adarby
Post Number: 170
Registered: 6-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 11:44 pm: | |
Just tipped a pot of seedlings of Colchicum corsicum out. Quite a good percentage from SRGC seed. I have tried bulbs of this species in the garden, but they perished. Too wet? |
Tony Goode (Agoode)
Recent Member
Username: Agoode
Post Number: 16
Registered: 1-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 6:24 pm: | |
I too have had some success with Colchicum corsicum from seed. It seems to need a warm/hot dry rest to thrive, so garden conditions are unlikely to suit in the UK. Might not be completely hardy either. Mine do fine in a bulb bed in the greenhouse. |
Tony Goode (Agoode)
Recent Member
Username: Agoode
Post Number: 17
Registered: 1-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 8:03 pm: | |
Colchicum corsicum
First flower today, about 10 days after first watering of the bulb bed. First flowering of seed sown in 1999.
Colchicum variegatum
First flowering of plants raised from SRGC seed sown in 1997, germinated 1999. |
Carl Garnham (Cgarnham)
Member
Username: Cgarnham
Post Number: 34
Registered: 12-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 9:48 am: | |
Just noticed quite a nice crop of "grass" in a pot of c. corsicum seed that was sown January 2003 ex AGS. The pot has stood open to the elements on a bench against the north wall of my bungalow for all that time so certainly hasn't baked. The seedlings also saw somewhere around 6C of frost two days ago too, although there is always the slight question mark over identity with any amateur-collected seed until there are some flowers. |
Paul Tyerman (Tyerman)
Advanced Member
Username: Tyerman
Post Number: 181
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:09 pm: | |
Howdy All,
I just came into this thread for the first time. I know from experience that Colchicum kesselringii germinates freely from seed, be it fresh or stored dry for a few months. Can't say the same for the other Colchicum species I have tried, often no germination at all or very poor. Still, not giving up on them for a few years yet! LOL
Paul T. Australia. |
Anthony Darby (Adarby)
Senior Member ( posting super hero)
Username: Adarby
Post Number: 395
Registered: 6-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 2:05 pm: | |
I have sown Colchicum corsicum seed several times over the past few years and the seedlings stand up to all weathers in an outside open plunge. Three year old plants in the GH plunge look more like colchicums but no flowers yet. |
Lesley Isabel Cox (Lcox)
Advanced Member
Username: Lcox
Post Number: 116
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 12:55 am: | |
My experience of Colchicum seed is that it is sometimes very slow to germinate - 2 years or more, but when it starts, the RATE of germination is good. This applies to CC. kotschyi, corsicum, szovitsii, kesselringii, baytopiorum and two I have as arenarium and troodii but both seem identical to kotschyi (which I'm not sure is true anyway). 16 seeds of C. luteum purchased 3 years ago, are now all up, in 3 separate germination bursts, at 4 months from sowing, 1 yr and 3 months and 2 yrs and 4 months. Don't know what this tells me except to be patient. My C. kotschyi and the two like it, don't seem to have any sticky coating, not that I've noticed anyway. |
Gelene S (Gelene)
Member
Username: Gelene
Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 5:17 pm: | |
Is the same true of Colchicum (Merendera) filifolia? I just ordered seeds of that sp. this year; guess I'll just have to be patient. |
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